Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / Wrestling | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #29 |

Transcript

Wrestling | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #29 | · The Christian Reeve Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Christian we've
• 0:04
  podcast. I'm not sure where to look,
• 0:07
  because basically, I'll explain I'm recording with the camera,
• 0:12
  my standard camera. I'm also recording via Zoom.
• 0:16
  Just in case the camera, messes up, for whatever reason and I'm
• 0:21
  recording, you know, with my audio mixer.
• 0:23
  So in three different places at once it's a bit confusing.
• 0:27
  But yeah, we're covering all bases.
• 0:30
  Because I have actually had some technical problems lately, and
• 0:33
  it's very frustrating when it's in a cool.
• 0:36
  Because right now, I can edit this up.
• 0:38
  I can chop this up. It's just me.
• 0:39
  I can redo it, right, but if it's an interview, I can't just
• 0:44
  like redo it. You know what I mean?
• 0:45
  And I always find it a bit unprofessional to, you know,
• 0:48
  stop it. Midway or like, come up with
• 0:50
  some excuse, like, I can't do that.
• 0:52
  Like, we will see it through the show, must go on, you know,
• 0:55
  that's kind of what I believe and that's how I approach it.
• 0:58
  But anyway, Yeah, I've been a bit like I was a bit worried
• 1:03
  about this particular podcast because and I'll be, I'll be
• 1:07
  truthful. I haven't been able to find
• 1:09
  another guest. I do as of recording this right
• 1:12
  now, have one more guest. That will what an episode that
• 1:16
  will be coming out soon, but I haven't been able to come up
• 1:20
  with any new guests and it kind of made me think about the fact
• 1:23
  that you know I shouldn't have to just have guests on the show
• 1:27
  in order to kind of have the show if Makes sense, like it
• 1:32
  should be something that I'm able to continue with or without
• 1:35
  guests. And with that in mind, you know,
• 1:37
  I did kind of notice that the episodes where it was just me
• 1:40
  talking might not have been as interesting and I wondered what
• 1:44
  how can I make that better? How can I make these episodes
• 1:47
  more engaging and make it something that people do look
• 1:50
  forward to, you know, and with that in mind it kind of came to
• 1:56
  me that, you know, maybe I should actually do my research
• 1:59
  for this. And it will sound strange
• 2:01
  because, obviously, this is a Wrestling episode.
• 2:04
  So how much research do I really need to do about something?
• 2:08
  I talked about quite often, maybe not as often as I'd like
• 2:12
  to. But you know, I talk about it
• 2:13
  often. I'm always mentioning it in
• 2:16
  conversations and, you know, I've even spoken about it on the
• 2:19
  podcast to certain guests. But this time, I actually
• 2:22
  decided to sit down structure the podcast and actually have
• 2:26
  something that's kind of deliverable.
• 2:30
  Follow some sort of a structure for those who don't know when I
• 2:33
  when I do my interviews, you know, I have a sort of a
• 2:36
  structure in terms of the questions that I'm going to ask
• 2:39
  my guests and depending on the cowl that depending on how the
• 2:42
  conversation goes, that'll actually determine, you know own
• 2:47
  what order that I ask the questions or if indeed I even
• 2:51
  ask certain questions because, you know, sometimes certain
• 2:55
  questions are just answered through the course of the
• 2:57
  interview. Or, you know, maybe I That
• 3:00
  they're not as interesting or maybe not appropriate.
• 3:03
  I mean it's very rare that that's the case.
• 3:05
  But actually, I don't think that's ever happen.
• 3:08
  But, you know, there's always that concern, you know, that I
• 3:11
  remember there was one question. I had possibly about mental
• 3:14
  health or something like that and I was unsure whether to ask
• 3:18
  my guest about it because it's a sensitive issue and I want to,
• 3:21
  you know, be careful of people's feelings and respect them, you
• 3:25
  know, because there are guests on my show off the row, I want
• 3:27
  to respect them. And, but I still lost it and I
• 3:31
  think I asked it in the right way and it turned out.
• 3:33
  Okay. So yeah.
• 3:35
  But I like to have that research ready and some sort of a
• 3:38
  structure ready and something to deliver.
• 3:41
  So I hope that, you know, maybe these episodes are interesting,
• 3:45
  and that people can find some value in it.
• 3:48
  I'm trying my very, very best with this.
• 3:51
  So, bear with me. I'm just gonna have a little bit
• 3:53
  of my coffee because I'm still waking up and Mmm, it's good,
• 4:01
  it's good. But yeah, moving it Forward.
• 4:04
  Actually, speaking of everyone listening to the podcast on
• 4:08
  various platforms, just want to say a big thank you to everyone
• 4:12
  that has been listening to the podcast on these different
• 4:15
  upcoming platforms. I know that we recently arrived
• 4:19
  on overcast FM and I'll be honest, a lot of these platforms
• 4:24
  such as Pocket, Casts radio, public like I wasn't even aware
• 4:28
  of until I started podcasting. So now, I'm becoming more
• 4:31
  familiar with what's actually available and I actually saw in
• 4:35
  my stats recently that we're starting to appear on overcast
• 4:40
  FM. So shout out to everyone
• 4:42
  watching on overcast and also just shout out in general to
• 4:46
  wherever you're listening because I did a recent Twitter
• 4:49
  poll. If you don't know that I have
• 4:51
  Twitter, I have Twitter. That's where you can find.
• 4:54
  Probably all the latest updates for me.
• 4:57
  Either there or Instagram. I tend to tailor each social
• 5:02
  media platform, according according to different things.
• 5:05
  So, like, Twitter is where I talk about everything.
• 5:08
  Pretty much the quickest updates.
• 5:10
  If you want to interact with me, it's at CPK Reeve so that's C PK
• 5:17
  R, WV e and also on Instagram Christian underscore reef.
• 5:22
  And on there, it's like a mixture of Music updates about
• 5:25
  the podcast, various other things.
• 5:27
  Things, you know, latest YouTube stuff, blah, blah, blah, blah,
• 5:30
  blah, but anyway, I sent out a Twitter, poll asking, you know,
• 5:35
  where do people listen to the podcast?
• 5:36
  Because I thought it was a pretty interesting thing sort of
• 5:39
  just gauge where my audience is at.
• 5:40
  And also just in general where people like to actually listen
• 5:44
  to podcasts and I got 11 votes, I ran it for about a week.
• 5:49
  So this is pretty good going considering because a lot of a
• 5:54
  lot of my tweets, unfortunately, don't get many reactions.
• 5:57
  I mean, Been tweeting like crazy like about you know trying to
• 6:01
  get people on the show and I just I've had nothing lately.
• 6:04
  So it really is a hit-and-miss type of thing was with me and
• 6:08
  social media, but anyway, this one was successful.
• 6:10
  So we're happy with that poll results.
• 6:13
  Came in 11 votes, 27% of you listen on YouTube 27%.
• 6:20
  Also, listen, on Spotify, 9%, listen on other.
• 6:25
  So I'm kind of curious as As to where, you know, that that would
• 6:31
  be, I should have said, like our piece specifying the comments.
• 6:34
  So I think if we do future pose, it'll be good to know in the
• 6:37
  comments kind of where people actually listen and stuff, just
• 6:40
  to kind of understand and learn to summon some leather.
• 6:44
  But I can't speak today which is kind of a problem if you're
• 6:47
  doing a podcast. Anyway, 36 percent of you said
• 6:54
  that you listen to the podcast via apple pie.
• 6:57
  Costs and that corresponds pretty much with my stats.
• 7:02
  I think it's 50% of my viewership is on Spotify at the
• 7:05
  moment, but yeah, that's awesome.
• 7:08
  We recently got an apple podcasts.
• 7:11
  It was a big achievement and I was very, very proud of that.
• 7:13
  So can only really go forward? I think moving from here.
• 7:20
  I don't think it really matters as, in terms of like how the
• 7:25
  show is. I think the only difference
• 7:27
  between, you know, obviously like Spotify apple and then like
• 7:30
  YouTube is obviously on YouTube. It's a video podcast as well.
• 7:36
  Whereas on the other platforms, it's not.
• 7:37
  And I tried to think about that whenever I'm doing the podcast
• 7:42
  in terms of how I can tailor it to both audiences and I think at
• 7:45
  the moment, it's working very well, but the only thing that
• 7:48
  has helped and has shaped I would say is the fact that when
• 7:53
  we started doing the video podcast for interviews, I think
• 7:56
  that helped a lot with interacting with the guests
• 7:59
  because obviously we can actually see each other.
• 8:01
  So we can kind of react to each other's facial expressions and
• 8:06
  you know, there's that kind of thing, I think it's better.
• 8:08
  It's like it's always better to, you know, call someone versus
• 8:12
  text engine. I mean like you get, you get
• 8:14
  more of the person, you understand better.
• 8:17
  Nothing's Lost in Translation or whatever and I've enjoyed doing
• 8:21
  them video style as well. I think there has been a slight
• 8:26
  bump in the viewership as far as YouTube is concerned.
• 8:29
  But I think that the, the slight increase in viewership is more
• 8:34
  down to the fact that we have more of a structure.
• 8:36
  Now, you know, because I have been trying to figure out how to
• 8:39
  do this podcast and I am still figuring it out.
• 8:43
  But I think now we've at least got something that's kind of
• 8:47
  easy to follow and you know, helps you To just I guess
• 8:52
  they're on board with it. You know, it's not just like a
• 8:54
  rambling mess and that kind of brings me back to today's topic
• 8:58
  as well. Like with other podcast, I've
• 9:00
  done where it took a Christian only podcast, so it's just me
• 9:04
  talking. I didn't really have that
• 9:06
  structure because I thought I could approach it.
• 9:07
  Like I do with my YouTube videos with just a basic idea of what
• 9:11
  I'm going to say and then just kind of ramble on and talk but
• 9:15
  with a podcast, I don't think you can really do that.
• 9:17
  You need to know exactly what you're going to say as you're
• 9:19
  going to say it. So you can kind of move
• 9:21
  seamlessly between each section and not have these like awkward
• 9:25
  pauses or Lycoming and are in because I don't think anyone
• 9:28
  really wants to listen to that, especially if you're listening
• 9:30
  to this, like, you know, on your way home or something, or on the
• 9:34
  way to work, no one wants to listen to someone going like no,
• 9:41
  no one wants that. So anyway, the main event
• 9:45
  wrestling. Why did I choose to talk about
• 9:47
  wrestling? Well, I've never actually done.
• 9:50
  And a full-length video where I've solely talked about
• 9:54
  wrestling and like why I love it and how I got into it, I've
• 9:57
  mentioned little things, I've tried little things on YouTube
• 10:00
  because it seemed like a no-brainer to do content on
• 10:05
  wrestling. But truth, be told, I didn't get
• 10:07
  a very positive response from the community.
• 10:11
  When I did the wrestling stuff, it was actually quite negative
• 10:13
  and I didn't even say anything controversial.
• 10:15
  I think it's just the nature of resting fans in general.
• 10:19
  They're very passionate can get very aggressive unfortunately
• 10:24
  and it just puts me off making content about wrestling.
• 10:27
  So while you will have heard me talk about wrestling here and
• 10:30
  there, I don't ever kind of commit myself fully to it
• 10:33
  because I just feel like it's something that's not real.
• 10:36
  That's my neighbor leaving. See you later.
• 10:39
  I don't feel like it's something.
• 10:40
  I can fully commit to because I think I need someone to riff
• 10:45
  off, you know, like I mentioned in in the, in the First episode
• 10:51
  that we did with the professional wrestler.
• 10:52
  Matt Rivera, he obviously invited me to his podcast which
• 10:55
  I hope is still happening because that would be amazing.
• 10:58
  But like, I feel more comfortable appearing on
• 11:01
  someone's show rather than doing my own because I don't quite
• 11:04
  frankly have enough time to consume all the wrestling that
• 11:07
  there is, I have to pick and choose what I watch and your.
• 11:12
  I work a lot as well on everything that I do.
• 11:15
  So I do have limited time and there is so so much wrestling
• 11:21
  content so much. I mean, even between the two
• 11:24
  main companies in America right now you've got at least between
• 11:28
  10 to 15 hours per week, just for two companies crazy.
• 11:33
  It's probably it's probably a bit more than that, to be
• 11:36
  honest, but like, on average. But, yeah, I mean, I've always
• 11:42
  just been put off by it, you know, I did the little videos
• 11:44
  here and there, but people always want to get aggressive
• 11:47
  with opinions, and it's silly because it's like any other
• 11:50
  thing in, It's just an opinion, you know.
• 11:52
  It's not like I'm saying this is fact, I'm just saying this is
• 11:55
  what I think and that's how I must my approach to most things
• 11:58
  you know. Like when I did my review on 10
• 12:02
  it I said like genuinely what I thought you know I interest in
• 12:07
  the I did it. I did a video recently for my
• 12:08
  second Channel where I it's my first ever like sort of Click
• 12:13
  bait, e title and it's not wrong.
• 12:15
  Basically, I talked about the problem with the movie, right?
• 12:19
  Which is it sound? Um, there's a big sound problem
• 12:21
  when you go and see it. Like, you can barely hear the
• 12:24
  dialogue, which is a massive problem, especially when they're
• 12:27
  talking about really important, plot devices, or important
• 12:30
  detail. So, I'm going to need to watch
• 12:31
  that again with subtitles. But it's an excellent movie.
• 12:35
  So I recommend going sit to see it.
• 12:36
  But anyway, I did this, this video for it and I had the title
• 12:40
  ready with with that in mind, but I decided to just put it as
• 12:46
  the problem with 10 it dot, dot dot.
• 12:47
  And obviously it's got a bit more views and I think the funny
• 12:50
  Because it hasn't got any negativity because I don't
• 12:52
  actually slag off the movie. I say that it's great and I put
• 12:55
  it over. But I do talk about this audio
• 12:58
  problem which most people I think can agree with problem
• 13:01
  with wrestling is that when you put an opinion out there, even
• 13:05
  if it's the prevailing opinion that most people have you still
• 13:08
  have loads of people getting really aggressive and just
• 13:12
  shouting at you online. You know?
• 13:15
  And just and just be like, you're so wrong, you're such an
• 13:17
  idiot. Really, it's like, it's just a
• 13:19
  pinion. It's just, it's just
• 13:21
  entertainment, who cares? No one is right or wrong, this
• 13:24
  is silly and moving that forward.
• 13:27
  You know, I mean, because professional wrestlers now are
• 13:30
  very active on social media and you can interact with them.
• 13:33
  We're seeing more and more professional wrestlers having to
• 13:36
  leave platforms because they're getting basically harassed by
• 13:40
  fans and the fans being very, very horrible and it's just
• 13:45
  unwarranted. I mean they are still people.
• 13:48
  Professional wrestlers, you know, they're not superheroes.
• 13:51
  They might portray them as, as far as that kids are concerned
• 13:55
  and they're playing characters and such, but they are real
• 13:57
  people. And then they take things on
• 13:59
  board and, you know, they take things to heart and I think
• 14:03
  people, that's, that's what I mean.
• 14:04
  Like, I take it to heart when I put out a video, and it gets
• 14:06
  loads, and loads of hate because, you know, I don't go
• 14:09
  out of my way to create content that annoys people, I create
• 14:12
  content, that's genuinely my opinions.
• 14:14
  And if people disagree with me, I want to know why.
• 14:16
  And I want to debate that my I want to argue them, I want to
• 14:19
  find out why they have a different opinion.
• 14:23
  It's healthy, you know, it's a healthy debate, more coffee
• 14:26
  time, This is why I need a co-host or something.
