Latest / Rusty's Garage / Lyall Williamson - Part 2

Transcript

Lyall Williamson - Part 2 · Rusty's Garage

• 0:02
  A listener production.
• 0:20
  G'day, it's Rusty here, all set for part two of my podcast with one of the winningest team owners in the Tasman region, Lyle Williamson.
• 0:27
  Now, if you've arrived here and somehow missed part one, jump back to the Rusty's Garage Library and give it a listen.
• 0:34
  From his early days cleaning wheels for Denny Holm to forming a very special friendship with the Bear, whose passing at Bathurst in 1992 rocked so many in the racing community.
• 0:46
  Plus, a fun yarn in a rally car with Jim Richards that left him green to say the least around the gills.
• 0:53
  Coming up, a controversial, bittersweet Bathurst win and his memories of working with all sorts of modern generation drivers, including Craig Baird.
• 1:02
  who I hope one day does another race with IMS.
• 1:05
  That would be a nice bookend of sorts.
• 1:08
  The incredible drive and focus Earl Bamber had, even as a young racer.
• 1:13
  And the moment Lyle had to ring Sir Colin Giltrap after a brand new race car was wrecked.
• 1:19
  We begin part two with reflections on when he truly felt comfortable that IMS was established and a proven performer.
• 1:30
  At what point did international motorsport for you feel really cemented and away?
• 1:39
  You've talked about some of the overseas missions that you've been on and so on.
• 1:44
  But in the early phase, when you embark on something like that, was there ever any sort of difficulties, uncertainties?
• 1:50
  At what point did you think, right, what you wanted to do and what this has now become, when did it feel?
• 1:56
  Well,
• 1:56
  I think when I thought we were achieving things was when I got taken to the World BMW Motorsport Awards in Pittsburgh or somewhere.
• 2:16
  And I flew there not knowing a lot about what's on.
• 2:23
  I wasn't expecting anything.
• 2:26
  Plus, I'm an emotional guy and not good at speaking and things like that.
• 2:30
  I prefer just to do my thing.
• 2:34
  And I got called up onto the stage.
• 2:39
  And I'm looking around thinking, that sounds like my name, but it's not my name.
• 2:46
  And everyone...
• 2:47
  It felt surreal to you, did it?
• 2:49
  Well, and then the guys at the table said, that's you they're calling.
• 2:53
  Who, me?
• 2:54
  Jesus, no.
• 2:55
  They said, yes, it is.
• 2:57
  And, of course, part of it was you had those little earphones, so some of it was in English and the other language.
• 3:04
  So I go up there and this guy gives this glowing bloody thing about these hex in New Zealand who've done this, this, this and this and how many races we've done and bloody all this sort of glorying thing.
• 3:21
  And I'm like, holy hell.
• 3:23
  And if I'm going to speak, I'm going to choke.
• 3:27
  So luckily my old friend Rudy Minor knows that I'm not good at those sort of things.
• 3:37
  So he comes up onto the stage and saves my bacon by saying he doesn't... Not keen on speaking or something?
• 3:48
  No, he covered my ass by saying he's got a problem at the moment and he can't speak anymore.
• 3:56
  So I go back and sit there and one of those awards over there is what it was.
• 4:05
  And then the money that I was getting to run the team changed and it
• 4:16
  They also helped with BMW in New Zealand because we'd won, I think it was our eighth or ninth championship with Craig Beard and Jason Richards and Brett Riley.
• 4:28
  So I'm not saying it got easier, but I thought...
• 4:32
  Well, we are getting somewhere these days.
• 4:34
  Yeah.
• 4:39
  But I don't think you ever get anywhere in motor racing.
• 4:42
  You just kid yourself that you do and then it's hard work, as you know, especially in this little country.
• 4:50
  Yeah, definitely, definitely.
• 4:51
  Let's bounce through some of those names.
• 4:52
  I'm glad you brought up.
• 4:54
  First of all, where did you first come into contact with Craig Baird?
• 4:57
  What was he like?
• 4:59
  And there's a beautiful...
• 5:00
  So downstairs, I think there's a – hanging on the wall, there's some BMW memorabilia.
