Latest / Finding God at Work / 17: Trauma

Transcript

17: Trauma · Finding God at Work

• 0:05
  (Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi, I'm Chris.
• 0:07
  This is Finding God at Work.
• 0:14
  Just a reminder that Finding God at Work
• 0:16
  isn't just a podcast, it's also an online
• 0:18
  course.
• 0:19
  Check it out at FindingGodAtWork.org.
• 0:27
  Our current series is wholehearted, becoming healthier Christians
• 0:32
  at work.
• 0:33
  And the structure of this series, in our
• 0:36
  first episode, I used the example of a
• 0:38
  Venn diagram.
• 0:39
  On the one side of the Venn diagram,
• 0:41
  we have the teaching of Scripture, specifically the
• 0:43
  teaching of Jesus, his theological anthropology, and the
• 0:47
  way that the ideas of who the human
• 0:49
  person is are built out through the rest
• 0:50
  of Scripture as well, our minds, our hearts,
• 0:53
  our bodies, our souls, how all of that
• 0:55
  goes together.
• 0:57
  And then on the other side of the
• 0:58
  Venn diagram, we have these various mental health
• 1:00
  challenges that we're facing in the workplace.
• 1:02
  And that's the part of the series that
• 1:04
  we've been working through now, talking about depression,
• 1:06
  anxiety, addiction and recovery, neurodiversity, and now trauma.
• 1:12
  And I want to just kind of pause
• 1:14
  here before digging into trauma to kind of
• 1:17
  put an asterisk next to this entire episode
• 1:19
  and this entire section of the Venn diagram.
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  One of the challenges of doing this kind
• 1:24
  of series where we've got one side that's
• 1:26
  more rooted in the teaching of Scripture and
• 1:28
  then another side that's trying to draw on
• 1:30
  social science is I veer a little bit
• 1:33
  out of my area of expertise.
• 1:35
  So I have a seminary degree.
• 1:37
  I'm definitely not a leading Bible scholar or
• 1:39
  anything, but I at least have been trained
• 1:41
  and formed to explicate the Scriptures and try
• 1:44
  and apply them to life.
• 1:46
  But when that applying to life is applying
• 1:48
  to issues of mental health, I do not
• 1:49
  have a psychology degree.
• 1:51
  I'm not a trained therapist or a psychologist.
• 1:54
  And so that's something that gives me pause.
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  At the same time, these are the issues
• 1:59
  that we work out when we think about
• 2:01
  our bodies and our minds and our hearts.
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  It's the mental health issues that we're facing
• 2:05
  that we need a guidance for.
• 2:06
  And so I think it's important to speak
• 2:08
  into these issues.
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  So my understanding of how I'm speaking into
• 2:12
  these things and particularly a really sensitive topic
• 2:15
  like trauma is that I'm a journalist rather
• 2:18
  than a scholar.
• 2:20
  So this is a framework I got from
• 2:22
  Christian thinker Andy Crouch.
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  He was giving a talk once and he
• 2:26
  said, scholars take something simple and make it
• 2:30
  complicated.
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  Journalists take something complicated and make it simple.
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  And as soon as he said those words,
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  I was like, I'm a journalist.
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  That's what I do.
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  I take complicated things.
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  I read what other people who actually know
• 2:42
  what they're talking about have written.
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  And then I try and make it simple
• 2:45
  and understandable and communicate it to other human
• 2:47
  beings.
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  And that's kind of my role as a
• 2:49
  teacher.
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  And in many ways, that's how I've understood
• 2:51
  my ministry and my vocation is, hey, I
• 2:53
  read a lot.
• 2:54
  I listen to a lot of things.
• 2:55
  I try and learn from the best that
• 2:56
  are out there that are way smarter than
• 2:58
  me.
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  And then I just try and communicate it
• 2:59
  in a really accessible way to other people.
• 3:02
  So that's especially true as we talk about
• 3:04
  trauma.