• 14:32
  Someone to just occupy the time when I put in between coffee
• 14:36
  sips. Yeah that's kind of why I don't
• 14:41
  generally do wrestling but I wanted to do a definitive
• 14:44
  Wrestling episode where I just talk about it and then if I
• 14:47
  never talk about wrestling again fine this was the one and only
• 14:51
  time that I did it, you know and I have appeared on other
• 14:54
  people's podcast to talk about wrestling.
• 14:56
  Shoutout to join John Lannan who allowed me to go on a Episode to
• 15:00
  talk about WrestleMania 17. That was phenomenal.
• 15:04
  I loved it. It was great.
• 15:05
  Exactly. The sort of thing I want to be
• 15:07
  doing what one of the reasons I want to talk about wrestling is
• 15:10
  because I happen to know a lot about it.
• 15:13
  I've been a fan for probably somewhere between 20 to 25 years
• 15:19
  or no. Maybe that's a bit too much of
• 15:21
  it over estimation about 23 years. 22, 23 years.
• 15:24
  I got into it when I was about five years old, give or take and
• 15:30
  That was like, my first initial exposure to it.
• 15:34
  And then a couple of years later was, I would say, was when I
• 15:36
  really got into it because I think most people, when you get
• 15:39
  into wrestling, you just randomly stumble across it
• 15:42
  either because a parent has shown it to you.
• 15:45
  And you just sit there in your captivated by it or because you
• 15:48
  kind of have this situation where, like, you're flicking
• 15:52
  through the channels and you come across it and that's I
• 15:55
  think might have been my experience that my mum told me
• 15:58
  about apparently there was a time I was sitting in a play
• 16:02
  chair and it came on and there was like a, probably like WWF
• 16:06
  Raw or something with people like hitting each other with
• 16:09
  still chairs. And I was like, what is this?
• 16:11
  This is amazing. And I'm pretty sure when I was
• 16:14
  younger, I came across an episode of Raw.
• 16:18
  I'm pretty sure it was because it used to be shown on Channel 4
• 16:20
  so it could have actually been Smackdown.
• 16:22
  Actually that would have been more likely but it's really late
• 16:25
  and I was watching it when I shouldn't have been and I'm
• 16:28
  fairly certain that I Saw a man that visually looks like Stone
• 16:33
  Cold Steve Austin and I was captivated by that.
• 16:35
  I thought that was really cool and then I couldn't find it for
• 16:39
  a couple of years because I didn't know what it was.
• 16:41
  I was just a kid. We didn't have the internet as
• 16:44
  we have it today. Now, we didn't even have it in
• 16:47
  my house then and this was like what the mid 90s or something.
• 16:52
  So, you know, it was just impossible to find out what that
• 16:55
  was and I was like, oh, okay, that sucks.
• 16:58
  And then a couple years later I was about Eight or nine years
• 17:00
  old. And I had a best friend called
• 17:04
  Christopher is a really good guy.
• 17:07
  Very, very eccentric, kid had a lot of different interests and
• 17:10
  one of those interests was professional wrestling and he
• 17:14
  just showed me so many cool DVDs of wrestling and video.
• 17:20
  Like there was a video that he lent to me that I watched
• 17:23
  religiously. I think it was like top raw
• 17:26
  moments or something from like a particular Year I can't remember
• 17:31
  when but very good compilation video back when WWF used to
• 17:36
  release this is a WWE by the way for those who are unfamiliar
• 17:40
  with what I'm talking about it's not the World Wildlife Fund.
• 17:43
  It's the W World Wrestling Federation as it was known back
• 17:47
  back before before 2001, I think.
• 17:51
  But in before they changed the WWE.
• 17:53
  But yeah, they did all these compilation videos with Coliseum
• 17:58
  video and they had like lots of But that was a really big help
• 18:01
  in terms of discovering various wrestlers and angles.
• 18:04
  So I discovered like, you know, D-Generation X through that and
• 18:08
  raw, and the rock, and all these different wrestlers and stuff.
• 18:11
  But I think the biggest thing that stood out for me was there
• 18:16
  was a particular day where me and Christopher watched
• 18:21
  WrestleMania 18 and I've never watched a pay-per-view before.
• 18:26
  So I didn't really know what I was watching.
• 18:28
  I just remember his Tuesday as him, he was like, you have to
• 18:31
  watch this. This is incredible.
• 18:33
  You have to watch this. And, you know, I'm a kid.
• 18:36
  I mean, you know, I'm impressionable.
• 18:38
  But you know what? I have the same feeling that I
• 18:40
  have now. When I watch it, because on that
• 18:43
  particular, Pope pay-per-view was a match between the rock or
• 18:47
  Dwayne Johnson as he is now known versus Hulk Hogan
• 18:52
  arguably, the most famous wrestler of all time.
• 18:54
  I mean, it's up for debate, there's many other famous
• 18:57
  wrestlers. I mean Ric Flair comes to mind
• 18:59
  Stone Cold. Obviously Triple H that I mean
• 19:01
  there's a list but as far as like popular culture is
• 19:04
  concerned, it's definitely a toss-up between the Rock and
• 19:07
  Hulk Hogan. So this match was huge and I
• 19:12
  remember just being captivated by the spectacle of it, you
• 19:16
  know, it the match itself as far as wrestling as concerned was
• 19:20
  not like a spectacular technical in-ring performance, but it had
• 19:25
  everything that I love about wrestling and what I regard as
• 19:28
  good wrestling. As far as like crowd reaction is
• 19:32
  concerned and like a captivated audience and emotion and
• 19:39
  storytelling like they barely had to do much but they created
• 19:43
  this fantastic moment that will live on for Generations.
• 19:47
  I mean WrestleMania 18 was in 2002 and we're still talking
• 19:51
  about it today you know, it was an incredible incredible event.
• 19:54
  It was in Toronto Canada. Canadian fans seem to just be
• 19:58
  fantastic. I mean, I think they did the
• 20:01
  Royal Rumble either this year, or last year there, which is a
• 20:05
  major pay-per-view that WWE puts on somewhere around January.
• 20:10
  And yeah, whenever they play in Canada, more performing Canada.
• 20:14
  It's always a huge spectacle in a really really exciting
• 20:18
  experience. And it might sound weird to
• 20:21
  think about that. Like, are what difference does
• 20:24
  it make watching, you know, wrestling on a screen at home
• 20:28
  and seeing their being a crowd, versus not having the crowd.
• 20:30
  And I can tell you that in this modern era that we're in now,
• 20:34
  where there's like, no crowds, it really does affect how you
• 20:39
  watch wrestling, because the performers kind of perform off
• 20:42
  of the crowds, and they kind of play to the crowds.
• 20:46
  And, you know, the crowds are like a good barometer.
• 20:50
  Pose of, you know, how over character is or hated the
• 20:54
  character ears, or, you know, if there's an apathetic feeling to
• 20:57
  a match or a storyline or whatever, the case may be the
• 21:00
  crowd ultimately did Tate's, like what gets over and what I
• 21:03
  mean by getting over, for those who don't know is that it means
• 21:07
  what's popular what is popular with the crowds with wrestling
• 21:11
  fans in general? So when you're saying getting
• 21:14
  over you're saying, you know, is this wrestler getting over?
• 21:17
  Is he getting popular with the crowd, you know?
• 21:20
  And it's funny like how, you know, wrestling works because
• 21:26
  you can be positioned and booked because everyone knows that
• 21:29
  wrestling is is not real. Okay, staged and like I do take
• 21:33
  exception with this because I don't think it's fully fake in
• 21:36
  the sense that, you know, wrestlers get injuries all the
• 21:39
  time and I think it's closer to stunt work, really.
• 21:43
  I mean, it, they are performing their helping each other, it's a
• 21:46
  simulated fight, it's not real and that sense.
• 21:50
  There is a predetermined winner. However, the the contact of it
• 21:56
  is very real and like stuntmen. They are trained to stunt men
• 22:01
  and women because we have female wrestlers to, they're very well
• 22:06
  trained to protect themselves in the ring and to lessen the blow.
• 22:11
  So when you see them slamming each other down on the map, that
• 22:15
  is real, right? They'll do it in a way that like
• 22:20
  Lessons, the, the impact. So it won't be as painful and
• 22:24
  sometimes you might not even feel it at all.
• 22:26
  But the ring is actually essentially, wooden panels,
• 22:30
  okay, with, you know, a couple of materials over the top.
• 22:35
  That's, that's your ring, that's what you're landing on, right?
• 22:38
  So like I think anyone that slams down on that will tell you
• 22:42
  that it's painful as hell and, you know, a lot of people when
• 22:47
  they're in wrestling training and that will be the
• 22:49
  make-or-break Like thing, like how much can they with jr.
• 22:53
  And like that will ultimately decide if they become a
• 22:55
  professional wrestler or not. I think for me, like, I always
• 22:58
  wanted to be a wrestler growing up, but I think that for me, is
• 23:02
  a big factor. My pain threshold is just not
• 23:04
  high enough to withstand that, although, I think I would make a
• 23:08
  good wrestling manager, I'll still put that out there or
• 23:11
  maybe your announcer or something.
• 23:13
  To that effect. I would love to be involved in
• 23:14
  the wrestling business in some shape or form.
• 23:17
  One day, that will be fun. But anyway, Yeah.
• 23:20
  Got bringing it back to the the perceived Fitness of wrestling.
• 23:24
  It really isn't fake. I mean the fakeness of it is in
• 23:28
  the fact that it's not real versus you know like UFC is real
• 23:32
  or you know it's not real in the sense that like you know when
• 23:34
  they're striking each other you can you can tell that that's not
• 23:37
  where. I mean, even from a young age I
• 23:38
  realized that isn't real and you know I have little things where
• 23:42
  like if I was watching WWF and you know one of the guys would
• 23:45
  hit, you know, another guy with a trash can lid, you knew that
• 23:49
  it wasn't a It's kind of late because if he actually hit the
• 23:51
  other guy with a trashcan, he would have died.
• 23:55
  Like is a head injury with a legitimate still trash can lid
• 24:00
  with kill you or the very least give you a brain fracture or
• 24:04
  something. Whereas when they hit each other
• 24:06
  with these clearly, fake trash can Lids.
• 24:10
  You can tell that they're fake but then there's other things
• 24:13
  like the steel chairs which are very real and people have gotten
• 24:20
  Many concussions from receiving still had to chair shorts and
• 24:24
  stuff to the head and often when you see wrestlers, now, hit each
• 24:28
  other with things like steel chairs, or Kendo sticks as an
• 24:31
  example. The way that they do, it
• 24:35
  protects the performer. They have to be very careful
• 24:37
  about that to avoid injury but they're still going to get
• 24:39
  injury because they are attacking each other with a
• 24:42
  genuine instrument. It's real that part of it is
• 24:45
  real and that's the thing about when people say oh it's fake I
• 24:48
  can't agree with them. You know it's practiced.
• 24:53
  It's well done. You know, the better the
• 24:55
  wrestlers are the more protected.
• 24:56
  They are the less likely they are to get injured but wrestlers
• 24:59
  get injured all the time. It's inevitable and it's much
• 25:04
  more real than you think. And it's very brutal in many
• 25:09
  cases. And often many people have died
• 25:12
  in the ring. Many people have had life,
• 25:14
  threatening illnesses because of it or of your life have had
• 25:18
  injuries that have Ended their career, pretty succinctly, or it
• 25:23
  sinks, that's the wrong word pretty quickly, and it's because
• 25:27
  of these moves and how they can go wrong and it's dangerous.
• 25:32
  It's not what you think it is. It's much, it's much more
• 25:35
  dangerous than people realize. So I have always taken exception
• 25:37
  with that, but I think the wider reason that I or the bigger
• 25:40
  reason that I took exception with that and still do is that,
• 25:44
  you know, people use that as the sole reason not to watch it.
• 25:50
  And this is fine. If you don't like it, you know,
• 25:52
  you like what you like in life, but it's no different to
• 25:55
  watching. Say acting, you know, in a movie
• 25:58
  or a TV show, you don't get angry at the actor or the TV
• 26:02
  performer and say, oh, this is fake.
• 26:05
  You know, in that would be absurd and it's the same with
• 26:08
  wrestling wrestling. In my opinion is like a sports
• 26:14
  Theater, which the sound crazy. But I mean, WWE calls it Sports
• 26:19
  entertainment. I think that works, but I think
• 26:21
  theater is a better example because it's like a live-action
• 26:25
  performance with storylines, you know, which heightened a feud if
• 26:30
  it was two guys fighting each other, which often it sometimes,
• 26:33
  it just is they need to still tell some sort of a story and
• 26:38
  classically in wrestling. There's always been a kind of a
• 26:41
  story in the actual ring as opposed to, you know, maybe
• 26:45
  outside of it maybe outside of it.
• 26:48
  You know, the the if you want to call it the storyline would be
• 26:52
  that. There's a good guy and a bad
• 26:54
  guy, you know? I don't like you.
• 26:55
  I don't like you, that's the fight, right?
• 26:57
  And sometimes it's enough, you know, if the guys, you know,
• 27:01
  let's say one of the guys is particularly menacing in terms
• 27:03
  of his size and the other guy is a bit smaller than you've got a
• 27:06
  like a sort of a David and Goliath kind of battle or, you
• 27:09
  know, maybe one guy is a bit more muscley than the other guy.
• 27:12
  So it's a question of power versus speed.
• 27:14
  You know, you've got all of these classic kind of stories
• 27:17
  that you can tell in the ring. But ultimately The in-ring
• 27:20
  performance itself is a story as well and I can direct you to
• 27:25
  many many different matches. Where, you know, it's told well
• 27:28
  but I think that it's not just about like meat to then this is
• 27:32
  my personal opinion. Good, professional wrestling.
• 27:35
  In my opinion, is a mixture of the good in ring performance,
• 27:40
  Athletics and and and like the simulated fire aspect, and also
• 27:45
  you know, the characters, you know, the characters doing so.
• 27:50
  Certain moves that are in line with their character.
• 27:52
  You like, if you're a bad guy, you're looking for a way out.
• 27:55
  You're looking for the cheap Victory, right?
• 27:57
  So, if you wrestle in that manner, then it works, you know,
• 28:01
  for example, the the prevailing style right now is very
• 28:05
  athletica, land like verging on gymnastics, lots of flips, and
• 28:11
  jumps and all stuff like that, and then that's just the style,
• 28:13
  you know, I'm not, I'm not criticizing that, but I do think
• 28:16
  that if you're going to make that effective and make
• 28:18
  everything means something, Then for example, if you are a bad
• 28:22
  guy I think you should do less of that.
• 28:24
  You know? I mean because if you're a bad
• 28:26
  guy, you want to win quickly, when I mean easily and you want
• 28:28
  to like you know, get the cheap Victory.
• 28:30
  So the last thing you want to do is put yourself through anguish.
• 28:34
  You know, you or put yourself out there too much exert
• 28:38
  yourself because the idea being that you hate the fans.
• 28:41
  You know you're all full of yourself and there are certain
• 28:43
  wrestlers that do this, you know, that the only time maybe
• 28:46
  they go against that is if if they're trying to just like, you
• 28:49
  know, show Or for something which again is a Healy move,
• 28:52
  right? Where's the good guys?
• 28:55
  If psychologically they're doing it in the in the classic we call
• 28:59
  it a baby face. So I so the heels that are the
• 29:02
  bad guys and the baby faces are the good guys right now faces.
• 29:07
  The good guy will want to actually perform put on a show
• 29:10
  for the crowd. Win it, fairly not.
• 29:13
  Take any any shortcuts and then you've already established right
• 29:17
  there. A difference between the two
• 29:20
  Farmers and I think that there are many wrestling matches where
• 29:24
  that works and I think every match needs that Dynamic.
• 29:28
  Really it's not always necessarily the case but I think
• 29:32
  the best matches will have a good guy and a bad guy even if
• 29:37
  you know you're going into the match and both guys are bad
• 29:39
  guys. Or both guys are good guys.
