Latest / Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney / Risk-Averse to Risk-Taker: Nora Shiel's Approach to Building a Wedding Business

Transcript

Risk-Averse to Risk-Taker: Nora Shiel's Approach to Building a Wedding Business · Wedding Pros who are ready to grow - with Becca Pountney

0:00
Nora: I mean, that's part of business.
0:01
You're gonna do things right and you're gonna do things wrong, and
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hopefully you learn from the things that you did wrong and move on from
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them because that's truly how we grow.
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We all make mistakes no matter how long you've been in the industry, and everyone
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screws up and that's just a way of life, and you can't kick yourself over it.
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Becca: I am Becca Pountney, wedding business marketing expert,
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speaker and blogger, and you are listening to The Wedding Pros
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who are Ready to Grow podcast.
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I'm here to share with you actionable tips, strategies, and real life
0:31
examples to help you take your wedding business to the next level.
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If you are an ambitious wedding business owner that wants to take your passion
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and use it to build a profitable, sustainable business doing what you
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love, then you're in the right place.
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Let's get going with today's episode.
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Today I'm chatting with Nora Shiels based in Oregon in the us.
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Nora owns award-winning, wedding planning firm, bridal Bliss, and
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more recently, she launched Rock Paper Coin with her sister-in-law.
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It's a client management platform to help simplify proposals,
1:01
contracts, and invoicing.
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You'll find Nora speaking on stages across the us so I'm thrilled to
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welcome her onto the podcast today.
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Nora, welcome.
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Nora: Thank you so much.
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It's so great to see you.
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Becca: It's so good to have you here.
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How is life looking out there in Oregon?
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Is the sun shining?
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Nora: Oh my gosh, it is shining here.
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We normally have rainy winters and springs, so I'm looking outside and
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the sun is shining and I'm chatting with you, so it's a great day.
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Becca: It's always good.
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I feel like in my head it's always sunny in the us.
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I'm sure that's not true.
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I think we just have this picture perfect Disneyland view of the states.
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But I'm glad to hear that the sun is shining cuz it's really
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cold in England right now.
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Now Nora, as I said in the intro, you started out in the wedding
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business as a wedding planner.
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So I wondered if we could start by going way back to then.
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So explain to me, how did you end up in this wonderful
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industry in the first place?
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Nora: Sure.
1:58
So I have been smitten with weddings since I was a young child.
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My parents are both Iraqi immigrants that moved to the United States.
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Gosh almost 50 years ago at this point.
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But my mom started doing alterations out of our house as just kind of
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like a side hustle, and it kind of turned into word of mouth that it
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was great for wedding alterations.
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So all of these brides would come in and, you know, they'd get on
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her little step stool and they'd wear these beautiful gowns.
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And my mom always had bridal magazines and pattern.
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And you know, all the wedding things around.
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And so I was exposed to it at an early age and just really fell in love with it.
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And I went to a way to college and there was a business plan competition
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and I just thought planning events and weddings was so fun and.
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Wedding planners, at that time, it was like Mindy Weiss, Colin Cowie, you
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know, like all the big celebrity names.
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There weren't wedding planners everywhere.
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It wasn't a common thing, and especially not in Oregon.
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So I just looked into it and I thought, you know, if I am gonna do
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this, I have a deadline with this competition and I have nothing to lose.
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So, Do it.
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And so I got together with a friend of mine that was a finance major, and we
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put together a business plan and we won.
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And the terms of the business plan were, of the competition
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were if you actually start the company, It, the winnings doubles.
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So I was like, okay.
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Like I literally have nothing to lose.
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I'm gonna move home, live with my parents.
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I have no expenses, so let's just do this.
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And here I am, 21, late 21 years later, it worked.
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And I loved it even early on when I was, you know, schlepping and doing everything
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from being the CEO to the janitor.
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And, you know, it was a very slow growth for me.
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I'm not a very risky person.
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So as the company grew, I'd bring on more planners, and today
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the company is doing very well.
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We have about 30 planners.
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We plan upwards of 150 weddings per year in three different markets in
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the Pacific Northwest in the us.
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So, It's been quite the experience.
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I still love weddings after all this time, but it was, you know, at the end
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of around 2018 where my sister-in-law, Elizabeth, who was a planner with me at
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Bridal Bliss, she actually started as an intern and quickly, you know, rose the
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ranks and was a lead planner and helped us expand into Seattle, Washington.