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  And if anything that I say in this
• 3:06
  episode really seems to resonate with your own
• 3:09
  experience, if you're thinking of a particular memory
• 3:12
  you have that may be painful or you're
• 3:15
  not even sure what it is, but it
• 3:16
  just seems like the things we're talking about
• 3:18
  related to trauma really hit home for you.
• 3:20
  I would really encourage you to talk to
• 3:22
  someone where this is their area of expertise.
• 3:26
  So a therapist, a psychologist, a counselor, even
• 3:29
  just a pastor who's been well trained for
• 3:31
  that sort of pastoral counseling.
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  Go talk with somebody who can help you
• 3:36
  put the puzzle pieces of your life and
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  experience together a little bit.
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  It's going to be a lot richer for
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  you in terms of the healing you can
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  experience than what you'll get out of a
• 3:45
  podcast episode.
• 3:47
  And just a heads up, in case this
• 3:48
  is helpful for you, because we're talking about
• 3:51
  trauma, we're going to talk about a few
• 3:52
  different traumatic things in this episode, including experiences
• 3:56
  of violence, childhood abuse, bullying.
• 3:59
  So just a heads up that that's going
• 4:01
  to be some of the ground we're going
• 4:02
  through during this episode.
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  OK, so with that kind of asterisk qualification,
• 4:07
  I do want to dig into trauma.
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  Now, trauma is kind of a funny word
• 4:11
  in our current cultural moment.
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  There was this great piece in the New
• 4:15
  Yorker back in 2021 by a writer named
• 4:17
  Katie Waldman, sort of observing the way that
• 4:19
  different therapeutic or psychological or mental health terms
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  have become part of our everyday parlance.
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  And she's just a very funny writer, too.
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  So this is these are her words from
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  that piece.
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  Around every corner, trauma, like the unwanted prize
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  at the bottom of a cereal box, the
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  trauma of puberty, of difference, of academia, of
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  women's clothing.
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  And then she goes on and talks about
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  how, hey, you know, if you use the
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  word trauma to describe every single aspect of
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  human experience, that might be slightly difficult.
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  It kind of waters down its meaning.
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  It becomes less effective.
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  So one of the questions that's kind of
• 4:58
  in our cultural milieu right now is, is
• 5:00
  what counts as trauma?
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  So I want to come back to that
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  and kind of use that as our centerpiece
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  in this episode is what counts as trauma
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  and how can we answer that question in
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  a way that leads us into deeper healing?
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  Okay.
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  But before we can talk about what counts
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  as trauma, we need to talk about what
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  trauma even is.
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  And I want to go to an institution
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  that I respect.
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  This is actually a Canadian institution connected with
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  the University of Toronto, the Center for Addiction
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  and Mental Health, CAMH.
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  This is their shorthand definition of trauma.
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  Trauma is the lasting emotional response that often
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  results from living through a distressing event.
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  Experiencing a traumatic event can harm a person's
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  sense of safety, sense of self, and ability
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  to regulate emotions and navigate relationships.
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  Long after the traumatic event occurs, people with
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  trauma can often feel shame, helplessness, powerlessness, and
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  intense fear.
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  Okay.
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  So just like our definitions from the Mayo
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  Clinic, when we looked at depression and anxiety,
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  I think this is a really helpful just
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  kind of clinical definition of trauma.
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  And I want to focus on just a
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  couple phrases right at the beginning there.
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  Trauma is the lasting emotional response that often
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  results from living through a distressing event.
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  Okay.
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  So there's a traumatizing event.
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  So there's a point-in-time event, a
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  distressing event.
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  But then there's the lasting emotional response to
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  that event.
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  So the term trauma is not being used
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  just to describe the event, the painful or
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  distressing event, but the ongoing, the lasting emotional
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  response to that event.
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  Okay.
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  So bearing that in mind, okay, we got
• 6:48
  part one, the event, part two, the emotional
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  response.
