Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Holiday Crime Classic: Ex-hubby dressed as Santa seeks revenge on Christmas Eve

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Holiday Crime Classic: Ex-hubby dressed as Santa seeks revenge on Christmas Eve · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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1:41
Speaker 1: willing crime stories with Nancy Grace. There's your family party
1:52
Speaker 1: being held at the residence on No Crest, attended by
1:54
Speaker 1: about twenty five people. Do He was dressed in a
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Speaker 1: Santa suit and brought with him a homemade device BIS
2:03
Speaker 1: basically consisted of two tanks, one which contain either oxygen
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Speaker 1: to CEO two and the other, smaller tank appeared to
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Speaker 1: contain racy. He walked up to the door. Once he
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Speaker 1: knocked on the door, ring the doorbell and gained entrance.
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Speaker 1: He immediately was confronted with an eight year old child
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Speaker 1: who thought Santa Claus had come to the house. He
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Speaker 1: shot her at once in the face and then proceeded
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Speaker 1: inside the residence. What is he wearing? Okay, let me
2:30
Speaker 1: know what's wearing. The Santa Claus suit that he was
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Speaker 1: wearing did melt onto his body? What is it about
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Speaker 1: the holidays, specifically Christmas that can engender so much love
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Speaker 1: and goodwill? And then on the other hand, at the
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Speaker 1: other end of the spectrum, generates so much hate and
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Speaker 1: animosity and tension. I'm talking specifically about out holidays gone bad.
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Speaker 1: Let's just start with a man, a husband, a father
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Speaker 1: who ends up making a homemade flame thrower, goes to
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Speaker 1: the home and goes berserk. And let me remind everybody,
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Speaker 1: this guy, Bruce Pardo, as I recall, was an aeronautical engineer.
3:26
Speaker 1: Take a listen to this nine one one call. Hello, ho, hey,
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Speaker 1: holy Wally in your house? Down on the Google at
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Speaker 1: your house? What do you think you name it? Okay?
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Speaker 1: And who do you say? Who is he to you?
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Speaker 1: Who he was? Play? Probably like you there? So now, okay,
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Speaker 1: come on one second, Okay, I don't know who else
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Speaker 1: is why? I know I know man on the phone
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Speaker 1: with me, Okay, whole family there spreading people do any fighting?
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Speaker 1: I know? I know? Okay, off, they're trying to get
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Speaker 1: to you, guys. Okay. He came in through the entrance
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Speaker 1: to the door and there's a Santa clausure and I
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Speaker 1: didn't see from when he shot. I heard the shot
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Speaker 1: that they were like poppers and I wasn't sure what
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Speaker 1: it was. So we all everyone started panicking and running,
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Speaker 1: so we all drove under the tenue and some of
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Speaker 1: usselve with some of us. I don't know who my
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Speaker 1: mom pausing on the man the fire there. Okay, where
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Speaker 1: are you wearing? Please? What is he wearing? What is
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Speaker 1: she wearing? Changes Santa Claus clothes? Okay, let me know
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Speaker 1: what he's wearing, black clothes. I'm racking on neighbor's storts.
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Speaker 1: The man he dresses as Santa, slaughters nine people at
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Speaker 1: a Christmas party using what else I mean, of course,
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Speaker 1: a homemade flamethrower as they quote Christmas present, to set
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Speaker 1: his house on fire. I want to go out to
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Speaker 1: John Limley, Crime Stories investigative reporter. This guy was no idiot.
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Speaker 1: I mean, he is an engineer that creates a homemade
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Speaker 1: flamethrower and then the qu de gras wraps it in
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Speaker 1: Christmas wrap and puts the bow on it to get
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Speaker 1: it into the home. He shows up unannounced, John, what
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Speaker 1: exactly happened? Well, I'd love to begin with a love story,
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Speaker 1: and that's of Joseph and Alicia Ortega. They had been
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Speaker 1: married for fifty two years, had created a huge family
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Speaker 1: that just became bigger and bigger with each passing year.
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Speaker 1: Joe and Alicia love nothing more than each Christmas Eve
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Speaker 1: to gather their entire family with them in Covina, California,
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Speaker 1: a suburb of Los Angeles. The children and their families
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Speaker 1: would begin arriving early in the day. The celebration would
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Speaker 1: go well into the night, with the house packed to
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Speaker 1: the gills with relatives. Later in the evening, the adults
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Speaker 1: would play a lively game of poker while the children played.
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Speaker 1: Now keep this scene in your head. For many years
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Speaker 1: a neighbor would dress as Santa, ring the doorbell and
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Speaker 1: surprise the children with a bunch of presents. So on
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Speaker 1: December twenty fourth, all seemed quite normal when the doorbell
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Speaker 1: rang around eleven thirty PM and one of the younger grandchildren,
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Speaker 1: an eight year old girl, answered the door to see
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Speaker 1: Santa standing there. As the family was about to discover though,
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Speaker 1: this was anything but a storybook visit from Saint Nick.
