Latest / Podcasts By Donna Jodhan / Dining With Donna Podcast: Interview with Renée Rentmeester, Creator and Executive Producer, The Cooking Without Looking TV Show

Transcript

Dining With Donna Podcast: Interview with Renée Rentmeester, Creator and Executive Producer, The Cooking Without Looking TV Show · Podcasts By Donna Jodhan

• 0:08
  Podcast Commentator: Greetings. Donna J. Jodhan invites you to draw culinary inspiration from her podcast,
• 0:14
  Dining with Donna. Here, Donna serves up approachable step by step
• 0:19
  recipes, kitchen hacks, and meal themes.
• 0:22
  From quick weeknight dinners to comfort food classics and healthy meal prep with tips for
• 0:29
  cooking without relying on sight using sound,
• 0:32
  touch, aroma and smart tools.
• 0:35
  You'll build confidence, cook safely, and enjoy every bite.
• 0:41
  You can expect budget friendly ideas, seasonal specials,
• 0:45
  and the occasional guest chef.
• 0:48
  If this makes you hungry, grab your apron, subscribe and let's get
• 0:52
  cooking! One delicious, accessible meal at a time.
• 0:57
  Now let's dive in to today's episode.
• 1:04
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode.
• 1:09
  I am Donna Jodhan, a lifelong disability advocate and one who sees the world mainly
• 1:16
  through sound, touch, and a stubborn optimism.
• 1:21
  I am a law graduate, accessibility consultant,
• 1:25
  author, lifelong barrier buster who also happens to be blind.
• 1:32
  You may know me from a few headline moments, as in November 2010,
• 1:37
  I won the Landmark Charter case that forced the Canadian government to make its websites
• 1:44
  accessible to every Canadian, not just to sighted ones.
• 1:50
  And in June of 2019, I co-led the Accessible Canada Act with more than two dozen
• 1:58
  disability groups to turn equal access into federal law,
• 2:04
  and most recently, on June the 3rd, 2022, I was greatly humbled by Her Late
• 2:11
  Majesty's Platinum Jubilee Award for tireless commitment to removing barriers.
• 2:19
  When I'm not in a courtroom or a committee room or a pottery studio,
• 2:25
  you'll find me coaching kids with vision loss,
• 2:29
  producing audio mysteries, or helping tech companies to make their
• 2:35
  gadgets talk back in plain language.
• 2:39
  Everything I do circles one goal to turn accessibility from an afterthought into
• 2:46
  everyday practice. I invite you to think of this show as our shared workbench where
• 2:53
  policy meets lived experience and lived experience sparks fresh ideas.
• 3:01
  Now, before we jump into today's conversation,
• 3:05
  let me shine a spotlight on today's guest, a changemaker whose work is every bit as
• 3:13
  remarkable as the world that we are trying to treat.
• 3:18
  Renee Rentmeester, I'd like to welcome you to my Remarkable World commentary,
• 3:24
  and I'm very honored and privileged to have you be part of it.
• 3:28
  Renee Rentmeester: Well, thank you, Donna, I'm honored and privileged to be with you
• 3:32
  today. Thank you so much for having me.
• 3:35
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I can't wait to get started because I'd like to know a lot more about you.
• 3:40
  So, Renee, for listeners meeting you for the first time,
• 3:46
  how would you describe your personal journey from your early years in television and
• 3:55
  journalism to becoming the creator and executive producer of the Cooking Without
• 4:04
  Looking TV show.
• 4:07
  Renee Rentmeester: Well, okay, I guess we should sit back and relax here for a moment.
• 4:14
  Go for it. No, no, I'm just joking.
• 4:18
  It's it's a long story.
• 4:20
  It started when I was like, 17, and I wanted to be in TV and be a
• 4:25
  reporter and all that sort of stuff, and I did that.
• 4:29
  I got out of high school early and I would go half days and I'd work in a TV station in
• 4:37
  town, professional TV station.
• 4:39
  And, you know, I think no matter where we come from,
• 4:41
  we all know that once you have your foot in the door,
• 4:44
  no matter what you're doing that's a plus, because if they know you,
• 4:48
  they're probably willing to hire you along the way?
• 4:52
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right.
• 4:53
  Renee Rentmeester: So. So that did happen.
• 4:56
  I had some interesting stories along the way.
• 4:59
  I I was working as, like, an intern there, an unpaid intern,
• 5:03
  and then I got to be a receptionist, which I was paid.
• 5:07
  And then I got to be an assistant in the newsroom.
• 5:11
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh.
• 5:12
  Renee Rentmeester: So then I I ended up being a reporter at a TV radio station.
• 5:17
  I'm. I'm from. I was born and raised in green Bay,
• 5:20
  Wisconsin, so I I got to be a reporter and a an editor over in Eau Claire,
• 5:30
  Wisconsin during college professional station.
• 5:34
  And then after that, I worked in Miami for 13 years for CBS.
• 5:41
  I did everything, you know, I was everything from the janitor to the
• 5:45
  general manager, and I, I was press and public relations manager.
• 5:51
  I was an advertising and PR copywriter.
• 5:56
  I was news assignment editor associate news producer,
• 6:01
  pretty much everything, you know.
• 6:03
  And then I decided to I decided to leave after 13 years,
• 6:09
  because I just thought I could do more on my own.
• 6:12
  You know, sometimes there's only so far you can go when you're working for someone else.
• 6:18
  So I started my own advertising and media relations company.
• 6:25
  And then I thought, well, I was always sitting on boards of non-profits
• 6:30
  because, you know, they get they get free advertising if you're sitting on their board.
• 6:35
  Right?
• 6:35
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right.
• 6:37
  Renee Rentmeester: So I I, I wanted to leave, like, a legacy.
