Latest / My Dental Playbook / 054 3 Associate Compensation Mistakes that Kill Your Practice - Part 2

Transcript

054 3 Associate Compensation Mistakes that Kill Your Practice - Part 2 · My Dental Playbook

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: The only way that you make money as an associate is by producing dentistry.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: There's no way to go get the endorsement deal as an associate.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: So the name of the game is how much dentistry can I do at the highest dollar value that I can do?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: You have to know, like, am I gonna do a bunch of crowns for$50?
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: That's not the job to take.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: All right, we are back for another episode.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Gary.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: I am the co-host of My Dental Playbook, along with my friend Dr.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Blake Hamman.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: We're diving deep into his office to take over the world to build a$10 million GP practice, fee for service in a competitive market.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: And he's well on his way.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, we just actually recorded, Dr.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Blake, I didn't I didn't even tell you, we recorded our one-year anniversary episode.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: We just took all your best takes from the first year and just rolled it up into one great podcast.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: So once you're watching this, you're we're a little bit one year removed.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: And today we're gonna be talking about associates again.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: If you haven't watched the last episode, go check that out.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: But today we're gonna be jumping into comp percentages in network versus out of network, frequency of getting paid, or when you're paying, adjusted production versus collection, all the hot stuff that you see online and people fighting over, and especially Dennis, because it's all math driven, but there's a lot of missing context there.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: And before we jump into this, I want to tell you make sure you check out our sponsor, Cherry.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: They're amazing.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: They're allow us to make this content.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're not using them, you're missing out.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Dr.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Blake literally uses Cherry with every single patient.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: He presents it.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: He did almost$100,000 just with Cherry last month, number one office in Houston.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: So go check that out.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we have special pricing and training around that.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: And this episode, one thing I want you to keep in mind as we go through this is that there is no perfect answer to any of this.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: It this a lot of this is philosophy driven.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: If you just go purely math, then you're going to create this mathematical formula that works for you, but not the other side.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're an owner doctor trying to hire an associate, you can create a mathematical formula to make you the winner and them the loser, but then they'll leave.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then you'll go through four or five associates, and that won't be fun.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: You'll waste a lot of time and energy.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: On the flip side, if you're an associate, you can also create a mathematical formula that you always win, but then the owner doctor's not, no one's going to want to work with you.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to enter into this with a philosophy of how do we meet in the middle to create a win-win for the owner and the associate and the office and the patients?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: If you do that, everybody eats, everybody's happy.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, Dr.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Blake, we you pieced this together for me, and it it helped me as you started to put it together to create a clear picture.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: And the first thing on our list is compensation.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: How should both sides be thinking through the compensation?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, there's only one reason that you're watching this podcast, and it's because you want to grow.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: We love My Dental Playbook listeners so much that we have a special gift for you.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: We have an AI overview that we do a deep dive into your market and tell you exactly what your competition is doing and how much it would cost for you to generate new patients through online marketing.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: If you're looking to grow, this is for you.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: There's a link down below.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: It takes about 15 minutes that we have to dive through that and it's completely free.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Check it out and continue to grow.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for being a loyal listener.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: Back to the show.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: How should both sides be thinking through the compensation?
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think a lot of this comes from the the uh associate side where they're they're really digesting and trying to figure out the difference between 30 and 32 percent or 28.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like those percentages matter, but uh at the same time, I think as you approach uh what position you're walking into, there's so much more that really matters.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's culture, there's mentorship, there's um like do I just like the building that I'm walking into every day?
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: Do I feel good about what I'm doing?
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh do the people that I'm gonna work with have are they filled with integrity?
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: So there's there's other things that go into compensation outside of just how much money am I gonna get paid for the the service that I provide.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um but that being said, I think the biggest thing that new grads specifically get caught up in, because I get a lot of people um that that want me to help look at contracts that maybe they're they're walking through, and I'm happy to do that.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but a lot of times they get caught up in, well, you know, this office offered me 28%, and this author office offered me you know 32%, and this one's on collections, this one's on project.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think more than anything, you your job as as the new grad or walking into the new office, just figuring out how much need is there?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like what what void am I gonna fill that adds value to the practice that will allow the practice to compensate me?
