Latest / Dear Divorce Diary: A Fresh Approach To Healing Grief & Building A Life Of Confidence After Divorce / 375. Good News and Bad News About Why You Can’t Let Go After Divorce (Pt. 2)

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375. Good News and Bad News About Why You Can’t Let Go After Divorce (Pt. 2) · Dear Divorce Diary: A Fresh Approach To Healing Grief & Building A Life Of Confidence After Divorce

0:00
SPEAKER_02: Darlings, we are back for part two today.
0:03
SPEAKER_02: We don't do part twos very often.
0:06
SPEAKER_05: I I don't know why.
0:07
SPEAKER_05: But we don't made nonverbal.
0:16
SPEAKER_03: We don't know if we can't see us.
0:19
SPEAKER_04: Don't see us.
0:20
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
0:22
SPEAKER_04: We were very excited.
0:23
SPEAKER_05: We were excited in the camera.
0:25
SPEAKER_05: I was doing a happy dance.
0:26
SPEAKER_05: Okay.
0:27
SPEAKER_02: Can I tell you about like this unsuspecting joy I've been experiencing lately?
0:31
unknown: Yes.
0:32
SPEAKER_02: When you get in my car and you turn it on and it's got the screen.
0:35
SPEAKER_02: Like a lot of cars have screens these days, right?
0:37
SPEAKER_02: Like not all of them, but many, right?
0:39
SPEAKER_02: Modern cars have screens.
0:40
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
0:40
SPEAKER_02: So, but if you've got it on just the right setting, it will take a picture from my iPhone gallery and put it on the little thing.
0:48
SPEAKER_02: And so now every time we get in, Grace has now made a point of putting it on the right setting and looking at the picture.
0:54
SPEAKER_02: And it could go all the way back in my iPhone gallery, which could be like 15 years.
0:58
SPEAKER_02: And it will just pull out some gem.
1:01
SPEAKER_02: Could be like an old friend.
1:03
SPEAKER_02: It could be Grace when she was little.
1:04
SPEAKER_02: It could be like anything.
1:05
SPEAKER_02: And it's just been like this lovely little random piece of joy.
1:11
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
1:12
unknown: Isn't it?
1:14
SPEAKER_05: I will say when I got in the car with you for the first time when we started like visiting in person and hanging out, you have great book and taste in music.
1:21
SPEAKER_05: Like I was very impressed when I got in the car, and it was like, I think it was like some Caribbean shit.
1:26
SPEAKER_05: And I was like, hell yeah.
1:28
SPEAKER_04: Like this is but like the theme about her music is it's an excellent, but it's the most eclectic.
1:35
SPEAKER_04: She'll have like DMX to um, you know, like Margaret Hall.
1:41
SPEAKER_04: Like you name it, right?
1:41
SPEAKER_02: So Grace and I got to debate this week about what's my music and what's her music because I played for her recently 99 left balloons, 90, 99 red balloons.
1:53
SPEAKER_02: That song is from 1983.
1:54
SPEAKER_02: We were listening to it, and um, we figured out it's about war, which I sort of knew in the back of my mind.
2:00
SPEAKER_02: But now she listens to it in the shower, right?
2:02
SPEAKER_02: So she tells me she doesn't like my music, but then like Florence in the machines, she'll play like she loves my music.
2:08
SPEAKER_03: Love it.
2:09
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
2:10
SPEAKER_05: My kid also has an amazing, like she's DMX to Frank Sinatra.
2:13
SPEAKER_05: Like I love music.
2:15
SPEAKER_05: Right.
2:16
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
2:17
SPEAKER_04: That's fun.
2:17
SPEAKER_04: That's fun.
2:18
SPEAKER_04: So how was your weekends, ladies?
2:20
SPEAKER_04: So tell me one fun fact.
2:23
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I went on a hiking retreat this weekend with a hundred other women from all over the state of South Carolina.
2:28
SPEAKER_04: Get it.
2:29
SPEAKER_05: Um, I did the hardest hike I've ever done in my entire life, but it was absolutely amazing, and I cannot wait to go back.
2:37
SPEAKER_02: I meant to ask you this morning if you were having trouble walking.
2:39
SPEAKER_02: Like I'm super sore.
2:41
SPEAKER_05: No, I'm not, which is crazy.
2:43
SPEAKER_05: Like I have been so dialed into my nutrition and replenishment and all of that.
2:48
SPEAKER_05: And so even when we got up to the crazy ass mountain, I was already taking creatine gummies and protein replacements and electrolytes while we were like enjoying this beautiful view.
2:58
SPEAKER_05: Yes.
3:01
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
3:01
SPEAKER_05: Like it was fine.
3:02
SPEAKER_05: And then I did a lot of stretching yesterday.
3:04
SPEAKER_05: I did a nice warm bath.
3:05
SPEAKER_05: Like, I feel great.
3:06
SPEAKER_05: I'm I could, I don't want to say this, but I could fucking do it again today, maybe.
3:10
SPEAKER_05: I don't know.
3:12
SPEAKER_04: That's magic.
3:13
SPEAKER_05: Did I say that?
3:14
SPEAKER_05: I don't know.
3:14
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
3:15
SPEAKER_05: I feel like it's like giving birth, honestly.
3:17
SPEAKER_05: Like women forget the pain and then they're like, yes, I want to do it again.
3:21
SPEAKER_05: That's how I feel, right?
3:22
SPEAKER_05: Because you get pain.
3:24
SPEAKER_02: I don't remember rebounding in two days from giving birth.
3:27
SPEAKER_02: I remember that icy taco thing they made me.
3:30
SPEAKER_02: Anyways, we digress.
3:32
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
3:33
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
3:33
SPEAKER_02: Part two.
3:34
SPEAKER_02: Can we can we do part two?
3:36
SPEAKER_02: Yes, let's do part two.