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  Then part three, as we think about the
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  workplace, how does that emotional response affect you
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  at work?
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  How does it affect your experience of work
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  and your work performance?
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  So as we think of those parts, we
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  can also think about kind of working backwards
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  to a point of, with a professional, a
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  diagnosis, right?
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  Understanding, oh, this is the trauma.
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  This is what happened to me that's affecting
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  me in this way.
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  So you might be noticing, oh, I'm having
• 7:21
  this experience at work and or I'm having
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  issues with my work performance.
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  That's step three.
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  So let me work backwards.
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  Step two, oh, what is my emotional response
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  that's driving that?
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  Okay.
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  And back to step one, oh, what was
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  the painful or distressing event that I'm having
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  an emotional response to?
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  Now we've got to be careful here because
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  this brings us back to that question, what
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  counts as trauma?
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  And I said diagnosis with a professional, right?
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  Because one of the challenges of the increase
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  of therapeutic language, mental health language, just in
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  our common everyday speech, is people can self
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  -diagnose, right, without a professional being involved, without
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  an expert helping them put the puzzle pieces
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  of their life together.
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  And they can just say, oh, this was
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  a trauma that I experienced and XYZ has
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  happened.
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  And of course, all of us get to
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  tell our own story, right?
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  We're the the narrator when we give our
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  story to someone else, but it can be
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  really helpful to come alongside somebody who's equipped
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  to help you sort out, oh yeah, this
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  part of my story really drove that part
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  of my story.
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  Okay, that being said, not everything that we're
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  experiencing at work and not everything in our
• 8:31
  work performance is directly related to trauma, right?
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  So we want to be able to trace
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  these patterns where they exist, but we don't
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  want to do the hammer-nail thing where
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  it's like, oh, being trauma-informed is the
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  hammer, therefore every problem in life is somehow
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  the result of trauma.
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  And there can be a little bit of
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  that going on in our cultural moment too.
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  Sometimes stressful things, difficult things at work are
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  just stressful and difficult things at work and
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  they have nothing to do really with your
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  personal childhood experiences or traumatic events you've been
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  through.
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  So for example, a while back I just
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  did an informal unscientific Facebook survey of my
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  friends asking what stresses you out at work
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  most.
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  And here were some of the responses.
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  Leaders making decisions without understanding the operational impact.
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  My own procrastination.
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  Negative co-workers.
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  Management beating around the bush instead of answering
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  tough questions honestly.
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  Unclear expectations.
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  And then this one was my favorite.
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  The only coffee available being a Keurig.
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  Okay, so of these different stressors at work,
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  a lot of these probably don't have anything
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  to do with personal trauma necessarily.
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  Those might be leadership decisions that may be
• 9:39
  poorly made, unclear expectations, right?
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  What coffee is available.
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  While any of those might be a presenting
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  moment that could connect to an experience of
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  trauma in your past, sometimes you might be
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  stressed out just because it is an objectively
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  stressful situation.
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  One clue though that you might be experiencing
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  something that's related to a trauma is if
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  your emotional response is disproportionate to the presenting
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  issue.
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  So for example, if the only coffee being
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  a Keurig is like a mild annoyance, right?
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  Perhaps that's a normal emotional response.
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  But then you just find yourself like being
• 10:17
  really anxious about it or maybe getting weepy
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  about it.
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  That's a clue like, oh, okay.
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  That's a disproportionate emotional response to the coffee.
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  What's going on?
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  What's behind that?
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  Okay, so again, part three, experience of work.
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  Only coffee being available is a Keurig.
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  Part two, emotional response.
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  Wow, I think I'm having a disproportionate emotional
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  response.
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  Part one, is this somehow connected with a
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  traumatic event I've experienced?
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  Now that might not be the right explanation,
• 10:45
  but it's a question that's worth asking.