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Speaker 1: Just moments after the door opened, the man dressed as
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Speaker 1: Santa pulls out two handguns and immediately shoots the little girl.
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Speaker 1: He then steps over first, she's the eight year old girl, yes,
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Speaker 1: right right? As he enters the house. He then steps
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Speaker 1: over her enters the house. He moves back and forth
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Speaker 1: between shooting and discriminately and then shooting some family members
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Speaker 1: point blank, execution style. There are approximately twenty five or
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Speaker 1: so family members or extended or taga family and the
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Speaker 1: house that night, so there was mass chaos as sisters
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Speaker 1: and brothers, cousins, niece's nephews run in all directions trying
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Speaker 1: to get away from the shooter. In the midst of
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Speaker 1: all this, the shooter stops. He stops firing and walks
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Speaker 1: over to this large wrapped present that he has rolled
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Speaker 1: in with him under that festive paper, and the box is,
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Speaker 1: as you mentioned, a homemade flamethrower. He begins spraying what
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Speaker 1: is discovered to be racing fuel, high octane fuel around
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Speaker 1: the house. There's a huge explosion and the house is
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Speaker 1: quickly engulfed in flames. The last of the living family
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Speaker 1: members are seen jumping out of the windows to escape
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Speaker 1: the blaze. Guys, Amazingly, this flamethrower is actually full of
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Speaker 1: high octane car racing fuel and it's spewed around the
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Speaker 1: home to catch the home on fire. Okay with me
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Speaker 1: our special guest Joe Scott Morgan death investigator, Cheryl McCullum,
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Speaker 1: cold case investigator and the director of the Cold Case Institute,
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Speaker 1: Crime Stories reporter John Limley and joining us today doctor
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Speaker 1: Carol Lieberman, psychiatrist, radio and TV talk show personality, best
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Speaker 1: selling author. She's a keynote speaker and expert witness on
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Speaker 1: many subjects, Doctor Carol Lieberman, it is just such a
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Speaker 1: thrill to have you with us. Before I go any
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Speaker 1: further with the flamethrower, can I ask you something, Doctor Lieberman?
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Speaker 1: No offense, John Allen and Joe Scott? What is wrong
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Speaker 1: with men? Really? I mean, the thought of going and
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Speaker 1: creating a homemade flamethrower and wrapping it in Christmas wrap
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Speaker 1: in a bow. I just that would never have dawned
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Speaker 1: on me. I mean, I guess moms are too busy
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Speaker 1: raising children and running around town as a chauffeur and working. Right,
9:23
Speaker 1: who has time to make a flame thrower? That's right? Well,
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Speaker 1: you know it's actually a metaphor for just how much
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Speaker 1: rage Bruce Parnow had towards his wife. They had just
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Speaker 1: divorced a week before, and um, you know, which is
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Speaker 1: so typical in all of these holiday killings. Uh, there
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Speaker 1: is so much rage, so much family resentment that um,
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Speaker 1: you know this is this was his way of really
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Speaker 1: showing her just how burned up he was. I mean,
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Speaker 1: but to go to so much effort to create a
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Speaker 1: homemade flame, a thrower, I don't even know what that
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Speaker 1: would look like. I'm imagining, imagining some sort of scepteral
10:11
Speaker 1: looking thing. I don't even know what that would be. Well,
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Speaker 1: I'm not really sure either exactly what it would look like.
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Speaker 1: But you know this, he was so angry. You know,
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Speaker 1: you mentioned that she had children. During their divorce, the
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Speaker 1: judge decided that he was going to pay for her
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Speaker 1: children and also pay her some money as well, And
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Speaker 1: this was when he finally decided that he was resentful
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Speaker 1: towards her during the marriage for having to pay for
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Speaker 1: her children, and then when they got divorced and the
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Speaker 1: judge said that he still had to pay for them,
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Speaker 1: that was too much. Bruce Pardo actually suffered third degree
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Speaker 1: burns on both arms, and it appears at Santa Claus
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Speaker 1: suit he was wearing melted onto his body. The dichotomy
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Speaker 1: of coming as Father Christmas say is nothing but loving
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Speaker 1: and full of good, cheer and merriment. The dichotomy doctor
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Speaker 1: Carol Lieberman of him dressing as Santa with murder on
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Speaker 1: his mind, what does that mean? Where does from? Where
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Speaker 1: does that spring? That is a particular betrayal. You know,
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Speaker 1: it's like clowns who kill We societe a society love Santa,
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Speaker 1: love clowns. Most people love clowns, and so for someone
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Speaker 1: dressed in a suit, like in a Santa suit, it
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Speaker 1: isn't especially I mean, yes, he was doing it so
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Speaker 1: that he could get into the house and so on,
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Speaker 1: but also I think there was a metaphor he was
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Speaker 1: trying to say that he didn't want to be Santa
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Speaker 1: perpetually for her and her children. He didn't want to
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Speaker 1: keep playing Santa in the sense of keep supporting them.
