Latest / The Paul Barron Crypto Show / Gold vs Tokenized Gold on Ethereum🔥Peter Schiff INTERVIEW

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Gold vs Tokenized Gold on Ethereum🔥Peter Schiff INTERVIEW · The Paul Barron Crypto Show

0:00
Speaker 1: Let's dive into where the markets are heading today, and
0:02
Speaker 1: we're going to be talking about gold and we'll have
0:04
Speaker 1: Peter Shift joining us. Let's just jump right in. I
0:06
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0:08
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0:11
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0:37
Speaker 1: We're going to have Peter Shift joining us, which is
0:40
Speaker 1: coming over from Europacific Investments and Shift Gold. So how
0:43
Speaker 1: are you, Peter? I'm well, Paul, how are you Nice
0:47
Speaker 1: to see you? Glad to have you back on the show.
0:50
Speaker 1: Of course we got a chance to watch you and
0:52
Speaker 1: cz go head to head at it not too long ago.
0:56
Speaker 1: How do you think I think you've fared on the debate.
1:00
Speaker 2: Well, I think if you actually watched the debate.
1:03
Speaker 3: I mean, I obviously wanted I think I win all
1:05
Speaker 3: my crypto debates, my bitcoin debates. But obviously the bitcoin community,
1:11
Speaker 3: you know, made a big deal and tried to play
1:13
Speaker 3: it up as if somehow, you know, CZ got me
1:17
Speaker 3: because he hands me this kilo bar of gold that
1:21
Speaker 3: was made by I don't know, some independent you know,
1:24
Speaker 3: not a mint that anybody would know, and.
1:27
Speaker 2: Said, hey, is this genuine? Is this real?
1:29
Speaker 3: And of course nobody would know on the spot. I mean,
1:32
Speaker 3: I'm sure there's some gold in there, and maybe it's
1:34
Speaker 3: you know, got all the gold that is that it
1:36
Speaker 3: claims to have, but you know, you wouldn't know for
1:39
Speaker 3: sure unless you did a simple assay. But I didn't
1:42
Speaker 3: have any of that you know stuff with me that
1:44
Speaker 3: I could do that. But you know, the whole trick
1:47
Speaker 3: was really, uh, you know, irrelevant, because first of all,
1:51
Speaker 3: we were debating bitcoin versus h tokenized gold, and so
1:57
Speaker 3: tokenized gold is every bit as verified as bitcoin because
2:01
Speaker 3: it works on the same principle of a blockchain, and
2:04
Speaker 3: and so you know, you would never be in the
2:06
Speaker 3: situation where you know, you would have to authenticate gold.
2:10
Speaker 3: Uh you know, you would that that that would be
2:13
Speaker 3: what the custodian of the gold would do before he's
2:16
Speaker 3: ognized it. So that's that's number one. But number two,
2:20
Speaker 3: you know, when you look at an actual gold standard,
2:23
Speaker 3: when people were were conducting commerce and gold, if you
2:27
Speaker 3: wanted to buy something, you didn't just walk in, you know,
2:31
Speaker 3: with a big chunk of gold. You use coins, you know,
2:34
Speaker 3: usually minted by the government, which were easily recognizable as legitimate.
2:40
Speaker 3: Uh they're legal tender and and so you knew that
2:44
Speaker 3: they were real. You didn't have to bother to study it.
2:47
Speaker 3: I mean, you could just compare it to one that
2:49
Speaker 3: you already had, you know, make sure it looks exactly
2:51
Speaker 3: the same. You could, you know, drop it on the
2:54
Speaker 3: table and make sure it makes the right sound compared
2:56
Speaker 3: to the sound that the coin you have makes. In fact,
3:00
Speaker 3: a lot of people in the bitcoin community they talk
3:02
Speaker 3: about sound money and they think that it applies to
3:05
Speaker 3: bitcoin when it does not.
3:06
Speaker 2: But they don't even realize the origin of the term.
3:09
Speaker 3: The reason that they call gold sound money is because
3:13
Speaker 3: when you drop it on a table, it makes a noise,
3:16
Speaker 3: you know, as opposed to bills that make no noise because.
3:19
Speaker 2: They're just paper.
3:20
Speaker 3: But you know, the trick obviously worked within the bitcoin community.
3:25
Speaker 3: In that echo chamber, they're all trying to you know,
3:28
Speaker 3: validate their own position confirmation bias, So they just want
3:35
Speaker 3: to assume that I lost the debate because you know,
3:38
Speaker 3: they're completely drunk on the bitcoin kool a.