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  And for us as disciples of Jesus, one
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  of the reasons that it's a question worth
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  asking is that when we welcome God's presence
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  into traumatic memories, that will make us healthier
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  Christians at work.
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  When we welcome God's presence into traumatic memories,
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  that will make us healthier Christians at work.
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  And we can't welcome God's presence into those
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  memories unless we know what they are, unless
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  we've kind of done the work to figure
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  out like, oh yeah, here's an important memory
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  that's shaping my experience at work right now.
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  Now some of this might seem kind of
• 11:17
  abstract, so I want to give a couple
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  concrete examples of people who have done this
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  kind of work.
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  One of these examples comes from an anonymous
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  Reddit forum, and this one Reddit user was
• 11:27
  very forthcoming in his response.
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  He says, I was relentlessly bullied by both
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  fellow students and was always singled out by
• 11:35
  the staff and teachers for defending myself.
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  How this applies to my now 34-year
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  -old is I'm constantly worried about being fired
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  at my job.
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  It's a tough thing to get over.
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  I'm worried about how my co-workers see
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  me and I'm scared to death to ever
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  take time off or make any sort of
• 11:52
  mistake that might paint me in a bad
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  light.
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  Okay, so you see how this worker has
• 11:58
  incredible self-awareness about how their story and
• 12:02
  their experiences are affecting their work performance in
• 12:06
  the moment.
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  So again, part three, work experience, work performance.
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  They are scared to death to take time
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  off, okay?
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  And that's going to affect your work performance.
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  If you never take PTO, you're going to
• 12:17
  burn out.
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  They say they're constantly worried about being fired,
• 12:21
  so they're kind of high alert, fight-or
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  -flight response, always engaged, oh what's going to
• 12:27
  happen?
• 12:28
  Okay, and that doesn't make work a place
• 12:30
  where you can feel healthy, where you can
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  do your work with calm focus, because you're
• 12:34
  always getting stressed unnecessarily.
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  Then they're like, okay, what's the emotional response
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  there?
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  Okay, this is an emotional response where I'm
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  worried about how people see me.
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  I'm worried about how my boss is going
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  to respond to me.
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  I'm worried about how any sort of mistake
• 12:52
  might paint me in a bad light.
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  Then back to step one, this is about
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  how I was bullied when I was a
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  kid.
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  I was relentlessly bullied by both fellow students
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  and was always singled out by the staff
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  and teachers for defending myself.
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  So this person has done a good job.
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  Again, I don't know if this person did
• 13:11
  this work with a counselor or with a
• 13:12
  pastor or just in their own reflection, but
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  as best we can tell, they've really done
• 13:17
  that work to trace back, okay, here's what
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  I'm experiencing at work, here's where that's coming
• 13:21
  from in my story.
• 13:25
  And again, this is different for different people.
• 13:27
  So you might have a boss at work
• 13:30
  that actually is just a jerk boss that
• 13:32
  fires people randomly for no good reason.
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  If you're on edge around that boss, that
• 13:37
  may not be a clue that you're having
• 13:38
  a trauma response, it's just a clue that
• 13:39
  your boss is a jerk, right?
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  But if your boss is actually a kind
• 13:43
  and fair person and you're still constantly afraid
• 13:45
  of getting fired, that may be one of
• 13:47
  those clues like, hey, something else might be
• 13:49
  going on in my story here, maybe something
• 13:51
  that's worth paying attention to.
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  So you could just take a moment now
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  even and ask, okay, where do I feel
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  on edge at work?
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  Is there anywhere where I feel on edge
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  in a way that's kind of disproportionate to
• 14:03
  the presenting issue?
• 14:05
  What might that mean about my story?
• 14:08
  And again, if this is a non-starter
• 14:09
  for you, if you don't feel like that
• 14:10
  resonates with you at all, don't worry about
• 14:12
  it, right?