• 6:42
  I wanted to do something different from everyone else.
• 6:46
  So I thought of blindness, and I just thought,
• 6:53
  well, you know, I don't know any blind people.
• 6:57
  That's what I thought to myself. I don't know any blind people. And it seems to me that
• 7:01
  there's this whole group of people that sort of is shoved off to the side in a manner of
• 7:07
  speaking. Like, you know, so many people don't know blind people.
• 7:13
  And I think that our thinking was still like somewhere in the 1940s or 1950s.
• 7:19
  And so my background in TV, I thought, well,
• 7:24
  you know, if you show blind people doing everyday things and just being people and not
• 7:30
  doing anything from any different from anyone else,
• 7:33
  just in a different manner, you know, this will this will,
• 7:37
  like help people who are blind gain employment and people will get to know them.
• 7:43
  And they wouldn't feel awkward around a person who's blind.
• 7:47
  And so I did. I, I was I ended up developing cooking without looking one piece at a
• 7:57
  time. I, I met a chef who was blind, and he was a professor of blind professor
• 8:05
  over at Florida International University, which is a school of hospitality.
• 8:11
  And so then I I talked to some of my friends.
• 8:14
  I was on the board of National Academy of Arts and Sciences,
• 8:18
  and, and one of them was a program director at one of the local TV stations,
• 8:22
  a PBS station. And so I I talked to him and he thought it was a great idea,
• 8:30
  but I had to get some money to, like, raise money to do the pilot.
• 8:35
  So then I did the pilot and we ended up it was it was a funny story because he he
• 8:44
  loved loved the show or the idea of the show so much,
• 8:48
  but he was afraid of what his general manager would say because he said,
• 8:52
  well, I think he would be worried that people would feel sad seeing blind people.
• 8:57
  I go, you know me, I go, I don't do anything for sadness.
• 9:00
  I it's all about having fun, you know you know,
• 9:05
  we have a funny we have a funny thought, I guess,
• 9:08
  about people who are blind or anyone with any sort of a disability,
• 9:12
  even I it hit me, like I said.
• 9:14
  Well, cooking without looking, I go, does that offend you?
• 9:18
  Like is that too silly or something.
• 9:21
  And he said, no I like it.
• 9:24
  Okay. So he he snuck the show on the air.
• 9:29
  The general manager of course caught it and he loved it.
• 9:33
  And he became like our biggest cheerleader.
• 9:35
  He would help walk people into the studio over the cords and such.
• 9:40
  So then after a while, after several years there was a recession and
• 9:49
  we had a hard time getting sponsors and we had to pay for our production.
• 9:53
  So what we did was we went to we went to many food festivals in South Florida,
• 10:00
  and we showed and people were just like, freak out.
• 10:03
  They get so excited to watch.
• 10:05
  Like, there were groups and groups of people.
• 10:07
  You would have thought that this was some kind of a circus or something.
• 10:11
  And they loved it and they were mesmerized.
• 10:13
  They were just mesmerized and you know, it was it was just really nice to see.
• 10:20
  And then we did a lot of those.
• 10:22
  And I still have one of the hosts, one of the hosts that we've had for like 25
• 10:29
  years is still with us.
• 10:31
  And then we had one for 24 and she just left for personal reasons.
• 10:37
  But so we have a new person.
• 10:39
  But she had been with us for a while.
• 10:41
  Kind of like on the sidelines.
• 10:43
  And when the pandemic came, she said to me, well,
• 10:47
  why don't you use zoom?
• 10:48
  And I go, okay, well, let's do that.
• 10:52
  So her name is Sylvia Stinson Perez.
• 10:56
  And the other host is Alan Preston.
• 10:59
  And so I started using zoom, and, you know, it opened up the whole world
• 11:05
  literally and figuratively, because we were reaching people from around
• 11:10
  the world. I could have never done that because it's like,
• 11:13
  that's not in our budget at all.
• 11:15
  So that's pretty much how we came this far.
• 11:17
  And in 2018, I started the podcast as well.
• 11:23
  Wow.
• 11:24
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I don't know what to say.
• 11:26
  You you're very open about the fact that you are not blind yourself.
• 11:33
  No I'm not. Yeah. So what first drew you to blindness advocacy.
• 11:40
  And what convinced you that this was the cause that you wanted to dedicate your
• 11:48
  platform to?
• 11:50
  Renee Rentmeester: Well, you know it's just basic humanity for me.
• 11:56
  You know, I'm a person who believes that I, you know,
• 12:00
  we talk about inclusion and everything, and sometimes people, you know, that just
• 12:03
  flies over people's heads.
• 12:04
  So, yeah, I said that life is a party, and I'm inviting everyone to the party.
• 12:11
  You know, no one's going to be left out.
• 12:13
  I, I started off by doing the research for blind children,
• 12:19
  but then I figured after the research, most,
• 12:23
  most people are not born blind in the United States or most of the world.
• 12:28
  So then I thought, well, you know, macular degeneration with the baby
• 12:32
  boomers and everything, but so that's that's how we did that.
• 12:38
  That's how I started to focus on just anyone.
• 12:42
  And, you know, the stereotype is normally that blindness is usually older people.
• 12:46
  But as I look at all of our shows and podcasts,
• 12:49
  most of them are very young people.
• 12:51
  Yes, we've even had children on.
• 12:54
  And so it's just for me, it's just basic humanity.
• 12:57
  I can't stand to see a whole group of people being left out.
• 13:01
  I can't stand one person being left out.
• 13:03
  I'm like, when I was a little girl on the playground,
• 13:06
  I if I saw someone just sitting by themselves,
• 13:09
  I'd always go get them and see if we could play together or sit and talk or something
• 13:14
  because I just, I don't like.