3:43
SPEAKER_02: Hi, love.
3:44
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Dear Divorce Diary, the podcast helping divorcees go beyond talk therapy to process your grief, find the healing you crave, and build back your confidence.
3:54
SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Don Wiggins, a therapist, coach, integrative healer, and divorcee.
4:00
SPEAKER_02: Join me for a fresh approach to healing grief and building your confidence after divorce.
4:13
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
4:14
SPEAKER_02: Last week we decided to unpack for our listeners what a healing plan actually like looks like needs to be, and how to actually know from somewhat of a concrete perspective, right?
4:28
SPEAKER_02: Like, what is it that I'm carrying?
4:31
SPEAKER_02: What is it that we can sort of define as what I'm trying to recover from right now in this season of life?
4:36
SPEAKER_02: And is my healing plan sufficient or does it match, right?
4:40
SPEAKER_02: Because the solution has to be greater than the problem.
4:44
SPEAKER_02: Means the dose and potency has to outmatch the pain, right?
4:47
SPEAKER_02: There has to be outreach.
4:49
SPEAKER_02: It like the solution has to outreach the problem.
4:52
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
4:53
SPEAKER_02: So we went through the first four things, which is defining what you're actually carrying, recognizing if you're safe and safe and stable enough for deeper healing, looking to see if you have an information problem or an integration problem, right?
5:05
SPEAKER_02: Most for most people, it's often integration.
5:08
SPEAKER_02: And then is the current dose of support big enough?
5:12
SPEAKER_02: So now today, in today's episode, we're going to dig into the second half of the checklist.
5:18
SPEAKER_02: The checklist you will find a link for in the show notes.
5:20
SPEAKER_02: All right.
5:21
SPEAKER_02: So number five in the list of eight is, and this is a big deal.
5:26
SPEAKER_02: Do I have the right tools for the actual wound?
5:30
SPEAKER_02: Because not every problem is solved by the same modality.
5:35
SPEAKER_02: So I was on the phone this weekend with a cardiosurgeon, and we had this conversation, right?
5:43
SPEAKER_02: Because if you have a problem with your aorta, you need a heart surgeon.
5:48
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:48
SPEAKER_02: Not a not a podiatrist.
5:51
SPEAKER_02: Not a podiatrist.
5:53
unknown: Yeah.
5:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:54
SPEAKER_02: And so I think that this is an incredibly underrated and really confusing part of the gig, right?
6:00
SPEAKER_02: Like because as a lay person, how do you know which types of wounds or issues need which types of healers or modalities, right?
6:10
SPEAKER_02: So all right.
6:13
SPEAKER_02: Let's look at for a moment.
6:14
SPEAKER_02: I'm just going to read through some things, right?
6:15
SPEAKER_02: And then we can talk about this.
6:17
SPEAKER_02: Because one practitioner doesn't necessarily need to provide all these things, nor can they most of the time, right?
6:22
SPEAKER_02: And that's why we have a team over here because we have multiple modalities, right?
6:27
SPEAKER_02: EMDR, EMDR, IFS, somatics, uh, homeopathy, the group aspect.
6:33
SPEAKER_02: Like it's like one practitioner cannot provide all of the things, right?
6:40
SPEAKER_02: So are you actually trying to change?
6:44
SPEAKER_02: Do you need more information?
6:45
SPEAKER_02: Do you need more understanding, psychoeducation, language, or perspective?
6:49
SPEAKER_02: I think that's about a thing we need in bits along the way, right?
6:53
SPEAKER_02: We we need more awareness, more understanding as we go.
6:56
SPEAKER_02: Do you need more stabilization, safety, sleep, regulation, routines, practical support?
7:01
SPEAKER_02: Do you need skills?
7:02
SPEAKER_02: Like, do you need to understand the mechanics of and implement the mechanics of how to implement boundaries, shifting your communication, knowing how to do emotional expression and then regulation?
7:15
SPEAKER_02: Right there is a nuance, right?
7:17
SPEAKER_02: Because we talked about regulation, right?
7:20
SPEAKER_02: But we're not doing enough discharge or expression.
7:23
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
7:24
SPEAKER_02: Do you need dating discernment skills?
7:26
SPEAKER_02: Or do you need trauma processing?
7:29
SPEAKER_02: Do you recognize that any attachment wounding actually ties back to earlier trauma processing and experiences that still remain charged?
7:37
SPEAKER_02: Do you need help thawing your dissociative process?
7:41
SPEAKER_02: Do you look back at your childhood and say, actually, it was fine?
7:43
SPEAKER_02: And then that tells you you need help thawing dissociation.
7:47
SPEAKER_02: Do you need attachment work changing what happens inside of your relationships and not just romantic ones and not just understanding your attachment style?
7:55
SPEAKER_02: But do you need help changing the brain map and your nervous system response to relationship shit?
8:01
SPEAKER_02: Do you need somatic work?
8:03
SPEAKER_02: Do you need to learn how to discharge from your body?
8:06
SPEAKER_02: Do you need to figure out how to help your body experience safety rather than you know, sort of trying to force yourself to believe you're safe?
8:15
SPEAKER_02: Do you need grief work?
8:16
SPEAKER_02: Do you need parts work?
8:17
SPEAKER_02: Do you need community?
8:18
SPEAKER_02: Do you need practical support?
8:20
SPEAKER_02: Do you need integration?
8:21
SPEAKER_02: Right.
8:22
SPEAKER_02: But do you have practitioners that can do the thing that you need?
8:28
SPEAKER_02: What have y'all noticed, like in the wild, with most people and their healers that they have or maybe don't have?
8:39
SPEAKER_02: I've had a lot of women when I've been doing calls.
8:42
SPEAKER_02: Um I've had a lot of women say they have amazing therapists who are so loving, so capable, but like they don't have all these, all these skills, right?
8:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
8:55
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I think there's a difference between having a therapist that of course you feel safe with and you trust, but then it's like, when does the talk therapy become something that we're just kind of circling and circling and circling for years on end?
9:09
SPEAKER_05: And so I feel like when you find someone that specializes in these modalities like EMDR and IFS, when people ask me what I do, I'm like, I'm the shit that you do when you're ready to come to the table.
9:21
SPEAKER_05: Like when we're ready to stop circling the dream and when we're ready to start actually doing the work, like I'm the hard work, but I'm the results.
9:30
SPEAKER_05: You know what I mean?
9:30
SPEAKER_05: Like this team is the results.
9:32
SPEAKER_05: Like so it's like, but I understand and I recognize that not everyone, it look, it took me years to come to the table with EMDR.
9:40
SPEAKER_05: Like it took me 20 years to come to the table on EMDR of therapists recommending it to me and me saying, No, no, no, no, no.
9:47
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I went kicking and screaming.
9:49
SPEAKER_05: But EMDR and IFS and homeopathy were the only thing that literally got me past my trauma, my trust issues, like safety, like all of that.
9:58
SPEAKER_05: It was the only thing that that helped.
10:00
SPEAKER_05: And I'd worked with multiple, multiple therapists who were all wonderful, amazing therapists, but those were the only modalities that really helped me push the envelope.
10:08
SPEAKER_02: I think there's also the real-time issue, right?
10:10
SPEAKER_02: So, like one of the women I've spoken with recently who said yes.
10:14
SPEAKER_02: So exciting.
10:15
SPEAKER_02: Uh, she's done some decent EMDR therapy.
10:18
SPEAKER_02: And um, she mentioned brain spotting to her therapist.
10:21
SPEAKER_02: And her brain, her therapist went and got brain spotting trained.
10:23
SPEAKER_02: Like, what a great therapist! Like, that's a keeper right there, right?
10:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:29
SPEAKER_02: But there's the piece about integration in real time with community that you can't, like, no one-on-one therapist can solve for.
10:38
SPEAKER_02: Because when you're moving through life and it's 8 p.m.
10:42
SPEAKER_02: on a Friday or whatever, that the stuff comes up, and then you have to deal with it in actual relationship in real time.
10:49
SPEAKER_02: Use the tool, change the brain map in real time, and integrate all of the tools at once inside of an actual relationship with people.
10:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's so it's it's complicated.
11:02
SPEAKER_04: I really love that piece about our community, is because our our ladies like they're so in tune with each other and with tools and modalities.
11:15
SPEAKER_04: Like when one of them is struggling, they just say, like, have you done XYZ, whatever is needed in that moment, right?
11:26
SPEAKER_04: And it's just I I really think that there's something so magical about being seen by someone who's in it with you, and lovingly suggests um tools because when you're in it, it's very hard to see.
11:44
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
11:45
SPEAKER_04: Right.
11:45
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
11:46
SPEAKER_04: And so it's very hard to see when you're in the mud, right?
11:49
SPEAKER_04: And murk.
11:50
SPEAKER_04: But when you have someone that you love and trust who's in it with you, who's been doing it with you, suggests something, it's a lot easier to land.
12:02
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
12:02
SPEAKER_04: To absorb.
12:04
SPEAKER_05: And I think I love seeing the discernment in the group too, among when women just need to be seen and held.
12:10
SPEAKER_05: Like our group is learning that so beautifully versus I need advice or an opinion or I need a tool.
12:15
SPEAKER_05: It's like, oh, that's a good they're getting so good at asking for what they need, whether it's just to simply be seen and share, or whether they are coming to the group for something.
12:24
SPEAKER_05: I love the discernment because I feel like a lot of them are building self-trust.
12:29
SPEAKER_05: And so they just kind of need a sounding board or a landing place.
12:32
SPEAKER_05: And if that is 10 o'clock at night, someone's responding.
12:35
SPEAKER_05: Like they have that access to each other, which is beautiful.
12:39
SPEAKER_05: Like none of these women are navigating this alone ever.
12:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:43
SPEAKER_02: And I think we've gotten questions like, how do I know post-program if I need more EMDR or I need more IFS?
12:52
SPEAKER_02: You know, these are questions that they're very real questions.
12:57
SPEAKER_02: Like, how do I know which tool I need for which problem?
13:01
SPEAKER_02: And I think most women who are in a post-divorce situation where you don't have a lot of time resource, you don't have a lot of energy resource, you maybe don't have a lot of financial resource.
13:12
SPEAKER_02: It's like, gosh, this can feel really overwhelming to have to, you know, this was a meme I saw circulating, I think even a couple of years ago.
13:19
SPEAKER_02: But like, let me get this straight.
13:20
SPEAKER_02: Now I've got to work with my inner child, I've got to get my gut health sorted, I've got to prioritize my sleep and my hydration, and I have to go to work and parent the children.
13:28
SPEAKER_02: Right.
13:28
SPEAKER_04: Right, right, right.
13:29
SPEAKER_02: It's overwhelming.
13:30
SPEAKER_02: But the reality is, it's like, yeah, an integrative approach with multiple modalities is probably what most women who have been operating on fumes for decades need.
14:33
SPEAKER_04: But we also have support for burnout.
14:35
SPEAKER_04: So we do.
14:36
SPEAKER_02: I know.
14:36
SPEAKER_02: That's like my favorite thing to give the women when they join, right?
14:39
SPEAKER_02: Is our blend for burnout so that they immediately feel more resourced.
14:43
SPEAKER_02: We have all the magical things over here.
14:45
SPEAKER_02: All the magical things.
14:47
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so is the person helping me skilled enough for where I'm going?
14:50
SPEAKER_02: And I guess it depends on where you're going, right?