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Oh, and later I introduced her to my husband's brother and they got.
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So now we're related, but we were together one night and just kind of
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complaining about our wedding clients and how we felt like we had turned
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into babysitters instead of planners.
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And we were constantly reminding them to do the same thing over and over again
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and like, did you sign that contract?
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Did you pay that invoice?
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We're like totally out of the loop and it was.
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Kind of getting to us.
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So we set out to find software that was already out there in the industry and
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we tried everything like you name it, whether it was wedding focused or not.
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We tried it and found a problem with it.
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A lot of software that isn't event focused doesn't really understand
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how the wedding industry works.
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Like there are three key players.
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There's the client, the vendor, and then the planner.
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And if you leave the planner outta the communication, it's gonna fail.
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So anyway, long story short, we couldn't find what we were
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looking for and so we built it.
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So Rock paper Coin was born towards the end of 2019 and we focus mainly on the
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booking process of weddings and events.
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So we do proposals, contracts.
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Invoices.
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We have shared documents and tons of resources for our members,
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and we automate a lot of it.
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So it's simple, it's easy, it's attractive, and we have the lowest
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processing fee you can find on the market.
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So that's our shtick.
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That's my whole weddings story.
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Becca: Wow.
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What an incredible story.
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And I love that it started from a competition and look at where it's
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taking you all of these years later.
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And also, I wanna pick up on something you said, because I know that this
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will be in people's minds, is you said, I'm not really a risk taker yet.
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You've created this huge business of wedding planners.
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You've taken the leap to start a second business, to help these
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people in the wedding industry to fulfill this gap in the market.
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You can't say that you're not a risk taker.
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How have you done it?
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Nora: Well, touche, touche.
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I think when I say that, like, you know, I didn't put every last cent into this
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one company, and it was all or nothing, you know, like I always needed fallback.
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I always needed a plan B.
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I mean, as a wedding planner, you're always gonna.
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You know, something to lean on if something else goes wrong, right?
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So that's kind of how I lead my life.
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And my husband's pretty conservative in that sense too,
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so we kind of egg each other on.
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But you're right, it's, it's certainly a risk.
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But like with rock paper coin, if things went south, I
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still had bridal bliss, right?
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So I always kind of have something in my back pocket and kind of with
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bridal bliss, I didn't want to grow too quickly because we were getting
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inquiries that we had to turn down.
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But I knew.
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If I brought on a planner that wasn't adequately trained, like
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didn't have enough experience, if something goes wrong in that wedding,
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it's the company's reputation.
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So I'd rather not risk that and turn down the wedding and send it to, you
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know, a, a, a friender than than take it.
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So that's what I mean.
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Becca: And that's what makes you a good wedding planner as well, because
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you've always got a backup plan.
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And wedding planners always need to have a backup plan, and
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you've done the same in business.
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But I think that gives hope out there to people who do feel like they're more
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on the risk-adverse side of things, that that doesn't stop you moving
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forward and growing this great business and bringing new ideas to market.
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You can just do it in your own time and your own way.
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So I love that.
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So you found this gap in the market, and I know that this is something
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that other people might be thinking.
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Starting a software company, that seems like a huge deal.
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Like, like where do you even start with doing something like that?
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How do you even come up with the software?
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Do you get help with it?
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Like, what's the story there?
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Nora: I mean, honestly, it makes me laugh because I would not have considered
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myself a techie person before all this, and like we just knew what we wanted.
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We saw the gap because we were experiencing it firsthand, and
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that's why I think it works so well.
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Neither Elizabeth or an OR I are technical co-founders, so we honestly.
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Got really lucky in that we hired a development firm who was a recommendation
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from a friend of mine that had used them and they didn't take advantage
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of us, and they explained things in layman's terms and like when we were
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interviewing different development firms.
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They're speaking like a different language.
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We didn't even know what they're talking about.
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So you know, you fake it till you make it.
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You smile and nod and we're like writing down all these acronyms and different
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words that we've never heard of and we would just go back and Google and read
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and just like learn as much as we can.
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And still to this day, like.
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I know enough to be dangerous, but I'm certainly not fluent
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in coding or developers speak.
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And even, you know, our developers will laugh at me at times cause I'm like,
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can't you just make it do that real quick?
