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Former Homicide Prosecutor Matt Murphy Talks Rex Heuermann · Beyond The Horizon

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome back to the program. In
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: today's episode we're going to spin back over to Gilgo
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Beach and we're going to get an update on Rex
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  Speaker 1: Uerman and what one expert says he might have done
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  Speaker 1: to help keep DNA from transferring from himself to his victims.
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  Speaker 1: This article is from the US Sun and the headline,
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  Speaker 1: Without a Trace. Gilgo Beach suspect Rex Uerman wore a
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  Speaker 1: gown like popular TV serial killer to avoid leaving DNA.
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  Speaker 1: theorizes expert. And hey, look, it's possible. I think it
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  Speaker 1: all depends on where these murders took place. If he
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  Speaker 1: was killing them at his house, he had ample time,
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  Speaker 1: ample opportunity, and certainly everything you would need to put
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  Speaker 1: on some kind of gown, right? And according to the investigators,
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  Speaker 1: and according to the search of Rex Uerman's home, it
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  Speaker 1: seems to me anyway that they're leaning in that direction.
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  Speaker 1: that at least one of those murders, if not all
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  Speaker 1: of them, occurred in that home. And if they did
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  Speaker 1: occur in that home, he easily could have had some
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  Speaker 1: kind of outfit, some kind of suit he wore, in
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  Speaker 1: order to keep the DNA from transferring. Now, again, this
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  Speaker 1: is just speculation and just a theory on this expert's part.
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  Speaker 1: But considering the DNA that was found on the victims
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  Speaker 1: was basically all mitochondrial, that would mean that Heuermann was
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  Speaker 1: going through at least the procedures and the process to
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  Speaker 1: try and keep that DNA from transferring. Today's article is
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  Speaker 1: authored by Steve Brenner. Gilgo Beach suspect Rex Uerman is
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  Speaker 1: cut from the same cloth as TV serial killer Dexter
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  Speaker 1: with the pair focusing on leaving behind as little DNA
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  Speaker 1: evidence as possible. A prosecutor who is not involved with
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  Speaker 1: the case has claimed, When Dexter was leading a murderous
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  Speaker 1: double life in the smash hit TV show, he covered
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  Speaker 1: his tracks completely. No one knew he was part forensic investigator,
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  Speaker 1: part serial killer with an insatiable thirst for violence. Top
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  Speaker 1: homicide prosecutor Matt Murphy has solved countless bloody murders in
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  Speaker 1: a stellar 17-year career, and as he surveys the aftermath
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  Speaker 1: and prosecution of the Gilgo Beach murders, the California-based expert
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  Speaker 1: has a striking theory. Architect Rex Uerman, who stands accused
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  Speaker 1: of three murders and is the prime suspect of a fourth,
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  Speaker 1: seemingly evaded authorities in Suffolk County, New York for more
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  Speaker 1: than a decade before being arrested in July. Well, I
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  Speaker 1: think a lot of that has to do with the
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  Speaker 1: fact that Burke was leading a group of morons, let's
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  Speaker 1: just call them what they will, when he was running
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  Speaker 1: the show in Suffolk County. And if it wasn't for
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  Speaker 1: his incompetence, I think that this case would have been
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  Speaker 1: solved a whole lot sooner. Him getting rid of the FBI,
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  Speaker 1: them not following up on tips, all of that led
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  Speaker 1: to Rex Uerman getting away with his crimes, allegedly, for
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  Speaker 1: all this time. He was charged with three counts of
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  Speaker 1: first-degree murder and three counts of second-degree murder after the
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  Speaker 1: bodies of four female sex workers were discovered in Gilgo Beach,
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  Speaker 1: New York, between December 2010 and December of 2011. Murphy,
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  Speaker 1: like everyone else, who's been stunned at the grisly events,
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  Speaker 1: was astounded at how the alleged killer stayed under the
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  Speaker 1: radar for so long. And again, I think it's bad
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  Speaker 1: police work. There was the evidence right there for them
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  Speaker 1: to pop this dude. So I don't know how much
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  Speaker 1: credence I put in to Rex Uriman being some kind
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  Speaker 1: of arch criminal here, some kind of criminal mastermind who
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  Speaker 1: was carefully and diligently covering his steps every step of
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  Speaker 1: the way. He points to the meticulous methods used in
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  Speaker 1: the sickening killings of Melissa Bartholomew, 24, Megan Waterman, 22,
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  Speaker 1: and Amber Costello, 27. Heuermann, who has pleaded not guilty,
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  Speaker 1: is also the prime suspect in the death of 25-year-old
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  Speaker 1: Maureen Brainerd Barnes. I think when all the evidence comes out,
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  Speaker 1: it will show the killer went to great lengths to
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  Speaker 1: avoid detection, Murphy told the U.S. Sun at CrimeCon in Orlando, Florida.