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: Because as you said, there's a lot of really bad deals made where there's practices that don't need associates or associates that don't need the practice, and and vice versa.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think finding out like have you have you married the right person is is the most important thing, more than what percentage am I being paid?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the percentage doesn't mean anything if you don't have any patience to see, right?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's right.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: The I think about it from like uh the NBA basketball.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: I watch a lot of basketball and I think about these superstars that take pay cuts so they can build a better team.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, well, why are they doing that?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: They do that to win, but you're gonna miss out on so much money.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: If they win a championship or they're really good, they're gonna make all that back plus some on endorsements.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, they took a little bit less, so they can bring in two or three other people, and it all equals more money at the end for them.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're just looking at the contract up front, that you don't understand that.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: So if I I would rather work with a Dr.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: Blake type office because you have 200 new patients, plus, you're trying to actively move treatment off of your books onto somebody else's books.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's a lot of opportunity versus a doctor, maybe who's never hired an associate before.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: There's 10 new patients a month.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's gonna be painful for him to move some of those patients over to me.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna be fighting the owner for treatment.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like I would rather take 25% with you than 30% with them.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: And what a lot of people don't think about is the relationship that you have to have inside the quarterback room, right?
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so you've uh you've got to sit with this person, likely, unless they've created separate offices.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: But in our office, we have a doctor's alcove.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: So we all sit in the same area.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: So if if it was awkward in the fact that, man, I don't trust that this guy really needs me or he's gonna help me grow and develop, like you're sitting next to this guy or girl every day that you're like, I don't know if they're the person, you know, and and and it goes both ways from to an associate or to an owner.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I think really leaning into that and knowing that there's gonna be a totally different different dynamic, not that I'm special, but for someone that would come into me knowing I'm actively trying to shed treatment to my associates so that they can do more of the clinical aspect versus a single a single doc practice who maybe thinks they need an associate because they're a little bit tired of doing dentistry, but they still don't want to leave the income that they've been used to and accustomed to making.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's gonna be a different dynamic.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you got to take that into account.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 100%.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have an agreement that you use with the associates that you bring on?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, most definitely.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like a contract.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, do you think we could share that?
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I know there's some stuff we might have to remove.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll share that down below for you guys if you want to kind of see how Dr.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Blake sets it up.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: But again, got to be careful who you work with.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: And no matter what, whatever side you're on, you're gonna spend a year figuring it out.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you're the owner doctor, you're gonna spend a year with that associate thinking, okay, I'm gonna help them.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna, and the whole time they're not motivated because you didn't set up the agreement properly.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then on the flip side, if you're an associate working for the owner doctor, like you're gonna be there for some time, even if everything's a poop storm, you're stuck there.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: So you got to really make the right decision there.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that shouldn't be off of one or two points on an agreement.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: It should be on the opportunity upside of that practice.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: And you can tell pretty quickly, you know, hey, how many new patients are you getting?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: What's your collections?
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: What uh those those things are very, very telling.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: Now, um, in that same vein, a lot of times people talk about like adjusted production versus collections.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: How are you thinking through that?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh well, I I think that there's so many different ways you can approach this conversation.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that nobody's necessarily wrong, but I think the perspective that you approach it from matters.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so what I would say is that 95% of owner owner docs would say that everybody should be paid on collections because that's the money that is actually real, that's the money that actually the business can operate out of, and that's how it should be done.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's the 5% that still think that um collections um what I would say is there's another group within that same subgroup that would say, um I believe that, but I'm still gonna pay people on adjusted production because that's the norm.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I I'd rather get the best talent than fight over adjusted productions and collections.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's a group who just um believes that adjusted production is the way to go and it's the most fair.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of times in an in-network situation, that can be a real truth.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think that some things that I've learned as an out-of-network provider is um adjusted production can get a little bit messy because of when adjustments can occur.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so we've had to create some clarity around what that looks like uh for someone that might be on adjusted production.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Ultimately, I think that as the owner, you can make both work if you run a good business.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: We've we've our collections rate is a hundred percent every single year.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's greater than a hundred percent because of how we collect.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that's ultimately my job.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: And if I um if if we talk to associates and whether they're on adjusted production or collections, they can count on the fact that they're gonna get paid fairly.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it really shouldn't change how they're paid, it might just change when that gets paid at the very beginning.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: If they're 30% and collection adjusted production and collections are theoretically should be the same number, then it's just a matter of when that number comes in.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, when that number comes in, yeah.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, totally.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so again, just going back to the philosophy side of it, like if I was an owner doctor or I was a a grad, what I'm trying to find is an agreement that is a three-way win, right?
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Owner, associate, as well as the patients in the office.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you have an agreement that isn't a three-way win, then it's not a good agreement.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I think sometimes we lack empathy, right?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Where it's just like we we lack the ability to think from the other person's shoes, and you can create something that isn't going to work for everybody.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's not good.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Some things uh I would uh encourage associates to consider is um to avoid the statement that collections is not your responsibility.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um it is not your job to collect the money, but it is partially your responsibility.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: If you continue to do dentistry on people and the office does not get paid on that dentistry, then at some point you don't have a job anymore.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so I do think that there are there is some responsibility from the associate perspective to ensure that the things being done to be able to collect that money is is taken care of.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like what?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: So like what?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, most insurances require a PA with any crown that you submit.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: So as the provider, are you ensuring that your assistant that you trust and you love are they actually taking the x-ray?