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  All of us are different, not all of
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  us are carrying capital T traumas with us
• 14:17
  into the workplace every day, but if we
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  are, we want to do the digging work
• 14:21
  to find out what's there for us so
• 14:24
  that we can welcome the healing of God.
• 14:26
  So I want to end just by sharing
• 14:27
  one personal story of this for me and
• 14:30
  then also looking at Psalm 23 and how
• 14:32
  we welcome God's presence into the dark places
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  in our stories.
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  So for me, kind of similar, it's a
• 14:38
  bullying story.
• 14:39
  I was not usually physically bullied as a
• 14:43
  child, but in like third, fourth, fifth, sixth
• 14:45
  grade, there was a lot of just like
• 14:47
  locker room trash talk, mean-spirited comments, occasional
• 14:51
  physical stuff like, you know, the towel snapping,
• 14:53
  right?
• 14:54
  But not in like the like camaraderie guys
• 14:56
  just beating up on each other in a
• 14:58
  friendly way, but in a mean way towards
• 15:01
  me.
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  And some of that was like, I wasn't
• 15:02
  very athletic.
• 15:03
  I wasn't very good at sports.
• 15:05
  I didn't really understand sports culture.
• 15:07
  I remember in fourth grade, a kind of
• 15:08
  pastime of my male classmates was asking Chris,
• 15:13
  oh, do you know who blank is like,
• 15:15
  do you know who Kobe Bryant is?
• 15:17
  And then I would just be like, no.
• 15:19
  And then they'd all laugh like Chris doesn't
• 15:21
  even know who Kobe Bryant is.
• 15:22
  Oh my gosh.
• 15:23
  And it's just like, I just like my
• 15:25
  ignorance became this point of ridicule and exclusion
• 15:28
  from the kind of male athletic culture.
• 15:31
  And that was reinforced in this locker room,
• 15:33
  trash talk, bullying, mean-spirited comments.
• 15:36
  Way, way, way less serious than than the
• 15:40
  bullying that many people have experienced, which can
• 15:41
  be much more physically aggressive, much more violent.
• 15:44
  But this still really affected me.
• 15:46
  And this is something that I often didn't
• 15:49
  pay attention to at the time.
• 15:50
  I just kind of brushed it off.
• 15:51
  I remember I had a friend at the
• 15:52
  time, Matt, who said like, Chris, how do
• 15:54
  you even deal with all this?
• 15:55
  And I was just like, I don't know.
• 15:57
  Just ignore it.
• 15:58
  You know, that was that was my strategy
• 16:00
  was to just ignore it, to say it
• 16:02
  doesn't matter.
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  But as I got older, I noticed that
• 16:05
  this really affected me sometimes in my work.
• 16:08
  So even just as recently as a couple
• 16:09
  years ago, I was doing a fundraising meeting
• 16:13
  and I had scheduled it.
• 16:14
  It was somebody that knew my family that
• 16:16
  I hadn't met in person before.
• 16:17
  And it was a young man around my
• 16:18
  age.
• 16:19
  So I hadn't met him, walk into the
• 16:21
  restaurant or the coffee shop to sit down
• 16:23
  with him.
• 16:24
  And he just immediately strikes me as like,
• 16:26
  oh, this is like a cool athletic guy.
• 16:29
  And then as I started talking with him,
• 16:30
  I found out, indeed, he is a cool
• 16:31
  athletic guy.
• 16:32
  Like he's telling me about how he does
• 16:33
  jiu-jitsu in his spare time and the
• 16:35
  stuff he's doing.
• 16:36
  And he just has that bearing of like
• 16:37
  someone who's very comfortable in his own body.
• 16:40
  And I just botched the fundraising presentation.
• 16:44
  I kind of get through the content, but
• 16:45
  I just feel really awkward.
• 16:46
  I feel unsettled.
• 16:47
  I feel like I'm trying too hard to
• 16:49
  impress him.
• 16:50
  I feel awkward about the clothes that I
• 16:52
  chose to wear.