• 29:40
  You need one or two, the match that are like one or the other
• 29:46
  because that helps the match or more a lot more and helps to
• 29:50
  create. To get behind a particular
• 29:51
  performer. There are exceptions to this
• 29:54
  Rule and there are many examples of where wrestlers have made it
• 29:57
  work. And it's just been, you know, a
• 30:00
  good match and everyone's happy with it and stuff.
• 30:02
  But I think the best wrestling is performed in that manner.
• 30:07
  Now where the storylines come into play is that they kind of
• 30:10
  add to the stories themselves and they kind of give them this.
• 30:16
  I don't know more believability, I guess.
• 30:19
  In a way like Like you know you can get more behind a guy if
• 30:22
  you've seen for the past couple of weeks on television that he's
• 30:25
  just been embarrassed by the other guy or you know, like for
• 30:29
  example, a popular one is is you know, if the one of the
• 30:32
  wrestlers has like his girlfriend you know, in the
• 30:36
  company or like, you know, on television then the other
• 30:40
  performer, the bad guy can poke fun at that in some way and make
• 30:43
  insinuations and you know make it personal basically, the more
• 30:47
  personal you make it the more waiting.
• 30:50
  Gives to the feud and the better.
• 30:52
  The match will be over all and then there are other things.
• 30:55
  Like if you're building a feud you know you want to limit the
• 30:58
  contact that they have and kind of push to the pay-per-view
• 31:02
  because that's the event you're leading to.
• 31:04
  So where the feud you want to have like little bits of you
• 31:08
  know, physicality here and there.
• 31:09
  But you kind of want to leave people savoring for more, you
• 31:13
  want to get to that final match, where, you know, every time they
• 31:16
  try and get, you know, into contact with each other, they're
• 31:19
  broken apart. Part, you know, they're kept
• 31:21
  away from each other, there's, you know, maybe the bad guy is
• 31:23
  coming up in some way or getting one over on the good guy.
• 31:26
  And, you know, basically when you get to that pay-per-view
• 31:29
  where you want to see the good guy, beat the hell out of the
• 31:31
  bag guy, that's the ideal scenario for a good Feud and
• 31:36
  that's what has worked so many times and works to this day,
• 31:40
  even though we live in an era where we everyone knows what's
• 31:43
  going on. And all wrestling fans are
• 31:45
  really smart, call him a smart marks which are mark means.
• 31:51
  Just being like, I guess that kind of like a fan that's in the
• 31:54
  know that's kind of, you know, believes in it.
• 31:59
  Maybe sometimes people use that term in a nasty way to say,
• 32:03
  like, are they? They're kind of, they believe in
• 32:06
  it too much. They take it a bit too far, but
• 32:08
  I think a lot of people just kind of see it as like a, you
• 32:11
  know. Yeah, I'm a big fan for this,
• 32:13
  you know, I'm a big supporter of this now.
• 32:15
  Smart Mark is something that's kind of originated recently and
• 32:20
  And refers more to wrestling fans, I guess such as myself
• 32:24
  where you know you have a lot of knowledge about the Business
• 32:26
  Insider knowledge. But the thing is, it's not
• 32:29
  really a special thing. Everyone has knowledge.
• 32:32
  You know, everyone knows about it.
• 32:35
  Wrestlers are openly talk about the business Executives.
• 32:39
  People that have worked as hi business owners in the field.
• 32:45
  You know, they all talk about it, so, it's nothing special.
• 32:49
  And, and this is why. And take people's opinions in
• 32:51
  the wrestling Community, very seriously.
• 32:53
  Because they're just opinions, do not.
• 32:55
  I mean, like the only people whose opinions, I really pay
• 32:58
  attention to personally our wrestlers themselves and then
• 33:02
  whoa, holy crap. I seem to be wrestling with my
• 33:07
  mic. Wow, let me see if that's still
• 33:11
  going. Is that still going?
• 33:12
  Oh wow, okay, well, sorry about that.
• 33:14
  For those, I did not expect that to happen.
• 33:20
  Right? That's embarrass me a little
• 33:22
  bit. So those listening on on
• 33:25
  Spotify, Apple podcast and whatever I accidentally, just
• 33:29
  hit the mic out of my hands and it's on like a container to keep
• 33:35
  it basically held upright. So it has closer to my to my
• 33:39
  face and also in line with a camera that's filming me right
• 33:42
  now and I've got a bit excited and threw my hands up and then
• 33:46
  boom it went flying but yeah I've lost my train.
• 33:50
  I thought now goddamn it. I've lost that that's that's
• 33:53
  annoyed me now. Wrestling wrestling.
• 33:57
  Well, I'm gonna go back to the idea of suspended, disbelief.
• 34:02
  I think this is something that has become harder and harder
• 34:09
  with wrestlers talking about it and with everyone kind of
• 34:12
  knowing what's going on. And this idea, this this concept
• 34:16
  of kayfabe is something that's been kind of eliminated in more
• 34:20
  recent times. It was something that, you know,
• 34:23
  people in the business. Always knew that it was as many
• 34:27
  insiders say, a work meaning, you know, it's not real, it's
• 34:31
  staged and shoot. By the way, means the opposite
• 34:35
  of that. So shoot means it's Real and you
• 34:38
  often hear them talk about a thing called a shoot promo where
• 34:42
  they actually talk candidly like honestly from the heart.
• 34:48
  They're actually being honest and it's real but the only times
• 34:53
  that these promos really tend to work is to draw people win
• 34:57
  because everyone knows that it's a work and that it's not real.
• 35:00
  So in order to get people's interest, you want to do
• 35:03
  something called a shoot work, pro more work to shoot No, I
• 35:07
  probably got the terminology wrong there but the idea is that
• 35:10
  you present a promo to the wrestling fans and you give them
• 35:15
  two thirds of of basically truth.
• 35:18
  Like you know a lot of knowledge that they know to be the truth
• 35:21
  and then you say you start going into the Lipo, you start going
• 35:24
  into the not lie. Let's use a different word
• 35:28
  fiction and then that leaves the crowd guessing because they
• 35:31
  don't know what the situation is there.
• 35:32
  Like, oh, is that real? Because I know that the other
• 35:34
  stuff was real and in truth, So does that mean that's real?
• 35:38
  And then that draws in the Intrigue.
• 35:40
  So that's where a work shoot, where you're using real life
• 35:44
  knowledge and information can work in modern wrestling.
• 35:49
  But I would say it's a lot harder for wrestlers to kind of
• 35:52
  get over in today's age. Because, you know, it back in
• 35:56
  the 90s, you know, famous wrestling Stables.
• 35:59
  Like the NWO, made it cool to be a bad guy and because everyone
• 36:03
  kind of knew the situation and what's up with wrestling and the
• 36:06
  fact that it's It's, you know, it's staged and it's, it's not
• 36:09
  real, so to speak. They couldn't really get behind
• 36:12
  the good guys, anymore. You know, the classic idea of
• 36:14
  the Babyface classic Hulk Hogan, good guy.
• 36:18
  No one like that. They like the bad guy.
• 36:20
  The B bad guy seemed cool, because they just didn't care
• 36:23
  and that worked with the counterculture of the 90s.
• 36:26
  Now, obviously times of moved forward times of moved on, but
• 36:30
  bad, guys are still cool. And the weird thing that
• 36:33
  happens. Now is often is the case is that
• 36:36
  a Will be a bad guy and he'll do it really, really well.
• 36:40
  And the crowd will really get behind him as a bad guy.
• 36:42
  And then he'll have to basically turn into a baby face because,
• 36:47
  you know, if the crowd reaction is that good?
• 36:50
  You have to kind of roll with the, with the crowd and this is
• 36:52
  what I was saying in the beginning, about how the crowd
• 36:55
  dictates anything they dictate, who is a star, and who is not
• 36:59
  star, who they are apathetic towards and who they are not.
• 37:03
  So listening to your crowd, is an excellent way of being
• 37:06
  successful. People within the professional
• 37:08
  wrestling industry because if you're doing that you're
• 37:10
  ultimately giving them what they want.
• 37:11
  That's not always to say that that's necessarily the right
• 37:15
  thing to do 24/7. I think that you know, wrestling
• 37:19
  Company still need to go with their own creative ideas.
• 37:21
  And put out what they believe is their Vision because you know,
• 37:24
  you can't always give the crowd what they're expecting.
• 37:27
  You need to throw things out there that are left feel things.
• 37:29
  They never would have expected because you never know what's
• 37:32
  going to work. A classic example of this is
• 37:35
  sometimes when you put to rest, This together to form a tag team
• 37:39
  that no one would expect to tack together.
• 37:42
  A lot of the time it comes in this situation of like
• 37:45
  everyone's like, what is this? What how can we get behind these
• 37:48
  two guys, this is awful. This is Dreadful like a screw
• 37:51
  this and then inevitably a couple of weeks later maybe a
• 37:55
  month later, everyone loves the team because they have this
• 37:57
  chemistry, that no one saw coming, right?
• 38:00
  And this is kind of what I mean, about presenting something that
• 38:03
  is unexpected, that no one really saw coming.
• 38:07
  Going. Now, bringing that back to the
• 38:09
  idea of suspending. Disbelief, at the end of the
• 38:13
  day, Everyone knows what's going on.
• 38:17
  Like I said, everyone knows the fix is in everyone knows that
• 38:20
  it's not genuine, what they're seeing but you have to approach
• 38:23
  it. Like everything else in life,
• 38:25
  you know, where creative is concerned.
• 38:27
  So music, no more talk about Music Theater, You Know, Drama
• 38:33
  acting. It's in that bracket.
• 38:35
  I would say the, the wrestling part of it is important but I
• 38:40
  think it's closer to the Arts and drama and theater than it is
• 38:44
  to actually, Sports. I mean obviously wrestling, you
• 38:47
  know, professional wrestling comes from amateur wrestling and
• 38:50
  a mixture of other different styles.
• 38:51
  You know, martial arts and all sorts of things so the and
• 38:56
  gymnastics to, but, you know, it's not like, completely really
• 39:00
  about that. Like, for me, a good wrestling
• 39:03
  match. Has elements of everything.
• 39:05
  It makes you emotional, it makes you intrigued to see which guy
• 39:10
  is or girl is going to win, it kind of leaves you guessing, you
• 39:14
  know, Sometimes you can kind of predict how a match is going to
• 39:17
  go. Sometimes you can't, it's the
• 39:19
  unpredictability. It's the, you know, you
• 39:22
  especially if you've been a fan for a long time, you kind of go
• 39:26
  into it thinking, like I know what's going to happen.
• 39:28
  I know how they're going to do this, and then they do something
• 39:31
  you don't expect, or maybe it's terrible and you hate it or
• 39:37
  maybe it's the best match ever. Sometimes.
• 39:39
  My favorite matches are the ones where you're sitting there
• 39:41
  watching and you honestly don't expect it to be much and it Out
• 39:45
  to be the best match. That is always my favorite
• 39:48
  thing. Especially when it's a match
• 39:49
  that's like not even on the main card.
• 39:52
  Like WWE is guilty of this. They have this thing called they
• 39:55
  call it the kickoff, but we call it the pre-show.
• 39:58
  It's basically like a couple of matches just before the actual
• 40:02
  show on a pay-per-view is about to occur.
• 40:04
  And a lot of the time, they just throw random matches on there
• 40:07
  like a random title Feud or just a random match where, you know,
• 40:12
  maybe there's an ongoing feud between the two people, maybe
• 40:14
  not. Not maybe they've just thrown a
• 40:15
  match together, but it's been a couple of times when that
• 40:18
  they've done that and that has actually been a show stealer and
• 40:22
  that's not what they want. They want the show stealer
• 40:24
  really to be the main event sometimes you'll be a match.
• 40:27
  That's a middle of the card. Sometimes it be a match that's
• 40:30
  at the beginning of the card. You can never really tell what's
• 40:33
  going to happen and it's funny how these things work.
• 40:39
  For example, go back to that WrestleMania 18 that I spoke
• 40:43
  about earlier. Okay, no more coffee.
• 40:47
  Now I finish the coffee. The Rock versus Hulk.
• 40:51
  Hogan was not the main event. It was either the match before
• 40:56
  the main event or two matches. I believe it was the match
• 40:58
  before it was kind of sold and marketed as the main event but
• 41:03
  it wasn't the main event, the main event traditionally at
• 41:05
  least with WWE has always been the World Heavyweight match, the
• 41:09
  world world championship match so that particular year it was
• 41:12
  Triple H versus Chris Jericho and that's not to say that that
• 41:18
  isn't remembered. Triple H had a very good year in
• 41:20
  2002 but the match that is remembered for Generations.
• 41:24
  Nations and generations from that pay-per-view is The Rock
• 41:26
  versus Hogan because of the crab response.
• 41:30
  Everything, those guys did in the ring, the story they told, I
• 41:33
  mean, going back to what I was saying before about the good
• 41:35
  guy. Bad guy, dynamic in that Feud
• 41:38
  Hulk, Hogan was the bad guy and The Rock was the good guy, but
• 41:44
  the crowd was so unbelievably behind Hulk Hogan that The Rock
• 41:48
  had to play a bad guy and he's fine with that Dwayne, The Rock
• 41:51
  Johnson has always been a very good actor.
• 41:54
  And he's always in the sphere of professional wrestling.
• 41:57
  There's always kind of been able to fit easily between those
• 42:00
  roles and many professional wrestlers successful
• 42:03
  professional wrestlers are able able to do that.
• 42:05
  Like modern examples include like Chris Jericho Cody Rhodes
• 42:10
  is a very good example of that the young barks and obviously
• 42:13
  them talking more about aw wrestlers right now but those
• 42:16
  guys are able to do good or bad very easily but they're able to
• 42:20
  switch it in a match as well, which is very difficult to do
• 42:23
  because your ass She going into the match with an idea of how
• 42:27
  you're going to wrestle and in the crowd is so massively behind
• 42:32
  the other guy that you have to do a switch and turn it around a
• 42:35
  Classics which actually, which they call a double turn, turn in
• 42:39
  the industry would be Stone Cold.
• 42:41
  Steve Austin versus Bret Hart I believe at WrestleMania 13 where
• 42:46
  Stone Cold. Steve Austin went into the
• 42:48
  pay-per-view as bad guy and Bret Hart went into it as a good guy
• 42:51
  and by the end of the match, Steve, Austin was the good guy.
• 42:55
  Bret Hart was the bad guy because you know, Austin went
• 42:58
  the distance lost but never gave up.
• 43:01
  And that sort of won him over with a crowd where, as you know,
• 43:05
  Bret Hart was a bad guy, wouldn't let the hold go that he
• 43:09
  had the guy in you know, cussed the fans out and with you know
• 43:13
  within the course of one night turned himself into the bad guy
• 43:16
  and ran with it. And that's the same thing that
• 43:20
  happened in The Rock versus Hulk Hogan and it was a spectacle and
• 43:25
  it's that it's the match that's remembered and that's what
• 43:28
  happens. When you have a show still on.
• 43:30
  You have a good thing ring performance that speaks to the
• 43:33
  crowd that plays off the crowd. I mean the crowd is a very
• 43:37
  important element and we're beginning to see the crowd come
• 43:40
  back, more and more with aw pay-per-views.
• 43:44
  But unfortunately not with with WWE right now and Promotions as
• 43:49
  well in the industry. It seems to be only.
• 43:51
  Aw that's actually doing it and they're doing a limited
• 43:57
  capacity. I think it's like 30% of their
• 44:00
  overall capacity for the venue that they use and going back to
• 44:05
  WWE. They're using this thing called
• 44:08
  the Thunderdome right now, which is basically a bunch of LED
• 44:12
  screens which have wrestling fans on them.
• 44:17
  But Like they're, they're not like it's not like actually
• 44:21
  having fans there. It's different, it works.
