Latest / Black Box Theory Podcast / BBT #22 | Special Guest Episode: First Howard Alum Knight-Hennessy Scholar - Jayson Johnson
Transcript
- Thomas: Yo. Malcolm: Don't know, man. How you doing? Thomas: Doing good, man. Doing good. How about you? Malcolm: I'm feeling good, man. Today Jayson: Okay. Malcolm: is a today today's a special episode, man. We gotta we we we we finally got something going. It's not it's no longer just me and Thomas, man. Happy to announce we are our first special guest today on the on the Black Box Theory Podcast. yeah, we we we we just as excited for y'all to meet him as as us to to go ahead and interview. Thomas: Yep. Let's let's I guess before before we say who's here, I'm just gonna throw throw the disclaimer out there real quick. This is just a podcast. This is not for any financial advice or any career advice. we're just thinking out loud, we're all here to learn together. So don't take this as, you know, you have to do anything we say, but just learn from it. Just be open minded and learn from it. But now that we got that out the way, I would like to introduce Jason Johnson. So our guests on the podcast, first guest, episode twenty two. Malcolm: Let's do it, man. Let's do it. yeah, no, now we're gonna go ahead and jump in. We'll give y'all quick quick little background about Jason. And like I said, obviously, like I said, Thomas and I being HBCU grads only right. Our first guest is another HBCU grad as well. so yeah, like Thomas mentioned, our guest today is Jason Johnson, who just graduated from Howard University with a BS in mechanical engineering. same as us, so it's good. We got three HBCU students and three MEs now, but also minors in computer science and math. And this fall, he's heading to Stanford to start his PhD in aeronautics and astronautics as a Knight Hennessy Scholar, which is Stanford's flagship multidisciplinary graduate fellowship. And Jason is the first Howard alum ever admitted into the program out of a cohort of 87 scholars from 31 countries. he's had a ton of research experience sitting at the intersection of aerodynamics, heat transfer, scientific machine learning. And this has taken him through some serious labs, including MIT's hypersonics research lab, Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Lab. Howard's After Lab and an internship at Muan Space, a satellite company where he worked on both simulation and actual flight hardware qualification. Outside of the lab, he also co-founded Rooted, which is a campus platform now connecting more than 1,500 Howard students with $120,000 raised and an official university partnership in the work, in the works. Won first place and $20,000 at Howard's Empower Pitch Competition. He's also a CAR STEM scholar, a Patty Gray STEM fellow, an ASME Research Award recipient, and a brother of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity Incorporated. beta chapter. and we wanted Jason as our first guest because his story runs directly through the question that this show and this platform is built on. how do you get inside rooms and institutions that were not designed with a clear on ramp for you or for people that look like us. And once you're in, how do you use that position to build the next or the build the on ramp for the next person that that comes after you. So yeah like I said, welcome everybody. Jason Johnson, our first guest on the episode. yeah we got a we got a ton of stuff we want to He launched that fences today, man. Thomas: Man, load it loaded intro, bro. Jason, tell us how you feeling. Jayson: Yeah, I'm feeling great. I just wanna say I'm really excited to be here in the Black Blocks Theory Podcast. I'm really excited to just dive into like a lot of amazing topics and just talk about something that's also like near and dear to us. it's really cool that we're all r a f room full of like mechanical engineers, you know, HBCU. I feel like there's a lot of great topics we can talk about. And yeah, I'm really Malcolm: Nah, no doubt. Jayson: excited. Malcolm: No doubt, bro. Yeah, nah, for sure. And it's like I said, it's always great to ask somebody else, like I said, it looks like us, like I said, with a with a crazy background and resume, like Jason does. So yeah, it's a ton of stuff for us to dive into today. But like I said, we're gonna start things off, obviously starting with the origin. and everybody has their reasons for getting into it, but we wanna go back to before Howard. So what actually put mechanical engineering on your radar? And was it engineering specifically? or did you like kinda like feel like you had to get forced into it 'cause you just wanted to, you know, j jump into engineering. Like what was your what was your what kind of what kind of put it on your radar and got you into it? Jayson: There was always a push for me when I was younger just to like be innovative and creative, especially like for my parents and things like that. but for me, I generally was so curious in a lot of things. I really didn't know what I wanted to do. I feel like you typically have those stories where you know everyone is like taking stuff apart and putting it back together. Yeah, that was me too. But something for me is I was just really indecisive. So I just chose a major that I was like, okay, like I could really do anything with STEM. And it was already being pushed really heavy, of course. And so wanting to do STEM and things like that, I was like, What's the most broad thing I can do? And that ended up Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: being mechanical engineering. Like there's really nothing you can't do. We do everything. I'm sure y'all hear that a lot all the time too. Malcolm: Facts. Nah, for sure. Jayson: and so yeah, I just decided to like take my chances, see what I like. liked and didn't like. and through like doing mechanical engineering or just like doing a lot of math and science, I was able to really narrow it down to like okay I like building stuff Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Jayson: and I actually kinda wanna get into like aerospace a bit more too. when I was in high school I had the opportunity to work at the Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Lab and that was really great for me because I had a mentor who actually had the same name as me and he was from Maryland and he would just expose me to so many cool things like aerospace, he transferred hypersonics and to me at the time like Anything that moved really fast was really interesting to me. So I kinda just built upon that and that's just what got me more interested in want to major in it in college and then I was able to do research in the same field and it just kept growing since then and I was like, Okay, well I'm good at this, I might as well keep doing it. So it was a little bit of both, like I Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: was put into it, but I just wanted to ke keep continue doing it and we'll see where it goes now. Malcolm: Nah, no, that's fire. That's I were you I I meant to act 'cause I I just realized I we I feel like we have a we have a crossover there because I interned at at APL when I was in high school too. Were you in the were you in the the circuit aspire pro? Yeah. Bro that's that's crazy. Jayson: No way. Aspire. Yes. Yo, that's crazy. Wow. Malcolm: I did that in high school, like my senior year, but I was on like Jayson: Mm-hmm. Malcolm: a I was working in like on like a almost like an entire like I was doing like all research all on like software engineering, like in cybersecurity, internet of things, IoT and AI. So it's like, nah, that's that's actually insane. That's a small world, bro. That's Jayson: No, it really is. Wow. Malcolm: That's nuts. You you had something or so you wanted to you wanna move on to the next one? Thomas: I was just gonna ask Jason what what high school you go to? Jayson: So I went to I went to three so I went to James Hubert Blake High School. So that's like Montgomery County. And I also went to Good Council. So and then I also went to Malcolm: Okay. Yeah. Are you Jayson: Wheaton. So I went to Good Council for two years. this was like pretty much the t two years right before COVID happened. And I was going Malcolm: Okay. Jayson: there because I wanted to I wanted to play soccer. I was playing soccer there, and I was doing the marching band and then Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: I was really interested in these aerospace classes that they had. and then I knew that I also wanted to go to like Blake as well just 'cause all my friends were there. And so it was really interesting, like I always planned on switching. especially 'cause it's like, you know, post school education, you know, it's really good. Like I wanted to still Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: take advantage of that. and then when COVID happened it was already just like like an excuse, like everything's online, I might as well just like be able to go back. Malcolm: Yeah, must say. Yeah. Jayson: but then Wheat in because everything was online, I saw that Wheat in high school had a bunch of classes in engineering that I wanted to get into as well. So it was like I was taking some classes online and that was my junior year, so I was like going to both of them. And then there's this thing called like the Project Lead the Way program, which I'm I feel like, yeah, right. Yeah, so Malcolm: Yeah, yeah. We had that a at f at Flowers too, yeah. That's what's Thomas: Yeah, heard it. Jayson: I wanted to continue doing that as well. And so then my senior year I like, okay, why don't I just like take them in person and just like do the half day schedule that we have and then go to like wean at the end of the day. So I was doing like I was doing that too. So it was just always like I was trying to do engineering all the time. I just made it work. Malcolm: That's tough, I'm not gonna Thomas: It's tough. Malcolm: lie. That's hard. That's okay, no, no, that's major. I I did not even realize you like you was at you at 3D high school. I know that's I mean and right before COVID too, that nah, that's what's up, bro. all right, nah, for sure. Now we're gonna we're gonna build on that, man. Like I said, like y'all kinda heard from the original intro, like with Jason's kind of background, some of the incredible work he's done, like in like some of like the in-depth research and hands-on stuff that he's done. Wanted to ask you, like, was there a moment early on, maybe your first real research experience or kind of like undergraduate research experience, like where something that you worked on sound like science fiction or like hard to believe, but it's actually like like what you worked on. Like basically Jayson: Mm. Malcolm: like if you had to explain it to someone else, they wouldn't believe you. But it's actually something that you that you really did. Jayson: Yeah, and I would say that's the stuff that I did at the John Topkins Applied Physics Lab because it was introduced Malcolm: Okay. Jayson: really early to me. Working on hypersonics I was doing heat transfer. So the simplest way to explain