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have consents?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have prepayments?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have so following the process that you need to do to make sure that you're gonna get paid on this?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: As the patient paid their portion, yeah.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, because we all know chasing them down afterwards is gonna be a nightmare.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: And that not that it's your job, but it is also something that if we're it would be like if um if the running back for the Patriots said, It's not really my job to block.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's not on a lot of the plays, but on the past plays, we need you to block.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Or if it's like the coach says, Oh, we keep losing because we're not scoring enough points, and it's not my job to score points.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, well, yeah, you're the coach though, so um you you get you get some say in it, right?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and and that's the wrong.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's not that technically you're right, you're not scoring, but you're part of the process to help score.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: So you probably shouldn't say things like that.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's the the bottom line.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: So the and the biggest thing is just the culture, like you want the culture to be that we're all rowing the boat the same direction, you know what I mean?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so um I I understand where the statement comes from, but I also think that it's a it's a little bit uh reckless.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: It is reckless, yeah.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh is it kind of like I've I've taught young people because they'll come to me and they'll be like, I need a raise, my rent just went up.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, that's the wrong way to ask for a raise.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what do you mean?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: I need more money and it's because of my rent.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I go, I get that, but no business owner will ever just give you more money because your rent went up.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: The correct way is to say, hey, you know what?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: I would like to provide more value to the company.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: Is there things or skills or or jobs that I could do that would be more valuable?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the correct way to approach it.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: They're you're saying the same thing, but you're just saying it in a different way.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: So the correct way would be like, how can I help boost collections?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I realize that I'm not the sole contributor to collections, but I want to make sure that I'm do it following the process to make us all successful.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: And business owners love hearing that kind of conversation.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so if you're a business owner, you can send this to your associate and or potential associate and say, hey, listen to this.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: This will help them.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay, so we talked about comp percentages.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: What are what are um uh adjusted production versus collections?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it's it's a more philosophy than it is an exact number that you're gonna get to.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: What about frequency of getting paid?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I think that there's a lot of different ways you can do it.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: I know some people that pay every two weeks, um, and those adjustments just happen as time goes.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then I know people that want to see those adjustments happen adjustments happen uh and give enough enough time to allow the adjustments happen to before they pay.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um some of the concerns I have with some of that is um some people are responsible enough to budget and some people are not.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so um if you go the route of waiting to pay, then you usually have to pay a minimum uh or trust that that provider can like know how to manage their money until the next amount of their their next paycheck comes along.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um whereas if you do it every two weeks, you can they can be assured that that money is coming every two weeks and they can live life like a more normal person, I guess.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so I again there's not a right way, there's not a wrong way.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um eventually it all equals the same amount.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but it again it amounts it matters when that timing occurs.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Which one's the less that gives is the two weeks less work or is that more reconciling?
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh no, the two the two weeks is probably more work.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's probably more work because every every two weeks you're having to run that that you have to reconcile it, right?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: But um I I think it that that option puts a little more risk on the practice, so that because uh if the provider ups and leaves without notice, then there's um there's no time to make the adjustments, and so it it all becomes an adjustment against the practice versus an adjustment to the provider's report.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Got it.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I don't think I have any questions on that one.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: That one's that one is just uh you're gonna have to work it out.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: What what would you want as a if you were an associate?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: How would you want it?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't really care because I I feel like I know how to like budget and manage.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I feel like there's more security in the every two weeks, uh, because you never know when the AC is gonna go out.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: Or you know what I mean?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you're like if you if you don't have a savings and you you're counting on so it really boils down to the person's budgeting ability, yeah.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um okay, what about in-network versus out of network?
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have any thoughts on that when it comes to hiring an associate?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: I see sometimes people are like, I want to hire an associate and I want to, I'm out of network, but they're gonna be in network, or there's like all these different like convoluted ways of thinking.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Do you I know you're out of network, but what what are your thoughts on on that?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think that you have to really when I hear when I hear that that people are uh generally when I hear that people have some people in network and some people out of network, it's generally because they don't have a clear vision of what they're trying to create.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think that everyone should either be in network or everyone should be out of network.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think having confusion in the practice, it it just creates so many layers.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: So take take an example where you come in and you need a crown and uh we tell you that it's fifteen hundred dollars, and you say, Well, that's too expensive, I don't think I can do it.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then the Trudan credit says, Well, but you could see Dr.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Farrell, and with Dr.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Farrell, it's twelve hundred dollars.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: Jeez, that's crazy.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: And and they're like, I never even thought about it.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: Really, why why is that?