• 44:23
  It's them trying and I'm not trying to shit on the idea.
• 44:26
  Okay, I think it's very, I think, I think it's reasonable
• 44:31
  that. They, they've gone through this.
• 44:32
  I think it's a good thing to try out and I kind of knew that this
• 44:36
  would happen years ago. I just had a feeling that one
• 44:38
  day, this would be trialed, I didn't think it would be because
• 44:41
  of a pandemic though, I just kind of thought that it would
• 44:44
  happen because of just technology and changing demands
• 44:47
  and stuff. I think this whole experience
• 44:50
  has kind of taught us that nothing beats, you know, being
• 44:53
  there in person, you know, I've seen professional wrestling in
• 44:56
  person as well, and nothing can beat that like watching at home.
• 45:00
  Never Compares. But watching a home is still
• 45:02
  captivating and it's especially captivating when you see the
• 45:08
  wrestlers reacting to the crowd and vice versa.
• 45:11
  And you can see, you know what we call the pop in the industry,
• 45:15
  when for instance are wrestler return Turns or we haven't seen
• 45:20
  him in a long time or if a wrestler, you know, comes out to
• 45:23
  a big Ovation because they've turned up a new company, you
• 45:27
  know, something like that. It's really awesome to see the
• 45:29
  crowd responds to that. But in in this era of no fans,
• 45:34
  we haven't seen that and it's presented a very different
• 45:38
  product. But the wrestlers have done, a
• 45:41
  very good job of still, presenting a product that's
• 45:44
  entertaining and that kind of proves that you don't
• 45:47
  necessarily have to have Crowds to have good wrestling but it
• 45:52
  helps. So that's kind of just talking
• 45:56
  about the death of kayfabe and you know just crowds and
• 45:59
  everything like that and how it's changed over the years but
• 46:02
  just going back to the suspending disbelief thing and a
• 46:04
  couple of things I want to say on this is that I think that
• 46:08
  good wrestling is logical and we'll still kind of put forward
• 46:15
  moves and a wrestling style that It is logical and makes sense,
• 46:20
  you know, like one thing I see a lot in wrestling now which kind
• 46:23
  of annoys me is this thing of guys standing outside of the
• 46:26
  Ring waiting to you know, receive a guy that's going to
• 46:30
  slam onto them right? And the that they have to do
• 46:34
  that to catch them. Okay.
• 46:35
  I know that it's a safety thing. I know why they have to do it,
• 46:38
  but it just looks so obvious and it stops me from being able to
• 46:43
  suspend my disbelief. Now, don't get me wrong, there's
• 46:45
  a lot of things in wrestling that it is The Logical.
• 46:47
  Anyway, And always have been like there's this move called
• 46:50
  the Irish whip where you grab an opponent's arm and basically put
• 46:54
  one hand behind their back and push them in the direction of
• 46:57
  the Rope so that they run at the ropes.
• 46:59
  Now, anyone who does that in real life, if you would do that
• 47:03
  the person isn't instantly going to run, they're going to
• 47:06
  probably fall over because you're pushing them forward and
• 47:09
  like yanking their arm. So poppy just going to trip and
• 47:11
  fall over and I'm not going to start running forward, right?
• 47:14
  So the Irish whip is is a logical in that sense.
• 47:18
  But, you know, this happens here and there, there are little
• 47:21
  things we're all. Why, why wouldn't the guy defend
• 47:23
  himself there? Why wouldn't he do this?
• 47:25
  And that's where it's difficult to suspend your disbelief of
• 47:28
  wrestling. And I think one of the reasons
• 47:30
  why many non wrestling fans don't like it and don't get it.
• 47:34
  But there are many wrestlers and wrestling matches that are put
• 47:37
  on that. Don't have these things or have
• 47:39
  very little of these things and you are able to suspend your
• 47:42
  disbelief and really enjoy it. But like I said, there are these
• 47:45
  examples that happen here and there that I think little things
• 47:49
  could be done to tweak it a little bit.
• 47:51
  So for example, that one I gave of a guy standing outside the
• 47:54
  ring waiting to receive the other guy, he could do a thing
• 47:57
  where look, you know that you can see the guy out of the
• 48:01
  corner of your eye, right? You can see them running towards
• 48:03
  you. So, you could do a thing where
• 48:04
  you're acting kind of groggy and you're like, you're like, oh oh!
• 48:07
  And then the last minute you catch the guy because you maybe
• 48:10
  want to try and slam him or something.
• 48:11
  Or, you know, you're literally just defending yourself
• 48:14
  something like that, that makes it much more.
• 48:18
  You know easier to believe then standing there looking up and
• 48:22
  going yet. Got you you know but that being
• 48:26
  said I'm not a professional wrestler.
• 48:28
  And I understand how important it is in situations like that to
• 48:32
  catch your opponent and stuff because at the end of the day if
• 48:34
  you don't they could like break their neck or something and they
• 48:37
  could be very serious. So Playing devil's advocate
• 48:39
  there. I am obviously trying to be fair
• 48:42
  and realize that, you know, as a professional wrestler, you have
• 48:45
  a responsibility to your To protect them, you have to
• 48:49
  protect each other. And that's the thing that people
• 48:50
  don't often, talk about with wrestling, particularly non
• 48:54
  wrestling fans. They don't get that.
• 48:55
  You know, wrestling is performance and the guys on
• 48:59
  actually, you know, feuding, they don't actually hate each
• 49:02
  other. It's just a performance.
• 49:06
  So they need to protect themselves and they need to be
• 49:09
  careful. And that's part of the reasons
• 49:11
  why a lot of it, you know, maybe is not as is maybe why some of
• 49:19
  it is a bit Faker. Let's say than other stuff and I
• 49:23
  understand that as a wrestling fan of, you know, like I said,
• 49:25
  more than 20 years. I get it.
• 49:27
  I understand why it's like that. But anyway, these are yeah, I
• 49:33
  will often quite a tangent there.
• 49:34
  But I covered a lot of things there that about wrestling but I
• 49:40
  can see these questions I've got here that are very basic.
• 49:41
  I just want to finish off what, how I got into it.
• 49:44
  So like I told you before that match with Hulk Hogan Versus the
• 49:49
  Rock WrestleMania, 18 was probably my calling moment.
• 49:53
  I think I was like right there, this is amazing.
• 49:56
  I love this. And after that you know it was
• 49:57
  all the standard stuff. I was a kid so I bought
• 50:00
  wrestling action figures. I remember there was this store
• 50:04
  that I used to go to all the time and it was a real treat for
• 50:07
  me to get wrestling figures. Like it was, it was so exciting.
• 50:11
  It was like Christmas every time I would get wrestling for kids
• 50:14
  and it's a really weird store. I was on a High Street and it
• 50:17
  was a weird Clothing store for like old people.
• 50:20
  That sometimes me and my mum will go to.
• 50:24
  I don't know why we would go there other than to get the
• 50:26
  resident toys because it was a sort of thing you walk in.
• 50:28
  It's like old people clothing. And my mum was young, she was
• 50:31
  like in her 20s. So I was like, well why are we
• 50:33
  going here? And then the back of the room
• 50:37
  was like, sports equipment, randomly, they sold random,
• 50:40
  sports equipment, like footballs and stuff.
• 50:43
  And then when you went upstairs, that's where all the toys were
• 50:46
  and all of these household goods.
• 50:48
  And stuff. So I would go crazy and look at
• 50:51
  all the Lego and the wrestling figures, but wrestling figures,
• 50:55
  whereas, and I was big into that.
• 50:56
  And from there on obviously 2003 was a very big year in wrestling
• 51:03
  and all. Well, every year is big, but I
• 51:06
  think as far as pay-per-views are concerned, it was a very
• 51:09
  good year for pay-per-views. I bought a lot of the WWI was a
• 51:13
  big fan of WWE which is World Wrestling Entertainment which I
• 51:17
  told you before. And that used to be the World
• 51:19
  Wrestling Federation. So I grew up on WWE as I think
• 51:23
  most kids do, I was a little bit into WCW which is world
• 51:28
  championship wrestling, which was their competition for many
• 51:31
  years, who closed in 2001, because they basically bought
• 51:34
  their competition WWE. But I was more into WWE.
• 51:39
  I always preferred that and style.
• 51:41
  I just, I don't know. It spoke to me and for the next
• 51:45
  couple of years, I yeah, I bought a lot of the He's 2003
• 51:49
  2004 and the games I would say were a big part of why I was
• 51:54
  interested in wrestling. So we're talking WWE.
• 51:58
  Just bring it. No, I think the first wrestling
• 52:00
  game actually that I got was WWE.
• 52:01
  Smackdown for PlayStation 1, I always adored the games.
• 52:05
  I've always thought the games were very good.
• 52:08
  I'm not so much into the new ones, the 2K ones, I can't
• 52:10
  really get behind that personally, but I was really
• 52:14
  into all the SmackDown vs. Raw series Road to WrestleMania.
• 52:18
  Nia WWE Raw Day of Reckoning but everything they produce was
• 52:25
  PlayStation 1, a PlayStation 2, I thought was excellent.
• 52:28
  I think my favorite wrestling game probably is Here Comes the
• 52:32
  Pain. We Smackdown Here Comes the Pain
• 52:35
  or WWE, shut your mouth, both of those were excellent and I
• 52:37
  played those a lot when I was a kid, but as it pertains to
• 52:41
  wrestling, and why it, why I enjoy it so much?
• 52:43
  It was one of the reasons that I kept, you know, watching
• 52:47
  wrestling. And consuming it because I was
• 52:50
  so into the games and the games were really good at kind of
• 52:55
  given you, a snapshot of every year in terms of like, who was
• 52:59
  on the roster, who are the biggest players, they would do,
• 53:02
  storylines, that sometimes will be exactly what happened on
• 53:05
  television or sometimes something that might likely
• 53:08
  happen. But they were good way of kind
• 53:12
  of expanding that Universe, you know, making it more.
• 53:16
  I suppose kid friendly as well. Appealing to Children and just
• 53:20
  expanding the law of it all I guess.
• 53:24
  But then you know I kind of as I got older you know teenager
• 53:28
  discovered girls discover all these different things.
• 53:31
  Getting into my education. I just didn't have time for
• 53:34
  wrestling anymore and I kind of just fell out of touch with it
• 53:37
  for a couple of years towards the end of my teens and into my
• 53:40
  20s. And so I didn't really know what
• 53:42
  was going on and then fast forward to about 2016 ish.
• 53:47
  So I was in In the second year of University and I got back
• 53:51
  into it, got back into wrestling met.
• 53:53
  A couple of people at University that were big fans are
• 53:56
  wrestling. And I thought, okay, well maybe
• 53:59
  I'll give this a shot then maybe I'll see what's going on.
• 54:02
  And it took me a while to get back into it to you know
• 54:07
  understand what I'd missed and everything and likes the
• 54:10
  wrestlers. Yeah there were still a lot of
• 54:12
  guys that I remember around and people that what was interesting
• 54:16
  was they were just starting out. Out or we very young when I was
• 54:21
  when I just finished sort of being involved with it and then
• 54:24
  when I came back into it now Their Stars.
• 54:26
  So that was really cool and interesting to see and see how
• 54:28
  they progress that someone like CM Punk was different.
• 54:32
  And that way now he's a top guy as opposed to like a guy that's
• 54:35
  coming up, you know. So it was it was interesting to
• 54:37
  see but yeah, I got hooked again and wrestling changed for me
• 54:45
  from that point onwards. Now, I have a newfound
• 54:47
  appreciation. For it.
• 54:48
  I would say from that point onwards, I became a lot more
• 54:51
  knowledgeable about the business of the business and I paid a lot
• 54:55
  of attention to all the shoot interviews.
• 54:57
  I consume all the podcasts that are out there like eighty three
• 55:02
  weeks with Eric Bischoff and something to wrestle with
• 55:06
  comrade Thomson. Your, these are inside a guys
• 55:08
  who were on-screen talent, but they were also big behind the
• 55:11
  scenes guys, and that was very interesting for me, particularly
• 55:16
  being a business student and A marketing student.
• 55:19
  You know it's very interesting for me to understand how the
• 55:21
  wrestling business actually works on that level.
• 55:24
  So I was interested and and still interested from that
• 55:27
  perspective and it's one of the wrestling one of the wrestling.
• 55:31
  One of the reasons why I'm interested in wrestling even
• 55:34
  more. So when why I would like to work
• 55:36
  in it's not just the creative element and being on screen and
• 55:39
  or being involved in some creative capacity because that's
• 55:43
  what I'm into. It's also to do with the actual
• 55:48
  business itself. I find it very intriguing in
• 55:51
  terms of how it works and how it's changed over the years, you
• 55:54
  know, used to be that it was purely based on ticket sales and
• 55:57
  merchandise and merchandise and ticket sales are still
• 56:01
  important. I'd say, merchandise is still
• 56:03
  huge Factor. But now it's also about
• 56:06
  streaming and, you know, things like the WWE Network, or the
• 56:10
  fight app, or all of these things like paid subscription
• 56:13
  apps. We can watch rest.
• 56:15
  In content on demand, you know, the way wrestling is consumed
• 56:19
  has changed. The industry has changed and
• 56:23
  what people like has changed. But I think the biggest thing
• 56:26
  that has changed above all else, is the amount of wrestling.
• 56:31
  Oh my God, there is so much wrestling.
• 56:35
  Here's just a couple of companies in America just a
• 56:38
  couple. Okay, you've got WWE World
• 56:42
  Wrestling Entertainment, all elite wrestling.
• 56:45
  Which is the new major wrestling organization in America.
• 56:49
  Arguably the second biggest in the world, but it's Up For
• 56:52
  Debate. You've got Impact Wrestling
• 56:55
  formally TNA Wrestling or Total Nonstop Action wrestling.
• 56:59
  Mlw wrestling, which I believe stands for Major League
• 57:03
  wrestling. You've also got Ring of Honor
• 57:06
  wrestling, New Japan Pro Wrestling from Japan.
• 57:10
  All Japan Pro Wrestling and then a bunch of others.
• 57:16
  But the two major ones that I follow our WWE and aw but in
• 57:20
  particular I subscribe to aw because WWE for me is not as
• 57:29
  enjoyable as it used to be. For me every year I suppose.
• 57:33
  I'm a bit of a casual WWE Fan, so I always watch the
• 57:37
  pay-per-views every time so I keep in the loop, you know, I
• 57:41
  keep up to date roughly with what's going.
• 57:44
  Going on with the storylines every week, but there's just too
• 57:49
  much there is too much content. I mean, WWE Raw on a Monday is
• 57:53
  three hours long and you could cut that show down to an hour
• 57:58
  and a half and it would be just as good.
• 58:01
  You don't need three hours. It's just too much and I think
• 58:06
  like aw has it, right? You know, their weekly show.
• 58:10
  Aw Dynamite which happens at a Wednesday is around about an
• 58:14
  hour and a Give or take and it's a lot more digestible.
• 58:18
  And W has programming that is is like that to WWE Smackdown.
• 58:23
  For example, has only 2 hours long.
• 58:24
  That's much more reasonable for a weekly television show but
• 58:30
  then they also have NXT which is two hours and then they've got
• 58:34
  main event which is believed for an hour and then they've also
• 58:38
  got what's the cruiserweight one?
• 58:41
  I'm going to get murdered for this in the comments now.
• 58:45
  It's the Cruiserweight division goddamnit, 2005 Live.
• 58:49
  That's the one. Yeah, I mean that's just a
• 58:51
  couple of shows. They've got like WWE has like a
• 58:54
  monopoly as far as wrestling is concerned in the industry.
• 58:57
  They they are everywhere around the world.
• 58:59
  They have fans all around the planet.