• 16:54
  I was reviewing that after the meeting was
• 16:55
  mercifully over.
• 16:57
  And I was just like, what was that?
• 16:58
  And I'm like, oh, oh, okay.
• 17:01
  Work performance issue, botching the fundraising presentation.
• 17:05
  You know, step three, back to step two,
• 17:07
  emotional response, feeling like I really needed to
• 17:10
  impress this person and how I didn't have
• 17:12
  what it would take to impress this person.
• 17:15
  Back to step one.
• 17:16
  Oh, remember how I always felt excluded by
• 17:20
  male athletic culture and guys who felt super
• 17:22
  confident about athleticism?
• 17:24
  This was not a commentary on this particular
• 17:26
  young man's character in any way.
• 17:29
  This was just about me and my experience
• 17:30
  and the fact that his athletic demeanor suddenly
• 17:33
  kind of put me back in that locker
• 17:35
  room in elementary school or middle school.
• 17:39
  That was really hard for me, but I'm
• 17:42
  glad that I was able to do the
• 17:43
  work in that moment and then also able
• 17:45
  to talk to a counselor about it later
• 17:46
  on, which was great.
• 17:48
  And also to go and get prayer.
• 17:49
  But before we get to that, I want
• 17:51
  to look at Psalm 23 just briefly.
• 17:54
  So this is a really familiar passage.
• 17:57
  The Lord is my shepherd.
• 17:59
  I shall not want.
• 18:01
  He makes me lie down and green pastures
• 18:03
  and leave me beside still waters.
• 18:05
  He restores my soul.
• 18:07
  He leads me in paths of righteousness for
• 18:09
  his name's sake.
• 18:11
  Even though I walk through the valley of
• 18:13
  the shadow of death, I will not fear
• 18:16
  for you are with me.
• 18:19
  Your rod and your staff, they comfort me.
• 18:23
  You lay a table before me in the
• 18:24
  presence of my enemies.
• 18:26
  You anoint my head with oil.
• 18:29
  My cup overflows.
• 18:31
  Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all
• 18:34
  the days of my life.
• 18:35
  And I will dwell in the house of
• 18:37
  the Lord forever.
• 18:40
  So the beginning of this Psalm makes it
• 18:42
  clear that God intends our good.
• 18:44
  He leads us beside still waters.
• 18:47
  He gives us those green pastures.
• 18:49
  He restores our soul.
• 18:51
  But life is full of things that don't
• 18:53
  feel like green pastures and quiet waters, right?
• 18:55
  Life is full of traumatic experiences.
• 18:58
  Life is full of the valley of the
• 19:00
  shadow of death.
• 19:01
  Life is full of enemies, the presence of
• 19:03
  our enemies.
• 19:04
  But what is God's response to that?
• 19:07
  God's response is to be with us in
• 19:10
  those dark places.
• 19:13
  Even though I walk through the valley of
• 19:14
  the shadow of death, I will not fear
• 19:16
  for you are with me.
• 19:20
  You lay a table before me in the
• 19:22
  presence of my enemies.
• 19:24
  And where the Psalm ends is dwelling in
• 19:26
  the house of the Lord forever.
• 19:28
  That we know that God is with us.
• 19:32
  That's how God does his work of healing
• 19:34
  in our hearts.
• 19:35
  It's not by removing traumatic experiences.
• 19:38
  It's not by protecting us from anything that
• 19:40
  might be painful in our lives.
• 19:41
  It's by being with us in the middle
• 19:44
  of that pain.
• 19:47
  And that's what I was able to experience
• 19:49
  through the healing ministry of counseling and prayer
• 19:51
  at my church.
• 19:52
  Just want to share that briefly.
• 19:54
  So it wasn't specifically to do with that
• 19:56
  fundraising meeting, but it was similarly, I had
• 19:59
  just remembered a time in second grade when
• 20:02
  I wasn't just picked last or next to
• 20:05
  last for soccer at recess, which often happened.
