Latest / It's Time for Success: The Business Insights Podcast / Leadership that Lasts: How to build Trust, Resilience and Impact, with Susan Power

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Leadership that Lasts: How to build Trust, Resilience and Impact, with Susan Power · It's Time for Success: The Business Insights Podcast

• Sharon: [00:00:16] Welcome back to It's Time for Success, The Business Insights podcast. Today I'm joined by Susan Power, Founder and CEO of PowerUp Leadership and co-host of the Inspired Leadership podcast. I have to jump in and explain myself because I'm from Lloyd. So whenever I hear that, my mouth defaults to Lloyd. So PowerUp Leadership. Susan helps leaders grow through clarity, courage, and connection. She believes leadership isn't about titles of years of experience. I really like that sentence actually, Susan, too. So I will say it again. She believes leadership isn't about titles or years of experience. It's about how you show up every day in the impact you make. We're diving into what authentic leadership looks like, how to build teams based on trust and how to stay strong when things get tough. Thank you for joining us today, Susan. Susan: [00:01:05] Thanks for having me. Nice to meet you, Sharon. Sharon: [00:01:08] Yes, you too. Can you… can we elaborate a little bit on that? She believes leadership isn't about titles or years of experience, because sometimes we think, you know, just because you have some experience under your belt… But it's not always leadership. Explain that a little bit to me. Susan: [00:01:23] Yeah. I think everyone is a leader in different capacities on different topics, different contexts. So sometimes people get stuck on titles, especially in corporations, you know? So I just think it's something that is good to remind others of, that sometimes we're followers, sometimes we're leaders. It kind of shifts in turns. Sharon: [00:01:46] And I think as… because I have my own company, as we talked about, here at It’s Time Promotions, I need leaders. And I need, as you call like… phrase them as followers. But yet we're creating leaders in their departments, if that makes sense. So yes, they might be, say, the production team. They're quiet behind the scenes, but they're leading their department, right? Does that make sense? Susan: [00:02:05] Oh, 100%. I have a team through PowerUp Leadership, and my direct reports lead me all the time. If I get confused on something and they're in the details of it and vice versa, like it switches from conversation to conversation. Sharon: [00:02:22] Yeah. So you don't necessarily need to be an extrovert to be a leader. Susan: [00:02:26] Oh yeah, that's a good topic too. For sure. People have this misconception that extroverts make more effective leaders. Actually, the inverse is true. I mean, I know we can't paint everyone with the same brush, but introverts are often better listeners. Often they are more reflective because they think before they talk, and they often assume that they are not as effective as leaders because they're not as vocal, but they are actually proven to be excellent at leadership skills. Sharon: [00:02:58] Yeah. And as I go through my life, I see that more and more. Those, like you said, I'm more vocal. Sometimes extroverts are more vocal and they're speaking their mind and trying to get their... Yeah. It's different for sure. So that's very cool. Thank you for that. Okay. We're going to jump into leadership philosophy. So we talk about leading with authenticity and purpose. So what does that really mean in everyday business? Authenticity and purpose in leadership. Susan: [00:03:22] When I think about the leaders that I have worked with, that I've really enjoyed the process and probably learned the most from, I think I'm no different than anyone else that I coach, and it's the ones that you trust, the leaders that show up as themselves. You get the same version of them if you run into them on the weekend at Tim Hortons or Starbucks, as you would in, you know, the corporate suit at the workplace. They're the same person. They communicate kind of the same way. And that's authenticity. And that builds trust. And it's just more comfortable to work with someone that seems comfortable in their own skin and who they are. Sharon: [00:04:05] Okay, that makes a lot of sense to me now. Because when I read that sentence, I actually, I was stumbling with it a bit with the authenticity and purpose. So where you are at work, how you're dealing with your team at work is the same way you're dealing with somebody on the weekend, you know, saying thank you to the guy behind the Tim Hortons counter. All that kind of stuff is what you're getting at. Susan: [00:04:26] Yeah, exactly. Your values are the same. You communicate in the same way. You're not putting on this, like, show of, okay, this is my corporate mask. And I'm going to, I don't know, communicate in a way that my own family and friends won't recognize me outside of work, that people can smell that, right? It's not authentic. They're like, who is this person? I don't trust them. Sharon: [00:04:50] Is that true? And that's got to be exhausting. Oh, my lord, that would be exhausting, right? Susan: [00:04:56] But so many people do this. I hear this all the time, especially if they get promoted to an executive role. They're like, oh, now I'm an executive. Now I have to show up in a certain way. Like, we have all these stories we tell ourselves. A lot of people, a lot of people are exhausted because of that. Sharon: [00:05:15] Yeah, that's gotta be hard. And what about that's got to really lead in unless people don't think that way. But the imposter syndrome it's a thing. Does that not ricochet onto that at all or not really for those? Susan: [00:05:26] I think so. I'm thinking of a fellow I coached in the US and he hated golf and he was an executive and he complained to me about, oh, I got to go to this lunch event and then we're going to be talking about sports and golf. And I'll say to him like, well, you don't need to pretend to like that stuff. And he felt like he needed to put an act on and pretend he liked sports. And I asked him, I said, well, what if others feel the same way? What if you're all pretending, like maybe they'd be refreshed to talk about something different. Sharon: [00:05:57] Yeah. Even though you don't know, this is my take on it. So, for example, we deal a lot here with the First Nations, and they have their colours, they have their, you know, their beliefs, and everything means something. I don't pretend to know what those mean, if I'm honest with them. But I want to learn. They're going to teach me, right? Like it's okay to be authentic, as your word is right like to be. Yeah, it's a lot easier for me to tell them that instead of coming up with something and sounding like a… be doing it wrong, right? They're saying the wrong thing. Susan: [00:06:29] So I think they probably appreciate, like your interest of wanting to learn and asking them a question about it. Sharon: [00:06:36] Mhmm. Yes. It's… I find it very intriguing. Okay. What do most people get wrong about what it means to be a leader? Susan: [00:06:43] That is such a big question. There's so many things, so many ways to answer that. The one thing that pops up in my mind is feeling like they need to have the answer to everything. So kind of similar to what you just shared, in a way. I think sometimes people feel like the job of the leader is to answer their direct reports’ questions, when in fact, how can you have the answer to everything? So the role of a leader is really to ask the right questions and to pull the answers out of the team. Sharon: [00:07:13] Oh, that is so awesome. And even that sometimes because we have, um, we meet with our leadership team here at It’s Time, and sometimes I don't even know what the right questions are. Like it's hard. Like, there's no way I know the answers. It's impossible. Like, I can't know everything. But to be able to reach out to your team and work with them and hopefully get them to be able to help you with it, is that the idea of it is? Susan: [00:07:38] Total. Yeah. And maybe it's asking your team, what do you think the most important questions are? We should be asking about this problem, right? Like maybe that is the first question if you're thinking, I don't know what to ask. Sharon: [00:07:50] That's right. Yeah, it's over my head. Gotcha. Very good. Okay, so we've been reading up on you and you’re a very clever lady, and everything about what you're promoting is… I'm picking up what you're laying down, so I really appreciate it. But in these sessions that I've been doing some research, you talk about clarity and courage and connection. How do these three things show up in great leadership? Susan: [00:08:11] Clarity, courage, and connection? Sharon: [00:08:14] That's a big one again. Sorry. Susan: [00:08:17] The three C's. Sharon: [00:08:18] The three C's. Susan: [00:08:20] Well, at PowerUp Leadership, we would say to always lead with connection because people don't care how much you know, if they don't feel like you care about them and their organization. And from there, I think you can ask the hard questions. So show up with courage. And from there, you can get clarity on what's important to the client or to the employee. So always lead with starting with connection. And that's easier said than done, right? Because different people are different. So you can't have a uniform approach to connection. But I think sometimes people rush past that and they underestimate the importance of it. Sharon: [00:09:06] So when you’re talking connection, would it be almost… like I use the word relationships. So like getting to know them and being comfortable with them, is that the connection? Like you're… is that what am I picking up, the same thing? Okay. Susan: [00:09:16] Yeah, definitely. And, like, rapport building. So really trying to understand the human behind the client or the organization. So they're not just, again, the job title. It's not just their role at work, but what drives them as a human being. What are their values? What motivates them? What do they care about? What the first topic they introduce in the discussion? And then I think you'll be able to service them better as far as the business requirements, if you really know a little bit about them. Sharon: [00:09:47] It's 100% for sure. I agree with that. For our industry is a little bit different because it's more so they can come in and if I get to know them, and now, especially after working for a few years, I can get a phone call saying, Sharon, I want something like this. And they trust me because like, not every promotional product will align with what they're wanting. Do you know what I mean? Like, so there's so many different things. But if I know their personality, I know what they're all about, who their end user is or who they're gifting them to, then it becomes easier. But you’ve got to have that relationship or that connection with them to be able to service them better. Susan: [00:10:18] Definitely. Yeah, 100%. And in the leadership development space that I'm in, it's so important because if you think about being coached by someone you're just meeting for the first time and you have to be very vulnerable about your weaknesses and what's not going well. That's a hard thing to do to be put under the microscope. So if that person doesn't build trust with you, and if you don't feel like they genuinely care about you, you're not going to feel comfortable opening up like that. Sharon: [00:10:50] So then you go into the courage. So you said, I think it was social up with courage. Can you explain that to us? Susan: [00:10:56] The example that comes up a lot, at least in my world, Sharon, is having the difficult conversations. So, I need to give feedback to one of my employees. I don't want to hurt them. I don't want them to quit. I don't want them to be stressed out because they already have a lot of problems outside of work right now. Like I don't want to just add to the load. And if you think about, like I always ask people, well, what about the best leaders you've worked for, what made them the best? And it's usually the leaders that give you the really hard feedback. And they help you grow, and they help you see a part of yourself that you might not be aware of. And I think people forget about the courage part of leadership, how that actually builds the relationship and how that actually helps make other people better leaders as well. And they think about it from a selfish standpoint, which is, what about my relationship with this person? What if