3:41
Speaker 1: Well, looking at the data in terms of bitcoin and
3:45
Speaker 1: gold right now, gold has actually been outperformed. If you
3:48
Speaker 1: just look at bitcoin price and gold price search terms,
3:51
Speaker 1: gold continues to really out track all the way back
3:55
Speaker 1: to twenty eighteen. There was some times in there where
3:58
Speaker 1: bitcoin came above it, but most of the time it's
3:59
Speaker 1: been leading the way in terms of search terms, which
4:03
Speaker 1: usually indicates there's a lot more interest there when you
4:06
Speaker 1: think about that, and then what we're seeing in the media,
4:10
Speaker 1: and this is something that came from your ex account
4:13
Speaker 1: and this was in reference to squawk box. Do you
4:15
Speaker 1: feel like the media talks too much about you know,
4:19
Speaker 1: digital assets as a whole and not enough about gold.
4:21
Speaker 1: Is that your case?
4:23
Speaker 2: Well, certainly the financial media does.
4:25
Speaker 3: I mean, they talk incessantly about bitcoin and they rarely
4:28
Speaker 3: mentioned cold. Now, when you did that Google search query,
4:32
Speaker 3: did you localize that to the United States or is
4:35
Speaker 3: that the entire.
4:35
Speaker 1: World worldwide, worldwide, right there.
4:38
Speaker 3: Well, now, I bet if you just I think if
4:40
Speaker 3: you change the geographics to the United States, my guess
4:45
Speaker 3: it would be that there's more searches for bitcoin. We'll see,
4:48
Speaker 3: because I think worldwide, yeah, bitcoin is not nearly as popular,
4:52
Speaker 3: you know, let's say, in China or India as as
4:56
Speaker 3: it is in the United States.
4:58
Speaker 2: You asked, right there, you.
4:59
Speaker 1: Are correct, But obviously we're talking about global assets here
5:03
Speaker 1: in whole.
5:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I'm talking about the media in the United
5:06
Speaker 3: States and American citizens because I think Americans are disproportionally
5:11
Speaker 3: invested in bitcoin. In fact, I think more than half
5:14
Speaker 3: of all the bitcoin owners in the world live in
5:18
Speaker 3: the United States, and so obviously we're a small percent
5:22
Speaker 3: of the world's population, yet we have more than half
5:25
Speaker 3: of the world's bitcoin.
5:25
Speaker 2: So I think that.
5:27
Speaker 3: You know, it's not limited to America, obviously, you know,
5:30
Speaker 3: I just got back from a conference in Dubai, and
5:33
Speaker 3: you know, I know there are people all around the
5:34
Speaker 3: world that own bitcoin, but unfortunately, uh, you know, it's
5:39
Speaker 3: we're way over represented here in the United States in
5:43
Speaker 3: the number of people who have been you know, suckered
5:45
Speaker 3: into this thing.
5:46
Speaker 2: And so that's unfortunate.
5:47
Speaker 3: And it's not just because of all the money that
5:50
Speaker 3: Americans are going to lose who have bought bitcoin, but
5:54
Speaker 3: we have created a lot more bitcoin companies than other
5:59
Speaker 3: nations have, and so when all those companies go bankrupt,
6:03
Speaker 3: which of course they will, it's going to have a
6:06
Speaker 3: more adverse impact on our economy. We could have used
6:10
Speaker 3: those resources more productively as a nation, but we didn't
6:15
Speaker 3: do that because they ended up getting wasted on crypto
6:20
Speaker 3: industries that are not viable and don't produce anything productive.
6:24
Speaker 1: Well, I think you know, tokenization, when we're talking about
6:27
Speaker 1: bitcoin versus the rest of digital assets, tokenization is a
6:31
Speaker 1: real use case that we are seeing on Wall Street.
6:34
Speaker 1: I think we'll continue to see that. But one thing
6:36
Speaker 1: I wanted to kind of compare this and probably what
6:39
Speaker 1: align with your thought process there, is that when you
6:42
Speaker 1: look at the ETFs, this is in reference to precious
6:45
Speaker 1: metals versus bitcoin and ethereum. I'll kind of zoom in
6:48
Speaker 1: on that for you. Right there, gold ETFs holding it
6:50
Speaker 1: around one seventy undred and seventy billion along with silver ETFs.
6:54
Speaker 1: But if you kind of compare the two gold and
6:56
Speaker 1: silver one hundred and seventy billion and here we are
6:59
Speaker 1: on bitcoin and a theory of ets holding it about
7:01
Speaker 1: one eighty to one hundred billion right now in terms
7:04
Speaker 1: of total assets. Why do you so you think it
7:07
Speaker 1: is because it's centralized here in the United States in
7:10
Speaker 1: terms of interest that has caused this to grow so quickly,
7:13
Speaker 1: because this has really only been in about the last
7:15
Speaker 1: year that's been able to get to half that of
7:18
Speaker 1: gold and silver. Is that would that be the same
7:20
Speaker 1: case as.
7:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think there's been such a massive
7:25
Speaker 3: marketing campaign on the part of the crypto industry, and
7:29
Speaker 3: I think the financial media has been complicit in that
7:32
Speaker 3: because they've received a lot of the ad dollars and
7:35
Speaker 3: I think, you know, they kind of have a quid
7:37
Speaker 3: pro quo behind the scenes. We are going to buy
7:40
Speaker 3: a lot of ads, and you're going to give us
7:42
Speaker 3: a lot of favorable press, and you're going to keep
7:46
Speaker 3: off the air people like Peter Schiff who might speak
7:49
Speaker 3: critically a bitcoin. We want to have all the publicity
7:53
Speaker 3: on one sided. One of the best things about bitcoin,
7:57
Speaker 3: right is that you don't need a third party to
7:59
Speaker 3: store I mean, that's a big selling point. You can
8:02
Speaker 3: sell stoage. So there should be no bitcoin ETFs anyway,
8:06
Speaker 3: because you defeat the main advantage that bitcoin supposedly has,
8:11
Speaker 3: because once you're going to own an ETF, well, hell,
8:13
Speaker 3: you might as well have one with gold.
8:15
Speaker 2: What's the point of having well with bitcoin, I think
8:17
Speaker 2: you can store it. You can store your bitcoin for free. Yeah.
8:20
Speaker 1: I think the argument there is always that there's complexities
8:23
Speaker 1: in any of these assets outside of going on to
8:26
Speaker 1: an exchange and being able to buy them, you know,
8:28
Speaker 1: whether you was buying a stock or if you're going
8:31
Speaker 1: on and buying physical gold. I know, for me, even
8:34
Speaker 1: even I though I will hold digitized digital gold, holding
8:37
Speaker 1: physical gold to me is still a little bit of
8:40
Speaker 1: a challenge because you do have to go through quite
8:42
Speaker 1: a bit then you have to store it get into
8:44
Speaker 1: all the Yeah, so I can. I mean that there's
8:46
Speaker 1: some value there. It's not that hard to store gold
8:49
Speaker 1: in particular. But yeah, I mean, if you have a
8:52
Speaker 1: lot of it, some people might be uncomfortable keeping it.
8:54
Speaker 2: At their house.
8:55
Speaker 3: They may want to keep it someplace safe. But you know, bitcoin,
9:00
Speaker 3: the people who own bitcoin ETFs by and large are
9:05
Speaker 3: not like hardcore bitcoin maxis.
9:08
Speaker 1: You don't think that's obviously huh, You don't think that's
9:12
Speaker 1: more institutional owning the ets No.
9:14
Speaker 3: I mean I mean some institutions, yes, because obviously, you know,
9:18
Speaker 3: if they're uh investing for third parties and they need
9:22
Speaker 3: a custodian and.
9:23
Speaker 2: But again they're just gambling on bitcoin.
9:26
Speaker 3: Those institutions are obviously not buying bitcoin, you know, to
9:31
Speaker 3: use it somehow for whatever it was designed for. They're
9:35
Speaker 3: simply betting on appreciation. That's the only reason they're buying it.
9:38
Speaker 3: They're saying, let's buy it because we think it's going
9:41
Speaker 3: to go up. They're not trying to get out of
9:42
Speaker 3: the system, you know, be anonymous, you know, stick it
9:46
Speaker 3: to the man, you know, kind of be self sovereign
9:49
Speaker 3: and self custody. They're not doing any of that. They're
9:52
Speaker 3: just buying it because they think it's going to go up.
9:55
Speaker 3: You know, they have to answer to their investors. They
9:58
Speaker 3: have to show their relative performance. And a lot of
10:01
Speaker 3: them bought these bitcoin ETFs because they expected it to
10:05
Speaker 3: improve their performance, because they thought bitcoin would go up.
10:08
Speaker 3: But when bitcoin ends up going down and it's dragging
10:12
Speaker 3: their performance, they'll kick it out of their portfolios. So
10:16
Speaker 3: that that is not sticky money. That money will will leave.
10:19
Speaker 3: And a point I wanted to make that it's because
10:21
Speaker 3: you brought it up. I don't want to forget. I
10:23
Speaker 3: like tokenization. I get that, and especially with gold. I
10:28
Speaker 3: mean I think gold lends itself to tokenization extremely well.
10:33
Speaker 3: And I mean that's why I set up t gold
10:34
Speaker 3: dot Com. And I would encourage you know, your listeners
10:38
Speaker 3: to go to t gold dot com, which is right
10:40
Speaker 3: now on shift gold and getting the count set up,
10:43
Speaker 3: and get ready to go and own some gold and
10:44
Speaker 3: silver that I will be able to tokenize and you'll
10:47
Speaker 3: be able to you know, put it, you know, bring
10:50
Speaker 3: it to your wallet. In fact, CZ is excited about
10:53
Speaker 3: listing my token on finance, so I mean we'll get
10:55
Speaker 3: a lot of liquidity in there in addition to you
10:58
Speaker 3: know the safety of gold. But most of the tokenization
11:04
Speaker 3: that is going on now is with dollars in stable coins.
11:09
Speaker 3: If they have a choice between tokenized gold and tokenized dollars,
11:13
Speaker 3: I think tokenied gold would win hands down. So it
11:16
Speaker 3: seems like it's a lot more viable for the world
11:19
Speaker 3: to use as an alternative to whatever currencies they may
11:22
Speaker 3: be stuck with.