• 5:06
  I think it's a jacket from Charlie Lamb, maybe Craig Baird race suit, Jason Richards race suit.
• 5:12
  I'll miss someone in the middle there as well, I think, so –
• 5:15
  What happened was after Denny passed away, we were put on hold and BMW New Zealand said, look, we don't know what's going on.
• 5:26
  I said, well, funny enough, they're in touch with me.
• 5:28
  And they said, oh, no, they've got to go through us.
• 5:31
  So it was all that little pinpricking stuff.
• 5:35
  And they said...
• 5:38
  tell us who the drivers are.
• 5:40
  I said, well, I want to replace Denny with Brett Riley.
• 5:43
  And who the hell is Brett Riley?
• 5:45
  So I'd tell him who he is and the amazing stories that go on behind the scenes with Brett.
• 5:55
  And then I'm thinking about who we need is going to fill the young drivers' shoes.
• 6:06
  And I'm in my office up in Khyber Pass in the penny-farthing days, and I hear this bloody bit of a ruckus in the reception area out there.
• 6:22
  I opened the door, what's going on?
• 6:24
  And this little lady at our reception said, this guy here won't go away.
• 6:30
  He's waiting to see you.
• 6:34
  Oh.
• 6:34
  I look at him, I think, oh, I know you.
• 6:37
  And I said, all right, you come in.
• 6:38
  Like, he almost pushed me out of the doorway so he could get in.
• 6:42
  And he sits there and...
• 6:44
  I said, you all right?
• 6:45
  And he goes, no, no, no, I need a job.
• 6:47
  I want to do it.
• 6:49
  I said, hey, slow down, slow down.
• 6:51
  So he was so wound up and he said, you know Dick Bennett?
• 6:59
  So I said, yeah.
• 7:00
  He said, I've been with him.
• 7:01
  I said, yeah, I've been reading about you.
• 7:03
  He said, not me, it's the car.
• 7:05
  The car's making use of something.
• 7:07
  I said, I don't think you need to go around saying that.
• 7:10
  He said, look, I...
• 7:12
  What can I do?
• 7:13
  I'll do anything.
• 7:15
  So I thought, oh, it's...
• 7:21
  He's a bag of trouble, so we'll come back to him.
• 7:24
  So away he goes.
• 7:26
  He said, well, can I come back tomorrow?
• 7:28
  I said, no.
• 7:29
  He said, can I go down to the race shop and have a look?
• 7:31
  I said, there's nothing really there for you to see.
• 7:33
  The boys are just stripping the cars and blah, blah, blah.
• 7:37
  Well, I could work there for you.
• 7:39
  You don't have to pay me.
• 7:41
  Oh, okay.
• 7:44
  So away he went and I went back to life, get back to work the next day and I get a phone call from Craig Owen.
• 7:54
  He, funny enough, is still working for me to this day.
• 7:58
  Wow, wow.
• 7:59
  So... You get a phone call.
• 8:01
  And he says...
• 8:03
  Craig Bensier.
• 8:05
  What do I do with them?
• 8:07
  I said, well, you know, we're scraping the under seal off the bottom of the car.
• 8:11
  He goes, yeah.
• 8:12
  I said, give him car two and tell him.
• 8:19
  So he lasted about a few hours and then he disappeared again.
• 8:24
  I don't know.
• 8:27
  And then, of course, I looked around and we tried finding somebody.
• 8:33
  And I said, he's a mongrel.
• 8:35
  He wants to do it.
• 8:37
  He's bloody.
• 8:38
  We go for test day with a road-going M3 BMW.
• 8:43
  I said, this kid is so fast, he doesn't even know.
• 8:48
  how good he is.
• 8:49
  So we took him on and, God, he was a shocker.
• 8:54
  Was he?
• 8:56
  Well, in a nice way.
• 8:58
  Yeah.
• 8:58
  In a nice way.
• 8:59
  He's a cheeky boy.
• 9:00
  He's a white, you know, but he's, you know.
• 9:03
  He came with me in warts and all and he, the good thing was he,
• 9:14
  Respected or he appreciated that this was an opportunity.
• 9:19
  Yeah.
• 9:20
  And he did a lot of races with us.