they don't like me? What if I don't say this right? What if they quit and I have to find another person? Those are all very selfish intents versus I'm giving this information in a kind way to help this person. Sharon: [00:12:02] Gotcha. And I think something like that, for the courage part is don't let it fester. That's my key takeaway on that. Like, don't let it keep going on. You have to go right away and... Susan: [00:12:12] Pull the Band Aid off. Sharon: [00:12:12] Yes. Pull the Band Aid off and do it with their best interests at heart. You know, like, yes. Susan: [00:12:19] It's hard. It's hard. It takes a lot of energy, right? To have to give that type of feedback to somebody. Sharon: [00:12:26] And there's also different personalities we talked about before. Sometimes it's… those people are open, receptive because there's different personalities and sometimes they're not as open as, you know. So the different personalities that you have to deal with as well at the same time. Susan: [00:12:39] I remember walking a client through a 360, you know, have you ever done a 360? Sharon: [00:12:45] I don't think so. Susan: [00:12:46] It's a leadership report where you have feedback coming from the boss, the direct reports, the peers, and sometimes external people. So you get the 360 view of their leadership. And she had a really positive report where her feedback was that she was doing well. She was a good leader, but there was a couple pieces of developmental feedback that was coming from her boss in this case. We could see that it was from her boss, and she started crying during the debrief and it confused me because I'm looking at her report going, this is a great 360 report. Like, why is she crying? Right? I was trying to be empathetic and I was like asking, what's bothering you about this? And then when she came back the next session, she said, I reread the report and I, like I couldn't see all the positive because I was just zooming in on that one piece. Sharon: [00:13:41] Yes. And there are people that I have some of my team like, and it's great having them on my team. And I'm the… I'm blessed, don't get me wrong. But they focus on doing well. They're so focused on doing well and, which is great. But sometimes, you know, if you're looking out and feeding, doing that, resort, it almost like it'll hurt them, right? But meanwhile there's like 98 positive but there's 2%. And that's what they're going to focus on for sure. Susan: [00:14:05] For sure. But she was… this person was so happy to have gotten the feedback. But she wasn't happy right away. Like it took her time to, I guess, digest it. Sharon: [00:14:16] Gotcha. So that's called leadership 360. And does, do you guys offer that? Susan: [00:14:21] Yeah, we do different versions of it. Sometimes it's very customized where… I have a bunch of them today actually, where it's phone calls and it's live. And sometimes we order, it's called Leadership Circle Profile 360, which is more of a data-driven approach. And it's really helpful if you're coaching somebody because then it's not, like we all have blind spots, and if I'm coaching somebody, it's all their view of their development areas and their strengths. They're often missing something critical. So the 360 gives them those missing pieces from others’ feedback. Sharon: [00:14:58] Oh man that would be interesting. I don't know if… I might be that person too. I don't know if I'd want… I'm just kidding. I might be that person. Go into the… Yeah, actually, I think you can learn so much from that again. But you gotta be open minded. Susan: [00:15:11] Mhm. And you have to have the support to action some of the feedback because it drives me nuts when organizations do these 360 and then they don't provide the coaching support, because people if people knew how to fix what they weren't doing well they would have done it already, often. But if they don't have the coaching support to ask them the questions and to come up with a plan, it's like, to me it's cruel because you're like saying, fix this and not giving any support. Sharon: [00:15:37] Yeah. Fix this. Good luck. So that's… is that where you guys come in though? Is that something that you would coach with those people that went through that? Is that, is that your job description? Susan: [00:15:46] That's definitely something that we offer as a solution for sure. We do really customized leadership development programs. And often coaching is one-on-one confidential coaching with the International Coaching Federation credential coach, because there's lots of variabilities in coaching quality. Anyone can call themselves a coach, but we make sure we have people that know what they're doing. But yeah, we definitely offer that. Sharon: [00:16:12] You know, back in the day, probably ten years ago, I didn't know there was such thing as a business coach until ten years ago. Susan: [00:16:21] There's a coach for everything now. It's funny how it's really grown. It's a $5 billion a year global industry. And, like, you can hire a coach for anything. Like, you know, some people have, you know, ten coaches. Financial, health, relationships, business, like you name it, they have like an expert helping them improve in that area of their life. Sharon: [00:16:47] Yeah, I was going to say it was like, maybe it's because I had my head underneath a rock, but I never heard of it as much until like from the last ten years, it's more and more. Actually, I was listening to a book by Jen Sincero and I was having trouble at work financially. Oil crashed. There was a whole thing going on and I just bought another location and it was… I thought I was losing everything and I was listening to this book. Have you ever read that book by Jen Sincero, You Are a Badass. Susan: [00:17:10] No, I'm going to read it now, though. Sharon: [00:17:12] It's good. She spoke to me. She's my girl because she's just as much as I do. But anyways, and with it, was a lot of education, but in there she talked about a business coach and I've never heard of it before. So I thought, okay, well that's interesting. So I researched it and until today I still have a business coach, like I have a business coach in my pocket and he literally changed my life. So I think coaching some people are proud to... Do you find that still do you find some business leaders or