• 13:16
  It's so sad to me to see someone just be left out.
• 13:19
  So that's how I chose it.
• 13:24
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now, when you were researching online communities in the early days,
• 13:31
  okay, you noticed how often blind people were talking about cooking.
• 13:39
  What? What did you see in those conversations that told you,
• 13:46
  quote. This never needs to become a show.
• 13:52
  Renee Rentmeester: Well you know, everyone was just talking about cooking and their tips and how they
• 14:00
  would do things, and then they'd ask questions of another blind person.
• 14:05
  And I thought it was perfect because it's sort of a fun way to tackle a difficult
• 14:11
  subject. You know, if I were to sit down and just do a community affairs show,
• 14:16
  like from my old station, you know, that's a little that's a little bit
• 14:21
  of a snore, you know?
• 14:23
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.
• 14:24
  Renee Rentmeester: But, you know, this is sort of like when you come to my kitchen and we can sit and talk
• 14:30
  and we cook and we talk about all sorts of things,
• 14:33
  and, you know, about life and about the blindness and,
• 14:37
  and we make it very free for people to talk about their blindness.
• 14:41
  And so that, you know, we can all understand it.
• 14:44
  So that's that's how I did that.
• 14:46
  It was very engaging. And it's also you know,
• 14:50
  afterwards, you know, sometimes you think of something and then
• 14:52
  afterwards you keep adding on to it the reason you did it.
• 14:56
  Well, also, cooking is something we all need to do.
• 14:59
  I mean, like we need to eat.
• 15:02
  So definitely if you want to eat, you know, you need to cook.
• 15:08
  And my father always used to say, well, you know what?
• 15:10
  If you can read a cookbook or, you know, you can find a recipe,
• 15:14
  you can cook, you know, it's, you know, we don't have to be like,
• 15:18
  any competition here. We're not any, any sort of chef on TV.
• 15:24
  I like the term home chef.
• 15:25
  I saw that somewhere. I thought, yeah, I like this,
• 15:28
  but but most of the people and many of the people actually,
• 15:31
  that we have are actually professional blind chefs or actually professional chefs who
• 15:37
  happen to be blind.
• 15:39
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay, okay.
• 15:41
  Renee Rentmeester: Yeah, yeah. So that's we just like to, to take out these stereotypes,
• 15:46
  you know, one at a time and, and just keep them out of there because no
• 15:50
  one learns and no one learns.
• 15:53
  If you just keep those stereotypes in it, it blocks the humanity of each of us.
• 15:59
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I'm not a professional chef, but I love to cook,
• 16:02
  I love to eat. And I just think that what you're doing is awesome.
• 16:07
  Absolutely awesome.
• 16:09
  Renee Rentmeester: Thank you. Donna. Thank you.
• 16:11
  And you can you can be on our show.
• 16:13
  We'd love to have you.
• 16:15
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I'd love to be there. So take me back to the first major step finding a blind chef in
• 16:25
  Miami and filming a pilot for P persons with gist who are blind.
• 16:33
  What were the first biggest challenges and the biggest surprises when you tried to bring
• 16:42
  this concept to life on camera?
• 16:46
  Renee Rentmeester: Okay, well, starting with I was I was going to talk to my friends and colleagues on the
• 16:53
  National Academy of the blind, and I knew one of the gentlemen had glaucoma.
• 16:58
  Right. So when I told him about it, he goes,
• 17:00
  oh, no, that'll never work.
• 17:02
  I'm like.
• 17:03
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: No.
• 17:04
  Renee Rentmeester: You know what, Donna? If you tell me that something will never work,
• 17:07
  you better believe I'm going to make it work.
• 17:10
  So, yeah, I don't get I don't get turned away too often,
• 17:15
  you know? I just keep working.
• 17:17
  So then we To find that blind chef was actually sort of serendipitous because I
• 17:28
  I was living in a building in Miami on the Bay and the Bay in Miami,
• 17:34
  and one of the young men who also lived there happened to be going to the School of
• 17:41
  Hospitality. And so we were, you know, we were all getting together one
• 17:46
  night and I asked him and I said, do you know a blind chef?
• 17:50
  He goes, yeah. And he named the professor right away.
• 17:53
  And I said, oh, wow, I'd love to talk with him.
• 17:58
  So I just, you know, working in news, you get used to like just calling people out
• 18:04
  of the blue. I know you, you you do that too,
• 18:07
  I'm sure. And it's like he called out of the blue.
• 18:10
  You act like you know them forever. And and.
• 18:13
  Hey, I'd love to talk to you.
• 18:14
  I've got this idea. And it turned out that he had always liked to do something like that,
• 18:19
  too. So he he gave me the first donation for the production.
• 18:25
  Okay, but you know what?
• 18:28
  We had our first meeting on nine over 11 on 2001.
• 18:32
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh my God.
• 18:34
  Renee Rentmeester: Yeah. And and it was just a weird thing because we all,
• 18:38
  like, got up and we started watching, watching the planes hit the buildings.
• 18:43
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes, yes.
• 18:44
  Renee Rentmeester: And to see everyone's reaction was just like,
• 18:48
  that was wild. I think one man thought he was watching a movie and he started laughing.
• 18:53
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: And.
• 18:53
  Renee Rentmeester: And they were just like odd things going on.
• 18:55
  But after that. So I had the first bunch of money.
• 19:01
  Then he, he told me about another man who actually,
• 19:05
  to this day still owns a store with accessible equipment.
• 19:11
  And so he, he gave me another one and then an ophthalmologist who sort of thinks outside of
• 19:18
  the box, which is pretty much what I needed at that point.
• 19:22
  He he has some special he specializes in macular degeneration.