14:52
SPEAKER_02: But if you have a vision for your life or you have a dream or you have a fantasy about a life that you want that involves a healthy attachment style, or um involves the eradication of burnout, or it involves, you know, being chosen and cherished by someone until you're adorably old together.
15:08
SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, you can't get there by using the things that you've got.
15:12
SPEAKER_02: And yes, different clinicians have different skill sets and levels of experience.
15:18
SPEAKER_02: And that's a very real thing.
15:19
SPEAKER_02: And um, so gut check time, right?
15:22
SPEAKER_02: Is the are your healers skilled enough?
15:25
SPEAKER_02: Can the practitioner tolerate the complexity of the story?
15:28
SPEAKER_02: Right.
15:29
SPEAKER_02: Like, I think a lot of times this is something that happens in healer world, right?
15:33
SPEAKER_02: Is when we practice a particular approach, like the HTMA analysis people, right?
15:38
SPEAKER_02: The people who take hair samples and they do a mineral analysis, they're like, everything boils down to HTMA and you just gotta do the protocol harder, right?
15:46
SPEAKER_02: It's like understanding when to push, when to draw back, when to support, when to intervene, when to use this tool, when to use that tool to have many, many, many, many, many tools and different experts.
15:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because very often in the recovery community, I think in the wellness industry has become an industry, right?
16:04
SPEAKER_05: And it's like, nope, I'm a hammer and everything's a nail and I see it through this one lens, which but I think over here we have the beauty of having a team that sees it through multiple lenses because we're all getting different types of um interaction with all the women.
16:19
SPEAKER_05: And so to have an actual team over here that literally co-cares you every step of the way and is looking at it from different experience levels and lenses and modalities, my God, like it's it's a game changer.
16:31
SPEAKER_02: I mean, can you imagine post-divorce being able to like take six months off and just go to treatment and just like but like who like I couldn't have done that?
16:40
SPEAKER_02: I couldn't have done that.
16:41
SPEAKER_02: No way.
16:42
SPEAKER_02: No.
16:42
SPEAKER_02: Anyways, we bring it to you.
16:43
SPEAKER_02: We bring it to you.
16:44
SPEAKER_02: All right.
16:45
SPEAKER_02: The next one, number seven, what is my trajectory?
16:49
SPEAKER_02: So, not am I healed yet?
16:53
SPEAKER_02: But I want you to ask, what direction am I moving?
16:56
SPEAKER_02: So a lot of times women are asking themselves, like, how much longer is this gonna take?
17:01
SPEAKER_02: A lot of times women put like very harsh time boundaries on themselves.
17:05
SPEAKER_02: Like, by 2027, I expect XYZ, right?
17:08
SPEAKER_02: It's a fascinating thing that we do.
17:10
SPEAKER_02: We like need it to be done by a certain time.
17:12
SPEAKER_02: And then when we get to that time and it's not all done, we're like disappointed in ourselves, right?
17:17
SPEAKER_02: But sometimes we have a hard time zooming out and looking at, okay, am I staying stuck?
17:23
SPEAKER_02: Am I stagnant?
17:24
SPEAKER_02: Or is my trajectory overall going in a direction?
17:28
SPEAKER_02: So let's check in about that.
17:30
SPEAKER_02: Over the last 60 to 90 days, I want you to think about that.
17:33
SPEAKER_02: So it's two to three months, right?
17:34
SPEAKER_02: We are in the month of well, when this airs will be just in the beginning of September, right?
17:40
SPEAKER_02: So June, July, August.
17:44
SPEAKER_02: Are you recovering from triggers faster?
17:47
SPEAKER_02: Yay or nay.
17:49
SPEAKER_02: Does rumination occupy less of your day?
17:53
SPEAKER_02: Yay or nay.
17:55
SPEAKER_02: Is your sleep or physical well-being improving?
17:59
SPEAKER_02: Yay or nay?
18:02
SPEAKER_02: Do you trust yourself more than you did back in June?
18:06
SPEAKER_02: Are you less compelled to get answers from him?
18:09
SPEAKER_02: Closure, reassurance, or validation from your ex since June.
18:15
SPEAKER_02: Are your boundaries becoming easier to hold?
18:20
SPEAKER_02: Can you feel your difficult feelings without needing to numb them or escape them or being completely consumed by them to where you like forget the whole plot and you just all of a sudden become anger or fear or sadness or whatever?
18:35
SPEAKER_02: Since June, are you reconnecting with pleasure, curiosity, work, friendship, sexuality, creativity, or future plans?
18:44
SPEAKER_01: Do you recognize yourself more?
18:48
SPEAKER_02: Does the same trigger not produce the same exact reaction every single time?
18:54
SPEAKER_02: Like, are you noticing that you're able to have a broader range of responses to similar triggers?
19:00
SPEAKER_02: Is your life gradually becoming larger than your divorce?
19:05
SPEAKER_02: So this is a concrete checklist on your trajectory.
19:08
SPEAKER_02: You're just looking for movement.
19:10
SPEAKER_02: If you're working incredibly hard, and I know this is happening for women because I was on the phone with one of them, not on the phone, on Zoom with one of them this weekend.
19:18
SPEAKER_02: If you're working incredibly hard, but your trajectory has remained, you know, largely flat, um, that does not mean you're resistant, right?
19:27
SPEAKER_02: It means the treatment plan isn't appropriately resourced for the scope of what you're carrying.
19:32
SPEAKER_02: Because I think many women work really hard on healing.
19:37
SPEAKER_02: And then they hit plateaus and they want to doubt themselves or doubt the process.
19:42
SPEAKER_02: But it really is often just about if you're having a specific issue, you often need a specific resource or tool.
19:50
SPEAKER_05: I think that's where a lot of women get stuck too, because they associate triggers with lack of progress or lack of healing.