some corporations still have that proud and they think they don't need it? Do you find that at all or do you think that's a thing of the past? Susan: [00:17:45] I think there's a little bit of that. What I find more of sometimes is business owners who, they don't want to invest money in their own development, right? And I personally have an unlimited budget when it comes to my own development, because I know that the coaches I've worked with, you know, I've gotten 5 to 10 times return what I've spent on working with them. So I'll always kind of push back and say, really? Do you have a cap on your own development? Like, you know what? Tell me more about why you don't invest in yourself. Sharon: [00:18:20] Yeah. It's the truth. Susan: [00:18:22] Because if they don't have confidence to invest in themselves, I don't have confidence that they're going to grow their business if they don't trust that they're a good investment. Sharon: [00:18:29] Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I forget what book it was, but they talked about, you know, why do you think that, you know, sports or people in the, you know, or have a coach. There's a reason why. There's a reason why people have coaches, right? So there's no difference in us needing a coach. There's absolutely no difference. And sometimes for me, like my business coach, he keeps my mind straight. Sometimes it's like… because it's like there's squirrels. They run everywhere. Like, it's just like constantly. And I, I just need to reach out and say, okay and then okay, and then he'll get me through it. Right? So there's so many good things and there's… yeah, it's… I strongly believe in coaching. So if anybody needs a coach, reach out to you because I think they're fabulous. Susan: [00:19:06] And we do complimentary chemistry calls. Like I have 40 ICF coaches from coast to coast in Canada and the US. And if people want to just try out a 20-minute chemistry call and see if it's a fit, there's no obligation, there's no cost. I mean, ideally they are searching for a coach and they're trying to find the right match. I don’t want to waste my coaches’ time unnecessarily. But that's really the point of it, right? To test drive it and see if they get value out of that 20 minutes, and often they'll sign up at the end of it. Sharon: [00:19:37] And what did you call it again? What kind of? Susan: [00:19:39] We call it Chemistry Call. Sharon: [00:19:41] Chemistry. Susan: [00:19:42] It's just, it's a match from both sides because sometimes the coach, you know, doesn't want to work with the client. It has to be someone they feel they can help. So it's good for them to test it out before signing up for an engagement. Sharon: [00:19:53] Mhm. Even when I reached out to my coach a long time ago, it was based on… because there was multiple coaches there as well. He's out of Calgary. And it was I met with him but he told me it might not be with him. Like I ended up staying with him. But it was like based on personality and that's how it goes from there. And I did get switched over to a coach one time, and then I ended up back with him because it wasn't a match. It wasn't the perfect match. So it was. Yeah. That's true, right? You’ve got to be able to have that person. Susan: [00:20:18] It looks good on paper sometimes, but then you gotta feel comfortable communicating with that person. Sharon: [00:20:22] Because you're going deep. Like there's some things that I don't even, you know, when he knows everything about me and my to my core, you know. So like, it's important that you have that trust and that relationship. Susan: [00:20:33] Yeah, definitely. Sharon: [00:20:35] Okay. So because you work a lot with leaders facing big changes, right? You do? Like big changes. What separates the ones who thrive from the ones who struggle? So we're talking about what would be an example of a big change for you before we go to the second part? Susan: [00:20:50] So the type of organization we often work with is hyper-growth businesses. And they're changing a lot because they're scaling so quickly. Often they might even have a new leadership team or a new CEO, which is a huge change for an organization. So we work with the executive to help them meet their targets. And a lot of these companies are backed by private equity. So there's a lot of aggressive performance targets that they need to meet. So coaching helps increase the chance of them being successful meeting their business goals. Sharon: [00:21:29] So you see a lot of hyper-growth. Is there... Sorry this is way off topic or off topic. Is it in certain industries that are the hyper growth, do you see anything like a consensus there? They're not really… Susan: [00:21:40] I guess every industry would… there be facets of it. But where we focus a lot is with technology firms. Sharon: [00:21:47] Hence the hyper-growth. Technology has taken over the world. Okay. What separates the ones who thrive and the ones who struggle then? So we’ve got hyper-growth companies who’ve got to perform because they’ve got private equities in there. So what separates the ones who thrive and one who struggles? Susan: [00:22:04] The companies that struggle, I suppose there could be a variety of drivers for that. But from a leadership perspective, I think that leaders sometimes are not self-aware in terms of where they need to improve, and they don't always invite feedback from their teams. So John Maxwell, you might have heard of him. He's… I love him. He's written hundreds of leadership books, and he has what he calls the Law of the Lid, that a company can't outgrow its top leader. That unless that leader is growing their capabilities, the company is just going to like, you know, bottleneck at that leader. So to me, that's the perfect analogy of, that's what a hyper-growth does. It invests in its leaders and it grows with the company. And a company that's failing doesn't grow with its leaders, and it stalls out. Sharon: [00:23:00] Interesting. So you literally hit the ceiling. That's it? Susan: [00:23:04] Mhm. I think so, because unless you're constantly like… the market's changing so quickly and smart people want to work for smart growing leaders. So unless the leader is growing they're just going to have a losing team. Sharon: [00:23:17] Mhm. Mhm. Okay. And because these is… like you're talking about