• 59:02
  They are the biggest known. You know, when you mention
• 59:04
  wrestling, pretty much. Everyone.
• 59:07
  Non wrestling fans. Concern knows who WWE is, if you
• 59:10
  say aw. Yeah, not many people know
• 59:12
  necessarily wrestling. As well.
• 59:14
  No, but non wrestling fans. Maybe not, you know, they're
• 59:17
  only still emerge. I mean recently, they just
• 59:20
  manage to get their wrestling merchandise in the stores in
• 59:24
  American stores, like Walmart. So they are emerging.
• 59:27
  They are coming and I think in the coming years they're going
• 59:30
  to become a bigger and bigger. You know entity I would wager
• 59:36
  that we are entering a second phase because arrest the
• 59:39
  wrestling industry is cyclical. It has ups and downs and I think
• 59:43
  that given that We've got this major company that's emerged.
• 59:46
  It will be a little bit like it was in the late 90s with WWE and
• 59:50
  WCW. I think there's going to be more
• 59:53
  of a battle now though because it's International much more
• 59:57
  International. So it's much more, there are
• 1:00:01
  many more countries that are the product is consumed in and it's
• 1:00:04
  much more accessible than it, than it was before, you know.
• 1:00:07
  So now people aren't relying on. If maybe they can see wrestling
• 1:00:11
  on their television in some random part of what, Now they
• 1:00:14
  can actively watch it. Anywhere.
• 1:00:15
  They are in the world on the mud, right?
• 1:00:17
  So it makes it much more accessible which means that the
• 1:00:20
  likelihood of wrestling becoming more popular, I think is, yeah,
• 1:00:24
  it's much more likely now because it's just more
• 1:00:26
  accessible. But in terms of like how much
• 1:00:31
  programming there is, I would think that WWE needs to cut down
• 1:00:35
  their probe, programming considerably.
• 1:00:37
  And also work a little bit on their creative.
• 1:00:40
  They do kind of do a lot of self serving staff.
• 1:00:43
  They don't listen to fans a lot. They do a lot of things that are
• 1:00:47
  against fan decisions and it's frustrating because WWE, at its
• 1:00:50
  best is excellent. This is the company that brought
• 1:00:53
  events, like the Royal Rumble which is one of the best ideas
• 1:00:57
  ever conceived. It was made by a gentleman
• 1:00:59
  called Pattinson one of the wrestling industry's biggest
• 1:01:03
  icons just a fantastic rest there and all around creative
• 1:01:08
  guy behind the scenes at WWE. And he came up with this concept
• 1:01:12
  of the war Rumble, which Is This brilliant idea?
• 1:01:15
  It's a 30-man event and now and there's the female version as
• 1:01:18
  well. So, it's even better.
• 1:01:20
  You get, when you, when you get the Royal Rumble that comes
• 1:01:22
  around every year, you get two versions of the Royal Rumble
• 1:01:24
  match, the men's and the women's.
• 1:01:26
  So it's brilliant. But yeah, 30 people go into the
• 1:01:30
  ring though. It starts off with two
• 1:01:34
  competitors and then every less a couple of minutes.
• 1:01:38
  Usually, every minute or every two minutes, a new wrestler will
• 1:01:41
  enter the ring. Sometimes the ring can get It
• 1:01:43
  packed out where people sometimes, it's like people, you
• 1:01:47
  know, coming in and out like really quickly.
• 1:01:50
  That's where you can kind of tell the Royal Rumble story in
• 1:01:53
  different ways. And it's been told what we took
• 1:01:55
  about 30 different times in many different ways that's what makes
• 1:01:59
  it engaging because you never know what to expect.
• 1:02:01
  But other more interesting things about it.
• 1:02:03
  Include the surprise people that turn are people that haven't
• 1:02:07
  been working for the company for many years, people that maybe
• 1:02:10
  have never worked for the company will potentially appear
• 1:02:12
  in this match. Makes it kind of exciting every
• 1:02:17
  year. You never know who's going to
• 1:02:18
  show up but also the way that the wrestling matches actually
• 1:02:23
  played out because typically in a wrestling match you win by
• 1:02:27
  pinfall or submission. So submission being that you
• 1:02:30
  either choke out your opponent until they, you know, are
• 1:02:33
  knocked out and they can't perform anymore or you make them
• 1:02:38
  tap. So submit.
• 1:02:40
  And then the pinfall literally just means holding Your
• 1:02:44
  opponent's back to the mat with their shoulders down and usually
• 1:02:48
  you, you know, lift their leg up or something and hook them and
• 1:02:51
  you count to three all the referee counts to three and then
• 1:02:55
  that's a pinfall willing bipin. But the Royal Rumble Match works
• 1:02:59
  on the premise of having to throw your opponent over the top
• 1:03:02
  rope with both feet touching the floor.
• 1:03:05
  So unique concept, but it works and it's Unique because I think
• 1:03:09
  it's not a match that occurs all the time.
• 1:03:12
  You do get what we call Battle Royal.
• 1:03:14
  And companies like aw have done them as well, but battle rules
• 1:03:19
  tend to be a bit different, generally less competitors and a
• 1:03:24
  slightly different style but essentially the same format, but
• 1:03:28
  the Royal Rumble in terms of its presentation, its overall
• 1:03:33
  appearance and the spectacle of it is just something that
• 1:03:36
  wrestling fans the world over always look forward to and I
• 1:03:39
  think most wrestling casual fans always look forward to the the
• 1:03:43
  period. Between the Royal Rumble to
• 1:03:45
  WrestleMania, which is a period of about three or four months
• 1:03:48
  between January to April that time every year, WWE always
• 1:03:53
  steps up their game and their programming is excellent.
• 1:03:56
  Even the weekly programming is generally, excellent, because
• 1:03:59
  they're building up to WrestleMania.
• 1:04:02
  They're trying to get everyone involved because they want the
• 1:04:05
  biggest kind of turnout for Wrestlemania.
• 1:04:07
  The biggest WrestleMania yet since this whole long build-up
• 1:04:12
  of trying to get everyone Trying to get celebrities at the event
• 1:04:15
  like trying to make get as much mainstream attention involved
• 1:04:19
  around the event as possible like they're really trying to
• 1:04:21
  build it up as much as they can. But unfortunately the rest of
• 1:04:25
  the year it's not always like that and you know, they do they
• 1:04:30
  make a lot of errors and they do a lot of stuff that's
• 1:04:32
  frustrating and they, you know, they'll get, they'll be
• 1:04:36
  supporting a guy, giving a giving him what we call a push
• 1:04:40
  for a couple of weeks. And then they'll just randomly
• 1:04:42
  stopped supporting that Guy and just not bother booking him or
• 1:04:45
  break him to lose or something and it gets very frustrating
• 1:04:49
  being around being a WWE Fan, I would say.
• 1:04:52
  And that's what makes it a lot easier to consume the other
• 1:04:55
  companies. Like, aw impact Ring of Honor
• 1:04:58
  because they do much more logical wrestling.
• 1:05:02
  That's not to say, they always do it.
• 1:05:04
  You know, they make their own mistakes too.
• 1:05:07
  And I've always been very fair in terms of my criticism.
• 1:05:09
  I've always applauded WWE when they've done well and
• 1:05:12
  criticizing when I don't like, I do same with aw, same with any
• 1:05:16
  other wrestling that I consume. I'm always fair about that and I
• 1:05:18
  think most reasonable people are because, you know, it's opinions
• 1:05:23
  at the end of the day and you're entitled to your opinion.
• 1:05:26
  But ultimately you want to be fair because what we all want is
• 1:05:29
  for wrestling to always be good, you know, we don't want it to be
• 1:05:32
  bad when it's bad, it's frustrating.
• 1:05:34
  Because, you know, it could have been good.
• 1:05:36
  You know, what they could have done, could have been a lot
• 1:05:38
  better. And when you have a company like
• 1:05:43
  aw that listens to its fans and kind of puts out content that is
• 1:05:47
  much more appealing to that it makes it much more enticing as a
• 1:05:55
  product to consume. And like I said that's not to
• 1:05:58
  say that WWE never does that. But they could do it much more
• 1:06:02
  and they could appeal to their fans in a stronger way rather
• 1:06:07
  than putting out stuff that's outdated.
• 1:06:10
  Or going against, you know, something that they've been
• 1:06:13
  building up towards. I mean, I think that's the most
• 1:06:15
  frustrating thing of all is when they've been building up
• 1:06:17
  something and then they just do nothing with it.
• 1:06:20
  I mean, really good examples from a couple of years ago, they
• 1:06:22
  have a female wrestler, called Charlotte who is this, excellent
• 1:06:26
  competitor, right at the top of the, women's sort of wrestling
• 1:06:30
  industry, right? And she had this pay-per-view
• 1:06:33
  streak now in the context of wrestler in general, in general,
• 1:06:37
  it doesn't matter, okay? But in the context of of
• 1:06:40
  wrestling in the wrestling World Wrestling logic, right?
• 1:06:43
  If you have an undefeated streak generally you're going to want
• 1:06:46
  to do something with that. Like if the person loses you
• 1:06:50
  want to make it mean something, you know you want them to lose
• 1:06:53
  to someone who's like a big deal, right?
• 1:06:56
  She'd one I think somewhere between like 16 to 18 straight
• 1:07:01
  pay-per-views, something like that.
• 1:07:03
  It was in the double digits, right?
• 1:07:05
  She'd like one every single time.
• 1:07:07
  Consistently not one, not lost at all.
• 1:07:10
  And then randomly 11 time in like 2016 2017 she just randomly
• 1:07:15
  lost on a pay-per-view. So someone and the frustrating
• 1:07:19
  thing about that was that they did nothing with the person that
• 1:07:22
  she lost against. They just kind of carried on and
• 1:07:26
  WWE's attitude. Generally is that wins and
• 1:07:28
  losses don't matter. And I have to disagree, like I
• 1:07:31
  think that because their argument is that it doesn't
• 1:07:34
  matter to the fans who wins or loses, but I disagree.
• 1:07:37
  I think that even in the current mystery that we have right now,
• 1:07:41
  I think it matters more than ever, because it helps you get
• 1:07:44
  behind a person because it shapes your perception of that
• 1:07:47
  person. If you see them winning every
• 1:07:49
  week, you kind of get more into the idea of them being a
• 1:07:53
  champion. But it's not just the fact that
• 1:07:55
  they win, it's how they win as well.
• 1:07:57
  So if they're a bad guy and they've like, for instance, mjf
• 1:08:01
  is a perfect example of this. He's an up-and-coming.
• 1:08:04
  Aw wrestler who is a bad guy, right?
• 1:08:07
  And he everything that he did, he does is consistent.
• 1:08:10
  Bad guy, the way he bad talks, his opponents.
• 1:08:13
  The way he carries himself the way he wrestles his matches.
• 1:08:18
  Exactly what I said in the beginning.
• 1:08:19
  He wrestles like a bad guy and it works every time he won, he
• 1:08:24
  won unfairly, he would punch his opponent opponent with a diamond
• 1:08:27
  ring when the referee wasn't looking and cheat to win, right?
• 1:08:31
  And that's how he wrestled every single time until he got to his
• 1:08:34
  recent world championship match. And when he tried that, you know
• 1:08:39
  again, And still lost, right? But point is it was believable.
• 1:08:44
  And everyone was like screw this guy ever getting, you know, a
• 1:08:47
  championship and even like the reality is everyone's behind him
• 1:08:50
  because everyone can see how unbelievably talented this guy
• 1:08:53
  is and just how much of an excellent performer he is and
• 1:08:56
  how much he's really good at playing a bad guy, but he is
• 1:09:01
  excellent at being consistent with his character and doing
• 1:09:06
  things that are logical and that you would expect to see from his
• 1:09:08
  character. And that's Makes I think
• 1:09:11
  wrestling much more interesting is when you, you know, can see
• 1:09:15
  that a guy is being consistent and doing things that are
• 1:09:18
  logical within the context of their character.
• 1:09:21
  Now, if they're doing something that's not logical, sometimes
• 1:09:24
  that can mean that they're going to turn the other way.
• 1:09:27
  So they're going to become a bad guy but you can normally see
• 1:09:30
  that coming. You can see like little hints of
• 1:09:33
  that. And I think that again is part
• 1:09:35
  of the nuances of professional wrestling.
• 1:09:37
  When you do little things here and there, and you play Aunt
• 1:09:40
  seeds, you show things to the fans little things here and
• 1:09:43
  there you kind of push them in a direction.
• 1:09:47
  This is something that I think aw does very well their little
• 1:09:50
  subtle nuances and again it's not to say that every W doesn't
• 1:09:54
  do that but it's less often a lot of the time it's like hey
• 1:09:57
  support this guy, we think he's the best.
• 1:09:59
  We're going to shove them down your throats and it's very
• 1:10:02
  frustrating but you know, praise where praise is they've WWE have
• 1:10:07
  done really good things in more recent times, such As with Roman
• 1:10:11
  Reigns returning to the company, they have finally turned this
• 1:10:15
  guy into a bad guy and it's something that we've wanted for
• 1:10:19
  so many years. But I think the biggest success
• 1:10:22
  with this is not even the fact that he's a bad guy.
• 1:10:24
  Now it's the fact that the company is allowing him to be a
• 1:10:28
  bad guy. They're allowing him to be who
• 1:10:32
  he is, they're allowing him to be this cool guy.
• 1:10:34
  They're not shoving a script down his throat and its
• 1:10:37
  Brilliance because Roman Reigns is a cool guy.
• 1:10:42
  He is very cool and he just carries himself in a cool way.
• 1:10:47
  And you can immediately see that he's not pent-up, like he was
• 1:10:51
  years ago because he's, you know, having to force himself to
• 1:10:53
  be like, here on the good guy and this guy he's just yeah, I'm
• 1:10:57
  Roman Reigns. I'm gonna kick your fucking ass.
• 1:11:00
  Yeah, that's his attitude and it's more believable and it's
• 1:11:03
  more fun and it's easier to get behind.
• 1:11:06
  And I think that's kind of what I'm driving at with.
• 1:11:08
  This is in reference, Thing you want believability you want
• 1:11:12
  logical nurse? Is that word logical logic
• 1:11:15
  ality? You want everything you want
• 1:11:17
  everything to be logical because it makes it more interesting and
• 1:11:21
  I guess this is kind of like my message to those non wrestling
• 1:11:24
  fans who don't get. It's like, yes, we know that
• 1:11:27
  it's not real but it's like everything else.
• 1:11:30
  It's like acting, you know, movies and stuff.
• 1:11:33
  You know, it's not real but just as the same with with wrestling,
• 1:11:38
  it's the same with acting if you see it.
• 1:11:40
  Bad acting performance. It pulls you out of the movie.
• 1:11:44
  You can't sort of watch it and take it seriously.
• 1:11:46
  If the if the person you're watching is is performing badly,
• 1:11:49
  if they're not acting well because it's like you don't
• 1:11:51
  believe in the character. But if they perform really well
• 1:11:54
  in the act really well, you can totally get behind that
• 1:11:58
  character. And you can totally forget who
• 1:12:00
  that character is as well. There's been so many characters
• 1:12:03
  I've seen over the All actors I should say over the years who
• 1:12:06
  maybe they play like, a particular part, like Ashton
• 1:12:09
  Kutcher is a very Example, for many years, he played that kind
• 1:12:12
  of happy-go-lucky dumbfounded, kind of young teenager /, 20
• 1:12:19
  year old and that largely came out of his role in that TV show
• 1:12:23
  this That 70s Show, right? But then he started going into
• 1:12:26
  movies and playing a serious guy.