11:24
Speaker 2: Tokenized gold.
11:24
Speaker 3: But most of what's being tokenized, even in the dollar
11:29
Speaker 3: space right the tether's you know whatever USDT. Almost all
11:34
Speaker 3: of that is used to facilitate crypto trading. And I
11:38
Speaker 3: remember ten years ago they were talking about tokenizing you know,
11:42
Speaker 3: real estate, or tokenizing stocks, or tokenizing the title to
11:46
Speaker 3: your car and all this stuff. But none of this
11:48
Speaker 3: stuff has even happened yet.
11:50
Speaker 1: Tokenization has really taken off, though, Peter. I mean, you
11:52
Speaker 1: just look at the global market overview, that's eighteen billion
11:55
Speaker 1: right now. Granted this is just the beginning, and this
11:58
Speaker 1: is lining up everything, including toized commodities. And if you
12:02
Speaker 1: look at taipos.
12:03
Speaker 2: What are people using those tokens for right now?
12:05
Speaker 1: Well, at some point I think we will see token
12:08
Speaker 1: is ised securities. Obviously that's a different game than what crypto.
12:12
Speaker 1: What you're talking about is crypto. It is so early
12:14
Speaker 1: in this in the game. I think right now for
12:17
Speaker 1: tokenization that a lot of what we're looking at, including
12:20
Speaker 1: token ized commodities, which is holding at what three point
12:23
Speaker 1: seven billion and only one hundred and seventy thousand holders,
12:27
Speaker 1: this should skyrocket into the millions, I would think. But
12:30
Speaker 1: I'm kind of curious what number could this reach? Do
12:33
Speaker 1: you think in terms of tokenized commodities, I don't know.
12:37
Speaker 3: I mean I mean, look, there's a lot of ways
12:39
Speaker 3: to buy I guess you could buy commodity ETFs, you
12:42
Speaker 3: could trade commodity futures.
12:44
Speaker 2: But if you're going to tokenize.
12:45
Speaker 1: Tether gold right there, and paxos primarily holding the top spots.
12:49
Speaker 3: Well, you're talking about gold, I'm you know, talking about
12:51
Speaker 3: all the other commodities that are there too. As I said,
12:54
Speaker 3: gold is probably the best commodity to token ie because
12:56
Speaker 3: it's the storage cost is relatively low.
13:01
Speaker 1: Well, gold, how big do you think that could be?
13:04
Speaker 2: I don't know.
13:05
Speaker 3: I mean I think that I think to the extent
13:08
Speaker 3: that governments leave it alone and don't over regulate it,
13:11
Speaker 3: you know, which is always a risk.
13:13
Speaker 2: But I think tokenized gold could be huge.
13:15
Speaker 3: I mean, it will be much bigger than bitcoin, and
13:18
Speaker 3: it'll be around after Bitcoin is just a memory and
13:22
Speaker 3: a bad memory for most people.
13:24
Speaker 2: Right.
13:24
Speaker 3: Even cz acknowledged all of the benefits that tokenized gold
13:28
Speaker 3: has over physical gold when it comes to using it
13:33
Speaker 3: as a medium of exchange. When people say bitcoin is
13:36
Speaker 3: digital gold, no, it's not. Tokenized gold is digital goal
13:40
Speaker 3: because there's actually representative of real gold that you own.
13:43
Speaker 1: Let's let's talk about that. Because I know that you
13:46
Speaker 1: guys have vault storage. You also have I think you
13:48
Speaker 1: guys sell safes and all that to where you can
13:50
Speaker 1: do physical asset holding. Is this a large percentage of
13:55
Speaker 1: what you think the business will be in the future.
13:57
Speaker 1: Do you think it's still going to be physical or
13:59
Speaker 1: do you think that we are in maybe an era
14:02
Speaker 1: where tokenized gold is literally going to take off.
14:05
Speaker 3: I think it will take off again if governments don't
14:10
Speaker 3: really put roadblocks there to prevent it from taking off, which.
14:13
Speaker 1: They might do they like, what what would that intol?
14:16
Speaker 3: Because you know, they may have some onerous KYC and
14:20
Speaker 3: AML stuff, or they may try to declare it security.
14:24
Speaker 2: I don't know.
14:25
Speaker 3: The governments will be very afraid of tokenized gold to
14:29
Speaker 3: the extent that real people really start to use it,
14:32
Speaker 3: because it competes with the dollar, it would compete with
14:35
Speaker 3: the euro, it would compete with all these currencies. The
14:38
Speaker 3: only reason that people use FIAT is because it's convenient
14:41
Speaker 3: as a medium exchange. But if you make using gold
14:45
Speaker 3: just as convenient as using FIAT, well then people are
14:48
Speaker 3: going to use gold.