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And they're like, you clearly don't understand the way this this works.
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So it's really just partnering with the right people to help you get there.
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I mean, I guess.
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A life lesson in everything.
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Right.
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But we, we really lucked out and, you know, things certainly have not
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gone perfectly and there's a million things that I would've changed
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with either company, but it's just, it's turned into a much bigger
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thing than I think Elizabeth or I.
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Even expected, we expected it to be this like kind of side hustle where we
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would just develop it and it would run itself and maybe we'd have a developer
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update things every six months or so.
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Well, you know, now we have a team of 14.
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We have a full-time development team that's constantly
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updating, so we were very naive.
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It was very much a, a learning.
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Process.
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But yeah, we learned as we went.
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Becca: That's so good.
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I love that you started a tech company and you weren't necessarily technical.
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Again, there is hope for everyone out there.
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So if people are looking at this and thinking, I would love to
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diversify my business, I'd love to do something else myself.
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How do people know it's the right time to do that?
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How did you know it was the right time in your business to step one
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step away from your wedding planning business and to step into this tech?
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Nora: Well, for the need was there.
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The need was clearly there because as we were looking around for other
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options, we were talking to different wedding professionals and friends in
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the industry, in our region, and not, and everyone was giving us the same
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answer in that like, I don't know what this unicorn thing is you're describing,
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but when you find it, let us know.
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So we did our research and the only reason that Elizabeth and I were really able
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to dive in and develop it was because bridal bliss is in a very solid state.
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So we have an amazing team in place.
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Most of our employees have been there for several years.
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I mean, a couple have been there, one has been there for 10 years.
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One has been there for like 17 years.
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So it's a solid company is where we don't have to manage or micromanage anything.
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It it kind of.
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I don't wanna say it runs itself cuz it doesn't, but we could take a step back
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and have a more high level approach and let the team kind of handle the
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day-to-day so we could focus on rock paper coin and, and that's how it is today.
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I still own it a hundred percent, so I'm not planning weddings as much.
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I like to like dabble only because I love it so much and it lets me use rock
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paper coin firsthand as a client and as a planner, but, You know, the team
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has really taken the reins and proved themselves and and done really well.
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So I think the only way you can start something new is either if
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you stop what you were doing before completely, or it's in a such a great
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solid space with management and people that you trust running it, before
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you can kind of start something.
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Becca: Yeah, that's really helpful advice.
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So people are probably listening to this and thinking, wow, she
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came up with a great idea, she found a great gap in the market.
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I wish I could do something like that.
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Not the same, but something different.
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Like how can people go about finding these gaps, finding these ideas,
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rather than copying someone else, but coming up with something new.
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Any tips around that?
13:06
Nora: I honestly think it's just from your day-to-day experiences,
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like a lot of these companies, Work.
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Work because they're solving a person's problem that that founder actually had.
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So for us, it was solving the problem in that we as planners felt like
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we were out of the communication.
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So with rock paper coin, everyone can transact contracts and invoices
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and all of those things, but the planner can act on behalf of the.
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So if you or my client and a photographer sends you an invoice, you can give
13:39
me your planner permissions and I can go into the platform, sign your
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contract for you, make your payments for you, using your payment methods.
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All on your behalf.
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So the planner loves it cuz she's or he or they are up to date on everything.
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They can get it done instantly.
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The client loves it cuz they can sign up, hand over permissions and not do anything.
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And then the vendor loves it because everything is taken care of as soon as
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they send their contract and invoice.
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So, you know, our need was, there was nothing else out
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there that solved this problem.
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And that's, I think, what made us really jump on it because we knew
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it would make a big difference for Bridal Bliss, and we knew a lot of
14:20
planners shared our frustrations.
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Becca: So basically get out there.
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And talk to other people and find out if other people are struggling with the same
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things that you are in your business.
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And if you find something that's common between all of you and you
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can't find a good solution, why not go and set it up yourself?
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It's not as scary as it sounds.
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Is that right Nora?
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Nora: Sure.
14:43
I will say though, these two companies, bridal Bliss, I started on my own.
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I grew up myself and brought people on later Rock paper coin.
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I started with Elizabeth, so we co-founded it and it has been such
14:57
a difference to start a company on your own versus a co-founder.