• 19:26
  And he's created this these glasses that help you look through your macula.
• 19:31
  You know, sometimes your macula is wrecked, so pieces of it are still good.
• 19:35
  So he teaches you how to look out of the good part of your macula.
• 19:39
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Wow.
• 19:40
  Renee Rentmeester: So with those three, I found I found a someone to shoot the show,
• 19:50
  which wasn't extremely hard for me because since I was working in that business in
• 19:53
  Miami, you know who's good, who's not, you know,
• 19:56
  and and who would be who would be fair?
• 19:59
  So we shot it. And then that's when after we shot it.
• 20:03
  Okay. So it got to the end of the shooting, right?
• 20:06
  We had a live studio audience.
• 20:08
  We were in a fancy fancy appliance store, which the appliances were,
• 20:16
  like thousands of dollars, you know, the fanciest ones.
• 20:20
  You know, you could barbecue whatever you want,
• 20:23
  do whatever you want. And he.
• 20:26
  So what this chef did was he had macular degeneration.
• 20:31
  So what happened was he went to reach for a white cloth.
• 20:40
  A white cloth to wipe his hands.
• 20:42
  Yeah, he actually stuck his hand in a bowl of whipped cream.
• 20:46
  Right. Oh.
• 20:48
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
• 20:49
  Renee Rentmeester: So then. So then you know, everyone laughs and I keep things in.
• 20:53
  And sometimes there were shows that I, I actually just had one little section like
• 20:57
  the bloopers because people love that, you know.
• 20:59
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.
• 21:00
  Renee Rentmeester: And and so then as I was walking out of the room,
• 21:04
  this little old lady, she was like in her 70s and she said,
• 21:07
  well, actually, I'm not that far away from that.
• 21:10
  But at the time, she seemed older to me.
• 21:13
  And she she said, she goes, you know, I started going blind about six
• 21:20
  months ago.
• 21:21
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, no.
• 21:23
  Renee Rentmeester: Yeah, and I haven't been in the kitchen since.
• 21:26
  Because she was afraid.
• 21:28
  Yeah. And then she said.
• 21:31
  But, you know, seeing that professional chef make a mistake,
• 21:35
  she goes, that gave me all the courage to get back in the kitchen again.
• 21:40
  That's good. And that's when I knew that. Yeah, this this really did have some sort of
• 21:45
  a purpose, because, you know, it takes the fear away.
• 21:48
  I think that's the biggest thing people need to get over is the fear of doing it all over
• 21:52
  again.
• 21:54
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: It is. It is now. Your mission is often described as changing the way we see
• 22:02
  blindness. Okay. What does that mean to you today?
• 22:10
  And how do you keep that mission front and center in every episode?
• 22:18
  Tell me.
• 22:19
  Renee Rentmeester: Oh, that's a good question.
• 22:22
  Well, it's always a constant thought.
• 22:24
  Like I mentioned before, it's a constant thought that I,
• 22:26
  I'm always shying away from the stereotypes.
• 22:31
  Yes. And and people always when I say what we do,
• 22:35
  they'll always say, oh, so you teach blind people?
• 22:38
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: No, no.
• 22:39
  Renee Rentmeester: People teach us.
• 22:41
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.
• 22:42
  Renee Rentmeester: And and I guess changing the way we see blindness is sort of my clever,
• 22:48
  semi clever little way of showing the world what real blind people's lives are
• 22:58
  like without all the stereotypes and and all the old thoughts stuck in there.
• 23:06
  And so people have these thoughts like, oh, you know,
• 23:10
  blind people are this or blind people are that,
• 23:13
  or blind people can do this and blind people can't do that.
• 23:16
  And so I just want to change the way that we,
• 23:20
  we can say, perceive blindness.
• 23:22
  But then that wasn't as cute as the other way,
• 23:24
  so I left it. But that's that's basically it just,
• 23:29
  you know, let people understand what a real blind person is like,
• 23:34
  which isn't really a whole lot different from what any of us are like.
• 23:39
  It's just that our challenges are different.
• 23:43
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I just think the world of this, I just think,
• 23:45
  I don't know what to say.
• 23:46
  I'm just blown apart here.
• 23:49
  Oh.
• 23:50
  Renee Rentmeester: Oh thank you Donna, thanks a lot.
• 23:52
  You know, sometimes you get you get like a little wrapped in your head and you think,
• 23:56
  oh, no one's going to care.
• 23:57
  You know, why do I keep doing this?
• 23:59
  But then something good happens.
• 24:01
  Like, you ask to talk to me, and they're like,
• 24:03
  yeah, sure, I'll do it.
• 24:05
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Well, as a blind host myself, I'm always thinking about what makes cooking
• 24:12
  instruction truly accessible.
• 24:16
  What were your earliest decisions about format so that the,
• 24:23
  you know, the show wouldn't just be about blind cooks,
• 24:28
  but would also be usable and empowering for blind viewers.
• 24:36
  Renee Rentmeester: Right. So what? I always make it a point to say is that people always want to say that
• 24:43
  we're a show for blind people, but no, we're a show featuring people who are
• 24:49
  blind. Wow. Yeah, I twist that up a little, and I just
• 25:00
  I think that I always always make sure that people describe
• 25:10
  exactly what they're doing because it's like.
• 25:13
  It's like a audio description, but it's sort of like a an easy version of
• 25:19
  it. Like you tell us what you're doing and so it widens the audience.
• 25:24
  I always make it so that it's not for blind people,
• 25:27
  it's for everyone. I use some of our own tips all the time.
• 25:31
  I've. I've been amazed at some of the great tips I found out I love.