14:49
Speaker 1: Peter, why wouldn't you go out? I know you're you're
14:52
Speaker 1: working on you know, basically con tokenized gold in terms
14:55
Speaker 1: of a product line, but why not go out and
14:57
Speaker 1: actually create a wallet. This is a good example, Tan.
15:00
Speaker 1: I know you can get xaut over there, which is
15:02
Speaker 1: Tether's gold packsos if you want to hold it over there.
15:05
Speaker 1: These are self custody wallets. And again, if we don't
15:09
Speaker 1: get into a situation where the US government starts to
15:12
Speaker 1: put a lot of you know, speculation of but why
15:14
Speaker 1: not why not a shift card doing something like that?
15:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, look, I started doing stuff like that
15:19
Speaker 3: up my bank and then I had to stop. I
15:20
Speaker 3: was the first one to have gold back debit cards.
15:22
Speaker 3: I did it like over ten years ago. We had
15:25
Speaker 3: customers that had gold in their account and I issued
15:27
Speaker 3: a debit card and they were able to spend their
15:29
Speaker 3: goal that they needed it. So I started a long
15:32
Speaker 3: time ago. But yeah, all this stuff is going to
15:34
Speaker 3: be built on to the t Gold platform. Debit cards,
15:38
Speaker 3: secured credit cards, wallets.
15:40
Speaker 2: You know, I'm going to build all that stuff. But
15:43
Speaker 2: I mean I got to do it one step at
15:45
Speaker 2: a time.
15:45
Speaker 3: And the first thing is I just had I rolled
15:48
Speaker 3: out the platform so people can start building up their
15:52
Speaker 3: accounts and filling it up with gold and silver. You know,
15:56
Speaker 3: I don't want people to wait because the price is
15:58
Speaker 3: just going to keep going up, and so they can
16:00
Speaker 3: buy it now and have it, and I can start
16:04
Speaker 3: building up you know this this part of it, the
16:06
Speaker 3: ecosystem of user a user base, because right now, to
16:10
Speaker 3: be honest, you wouldn't want to use your gold to
16:13
Speaker 3: pay for something if you could have dollars, spend those.
16:16
Speaker 3: You want to just save gold right now. But I
16:18
Speaker 3: believe at some point the merchants of this world, the
16:23
Speaker 3: people who have goods and services to sell, they're going
16:27
Speaker 3: to want to get paid in gold. They're not gonna
16:29
Speaker 3: want rapidly depreciating dollars. And so that's the point where
16:33
Speaker 3: you're really going to need to have an ability to
16:35
Speaker 3: pay in gold if the only way you can get
16:38
Speaker 3: stuff is to pay at gold. But right now people
16:41
Speaker 3: will take dollars, so spend them, you know, use them.
16:45
Speaker 1: Well, we could see a lot of new instruments out there.
16:48
Speaker 1: We've already seen this in DeFi this is a good example.
16:51
Speaker 1: This is oral finance. They are now generating yields from
16:55
Speaker 1: basically stable coin into gold that you know, tokenize gold.
16:59
Speaker 1: So we're going to see yields. Most likely, we'll probably
17:02
Speaker 1: see loans coming in on this as well, to where
17:04
Speaker 1: you could take loans against your your your stake dasset. Uh,
17:08
Speaker 1: that's a huge opportunity. Do you think the psychology of
17:12
Speaker 1: a gold bug is ready to make a shift to
17:15
Speaker 1: tokenized gold or do you think that's going to be
17:18
Speaker 1: a whole new market for tokenized gold?
17:21
Speaker 3: Well, I mean it's really no different in theory than
17:24
Speaker 3: an etf right. You just have a third party that's
17:26
Speaker 3: storing your gold, and so the physical gold buyer is
17:30
Speaker 3: going to always want physical custody of gold. And I
17:33
Speaker 3: still recommend that the only place where I'm saying to
17:36
Speaker 3: have tokenized gold is for the gold that you can
17:40
Speaker 3: use as a medium exchange. It's not really convenient in
17:45
Speaker 3: its in its bulliant form, yeah, for those purposes.
17:48
Speaker 1: So it's the only way, Peter, the future has got
17:53
Speaker 1: to be tokenized gold.
17:54
Speaker 4: I mean we're going to see all I mean repositories
17:58
Speaker 4: right obviously though, But look, you know, if the internet's
18:01
Speaker 4: down and the computers are down, you know you I
18:04
Speaker 4: like silver for those transactions that you can make person
18:07
Speaker 4: in person, you know, pay with a silver dime.
18:10
Speaker 1: Are you getting something for token I silver? Because that's
18:13
Speaker 1: something that's missing in the market right now.
18:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, we could tokenie silver as well.
18:18
Speaker 3: It's just that our storage costs will be higher because
18:20
Speaker 3: it's bulkier. Once you've tokenized it, you don't really need
18:23
Speaker 3: silver as much as gold. The reason that silver was
18:26
Speaker 3: popular for money is that there are some transactions that
18:30
Speaker 3: are so small it's hard to affect them in gold.