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Speaker 1: You know what's interesting about this is John Lemway. Isn't
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Speaker 1: it true that he had no criminal record whatsoever before this?
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Speaker 1: That is indeed the case which made it all the
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Speaker 1: more impossible for them to figure out exactly what was
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Speaker 1: going on. Police speculate that the motive of the attack,
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Speaker 1: as we hinted, was related to not only the divorce,
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Speaker 1: but a spade of problems that Bruce Pardot had encountered
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Speaker 1: over the months prior. As we've said, his wife of
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Speaker 1: one year, Sylvia, had settled for divorce just one week
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Speaker 1: before this incident. Bruce had been fired from his job
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Speaker 1: as an electrical engineer just in July as well. The
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Speaker 1: couple had wed, but soon grew apart. After their marriage,
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Speaker 1: mister Pardot refused to open a joint account with his wife.
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Speaker 1: He also expected his wife to take care of their
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Speaker 1: three children with her own finances. Weren't they his biological
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Speaker 1: children or now? Yes, However, there was another child that
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Speaker 1: they discover exists through a woman that he was with before.
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Speaker 1: And this is an interesting scenario here. Apparently this child
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Speaker 1: that he had with this woman earlier in his life,
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Speaker 1: he had been at home alone with the child. The
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Speaker 1: child had gotten out of its crib, entered the swimming
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Speaker 1: pool and almost died, did not, but was really left
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Speaker 1: in a vegetative state. Oh my goodness. So I want
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Speaker 1: you to hear what the police chief there in Covena
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Speaker 1: has to say. Again, this happened about eleven thirty pm
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Speaker 1: on Christmas Eve. There was a family party being held
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Speaker 1: at the residence on No Crest, attended by about twenty
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Speaker 1: five people. It appears that mister Pardo drove the location
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Speaker 1: and parked his car in the driveway one house east.
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Speaker 1: At the party, he was dressed in a Santa suit
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Speaker 1: and brought with him a homemade device which will release
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Speaker 1: pictures of that later for the press. Device basically consisted
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Speaker 1: of two tanks, one which contained either oxygen or CO
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Speaker 1: two and the other smaller tank appeared to contain racing fuel.
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Speaker 1: He was a homemade device that was basically built where
14:21
Speaker 1: once he mixed those two items, it would turn into
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Speaker 1: a vapor or atomize, and he was able to deliver
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Speaker 1: that inside the residence, He walked up to the door.
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Speaker 1: Once he knocked on the door, rang the doorbell, and
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Speaker 1: gained entrance. He immediately was confronted with an eight year
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Speaker 1: old child who thought Santa Claus had come to the house.
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Speaker 1: He shot her once in the face and then proceeded
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Speaker 1: inside the residence. Mister Pardo was armed with four handguns
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Speaker 1: when he went into the residence. All four handguns have
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Speaker 1: been recovered and the best of our belief as of
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Speaker 1: right now, all guns were empty. As he went into
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Speaker 1: the house, he began shooting at the partygoers, again indiscriminately.
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Speaker 1: It appears that he did have some intended target, those
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Speaker 1: being the family members and immediate family of his ex wife.
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Speaker 1: Once the shooting stopped, it appeared that he then retrieved
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Speaker 1: the homemade device, activated that, and went through the house,
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Speaker 1: basically delivering that and releasing a gas vapor inside the house.
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Speaker 1: There's no indication that he ignited the vapor, but the
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Speaker 1: vapor was able to be ignited either by a pilot
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Speaker 1: light or if there was a candle inside the house.
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Speaker 1: Because obviously there was an explosion that occurred inside the house.
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Speaker 1: Mister Pardo was severely injured during that explosion. He suffered
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Speaker 1: third degree burns on both arms. It also appears that
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Speaker 1: the Santa Claus suit that he was wearing dead melt
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Speaker 1: onto his body. Imagine this same party goers running to
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Speaker 1: neighbor's homes to call police. One woman broke her ankle
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Speaker 1: leaping to safety from one of the home's bedroom windows.