• 25:35
  I love the thought that like, you know, your stuff is done when you can
• 25:39
  smell it. Like that was like, wow, that was a mind blower to me.
• 25:44
  I used it all the time.
• 25:46
  Or how to cut an onion or an apple, you know,
• 25:48
  you cut it in half and most of it seems like really common sense.
• 25:51
  But if you get used to doing something an old fashioned way,
• 25:56
  sometimes the common sense just goes out the window,
• 25:58
  right?
• 25:59
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.
• 26:00
  Renee Rentmeester: So basically I just make sure that people describe exactly what they're doing.
• 26:08
  We usually start off by talking about your journey with blindness and,
• 26:12
  you know, it opens it up to, you know, so they feel comfortable talking
• 26:16
  about their blindness.
• 26:18
  Somebody described us as a safe place to be that they,
• 26:23
  you know, they always like to be with us because it's a safe place.
• 26:27
  You know, they don't feel like any that they have to do something special or be something
• 26:32
  special. They can just be themselves.
• 26:36
  And so that's, that's what I'm proud of.
• 26:38
  When someone told me that who's been on the show a couple of times,
• 26:42
  I go, oh that's, that's really nice.
• 26:44
  We've also been described as friendly and fun.
• 26:48
  And that's what I do when we start off, we get on,
• 26:52
  we get online a little early, like, well, a lot early 30 minutes.
• 26:56
  And just so that we can kind of talk to each other and laugh and,
• 27:02
  you know, all these things just to relax a little because sometimes these things can
• 27:07
  just get so stiff. And I understand that most people have never been on TV or doing these
• 27:13
  presentations in their life.
• 27:15
  And and so, you know, I like to make them relax.
• 27:18
  And I tell them, you know, it's only TV and no one's going to die here
• 27:23
  today. So I just I just like having people have fun and,
• 27:30
  and and feeling like they have a stage to stand on for themselves.
• 27:38
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You know, that is absolutely true.
• 27:40
  Having fun is the important thing in life.
• 27:43
  You know, it's not all about the bad news that you hear every day.
• 27:47
  It's about, you know, we we are here on earth to do something
• 27:51
  special. And I think for you, it's something very special.
• 27:54
  It's it's great. You know I don't know what to say.
• 28:00
  I'm just blown out of my shoes here.
• 28:05
  Now, the show is known for describing steps in detail and reading recipes aloud.
• 28:14
  Right. How do you coach guests and hosts to communicate in a way that respects blind
• 28:24
  audiences and doesn't rely on?
• 28:28
  Watch this or you can see this.
• 28:33
  How do you do that?
• 28:36
  Renee Rentmeester: Well, you know, everybody on the show is blind or visually impaired.
• 28:39
  Even the two hosts, Alan Preston and still Sylvia Stinson Perez.
• 28:46
  They're both blind as well.
• 28:47
  Okay. And so. But I write a script, so I write a script in 36 point because they
• 28:53
  have a little bit of sight left.
• 28:56
  Sylvia's got retinitis pigmentosa and has had something from birth as well.
• 29:05
  And so they have he doesn't have color perception.
• 29:09
  But so they, they, they go off of a script, but it's a loosely written script so that
• 29:15
  they can put their own thoughts and words into.
• 29:17
  It's almost like a glorified outline and the I always tell the people who are presenting
• 29:26
  the recipe to remember to describe everything you're doing,
• 29:31
  you know, because even if you're excited, excited or blind,
• 29:36
  you know, like, oftentimes I don't just sit in front of the TV and look at it.
• 29:40
  Yes, I would drive myself up the wall if I did that,
• 29:45
  but I just think that it's a matter of just telling them I don't really have to coach a
• 29:53
  lot. Sometimes if I detect that someone's a little nervous,
• 29:57
  I'll joke around with them.
• 29:59
  I'll say something to tease them or something.
• 30:03
  But No, it's just a matter of remembering that we're all human,
• 30:08
  right? If we sit and we just stop on blindness or on sightedness,
• 30:14
  you know, you've lost us.
• 30:16
  You've lost everybody.
• 30:17
  But if you if you just work on the human side of it and and you come off fine,
• 30:26
  I don't really have to do a lot of coaching.
• 30:29
  I've never. I have a I have a rule that I don't edit the show because.
• 30:37
  Yeah, if I, if I edit the show, people will think,
• 30:40
  oh, she just took the mistakes out.
• 30:43
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:44
  Renee Rentmeester: And I don't ever show except because I make mistakes every once in a while.
• 30:50
  Right? And I edit my mistake.
• 30:52
  And it's usually like clicking the start off and I'll forget to hit the record.
• 30:56
  So I'll, I'll edit a mistake of mine out.
• 31:00
  But no, the everything else just goes on as it is.
• 31:06
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Ain't that amazing? And you admit it.
• 31:10
  Renee Rentmeester: Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, we're all human, right?
• 31:13
  It's funny, because Sylvia will.
• 31:16
  The last couple of times. I don't know why, but I forgot to start the start it.
• 31:21
  I mean, start the record part of it, right?
• 31:24
  I think sometimes I get caught up in talking to people and whatever's going on,
• 31:28
  blah, blah, blah, blah. And then.
• 31:30
  And she's like, Renee.
• 31:32
  I'm like, oh, I forgot.
• 31:33
  So then we just start over again.
• 31:35
  But it's not. It's usually like only like a sentence in and it's because now,
• 31:40
  see, this is a blind tip.
• 31:42
  She notices that she doesn't hear the little click for the record.
• 31:46
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right. Right, right. Okay, now I love sensory cooking,
• 31:52
  listening, feeling, smelling and touching.
• 31:57
  Cuz. Right, right beyond sight.
• 32:01
  How does cooking without looking intentionally teach sensory techniques?