• 9:22
  And funny enough, when we almost got destroyed way back when the XXX racing team formed and Craig went across there, he was also the guy that almost brought about my downfall.
• 9:37
  Really?
• 9:38
  So we've...
• 9:39
  our relationship is only just getting better because I'm not one to let go very easily.
• 9:46
  But, of course, he took out senior people or XXX did in those days and our driver and that was very hard to get over that that would happen.
• 10:00
  And he's right these days, he says, come on, are you over it yet?
• 10:05
  I said, no, and he goes, come on, I'm not going to do many more races, but you and I need to do a race to bury the hatchet.
• 10:15
  Nice, nice.
• 10:16
  So I said, see that woman over there?
• 10:19
  He says, you're not going to do it again, are you?
• 10:22
  I said, you go and tell her that you're going to drive and see what she says.
• 10:27
  LAUGHTER
• 10:28
  And Joey says he always comes up and goes hi and gives her a kiss and the rest of it.
• 10:32
  And she says, I can feel that he wants to say, come on, I want to come back and do a couple of races.
• 10:40
  Yeah, yeah.
• 10:41
  But he was close to us.
• 10:42
  Yeah.
• 10:44
  And funny enough, a lot of the drivers, even today with Johnny Reed and – Yep.
• 10:50
  All the drivers end up, it's a fatal mistake that I have that I most probably get too involved with them.
• 11:01
  Close to them.
• 11:01
  Too close.
• 11:02
  And I can't change that because that's just the way that it is.
• 11:07
  But back in those days, like the things.
• 11:12
  And poor old Brett Riley was as honest as a day's long, not saying Craig was, but they would fiddle with his tyres and they would do things.
• 11:24
  And did you touch that car last night of doing it?
• 11:29
  No, shit no.
• 11:32
  Well, how come it's now this and the mechanics are saying no?
• 11:37
  But, yes, he was special.
• 11:44
  Yeah.
• 11:44
  Tell me about Brett Riley.
• 11:45
  The more you're at it.
• 11:46
  Come on.
• 11:49
  Well, I knew Brett's dad, Johnny Riley, and we raced against him.
• 11:53
  And I'd seen Brett around a lot of the race circuits when we were going, and Brett was the kid sitting in the back seat of the car while his dad was in the pub with Red Dawson and all the rest of them.
• 12:07
  And he used to say, I'm going to drive a race car with you guys.
• 12:11
  Oh, yeah, yeah, oh, yeah.
• 12:13
  And, of course, he went off to Europe and he ended up with Nigel Mansell flatting with him.
• 12:21
  He didn't have the belief in himself that he needed to, and that's why Mansell beat him to the drive with Chapman because...
• 12:36
  Brett had done an amazing race in the uni parts, single seater in the little F3 cars in the wet.
• 12:45
  And Chapman came and go, Brett, his phone number, and said, give me a call, but make sure you ring me tonight before a certain time.
• 12:56
  And Brett told me, I said, what actually happened there, mate?
• 13:03
  So Brett also is not a big drinker, and he was at the pub with Mansell, and Mansell knew that Chapman had spoke to him.
• 13:14
  He said, are you going to ring him or not?
• 13:19
  And self-doubt came in.
• 13:21
  He said, oh, he's only going to tell me I need to bring money.
• 13:25
  So he hummed in hard, and it was getting close to, I think it was 9 o'clock that it had to be.
• 13:33
  So he said, if you're not going to give it to me.
• 13:38
  So Mansell slid down the other end of the bar, rung,
• 13:43
  Chapman made an appointment for the next day in Oloresford.
• 13:46
  And, of course, he got the job and Brett didn't.
• 13:48
  Wow, sliding doors.
• 13:50
  And Brett regretted it in some ways.
• 13:54
  And I think he regretted it a lot.
• 13:56
  But as the years went by, he handled it very well.
• 14:00
  But he is such a gentleman.
• 14:04
  But, gee, he's talented.
• 14:06
  Very.
• 14:07
  Speaking of talented, one of the things I feel immensely proud of but I feel was an enormously difficult thing to do was kind of emceeing Jason Richards' funeral.
• 14:21
  Oh, I remember you doing it up here, yes.
• 14:24
  He was a great guy, mate, a great guy.