18:33
Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean, I think I think people are
18:35
Speaker 3: going to have both, you know, and and I think
18:38
Speaker 3: bitcoin is you know it well ish is finished.
18:42
Speaker 1: And let me ask you this about silver real quick,
18:44
Speaker 1: because we're on silver for a second. I think i've
18:48
Speaker 1: heard you talk about this is do you think there's
18:50
Speaker 1: a cabal that is controlling or manipulating the price of
18:55
Speaker 1: silver right now?
18:56
Speaker 2: Now?
18:56
Speaker 3: I think I think there have been a lot of
18:58
Speaker 3: shorts in silver. I don't think there's some kind of
19:02
Speaker 3: cabal of short sellars that secretly meet, but I think
19:07
Speaker 3: that there has been a lot of shorts and and
19:10
Speaker 3: and clearly they must be covering now because silver has
19:13
Speaker 3: been on a on a tear this year, I expect
19:16
Speaker 3: silver to go a lot higher, but I think we
19:18
Speaker 3: could see one hundred dollars silver.
19:22
Speaker 2: By next year.
19:23
Speaker 3: In fact, I remember, you know when silver really started
19:26
Speaker 3: to move earlier in the year, when it just got
19:28
Speaker 3: above thirty dollars on X I said, you know, silver
19:33
Speaker 3: is the new bitcoin. It's bitcoin two point oho. So
19:35
Speaker 3: if you really want a faster version of gold, just
19:38
Speaker 3: by silver. And since that post, the price of silver
19:43
Speaker 3: has almost doubled.
19:44
Speaker 2: Just since that.
19:44
Speaker 1: Cover seventy years, the price bigcoin's gone down August. Right now,
19:49
Speaker 1: Bitcoin's gone down.
19:51
Speaker 3: Bitcoin is more than forty percent below. This is in
19:53
Speaker 3: terms of goal. It's even worse in terms of silver.
19:56
Speaker 3: I think it's more than fifty percent down. But but
19:59
Speaker 3: Bitcoin is more than forty percent lower than it was
20:03
Speaker 3: four years ago. And in fact, micro Strategy right is
20:06
Speaker 3: the biggest Bitcoin buyer. Their average cost is almost seventy
20:12
Speaker 3: five thousand per bitcoin, and right now Bitcoin is barely
20:17
Speaker 3: above eighty five thousand. I mean, he's only got about
20:21
Speaker 3: a fifteen percent gain on his entire position that he's
20:26
Speaker 3: accumulated over five years. I mean, if he'd have bought
20:30
Speaker 3: anything else, any other asset class, he would be way
20:33
Speaker 3: better off. And the worst part for Strategy is he
20:36
Speaker 3: can't sell. Had he bought gold, for example, he could
20:40
Speaker 3: easily liquidate the whole thing, but he can't liquidate bitcoin
20:44
Speaker 3: at a profit. It would be a massive loss. But also,
20:47
Speaker 3: while I'm on that token, on that topic, you mentioned
20:51
Speaker 3: people using their digital assets as collateral for loans. That
20:56
Speaker 3: is okay with something like gold, but I think you're
21:00
Speaker 3: going to see a major collapse associated with leverage bitcoin
21:05
Speaker 3: because the market doesn't have the depth. I think you're
21:08
Speaker 3: going to see whosletsale liquidation. I think if bitcoin breaks
21:12
Speaker 3: below fifty thousand this which is very likely, I mean
21:15
Speaker 3: eventually it will anyway, but let's say within the next
21:18
Speaker 3: few months bitcoin goes below fifty thousand, I think it's
21:23
Speaker 3: going to trigger a lot of forced liquidations because I
21:26
Speaker 3: think a lot of the bitcoin loans were taken out
21:29
Speaker 3: with bitcoin above one hundred thousand, and I think the
21:33
Speaker 3: point at which they get liquidated is probably a fifty
21:36
Speaker 3: percent decline. The bitcoin holders aren't going to have a choice.
21:40
Speaker 3: Their Bitcoin's just going to get sold into the market
21:43
Speaker 3: at fifty thousand. It can go to thirty thousand or
21:46
Speaker 3: twenty thousand in a heartbeat.
21:48
Speaker 1: Peter, let's talk about going because obviously the market now
21:51
Speaker 1: evolving into a tokenized market. You guys, of course are
21:54
Speaker 1: building a tokenized gold, and you think about where all
21:58
Speaker 1: of this could take you. Why where are you guys
22:00
Speaker 1: not more bullish on ethereum with the potential of tokenization
22:05
Speaker 1: and it being able to grow at scale.
22:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean ethereum has some value, right, unlike
22:11
Speaker 3: bitcoin that really doesn't have any But but but ethereum
22:15
Speaker 3: has some value.
22:16
Speaker 2: How much I don't really know.
22:17
Speaker 3: I mean, I know that etherium has a lot of
22:20
Speaker 3: competition the transaction fees. I mean ethereum calls it gas.