the hypergrowth you're talking about bigger companies. Susan: [00:23:23] What do you think, Sharon? Like what's your experience? Sharon: [00:23:27] For me, in a smaller beast, I feel… and again this goes back to my business coach as well. So it's exactly what you're talking about. You're hitting the ceiling. But in order for me to take my team past that ceiling, I need to focus more on business instead of in business. Does that make sense? Like, I need to focus on what goes, how to get through that ceiling. I need to focus more on business. And right now I still do some in business, right? So I got to be able to take time off and focus more on what the company needs, instead of what the customers need. Does that make sense? Susan: [00:24:00] If you get pulled into solving the customer's problems, that's less time you can spend on the business. Sharon: [00:24:06] Yeah. So, like, I don't think small businesses can get through that ceiling, in my take of it if you're in business. Susan: [00:24:15] I think you're right, too. And I think a lot of leaders tell me that they run out of time to coach their teams and to develop their teams, but unless you're doing that, you're always going to get sucked in, as the owner and leader of the business, you're always going to get sucked into solving the customer's problems because the team needs you to coach them and help them level up their skills. So it's kind of like a hamster wheel sometimes for leaders, they feel… they get stuck. Sharon: [00:24:43] Yeah. And we start a business because we know what we're doing. Well, kind of. You know as you go. But after 18 years, you don't get to do that anymore. Like you don't, you know, you start doing something, but the company evolves and you're doing more leadership. Like, instead of, I'm not running the embroidery machine anymore. I'm not, you know, downstairs doing the silkscreening machine anymore. Like, I'm not doing that stuff anymore. I'm in leadership now. So that's my role. And in order for me to be better, I got to learn from people like you and books like from John C Maxwell and all those kinds of things to be a better person. Like, I got to invest in myself to be better, to get through that ceiling is what I think leaders have to do as well. Susan: [00:25:18] I agree with you, definitely. And it can be hard sometimes to let go of that. I know I've been doing less coaching work. I still do delivery, I still do coaching, but I will often get my coaches and my team capped out first, before like, I'm capped out. And it's hard because finding this balance of you still want to be, you know, still engaging with customers a little bit. And like, I love coaching and you love your customers, but it's like, where's the right balance so you're not doing too much, but you know, still doing enough? Sharon: [00:25:52] And you know, you created it's like a baby. Does that make sense? Like this is a business that you created. And it's like, hard to say, good luck. Make sure you, you know, treat my customers properly and make sure you do a good job on those work orders. It's a baby. Susan: [00:26:06] Definitely. It feels good to be wanted and pulled into things. But at the same time, like my coach would always say, the real test is could you go on vacation for two weeks and the company is still going to make money? Things aren't going to come to a grinding halt. The team knows what to do. You’ve got processes, systems, trained people, and like you should be able to go on vacation for two weeks and people are fine. They don't really notice you're gone as a leader. But most small business owners, that's not the case, right? They're still working when they're on vacation. Sharon: [00:26:35] Yes. Okay. What can leaders do to stay grounded and resilient during rapid growth or uncertainty? Okay. We talked about rapid growth. So now we've got uncertainty. So what can they do to stay grounded and resilient? Susan: [00:26:48] There's a lot of uncertainty. I think it comes down to what they do to be the best human they can be. Like are they going to the gym seven days a week? Are they reading every day? How much time do they spend with friends and families? So all the other parts of your life outside of work, that makes me resilient. Like if I don't go to the gym every morning, I am not a nice person, right? I get moody, I get, and I can't focus. Like, I just get my… it hurts my mental health if I don't go to the gym. And it keeps me like my coach always says, exhaust the body to tame the mind. And that so resonates with me because. Yeah. So having your habits in place to keep yourself resilient. Sharon: [00:27:36] Okay. I really like that. So have your habits in place whether that be like. So one thing to, I like to do is journal because like my brain is full, which is an entrepreneurial thing I believe. So I like to journal because I need to get my brain settled. So maybe I should take up the gym instead again. Or do both. Yes. Susan: [00:27:57] Journaling is really great. Like you said, it dumps like all those thoughts, gets them down on paper so you can clear your mind and you do that every day? Sharon: [00:28:06] Yeah, I have to journal every day. I can't, it's… otherwise I'll wake up in the middle of night or something like it's crazy. It's my way of of detoxing my brain. Okay. What advice would you give to leaders feeling burned out or overwhelmed? Okay, I'm going to take notes on this one because this is… you're speaking to me directly right now, feeling burned out or overwhelmed. I'm in my Christmas season, so this is chaos season for us. Susan: [00:28:27] Oh, a busy time of year. A lot of leaders are in burnout. And I mean, if you can recognize that before you're officially burnt out, it's good news because there's still time to take action. I think a lot of it comes down to the stories we tell ourselves. So if we keep saying, I'm so overwhelmed, I'm so stressed, I'm drowning. Like it's just going to make you feel more burnt out, more stressed. So I know it sounds like a simple thing, but even just like reframing that to, I am so grateful I have an abundance of work right now. What a great problem to have. Like, it just feels really different than, I'm burning out. And I know I'm oversimplifying what's a very complicated problem, because some people are, like on the brink of