• 14:26
  And you got to see some good things as far as his talent was concerned.
• 14:31
  And I feel sad in many ways, mate, that we weren't afforded the chance to see even more in supercars from him.
• 14:38
  Well, his arrival with me was almost the same as Craig Beard's.
• 14:46
  Determined, like a determined sort of... No, the way he arrived into my... We were at Manfield and we were running the two cars.
• 14:55
  We had been given the go-ahead to build the new one, so we had a buyer for one of the coops, and Jason had a mate who was flogging him to anyone who would listen and trying to get him a drive.
• 15:16
  And this elderly guy, or not elderly guy, but a mature guy rocks up with this lady,
• 15:26
  He said, can we talk to you?
• 15:29
  Oh, yeah.
• 15:29
  Like, who are you?
• 15:31
  And it was Dave and Pauline.
• 15:35
  Sorry, mate.
• 15:35
  I know, I know, I know.
• 15:37
  It's okay.
• 15:37
  It's okay.
• 15:38
  I fell in love with him too.
• 15:40
  So we said, look, we're going to do it.
• 15:42
  You couldn't not.
• 15:43
  He just had a beautiful personality, didn't he?
• 15:46
  So we did a test day.
• 15:47
  Let me get my breath back.
• 15:51
  So Craig...
• 15:53
  what's this little prick doing here?
• 15:57
  So he kept tapping and giving Jase a real hard time.
• 16:05
  But Jase wore him down and, of course, did well.
• 16:13
  BMW loved him.
• 16:18
  But the way he came into that tent after his mum and dad had been in and we were all, I don't know whether we'd finished a race or doing a race and this kid comes through the door like a bloody rocket.
• 16:32
  Oh, I'm Jason.
• 16:33
  I'm going to drive for you.
• 16:35
  I'm going to drive for you.
• 16:39
  But it was so, what do you call it, it was so nice, you couldn't be offended by it.
• 16:47
  No, correct.
• 16:47
  Beautifully enthusiastic, wasn't it?
• 16:49
  Yeah.
• 16:50
  Yeah, that was it.
• 16:51
  He was.
• 16:52
  He was.
• 16:53
  And then, of course, time went on and he moved on to Team Kiwi right at the wrong time.
• 17:04
  And I said, mate, you're doing the wrong thing.
• 17:06
  He said, I know, but what can I do?
• 17:08
  I can't.
• 17:10
  I can't get to drive anywhere else.
• 17:14
  Tell me about a couple of other youngsters that are on posters outside, a very young Dan Gaunt coming through here.
• 17:21
  And I think you had, am I right in saying, you had, he might have had an incident in the very interesting, very, very, very first TRS, is that right?
• 17:30
  Yes.
• 17:30
  And you had to ring, did you have to ring Sir Colin and Giltrap and convince him that, hey, now this guy's, we've got to get back behind him, don't we?
• 17:38
  No, well, we got rougher than that.
• 17:41
  So the Toyota Series is starting.
• 17:45
  I think he's there.
• 17:45
  Is it, could be, yeah.
• 17:48
  And same thing, who are we going to have for driving?
• 17:52
  And I've always had a pretty good eye to know good drivers and things, so I put up who I thought, and then Colin said, well, which one?
• 18:02
  So I said, my choice would be Dan...
• 18:06
  He's hungry, he's wanting to go places and all the rest of it.
• 18:12
  So we were putting our race team together and he...
• 18:19
  all fired up and we've done some tests, all good.
• 18:22
  We go to Ruripuna.
• 18:24
  Now, we're not going to go for fast times and all the rest of us.
• 18:28
  So he's just... Ease in.
• 18:30
  We ease ourselves in.
• 18:33
  Colin, make sure you ring me each time I run.
• 18:35
  Yeah, yeah, I always run because I'd known Colin for so many years.
• 18:40
  And so...
• 18:45
  Stephen Giles says, I think, yeah, she's good to let him go.
• 18:49
  The car's all settled down and let's see how we go.
• 18:52
  So I was wandering back somewhere and I heard people go, oh, that's a big one.
• 19:01
  I thought, oh, look, I wonder who that is.