15:03
If I could go back and do bridal bliss all over again, I would've
15:05
started it with somebody else.
15:07
Because at that time there were no mentors, there were no educational
15:11
groups for the wedding industry.
15:13
It was like you're thrown out to, you know, the sharks and, and if
15:17
you make it great, but nobody's gonna be there to help you.
15:21
And there, you know, so many trials and tribulations, not only in the wedding
15:25
industry, but building any business and.
15:28
It's hard for people to relate.
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Even like my husband, I'll, you know, tell him about something and you know,
15:34
he'll smile and nod, but he doesn't actually get it cuz he's not in the weeds.
15:38
Whereas Elizabeth, her and I are in the weeds.
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We both have our different roles.
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We can bounce ideas off each other and it's this roller coaster where
15:48
sometimes she's on the top and I'm on the bottom or vice versa.
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And we really bring each other back to level and it's.
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Just a, a really great experience, not only for us in our relationship, but
16:00
just as business people, and it's allowed us to do what we enjoy for the company.
16:06
Whereas like Bridal Bliss, I did everything, the pr, the marketing,
16:10
the sales on site, all of that.
16:13
Whereas with rock paper coin, I can just handle the portions of the
16:17
company that I am good at and I enjoy.
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And thankfully, Elizabeth, the things that she's good at and she
16:23
enjoys are kind of opposite to mind.
16:25
So it's a, it's a great team.
16:27
Becca: So it's about finding someone that compliments you.
16:30
If you're gonna work with a partner, you can't just choose anyone because you need
16:33
to go in it with your eyes wide open.
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Cuz you do hear of business partnerships going the other way, don't you?
16:38
Really Not well at all.
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Totally.
16:40
But it's finding the right person.
16:41
And I guess, how did you know that it was the right person?
16:44
Obviously you are now related, so you're kind of stuck together.
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So how did you know that it was right to go into business together?
16:50
Nora: You know, it's easier said than done.
16:52
I think Elizabeth and I got really lucky because our relationship
16:56
started as a working relationship.
16:58
So we knew that we worked well together.
17:00
And then after we became family, we were pretty good at kind of compartmentalizing,
17:07
you know, work didn't really come up a lot during family functions.
17:10
It's just like, this is family time, this is work time.
17:13
And sure there's some overlap, but our relationship started as
17:17
a business working relationship
17:20
and we'd worked together for so long at that point that we knew each
17:23
other's strengths and weaknesses and how the other person works.
17:28
The other thing that I think has really worked in our favor quite a bit is that
17:31
we're just in like similar stages of life.
17:35
We both have young kids.
17:37
We, we both have times where we have to rush out and take a kid to a doctor's
17:41
appointment or practice or, or whatever.
17:44
And so we trust each other wholeheartedly that we're gonna get our task done, even
17:50
if it's 11 o'clock at night or early in the morning so we can spend more time with
17:55
our family or our kids during the day.
17:57
So I think if you're in much different stages of life, it's a little bit harder
18:02
to give grace to the other person.
18:04
So, That's worked well for us as well.
18:06
Becca: Definitely.
18:07
Well, I'm glad that it's a positive story about a working relationship
18:11
that's always encouraging to hear.
18:14
Now, if people are sitting there and they're thinking,
18:15
right, I've got this great idea.
18:17
I'm gonna start exploring, are there any red flags they should be
18:21
looking for when they're starting to look into this opportunity?
18:24
Before they jump in, is there anything specific they should be watching out for?
18:28
Nora: Oh gosh, that's a really good question.
18:30
I think it's so dependent on.
18:33
The industry and like the scale of the company.
18:38
If it's gonna take a huge investment to start and it's gonna put you in debt,
18:43
you need to be really sure that this is an idea that is legitimate and it's
18:49
not just, you know, like a pipe dream.
18:51
You know, what do they say?
18:53
One out of every two businesses fail.
18:55
That's a pretty daunting percentage.
18:57
So to put everything.
19:00
Into this one business and you hear it all the time from these
19:04
successful business people.
19:05
They're like, well, I put my last cent into this company, and then
19:08
something happened and it was amazing.
19:11
Well, that doesn't always happen.
19:13
So that sounds so negative, Nancy, but I, being the conservative
19:18
person that I am when it comes to finances, I think making sure you're
19:22
like set up and have a backup plan.