that is you just don't want things to get too hot. And that's kinda how I Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: explain everything. I just feel like it makes the most sense. And it was a really cool experience because you had to like walk into the building, you know, it's a huge research facility. You had to go through like security, all this other stuff. So I already felt like I was just this is just really cool if I like the movies. Malcolm: Yeah. Yeah. Jayson: and then I was finally learning how to use like coding softwares and I just thought, you know, when you see the screen you just see a bunch of cod lines. So my last summer I was in California working at Mewon Space and that was a satellite company and I feel like 'cause it was different from a lot of the research I was doing outside of the school environment, that also felt like okay, this is really Real real work. and one of the parts I was working on there too was dealing with like heat transfer and things like that. So making sure things don't get too hot or too cold in space. And when I actually had to do a lot of the testing, so putting the things I was working on into like vacuum chambers, so things that simulate these environments or putting it on like a a table that shakes it so it simulates an air like a sh lot rocket getting launched into space, that's when I was like, Okay, these things are like really real because this is you actually have to test this stuff. So that's That's what really made me feel like, Whoa, this is really cool. Malcolm: Nah, nah, that's that's major, bro. And that's like to to have that kind of like exposure like that early on, I think is kind of I'm I'm sure that played like a big part in like, you know, you deciding to like take up engineering when you got to Tower and stuff like that. But in that in that same breath, like also wanted to ask, like was there a moment early on also like in your earlier research experiences where you thought like okay, like I can I can actually see myself doing this like long term in college post grad. or was it like also a moment that you had on the flip side where kinda doubted like, you know, whether it was imposter syndrome or if you thought like this was a place or a space that you really belonged and if you you know, if you kinda like ever doubted yourself like, is this where I'm supposed to be? Like was there ever like a did you ever kind of have like a feeling like in between either of those, during any time when you when you did a research? Jayson: Yeah, so I was doing research at Howard apart like with one of my professors and she was really big on taking us to conferences to present our research. And so I remember going to New Orleans, at like the ASME I'm I conferences. So that's like a just conference where a lot of people in engineering get together. I probably know. Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: and it was a competition so I was like okay it's like I get to see what other schools are doing. I thought it was really Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Jayson: cool 'cause I just got more exposure to what other people were up to but then it was kinda like scary 'cause there were like no H C C representation. Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: the research was all like well yeah, it's just from other schools and things like that. And so that's when I felt like a little bit of both imposter syndrome, but also it was a moment of time for me. I felt like I could prove myself and see how I was Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Jayson: doing compared to a lot of other people. And so Going to New Orleans was also a crazy thing 'cause like I've never really traveled anywhere beyond like Philly, like New York or you know, maybe Virginia. And so, Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: going to New Orleans was a really cool thing. I got there and I was feeling a lot of imposter syndrome then. But like throughout the weekend, things like that, did the poster competition, actually won third place, which is really cool, and it was just amazing to me 'cause on the there there again, there was like very little H C C representation. There's probably Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Jayson: like sixty other students there and it was just a really good feeling, and that's when I was like Okay, and I feel like this is something I could do as well. That was a big moment for me. 'cause it was like the beginning of my sophomore year. So, yeah, I was really starting to dive a lot deeper into research, getting into more of those classes specific to my major as well. So it was a lot less like basic, like chemistry and physics. It was like, Okay, this is mechanical engineering now. And so that's something that really like hit for me. Just going out there and like just competing. Malcolm: Yeah. No no. I I I get yeah, no, that's like I feel like you you hit on it now. I feel like that kinda like that synergy you have between like all right, like this is kinda it is kinda scary 'cause there's not nobody else here that look like me and it's also like Jayson: Mm. Yeah. Malcolm: I feel like I mean I feel like it kinda it's like both things like it's a little scary not seeing people like that look like you in the same place, but I feel like it also kinda at the same time puts like a chip on your shoulder a bit 'cause it's like all right, if I'm the only person here it's probably for a reason and I gotta like show out for, you know, anyone else that does come after me that looks like me. but yeah. Jayson: Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, nah I definitely agree. That's something I feel like is always in the back of my mind, especially coming from an HP C U. Like there's definitely competition at H B C Us. I feel like I'm always there Malcolm: Yeah. for sure. Jayson: tryna you know, just put myself out there, see how I kinda It's like standing out against like my peers and things like that. It's always like a friendly competition. it's so Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: so it's something I'm used to. And then when I'm in spaces where there's not a lot of people that look like me, it's just kind of even more of a motivation. But I feel like I'm ready because I'm already around so much talent in the first place. So it's just great to keep pushing and doing stuff like that. Thomas: That's facts. I mean, Malcolm: Thanks, thanks. Thomas: no, that's great to hear the experiences, bro. I think we can relate to those and people who are watching, like read them between the lines. Look, look at the lines, the insight that he's offering. And more that you're offering, like we talked about what you've learned. Let's talk about what you act, what you're doing. Like you've done something great with Rooted. And Rooted, which is now in the middle of an actual institutional partnership process with Howard, which means MSA under negotiation, security review, all of that and more. So I guess I want to ask you, can you explain rooted, but then also explain what was harder between building the product or getting the university to say yes to the product? Jayson: yeah yeah yeah. Okay, so Rooted is an all in one campus live platform. You know, it's actually something you can download on your phone right now. Send information about what's going on around your campus, something that we want to bring Malcolm: Mm. Jayson: to all HBCUs, but things like dining hall information, sports, clubs, just events, Malcolm: Tough. Jayson: for really necessary everyone on campus. And so when creating this application, I would say AI makes things so much easier nowadays. So Malcolm: a thhous, Jayson: The hard yeah. And coming from the Malcolm: yeah. Thomas: Yeah. Jayson: engineering background, it it was harder to like do the business side. So like negotiating with the school. Malcolm: Mm. Jayson: and then 'cause they have a lot of different stakeholders, it's like a hundred and h who knows how many years institutions. So they have a lot of things already in place and set up and things like that. And then they don't normally buy businesses from students. So it's just like, Malcolm: Mm. Jayson: you know, it's a lot of new things for a lot of the people there. And so I would say that's was much harder than the actual engineering work because that's just what I love to do. Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: and then like I was felt like I was really outside my field, especially with like the security things. and then doing a lot of the marketing and promotion as well as like analytics for the app and then doing Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Jayson: a lot of the law stuff and things like that too. So for me personally, it was a lot harder to do that. So that's what I'd say. Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: So that's my brother. Sorry. Yeah, Thomas: Shout out, shout out, bro. Jayson: shout out him. He also went to an HBCU, things like that. Doing the podcast right now. all right. But yeah, Thomas: Hey. It's awesome. Jayson: Yeah, he's helping me with rooted too, so he's really working on like the sports section and things like that as well. Cause we realize Malcolm: word. Jayson: there's not a lot of like representation for HBC s HBCU sports, like statistics, things like that, and that's something that we really Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: want to bring into the app as well. So like You know, I feel like a lot of other sports centers like E ESPN, things like that, do cover a lot of news for a lot of other institutions, but not like HBCU conferences. So that's something that we want to do too. Malcolm: Yeah, nah, I I was gonna say I know like every time like I look up like the score when I see like ANT playing or some of that, I have to go to like HBC, like ESPN like three or four to just to see like the I Jayson: Yeah. Malcolm: have to go on actual like it's like if you look up like a like if Duke or Alabama or Georgia or somebody in SEC or like the big tennis playing, like that's gonna be the first thing that pops up on Google, like the live score with the score bug, all that. But if it's an AC, you have to actually like do some digging and it's like the I know like the the scores are also almost always like behind than the actual score in the actual game. So it's like it's Jayson: Mm-hmm. Malcolm: a ton of like you can tell it's like not as much like effort and the quality and in real time updates as obviously Thomas: Okay. Malcolm: some of the bigger, maybe more profitable leagues, but that's major. So I guess like for just to kind of like follow up on Thomas's question, like for the root of stuff. So were you he's you're you're a you're a co founder like for Jayson: Yeah. Malcolm: for that right. So I guess is your did your other co founder, did he was he like more focused on like some of like the like I guess like the writing like a ton of like the code and like the the back end, front end, like like the UI stuff like that. Or how did you guys kinda like split the work up between like Jayson: Yeah, well without my co founder Noah Day, n none of this would have been done. Yeah yeah. He yeah, Malcolm: I was about to say s yeah, shout out bro, 'cause they yeah app is hard, yeah. Jayson: he's also he just graduated from Howard. He was electrical engineering and he's now going to Johns Malcolm: Okay. Let's go, okay. Jayson: Hawkins for his PhD in electrical engineering. So he's Malcolm: y'all like y'all try hards, bro. I'm not gonna lie. I like both tryhards. Thomas: Yeah. Jayson: So he's yeah, he's on a lot of similar time as me and I feel like that's what made things work really well. But at the beginning, Malcolm: Okay. Jayson: so we were trying to build this app before AI was really a thing and so he was gonna focus Malcolm: Okay. Jayson: on like the iOS side of coding. I was gonna do Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: Android until we learned like we definitely shouldn't be splitting it up. But now we split it up to where he does a lot of the stuff in AWS in the back end, I do a lot of the front end, and then we just try our best to like split marketing and talking to like our university relations and things like that. Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: but yeah, early on it was like we were really dividing and conquering at least the coding, until AI just like made it a lot easier, things like that. Malcolm: Facts. Jayson: and so yeah. Thomas: So it's just like y'all two right now, or are you thinking because I know, you know, you're both about to go into PhD programs, Jayson: Thanks. Thomas: you know, s a lot going on with life, I guess. Do you have you thought about like how this is gonna look, you know, in the future in terms of bringing in others or, you know, how ownership looks and just managing it all? Like have you like what does that look like for you? Jayson: Yeah, definitely. So over the past year we've been trying to build out and expand our team. So we have eight interns at Howard University who've been working with us last semester and they've been really helpful with like marketing, things like that, Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: with coding and building the app and I feel Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Jayson: like it's been really great for me just to learn more about like working with other people and seeing kinda how like a business works and flows. and then now we hired more of our friends who were in the same like program at Howard with us, all trying to get their PhDs, to do a lot of the like managing and working on the app and trying to build that to other HPCUs as well. And so that's kind of what we're trying to do when we are in grad school because we know we're not gonna have as much time. And then we're trying Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: to get more interns and get like campus ambassadors and things like that. So we're really trying to build. I'm really trying to work a lot better on like managing and things like that. 'cause I realize I can't have my hand in every single piece of the pie. Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Jayson: I think that's what they'd be saying. So I'm just trying to learn and build just like that, yeah. Thomas: That's that's dope, bro. That's dope. Yeah. I I think you know, I think and that's this is a great bridge. We're gonna have to learn more about about rooted. I think this is this is a great opportunity. It's a great thing that you're doing, that you and you and your team are doing. I'm excited to keep hearing how that grows. but I guess like with the the PhD stuff, the grad school stuff, so you are a knight Hennessy scholar, which we talked about which in the in the intro. I guess What like let the people know. I don't know how many people out there know what a Knight Hennessy scholar is or understand the importance of what it means, especially you being the first Howard alumn alumnus to be in the program. so can you I guess speak on that program, speak on what it comes with, you know, what you what you want to share, and then how you think the evaluating process went, you know, what you did to kind of be be a part of the program. I know that's a loaded question, but Yeah, just what's your experience with all that? Jayson: Yeah, absolutely. So I'll break it up into parts. So first the Night Tennessee Scholars Program is a program at Stanford University and it it's a leadership development program. So it has people from all over the world who are interested in being leaders, coming together to one space to just learn and grow off each other. it's for like post grad, so it's about people who are trying to get their degrees, in any s type of interdisciplinary field, so whether that be business or like law or engineering, way more. So many different fields I've never heard of That are just so amazing. And so it's all coming together just to learn about how we could be better leaders. They have a lot of like seminars so that we can keep training and then also Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Jayson: to travel around the world so we can get more interdisciplinary perspectives about what's going on so we can be better leaders in the world as well. And so for me it also comes with a lot of perks where you get to attend the university where they cover three years of tuition. and other things like that as well. And then they just give you a safe space to where you can like interact with a lot more scholars on campus, give you mentorship and guidance that you need. and also just like provide yeah, just provide that community and safe space. And so for me when applying it was really interesting to me and something I really wanted to do because At Howard University I was a part of this program called the CarsTem Scholars Program. And that's like Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Jayson: a pathways to PhD program where everyone in the program wanted to get their PhD and it provided such a great network of and a cohort of people that pushed me to keep going. And I feel like I was able to learn a lot of different perspectives which kept me going like I would have never graduated without these guys and these you know, these people. Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: So it was really great for me and that's something that I really wanted, in grad school as well. And so I feel like that connection of having those people and having those like extra resources really helped me. and push me to want to do this. And so that's definitely what I'd say about that. Mm-hmm. Malcolm: So Thomas: That's dope, bro. That's dope. I I think that's a great aspect, especially the the whole traveling, like being able to learn more, different perspectives. A lot of people they might hear what you're doing and think, you know, he's just doing it by himself, or like, you know, he's meeting these people. But it's important to, you know, have other people in there. Jayson: Yeah, absolutely. Thomas: I guess you you stated research interest at Stanford is computational methods and machine learning for resilient air and space systems in extreme environments. What's the specific question inside that you want to be answering three or four years from now? Jayson: Right. And I know so this also ties on to a lot of the reasons why I wanted to be a knight Hennessy scholar as well. And I there was part of the question I didn't answer 'cause it was it was a loaded question, I was trying to remember every single thing that was a part of question. So we can definitely go back to that. but Malcolm: Mm. Thomas: Yeah, my fault, my fault. Jayson: I'd say I'm really interested in space policy and so I know that's not like something that a lot of people think about, but the reason why I'm so interested is 'cause space is gonna end up being like airplanes, you know, you have air traffic control, you have a lot of people who travel every single day. It's like people rely on flying to get to where they need to go. And I think it's and eventually it's gonna be just like that in space. We're gonna utilize a lot of research and resources in space as well. And it's gonna be so common now where we're gonna have flights almost every single day. So I think it's really important that as we keep improving this technology and getting into space more and more, we also make sure that how we're getting to space and utilizing those resources and acting politically in terms of who gets what and where and why that we're We're also accounting for a lot of the people, you know, that really can benefit from what we can get and gain in space as well. So I really wan kinda want to dive deeper on how space can be more equitable, literally. and so that's something I really want to dive into. Through my research of being an engineer, I think it's great to just deal with space anyway. But also like my entrepreneurship framework and background, I really want to get more into like the legislative thing. So like who's making the decisions, Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Jayson: why are we making the decisions? And I feel like that's also something I'm so passionate. about versus just the research itself. So I really want to build Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: it in those different types of ways. Malcolm: Nah, nah, that's a that's a really good perspective. I think there are not like nah, that's a really good perspective, bro. I think like now, like like this is like really kind of like like super important. I think we're kinda like at this interesting inflection point 'cause it's like you see companies like obviously like Elon Musk's SpaceX who now was kind of like after they IPO'd it become kind of like the center of attention for all things Jayson: Mm-hmm. Malcolm: like space and and and what's getting like launched out. So it's like like do you see yourself you know, after you do like kinda like finish your education and get your PhD, do you so see yourself kinda like being more of like a like a freelance kind of like like you're kinda like doing like, you know, still kinda like staying true to your passion. Do you yourself see yourself working at a company that's kinda like trying to, you know, push the boundaries of what's possible with space ex like space exploration with like a SpaceX or a blue origin like a NAS or something like Like where do where do you kinda see yourself falling I mean, I was I I'm I my guess for you would be like if you're getting if you're going through a a five, six year PhD program, it's 'cause you really like what you're doing and you're not trying to be s like listening, you know, somebody else to to be your boss. I'm I I Yeah. Jayson: Nah, it's real. I'm really not trying to work for nobody. That's definitely a big thing. that I've been trying to like really just keep doing. and that's why, yeah, Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: grad school is something I've been trying to do, the entrepreneurship stuff, so I can get to that point to where that's hopefully where I'll be at. but Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: yeah, in the future I feel like I see myself doing all those things in terms of trying to explore space, get further into Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: that into that realm. But then also you said like consulting a little way. I wanna be able to do my own thing. So it's gonna be mix of both. I'm Malcolm: Mm. Nah, for sure. Jayson: not exactly sure how yet but I'm gonna make sure that happens. Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: just 'cause yeah, I'm so passionate about the things that I'm doing, like you said. and I really wanna be able to take those things and be able to do that on my own 'cause I feel like what I wanna do is not something that's being done already and so it's gonna take more of Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: some like yeah, it's gonna take more of like what I'm already doing. I'm passionate about to kinda get there. Malcolm: Nah, nah, that's major bro. That's that's that's that's incredible. I think like I haven't I personally haven't met like I think anyone kinda like with like from a mechanical engineering background that has like that kind of like like kind of specific interest that you do, but no, I'm I'm definitely wishing you the best of luck. I know you're gonna I know Thomas: Thanks. Malcolm: you're gonna, you what I'm saying, like like make some shake or you know, you know, whatever you do, kinda like finish things out. But nah, that's major, bro. We nah, this was like the we wanted the try to like actually start to transition to a to more of a round. So this was like the the interview portion of the episode, like want to kind of understand more about Jason's background, some of the work he's done, you know, his experience with Rudy and Night Hennessy. And now we kind of want to tr transition to a more of a roundtable discussion between the three of us, seeing that we have like a ton of overlap between I think like our background experiences. and so one thing, like I said at the beginning of the episode, like, you know, we're all HBCU alums. So we have like anti how whether you went to anti Howard, FanBium, Morehouse, Clark Atlanta, like it doesn't really matter. Like there are certain things in HBCUs that like don't change like from institution to institution. So Jayson: Thanks. Malcolm: one of the first things I wanted to ask, and obviously this is different for this can actually be a different answer. Like you going to post grad and and me and Thomas kinda like being in like a a corporate space. Like what is something about coming up through an HBCU that all of us had to unlearn or relearn once we got into the next space after undergrad where We are nine times out of ten the minority in the space. And like I said, we can like divvy this up however, whoever wanna kinda like take a stab first. It's it's whatever, but Jayson: I yeah. I could definitely start with that one. I feel like it's the most common one. I feel like code switching. very necessary. I feel like Malcolm: yeah. yeah. Jayson: you can't always portray yourself in the way that you want to. there are a lot of moments where that's like yeah, you just have to be very aware of your surroundings and what's going Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: on. But I do feel like there's definitely something I've learned is you can't you you start to be like yourself and like obviously your individual and be very personable. Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Jayson: and I think the fact that we went to an HBCU, something that I'm still like trying to, you know, nail into my head is that you have to you have to be yourself, you know. What we have at our HBCU, the kind of culture that we've gone through, and our personalities and the way they are is amazing and people don't have access to that because they're just not around us a lot of time and we're just so rare Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: and so something that is really important is to just keep being yourself and that's gonna carry you a long way and I feel like I've I feel like I've been really lucky to kind of have that experience for sure. But it's definitely been it's been it's been working for me. it's something I've had to keep like telling myself that I I need to keep being myself, in order to kinda like thrive in these different spaces. Just 'cause yeah, we're so rare and unique and people don't often have Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: experiences like us. So when they do see people Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Jayson: like us, they remember it. and hopefully in a good way. Malcolm: Nah, for sure. nah. Yeah, I think that's that's a good point. And we we talked about code switching like a ton in some of our previous episodes 'cause just like like like it's such a like a like a very obvious thing, but I think a lot people don't realize that like how necessary it is because like like an another kind of like unfortunate piece about it is that like obviously we w we're super aware of what code switching is, but there are a lot of like people that I know that I've come through school with who just have no idea about the first thing about code switching because they've never been in those spaces. And it's just like for them. It's like a well, why do I need to, you know, change this or change this? It's not more so about like, you know, changing everything about you, but it's just like you're like being Jayson: Mm. Malcolm: aware of kinda like where you're at and what's kinda needed. And I think like like I think a point I'd say like I think something I'd have to relearn or I I guess like a piece that I never really kind of forgot going from in HBCU to, you know, the next space after undergrads is like the the importance of having like community like around you, bro. Like it's like I think one thing about HBCU is like, bro, you're gonna have like You're gonna like real family, bro. Like you're gonna have real like whether it's like just, you know, just those in those four years, like I think being at at ANC or being at HBCU in general, like you're gonna meet some of you know, some of the people that are like your friends for the rest of your life, bro, whether it's through like, you know, from your classes and your major, whether it's through different clubs and organizations, whether it's through a fraternity or sorority, whether like it's it's like through SGA, like it's just so different like the football, like it's so many different ways that you can like build a network of people who are kind of like like dear to and and and and like kind of authentic. I think like That still kinda stays the same. It may not be the same level of like camaraderie or like intimacy on a in a corporate space, but it's like the importance of having that community and that network, like, you know, those people that can kind of like go to bat for you and and and advocate for you, you know, when you're not around and defend you when you're not in the same room is like just as important because it's like, you know, whether you're in post grad or whether you're in a corporate space, like you need people in your corner, to lean on, to bounce ideas off of and to kind of like help you kind of like get to that get to that next level. So Jayson: Absolutely. Nah, you you hit that on the nail, I think ten thousand percent. Like you need those sponsors, like you need people who will be in those other Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: rooms for you, advocating for you. And that's like one of the most important things. I've definitely learned that it's those connections that you have with other people. It's like, you know, more Malcolm: Text. Jayson: about like who you know than what you know. And I feel like being at my HBCU just taught me so much about that because trying to get into different places and things like that, it's all about that that word of mouth that you have from Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: those peers that you know. So I would one thousand percent say that. And that goes into the industry I think a lot too. My my experiences have been so great because I feel like I've always had someone there who's been willing to support me and pave the pathway for me to also like follow in their footsteps. Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Jayson: So Malcolm: Nah, facts. Facts. yeah, no. Thomas, you got you got anything on this one? Thomas: man, I I think I just spent my time in college for the most part trying to prepare for what came next. I mean, I I Malcolm: Mm. Thomas: think I was just super aware, maybe too focused on being aware about what you know was waiting for us on the other side. having seen the stuff before, like I I've said it before like previous episodes, but I didn't grow up 100% in Maryland, like in PG. You know, so a lot of people who grew up in places where, you know, it's it's black people, like that's the thing where it's normal, right? Where that's just what you see every day and that's what it is. You know, they continue that at a HBCU, it feels normal. But for me and Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Thomas: you know a lot of other people, it's like you've seen the other side, you've seen the different spaces you're in, you've seen the lack of understanding, the lack of awareness. like even, you know, like the term black excellence, depending on how people say that and how they use that, that's that's kind of backhanded, right? So I think things that I had to I learned at the HBC at the HBCU was trying to be self reliant in a space where I didn't have to be. Where it's like, okay, I know I gotta all I'm gonna have is me in the future. So it's like, can I get through this this college experience, relying on myself as much as possible, still having others around and having that support system, but just not being too reliant? I there was a lot of people in college and y'all you I'm sure y'all seen this where people were just relying on everyone else but themselves. Like Just they never did projects, they never did their own stuff. They just coasted. then Malcolm: Yeah. Thomas: the real world, you can do that depending on what you do, but it's it's it's rough. Like you just gotta still have your support system, but it's a little more difficult to find depending on where you're at. So I think it kind of reinforced the learning of being self reliant, but also still making sure you have people that you, you know, you can like exist with, speak with. Otherwise, Malcolm: Mm. Thomas: it's just like you just you just out there, just just floating. Jayson: Yeah. Yeah. Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: I definitely think there's a balance that you need to have. Like you need to be able to have that self Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Jayson: discipline to kinda keep yourself going because at the end of the day you're gonna be on your own schedule, your own routine and things like that. You gotta make sure you stay consistent. And that's something I feel like I I be preaching a lot about staying consistent. Consistency is gonna get you you know, it's gonna help you grow, get you those places that you wanna go. and for me I've been trying my best to keep editing my routines and everything's like that, just so I can keep pushing that consistency. And so I think it's definitely Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Jayson: a mix of both, especially when you're around so many amazing people as well. It's just can you stay on your own in your own lane sometimes too and keep going. Malcolm: Yeah. Yeah. No, that's what's up, bro. And I all right, cool. Now, so like the next I guess like the next question is more of kinda like a I don't want to call that a hot take, but I guess kinda like a like a so we wanted to understand like and obviously like not to I mean it's kinda it's it's kinda weird 'cause like we're already like both in both of these like spaces, but it's like I guess for people that are listening, so it's like is is and this can obviously be expanded beyond black engineers, but do you guys think that grad like going to grad school is actually like I guess like the best bet for the most We also gotta consider the context of like what the job market looks like right now. Cause like even with the engineering degree, like I know it's it's it's a lot of people I know that like are still struggling to find, you know, a role or like try to like figure out what's next for them. but is is going to grad school you know, like the best bet for the most ambitious black engineers right now, or is it oversold comparing to getting into the industry and and and working early? I think we obviously wanna have different perspectives on this considering Jayson: Ha ha. Malcolm: like we in the industry early and and you you headed off to grad school, but like like what's kinda y'all take on on grad school, with the engineering, you know, degree and or just kinda like going straight to straight to work. Like I I guess to kick things off. I personally think that's more of like a I really think that that's a personal preference thing. Like I think that's a but I don't really think it's like I mean it's hard for it's hard to kinda say. I think like considering like the context of like how tough it is in the in the job market right now, I wouldn't be you know, I don't I don't blame anybody for going to grad school but I think it's more about 'cause I know there are are a ton of people who get through an engineering degree and never want to touch engineering again in their life. And that's a big big a big enough reason for them not to want to go back to grad school. But like I said, like what's y'all take on like, you know, like like is it is it the the best bet? Do you feel like you're kinda like missing out by not going straight to work and getting that that hands on experience? Thomas: Jason, you got it, man. Your world. Jayson: for sure. like you said, it's definitely very personal because it I feel like depends what your goals Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: are. Like if you're trying to be a teacher, you gotta do academia, you know, if you so it's Malcolm: Yeah, of course. Jayson: just things like that. But for me, I'm just not in any rut. Like I feel like any opportunity you can get off the bat, you gotta take it. Like right now, like you said, Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: in the political climate, everything, it's hard to even get either. Malcolm: yeah, it's isn't this is it's nasty out here, bruh. Yeah. Jayson: It's terrible, it's terrible, it's terrible. For me, I I've actually really thought about this for a very long time 'cause yo I did my industry internship and I like, This is great. I love being in the Bay Area, all that. but I was just like, I wanna I can I can hold off on working. I wanna hold off on working as long as I can because I know there will be a point where I'll probably be doing that for a good period of my life and so I just I love school. So I'm gonna just keep doing that and that's Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Jayson: something that I feel like was the simplest way to explain it. Like I'm telling you, I was talking to literally everybody at my company, I like, Yo, one on one, why you choose work, why did you not chose to go to school or did you Malcolm: Mm. Jayson: go to school, you get a PhD, whatever, why you do that? And for me what I got from those conversations are it it really just depended on if you like school or not, and if you wanted Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: to make money. So it's really just those two things. I feel like at the end of the day that a lot of the people who are already loving like learning and STEM and engineering just had to battle through. And so for me I was just feel really lucky that I got this opportunity to continue doing school and not have to have to rely on that financial part as much. through the opportunity I got. So I was just very thankful about that. Malcolm: Yeah. Thomas: Think that's a that's a great point, man. I I I agree with y'all. I think it's it's preference, right? But for me, it it's gotta make sense, bro. Like if you wanna get a if you wanna be get an MBA, you might not want to go to school immediately after undergrad. You Jayson: Mm-hmm. Thomas: wanna get some experience, you have something to add to Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Thomas: the table. also, like Jason said, opportunity. If you have to choose if you have the opportunity between a job that's gonna give you 120K or a master's where you're gonna be spending money where you don't have any Jayson: Yeah yeah. Thomas: coverage, you're taking loans. Like let let's let's be serious, right? Like let's think. Like, Malcolm: Yeah, I guess. Jayson: Yeah. Thomas: even if you love school, you don't want to put yourself in a financial hole because school will eventually end. I mean, there are people out there who stay in school consistently in, you know, in their 40s, 50s, 60s, like they're always in school. And I think I've heard of that being a method to avoid having to pay back your loans. Like people just stay in school. Jayson: Mm-hmm. Malcolm: No facts. Thomas: But it's like I think I think you need If you're gonna do grad school, it should for a reason. Like Jason said, he thought about it for a long time. He talked to people. Don't just go to grad school because you don't know what else to do. I I think you should have a plan. so I I wouldn't say any one is better than the other, but just whatever decision you make, think about it. You can always go back to school, but you can't make debt disappear. So just think about it. Jayson: Mm, mm. Right, right, right. And I think I think it I think no matter what path you do, you're still gonna be able to make a big impact in your community. You know, if you're making money and Malcolm: Exactly. Jayson: working, you know, at an amazing like corporation, you can always help people kinda get to those points and, you know, be a mentor and be very impactful towards a lot of younger individuals and I think both ways are great Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Jayson: to do that. And so at the end of the day it's just really like how you wanna make that impact as well. There's definitely plenty of opportunity to do it both ways. Malcolm: Yeah. Nah. I'm Thomas: Thanks. Malcolm: not gonna lie. That's you actually like helped Loki like make like the perfect intro to the next question 'cause that was that was gonna be like the so like obviously like they're they're pretty different in in regard to like kinda like like what the platform is. Like, you know, obviously like you had Rudy and we've kinda like have built up this this this kind of like this podcast audience and platform. So it's like the between the three of us, like we've all been able to build something, you know, whether it's rooted or whether it's it's the the black box theory podcast, like outside of our main job or kind of like program. So it's like what's the actual you know, like why we're kind of living in it, like what's the actual payoff of that kind of building beyond something to put on a resume like like what does like what's kinda like the you know, like you mentioned, like being able to make that impact on community. Jayson: Mm-hmm. Malcolm: Like what's kind of like the like like like what's the goal here? Like what what's the end goal? Like what's the the real kind of like like impact or or, you know, on your community or on like whoever the intended audience is, for for both platforms. And I feel like being that we're kinda, you know, super young and early in our careers, like this is something that we clearly have like a long term goal for. So it's like what's like the, you know, the the payoff for that and and kinda like what what we hope to get out of it. Jayson: Yeah, you know what's great? I feel like it speaks for yourself speaks for itself and for yourself Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: with the podcast talking about how we can improve kinda our community. through like what we're talking about and give advice and things like that. for me for rooted, I think it's the same thing in terms of we're trying to make sure there's more opportunity that is known about through our platform. And so Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Jayson: something I really wanted to do or the reason why I made Rooted in the first place is because at our HBCU there was so much opportunity but it's just kinda hard to know about it because there's just so much going on. And so I really wanted to build something that I felt like would impact the community, allow other people to get those opportunities that they needed to be successful. And I feel like that's also why I wanted To get my PhD and that's so that I could kind of hopefully be like some inspiration, a beacon of inspiration to kind of keep pushing others to find those opportunities and get those opportunities that they need to be more successful as well. So I feel like they kinda all tie in together. I feel like it is kind of outside my like my job or main program to be doing building rooted, but I feel like it ties so much into kind of the impact that I want to make in the first place. So I feel like in that sense Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: it's all in one. And also just part of my personal brand to wanna be able to be so many different things or kinda have like impact or put my foot in the door in so many different ways that I can be able to spread that opportunity to others, and kinda like be inspiration for that too. And so I mean that's kinda how I live life, if I'm being honest. I really just want to try as much stuff as I can. so that, you know, it just shows that it's proof that anyone can do, you know, whatever through maybe just some from inspiration. If I can motivate someone to try something new and I feel like I want at something and so the same with rooted. They see an opportunity that they might have not seen before and they are able to like find their way to do