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  Speaker 1: If anyone has seen Dexter, they will have watched him
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  Speaker 1: gown up and take great care. I think Heuermann was
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  Speaker 1: doing something like that. It's fascinating. There's no doubt that
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  Speaker 1: he could have been doing that. But I don't think
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  Speaker 1: he's some kind of great mastermind criminal. My guess is
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  Speaker 1: that he was wearing some kind of protection on his
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  Speaker 1: clothes if he was dismembering people. But I think framing
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  Speaker 1: Rex Uerman as somebody who's evaded capture by diligence or
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  Speaker 1: by anything besides police negligence for this long is a
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  Speaker 1: bit of a stretch. Murphy explains that when forensic scientists
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  Speaker 1: investigate evidence found at murder scenes, there are two types
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  Speaker 1: of DNA that could be present. The presence of nuclear
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  Speaker 1: DNA present in blood or saliva, for example, has a
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  Speaker 1: complete genetic profile which effectively ties any crime to a suspect.
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  Speaker 1: But mitochondrial DNA, which can be found in hair, teeth,
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  Speaker 1: and nails, doesn't instantly provide the same kind of accuracy,
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  Speaker 1: but remains a key part of any investigation like the
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  Speaker 1: shocking Gilgo Beach murders. One of the victims, Waterman, was
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  Speaker 1: found with a strand of the 59-year-old's hair, while all
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  Speaker 1: three of the victims Heuermann has been charged with killing
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  Speaker 1: were found with female hairs traced back to his wife,
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  Speaker 1: authorities claimed. So unless his wife, Asa Ellerup, was doing
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  Speaker 1: this killing, then those hairs were obviously transferred from Rex
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  Speaker 1: Heuermann himself or at the house where we saw police
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  Speaker 1: tear the place apart for over 12 days. That hair
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  Speaker 1: didn't just magically appear on these women. It didn't get
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  Speaker 1: up and walk over there no more than Brian Koberger's
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  Speaker 1: knife sheath got up and walked from his house to
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  Speaker 1: Maddie and Zanna's house. So Rex Uriman finds himself in
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  Speaker 1: kind of the same predicament. And this DNA evidence that
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  Speaker 1: they have against them, in my opinion anyway, is very strong.
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  Speaker 1: And again, what we'll see here is Rex Uriman's lawyers
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  Speaker 1: attack the process because they're not going to be able
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  Speaker 1: to attack the evidence itself So it's going to be
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  Speaker 1: one of those situations where they attack the process and
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  Speaker 1: how the evidence was gathered. The problem for Heuermann, just
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  Speaker 1: like with Kohlberger again, is the buccal swab that was
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  Speaker 1: taken from Heuermann that ties him to all of this.
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  Speaker 1: So until he can explain that, he has his work
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  Speaker 1: cut out for him. It's all mitochondrial in this case,
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  Speaker 1: Murphy continues. The fact they made a case on hair
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  Speaker 1: means they didn't apparently have any other nuclear DNA, which
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  Speaker 1: for a serial rapist is very rare. So he's almost
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  Speaker 1: certainly using condoms when he would rape victims or figuring
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  Speaker 1: out some other way to clean off his nuclear DNA.