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Speaker 1: A boy flees the home screaming into the street. They're
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Speaker 1: shooting my family, shooting my family, as the home goes
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Speaker 1: up in flames. It just I don't understand why something
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Speaker 1: about the Holidays set off so much hatred. Joe Scott Morgan,
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Speaker 1: How can you process a scene like that. It's a nightmare, Nancy,
16:19
Speaker 1: because this is what we refer to as a stratified scene,
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Speaker 1: which means you've got layer if you'll imagine a big
16:26
Speaker 1: layer cake, You've got layer upon layer upon evidence. Not
16:30
Speaker 1: only do you have things like you know, this guy
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Speaker 1: when he walked in was firing a nine millimeter pistol.
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Speaker 1: There were a couple of weapons involved, so the nature
16:40
Speaker 1: of these rounds there is going to be very unique
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Speaker 1: to each weapon. You've got people that are trampling over
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Speaker 1: one another. And then when you put it on top
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Speaker 1: of everything, the explosion that took place as a result
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Speaker 1: of this high octane fuel that ignited, it's it's mass
16:58
Speaker 1: chaos in this environment. And for an investigator, when you
17:03
Speaker 1: walk onto a scene like this, it gives you pause.
17:06
Speaker 1: Your mind begins to swirl. So when you're handling something
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Speaker 1: like this, you have to be very methodical, take very
17:14
Speaker 1: careful steps one by one, and work your way through
17:18
Speaker 1: it very very slowly. I mean, police find the bodies
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Speaker 1: badly burn of hate. Victims who were just gathered at
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Speaker 1: a family gathering for Christmas, I say, entered the ruins.
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Speaker 1: After this fire was finally put out, officers met with
17:34
Speaker 1: a scene that was indescribable, said police Chief Kim Rainey.
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Speaker 1: The ninth body wasn't even discovered until the next day, Nancy,
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Speaker 1: if I could rampage, if I can interject one more
17:46
Speaker 1: thing about the nature of this fire. You know, when
17:49
Speaker 1: most people people into vernacular, they'll say things like, well,
17:53
Speaker 1: they burn to death. Most people don't burn to death
17:55
Speaker 1: in fires. Most people die of smoke inhalation. As we
17:58
Speaker 1: all well know how in this particular case, when you've
18:02
Speaker 1: got high octane fuel in a very closed environment, what
18:07
Speaker 1: will happen is the people that are alive, that have
18:10
Speaker 1: not succumbed to gunshot wounds will inhalate what's for two,
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Speaker 1: a superheated gas. And so this is very horrible that
18:18
Speaker 1: the interlining of the throat and the lungs will just
18:21
Speaker 1: automatically just kind of singe, and it's a very very
18:25
Speaker 1: painful way to die. So not only are you inhalating
18:27
Speaker 1: the debris that's being consumed, you're also innhilating the superheated gas,
18:32
Speaker 1: which in and of itself is a whole different layer
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Speaker 1: of terror on top of all the rest of it.
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Speaker 1: You know, what's so just another disturbing layer. To doctor
18:41
Speaker 1: Carroll Lieberman for those of you just joining us, a
18:44
Speaker 1: rampage goes down just before Christmas, a whole family is
18:50
Speaker 1: wiped out more than the family. People were quoted as
18:54
Speaker 1: saying doctor Carroll Lieberman that this guy Pardo was quote
18:58
Speaker 1: the nicest value. Imagine, always a pleasure to talk to,
19:02
Speaker 1: always a big smile, Always work the as usher every
19:07
Speaker 1: Sunday evening for the past six years, working the five
19:12
Speaker 1: thirty mass, the children's Mass. How can someone so loving
19:18
Speaker 1: and so generous and kind suddenly turn into a mass murderer. Yes,
19:23
Speaker 1: you know, we often hear that with when someone's when
19:28
Speaker 1: there's some big crime in the neighbors all say, oh,
19:30
Speaker 1: he was such a nice guy. I know. Um, well,
19:34
Speaker 1: you know there's no relationship though that is as intimate
19:38
Speaker 1: as he would have had with his wife. And this spurning,
19:43
Speaker 1: you know, her moving out with the kids, and um,
19:47
Speaker 1: the the disappointment of the relationship ending the way it
19:50
Speaker 1: did and so on, that brings up a lot of
19:54
Speaker 1: rage and connected with the holidays. I mean, you know
19:58
Speaker 1: when our reaction into the holidays, I mean, of course
20:01
Speaker 1: you've heard of holiday blues and so on. You know,
20:04
Speaker 1: how we relate to the holidays has to do so
20:07
Speaker 1: much with how we were as children. What happened during
20:10
Speaker 1: the holidays when we were children, and we bring that
20:13
Speaker 1: the sense of whether we were whether we felt deprived
20:16
Speaker 1: during the holidays, excluded like he was excluded from this party.