22:24
Speaker 3: But I know that ethereum is relatively expensive to actually
22:27
Speaker 3: use compared to like a Solano, you know, or some
22:32
Speaker 3: of these other.
22:34
Speaker 2: Blockchains.
22:35
Speaker 1: That is being reduced though quite a bit with some
22:37
Speaker 1: of the advancements that in shift gold. Is that going
22:40
Speaker 1: to be on ether Yeah?
22:42
Speaker 3: Well, I you know, I mean what I would like
22:44
Speaker 3: the token to be because we don't even have it yet,
22:46
Speaker 3: But I'd like a chain agnostic kind of coin where
22:51
Speaker 3: the same coin can can move around various blockchains depending
22:55
Speaker 3: on the preference of the user. So yeah, I mean,
22:59
Speaker 3: I think ethereum has some value. I just don't know
23:03
Speaker 3: what it is. I don't think it's anywhere near the
23:05
Speaker 3: current market price, so I don't think an Ethereum token
23:08
Speaker 3: is worth three thousand dollars. Maybe it's worth three hundred dollars.
23:12
Speaker 3: I don't really know, but I don't want to gamble
23:15
Speaker 3: on it.
23:15
Speaker 2: I don't want to.
23:16
Speaker 3: I don't want to bet because I have no idea
23:19
Speaker 3: what it's worth. But I was getting it is worth something.
23:23
Speaker 3: I just don't know why.
23:25
Speaker 1: All right, Well, would tokenize, I mean, the tokenized asset
23:28
Speaker 1: I think is the upside uh for us? I mean
23:31
Speaker 1: we obviously look at ethereum as the technology of what
23:33
Speaker 1: could drive tokenization, you know, from here forward in.
23:37
Speaker 2: A big way.
23:37
Speaker 1: Would you say that ether is the chain that you
23:40
Speaker 1: would select for tokenized gold or would you look at
23:43
Speaker 1: it would.
23:43
Speaker 3: Not be well if the transaction costs were substantially reduced, perhaps, right,
23:49
Speaker 3: because if you just want to buy tokenized gold to
23:51
Speaker 3: store it, you know, you're really not getting any real
23:55
Speaker 3: value added.
23:57
Speaker 2: For the tokenized gold.
23:58
Speaker 3: Like especially, what I want to have people do at
24:01
Speaker 3: t gold is I'd like people's wages to be immediately
24:06
Speaker 3: converted into gold, you know, direct deposit, So somebody's paycheck
24:11
Speaker 3: is directly converted into gold when they earn it, and
24:14
Speaker 3: then they can start spending that. But you want to
24:17
Speaker 3: make sure the transaction costs are as low as possible
24:19
Speaker 3: so they don't lose as they spend. Now, ideally the
24:23
Speaker 3: employer will actually pay your wages in gold. You can
24:26
Speaker 3: negotiate pay in terms of goal. I want landlords to
24:30
Speaker 3: have rent, you know, in gold, hold security deposits in gold.
24:34
Speaker 2: You know, everybody just start using gold directly.
24:37
Speaker 3: But the key is to make sure that it's inexpensive
24:42
Speaker 3: to move it around. You know, whichever blockchain can do
24:44
Speaker 3: it the quickest and the fastest is is where we
24:47
Speaker 3: would you know, we would want it, you know, because
24:50
Speaker 3: the goal is safely stored in a vault, so you
24:52
Speaker 3: don't have to worry about losing the gold. You just
24:54
Speaker 3: need an effective way to manage it. And even like
24:58
Speaker 3: with with with security, with a tokenized gold too, even
25:01
Speaker 3: if you lost like your password or lost something, you
25:04
Speaker 3: can still come back to t gold and recover it
25:07
Speaker 3: because we could cancel that token that was stolen or
25:11
Speaker 3: lost an issue you a new one, right, because it's
25:14
Speaker 3: actually backed it's actually backed by gold, right. You know,
25:18
Speaker 3: each each token is specifically linked to a given bar,
25:23
Speaker 3: and so if that token is gone, it's all right,
25:26
Speaker 3: Well let's let's let's get rid of that one, right
25:28
Speaker 3: because you know.
25:28
Speaker 1: Well, I think the advantage that you're going to have
25:30
Speaker 1: with gold and tokenized gold to your point earlier that
25:34
Speaker 1: you're making it, people might not want to store it.
25:36
Speaker 1: I think they might because if there is yields being
25:38
Speaker 1: paid on it, which is most well.
25:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you don't need to have it in a
25:41
Speaker 3: token to get a yield. I mean I can. I
25:44
Speaker 3: can set up an account for you. If you want
25:46
Speaker 3: yield on your gold. I have to have a program
25:48
Speaker 3: where I'm loaning your gold out to somebody who's using
25:51
Speaker 3: it and who's coming right, But I could do that
25:54
Speaker 3: without a token. You don't need a token. You don't
25:57
Speaker 3: need to put a token in the middle. There are
25:59
Speaker 3: companies that do that now and there's no token involved.