• 32:09
  And what are a few of these examples that really changed how people cook?
• 32:19
  Renee Rentmeester: Well, you know, we'll talk about whether something is thickening or,
• 32:25
  you know, like, like I mentioned before, how something smells that,
• 32:30
  you know, when it's done, you know, it smells, which is like that was
• 32:33
  that was cataclysmic for me.
• 32:37
  Also, let's see what else.
• 32:40
  Usually we'll talk about what it smells like and how something is and,
• 32:45
  and I know that one of the things off the top of my head was a couple of shows ago.
• 32:51
  We had a man who had gone totally blind about ten years ago,
• 32:57
  and he was making meatloaf, and he was showing us how the meatloaf should
• 33:03
  feel and and how it should you know.
• 33:08
  Yeah. How thick it should be if it just he picks up a glop and it just glops in a
• 33:14
  certain manner.
• 33:15
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, okay.
• 33:17
  Renee Rentmeester: And and so he showed us that I know, and people just have their own way of of
• 33:23
  whatever they're showing us.
• 33:25
  There was a lady who made a pumpkin roll and a pumpkin roll.
• 33:31
  She was teaching us because, like, that one was frightening for me because
• 33:35
  I can't even imagine to do that.
• 33:36
  Because I could just see me breaking that cake all along the way.
• 33:40
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right. Yeah.
• 33:42
  Renee Rentmeester: And and she was saying, well, you have to have it hot.
• 33:44
  You just take it right out of the oven and you start rolling and it's like,
• 33:49
  wow, that was another cataclysmic thought.
• 33:52
  And and so she said to keep it hot and you know,
• 33:58
  the stirring. You want to talk about the thickness of everything,
• 34:01
  how the thickness feels.
• 34:03
  Because, you know. Oh, in hamburger, you know,
• 34:06
  a lot of people wonder how to do the hamburger.
• 34:09
  And basically you take.
• 34:10
  I'm I'm always very simple.
• 34:12
  You can take, like a wooden spoon and you can feel the difference between the cooked and
• 34:16
  the uncooked hamburger.
• 34:18
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.
• 34:19
  Renee Rentmeester: And there was another one that they, they wanted to figure out if a roast was done
• 34:26
  or not. So he he took a oh, my God, a big butcher knife,
• 34:31
  sliced it. This was this was our that first chef,
• 34:35
  right. He took a big butcher knife, sliced a little bit out of it,
• 34:39
  and then touched the knife to his tongue, which I don't recommend.
• 34:43
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: No.
• 34:44
  Renee Rentmeester: And just to see if it was cold or not.
• 34:47
  It's still cool, you know.
• 34:48
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay, okay.
• 34:50
  Renee Rentmeester: But, you know, I'm not going to do that one.
• 34:52
  And and let's see what there have been a whole bunch of them,
• 34:57
  but it's just each show is different depending on on,
• 35:00
  you know, what they're making.
• 35:02
  We had a chef Rick on last month, and he was making like,
• 35:11
  sort of like a Puerto Rican pinchos the shish kebabs.
• 35:15
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right?
• 35:15
  Renee Rentmeester: He's from the Bronx. So he he called it the Bronx.
• 35:19
  Shish kebab, something like that.
• 35:21
  And he was going along telling us how it was smelling in the house and everything.
• 35:28
  Yeah, that that just sounded so good.
• 35:30
  You know, certain spices.
• 35:32
  You don't even have to.
• 35:33
  If someone tells you that it smells like that,
• 35:35
  you don't even have to be in that same kitchen.
• 35:37
  You can just understand it at any rate.
• 35:42
  So that's basically it.
• 35:43
  You know, it just depends on the recipe.
• 35:45
  And if you're you know, what you're doing with it stirring,
• 35:50
  cutting, smelling. You know we just talk about those.
• 35:55
  And I leave it up to the the person who's doing the presenting.
• 35:58
  I pretty much let them I don't tell them how to do things.
• 36:03
  You know, the only thing we do is in the very beginning,
• 36:05
  like where to stand and how to have the light and whatever,
• 36:09
  but it's it's all up to them and, and all of the presentations have been great.
• 36:15
  Like I say, I haven't edited any out at all.
• 36:21
  It's just it's just them.
• 36:23
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You might have to edit mine if I ever appeared on no.
• 36:27
  Renee Rentmeester: No, no. But like I always say, we like to keep it authentic,
• 36:31
  you know, because we all make mistakes.
• 36:33
  In fact, I teach a little class it's called Blind United Interest Group,
• 36:39
  and the organization is Blind United.
• 36:42
  I'm on the board of that in Los Angeles, and and I cook.
• 36:47
  In fact, I did this this week.
• 36:49
  Tuesday. And I always bring up the mistakes I make because sometimes people will think,
• 36:56
  well, you know, I make this mistake.
• 36:58
  It's because I'm blind.
• 36:59
  It's like, no, I make mistakes too.
• 37:03
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah, we all make mistakes.
• 37:05
  Renee Rentmeester: Yeah, sometimes. But the mistake sometimes for a person who's blind or with another
• 37:09
  disability, they think that that's the stone or the mountain that they can't climb.
• 37:15
  And it's like, no, you just got to get over it.
• 37:17
  And. And I'll tell people.
• 37:18
  Substitutes. I think substitutes are a great thing because,
• 37:21
  you know, if you're blind, you just can't dash out to your car and hit
• 37:25
  the store and go and buy something.
• 37:28
  So even for me, I love substitutes.
• 37:31
  Today I have made a recipe.
• 37:33
  I made crab cakes and yeah, I didn't have time.
• 37:37
  And so I went online to see what a substitute would be.
• 37:42
  And they had dill and they had Basil.