20:21
Speaker 1: And there are different things in the hot buttons that
20:24
Speaker 1: get triggered, particularly during the holiday. Hi, Nancy Grace here,
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21:43
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. At a time when we
21:49
Speaker 1: celebrate everything good in the world, how that could somehow
21:54
Speaker 1: be twisted and contorted into something so evil. We now
21:58
Speaker 1: travel to Fort Lauderdale where a guy, a dad, Paul Mary,
22:05
Speaker 1: has dinner, a wonderful holiday dinner, sing songs around the piano,
22:12
Speaker 1: Christmas songs, and then suddenly oh and hymns out of
22:17
Speaker 1: the church hymnal and then suddenly unloads. It all ends
22:23
Speaker 1: in a massacre where he executes an entire family. John
22:29
Speaker 1: Lemley another holiday, a festive, peaceful, loving get together a
22:35
Speaker 1: family and friends, goes completely arrived. What happens There were
22:40
Speaker 1: no arguments, warnings, or even red flags before he started
22:45
Speaker 1: the rampage. Marriage shot his seventy nine year old aunt
22:50
Speaker 1: to death, killed his twin sisters, one of whom was pregnant.
22:56
Speaker 1: It's not eight months pregnant exactly, you know, a month
23:01
Speaker 1: or so away from delivering. It's not clear exactly who
23:06
Speaker 1: was shot when, but the bloodbath could have been much
23:09
Speaker 1: worse with sixteen family members present. Marriage thirty five at
23:15
Speaker 1: the time, also pointed the gun at his uncle, but
23:19
Speaker 1: it twice would not fire at one point he turned
23:24
Speaker 1: and started to walk away and said, I have been
23:27
Speaker 1: waiting for twenty years to do this. Oh my stars,
23:32
Speaker 1: waiting for twenty years to do this, you know, to
23:35
Speaker 1: doctor Carroll Lieberman, psychiatrist, radio and TV talk show host, personality,
23:41
Speaker 1: a best selling author, speaker. You know, doctor Carroll Lieberman,
23:45
Speaker 1: you have seen so much as an expert. I still
23:51
Speaker 1: don't understand how Holidays, when we're celebrating everything good in
23:58
Speaker 1: the world, as the Prince of comes to our world,
24:03
Speaker 1: how it could all be so twisted and horrible. And
24:07
Speaker 1: I guess my specific question right now is no warning flags,
24:12
Speaker 1: no mental illness history, no episodes of uncontrolled anger. Nothing. Well,
24:19
Speaker 1: actually he did. He was going to his attorneys were
24:24
Speaker 1: going to try to do an insanity defense, and that's
24:28
Speaker 1: how he got to strike a place. I mean, well,
24:33
Speaker 1: and then there's a story about how he went to
24:35
Speaker 1: see a doctor, although it's not clear what doctor he
24:38
Speaker 1: you know, whether it was a psychiatrist, but the idea
24:42
Speaker 1: that he said, he's been waiting twenty years to do this.
24:45
Speaker 1: So he's thirty five years old. That means when he
24:47
Speaker 1: was fifth since the time he was fifteen, he has
24:49
Speaker 1: had all this resentment jealousy of his twin sisters who
24:53
Speaker 1: were younger, so they replaced him in the family. You know,
24:56
Speaker 1: the typical sibling rivalry. Well it's not so typical when
24:59
Speaker 1: he shoots them all. But he was jealous of them,
25:03
Speaker 1: and he one of the people that he killed was
25:05
Speaker 1: the six year old little girl who was performing. She
25:10
Speaker 1: was singing. She was supposed to be in the Nutcracker,
25:13
Speaker 1: and so she performed in front of all the relatives.
25:15
Speaker 1: So what it had to do with is how he
25:17
Speaker 1: was not getting enough attention. He was feeling like the
25:21
Speaker 1: family wasn't paying enough attention to him, and since he
25:23
Speaker 1: was fifteen, he felt that way. And hey, he had
25:26
Speaker 1: this resentment stored up for twenty years and finally, you know,
25:31
Speaker 1: he let loose and he went to this. There were
25:34
Speaker 1: there were some warning signs in the sense that his
25:37
Speaker 1: sister and he had his sister took out a restraining
25:41
Speaker 1: order but then dropped that. So, you know, this is
25:43
Speaker 1: such a good example of a family not paying enough attention. Well,
25:48
Speaker 1: like he was complaining about not paying enough attention to
25:51
Speaker 1: the psychological issues that were plaguing him. Well up until
25:55
Speaker 1: this moment in time, there was no indication he had
25:59
Speaker 1: any mental I there. He has not been treated nothing.