• 19:05
  Oh, I went to the toilet and I come back from the toilet and next, where are you?
• 19:11
  You better get here, you better get here.
• 19:13
  Oh, yeah, okay, no big deal.
• 19:15
  I go back and I see this car coming back in two pieces.
• 19:21
  And it's our car, I can see the colour.
• 19:23
  I go, oh, Jesus, you're joking.
• 19:26
  So how is he?
• 19:27
  Oh, he's all right.
• 19:28
  He's bumping around over there, but he's not looking forward to seeing you.
• 19:32
  So we had a chat.
• 19:33
  What did you do, lad?
• 19:34
  And he goes, oh, yeah.
• 19:36
  I can't say that something locked up in the car, but I wonder whether it did or whether I just went too hot and all the rest of it.
• 19:44
  And I said, Jesus, like, this is the first meeting, mate.
• 19:48
  This is not going to go down well.
• 19:50
  So...
• 19:52
  I ring Richard Giltrett and I said, hey, I've got a bit of a problem here.
• 19:57
  Oh yeah, what's that?
• 19:58
  The car's in two pieces.
• 20:00
  And he goes, yeah, I'm joking.
• 20:02
  I said, no.
• 20:04
  He says, don't ring me.
• 20:07
  You ring the old man.
• 20:09
  I said, yeah, OK.
• 20:11
  So I ring Colin and he says, I've already heard.
• 20:17
  I said, so how bad is it?
• 20:19
  I said, well, it's in two pieces.
• 20:21
  It's what?
• 20:24
  I said, it's in two pieces, but the driver's OK.
• 20:27
  I give out the driver.
• 20:29
  He says, put it in the container and come home.
• 20:33
  I said, what about the other car?
• 20:36
  And I leave him going.
• 20:38
  I said, mate, are you sure?
• 20:40
  I said, Toyota, I've got a tub here.
• 20:42
  He goes, no, come home.
• 20:44
  So I wait for a while and Richard rings me.
• 20:49
  He said, what did he say?
• 20:50
  He said, I've come home, but we can't do that.
• 20:52
  We'll have to just let the dust settle.
• 20:55
  He said, ring Michael.
• 20:57
  I said, why?
• 20:58
  He said, oh, Michael's the...
• 21:01
  pride at the moment.
• 21:03
  I'm on the back foot with the old man so I ring Michael.
• 21:06
  He goes, yeah, the old man's told me.
• 21:08
  What's happened?
• 21:10
  I said, we don't quite know but something locked up at the hip and caught the concrete curbing and just snapped the car in half.
• 21:17
  I said, you all right?
• 21:18
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 21:19
  Leave it with me.
• 21:20
  So don't get a phone call.
• 21:24
  All
• 21:29
  Yeah.
• 21:30
  So what did you do?
• 21:31
  I said, I'm waiting to hear from you.
• 21:34
  Why?
• 21:35
  I said, because you said pack it all up and come home.
• 21:39
  Well, you said they had a tub there.
• 21:41
  And I said, yeah, but you said...
• 21:43
  Pack it up.
• 21:44
  Yeah, pack it up and come home.
• 21:45
  He goes, you sure you have?
• 21:49
  I reckon you'll put it together again.
• 21:52
  And I said, well, how would you know that?
• 21:55
  And he says, because I've got spies.
• 21:56
  And I said, no, no, we're going to need a tub.
• 21:59
  So I put the tub there and we've just set the suspensions on.
• 22:03
  Oh, so it's not ready to race.
• 22:05
  Well, not really.
• 22:08
  Willie, is it ready to race?
• 22:10
  Well, it could be.
• 22:12
  So we dodged the bullet.
• 22:15
  And every now and again when I have some problems with Dan...
• 22:19
  I say, just remember what happened last time.
• 22:22
  He goes, oh, yeah, but you're easier to deal with.
• 22:27
  But he won us the Grand Prix.
• 22:30
  Yeah.
• 22:32
  He won us the Lady Wigram Trophy race.
• 22:35
  And he's one of those ones that's got under my skin and been a real, and of course it's a pleasure having him back with us now.
• 22:43
  Correct, yeah.
• 22:45
  But he was, like Jason and like Craig, he was a hear and scare and back then too.