• 37:44
  I'm like, okay, well I've got both of those, so I'll use one of those.
• 37:47
  I ended up using dill.
• 37:51
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You know, I learned to cook like I was born with little or no vision.
• 37:55
  And I learned to cook with my granny and my mom.
• 37:58
  Then I got a whole whack of vision through a cornea transplant,
• 38:02
  and mom continued to coach me, but on the phone because I left home when I
• 38:06
  was pretty young. So we kept in touch all the time,
• 38:09
  and she coached me on the phone.
• 38:11
  And then I lost the vision about 15 years ago.
• 38:15
  So I've gone through different stages of learning to cook and adapt and things like
• 38:19
  that. But You have featured adaptive tools like talking thermometers,
• 38:28
  barcode readers, and Braille markings on stove dials.
• 38:34
  Okay. In your view, which tools have been the biggest game changers for independence in the
• 38:43
  kitchen and why?
• 38:45
  Renee Rentmeester: You know what? I think that the modern one is the air fryer.
• 38:52
  Yeah. Blind people who are blind and love to cook have been getting air fryers in all over
• 39:00
  the place. We've had like 2 or 3 shows with air fryers on because it goes real fast.
• 39:05
  You can't burn your. Well, I guess you could try to burn yourself.
• 39:08
  You don't really burn yourself.
• 39:10
  And you know, a lot of people who are blind have some health issues.
• 39:15
  So. Yeah, it's it's good for that way.
• 39:17
  You know, it's a little healthier.
• 39:19
  So I see it as that. Not even the the bump dots,
• 39:22
  little dots on there, the high marks.
• 39:26
  I think that's that air fryer is probably the most popular right now.
• 39:34
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Really?
• 39:35
  Renee Rentmeester: Yeah. Yeah, I would say so.
• 39:36
  Yes. And we've had talking microwaves.
• 39:40
  We've got a whole show with a talking microwave and a where also where you use the,
• 39:46
  the bar code and it sets the time.
• 39:50
  And so that was pretty cool because he would just tell Alexa and Alexa would set the time
• 39:58
  on it from the bar code.
• 40:01
  And that's probably one of our most popular shows.
• 40:06
  There are so many things.
• 40:08
  And, you know, I like to also focus on the simple because sometimes we don't all have
• 40:13
  the funds to go run out and get some special things,
• 40:16
  you know? So I like to keep things simple and sometimes even just a fork to mix things up
• 40:24
  works really, really well.
• 40:26
  And and it doesn't take a lot of cleanup after that.
• 40:32
  Let's see, we, we when I'm online, a lot of times I'll see people that have an
• 40:38
  issue. And one of our biggest issues the last week was how to separate an egg.
• 40:45
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, yes. Tell me.
• 40:48
  Renee Rentmeester: Well, there are there are little things that you can get on Amazon and the blind kitchen,
• 40:54
  that's a that's another group that.
• 40:56
  Oh, yeah. She was actually on our show.
• 41:00
  We did a, we did a competition blind versus sighted,
• 41:04
  and we, we the her, her actually, her cooking professor actually blindfolded
• 41:13
  himself, and he did it.
• 41:14
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay. Okay.
• 41:16
  Renee Rentmeester: So anyway, she she has a lot of equipment like that,
• 41:20
  and she had a pie cutter, which was amazing.
• 41:24
  Which is another one of those, like, you know what?
• 41:26
  I don't care if I'm blind or sighted.
• 41:29
  I would love that, too, because I'm not necessarily the best pie
• 41:32
  cutter. I don't know if anyone is, but it's actually like a circle and put the
• 41:41
  circle and then each the little triangles are already built in there,
• 41:45
  and it's made out of like, I think it's stainless steel.
• 41:48
  I'm not certain, but it looks like that.
• 41:50
  And you can just put that down on your pie and it cuts it automatically because of the
• 41:57
  stainless steel.
• 41:59
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh.
• 42:00
  Renee Rentmeester: Okay.
• 42:02
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: What about the the the talking toaster oven?
• 42:07
  Have you featured that at all?
• 42:12
  Renee Rentmeester: I don't I don't remember specifically the talking toaster oven,
• 42:16
  but I do love these appliances that talk.
• 42:19
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.
• 42:20
  Renee Rentmeester: I think that's so cool.
• 42:21
  And the price has come down on a lot of them.
• 42:24
  You know, in the first, when we first got started,
• 42:27
  like 25 years ago, they were like over $300.
• 42:30
  And now I think you can go to Best Buy for not a lot of money.
• 42:35
  Probably like I haven't looked recently, but the last time I looked it was like around
• 42:40
  $80, which is like a huge jump.
• 42:43
  It's probably even less now, so.
• 42:48
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I guess there are a lot of talking appliances out there that you could probably lose
• 42:53
  yourself with. I mean, I would.
• 42:56
  I love gadgets, so I often get into trouble by buying something I really shouldn't be
• 43:02
  buying. But you know, they're fun.
• 43:06
  They're fun. You know?
• 43:07
  And I think like when my nephews and nieces see these things,
• 43:11
  they say, but Auntie Donna, you know, why do these things talk?
• 43:14
  I want to borrow this.
• 43:16
  Oh, God. Please, no. Put it down.
• 43:18
  You know. No.
• 43:20
  Renee Rentmeester: Well, it is sort of fun.
• 43:22
  And, you know, excited people can use them to,
• 43:24
  you know, just it just depends on what you need them for.
• 43:28
  And a lot of times you get you're doing 2 or 3 different things at once and you realize,
• 43:33
  wow, I forgot to do this.
• 43:34
  And and your little talking machine will tell you.
• 43:37
  Hello.
• 43:38
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Come on You got Alexa?