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, well, because he's in network, but Dr.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: Hamlin's out of network.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so like I can only imagine as a consumer.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, I think I think so.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: A doctor would think the one that's out of network is a better dentist, right?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: But in my head, as a patient, I'm thinking, no, the one in network is a better dentist.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Potentially, or it could be the opposite.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, it's less expensive because the dentist isn't as good.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so are they gonna you you see where it like it just creates a lot of confusion?
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: Your team has to like have conversations that are really weird.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, your your AR reports are really difficult to keep track of because you've got to know, oh no, this person So you need to pick a road.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I I I just think you have to, and if you if your goal, usually the reason people do something like that is because they either believe that being in network is gonna actually drive patients to these people, to these uh new doctors.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: So they don't have to learn how to market.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not that's not how it works.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's that's not how being in network works.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um or the the doctor that um the doctor that is uh out of network is trying to limit the amount of dentistry that they're doing, but they could do that yeah, you could do that artificially, yeah.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right, exactly.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's it's one of those things in dentistry that like normal business people would look at us and be like, what are you talking about?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but we have normalized it.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you were an associate and someone offered you a job and the doctor's like, I'm out of network, but you need to be in network, you're you would just be like, No, it's okay.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'll find something else.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: No, not necessarily.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think if I was in a position where uh you were joining my practice or um Dr.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Valo's practice or Dr.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: Meyer's practice, like I I really wouldn't care what I was.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like there would be so few opportunity, yeah.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if there were so many patients coming through the door that I'd be like, yeah, let's do that.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: I want to I just want to be busy and and productive.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's all I want.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um and knowing that that that well is never gonna dry up is all I would care about.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: But I I get where some people get they they they feel a level of prestige of well I'm out of network, and it's like, well, that's just the philosophy.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing like I'm no better of a dentist than Colin is then like you know what I mean?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're both great dentists, we just chose two different paths.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: So would you um so from an associate standpoint, would you be looking you wouldn't even care if it was in network or out of network, you're just looking for which one has the most opportunity.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: But that's the only way I would look for a job is what what place is gonna give me the because the only way that you make money as an as an associate is by producing dentistry.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's no there's no way to go get the endorsement deal as an associate.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: The endorsement deal works as if you're if you're the owner of a practice, right?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's like, oh no, well, I can we can make money here or we can do this, that.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: But as an associate, the only way you make money is if you produce dentistry.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: So the name of the game is how much dentistry can I do at the highest dollar value that I can do it, right?
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: And and so you you do have to know, like, am I gonna do a bunch of dentistry at a bunch of crowns for$50?
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's not the job to take.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: But if you if you're talking about the difference of doing you know 10 crowns a month at you know$1200 or 30 crowns a month at a thousand bucks, like I would do the 30 crowns at a thousand all day long.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then if you were an office that was in network and you're the owner doctor, well, how would you how would you position that to associates as a net positive?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh well, just generally, I mean, this is this is well known, but just generally in network offices have a stigma that they're busier than out-of-network offices.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: So if I was recruiting, I would totally lean on historical averages of well, no, like you don't want to go to Dr.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: Hamlin's office because it's going to be way slower than over here.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, no, you don't know.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like we figured out a better way.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know what I mean?
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're in so basically you just had to look at yourself and then and then contrast it against the rest of the market and create the opportunity.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then um, last question, and this wasn't in our notes, but I'm just genuinely curious.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: Do you sit down with the doctors and say, okay, here's our percentages?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, their percentage over there are higher or lower or whatever, but look, here's the opportunities that and forecast what their pay is going to look like based on the opportunities that they have.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Most definitely.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: And like I think part of being a good leader is just just being a good visionary and a good vision caster.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the responsibility.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that that's why you have practices that it just seems like every provider that walks through their door is amazing.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's because they're just a better leader.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I I I think that's how you recruit.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's how that's why Alabama and Nick Saban got every great recruit, was because Nick Sabin knew how to knew how to paint.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: He went out and sold the yeah, he sold the dream.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: He said, This is how this is gonna impact you and your family and your and your generations to come.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to go to the NFL, this is the school to go to.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: And if you want to go to the promised land, this is the office to come to.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: And uh you got to believe that.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you so building that first.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks so much for this, Dr.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Blake.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: This is a great show.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: And uh any last thoughts before we uh part ways?
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: No, I would just say I think all of this stuff is um as an owner, you need to set a philosophy and believe in it and and build around that philosophy.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I think as an associate, you get the flexibility of deciding um how you want to approach that.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's offices like myself who are um out of network and might pay one way or another, and there's in networkes, and there's big offices and small offices.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: And the great thing as an associate is that you get the freedom to choose what your future looks like.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: And from the owner perspective, so do you.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I I think that's the beautiful thing about dentistry is it works for everybody.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Great stuff.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much, Dr.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Beck.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: You have a good one.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, you too.