26:05
Speaker 1: He had had disagreements with one relative and they took
26:10
Speaker 1: out a tro and then dropped it almost immediately. What's
26:15
Speaker 1: shocking to me, the fact, Joseph Scott Morgan, forensic Expert,
26:20
Speaker 1: Professor Forensics at Jacksonville State University, is that these victims
26:27
Speaker 1: were totally taken by surprise. I mean they were literally
26:31
Speaker 1: standing around the piano. One of the daughters, They've just
26:37
Speaker 1: had this huge dinner, a holiday dinner, and they were
26:42
Speaker 1: all around. They were looking at note cards. His daughter,
26:46
Speaker 1: Michela had written about how thankful she was for her
26:50
Speaker 1: family and strung them on a clothes line, and she
26:54
Speaker 1: suddenly started singing. It was kind of an impromptu dress rehearsal.
27:00
Speaker 1: Was performing The Nutcracker the very next day. She was
27:04
Speaker 1: daughter Michaela, and in the middle of all this marriage
27:11
Speaker 1: shows up and of course they let him in and
27:16
Speaker 1: he has the dinner. He's standing around the piano. Everything
27:21
Speaker 1: seems to be fine, and then out of the blue,
27:24
Speaker 1: he pulls out a gun and methodically targets victims, shooting
27:29
Speaker 1: his twin sisters, Carla, a real estate agent, and Lisa,
27:33
Speaker 1: who was eight months pregnant. Like the daughter Michela. Both
27:37
Speaker 1: of them loved to sing. They did this every year
27:41
Speaker 1: at Christmas and Thanksgiving. He shoots his aunt Romande, his
27:46
Speaker 1: brother in law Patrick, another man who happened to be
27:51
Speaker 1: there at Clifford. That wasn't all. That wasn't all. He
27:57
Speaker 1: goes into a baby's room. He sees her there and
28:04
Speaker 1: murders her. Beside the baby's bed was a little novel
28:10
Speaker 1: that she had been writing about a squirrel, where of
28:14
Speaker 1: course the squirrel can talk and sing, and she was
28:19
Speaker 1: actually writing a book. She would have turned seven a
28:23
Speaker 1: few days later. Joe Scott, how do you process a
28:30
Speaker 1: scene like that? It's hard to get past it, Nancy,
28:33
Speaker 1: because as a as an investigator, you want to look
28:38
Speaker 1: at the physical evidence and assess what you see before
28:42
Speaker 1: you relative to the scientific value. But one of the
28:47
Speaker 1: problems that you encounter is that when you do this,
28:51
Speaker 1: and I'm going to wax philosophical for a moment, is
28:54
Speaker 1: that you drag your own humanity in there with you.
28:56
Speaker 1: And sometimes it's very, very difficult to view these things
29:01
Speaker 1: and not be put off emotionally by what you're seeing.
29:06
Speaker 1: And it's a surreal event many times because and I
29:09
Speaker 1: like in this when I'm teaching my classes, I tell
29:13
Speaker 1: I tell my students many times, listen, you're there to
29:19
Speaker 1: view the abnormal in the context of the normal. And
29:23
Speaker 1: what's more, what's more normal? Well, what's more peaceful? A
29:28
Speaker 1: better word than to have family all gathered around during
29:31
Speaker 1: the holiday season. You're singing around the piano, people are
29:34
Speaker 1: celebrating live. It's joyful, it's festive, and then all of
29:38
Speaker 1: a sudden, carnage visits. It's it's pure hell on earth.
29:44
Speaker 1: And you're having to contextualize all this stuff as an
29:47
Speaker 1: investigator and process it and try to figure out what
29:51
Speaker 1: happened to these individuals. And then you begin to kind
29:54
Speaker 1: of interweave their stories about how much they suffered in
29:58
Speaker 1: these events, and it's hard, and a lot of people,
30:02
Speaker 1: you know, they sit back and they look at investigators
30:04
Speaker 1: and police officers to say, I don't understand why you're
30:06
Speaker 1: so jaded. I don't understand why you have this twisted
30:10
Speaker 1: view of the world. And it is because of the
30:13
Speaker 1: fact that we always see in three D living color
30:16
Speaker 1: before us the abnormal in the context of the normal. Well,
30:21
Speaker 1: I don't know so much that it's jaded as that
30:24
Speaker 1: you at some point it's to get through it. You
30:28
Speaker 1: have to numb yourself or you just can't keep going.
30:31
Speaker 1: I mean when I read, when I've studied this case
30:35
Speaker 1: for this moment, I mean, there's this six year old
30:39
Speaker 1: little girl who the dad says, she's quote just our life.
30:43
Speaker 1: I don't know how we're ever going to recover. And
30:48
Speaker 1: you look at them. There's an eight months pregnant mom.