• 43:41
  Renee Rentmeester: Yeah, yeah. So those are.
• 43:44
  Those are great. Let's see what else I don't I don't really can't really think of other
• 43:51
  things off the top of my head.
• 43:52
  I like the little tricks that we do sometimes with things.
• 43:55
  Oh, you know, what's good is slow cookers, crockpot slash slow.
• 44:01
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Cookers. Yes. Yeah. The instapot.
• 44:04
  Renee Rentmeester: Yeah. And instapot too.
• 44:06
  They, they have a instapot are amazing.
• 44:13
  And they're huge with people who are blind.
• 44:17
  I think they had business wise.
• 44:19
  They had a problem there for a while.
• 44:21
  I had someone call me out of the blue about the instapot,
• 44:24
  like years ago. And then I think they they reworked their business.
• 44:29
  So now I think they're still around.
• 44:31
  They are still around. But those are amazing.
• 44:34
  You do so many things with that.
• 44:37
  You can even make yogurt or bagels.
• 44:39
  Anything you want.
• 44:41
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I got one, but I have to confess, I've never used it.
• 44:45
  It was given to me as a gift, but I've never used it.
• 44:48
  Renee Rentmeester: Oh, well, you know, to be honest with you.
• 44:51
  Once that person called me about the instapot,
• 44:54
  I. It started off in Canada.
• 44:56
  The instapot.
• 44:58
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Okay.
• 44:59
  Renee Rentmeester: And And when she called me, I'm like, well, I gotta find out about this.
• 45:05
  So I went online and I started looking through the directions,
• 45:08
  and the directions just seemed like there's, like,
• 45:11
  everything all over the place.
• 45:13
  Like it just lost my my train of thought.
• 45:17
  I couldn't keep my train of thought over because,
• 45:19
  like, oh my God, look at this, look at this,
• 45:22
  look at this, you know, and it just too many directions,
• 45:28
  I guess, is what I'm saying.
• 45:31
  In college I took a course in technical writing and.
• 45:35
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, yes, I just.
• 45:37
  Renee Rentmeester: I just noticed that this was like, this needed someone who needed technical
• 45:41
  writing experience because it was just too many words.
• 45:44
  You know, if you get too many words, you don't want to follow instructions at all.
• 45:49
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: No, no you don't.
• 45:50
  Renee Rentmeester: So I don't blame you for not using it because I probably wouldn't have used it either.
• 45:57
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Well my clock is winding down but I have a final question for you.
• 46:01
  And it's this where do you see yourself going from here on in.
• 46:07
  You've done so many things, so many unique things,
• 46:10
  so many exciting and brilliant things.
• 46:13
  What's next for Renee?
• 46:16
  Renee Rentmeester: Well, I've been trying to get on a streaming service like one of the big streaming
• 46:21
  services.
• 46:22
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.
• 46:22
  Renee Rentmeester: We're on we're on YouTube, which it has been taking over.
• 46:27
  Even just the regular broadcast stations.
• 46:30
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right.
• 46:31
  Renee Rentmeester: But just to get on a regular streaming service that's out there.
• 46:36
  You know, I'd like to do that.
• 46:38
  I'd like to do that and really widen the audience and increase the audience more.
• 46:44
  And which is really just spreading the word even more.
• 46:48
  More than just numbers in an audience.
• 46:50
  Just to spread the word, spread the understanding.
• 46:55
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: When it has been a pleasure, pure pleasure having you on my podcast.
• 47:00
  And I'd like to invite you back at any time you want to come on again,
• 47:04
  talk to me, talk to our viewers, not viewers or listeners about anything.
• 47:09
  Please do not hesitate.
• 47:11
  Renee Rentmeester: Oh thank you, Donna, I've had a good time, too.
• 47:14
  We've got to get you on the show and on our podcast as well.
• 47:17
  That would be fun.
• 47:19
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Anytime you just let me know.
• 47:21
  And you know, I'd love to work with you to in any way,
• 47:25
  shape or form. You think I can help?
• 47:28
  Renee Rentmeester: Oh, thank you so much.
• 47:30
  Would you like our website?
• 47:33
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes. Go ahead, give it to us.
• 47:35
  Renee Rentmeester: Okay. It's w w w dot cooking without looking tv.wordpress.com,
• 47:44
  and it's a long one. So if you want to just Google the cooking without looking TV show,
• 47:50
  it'll it'll bring it up.
• 47:51
  We have a free recipes and free kitchen hacks Monday through Friday.
• 48:01
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Terrific. So I look forward to working with you in some way,
• 48:06
  shape or form in the future.
• 48:08
  I, I want to thank you for having brought all this fun to blind and vision where people
• 48:15
  around the world keep it up.
• 48:18
  Renee Rentmeester: Oh, thank you so much.
• 48:19
  Thank you for having me.
• 48:21
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You're very welcome. And you take care.
• 48:23
  Renee Rentmeester: You too. Donna. Bye bye.
• 48:25
  Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Bye. Bye now. Bye.
• 48:31
  Podcast Commentator: Thank you so much for listening.
• 48:33
  That's a wrap for this episode of dining with Donna.
• 48:37
  Donna wants to hear from you.
• 48:39
  What did you cook? What worked and what would you like to learn next?
• 48:44
  Share your favorite accessible kitchen tips.
• 48:47
  Send in a recipe request or tell us the kitchen challenge you like Donna to tackle on
• 48:53
  an upcoming episode. And if today's show helped you feel more confident cooking
• 48:58
  without relying on sight, please share it with a friend and leave a
• 49:03
  review. Your support helps more listeners find their way into the kitchen.
• 49:09
  Until next time, keep it simple, keep it safe,
• 49:13
  and keep it delicious.