26:02
Speaker 1: So why you haven't seen them out there? Then, Peter,
26:04
Speaker 1: they're not they ought proliferated.
26:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, there's only so many.
26:09
Speaker 3: There's only so many, you know, companies that would want
26:12
Speaker 3: to borrow gold because you know, you have to be
26:14
Speaker 3: able to pay it back because gold is appreciating. I mean,
26:17
Speaker 3: nobody would really want to borrow gold unless they needed it.
26:19
Speaker 3: They have to be like in the industry where they
26:22
Speaker 3: need gold because otherwise against it.
26:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, you borrow against the gold, so you're not taking
26:26
Speaker 1: capital gain.
26:27
Speaker 3: Obviously the gold the gold notes are denominated in gold.
26:32
Speaker 3: So I loaned somebody an ounce of gold, they have
26:34
Speaker 3: to pay me back an ounce of gold. Now that
26:36
Speaker 3: could be a very expensive loan if you don't have
26:39
Speaker 3: the gold in some way covered, because you know, gold
26:42
Speaker 3: could double. Who the hell wants to you know, pay
26:44
Speaker 3: back twice what they borrowed. So but but I think
26:47
Speaker 3: right now, the reason that everybody wants to talk about
26:51
Speaker 3: tokenization is because that's what's sexy in the market right now.
26:54
Speaker 3: That's what's crazy. That's what gets people greedy is to
26:57
Speaker 3: be some time, you know. So that's where so people
27:01
Speaker 3: are talking about utilizing tokens where.
27:04
Speaker 2: The value add is not really there.
27:05
Speaker 3: The value is just in the hype in how much
27:08
Speaker 3: money you can raise as a business because you're claiming
27:11
Speaker 3: you're going to be tokenizing stuff, right that's what Oh,
27:14
Speaker 3: that's what gets people excited and they want to put
27:16
Speaker 3: the money in. But you know, all this hot money
27:19
Speaker 3: is going to get going to get lost, going to
27:20
Speaker 3: get burned.
27:22
Speaker 1: Let me ask you one last question here, do you
27:23
Speaker 1: think we'll see banks starting to allow you to hold
27:27
Speaker 1: your tokenized gold in a bank especially. I mean, we
27:29
Speaker 1: just saw, you know, JP Morgan jump out on a
27:32
Speaker 1: one hundred million in a money market tokenized product out there,
27:35
Speaker 1: so it's likely we're going to see more activity like this.
27:38
Speaker 3: What do you think, Yeah, well, look, I think brent
27:40
Speaker 3: banks and brokerage firms could certainly hold tokenized gold for
27:47
Speaker 3: their customers so they can keep it in house, and
27:51
Speaker 3: you know, maybe they'll add their.
27:53
Speaker 2: Own fees to it, the custodial fees.
27:55
Speaker 3: Obviously, they're not going to do it for nothing, so
27:57
Speaker 3: they're going to have to find a way to make
27:59
Speaker 3: some money off of it, and they may certainly lend
28:02
Speaker 3: against it. I'll loan you fifty thousand dollars. I've got
28:05
Speaker 3: one hundred thousand dollars worth of gold. And if I say, look,
28:08
Speaker 3: if it drops down to where you know your loan
28:11
Speaker 3: to value is, you know, you're down to thirty five
28:15
Speaker 3: percent or something, you know, you have X number of
28:18
Speaker 3: days to either send in more money or bring in
28:21
Speaker 3: more gold or something, and if not, I'm going to
28:23
Speaker 3: liquidate you.
28:24
Speaker 2: You know, I'm not going to lose any money on that.
28:27
Speaker 3: I mean I could liquidate that gold and I've covered everything.
28:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, Whereas with the bitcoin.
28:33
Speaker 3: It's that the lenders could lose a lot of money
28:36
Speaker 3: because you the market could implode on them before they
28:38
Speaker 3: have a chance to sell.
28:40
Speaker 1: Well, listen, there's going to be a lot of things happening,
28:43
Speaker 1: I think very soon in the idea of tokenized gold
28:46
Speaker 1: going forward. We're going to be watching what you guys
28:48
Speaker 1: are doing for sure, Peter. So thanks so much for
28:50
Speaker 1: coming in on the show today. I appreciate it.
28:52
Speaker 2: Oh thanks for having me on my pleasure bet. Excellent.
28:55
Speaker 1: All right, you guys know what to do. If you're
28:56
Speaker 1: not already in our private member group, you can do that.
28:59
Speaker 1: It's very easy to do and it's free, and we
29:01
Speaker 1: drop additional research out there, especially in the direction of
29:04
Speaker 1: where token is security is what we're going to see
29:06
Speaker 1: around ethereum and also you know things around token is
29:10
Speaker 1: is gold as well. Make sure and click that link,
29:13
Speaker 1: and of course follow me out there on x app.
29:14
Speaker 1: Paul Baron, We'll catch you next time right here on
29:16
Speaker 1: The Paul Baron Show.