30:53
Speaker 1: I mean, I remember at when I was six months.
30:56
Speaker 1: You know, I gave birth so prematurely. I never made
30:58
Speaker 1: it to eight months, but hardly walk just it was
31:03
Speaker 1: so difficult. And here's this mom eight months pregnant, dead,
31:08
Speaker 1: her twin sister dead. And then to even suggest John
31:13
Speaker 1: Lemley Crime Stories investigated a reporter that he was insane.
31:17
Speaker 1: It doesn't work because he has the wherewithal to then
31:21
Speaker 1: hop in his car and go on the run. He
31:25
Speaker 1: goes straight out after gunning down a whole family, he
31:29
Speaker 1: jumps into his Royal blue Toyota camera and heads off.
31:34
Speaker 1: In fact, the police immediately alert Michigan authorities because they
31:40
Speaker 1: think he was headed there. I mean, he knew exactly
31:45
Speaker 1: what he was doing. Because he goes on the run.
31:47
Speaker 1: There had to be a plan in place after the
31:50
Speaker 1: mass murder. Marriage was as you say, on the lamb
31:53
Speaker 1: for weeks until the tip was called in after an
31:56
Speaker 1: episode of America's Most Wanted highlighted this murder case. What
32:01
Speaker 1: is it about the holidays, specifically Christmas holidays, the whole
32:06
Speaker 1: season starting at Thanksgiving that brings out seemingly the very
32:10
Speaker 1: worst in human nature. I'm thinking about right now, a guy,
32:14
Speaker 1: a twenty eight year old guy. He has everything in
32:18
Speaker 1: the world to be thankful for. Its name is Joel
32:21
Speaker 1: Michael Guy Junior, and his parents Joel Michael Guy Senior
32:27
Speaker 1: and mom Lisa have been supporting him his whole life.
32:32
Speaker 1: He's been in school, I think now for ten years.
32:34
Speaker 1: I'm talking about college. College. He was not working, living
32:40
Speaker 1: off his parents. He's been in college now ten years,
32:44
Speaker 1: and he comes home and asks for more money. The
32:49
Speaker 1: parents are trying to retire and they have to break
32:53
Speaker 1: it to him over holiday meal. Son, You're gonna have
32:57
Speaker 1: to make it on. You're gonna have to get a job. Son. Finally,
33:01
Speaker 1: you've been in school ten years to get a four
33:03
Speaker 1: year degree. It's over. We're selling the house. Where are
33:07
Speaker 1: we tiring? We're not gonna work anymore? And what does
33:11
Speaker 1: he do? John Limley. I just I hate the ending
33:14
Speaker 1: of this story. What happens John, The family is gathering
33:18
Speaker 1: for a holiday feast at this beautiful, tiny, little two
33:22
Speaker 1: story home that's on a corner lot in the Golden
33:25
Speaker 1: Lane neighborhood of Knoxville, Tennessee. Now it was all ready
33:29
Speaker 1: to be the family's last holiday together in that particular house.
33:33
Speaker 1: I'm backing up. Did you say tiny because I'm looking
33:36
Speaker 1: at it and it's a mansion. I'm looking right at it.
33:39
Speaker 1: Did I hear you say tiny? Okay, all right, maybe
33:43
Speaker 1: I should No, no, no, no no, just go ahead. I
33:45
Speaker 1: mean this place is it looks like maybe the Italian
33:49
Speaker 1: kind of like stucco. Oh, Jackie say she knows exactly
33:52
Speaker 1: where it's. I mean it's gorgeous. Yeah, okay, not that
33:56
Speaker 1: that means the crime can't happen, But what it does
33:58
Speaker 1: mean is it's probably a very low crime area. Okay, Sorry,
34:01
Speaker 1: I just had to make sure you knew this was
34:03
Speaker 1: not a tiny home because I've been watching too much
34:06
Speaker 1: HGTV and they do all discussions on the tiny home.
34:09
Speaker 1: Right people put on the car and drive around the
34:11
Speaker 1: country with them. Is one of them? All? Right? Go ahead?
34:14
Speaker 1: Now this was already to be the family's last holiday
34:17
Speaker 1: together in that house, because in two weeks Joel Duy
34:20
Speaker 1: Senior and his wife Lisa were going to move into
34:23
Speaker 1: his late mother's mountain house about ninety miles away. Family
34:28
Speaker 1: members were already talking about getting together there for a
34:32
Speaker 1: Christmas reunion. The guys said their goodbyes first to their
34:37
Speaker 1: three daughters, who all live in Tennessee, and plan to
34:40
Speaker 1: send off their son, Joel Michael Guy Junior, as we mentioned,
34:44
Speaker 1: even living in Baton Rouge for nearly a decade, and
34:47
Speaker 1: his parents were financially supporting him. Authorities say they had
34:51
Speaker 1: planned to tell him that they were indeed cutting him off.