19:26
Is important and it's not.
19:28
I, I was talking to somebody about this the other day and they're like, well,
19:30
if you have a backup plan, you're kind of like, like, it's okay if you fail.
19:34
It shouldn't be okay if you fail.
19:36
Well, I think it is okay if you fail because some companies.
19:42
Are not gonna work, and it's okay to call it quits before you've, you know,
19:46
wasted all this time and energy and money into something that might not be viable.
19:51
So, and don't let that bring you down because maybe the next one will
19:55
be viable and will be a better fit.
19:57
Sometimes it's timing, sometimes it's where the market is,
20:01
sometimes it's where the world is.
20:02
Obviously with Covid, we saw a lot of businesses that would've
20:06
been an amazing opportunity.
20:08
Turn the other way around and vice versa.
20:10
Becca: Okay, so it's doing your research, it's looking into it, it's thinking
20:13
it through, and always having a backup plan and not being too hard on yourself
20:18
if it doesn't go incredibly well.
20:21
Is that right?
20:22
Nora: Yeah.
20:22
I think planning is.
20:24
So important.
20:25
Research is key.
20:26
Having a business plan, having trusted advisors.
20:29
If you're doing it on your own, really review everything and play
20:33
devil's advocate, cuz they're probably things that you haven't thought of.
20:37
So surround yourself by other entrepreneurs, whether it's in the
20:42
space that you're trying to expand into or not, because you know,
20:46
Thoughts and opinions of others who have been there is kind of invaluable.
20:50
But at the same time, everyone's gonna try to give you advice.
20:53
So you're gonna have to kind of pick and choose what makes sense for you.
20:57
Becca: Absolutely.
20:57
Now, one pitfall I see people falling into, and I dunno if this
21:00
has been your experience as well, is that they do their research.
21:04
So they've gone out and they've spoken to the planners, and maybe you did this, and
21:07
everyone says, yeah, I want that software.
21:09
Yes, I want you to do this.
21:10
And then when it comes to actually buying, Sometimes it's crickets.
21:15
So how do you know whether someone's just saying that to be nice or whether it
21:20
is actually a profitable business idea?
21:23
Nora: You are very right.
21:24
That certainly did happen and does happen, but if there's nothing
21:28
else out there for people to.
21:31
To do if it's solving an actual problem, and you know that, and
21:35
you've proven that by your own experience or your research, there's
21:40
a reason that they're not signing up.
21:42
So maybe it's your pricing, maybe it's the overall business model.
21:46
Maybe they just feel like they're too busy or honestly, software.
21:51
In general is daunting for people, especially in the creative space
21:56
because people wanna focus on doing what they love, doing
21:58
flowers planning, photographing.
22:01
So like either shifting their software or starting a new platform
22:06
altogether is super daunting.
22:08
So like at rock paper coin, we do free white glove onboarding.
22:12
So we make it so easy, we do all the legwork for our new members, and
22:18
so, Making the, the experience of onboarding or just getting started
22:24
with whatever the new company is, making the barrier to entry really
22:29
low, I think makes a huge difference.
22:32
And also like for all those people that said they were gonna sign up and didn't.
22:37
Saying, you know, that's totally fine, but would you mind giving me some insight
22:42
into why or what we can do that's better?
22:45
What we could change?
22:46
Because the, the feedback you get from those people is truly invaluable.
22:50
So we try to, we talk to our members at Rock Paper Coin, whether they're.
22:56
They sign up or they're active.
22:58
We just want feedback and that's where all of our future development stems
23:02
from, is what our members like, what they don't like, what people that didn't
23:07
sign up, what it was missing for them.
23:09
So I think just keeping the lines of communication open and being also being.
23:15
Flexible and willing to change things is, is important because like when
23:20
Elizabeth and I started, we had this whole vision that is constantly
23:24
changing because what we thought might be awesome for this others did not.
23:30
So, you know, we had to be flexible.
23:33
Becca: And you have to listen to that feedback, which makes, again,
23:36
makes you a great business owner.
23:37
Because often when it's our idea and we wanna do something,
23:40
we're, we're blinded by that.
23:41
And we don't wanna listen to people's feedback when they say,
23:44
we don't really like that idea.
23:46
So like, how did you do that?
23:48
How did you realize, yeah, I need to just put aside this idea and
23:51
move it in a different direction.