19:57
SPEAKER_01: So good.
19:58
SPEAKER_05: Right.
19:58
SPEAKER_05: And so when they choose uh when they make an old choice, when they text them back, when they're reaching, reaching something that happens that sets them back in their mind.
20:09
SPEAKER_05: There's nobody there to encourage them that that's normal.
20:12
SPEAKER_05: Um, we're gonna try this, we're gonna shift over here.
20:15
SPEAKER_05: Like we're kind of the guardrails in a sense in this program, right?
20:19
SPEAKER_05: Because it's like we just kind of like you're gonna stay on the road.
20:22
SPEAKER_05: It doesn't matter if you bump into the guardrails, you're not gonna go off the cliff, right?
20:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
20:26
SPEAKER_05: But it's like when you're stuck, it's like we're the ones that are saying, no, actually, you're not.
20:32
SPEAKER_05: It's okay that this happened.
20:33
SPEAKER_05: This is information, information only.
20:35
SPEAKER_05: Let's get curious about it.
20:36
SPEAKER_05: And here we're gonna move over in this direction, right?
20:39
SPEAKER_05: But when you stay alone in that, it is so easy to cycle.
20:42
SPEAKER_05: Like I thought that I was stuck in cycles for years.
20:44
SPEAKER_05: I just felt so alone and like, fuck, like, why can't I get this right?
20:49
SPEAKER_05: And every time I would fuck up and text him back or reach out or whatever, or do the thing, or take the drink, or call the guy, or get on Tinder, I'm like, what the fuck?
20:58
SPEAKER_05: You know, and it's like, and then I go back to square one instead of seeing how far I've come.
21:02
SPEAKER_05: So it's like, we're your constant reminders and guardrails that no, honey, you're moving down the road.
21:07
SPEAKER_05: It's okay, you know?
21:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
21:11
SPEAKER_02: And how many women get stuck in that cycle?
21:15
SPEAKER_02: Even like you, Tiff, right?
21:16
SPEAKER_02: And like, I'm not ready for EMDR, I'm not ready for EMDR, I'm not ready, you know?
21:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
21:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:21
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:22
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it's rarely, I mean, I don't want to say rarely, right?
21:26
SPEAKER_02: But often it's not an issue of trying hard enough.
21:28
SPEAKER_02: It's often an issue of you don't have the right tool for the job.
21:31
SPEAKER_02: And for some reason, it's very clear.
21:34
SPEAKER_02: Like, I I think I even mentioned this in last week's episode, but you know, that reel that's been going around.
21:39
SPEAKER_02: It's like when you have a car problem, you know you need to take your car to the car specialist.
21:44
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes you might need a transmission expert, or uh, anyways, and when you have a dental issue, you know you need to go to the dentist.
21:51
SPEAKER_02: Uh, but it's like when we have interpersonal issues or mental wellness, mental health issues, right?
21:57
SPEAKER_02: We we just we want to handle it on our own.
21:59
SPEAKER_02: It's it's like, yeah, so hard.
22:02
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
22:03
SPEAKER_02: Number six, we've already talked about this a bit, right?
22:06
SPEAKER_02: But it's is the person helping me skilled enough for where I'm going?
22:10
SPEAKER_02: And we've touched on this.
22:12
SPEAKER_02: This is different than do I have the right tools?
22:15
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, because it's both and, right?
22:22
SPEAKER_02: But is the person skilled enough?
22:24
SPEAKER_02: So do they have the specific experience with what I'm dealing with?
22:28
SPEAKER_02: I've heard many women at this point tell me that they have amazing therapists who don't have specific experience with divorce.
22:35
SPEAKER_02: Um, do they understand trauma and the nervous system capacity rather than pushing catharsis for catharsis' sake?
22:41
SPEAKER_02: Um can they recognize when I need stabilization instead of deeper processing?
22:48
SPEAKER_02: Can they tell the difference?
22:50
SPEAKER_02: Between insight and change.
22:51
SPEAKER_02: And I think this is something that the therapy community is really um being pulled up on right now, right?
23:01
SPEAKER_02: Like, because when a client comes in and they can give me all of this insight, it's like, wow, I'm so impressed with your insight.
23:06
SPEAKER_02: But then what is the capacity of that therapist to help that client facilitate real change in their day-to-day life?
23:13
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's where therapy has historically fallen short.
23:16
SPEAKER_02: Does your therapist or your healer have more than one tool available when the current approach isn't moving something?
23:21
SPEAKER_02: And I've heard some great stories this week from therapists who have added to their toolkit, which is just amazing.
23:29
SPEAKER_02: Can your healer recognize when something is outside of their scope and refer you properly?
23:35
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's something that doesn't happen enough in the therapeutic community.
23:39
SPEAKER_02: Like really recognizing when, no, my client needs more because they're gonna stay stuck if we keep throwing the same stuff at them.
23:48
SPEAKER_02: And I want to make a referral.
23:51
SPEAKER_02: Um do I feel increasingly capable and connected to myself rather than increasingly dependent on them?
24:02
SPEAKER_04: I feel like I feel like I feel like that was a big one.
24:06
SPEAKER_02: Our job as therapists is to like launch, launch our clients from the nest to graduate them.
24:13
SPEAKER_02: And I think too often we get confused about does this clinician have the skill to get me to the next level, next level, next level?
24:25
SPEAKER_02: If not, I need to go find that person, right?
24:27
SPEAKER_02: And we just fall back into comfortably numb, even in our clinical settings, right?
24:32
SPEAKER_02: Like, well, I guess this is just how it is, or it's too hard to start over with someone new.
24:38
SPEAKER_02: Or yeah, I really like this person.
24:42
SPEAKER_05: They've become your new attachment.
24:44
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, codependent on your therapist.
24:46
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
24:47
SPEAKER_02: Yes, that really, really is the deal.