• 1:12:28
  And I think his breakthrough is when he played in the movie, The
• 1:12:33
  Butterfly Effect It kind of demonstrated that he can do
• 1:12:37
  serious roles and because his acting was so good, it was
• 1:12:42
  believable and therefore, that made it easier for the audience
• 1:12:47
  to suspend their disbelief. And that's exactly the case with
• 1:12:51
  wrestling and that I would say is why I love wrestling is
• 1:12:55
  because there is believability in it, there is excellent
• 1:12:57
  storytelling. There is always something of
• 1:13:00
  value and entertainment value. And when it's done well it's
• 1:13:04
  serious. Entertaining from all different
• 1:13:07
  perspectives from the storytelling perspective from
• 1:13:11
  the overall performance perspective of the in-ring
• 1:13:14
  product. From the nuances that I spoke
• 1:13:17
  about before. All of these things put
• 1:13:19
  together, I think is what makes good professional wrestling.
• 1:13:24
  Now, in terms of talking about the most successful wrestlers, I
• 1:13:28
  mentioned a couple before, but I think probably Hulk Hogan
• 1:13:32
  Dwayne, The Rock Johnson. I've got rowdy Be Rowdy Roddy,
• 1:13:36
  Piper Jake the Snake Roberts. I think I've mentioned brick
• 1:13:40
  fled and I Stone Cold, Steve Austin, Kane, the Undertaker.
• 1:13:45
  I mean, there's so many Ricky the dragon' steamboat Bret the
• 1:13:50
  Hitman Hart. It really depends what you mean
• 1:13:52
  by most successful if we're talking about, you know, the
• 1:13:55
  ones that made the most money and stuff then.
• 1:13:58
  Oh I think that's one of my cameras.
• 1:13:59
  Diane. Well I've got another camera
• 1:14:01
  going so it's all good. If you're talking about, you
• 1:14:05
  know, Who are the best paid wrestlers then?
• 1:14:09
  Yeah, you're probably looking at like Stone Cold, Steve Austin.
• 1:14:13
  The Rock, Hulk Hogan that those maybe Ric Flair, could be added
• 1:14:19
  in their conversation but generally it's that those three.
• 1:14:23
  But if we're talking about the best kind of performers, you're
• 1:14:26
  thinking of probably, you know, Shawn Michaels.
• 1:14:30
  You're thinking a Bret Hitman Hart.
• 1:14:32
  You thinking of mr. Perfect.
• 1:14:34
  You know, these kind of Of people were excellent in ring
• 1:14:37
  technicians and they will also had what we call in ring
• 1:14:41
  psychology. So they understood how to kind
• 1:14:44
  of logically lay out a match. And, you know, so if they're the
• 1:14:49
  bad guy, they know how to play the bad guy.
• 1:14:50
  If they're the good guy, they know how to play the good guys.
• 1:14:52
  Like I was talking about earlier, they can structure that
• 1:14:55
  match in a way that makes sense and is easy to follow as an
• 1:14:59
  audience member as well. Not just being the performer,
• 1:15:02
  but actually being able to look at what's going on in the ring,
• 1:15:05
  And sort of understand that it's like how can I say this?
• 1:15:12
  Like a Just something to get behind something that you can
• 1:15:17
  look at and say that makes sense that they would perform in that
• 1:15:20
  way, that makes sense that they led into this particular thing.
• 1:15:23
  You know, it's, it makes sense. Therefore, it's good but most
• 1:15:28
  successful wrestlers. Yeah, I mean, I think when I
• 1:15:31
  wrote that, that little Point down, I was kind of thinking of
• 1:15:33
  just like the biggest names, but I think it changes all the time.
• 1:15:37
  I mean, if we're talking to right now, modern era, I guess
• 1:15:41
  the top, the people that are at the top of the company.
• 1:15:43
  Yeah. So like Roman Reigns in WWE, the
• 1:15:48
  fiends Brave wire, we're talking Jon Moxley mjf that I mentioned
• 1:15:54
  before, Chris Jericho, but there are a lot of people that are
• 1:15:58
  emerging that are coming through the ranks, who might be big
• 1:16:02
  deals in the future. I think orange Cassidy from aw,
• 1:16:05
  as one that I'm really excited about because he is a bit of an
• 1:16:09
  unorthodox wrestler. He's this guy that portrays this
• 1:16:12
  character that's like the laziest wrestler and I'll be
• 1:16:17
  honest. The first time that I saw this
• 1:16:18
  guy, I was like, what is this? What, what is he doing?
• 1:16:22
  I just kicking the guys legs. He's not actually, you know,
• 1:16:25
  wrestling and it was hard for me to get behind us like, oh, I
• 1:16:28
  don't know if I like this and then I got it.
• 1:16:31
  Then I started seeing that, you know, he would actually perform
• 1:16:34
  and very, very well, but he would kind of do this thing
• 1:16:38
  where he is lazy to a point. He's lazy.
• 1:16:44
  Until the point where he has to put effort in and then he goes
• 1:16:46
  like naught to 100. It's like, oh my God.
• 1:16:51
  Now, he's a wrestling machine and I was like, that was the
• 1:16:54
  moment where I got it and it's that kind of less is more thing.
• 1:16:57
  He gives you nothing and then he gives you 100% And it's not
• 1:17:01
  really a gimmick that I've ever seen before.
• 1:17:04
  But it's an interesting gimmick and I think for that reason, it
• 1:17:07
  works because it's different because it's something that you
• 1:17:10
  haven't necessarily seen before and a lot of the time.
• 1:17:14
  We're professional wrestling gimmicks are things that, you
• 1:17:17
  know, the word gimmick is kind of a word used to associate with
• 1:17:21
  the character or, you know, maybe something about the
• 1:17:24
  character, you know, like the way they talk, the way they
• 1:17:27
  walk, the way that they wrestle certain things that they say,
• 1:17:31
  whatever the case may be, that can be there giving it might
• 1:17:34
  even just be their name, you know what I mean.
• 1:17:35
  It could be something as simple as that, but with with this
• 1:17:40
  orange Cassidy guy. It's like a, an It's a style.
• 1:17:45
  It's like something that you haven't seen before.
• 1:17:48
  And a lot of gimmicks you have seen before in some shape or
• 1:17:52
  form, they often tend to be recycled or reinvented and
• 1:17:56
  that's fine because to be honest a lot of the time when you're
• 1:17:59
  seeing a gimmick again it's something that you're welcome.
• 1:18:03
  You want to see them do something different with it
• 1:18:05
  though. It's like okay we're seeing this
• 1:18:06
  again, but let's see it in a different way and a lot of the
• 1:18:10
  time I think they're the gimmicks that I see that are
• 1:18:13
  reused and Reinterpreted always done in a new way and done very
• 1:18:17
  well. But this orange, Cassidy one is
• 1:18:20
  an interesting one. It's one that I didn't see
• 1:18:23
  coming and now I'm on board with I like it.
• 1:18:28
  There are a lot of other interesting gimmicks out there.
• 1:18:31
  I think the fiend one is an interesting one because it kind
• 1:18:35
  of harks back to the Mick Foley gimmick of having three.
• 1:18:39
  The three phases of Mick Foley famously were mankind, You'd
• 1:18:44
  love and Cactus Jack, and it was like varying character
• 1:18:49
  differences, all within the same guy and it kind of LED this idea
• 1:18:53
  of like this guy is crazy. You know, he has all these three
• 1:18:56
  different characters and then they would do like silly things.
• 1:18:59
  Like there was a famous thing where they had Mick Foley
• 1:19:02
  talking to himself in an interview situation, like sort
• 1:19:06
  of betraying, the illusion that it's different person.
• 1:19:09
  It's not actually the same person and we all know that it's
• 1:19:13
  the same person. But it's just interesting to
• 1:19:15
  like blur the lines in that way, in terms of the story, you know,
• 1:19:18
  it's fun and they're doing the same thing with Bray Wyatt right
• 1:19:22
  now. Right now you've got the fiend
• 1:19:24
  which is this like monster character and you've got Bray
• 1:19:27
  Wyatt himself, who is this? Kind of like, I suppose
• 1:19:33
  children's TV presenter. That's lost his mind.
• 1:19:35
  That's what I think. That's the probably, the best
• 1:19:36
  way I could put it, if you haven't seen it, it's worth
• 1:19:40
  even. Just checking out his Firefly
• 1:19:42
  van house. I recommend watching it.
• 1:19:44
  Pretty hilarious. And kind of interesting from a
• 1:19:48
  horror perspective as well. Like I'm a big horror fan so I
• 1:19:51
  really like the way that he's portrayed all these things and
• 1:19:55
  the way he's portrayed his characters over the years,
• 1:19:57
  particularly with, with the fiend and everything he did with
• 1:20:00
  his older brother a wire Incarnation, he really is
• 1:20:03
  something that's fun and different and he's also got this
• 1:20:07
  character which he's sort of return to more recently, which
• 1:20:10
  is this cult leader character? And I don't know if this is
• 1:20:14
  something that they're going to continue with, but I think that
• 1:20:16
  they should go WWE should keep pushing this idea of the free
• 1:20:21
  faces gimmick thing again because I think it works with
• 1:20:23
  Bray Wyatt gives him room for versatility and room to kind of
• 1:20:29
  explore these different characters and try these
• 1:20:31
  different nuances. You know, because every one of
• 1:20:35
  these characters Works differently, the fiend is just
• 1:20:39
  Monster aggressive aggression, you know, that's it with A
• 1:20:44
  craziness. You hear them?
• 1:20:45
  Laughing and breathing heavily and stuff when he's wrestling,
• 1:20:47
  right? And he's seemingly
• 1:20:49
  indestructible. But then you've got the normal
• 1:20:51
  Bray Wyatt character who is not indestructible and has been
• 1:20:55
  beaten, right? And in that creates, like some
• 1:20:57
  sort of paradox in your mind, it's like, well, how can the
• 1:20:59
  fiend not lose and be almost indestructible but then, the
• 1:21:04
  Bray Wyatt character is beatable.
• 1:21:06
  What they're not the same character and like everyone
• 1:21:08
  knows what's going on. But in the realm of wrestling,
• 1:21:13
  when you suspended disbelief, Belief, it's fun.
• 1:21:15
  You know, it creates something different.
• 1:21:17
  It creates something that deviates from the norm and
• 1:21:20
  that's what makes it interesting.
• 1:21:22
  In my opinion, in my opinion, that's the important factor
• 1:21:27
  here. Now where might the industry be
• 1:21:32
  headed in the future, I wrote this point down thinking I would
• 1:21:38
  have something profound to say. The question is valid.
• 1:21:43
  So I should say is I don't really know.
• 1:21:45
  I think that the use of LED lighting is going to, you know,
• 1:21:51
  eventually replace not LED lighting limited by the, the LED
• 1:21:55
  screens, the LCD, screens, or whatever, that I think that's
• 1:21:59
  going to replace fans. I think that we will still have
• 1:22:04
  shows physically in person, but I have a feeling that the credit
• 1:22:09
  of the Crowds Are Eventually be replaced by screens, which is
• 1:22:13
  sad because I think that professional wrestling has and
• 1:22:17
  should always be consumed physically as a physical medium
• 1:22:21
  by fans in person. I just feel it's better somehow.
• 1:22:25
  You know, I've only seen professional wrestling two or
• 1:22:28
  three times in person in my life but I would always put that up
• 1:22:32
  there as being far better than watching it on a screen.
• 1:22:37
  And I would say that's the case with a lot of things in life.
• 1:22:40
  You know? For instance, I'd much rather
• 1:22:43
  talk to a person in person and be around them.
• 1:22:46
  Then I would want to, you know, talk to them over messenger.
• 1:22:50
  I hate using Messenger apps, it drives me nuts, one of the
• 1:22:55
  reasons being because things are Lost in Translation and you
• 1:22:59
  can't necessarily correctly, convey all the emotions and
• 1:23:04
  things that you're thinking and things can get Misinterpreted
• 1:23:07
  and also, it just takes long, you know, it's just having to
• 1:23:11
  like type like this, it just takes forever.
• 1:23:14
  Whereas, if you're actually calling the person or talking to
• 1:23:16
  them in person, everything is, is conveyed, and shown, you
• 1:23:22
  know, what I mean? And I feel like we're resting.
• 1:23:24
  It's one of the mediums where you need crowd interaction,
• 1:23:27
  because the wrestlers playoff, then some of the greatest
• 1:23:30
  matches that have ever been performed have been, I think
• 1:23:35
  thanks to To the fans and the wrestlers being able to play off
• 1:23:39
  the fans. And you think about those
• 1:23:41
  classic matches like John Cena vs CM Punk Money in the Bank
• 1:23:45
  2011, or or even? Yeah, the Hulk vs.
• 1:23:49
  You know, the rock. They wouldn't have been the same
• 1:23:53
  without the crowds. They wouldn't have been the
• 1:23:55
  matches they are. Today they wouldn't be
• 1:23:56
  remembered in the same way that they are now.
• 1:23:59
  Had there been no crowds at all. So I think that that might be
• 1:24:03
  where the industry is headed. Hope it isn't.
• 1:24:07
  I hope that we can get through this pandemic, and, and move
• 1:24:11
  forward, and return, at least as far as wrestling is concerned
• 1:24:15
  return to crowds. And I would say that's the same
• 1:24:18
  for everything as well, you know, MBA football, you know,
• 1:24:21
  whatever Sports you want to talk about.
• 1:24:24
  They're just not the same without crowds.
• 1:24:28
  I really feel. The crowd makes the sport.
• 1:24:31
  Makes the entertainment. Makes it what it is.
• 1:24:33
  It's It's same with concerts, you know I mean like I just I
• 1:24:39
  can't wrap my head around this, you know.
• 1:24:41
  I just think it's much better. That's my opinion.
• 1:24:44
  Now as we as we draw this all to a close I actually have a fan
• 1:24:50
  question, I say fan Buck most to call you might remember, was on
• 1:24:55
  the second episode. I believe of the Christian we've
• 1:24:57
  podcast. My very first guest was kind
• 1:25:00
  enough to send in a question. I did ask people if they had any
• 1:25:04
  questions. About wrestling and I would
• 1:25:07
  obviously mention them here. And what I will say is that if I
• 1:25:11
  have future episodes coming up, where it's just me talking,
• 1:25:15
  which there will be, I will be accepting questions and I will
• 1:25:18
  ask ahead of time. So if you would like your
• 1:25:20
  questions to appear in the podcast, then when I tweet out,
• 1:25:24
  make sure you reply and they will be here.
• 1:25:27
  This question, he asked me this, this question.
• 1:25:31
  I've taken this in a general way, but I will address.
• 1:25:34
  What? He was talking about more
• 1:25:36
  specifically, so you'll see what I mean in a second.
• 1:25:39
  He said, why is Vince McMahon insane.
• 1:25:42
  But what he meant was in reference to the recent decision
• 1:25:47
  that WWE has taken to basically ban their wrestlers from having
• 1:25:53
  Twitter accounts and Cameo accounts.
• 1:25:55
  Now, the WWE wrestlers are independent contractors, right?
• 1:26:02
  And this is always caused controversy over the years
• 1:26:04
  because Technically. They can perform anywhere they
• 1:26:09
  want. They don't necessarily have to
• 1:26:11
  perform for WWE. But what WABE has always done is
• 1:26:16
  basically, they own their likenesses.
• 1:26:19
  So if you see a wrestler like the Undertaker, right?
• 1:26:23
  The Undertaker. I don't, I'm not 100% sure about
• 1:26:26
  the Undertaker, actually. Maybe let's pick a different
• 1:26:28
  wrestler because the Undertaker might actually owner's name.
• 1:26:32
  Let's say, oh, Kevin Owens. Kevin Owens doesn't know any
• 1:26:35
  owner's name because Was Kevin Steen on the independence.
• 1:26:39
  So Kevin Owens won't own his name.
• 1:26:42
  Okay? Which means that, if he wanted
• 1:26:46
  to go show up in an independent show as Kevin Owens, right?