burnout. But if you there's a difference between overwhelmed and burnout. So that's the first thing that comes to mind. And then the second thing is really understanding, are you on the brink of burnout? Because if you are on the brink of burnout, maybe there's some major changes you need to make, like looking at your work hours or increasing the size of your team or asking for help. Sharon: [00:29:38] Right, right. I like the mindset shift. I think our minds are so powerful, which we all know. Our minds are so powerful. So if you can take your words to heart about doing that mindset shift and talking to yourself in the proper terminology, it does make a huge difference. And it's a practice. It doesn't come overnight. Susan: [00:29:57] Totally. Yeah Sharon: [00:29:58] It's hard to shift that. Like I even do simple words like I have to… Do you ever do that? And I have to, like, back up and say, I get to like, it's so crazy. Just one simple word, but it makes a huge difference. Huge. Susan: [00:30:12] It definitely does. Yeah, because the words we use inform our feelings, how we're feeling, and then our actions, what we do or don't do. So words really are important. Sharon: [00:30:24] So do that mindset. So the ones that are feeling burnt out and overwhelmed just change your mindset. Word your words differently. More positive. Am I picking up right? Change them to more positive? Susan: [00:30:35] I think so. And then if you're still feeling like no, like I am, I'm dying here, I'm burnt out, even when you're changing your words. Well, maybe that's a sign that you’ve got to dig deeper, that there is something that really is broken. And it's not just stress because a certain amount of stress is good, right? But I have worked with leaders that have come back from burnout, where they actually have to take a leave of absence and they have a health failure. And, because these things don't happen overnight. So I guess it's understanding, you know, are you really on the brink of burnout or are you just overwhelmed? Sharon: [00:31:09] Yeah, I went to… Actually it's funny, I had a doctor's appointment on Monday, I think it was. Anyways, I said, hey, doctor, I think I'm gonna have a heart attack. I think, like, I'm literally, I'm 57. Like, am I gonna have a heart attack? Because I feel like I'm overworked. And so he checked my blood pressure. He goes, no, you're not going to have a heart attack cause it's good. Like anyways, he says, Sharon, some people thrive on that. Some people and I do like I'm an adrenaline junkie. So for me, I thrive on that. But just the fact that I was 57, I wanted to make sure, you know, I'm getting up in age. I maybe have to slow down a little bit, but it is something like it's a different… And he said that people have different personalities. Susan: [00:31:41] Totally. Yeah. I'm glad that you had it checked and you weren't on the brink of heart attack. Imagine if he had said, whoa, this is a problem. That would be a different story altogether. Sharon: [00:31:55] Yeah, we had a good chuckle anyways. It was. Yeah. So it was good. Okay. You've coached many women in leadership. What strengths do women naturally bring to these roles? Susan: [00:32:04] A lot of women leaders, not all but a lot of women leaders I find are really strong with empathy, which is a superpower when it comes to leadership, tuning into your own emotions and others emotions and communicating in a way that's emotionally intelligent. Where women leaders often, often sell themselves short, is they feel like they need to be perfect. I hear this a lot on coaching calls that, you know, I'm a woman. I'm in the leadership role. I feel all this pressure for the women that are in the ranks below, that want to move up, that I don't want to screw it up for them. I don't want to screw it up for myself. I have daughters, whatever. Sharon: [00:32:44] Right, yes. Susan: [00:32:45] And I don't think that helps you by putting this pressure on yourself as a woman leader, that you're responsible for all future women leaders. But it's funny, people… I hear this all the time from women leaders. So that's just one kind of idea that comes to mind. Sharon: [00:33:02] Is, I guess that's true because as a woman, I think we're naturally empathic, like you said, but sometimes it could be almost too much, like I'm almost too nurturing. I'm too nurturing sometimes, you know, like, I always want the best for everybody, right? Like, that's my gift, is I always want the best for everybody. And whether that be my team. So sometimes, you know, we might hire somebody and they might not be the right fit on the bus or fit on that seat. And it's like, okay, well, there might be another spot in our organization where there'll be a better fit. So then I'm trying to find that right fit before it's a no-go. So sometimes that might prolong, prolong, prolong. And then all of a sudden, you know, like, thank goodness we don't have a high turnaround. But that's something that I'm always trying to find the right seat on the bus. Susan: [00:33:44] Right. And in some cases it might be like, well, there's no right seat on the bus. This person needs to go. Sharon: [00:33:49] Yes. And that has happened a couple times in my mind, where I've left it too long because I keep thinking that, you know, I can make this work, I can help them, but it's not… it's not a… I shouldn't have to help them. They have to help themselves. Susan: [00:34:01] Definitely. Sharon: [00:34:01] That's a motherly trait unfortunately. Right. Like it's a good thing being a woman. But there's some negatives I feel. Susan: [00:34:08] Well, it's funny to me the strength and the weakness are opposite sides of the coin. So if empathy is the superpower strength, so amazing. People love to work with leaders that feel what their emotions are and can respond in a way that's empathetic. But I think about making emotional decisions, right? Like, I'm guilty of this sometimes. Something will tick me off and I'll, you know, and I know better. So I'm in the leadership space, but I'll write an email that's a little bit pointy because it feels good in the moment. And then afterwards I'll think, why did I do that? Like, that was not the right thing to do. And then I know I did it because I felt emotional and I'm responding to that. So that's where sometimes women can get