24:50
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
24:50
SPEAKER_02: Here's the last thing in the checklist.
24:54
SPEAKER_02: What is it, and this is maybe the one that's like the biggest gut punch, and like if you don't stay to the end, you skip to the homework.
25:04
SPEAKER_02: What is it costing me to stay under-resourced?
25:07
SPEAKER_02: So and I don't know if what you ladies think about how often we talk about this around here, but under-resourcing looks like survival.
25:17
SPEAKER_01: Right?
25:17
SPEAKER_01: It looks like survival.
25:20
SPEAKER_01: Is insufficient support costing you sleep, physical health and energy, presence with your children, work capacity or income?
25:36
SPEAKER_02: And that's a hot one right there.
25:38
SPEAKER_02: Like, can you even connect the dots between your under-resourced way of living is actually affecting your income?
25:44
SPEAKER_02: Can like connect those dots, right?
25:47
SPEAKER_02: Is insufficient support costing you friendships or competence?
25:52
SPEAKER_02: Or like friendships, I might say, or even the ability to go play or have fun, right?
25:56
SPEAKER_02: Or get to or build new friendships or get to know people or go try new things.
26:00
SPEAKER_02: Is it costing you confidence?
26:03
SPEAKER_02: Is it costing you decision-making ability?
26:08
SPEAKER_02: Is it costing you years spent ruminating about someone who's no longer building a life with you?
26:13
SPEAKER_02: I think that's the one that most women get taken out by, right?
26:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
26:17
SPEAKER_02: Is it costing you repeating familiar relationship dynamics?
26:22
SPEAKER_02: And I wish I could help people understand that when you attract someone from a low vibe place, it may look different on paper, but like the patterns will be the same.
26:34
SPEAKER_02: Choosing another partner from the same unresolved attachment wound.
26:38
SPEAKER_02: Is it causing you, is being under resourced causing you to stay emotionally attached to your ex long after the relationship ended?
26:44
SPEAKER_02: Is it causing you to make major decisions to relieve immediate discomfort versus versus getting you to your big picture goals?
26:52
SPEAKER_02: Because so often when we're under-resourced, right, we don't have the capacity to choose that harder thing that's gonna move us forward further.
27:01
SPEAKER_02: We just need we're just so exhausted, we're just in so much pain, we just need relief in that moment.
27:06
SPEAKER_02: And so we keep relapsing into the thing that keeps us in the same pattern versus really moving us downfield.
27:14
SPEAKER_02: Is insufficient support causing you to become accustomed to a diminished version of your life?
27:24
SPEAKER_02: And is it causing you losing time you cannot get back?
27:30
SPEAKER_02: So this section is like really acknowledging that there is a cost to getting help and there's a cost to remaining insufficiently supported.
27:39
SPEAKER_02: Ladies, what are your body saying about this list and the cost of staying stuck or being under-resourced?
27:47
SPEAKER_05: I think it affects a lot.
27:49
SPEAKER_05: You know, like I talked about, I mean, I I stayed in that place for 10 years and I went through periods of dissociation, numbing, survival mode, burnout, like all of it.
28:02
SPEAKER_05: Like I had literally created a life around this alter ego state that I was creating for myself because that's the only way I could get through the day.
28:10
SPEAKER_05: I was a badass corporate woman.
28:11
SPEAKER_05: I came home, I was a single mom.
28:12
SPEAKER_05: We traveled everywhere, I paid all the bills, I bought a house.
28:15
SPEAKER_05: Like we had a, you know, a two-income lifestyle.
28:18
SPEAKER_05: Okay.
28:19
SPEAKER_05: And I think for me, I look back on that time and I'm like, shit, like I did not have the correct support.
28:29
SPEAKER_05: Like I literally just sailed along.
28:34
SPEAKER_05: But it wasn't, it wasn't a life.
28:36
SPEAKER_05: Like it was because I had a lot of great times with my daughter.
28:39
SPEAKER_05: But as far as true connection, I didn't let anybody in.
28:42
SPEAKER_05: Nobody knew me.
28:43
SPEAKER_05: Like Don says this all the time.
28:45
SPEAKER_05: I'm a double Gemini with a Scorpio moon.
28:47
SPEAKER_05: I have secrets.
28:48
SPEAKER_05: Your girl has secrets.
28:50
SPEAKER_05: And I don't let a lot of people in.
28:51
SPEAKER_05: And I think the one thing that I realized about this weekend that I told Don coming back from the hiking retreat is that there were times in my life where like I was the party girl in college, I was the party girl after my divorce.
29:03
SPEAKER_05: And then like I just got quiet and I started to retreat and isolate.
29:08
SPEAKER_05: And so it's like moving to the retreat this weekend, what I've realized is that when I am surrounded by people who I feel emotionally safe to connect with, I'm a fucking box star.
29:19
SPEAKER_05: I'm the fun girl.
29:20
SPEAKER_05: You know what I mean?
29:21
SPEAKER_05: Like I crave those deep conversations and that connection and like talking about the weather and that surface level bullshit, like I can't do that anymore.
29:28
SPEAKER_05: It depletes my energy.
29:29
SPEAKER_05: And that's the space I sat in for 10 years because I was afraid to let anyone too close.
29:34
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
29:35
SPEAKER_05: I was like the fucking wizard of Oz.
29:37
SPEAKER_05: Don't look behind the curtain because this is all a facade and I don't know when I'm gonna break.
29:42
SPEAKER_05: But it's like when you operate like that where you're not letting anybody close, it's like you're telling people you're okay.
29:48
SPEAKER_05: You might let some people in, but not everybody.
29:50
SPEAKER_05: Like, uh, yeah.
29:52
SPEAKER_02: You know what I'm thinking about here is about the stories we tell ourselves.
30:00
SPEAKER_02: I know Joy loves that phrase.