• 1:26:52
  WWE would seemingly get any money that Kevin Owens was
• 1:26:58
  entitled to and for that show. Right.
• 1:27:02
  That's not always the case. WWE have allowed some of their
• 1:27:06
  wrestlers, particularly when they sign.
• 1:27:07
  A contract and are returning to the company.
• 1:27:09
  They often let the wrestlers kind of finish off their dates
• 1:27:12
  and then come back to the company.
• 1:27:13
  But the key thing being there is that they won't be using their
• 1:27:16
  name, their actual name that they used in WWE because WWE
• 1:27:20
  owns the names and the and their likenesses and what that means
• 1:27:24
  is like the license to use their, you know, for instance,
• 1:27:27
  their likenesses in professional wrestling games, or animated
• 1:27:30
  series or anything else that WWE cells, you know, merchandise
• 1:27:35
  action figures, T-shirts with faces on whatever, you know,
• 1:27:39
  merchandise in general right there your own the likenesses
• 1:27:44
  but WWE wrestlers are independent contractors so what
• 1:27:49
  that means is that they can, they don't, they're not
• 1:27:52
  employees of WWE. They have a contract with WWE
• 1:27:56
  where their time is essentially. I suppose occupied is probably
• 1:28:01
  the best way to put it and WWE has always done a good job of
• 1:28:04
  this of in terms of like making it so that there wrestlers don't
• 1:28:08
  have time to appear anywhere else because they actively put
• 1:28:12
  them out on the road for 300-plus days a year.
• 1:28:15
  Now, over the years, I think that's decreased a little bit,
• 1:28:18
  but it's still pretty much that schedule.
• 1:28:20
  And I'm not talking about the pandemic period because
• 1:28:22
  obviously, that changes everything.
• 1:28:24
  But typically outside of the pandemic, that's how it always
• 1:28:27
  was. And particularly with the
• 1:28:29
  biggest stars, if they're not wrestling, they'll be doing some
• 1:28:33
  sort of other media. They will be recording.
• 1:28:35
  Maybe something for a documentary.
• 1:28:37
  Treat for WWE Network or they'll be appearing on a show that WWE
• 1:28:41
  network is performing or maybe they're going on like the Today
• 1:28:44
  Show to do an interview to promote an upcoming.
• 1:28:48
  I don't know, pay-per-view or to promote something WWE related.
• 1:28:52
  They're always doing some sort of media or maybe they're doing
• 1:28:55
  a charity event. Like, for instance, WWE is
• 1:28:57
  heavily involved with the Make-A-Wish program, so they get
• 1:29:01
  their wrestlers to go. And basically see these
• 1:29:05
  terminally ill children or children with sicknesses and
• 1:29:08
  basically it's a really cool wholesome thing.
• 1:29:10
  Actually, by the way, I know John Cena has done a lot of
• 1:29:13
  Randy Orton and CM Punk. A lot of wrestlers have done
• 1:29:16
  these. Make our wishes and they've made
• 1:29:18
  children's day. So it's a really awesome skiing.
• 1:29:20
  But anyway, they're involved with all these different things,
• 1:29:24
  so involves all of their time. So they don't really have any
• 1:29:27
  time to do anything else. Fast forward to the pandemic.
• 1:29:32
  Yeah, you know, public meetings of this scale are not allowed.
• 1:29:37
  So the only time the rest is a really needed is for television,
• 1:29:41
  which is a couple of times a week but the wrestlers won't
• 1:29:45
  always be required and WWE has been cutting their costs of
• 1:29:48
  late. They've been letting wrestlers
• 1:29:50
  go and some of those wrestlers have turned up in other
• 1:29:53
  companies, they've let you know, surprising people go like, they
• 1:29:59
  let a referee go recently, Mike keota who?
• 1:30:01
  Turned up in aw recently after 33 years and it was somewhat
• 1:30:06
  unceremonious lie. They say it's to cut costs.
• 1:30:11
  I say you cut your costs elsewhere.
• 1:30:15
  I think there are other areas you you could cut costs before
• 1:30:17
  you let the talent go but you know I just think it's a bit
• 1:30:21
  shitty to let your wrestlers go during a pandemic situation
• 1:30:25
  where, you know, They don't really have anywhere necessarily
• 1:30:29
  to go, there are places to go but it's a much harder, you
• 1:30:32
  know, I mean, there's not as many options like, for instance,
• 1:30:35
  if you can't get into one of the big companies, you know that the
• 1:30:37
  major promotions, it's not like you can go to Independence, you
• 1:30:41
  know, mean like The Independents are not allowed to put on shows,
• 1:30:44
  so you're limited in terms of where you can go right now.
• 1:30:48
  Bringing it back to the time that these wrestlers have.
• 1:30:51
  They have a lot more time. Some wrestlers like Xavier Woods
• 1:30:56
  is a good example. Pool or Austin Creed is of
• 1:30:58
  Izzy's Otherwise Known. He's had a YouTube channel for
• 1:31:01
  many years which he set up. I believe as he started
• 1:31:05
  wrestling in W. So, sometime in 2015, 2016, he
• 1:31:08
  started up your YouTube channel and all his branding has nothing
• 1:31:12
  to do with with him. His wrestler character, actually
• 1:31:14
  it's under Austin Creed, which is his name and his channel is
• 1:31:20
  called up up down down. Now he's done.
• 1:31:22
  He's had wrestlers on their WWE, personnel and staff, you know,
• 1:31:27
  But he presents it as him, and he owns that, right?
• 1:31:31
  And he also has twitch and a many of these wrestlers say,
• 1:31:34
  like a.j. styles, for example, has twitch and they own extra
• 1:31:40
  revenue from these things, but a lot of the time they don't use
• 1:31:43
  their likenesses or their name, some of them do, and I've had to
• 1:31:46
  change them. So be interesting to see if
• 1:31:48
  they're still allowed to do this.
• 1:31:50
  I know that Lana, who is the wife of former wrestler, former
• 1:31:55
  WWE wrestler, Russa now, Going by mirror, had a Twitch account.
• 1:32:00
  And no. Sorry.
• 1:32:02
  I tell a lie wrong person page. WWE, wrestler, pays.
• 1:32:08
  I do apologize. She has changed her name back to
• 1:32:11
  Serie her actual name on, on Twitch.
• 1:32:15
  And I don't know if this will work, but considering that she
• 1:32:20
  was going by the name page, which is her WWE name which WWE
• 1:32:24
  owns now. She's changed.
• 1:32:26
  Get back to her real name. So I don't know if that will
• 1:32:28
  work for twitch or if she'll be banned and not be able to do it
• 1:32:32
  anymore. But basically what WWE has said
• 1:32:34
  is that all the wrestlers that are using twitch or earning
• 1:32:37
  money through Cameo, which basically is when is a thing
• 1:32:42
  where you can basically get people to send you money and
• 1:32:45
  then you record a personalized message for them, right?
• 1:32:49
  So basically they've banned all wrestlers from doing that
• 1:32:53
  they're saying, no, you can't do that.
• 1:32:55
  We own your likeness is Looky. Not you have like a week or
• 1:32:58
  something before we cut this and you know, you're basically that
• 1:33:03
  you'll be fired if you continue doing this, right?
• 1:33:06
  And this has caused a lot of controversy and this is, I think
• 1:33:09
  the reason why but Master call sent in this question, what is
• 1:33:12
  my opinion on that? Well, I see it in different ways
• 1:33:16
  from a business perspective. I understand the decision Vince
• 1:33:22
  McMahon, you know, is the leader of the company.
• 1:33:24
  And from a business perspective is if his wrestlers are earning
• 1:33:28
  money outside of WWE and using their likenesses in order to get
• 1:33:35
  that money. He's missing out on potential
• 1:33:38
  Revenue, he's missing out on money, and you could argue that
• 1:33:44
  WWE should put something in place in order to do that, which
• 1:33:47
  I don't deny, they will. I think that now, that they're
• 1:33:50
  bringing in this thing where they're saying, no, you can't do
• 1:33:52
  cameos. No, you can't do twitch.
• 1:33:54
  I wouldn't be surprised if those same wrestlers are now expected
• 1:33:57
  to do the same things for WWE, but not get paid for it, right.
• 1:34:03
  WWE's argument, will probably be that.
• 1:34:05
  Well, we're paying the talent. Do this.
• 1:34:08
  You know, we're given them x y&z amount of money in order to do
• 1:34:12
  this. So with that in mind, you know,
• 1:34:18
  It's not fair, or from a business standpoint, they're
• 1:34:22
  earning money off, something that we own being their
• 1:34:24
  likenesses and and everything in between that's the business side
• 1:34:29
  of it, okay? When I heard that decision, I
• 1:34:32
  understood it, I got it. I understood why it's it, I
• 1:34:35
  think more. So, with Cameo, I think, is the
• 1:34:37
  bigger issue because some of the wrestlers, I think, biggie, for
• 1:34:40
  example, and as much as like, 40K through doing cameos, right?
• 1:34:46
  And, you know, A lot of money and he could have and a lot
• 1:34:51
  more, I'm sure many of those wrestlers could have earned a
• 1:34:53
  lot more for you doing that but it's a situation of you.
• 1:34:57
  Should they be allowed to do that?
• 1:35:01
  From business standpoint, Maybe not.
• 1:35:04
  Maybe, you know, if the company owns their likenesses, maybe
• 1:35:06
  they should get for ownership over everything that they do.
• 1:35:10
  However, and this is where I disagree because my personal
• 1:35:14
  opinion is that this is ridiculous thing entirely.
• 1:35:18
  Particularly when you're in a situation where you're letting
• 1:35:21
  wrestlers go during a worldwide pandemic where they have
• 1:35:24
  seemingly not many options of places they can go, you know,
• 1:35:27
  it's not like they can just Waltz into the next company.
• 1:35:30
  Just because you leave, WWE doesn't mean that you're going
• 1:35:32
  to automatically walk into like a w or bring of on or impact.
• 1:35:37
  That's not guaranteed. You know, that's those companies
• 1:35:40
  might not necessarily have the funds to take on everyone, they
• 1:35:43
  might not need everyone. That's the thing.
• 1:35:45
  You're not guaranteed anything. So if you get, let go during
• 1:35:48
  this time, it's very hard. There's no, you haven't got many
• 1:35:51
  options as a professional wrestler, right?
• 1:35:55
  And if you've got all this time in the world where you're not
• 1:35:58
  having to wrestle all the time, you know, you're not having to
• 1:36:00
  do the live events, which is a lot of occupied, a lot of the
• 1:36:03
  time, when those professional wrestlers weren't in the global
• 1:36:07
  pandemic, you know, they were wrestling event to event and
• 1:36:11
  then the weekly Raw SmackDown NXT.
• 1:36:13
  So, there's a lot of wrestling going on plus dark matches as
• 1:36:16
  well. The happened before and after
• 1:36:17
  the shows so that they're occupied like pretty much 24/7.
• 1:36:22
  That's why you here wrestling stories of light.
• 1:36:24
  Never seen their kids, never seen their families because
• 1:36:26
  they're actively on the road 300 days a year.
• 1:36:30
  Sometimes ratchet wrestling several matches in a day.
• 1:36:33
  You know, it's really intense Stuff.
• 1:36:35
  Plus they got to fit time in to, you know, work out and keep
• 1:36:38
  themselves in shape. And like I said, do all of those
• 1:36:42
  things with regards to Media meetings and stuff.
• 1:36:46
  So they're constantly doing stuff, but during this pandemic
• 1:36:50
  they're not they don't have as much commitments.
• 1:36:54
  So what you gonna do with the time, you're going to work on
• 1:36:56
  your personal projects, you're going to work on finding ways to
• 1:36:59
  make money because you know what?
• 1:37:02
  Other options do you have? You got to keep trying to make
• 1:37:04
  money, you got to make a living for your family and stuff.
• 1:37:06
  Right. That's what everyone would do.
• 1:37:08
  So are they doing something wrong?
• 1:37:12
  I don't think so. Even from a business standpoint,
• 1:37:14
  I don't think that this is that unreasonable.
• 1:37:16
  I don't think it. Maybe it goes against something
• 1:37:18
  in their contracts. I know the WWE is very finicky
• 1:37:21
  with these details and we'll probably put something Contracts
• 1:37:24
  to stop them. They given this latest
• 1:37:26
  announcement. I would say it's probably not
• 1:37:28
  something that they anticipated, but now I would wager if you
• 1:37:32
  sign a WWE contract. Now, you won't be able.
• 1:37:35
  It will probably have something in there, like, you can't do
• 1:37:37
  twitch. You can't do Cameo, can't do
• 1:37:39
  anything outside. Unless WWE says, it's allowed
• 1:37:41
  kind of thing, but I think that the wrestlers should be allowed
• 1:37:46
  to do it using their real names. I don't think that you can
• 1:37:51
  justify that, you know, for instance, if you have a page
• 1:37:56
  that's take page again, as an example, if you have her going
• 1:37:58
  by her actual name and people find that people know her as
• 1:38:02
  page, right? But she's going by her normal
• 1:38:05
  name. I think as long as she doesn't
• 1:38:09
  discuss anything related to WWE, you know, like inside us that, I
• 1:38:13
  mean, she wouldn't anyway, but like, just hypothetically, if
• 1:38:16
  people were asking her staff or ask, How to do stuff that's like
• 1:38:20
  unacceptable or whatever. Then that could represent a
• 1:38:24
  conflict of interest for the company, right?
• 1:38:27
  But if it's just her streaming some games, talking to her fans
• 1:38:32
  II. Don't I don't see how that's
• 1:38:34
  unreasonable. I don't see how you can justify
• 1:38:36
  Banning someone particularly when they're not using the
• 1:38:38
  likeness. Like I said, I think the lines
• 1:38:43
  blur when, when certain things are revealed that maybe perhaps
• 1:38:46
  shouldn't be a good. Recent example is when a AJ
• 1:38:49
  Styles on his twitch, sort of said some Insider stuff about
• 1:38:54
  working with Paul Heyman stuff. He was just giving his genuine
• 1:38:57
  opinion and that's fair, it's his twitch.
• 1:39:00
  He can do what he wants. But yeah, I mean, he still
• 1:39:04
  contracted for the company. So anything he says is likely to
• 1:39:07
  get him in trouble. I don't know.
• 1:39:09
  As we're there stands from a legal standpoint but potentially
• 1:39:13
  I guess that could get him in trouble.
• 1:39:15
  So there there were Blurred Lines.
• 1:39:17
  I don't think this is a very Black and white situation that
• 1:39:21
  you can easily kind of say, is one way or the other.
• 1:39:24
  You know what I mean? Is it's I think it's something
• 1:39:26
  that needs to be worked out, but I think W needs to be fairer.
• 1:39:31
  I don't think they've been very fair in this pandemic and they
• 1:39:36
  really, I feel shown their true colors.
• 1:39:39
  That's not to say, they haven't been our souls before because
• 1:39:42
  they have too many wrestlers. And I fought for many for more
• 1:39:46
  recent years, I thought they were getting better.
• 1:39:48
  I thought they were becoming more reasonable as a company,
• 1:39:52
  but I think they're in many ways becoming less reasonable.
• 1:39:56
  You know, I mean, in a time when things are uncertain and you
• 1:39:59
  don't know what to expect and you don't know, kind of where
• 1:40:04
  things are headed. I think you need to kind of give
• 1:40:07
  your performers. Some hope, some reassurance
• 1:40:11
  instead of just kicking them out on the curb.