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  Speaker 1: And you would think that if somebody's trying to protect
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  Speaker 1: their DNA and not give out a profile that they
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  Speaker 1: would wear a condom, but we're not dealing with normal
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  Speaker 1: people here. We're dealing with people who are very sick,
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  Speaker 1: people who are very twisted, very demented, and most of
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  Speaker 1: these people have a very, very high opinion of themselves
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  Speaker 1: and their abilities. Meanwhile, most of them are absolute morons,
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  Speaker 1: as we come to find out in the aftermath of
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  Speaker 1: them getting arrested. Murphy draws parallels with the case of
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  Speaker 1: Rodney Alcala, the dating game killer, which he worked on
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  Speaker 1: back in 2011. Similar to the accused Heuermann, he evaded
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  Speaker 1: capture for a number of years before finally being pinned
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  Speaker 1: down for the brutal killings of seven women between 1971
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  Speaker 1: and 1979. He was a certifiable genius, Murphy says, of
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  Speaker 1: the twisted Alcala. He wasn't contemplating the idea of DNA
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  Speaker 1: coming out. Heuermann is a smart guy, too. He owns
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  Speaker 1: his architecture firm, and so absolutely, he's thinking about all
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  Speaker 1: the ways he can cover his tracks. Properly argued, it's
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  Speaker 1: a great case against them. He added, 100% it's a
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  Speaker 1: great case. And you know, Heuermann's team, they're going to
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  Speaker 1: look for every loophole and technicality to try and get
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  Speaker 1: out from under it. But I think they're going to
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  Speaker 1: be really up against it, folks. They're going to have
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  Speaker 1: a real difficult time here unburying themselves from this massive
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  Speaker 1: amount of evidence. And we don't even know what's going
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  Speaker 1: on behind the scenes. We have no idea what Tierney
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  Speaker 1: and Rodney Harrison have going on, what they have cooking.
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  Speaker 1: They've been talking to all kinds of sex workers. They've
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  Speaker 1: been expanding their investigation. So my guess is they have
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  Speaker 1: a lot more than we even know about. And for
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  Speaker 1: Rex Ewerman, that's obviously a terrible, terrible turn of events.
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  Speaker 1: And furthermore, I still think that he's going to be
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  Speaker 1: tied to bodies in other places in this country. Some
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  Speaker 1: of the most compelling evidence is the cell phones, how
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  Speaker 1: you'll have the victim's cell phone, his burner phone, and
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  Speaker 1: then his actual personal phone, all pinging off the same
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  Speaker 1: towers as he's traveling around between Long Island and Midtown
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  Speaker 1: Manhattan where he worked. I think that's really compelling. Yeah, well,
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  Speaker 1: you gotta explain how you had the phones of those
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  Speaker 1: sex workers, right? And while I'm all ears for that explanation,
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  Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to be one that anyone believes.
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  Speaker 1: Whatever explanation you could possibly come up with for having
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  Speaker 1: this victim's phone is obviously a lie and cover. You
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  Speaker 1: guys weren't friends. You weren't her confidant. You weren't her homegirl.
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  Speaker 1: You guys didn't hang out on the weekends down at
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  Speaker 1: the park eating chicken wings on the bench. So how
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  Speaker 1: did you get her cell phone? And then to have
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  Speaker 1: it ping the way it did and in the locations
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  Speaker 1: where they pinged? You add that with all of the
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  Speaker 1: DNA that's been collected here and what you have, in
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  Speaker 1: my opinion anyway, is a prosecutor's dream case to prosecute
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  Speaker 1: because everything is right there for you to get that conviction.
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  Speaker 1: The only question now is, is the prosecution going to
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  Speaker 1: be able to carry the ball over the goal line?
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  Speaker 1: And if so, how many more bodies are going to
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  Speaker 1: be tied to Rex Heuermann? All right, folks, that's going
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  Speaker 1: to do it for this one. If you'd like to
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: contact me, you can do that at BobbyCapucci at ProtonMail.com.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at ProtonMail.com. All of the information that goes
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: with this episode can be found in the description box.