themselves into trouble versus, okay, let's take a breath and take a step back. And because I think generally when men are more emotional, that's the natural male response to get quiet and kind of go inward. And sometimes women just vocalize it some more, more quickly and that can get women into trouble sometimes. Sharon: [00:35:14] I think so too. Susan: [00:35:15] And men, too. Some men are like that, but just as a generalization. Sharon: [00:35:19] But men just, it wipes off their back, you know what I mean? It's like another minute they're back to their own selves, right? Whereas women, it's like we're different. We're different. But again, I think it's more of a superpower than anything. I strongly do one thing too. I find for myself, I think it's easy to take advantage of me because I let things go, you know what I mean? It's like, it's okay, it's okay. It's okay that you're ten minutes late. It's okay that you, you know, your kids are sick and we can't come in today. It's okay that you don't have a backup plan. It's okay. Susan: [00:35:47] That nurturing like. Yes, we'll figure this out together. Sharon: [00:35:51] We'll figure this out together. And it's. Susan: [00:35:53] People can take advantage of that. I think you're, I think you're smart to tune into that. Sharon: [00:35:59] So that's one thing again. But that's my trait. And because I've been coached, it's like, so that's my trait and I'm going to treat it like a superpower. But I have a general manager and that's where that comes in because that unfortunately is, so now they have to report to her for time off and all that kind of stuff, like there's a system in place for it to offset my… Susan: [00:36:18] That's smart. So that, then you've delegated it to the general manager, so you don't have to deal with that. Sharon: [00:36:24] And systems implemented. Like there's things that are covering my areas that I struggle with. Anyways, that's my key takeaway for that. Sharon: [00:36:29] That’s smart. Susan: [00:36:31] Yeah. Systems. Sharon: [00:36:33] Okay. What challenges do women still face in business today as a business woman? And we shouldn't have challenges anymore. But we do. What are they? Susan: [00:36:41] Getting access to capital. I don't have the statistics at my fingertips right now, but I know I've heard it over and over again. It's much harder for women business owners to access capital. And you'd think in this day and age, the banks would be equitable in that regard. But it's not. So that's definitely one. And even sometimes access to mentors and coaches, that's no problem. You can always hire a coach. But the network, right? The old boys club still exists in some industries. Sharon: [00:37:14] Yeah. So I'm part of WPO, which is Women's Presidential Organization. Susan: [00:37:18] Oh, good for you. Sharon: [00:37:19] Yeah. So anyways, in that organization, we, BMO, I think, is one of the stronger advocates for women in business. Did you stumble across that in your research at all? Have you heard that at all? Susan: [00:37:30] I know they're a sponsor of EO Atlantic chapter, which is in my region, BMO Bank. But yeah, I didn't know they were more of an entrepreneurial bank. Sharon: [00:37:39] I haven't dug into it, but I've heard that they're very much focused on women in business. Susan: [00:37:45] Women. Okay.That's good to know. Sharon: [00:37:46] Yeah. And what was the other drawback? Finances. What was the other one? Susan: [00:37:49] The accessing networks that are more male-dominated networks. Sharon: [00:37:54] Mhm. And I think sometimes for that, women, you know, they go home and they still have children to do, they still are doing the other stuff too. So your network is usually after hours a lot of times. Susan: [00:38:02] That can be a barrier. Sharon: [00:38:04] It's a barrier I think.I'm at the age now where kids are gone. Bye. See ya. No. Some women get like that empty nest syndrome. I didn't have that. But anyways, so we started a chapter here in Lloydminster, BNI, which is… Because I'm... I know it sounds crazy because I have this podcast, but I'm actually introverted. I'm exhausted at the end of the day. And for me to go to make small talk and faces or places that I'm uncomfortable, it's not easy for me. So I've, we've have BNI and it's a structured program. I get to go in, I talk to other business owners in our community. It's a win for me because networking is huge. I think you need to network. You need to be out there in order to grow your business. Susan: [00:38:45] I think you're right and it takes a lot of energy. And I'm introverted as well. So after being on calls all day with people, as much as I enjoy it, I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm exhausted. And now I'm supposed to go to a networking event? Sharon: [00:38:58] Yeah, I'll think of everything possible. Oh, I got… stubbed my toe. Like, I don't know what it is. I'll think of anything possible to get out of it because I'm exhausted. Susan: [00:39:06] Yeah, you just have to. You just have to show up, right? Usually if I go, I'll be, I'll get there, I'll go, Oh, that, you know, that was actually kind of okay. Sharon: [00:39:15] And you meet people and there's always something you can take away from it. So go to those networking events if you want to grow your business, network as a woman, for sure. Okay, I know we're at, it’s 1153 or we're only a couple of minutes left, so I'm going to take… We're going to jump over with practical takeaways. If someone could make just one small change this week to become a better leader, what would you suggest? Susan: [00:39:37] I would suggest carving out some time for it on your schedule. So maybe it's reflection time once a week, Friday morning, if that's a quieter day for you, of thinking about your goals, what you did well that week, celebrating your successes and what went off the rails that week. So you're kind of looking at, well, where do I need help? And maybe you start using some of that time to work with a mentor or a coach or an advisor, and you're trying to fix what's broken versus just rinse and repeat and having the same fires you're putting out month after month. They just keep reemerging their ugly head. So you're taking time to work on yourself as the leader of the business. Sharon: [00:40:23] I like that it's a reflection