• 1:40:13
  You know, I understand this idea of cutting costs but you could
• 1:40:16
  have cut costs elsewhere before you Your people, you know what I
• 1:40:20
  mean? And they always talk about being
• 1:40:22
  a family and being there for their their employees but
• 1:40:26
  they're really not. I think that they see them very
• 1:40:29
  much as a kind of asset as opposed to, you know, being part
• 1:40:33
  of the family, kind of thing. That's not to say that they
• 1:40:35
  treat everyone like that because there are exceptions in that
• 1:40:38
  company. But when you hear so many
• 1:40:40
  stories that are consistent and they all have the same kind of
• 1:40:46
  feeling, even the guys that come out of those companies, He's or
• 1:40:49
  girls that don't dis the company, they say, oh, thanks
• 1:40:53
  for the time and they're polite and they're nice and they're
• 1:40:55
  thankful. Even those people, you know,
• 1:40:59
  that they're better off elsewhere and they're happier,
• 1:41:03
  yo, take ft, ours and example. You know, they were given many
• 1:41:08
  opportunities in WWE, but they just weren't portrayed in a very
• 1:41:11
  flattering Manner and ewwww doesn't really prioritize.
• 1:41:16
  Prioritize its tag team division in the way that other Any state,
• 1:41:21
  they are getting a little bit better with this but it's not
• 1:41:23
  consistent enough and I think that's the issue with WWE has
• 1:41:26
  always been consistency. It's it's a case of trying to to
• 1:41:31
  kind of appeal to what wrestlers, what is best for
• 1:41:36
  wrestlers, you know, I think that needs to be something that
• 1:41:40
  needs to change moving forward. So that's kind of my Spiel on
• 1:41:46
  that on the twitch stuff. I mean, I think that, you know,
• 1:41:49
  No, it could. It could be It could be argued,
• 1:41:58
  both ways, I think. But I think they should be
• 1:42:01
  allowed to do what they want under their own likenesses.
• 1:42:05
  I think that's perfectly reasonable.
• 1:42:07
  Aw seems to be allowing its wrestlers to actively promote
• 1:42:11
  themselves under their names as well.
• 1:42:14
  But I would argue though that a lot of those wrestlers own their
• 1:42:16
  own names, so, from the independence, so I do, I think
• 1:42:21
  it's might be a little bit different if aw, creates
• 1:42:24
  gimmicks. And you start seeing those same
• 1:42:27
  people, using those gimmicks on other social media platforms, or
• 1:42:34
  for things like Cameo and twitch.
• 1:42:36
  Maybe we might see a similar situation with them in the
• 1:42:38
  future. We never know.
• 1:42:40
  I mean, this has just come up, but to address the bigger
• 1:42:43
  question of, why is Vince McMahon, insane.
• 1:42:48
  I don't think he's insane. I think he's a workaholic I
• 1:42:53
  think and I'd that's something I understand.
• 1:42:55
  The big workaholic as well, and I think he lives and breathes
• 1:42:59
  Sports entertainment. He always has.
• 1:43:02
  He's very passionate about it. It's a part of him.
• 1:43:05
  And when you're that passionate about, what you love, you can
• 1:43:09
  spend so much more time on it than other people.
• 1:43:12
  Do, you know? Like, for instance, with my
• 1:43:14
  marketing work, I don't have the same passion that I do with, say
• 1:43:18
  my music or my content creating, you know, it's not the same.
• 1:43:24
  So I find myself Myself getting like board or having to take
• 1:43:27
  several breaks at one time when I'm doing my marketing stuff,
• 1:43:30
  because I see it as something, I just have to get out the way I
• 1:43:33
  have to get it done, right? I find things in it that I enjoy
• 1:43:38
  and I always make the best of it and do it to the best of my
• 1:43:40
  ability. But I have to have brakes, I
• 1:43:45
  have to continually try and motivate myself.
• 1:43:48
  Whereas, if I'm working on, you know, podcasting YouTube music,
• 1:43:54
  I can go For like hours, upon hours, upon hours, sometimes
• 1:43:59
  without eating, and still have the same level of like
• 1:44:02
  motivation and still be actively engaged in what I'm doing and
• 1:44:06
  enjoy the whole process and be just constantly into it the
• 1:44:11
  whole time, you know? And that's something that I
• 1:44:16
  think comes from that passion of living and breathing it and
• 1:44:19
  enjoying it and, and just enjoying the work being
• 1:44:23
  passionate about the work. I think this is Something that a
• 1:44:26
  lot of people don't understand because they don't always
• 1:44:28
  necessarily do what they love, they do jobs that pay the bills
• 1:44:32
  that you know get them from A to B you know that they're not
• 1:44:35
  passionate about maybe they're good at maybe they like but
• 1:44:38
  they're not like passionate about it.
• 1:44:40
  They don't like you know wake up in the morning and feel excited
• 1:44:42
  about it. Take this podcast for example I
• 1:44:45
  was a bit apprehensive about it but I was excited to do it.
• 1:44:49
  I was excited to talk about wrestling.
• 1:44:50
  I was excited to just talk and do a podcast because I love to
• 1:44:54
  do podcasts. That's why I keep doing it,
• 1:44:57
  right? And you know I know that there's
• 1:45:00
  loads of work involved with that, I know I'm going to have
• 1:45:02
  to edit this afterwards, right? But I don't mind.
• 1:45:06
  It's part of the process. I enjoy it right.
• 1:45:09
  But I don't enjoy you know the same kind of process say with
• 1:45:13
  marketing because to me it's a job and it's not something that
• 1:45:16
  I'm as passionate about bringing that back to Vince McMahon.
• 1:45:19
  I think it's the same thing. He's a man that's very
• 1:45:22
  passionate about what he does and I think people hold that
• 1:45:25
  don't get that can see that as being crazy like or he's a
• 1:45:29
  workaholic he's you know, how can he be so involved with that
• 1:45:32
  and so obsessed with it. Like what's wrong with him?
• 1:45:35
  That's one element. I think that I understand and
• 1:45:38
  kind of can relate to him on now as it pertains to the everything
• 1:45:43
  else. His eccentricity, his overall
• 1:45:47
  personality, he's an out there guy, he's an eccentric guy.
• 1:45:51
  He's you know, we all know someone who's a bit of a
• 1:45:54
  character you know characters. What make life interesting.
• 1:45:58
  Some people say he's a good guy. Some people say he's a bad guy.
• 1:46:02
  I think that comes down to perception, your relationship to
• 1:46:05
  him. I think, first and foremost, he
• 1:46:07
  is a businessman. He has a heart.
• 1:46:10
  He's not an asshole. I think he's done bad things in
• 1:46:14
  his life questionable things, but I think he's a good guy at
• 1:46:18
  heart. I think it's just the nature of
• 1:46:20
  business. Sometimes makes people do things
• 1:46:23
  that aren't necessarily more. He just or, you know, on always
• 1:46:28
  necessarily the like the right things in life, but are good for
• 1:46:32
  business, you know. And that's a trade-off in
• 1:46:34
  business. Sometimes, you know, is you have
• 1:46:36
  to make those tough decisions and he's a guy.
• 1:46:41
  That makes those tough decisions because I think he believes in
• 1:46:43
  his vision, he believes in what he's doing and some people see
• 1:46:47
  that as crazy. Some people say yeah it depends.
• 1:46:50
  It really depends on your perception in life of like
• 1:46:53
  different things. I personally don't think that
• 1:46:56
  Vince McMahon is crazy. I just think he's passionate,
• 1:47:01
  he's driven. I like the guy.
• 1:47:05
  I don't always agree with everything that he does.
• 1:47:07
  I think he makes plenty of mistakes.
• 1:47:09
  I think he does things that On quite acceptable, but he's
• 1:47:15
  human. You know what I mean?
• 1:47:17
  We're all human. We all make mistakes.
• 1:47:19
  We all do things wrong and right.
• 1:47:21
  And, you know, he's made an entire career, he's made an
• 1:47:24
  Empire, not just not just a successful company.
• 1:47:28
  He's made something that will live on for Generations.
• 1:47:32
  You know, there are there might be companies emerging like aw
• 1:47:36
  that are representing a challenge but I think it's next
• 1:47:40
  to Impossible. Possible to be able to defeat
• 1:47:42
  WWE in the classic sense that say like aw.
• 1:47:45
  Sorry, WCW presented the challenge back in the day.
• 1:47:48
  They could have potentially put WWF out of business.
• 1:47:51
  At one point in the mid 90s that was very possible.
• 1:47:55
  But over the years, you know, through successful decision
• 1:47:58
  after successful decision after Vince McMahon embracing, you
• 1:48:03
  know, the culture and bracing new people's ideas.
• 1:48:06
  This is the thing, he's always had people around him, the
• 1:48:08
  younger, the Involved in in, kind of today's society, today's
• 1:48:15
  culture, you know, he's always willing to take on new ideas.
• 1:48:19
  There are a lot of people that will say that he, you know, is
• 1:48:22
  out of touch and doesn't Embrace today's society and stuff.
• 1:48:27
  And I think there are elements of Truth in that because he is
• 1:48:31
  reverting a lot of the time or referring back to what has
• 1:48:34
  worked in the past, right? Because when you're looking at
• 1:48:37
  business and you're doing things successfully, you want to
• 1:48:40
  replicate. Kate things that you've done
• 1:48:41
  before you want to say, well this work before this made me
• 1:48:44
  money before. So I'm going to keep doing it
• 1:48:45
  this way. You know, why would we try it
• 1:48:46
  this way? When that's never made me money
• 1:48:48
  before but that's the reality of business as well as you've got
• 1:48:52
  to do things that will potentially make you money.
• 1:48:56
  Make you more money than you've ever made before and he is at
• 1:48:59
  heart a businessman. So he's going to try different
• 1:49:01
  things. He's not always going to get it
• 1:49:03
  right, sometimes he'll put his foot down, you know, I think a
• 1:49:08
  lot of business is feeling He's out being confident about
• 1:49:12
  things. It's as much about being logical
• 1:49:15
  and using your mind as it is about trust in your heart, trust
• 1:49:20
  in your emotions on things, I think maybe Vince his problem is
• 1:49:24
  that he doesn't always trust in things for long enough.
• 1:49:28
  You know he gets a bit I noticed a scare because I don't think
• 1:49:31
  that's the right word but maybe he gets a bit anxious about
• 1:49:34
  certain things and pulls the plug too early or maybe he does
• 1:49:39
  things that are like a bit alarming.
• 1:49:40
  Logical. But that's kind of the genius of
• 1:49:42
  the guys well because he does things are left field.
• 1:49:45
  That sometimes just work and no one kind of expected.
• 1:49:48
  You know what I mean? It's something that kind of you
• 1:49:51
  couldn't see coming but everyone loved so, I don't know.
• 1:49:57
  Is he insane or why is he insane?
• 1:50:00
  I don't think he's insane. I think he does insane things
• 1:50:03
  sometimes but I just think he's a good businessman personally
• 1:50:07
  and it's funny. I thought I would be and find
• 1:50:10
  myself criticizing him, but I'm not.
• 1:50:13
  It's something that I didn't. I don't find myself, criticizing
• 1:50:18
  finally enough. So yeah, it is what it is, but
• 1:50:21
  anyway, that kind of draws us to a close for today's episode.
• 1:50:25
  This was wrestling me talking about wrestling.
• 1:50:29
  Yeah, let me know what you think.
• 1:50:31
  Let me know if you want to hear more.
• 1:50:33
  I don't think. We're always going to talk about
• 1:50:34
  wrestling on this podcast because this podcast is about
• 1:50:38
  many different things. You know.
• 1:50:40
  It's about interviewing people and getting to know people it's
• 1:50:43
  about having deep conversations talking about all different
• 1:50:47
  things. I don't want it to just become a
• 1:50:49
  wrestling podcast, but I would be open to doing a wrestling
• 1:50:53
  podcast. Potentially I'm just saying but
• 1:50:58
  I don't know. I really would rather appear on
• 1:50:59
  other people's fault costs because I don't have the time to
• 1:51:03
  keep up with everything in the wrestling world.
• 1:51:05
  I mean, I'm amazed that some people can, I mean that takes
• 1:51:08
  dedication I can just about keep up with all the WWE
• 1:51:11
  pay-per-views and everything. Aw, but it leaves very little
• 1:51:16
  time for everything else. If I'm indeed I'm gonna continue
• 1:51:18
  doing everything else that I like to do.
• 1:51:21
  So it's very much a case of picking and choosing But like I
• 1:51:25
  said, in the beginning, I wanted to do this episode.
• 1:51:28
  I love wrestling. I always will.
• 1:51:30
  It's a very, very strange thing. I think.
• 1:51:34
  It's like, Marmite. You would love it or you hate
• 1:51:36
  it. I love it.
• 1:51:37
  I always will. Let me know your thoughts about
• 1:51:42
  wrestling about what you think about.
• 1:51:43
  I would love to know, let me know if you two topics, you
• 1:51:47
  would like to hear me cover on the Christian we've podcast
• 1:51:50
  because we're going to do more podcasts like this.
• 1:51:52
  Like I said, if we can't find guess.
• 1:51:55
  And you better believe. I'm going to keep doing podcasts
• 1:51:57
  like this in depth, but at least I'll have some structure like
• 1:52:01
  this one had. We weren't just rambling the
• 1:52:03
  whole time. We actually covered a lot of
• 1:52:06
  different things and I'm very proud of that so I'm giving
• 1:52:08
  myself a pat on the back anyway. Just want to say another big,
• 1:52:14
  thank you to everyone listening to the Christian we've podcast
• 1:52:17
  on all different platforms. I love you all.
• 1:52:19
  Thank you so much for the support.
• 1:52:22
  We're going to keep going. We're going to keep pushing.
• 1:52:24
  Him going to see where this podcast leads us, because I've
• 1:52:27
  been loving it and it's just been so much fun and I just
• 1:52:31
  can't wait to keep doing it. I don't know, I just I really
• 1:52:34
  enjoy this. I've really been enjoying not
• 1:52:36
  just the podcast but YouTube in general because I've been
• 1:52:39
  approaching it from the perspective of when I have an
• 1:52:42
  idea I go for it and this is one of the reasons why I don't do
• 1:52:47
  the podcast with a clear schedule.
• 1:52:50
  I do it as and when so yeah, sometimes you might be waiting a
• 1:52:53
  while. For good podcast but it will
• 1:52:57
  come because I'll come with an idea.
• 1:52:59
  I won't just do things for the sake of it.
• 1:53:01
  I never will because I feel like bad content is produced when you
• 1:53:05
  when you come out come at it with that attitude.
• 1:53:08
  Sometimes I have a lot of content and a lot of ideas and
• 1:53:11
  I'll make them happen. Sometimes I have no ideas is so
• 1:53:14
  I just take some time and that's a very scary thought when you
• 1:53:19
  don't have ideas and you're like, oh I know, I need to come
• 1:53:22
  up with something and I feel stressed.
• 1:53:24
  But what's better to make your fans wait and to then deliver
• 1:53:29
  something that's really good or to Just Produce crap, but for
• 1:53:35
  the sake of it, you know what I mean.
• 1:53:36
  I don't want to do that. I want to present stuff that I'm
• 1:53:38
  proud of that. I worked hard on, so that's the
• 1:53:41
  way it is. I really hope that you enjoyed
• 1:53:45
  this episode. As much as I did talking about
• 1:53:47
  it, we really went into depth with this one is quite
• 1:53:50
  surprising. One eye covered things that I
• 1:53:53
  didn't think I would cover. Because I was going to come at
• 1:53:55
  this from a very general aesthetic perspective, but I did
• 1:53:58
  get into the weeds with certain things.
• 1:54:01
  I do apologize. If that's not your thing but I
• 1:54:04
  really enjoyed. It had a lot of fun doing it.
• 1:54:07
  Yeah, I don't know. Let me know what you would like
• 1:54:10
  to see in the next episode or in an upcoming episode of the
• 1:54:13
  Christian we have podcast. Thank you so much for listening
• 1:54:17
  and until next time, peace out. One love ciao.