34:55
Speaker 1: It's still unclear exactly what happened next, whether the guys
34:59
Speaker 1: ever had a chance to even delivered their message. What
35:02
Speaker 1: authorities do know is that the twenty eight year old
35:05
Speaker 1: state in Tennessee another three days longer than he'd planned,
35:09
Speaker 1: and by that Sunday afternoon, his parents' home had been
35:12
Speaker 1: turned into what police say was a horrific and very
35:16
Speaker 1: gruesome crime scene. During a welfare check that following Monday,
35:22
Speaker 1: after Lisa Guy's employer told police that she did not
35:25
Speaker 1: show up for work, authorities entered the home and discovered
35:29
Speaker 1: a barking dog that was locked in an upstairs room,
35:32
Speaker 1: and the remains of Joel's senior and Lisa scattered throughout
35:37
Speaker 1: the house, their dismembered body parts resting in a homemade
35:42
Speaker 1: acidic solution concocted. He was trying to erase all evidence
35:47
Speaker 1: that the crimes even took place there. Whoa wait a minute,
35:50
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert, Professor Forensics
35:55
Speaker 1: at Jacksonville State University. What about this acidic solution? Drums
36:03
Speaker 1: of it? Words like torture, stab, wounds, and dismemberment are
36:09
Speaker 1: also used in this tale. And he was with his
36:16
Speaker 1: parents for an extended period of time, which is why
36:19
Speaker 1: the police believe that prior to them dying, he very
36:24
Speaker 1: well may have tortured them. A lot of anger involved
36:27
Speaker 1: with this, and you know, after this feat of killing,
36:32
Speaker 1: these intimates these people, and that's the way we commonly
36:36
Speaker 1: refer to them if you're in an intimate relationship, not
36:39
Speaker 1: referring to a sexual relationship, but just you know, a
36:42
Speaker 1: familial relationship, very close paring and child after you go
36:47
Speaker 1: through killing them up close and personal with an edged weapon.
36:52
Speaker 1: Then before you even get to the acid, you have
36:55
Speaker 1: to dismember the bodies, and this is no easy feat,
36:58
Speaker 1: particularly if you've never done it before. I've worked in
37:01
Speaker 1: the morgue for many, many years, and I'll just leave
37:03
Speaker 1: it at that. I know what it takes. And for
37:07
Speaker 1: someone in this fancy home that has limited knowledge and
37:12
Speaker 1: I would think limited specialty tools in order to facilitate this,
37:16
Speaker 1: it'd be very difficult. Also if you don't use the
37:19
Speaker 1: right combination of you know, what they're referring to is
37:24
Speaker 1: not necessarily a pure acid solution, but something that was
37:26
Speaker 1: kind of concocted. Always that makes me raised an eyebrow.
37:30
Speaker 1: It's not going to work very effectively. And from what
37:33
Speaker 1: I understand, he essentially left a scene and returned back
37:40
Speaker 1: to Baton Rouge and you know where later, as John
37:44
Speaker 1: had pointed out, you know, the police entered this house
37:47
Speaker 1: of horrors, and I can't I can't imagine what it
37:50
Speaker 1: would be like to be a young uniformed officer, which
37:52
Speaker 1: more than likely it was, that entered this home just
37:55
Speaker 1: to conduct a welfare check. And this is something that's
37:57
Speaker 1: done on a regular basis, and you walk in this
38:00
Speaker 1: is the last thing you're expecting to see. To doctor
38:02
Speaker 1: Carroll Lieberman, psychiatrist, radio TV talk shape host, bestselling author,
38:08
Speaker 1: Doctor Carroll, please give us some guidance. This story has
38:13
Speaker 1: again some of these same elements of these holiday massacres.
38:19
Speaker 1: Money and then the idea that his parents were going
38:22
Speaker 1: to be selling that home, perhaps his childhood home, or
38:26
Speaker 1: at least perhaps to something that represented status and moving
38:29
Speaker 1: away abandonment. So money, deprivation, abandonment. You know, all the
38:35
Speaker 1: ingredients were there for him to finally express his rage.
38:40
Speaker 1: For everyone listening today, I want to thank you for
38:42
Speaker 1: being with us as always and through the years. It's
38:46
Speaker 1: Christmas Eve, and while so many of us are gathering
38:50
Speaker 1: with family and celebrating the birth of Christ, so many
38:54
Speaker 1: others are suffering today as we head into this holy
38:59
Speaker 1: holy time. I'm merry Christmas. Nancy Gray's Crime Story is
39:04
Speaker 1: signing off. Goodbye Friend,