• 20:08
  But I was just not picked at all.
• 20:10
  Like the teams were odd.
• 20:12
  So they just like started playing without me.
• 20:13
  And I was just like sitting on a
• 20:14
  rock by the side of the soccer field
• 20:16
  and just like distressed.
• 20:19
  And I took that moment to prayer at
• 20:22
  church with a friend of mine at church.
• 20:23
  I just like, hey, this came up.
• 20:25
  I talked to my counselor about it seems
• 20:26
  significant.
• 20:27
  And that friend kind of guided me through,
• 20:31
  where is Jesus for you in this memory?
• 20:36
  And I was back in that memory and
• 20:37
  I just experienced Jesus being right there and
• 20:40
  Jesus picking me for the team and Jesus
• 20:43
  saying, I want you on my team.
• 20:47
  And it was that simple.
• 20:49
  That was a moment of healing for me.
• 20:52
  So coming back to our question of what
• 20:53
  counts as trauma, I don't know that not
• 20:57
  getting picked for the soccer team is a
• 20:58
  capital T trauma.
• 20:59
  It doesn't hold a candle to what many
• 21:01
  people have experienced.
• 21:03
  But for me, it was still a memory,
• 21:06
  a painful memory that affected me.
• 21:09
  And it was worth bringing to God in
• 21:11
  prayer and it became an occasion for healing.
• 21:14
  So maybe it's not so significant what counts
• 21:17
  as trauma, as if you're noticing something at
• 21:20
  work that might be connected to something in
• 21:23
  your story, finding out what that moment is,
• 21:27
  and then bringing it to God and letting
• 21:30
  God be present to you in that moment.
• 21:32
  It's probably worth the effort.
• 21:34
  It's probably worth the effort to talk through
• 21:36
  it with a counselor or a friend or
• 21:38
  a pastor to get prayer and to see
• 21:41
  how God is with you in that moment.
• 21:46
  It's hard to say exactly how this circles
• 21:49
  back to my work performance.
• 21:51
  Maybe next time I do a fundraising meeting
• 21:53
  with a suave, confident, athletic gentleman around my
• 21:57
  age, I'll be a little bit more secure
• 21:58
  and feel less awkward and just be able
• 22:01
  to rest in the love of God for
• 22:02
  me who picked me for the team as
• 22:04
  I talk with that other man.
• 22:07
  But whatever it is, I'm confident that that
• 22:10
  little simple healing experience is going to make
• 22:12
  me just that little bit more of a
• 22:14
  healthier Christian at work.
• 22:17
  And that's good news for me and for
• 22:18
  everybody else too.
• 22:22
  Lord Jesus, thank you for being with us
• 22:25
  even in the valley of the shadow of
• 22:26
  death.
• 22:27
  Give us wisdom and discernment to know which
• 22:31
  challenges we're facing at work might be colored
• 22:34
  or shaped or framed by traumatic experiences in
• 22:39
  our past.
• 22:40
  Give us courage to pursue that question when
• 22:42
  it's fruitful to do so and help us
• 22:45
  to welcome your presence into those memories.
• 22:49
  Jesus, do your work in us as we
• 22:51
  do our work with you.
• 22:58
  Thanks for listening.
• 22:59
  Finding God at Work is a production of
• 23:01
  Mission Central, a ministry based in Aurora, Illinois
• 23:03
  dedicated to forming Christians for mission in everyday
• 23:06
  life.
• 23:07
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• 23:09
  listen to this episode to get 10 minutes
• 23:11
  of teaching on faith and work every Tuesday
• 23:13
  and Thursday.
• 23:14
  To get resources to go deeper with each
• 23:16
  podcast series, read our blog, and get info
• 23:19
  about upcoming courses on faith in the workplace,
• 23:21
  go to our website, missioncentral.church.