23:52
Nora: I, Elizabeth and I are pretty open to that.
23:56
We're not, I mean, that's not true.
23:58
I can definitely be stubborn, but when it comes to like business, I just want it
24:02
to do well, and I want it to help people.
24:05
So if that means changing things, then so be it.
24:08
It's a much harder pill to swallow if we've spent months of
24:12
development time on a feature.
24:14
Isn't doing anything or bringing value to our members, but I
24:19
mean, that's part of business.
24:20
You're gonna do things right and you're gonna do things wrong, and hopefully
24:23
you learn from the things that you did wrong and move on from them because
24:27
I mean, that's truly how we grow.
24:28
We all make mistakes no matter how long you've been in the industry and how
24:32
high up you are in a business, everyone screws up and that's just a way of
24:37
life and you can't kick yourself over.
24:39
Becca: Absolutely.
24:40
Now Nora, you have done some incredible things.
24:42
You've got this amazing wedding planning business.
24:45
You've set up this software company.
24:47
What is next for Nora?
24:49
Nora: Oh my gosh.
24:51
Well, I'm hoping to not work so much.
24:55
Honestly.
24:56
I, I love weddings so much.
24:59
I love this industry.
25:00
I love the people and I love how the industry as a whole
25:05
is really being elevated.
25:07
Just by the people that are in it and how much everyone is
25:10
supporting and helping each other.
25:13
Like I was telling you before, like when I started, you did
25:16
not talk to your competitors.
25:17
You were just out there to get the business and get your job
25:21
done and move on to the next one.
25:22
Whereas now it's truly like a family and a support system where we're all here to,
25:28
to lift each other, lift the industry.
25:31
I, wanna do my part in that just in education and like helping
25:36
provide people with software to get their lives back a little bit.
25:40
Because as you know, people in the wedding industry work really, really hard.
25:45
It's long hours, it's weekends, it's evenings, and it takes time
25:50
away from people's families.
25:51
So to be able to.
25:54
Automate some of their tasks or just like make the backend easier is, is
25:58
kind of our mission at rock paper coin.
26:00
And then also save money because that's, that's great too.
26:03
But I have two young boys.
26:06
I am in the girliest industry of all time and I have two boys.
26:11
So I am wrapped up in sports and, and all those fun things.
26:15
So, you know, just trying to.
26:18
Working and making sure both companies are in a great place, but also being
26:23
a good, a good mom and wife, which sometimes happens and sometimes doesn't.
26:28
Becca: Yeah.
26:28
It's a never ending juggle.
26:30
I totally, totally get that.
26:34
Well, Nora, thank you so much for being on here and sharing with us today.
26:38
If you're listening to this out in the US then do go and check out.
26:41
Paper coin.
26:42
It's an incredible piece of software and I'll put more details about
26:45
that in the show notes if you are listening currently in the uk.
26:49
Sadly for us, it is not currently available to us in the uk, but
26:52
Nora, please bring it to the UK soon
26:56
Nora: just for you.
26:57
I will.
26:58
We definitely have plans to come out there, so I will certainly
27:01
share the news and we'd love to help all of your listeners.
27:05
Becca: Fabulous.
27:05
And if that does change, I will make sure that I update all of you
27:08
and I'll be bringing Nora back to talk to you more about the software.
27:12
However, Nora is also very kindly if you're listening in the UK, offered
27:15
to send you some more information about how you can do automation in
27:19
your business in different systems that we can use here in the uk.
27:22
So if you're interested in that, reach out to her via Instagram direct message
27:26
and she'll get that resource over to you.
27:28
Nora, what is your Instagram?
27:29
What's the best place for people to find?
27:31
Nora: It's just at rock paper coin.
27:32
Just send us a DM with your contact info and we'll send you a great cheat
27:37
sheet on automation, which should bring some more time back into your day.
27:41
Becca: Fabulous.
27:42
And we all need more time back in our day.
27:44
Nora, thank you so much for being on the podcast.
27:47
It's been a pleasure, and I'll speak to you again soon.
27:48
Thanks so much for having me.
27:50
Bye.
27:51
I love that chat with Nora.
27:52
It's always really inspiring to me when someone just jumps out of their
27:55
comfort zone and does something new, which is really, really successful.
27:59
Have a fabulous week.
28:00
I'll see you next time.