30:01
SPEAKER_01: Um I do.
30:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a Brene Brown quote, right?
30:04
SPEAKER_02: The stories we tell ourselves.
30:06
SPEAKER_02: So I often said, no one ever taught me, no one ever provided me the opportunity to, no one ever, I just didn't have those luxuries, right?
30:17
SPEAKER_02: Like I would say these things that were true, technically accurate.
30:23
SPEAKER_02: But and also I worked really hard to make sure my daughter did have those opportunities and did get provided with solutions and did get provided with resources.
30:34
SPEAKER_02: And you know what?
30:36
SPEAKER_02: When given the opportunity to utilize those tools, she didn't want to use them either because the process of becoming accountable for your own emotional world is uncomfortable.
30:50
SPEAKER_02: We want people to fix it for us, right?
30:52
SPEAKER_02: We want, we want Prince Charming to come and scoop us up on his horse and ride us off into the sunset.
31:00
SPEAKER_02: And so it was really humbling when I gave my daughter all the resources to get herself out of emotional pain.
31:08
SPEAKER_02: And I don't mean like I wasn't soothing her or doing proper mom things.
31:11
SPEAKER_02: That's not what I mean.
31:12
SPEAKER_02: But you know, there's a point where if you soothe someone and they still want to stay in self-pity.
31:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was so humbling to give my daughter all the resources and just still see that human nature of I don't want to if I don't have to.
31:27
SPEAKER_02: I don't want to if I don't have to.
31:29
SPEAKER_02: And so I think that, you know, while we're having this conversation about like what is it costing me to be under-resourced, it's like, well, I don't know.
31:40
SPEAKER_02: Because most humans don't want to if they don't have to.
31:44
SPEAKER_02: And so they don't, I just think it's human nature to not choose it until we feel like we're out of choices.
31:51
SPEAKER_05: I would agree.
31:52
SPEAKER_05: I mean, I was between a rock and a hard place when I decided to come to the table with EMDR.
31:57
SPEAKER_05: Like there was just something about like I had chronic anxiety, I was sick all the time, I wasn't sleeping well.
32:03
SPEAKER_05: I'd wake up with that pit in my stomach.
32:05
SPEAKER_05: There was something that was no longer sustainable.
32:07
SPEAKER_01: The whole quality of life was Oh my God.
32:09
SPEAKER_05: Like I couldn't numb out anymore.
32:11
SPEAKER_05: That was the problem.
32:12
SPEAKER_05: Like all of my old tricks weren't working.
32:15
SPEAKER_05: You know, the alcohol wasn't working, Tinder wasn't working.
32:17
SPEAKER_05: Like eventually, like an addiction, you will need more and more and more to stay dissociated.
32:22
SPEAKER_05: And so when you reach that point where you can't numb anymore, that's kind of the point where everything feels and it's like so overwhelming that you have no other choice but to come to the table.
32:32
SPEAKER_02: And for me, it was my physical health, right?
32:35
SPEAKER_02: Like cluster headaches, uh, like we're gonna literally take me out.
32:39
SPEAKER_02: And um, or like actually getting divorced, even was very much like, oh gosh, I was a very good chaos.
32:47
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, right.
32:48
SPEAKER_02: Um and so it was like an intersection of, you know, I was physically unwell in addition to mentally and emotionally unwell.
32:58
SPEAKER_02: And then like my marriage fell apart.
32:59
SPEAKER_02: And so it put poked holes in my delusion that I could handle it on my own.
33:05
SPEAKER_02: Because clearly I hadn't handled it on my own.
33:07
SPEAKER_02: Um yeah.
33:10
SPEAKER_02: So I definitely, I definitely had to be brought to my knees before I surrendered.
33:16
SPEAKER_02: And I often wish that women didn't wait that long, but I do have an immense amount of compassion and understanding that that is human nature.
33:26
SPEAKER_05: And I understand, and I think that that's very much how we practice in this program and also the practice.
33:32
SPEAKER_05: And I tell people when I do a call, a consult call, you won't hear from me again.
33:37
SPEAKER_05: Like if you I don't chase, do you know what I mean?
33:40
SPEAKER_05: And we don't chase.
33:41
SPEAKER_05: It's like I want people that are ready to come to the table and I have immense love for you if you're not ready.
33:46
SPEAKER_05: Like that's okay.
33:47
SPEAKER_05: Yes, it's okay.
33:49
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, we love you anyway.
33:51
SPEAKER_05: And we're still gonna be here when you yeah, absolutely.
33:55
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
33:57
SPEAKER_02: So the final check, right?
34:00
SPEAKER_02: If we zoom all the way out, and if you went through the workshop, the checklist, it's like, oh, my current wound is approximately a one through ten pick a number.
34:12
SPEAKER_02: And my current support is approximately a one through ten pick a number.
34:17
SPEAKER_02: Right.
34:18
SPEAKER_02: And so if you looked at the checklist and you looked at all the functions, then you have to sort of reconcile like, is the wound and the support at least within a standard deviation from each other, right?
34:33
SPEAKER_02: Um because there are so many things that are wonderful, right?
34:37
SPEAKER_02: Listening to this podcast is wonderful.
34:38
SPEAKER_02: You know, your therapist is wonderful, your journaling is wonderful, your, you know, all the things.
34:44
SPEAKER_02: They're all wonderful things.
34:46
SPEAKER_02: But if you have three gunshot wounds, we need to get you to the hospital because the Welly band-aids, as cute as they are, are not going to save your life.
34:53
SPEAKER_02: We're not gonna do it.
34:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that's that's the thing, right?
34:57
SPEAKER_02: Why do we why do we wait so long?
35:01
SPEAKER_02: Why are we not, why do we not recognize when it's like, no, I'm actually on mental health life support?