time once a week. What was a win? What you need help with? There was three things. Susan: [00:40:29] There could be coaching as part of that. Maybe that's partly working with the coach as well. At PowerUp Leadership, we certainly could help you on that front. But I think leaders just spread themselves too thin and they don't carve out that investment time of learning, development, working on their leadership skills, reading, going on podcasts, listening to podcasts, like all these, these things that are going to help them. They just run out of time and then they never happen as much as they need to. Sharon: [00:40:58] I think for me, the podcast is when I'm out and about for a walk. That's my thing, is I like to listen to podcasts when I'm out. Susan: [00:41:04] I do that too. When I'm walking my dog, I'll have my headphones on. Listen to Mel Robbins. Sharon: [00:41:09] Yeah, and I do drive a lot. So often when I'm driving, sometimes at the end of the day, I have to turn everything off because again, I'm exhausted. Right? So sometimes it's just pure silence, which is rewarding as well. Okay. What are some daily habits or mindset shifts? We talked about mindset shifts that help leaders stay intentional. Susan: [00:41:26] One that I really like is your energy announces you before you say a single word when you walk into a room. Because I think people sometimes don't have a vibe check. Like, say you're having a bad day and then you walk into a room. People can feel that, especially if they know you. They can like, oh, something's off with them. But if you just take, like a reset moment and kind of check in. So I'm very conscious of energy. To me, like, everything is about energy. So I'm always like asking people, tell me about your level of energy today. How would you describe how you're feeling today? What's something you can do to elevate your energy? And it's not all about physical energy. It's emotional energy. Spiritual energy. So I don't think we talk about it enough sometimes, like in corporate workplaces it’s kind of like maybe… maybe we're getting better at it, but I think it's such an important topic. Sharon: [00:42:23] Yeah, I like checking it. Checking it. I know this, I got to talk faster here, but a guy I know, he's a business owner and he had one person that his cup’s always half empty. So he drained energy and he would suck it out of everybody else. So he literally made a point of going and having coffee with this person every morning, sitting with them for ten, fifteen minutes. And all he did was get his energy up because he recognized and this guy didn't know it, and like he couldn't do it himself. Like he knew it was a thing. But like, this guy would have coffee and he would get, you know, share his positive energy with him. But how much it would suck from everybody else. If you do an energy check before you walk in those four walls. Right? Is that kind of what you're thinking of? Because it can… it's, it really could ruin the whole place. Susan: [00:43:03] Oh, totally. Toxic leadership, right? It's a problem. And that guy, that example you just gave, he must have been a saint to go and pour from his cup. Sharon: [00:43:013] 100% saint. Susan: [00:43:16] Most people wouldn't do that. That's impressive. Sharon: [00:43:19] Yeah, because he has, like, the guy has great work ethics. Everything else is great, is just. And once he got him going, then he was fine. Like, isn't that amazing that he even seen that? So anyways, yes. Susan: [00:43:29] But on that point, great leaders do that, right? That is the job of the leader. Because if things are like falling to shit, for lack of a better way to say it, the leader goes in, they’re honest, but they're positive. They pick people up, they encourage them like they're pouring into other people constantly. So that is the job of a leader. Sharon: [00:43:50] That is the job. And he does it... Yeah. Anyways, I picked up on that story and I was dumbfounded when I heard it and it was so true. I can also understand it. Okay, so we're better jump forward here. Can I just ask one more question? What's one thing every leader should do to make a bigger impact in their business or team? Susan: [00:44:08] Listen more to their team. Ask more questions. Sharon: [00:44:13] Ask more questions. Maybe do this 360 Report on yourself. Susan: [00:44:17] That's a good place to start. Yeah. Sharon: [00:44:19] Yeah. That's I think that's a really clever thing. Okay. So listen, what are your thinks about even if somebody of a smaller scale, do I think you can do it unanimous. What if you did, like, a Google form or something? Would that be something that would be. Or you just open up a can of worms there? Susan: [00:44:34] Well, you can, but sometimes people are worried about confidentiality. Who's going to read this? So you just have to manage the process really intentionally. Sharon: [00:44:45] Mhm, mhm. Okay. Best leadership advice you've ever received. Susan: [00:44:51] You're capable of so much more than you give yourself credit for. I think we underestimate all of us, what we're able to do and the impact we're able to have. Sharon: [00:45:01] Thank you. And there are resources. There are people like you out there. If you're feeling that you're got that imposter syndrome or you're feeling that you can't do it, then there's people like you that they can reach out to and get that support and get them back in their playing field and help them launch forward, I believe. Susan: [00:45:16] Totally. Your listeners are welcome to reach out. Susan@PowerUpLeadership.ca is my email address. I'm happy to point you in the right direction or provide whatever free resources we have on leadership. It's one of my favourite topics, so feel free to reach out. Sharon: [00:45:33] Well, you're very good at it, obviously, because I could have talked for another hour. Okay, Susan, thank you so much for sharing your insights and experience. You've reminded us that leadership isn't about authority. It's about authenticity, courage, and creating space where others can succeed. To our listeners, remember, great leadership doesn't happen by accident. It's built one conversation, one decision, and one act of courage at a time. Until next time, keep building your success. One step, one story, one lesson at a time. Thank you for listening, everybody.