something that makes me really happy and that's what Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Jayson: keeps me going. So Malcolm: Yeah. No, that's major, bro. That's that's that's no major. I'm Thomas, you do wanna you wanna take a stab at it first or you want me go ahead. Thomas: Yeah, I can say something here. I I think it's a good way, like doing something outside of your regular job or like area is not just a good way to expand your repertoire, but it's also a good way to hold yourself accountable to what really matters. A lot of times we have so many things we want to do in life, you know, but you can't do them all. So if you can start something, for example, rooted to help people, to make access more easy, because everybody's not gonna go to college and have all the Twitter pages on day one. I remember going to AT, you had to have Twitter, bro. If you didn't have Twitter, Jayson: Yeah. Thomas: you you was just out the loop. but it's like that that's a way to keep yourself accountable to actually fulfilling that part of your mission as to you know help people out rather than just be focused on your own journey. And I think for us with the podcast, it's like we can share things that we're learning and hopefully get to people. At least my goal is like get pe get to people, share information, have insight. share access to things that we might not know about. You know, like for example, with Jason on here, we have we have someone who's who can speak on things that Malcolm and I might not be able to speak on. so just doing our part to spread the word and just have a level of accountability to the public rather than just saying, we wish, you this would change, that would change, people knew more, actually, you know, doing something about it. Malcolm: Yeah. No, no. That's that's a good point. I think for me, like I obviously like kinda like being like co hosts, like we obviously share a lot of the same sentiment towards the platform. But you know, obviously we both have our own reasons. But I think for me, like the biggest thing is just like being able to kind of like bridge that gap. 'cause I think like going through like and back to our original point where I said like like a lot of times, like I said, I've been able to intern at at incredible corporations. Like I said, I've been at Stellantis in Detroit, I've been at Apple. in in in Cupertino, California, but in Microsoft and Redmond, Washington. And each of those times it's like, like, wow, like I'm I'm I'm so excited I'm here. I get to make a name for myself. I get this incredible interest of experience. But then when I look around, I'm seeing like it's no one else that looks like me. It's very few people that look like me and even fewer that come from an HBCU background. So it's like you to my left and my right, I have kids from Princeton, Georgia Tech, Stanford, MIT, like Purdue, like all these like PW and it's like obviously it's it's cool 'cause like I'm getting to learn from all these incredibly smart peers of mine, but it's like Something me is just like, all right, bro, like it's a problem and I'm not seeing nobody else that looks like me. So it's for it's like it's bridging that gap, bro, because it's like when I come back, it's cool. I like that like just even if like even if one person hears this and and takes it as like an inspiration or like a piece of advice or listens to something that, you know, Thomas Ryer or someone, I guess that we have one here shares and they use that to better their lives or to make a you know a decision that's gonna, you know, impact them positively going forward. Like that's that's a win on our part. Like so it's bridging that gap. It's like for me it's about bringing like accessibility. in the most like easiest to digest like way possible because there's so much information online. and a lot of times people just don't know where to start. So I think like hearing it from people who have kind of like been in the same shoes, have lived through it, and are bringing it like right to your your headphones, it's like it's easy to do that. And so like I said I've I've it's it's unfortunate that it's not more rep like more of us represented. but that's kinda like like I feel like you can only kind of accelerate that with platforms like this. Like whether it's like May like I said, it may not be as big as like a as earn your leisure or Breakfast Club, but it's like that's the whole point of grinding and and building it up so that, you know, it eventually gets that that type of reach and that type of impact on people that listen. But like I said, like for me it's just about bridging that gap, or it's about like like making sure that someone else that comes after me understands like what steps I took to get into the doors I'm in now. Because there are so many people that reach out to me on on LinkedIn or, you know, on whatever social media or way to contact me, ask me about like one. like my pivot from mechanical engineering to tech and how do they get into it, like what's I changed for my resume, like and that. And it's just like this platform is going like all of that in one. It's just like I especially want to make sure that, you know, HSU students that may not know the first thing about this, they know like it's possible. 'Cause like they see, you know, me and my guy here and then, you know, someone else like Jason where it's like, it's very possible to do it. You just have to, you know, apply yourself and then get yourself in the right, right shoes. But a lot of times a lot of people just don't have the the guidance and the wherewithal to kind of like know how to how to get themselves into those doors. So yeah, no, I mean, like I said, I think it's just like like I said once again, like to reiterate, I think it's incredible to have you know, someone else on here who's also kinda like building and and still doing, you know, on the on the outside of their their kind of like main responsibility. So nah, yeah, this is this is good stuff, bro, for sure. Thomas: Yeah. Malcolm: yeah, my phone, go ahead. Thomas: I was just gonna say, 'cause there there's a question coming up when I wanna get to but we got some before that. It's just it's a fun question coming up in a little bit. I think a lot of Malcolm: yeah. Thomas: people might also be interested about. But but right now, right, I'm just saying that so people listening, man, stay tuned. keep listening and and thank you all for for checking in. but right now, Malcolm: No, for sure. Thomas: another another potential hot take, and I think this is important, Jason, like with what you're talking about with the future of space and all that. The AI, AI hype. Do you think that the AI hype right now is mostly real, mostly noise? Or you know, or or where does where does everybody disagree, you know, on that? Like what are you I guess like all of us, like what are our thoughts on AI? Like what do you think is gonna happen, you know? Just especially like in the field that you're in. Like I don't know. It's Malcolm: Mm. Thomas: a big part. So what what your thoughts? Jayson: Right, right, right. No, so AI hype is I mean it's real. I feel like it's super impactful. Like you can literally do anything with AI. especially being in tech and me working very computationally all the time. It's revolutionized everything I've done from doing my research to managing and like being able to make sure I stay organized. It it literally controls my life, like I'm not saying I put ever all my info in the AI, but like, you know, like there's a good amount in there. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? So Malcolm: Yeah, nah just ab just about. Yeah. Thomas: Right. Jayson: trying to protect myself by not telling everybody what I put out there on AI, but like it it helps me Thomas: Yeah. Jayson: it knows it pretty much knows me. So it can help me do everything I need to do. So all I'm gonna say about that. Thomas: You using a local model or like a y you know, open AI cloud, like one of the cloud models? Jayson: Yeah, so I'll be using I'll be using Cursor, which was pretty much just every model in one. But I really use Notion a lot to control everything. Like I could talk about that platform forever, so Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: it's just a way to organize everything, but it's connected to AI, so yeah, it's how I just remembered to do things, organize myself through undergrad completely with like classes, assignments, everything. So yeah, it's been really helpful in that way. Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: And then yeah, I'm just realizing like through my my brother actually just utilizing AI all the time. He does cybersecurity. It's really cool to see the type of work he does. you just do everything just from a desk. And so I just think you there's it's it's insane, you gotta get on and if you're not Malcolm: Yeah, bro. Like you you you gotta Yeah, no, I mean honestly I agree. I think it's I think it's definitely like I mean it's real. I mean you can't I mean I feel like the even if you like aren't all the way super like kind of like up to date with every single iteration of AI development, like I'm sure you've seen like how the the stock market has reacted over the last, you know, two, three years or so, right? Like if you if you follow like essentially like the the economy is pretty much being held up like on the bet of artificial intelligence, so it's like Whether you believe it or not, everything is kind of like like like tearing on on this being helpful. And I think I think AI hype is real. I think it's just like people just sometimes have a hard time kind of like delineating like what the phases of AI are. I think like the first couple of years was kind of like everyone was trying to like just get the most, you know, you know, compute power like with building all these data centers Jayson: Mm-hmm. Malcolm: and and and getting all these GPUs and CPUs to power their infrastructure. And I think now we're kind of like in the point where it's like, all like even when you see like these earning reports for different companies like like Meta who just tanked after they had theirs, like now people are looking for like, okay, what's the actual return on investment for all these billions of dollars you're spending on these data centers? Like like what are you actually getting back? Like how are how is your company becoming more productive? How are you guys optimizing workflows? Like now people are actually looking for like the okay, like we know what AI is, but what can it actually do, you know, besides like summarize notes and transcribe and so now people are looking like the real, I think, applications of it. and I think that's kind of like where why we've kind of seen like this big kind of platform shift to like agency AI and and and you know, MCPs and understanding like like how do you like how AI can work on behalf of us. So yeah, I mean I I definitely think it's real. I think kind of like it also feeds into the question. I think it's also like a another application of the question, just like how does that affect like