35:10
SPEAKER_02: Is it because we don't feel worth it?
35:12
SPEAKER_02: Is it because the stigma?
35:14
SPEAKER_02: Is it because it's too overwhelming?
35:15
SPEAKER_02: Is it because we don't perceive it as life-threatening?
35:19
SPEAKER_02: I perceived it as life-threatening because I had so many life-threatening illnesses.
35:24
SPEAKER_02: So I literally, like my body was giving me no outs.
35:27
SPEAKER_02: Like it was like, oh no.
35:29
SPEAKER_02: This is life-threatening, lady.
35:31
SPEAKER_05: I think for me it was because as a single mom, I was responsible for my daughter.
35:35
SPEAKER_05: And so the fear was, what if I completely come unhinged?
35:40
SPEAKER_05: Do you know what I mean?
35:41
SPEAKER_05: Like, what if I step into this and completely come unhinged and then I can't come back and then I can't go back into my ego state?
35:47
SPEAKER_05: I can't go back to where it's comfortable.
35:48
SPEAKER_05: And at least I'm surviving and making money.
35:51
SPEAKER_02: But like I didn't know what it would look like on the other side of well, and I think that if you come from a family system where you were under-supported, you can't conceive of what it feels like to have a fuck ton of support.
36:05
SPEAKER_05: Like even when we well, like think about the retreat when we like tucked the ladies in at night.
36:10
SPEAKER_05: It was the most simple thing, but like it was so impactful.
36:13
SPEAKER_05: And they were like, this is fucking amazing.
36:15
SPEAKER_05: Yes.
36:16
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
36:17
SPEAKER_04: I think the thing that I hear commonly is breaking generational curses.
36:22
SPEAKER_04: You know, like it was very that's that's where I kind of landed.
36:28
SPEAKER_04: Is I didn't connect the dots of my physical health to my emotional health.
36:35
SPEAKER_04: But like I didn't want my children, my girls, to have this be the their reality when they grew up.
36:45
SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
36:47
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
36:48
SPEAKER_04: Doing things differently for sure.
36:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
36:50
SPEAKER_02: I relate to that.
36:51
SPEAKER_02: That like um once I became a mom, that I was willing to do way more for her than I was for me.
36:57
SPEAKER_02: But again, I think women miss the boat that if you have children and you want to break cycles, like your level, your attachment style, your capacity to have a flexible nervous system that recovers, um, your ability to not be wired but tired, um, like all of that directly correlates to not only your relationship health with your children, but like predictive around how they're gonna respond to their own struggles in life.
37:29
SPEAKER_02: Like your ability to ask for help is going to correlate to their ability to ask for help.
37:33
SPEAKER_02: Like we're constantly modeling for them.
37:36
SPEAKER_02: Constantly.
37:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
37:40
SPEAKER_02: What else do y'all want to add about is your is your, you know, current intervention big enough to tackle your current wounding?
37:52
SPEAKER_05: I would say that it's probably not.
37:56
SPEAKER_05: You know, like if you're not with a practitioner that practices multiple modalities, if you are not having a lot of like grounding regulations and tools, if you feel like you're stuck, then clearly it's not, it's not even the quality.
38:12
SPEAKER_05: Like you can have a perfectly good therapist, but again, it's like it's one person and it's one hour of support a week.
38:18
SPEAKER_05: You can't text a therapist at nine o'clock at night.
38:20
SPEAKER_05: You can't, you know, you can't do those things.
38:22
SPEAKER_05: And so I think that immersing yourself in community with other people that get it and practitioners that hold multiple modalities and ways to help you move through it.
38:33
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it really is about the community.
38:35
SPEAKER_05: And that's what makes this program so impactful is the level that it goes.
38:42
SPEAKER_05: And it's like wide, you know what I mean?
38:44
SPEAKER_05: It's like wide and deep.
38:45
SPEAKER_05: Like our shit is wide and deep over here, ladies.
38:47
SPEAKER_05: Like we just yes, you know?
38:50
SPEAKER_05: And that's the thing.
38:52
SPEAKER_05: Like, we are literally, we're here to walk with you.
38:56
SPEAKER_05: And nothing's too dark, nothing's too deep.
38:59
SPEAKER_05: Like when women say the big scary shit out loud to me, I love it.
39:01
SPEAKER_05: I feed off of that shit because I'm like, I love that they feel safe enough to do that.
39:07
SPEAKER_05: And they just feel so supported.
39:09
SPEAKER_05: And like I said, I look at these women that we're working with, and I want to reiterate this too.
39:13
SPEAKER_05: If you don't feel like your emotional stress has a toll on your physical body, these women look different physically to me than when they first started.
39:23
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
39:24
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it automatically accidentally helps unwind, you know, years of burnout.
39:31
SPEAKER_02: Um, it it initiates autoimmune recovery.
39:34
SPEAKER_02: It I mean, it's all the things, right?
39:36
SPEAKER_02: Digestion, like all the things.
39:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
39:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
39:40
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
39:41
SPEAKER_02: It's profound.
39:43
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
39:44
SPEAKER_02: All right, darlings.
39:45
SPEAKER_02: If this has caused you to understand that there is an imbalance between beh between, between, betwixt, if there is an imbalance amongst, I don't know, you're with the amount of woundedness that you feel like you're carrying.
40:02
SPEAKER_02: If your burdens feel heavier than your solutions, right?
40:05
SPEAKER_02: Scroll down to the show notes, fill out the chat form.
40:08
SPEAKER_02: I will reach out to you and we will have a chat, and it will be lovely.
40:12
SPEAKER_02: And everything is figure outable.
40:14
SPEAKER_02: Everything is figure out.
40:17
SPEAKER_02: And that is the energy from which we bring you this podcast.
40:21
SPEAKER_02: We love you so much.
40:23
SPEAKER_02: Peace.