the job market and how does that affect like, you know, people who are studying like stuff like computer science? And so it's like now people are like having these discussions about like what's what jobs and professions aren't Able be replaced by AI. and it's like that's a conversation I think we're gonna just keep having like as the job market continues to get like hopefully not worse and worse, but more than likely will. but I think a lot of it comes down to just the way that these big corporations are kind of like justifying these huge layoffs and cuts. Like like people are like cutting off thousands of people's jobs for the sake of AI. and it's just like that that's what's gonna make everybody think that it's but I feel like people are a lot of companies do use it as a cop out too. Like they don't actually like they just want to use it as a reason to like fire more people and and increase gross margin and profits and just Jayson: Mm. Malcolm: be greedy. So yeah, I feel like it's it's a it's a ton like ways you can go down. I think I mean like in summary though, I definitely do think the AI hype is real. It's just like a I think like if you don't like I think it is, you are definitely more like likely to get replaced if you don't at least attempt to understand. Like I'm not saying you don't have to be an AI Jayson: yeah, yeah, for sure. Malcolm: guru, like you I'm not saying you have had to work at Google DeepMind. For fifteen years, but I'm saying like you should at least know how to like use these tools and have a basic understanding of it to keep up with times for real. Jayson: Yeah. That's like the a perspective I didn't really think about when you asked the question in terms of like how Like that I I was thinking more of in terms of like for me, like how useful it's been but I can definitely see I can see it from like a a perspective of like the world and like capitalism and how people are trying to literally put AI on this outer space, which I think is like insane. Yeah, it is insane. Malcolm: Yeah. I'm telling it's insane, bro. Jayson: I guess it's like another perspective in terms of like in the education side of how AI is just Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Jayson: like like you said with computer science, completely revolutionizing how people are learning, and how it's actually affecting like smaller institutions like HBCUs dramatically as well and on both sides. So where restrictions or legislation on how students use AI and that's something that's still like really being thought about today on how we like manage our classes and the education system to change with AI and I think I mean it's it I think we're too slow on how we're changing how we utilize AI already and that just kinda sh talks about how the AI hype is real. 'Cause students aren't really learning they're c learning completely different ways than they used to in the past. And I think it's really important that we have to acknowledge that, and change the ways that our professors teach, and how degrees are like affected because an a a a degree in computer science is not as valuable as it was before. Or it's just not the effect is just not the same, so Thomas: That's facts. That's facts. I think really realistically too, you gotta think like I've I've actually seen some people say, you know, they're telling their family members not even to go to college if they're trying to go for computer science and just spend that money you would spend on college on AI, like spending on tokens, spend it on programs and learning the stuff at home. And realistically, if you're doing if you're just trying to code and build, you a lot of the people that do that stuff, I don't A lot of people made a lot of stuff without college. I mean, obviously we look at Mark Zuckerberg, you know, these like unicorn people, like one off examples. But now you can get such access to information. College is still great. I think there's a million reasons you should go, but if you're just looking Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Thomas: purely at like education, AI can also help you learn a lot. And I think it works best in tandem with college. and and I think like just for for my thoughts on the question, AI hype is real. un I don't want to say unfortunately. Only reason it's unfortunate is because of the way people don't know when to stop and how it's gonna be you know, cap capitalism basically is gonna ruin it. As it's they're just gonna make it what they want it to be and then kind of cut some people off and you know, government's gonna get involved, which we saw the first time the government issued some form of control over with the mythos situation, or Fable Five with Claude or Anthropic. And you know, and I also think I was talking to somebody at work recently about this who's super knowledgeable about this stuff. we have to think about long-term what AI is for. AI is not here to help us have chatbots and help you organize Excel sheets and make presentations and send Teams messages. It helps with that stuff. But every major revolution in human history was about reducing the jobs, reducing tasks people had to do. Before people had grocery stores and factories to do stuff, people were doing this stuff by hand. So then what did we do? We we had a revolution around it and reduced those jobs. So now pe everyone's not going out killing their own food. People aren't making their own clothes. So we have to think, you know, what are the jobs that we do now that we don't necessarily have to? Obviously that's not all jobs. There are jobs people still need to do, Malcolm: Mm-hmm. Thomas: humans need are needed for, but it's like, you know, something that's really gonna change humanity. What is that next? And that goes back to what Jason said before about space travel. Or not not travel necessarily, but treating spaces like where we have airplanes, thinking about the future. And I think it connects also to what Elon Musk has said about universal pay. Ideally, I think when he says that, he's referring to things are gonna become simplified. We'll have robots, we'll have AI, we'll have all these things that do these jobs for us that a lot of people necess won't necessarily have anything they need to do. So if you're not in a specialized area where you're either building this stuff or, you know, a doctor or something. Where, you know, even if robots became doctors, I don't a lot of people probably wouldn't be comfortable with that for a few generations. yeah, having Malcolm: Yeah. Thomas: a robot, but you know, just thinking like long term, like eventually there will be more people than there are jobs to be done. So, you know, that that might be a consideration as well. You just gotta hope there's universal pay where everyone has good quality of life rather than the haves and the have nots. Malcolm: Yeah. Nah, that's a good point, bro. We nah, this is this is like definitely great trying like like feedback from from everybody in the in the discussion. But we before we do, like I know we're coming up close on time here, we two more kind of like just just round table discussions here. or d discussing questions that we wanted to kind of walk through. So other one like this is a kinda like a little I guess like like different than like the the whole episode so far, but it's still I guess kinda like 'cause I know it's a it's a bunch of like like read people that be that that that listen to this bro but like this obviously another like kind of like HBC piece so it's like this one I think we can both kind of like speak to our like like respective organizations. Like I said mention I mentioned earlier like so Jason's a brother Alpha Phi Alpha Fernand Incorporated. I obviously in cap off stoping incorporated I just want to ask like this is like I think like TikTok has made this like a million times worse. But Jayson: Ha. Malcolm: like like what's like a what's like a Not even like what's a r a rivalry or stereotype between both organizations that you think most people get get wrong? Jayson: Well one thing is not everybody's trying to stroll. Like I know plenty of bros that don't be trying to stroll, they hate strolling, so it's like, you know, there's a lot Malcolm: Yeah, bro. Yeah, bro. Jayson: more behind it than, you know, dancing, you know, or whatever you wanna whatever most people see it as in front of a you know, and on social media and things like that. So I think you know, a lot of it is about like service and things like that, impacting your community, stuff like that as well. And I just think that's one of the biggest things people get wrong, so just gotta put that out there. Malcolm: Yeah. Nah, yeah, no, I I I agree, but I think I I th I think it's that bro. I think like TikTok has definitely made it like very like it made it made it easy to kind of like highlight that part of Greek life, but not any of the other stuff. Jayson: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Malcolm: And I think that's kinda like I mean, I don't I don't think I've ever I don't remember the last time I've ever like on like just randomly scrolled on TikTok and seen like a community service or like a civic engagement or like Jayson: Mm mm, mm, mm. Malcolm: a you know, some of the other stuff that our organization were founded for, like highlighted video that actually went viral. It's Jayson: Right, right, right, right. Malcolm: always a stroll video or like a Jayson: someone some crazy thinness happened where it suddenly got shut down, yeah, Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: like Malcolm: You feel me? So it it's it's always I feel like it's either like the really good or the really bad Jayson: Yeah. Malcolm: that gets that gets highlighted a lot. And I think like obviously like strolling's one thing. I think just kinda like the I feel like people like especially when it comes to like like just like in particular like Capac Alphas, like I think there's like this kind of like just like like mental image that most people have like in their head, just like You can literally go if you if you go to any like random person that isn't super, super like affiliated with Jayson: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Malcolm: Greek life, they don't really follow too much, they they will probably classify it as alphas are like, you know, studious, you know, academic achiev achievement, Jayson: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Malcolm: kappas, pretty boys and then and accused like like like dumb like football players or jocks that just like like it's I feel it's a very like Jayson: Yeah, yeah, like Malcolm: it's a very like I don't know the word describe, it's a very like narrow minded Yeah, it's a I was like I I'm not even gonna say inter because I everybody don't care enough about like Jayson: Ignorant. Yeah, I'm just put out there, yeah. Yeah, no for sure. Malcolm: Greek life to follow, but it's like that'd be like the main kind of like way they they I feel like they a lot of people kinda categorize the the brothers and each of the organizations Jayson: Fishing. Malcolm: but nah. Yeah, it definitely it definitely can get you know, a little like I said, like Apps like taste, like I said, like I think highlight the wrong stuff. Jayson: Yeah. Malcolm: But like I said, it's definitely, you know, anybody listening, bro, like definitely great organizations that both do good things like, you know, in their own right. So please don't think like people just joining just to, you know, stroll all Jayson: Yeah. Malcolm: that good stuff. But but yeah, nah, like we did want to like I said, close out with with like a piece of piece of advice from from each of us. like for the for the closing round question, we wanted to ask, like, what's one piece of advice each of us would give a black engineering or computer science student right now who's trying to figure out their next two years? Like, what are you telling them, like, all right, like you could just share a piece of advice to a student that's coming through, trying to figure out what's next? Like, like what's what's one piece of advice you guys would share with them to kind of like help? help give them some stability as they as they move forward with their journey. Jayson: I would start off by saying do what you love, you know, find a project that's something that's very interesting to you 'cause that could teach you more about what you actually like doing. And I think it's really impressive and something that makes you stand out. So especially in a market where it's kinda hard to find opportunities, you can create your own opportunities by creating something yourself. And I think that's really something that'll like diversify yourself through a lot of the other people who are in the same field as you. and just keep she just keep pushing that way because it's easier Malcolm: Yeah. Jayson: than ever now to create something. And so doing that can be very, very beneficial and it'll take you a long way. But Malcolm: Yeah. for sure. Thomas: That's great advice. I I was gonna say something similar, bro. I mean, you said you said it well. Like, I mean, I I would just say, like, on top of you know, doing something that you love, just don't be afraid to fully step into it. Don't don't do no half stepping. Don't, you know, just just creep into it. Like, this is the time now. You're in college, go for it. If it fails, it fails. You know, you don't have a family, depending on your situation. You don't have a family to take care of. you know, you you don't have dependents, you you don't have a house, you don't have a you don't have all these things to lose. So just just go all in within reason. You know, I mean, we have an example here of somebody who started something in school. Just just do it, figure out what you love, what you don't, determine your passion because once you get out of school and you're in the real world, it's so hard to like find what you're passionate about, find what your purpose is, find what you care about. So just try to try different things out in school and just don't be in a situation where you look back and say, I wish I could have done something. Just do it. Jayson: Mm, absolutely. Malcolm: Yeah. Nah. Yeah, that's facts. I think I think just kinda to close out, I think the piece of advice I'd give to a, you know, up and coming engineer student, I'd just be like, you know, I'd say don't limit yourself. and I think like obviously that's pretty it sounds pretty cliche, but what I mean by that is like like I've tell and I tell people this all the time, bro. Like don't don't kind of like bound yourself to like whatever your major is. Like don't feel like like that's all you can be. And I think like it's easier for us because like we're like you said at the beginning of the episode, like mechanical engineering, I I I chose it for the same reason. Like it's the to me it's the most And still is the most like versatile like major that you can the engineering major or engine engineering discipline, in my opinion. Between like see if it's either between that or like maybe like you know, computer engineering or electrical because they're those are kinda like two degrees in one in a sense. But like in the sense of like like how many different like pathways you can go. Like I within mechanical engineering you can go into engineering, you can go into tech, you can go into supply chain, you can go into business, you can go into like like there are so many different ways and I think like That was kind of like my mindset, my motto when I was kind of like coming through undergrad. I was like, I'm not just gonna be a mechanical engineer, like I'm gonna like mechanical engineering is like my field of study, but I'm I can be anything that, you know, I apply to obviously within reason. Like I'm not saying I'm gonna be, you know, something like complete like a like a lawyer with a mechanical engineering. I don't plan on going like something like that. But in a sense of like like don't feel like, you know, if you're an industrial engineering student, don't feel like you can only do industrial engineering internships. Like obviously if that's what you're interested in and and you wanna stay that path and then do it. But don't feel like you have to stay in the the kind of like imaginary box that is your major because that major isn't designed to keep you in the same in my opinion, I don't think your major is designed to keep you in the same roles, but I think it's it's built to kind of like unlock you and and let you know and enable you to be able to like get into your roles and more. Like I think like being able to work across several disciplines and and and being like like being versatile, I think that makes you a an even more like incredible candidate. Like like I said, I'm looking at a resume and I see someone who's done like like I said like to any of our resume, someone like someone Jason's who's done a ton of research and they've also have had professional experience like that, that pops out to me. Like, you know, if I if I see someone with a mechanical engineering background that knows the hand zone, that knows the thermodynamics and the heat transfer and then the fluids and the calculus and the physics, but they have experience like being a product manager in tech or or doing something in a supply chain, it's like, okay, like I know you can I know you like I know that the one thing that shows me is that you're willing to learn and you're not afraid of a challenge. Jayson: Mm. Malcolm: Like because for me, you know, speaking for for me, like I know I'm sure Thomas can relate to this as well, but like going to companies like Apple and Microsoft, like, like, me personally, I don't do what I work on now has nothing to do with what I did in undergrad, bro. Like not like I work on a on an AI infrastructure high performance computing team. So I work I nothing I do now I didn't in undergrad, bro. I'm not doing any type of any type of heat transfer or thermo. And it's like it's Jayson: True. Hmm. Malcolm: completely different in that sense. But it's just like the fact that I'm willing to bet on myself to make that 180 and to still like keep up with people who have been doing this all their lives is like, that speaks volumes about about about me and my people who are willing to make that switch. So that's why I tell anybody that's that's up and coming, bro. Like, like I said, don't feel like your major is a box breast. If anything, it's a it's a launch pad, bro. Like you can go any, any which way you want to go with it. like I said, don't feel like you gotta you you got you gotta stay in that kind of that kind of field, bro. But but yeah, dog, that's like yeah, no that's that's that's that's everything we had today, man. Like I said, I wanna also like I said, just once again kinda like Like thank Jason for being our first guest. Thomas: Thanks. Malcolm: incredible guest, awesome background. he has a lot going on for himself. Like I said, yeah, I he's gonna do great things at Stanford and beyond. So yeah, definitely like I said, like like be on the lookout for bro. Like I'm sure you're gonna be in the headline somewhere. I might say, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, drop your at all that, bro. Thomas: Hey, tell us where to plug your plug information, bro. Tell tell the people where to get at you. Jayson: Yeah, you know, Instagram, yeah, at Jason dot Johnson with an N at the end. that's and Rooted, you know, check out Rooted campus app platform. But we have information for everybody on there. Like I said, sports is coming soon, so definitely check that out. but yeah, nah, Malcolm: For sure. Jayson: this this podcast is amazing. I'm very honored to be, you know, a guest on here, talking about amazing things and really helpful for a lot of people. So definitely like y'all gotta keep doing what y'all are doing. This is great. Malcolm: Appreciate you, dog. And yeah, like I said, everybody Thomas: Yes, sir. Appreciate you, man. Malcolm: that that that tuned in, man, like I said we appreciate everybody that's been listening. I think we just I don't know. I didn't check the numbers yet. I think we just recently hit like across like like 4,500 streams. Some something like that. But like like I said, like I said, we started this podcast like at the beginning of the year on like a like some like not like as like a hobby, but like some, all like let's go ahead and do this, bro. We've kind of like I said, we're not like a huge platform yet, but the fact that we about to hit like without any like crazy Jayson: Gonna be. Gonna be Malcolm: You feel me? Like if that's that's Thomas: Gotta be A. Malcolm: the goal, bro. But it's like without any like crazy promotion or like collabs or anything like that, like we've kind of like built this like really organic podcast. It gets us like week over week, like just been building and building and building. I think like, you know, I think just recently, I think like the last 30 days or something like that, I think we have like had like over a thousand new streams across like YouTube, podcasts, Spotify. So it's like it's definitely growing, bro. Like it may not always feel like that on like like Instagram and stuff like that, but we do appreciate everybody that's kind of like tuned in, listens to us. Anybody I know it's sometimes people that come up to me in person, like whenever I'm out in like Maryland and DC that say they listen. like I said, we we appreciate all y'all and and hey we're gonna we're gonna see y'all again, man, for sure. Thomas: Four thousand six hundred and fifty one streams. Malcolm: Yeah. Like I said, it's it's it's it's up and coming, bro. Like I said, we're gonna try to we're gonna try to hit our number by the end of the year, man. And like I say we we're gonna keep it pushing though. But yeah, once again though, like I said, we definitely wanna appreciate Jason for for coming on and and talking a little bit about his background and like I say, stay tuned. We're gonna try to keep keep having, you know, some more amazing people on our on our platform, man. Thomas: Thanks, thanks. All right. Malcolm: Yeah. Appreciate y'all y'all good one, man. Jayson: Yeah, how are we going? Thomas: Peace.