• 22:51
  We'll see, we'll see.
• 22:52
  A couple more to finish while we pick your brains on a few drivers.
• 22:56
  Earl Bamber.
• 22:57
  Earl, yeah, well, Earl Bamber.
• 23:02
  Later on in life now, of course, he's a different person.
• 23:06
  But back in those days with us, nobody would touch him.
• 23:12
  I helped him get the job in Mercedes-AMG when he wrote the...
• 23:16
  pick Carr off the same as Daniel on the test day.
• 23:21
  But he's unbelievably talented, but he has absolute vision that it's him, him, him, and nobody else.
• 23:31
  I don't give a fuck about you, him, or whatever.
• 23:35
  And funny enough, he's...
• 23:39
  Back then, Colin was struggling with it all too.
• 23:43
  But we got through the poor stuff and away he went.
• 23:48
  And, of course, now you see how successful he is.
• 23:52
  And that's because of that drive.
• 23:56
  But his father had become a good mate to me because he knew that I was holding it together back in those early days.
• 24:05
  But it got too hard and fast overseas and then he's moved on and that's how it is.
• 24:11
  And there is a photo of a very young Shane Van Gisbergen before he's gone on to...
• 24:16
  Yes, and he drove the Toyota too.
• 24:20
  That was the meeting at the A1, which is one of the more pleasurable meetings that I ever did that sticks in my mind, and that was mainly because at the one meeting of the A1 Grand Prix, we run... Dan Gorn told me this.
• 24:36
  Did you run 30 cars?
• 24:38
  Is that right?
• 24:38
  How many cars did you run?
• 24:39
  Fifteen Porsches.
• 24:41
  Yeah.
• 24:42
  Um...
• 24:44
  Three V8s with Angus Fogg, Paul Pedersen, and I forget the other guy.
• 24:51
  Mm-hmm.
• 24:53
  Three Toyotas with Shane Van Gisbergen, Daniel Gaunt, and I forget the other guys, and four Minis.
• 25:06
  Amazing.
• 25:07
  That's got to be just about a record, doesn't it?
• 25:09
  How many staff did you have to run all that?
• 25:11
  I had, I think it was just on 50, but it was the things that you don't think about, like the logistics of business.
• 25:24
  It snowballed on me and, you know, the accommodation, the tyres, the brakes, the parts.
• 25:31
  All the different cars.
• 25:33
  The cars.
• 25:34
  And wherever I went, I had somebody, that's not fair, he's done this.
• 25:43
  It was just constant for three or four days of...
• 25:48
  The worst side of telltales and things.
• 25:53
  But I must admit it took a couple of days to come right after that meeting.
• 25:57
  But we won a lot of races in that day too.
• 26:03
  That was certainly one of the major efforts we ever did.
• 26:07
  Are you not surprised Shane's gone on to go and do what he's done?
• 26:10
  No, no.
• 26:12
  He drove the Porsche for us as well.
• 26:16
  And it was what you see now and what you've watched from...
• 26:22
  The early snapshot you got of that.
• 26:23
  Yeah, there was no halfway.
• 26:25
  He was...
• 26:26
  I said, well, hang on, hang on.
• 26:28
  You're trying to kill the car.
• 26:31
  That's how I drive.
• 26:33
  We ain't going to have a very long relationship here.
• 26:36
  But at any rate, he...
• 26:39
  He was just another street above everyone else.
• 26:52
  OK, this next steer could be one of my best yet.
• 26:56
  Speaking of team ownership and racing cars, you have to, have to, have to head back into Rusty's garage and listen to Roland Williams' Surry Dane and the story behind Triple Eight Racing.
• 27:07
  I had to do something to try and put together a crew that would win Bathurst.
• 27:15
  And so...
• 27:17
  Not everyone, but a lot of people used to pair their drivers up in those days.
• 27:22
  So I wanted somebody who was really good to put with Craig, but who also would be a young Australasian driver who would appeal to the local market, who would be a sort of half a generation younger than Craig.
• 27:43
  with potential so and I spoke to there were three people on the shortlist you know there was Frosty there was Davo Will Davison and Jamie and to be honest the one who jumped the hardest highest fastest to try and do something was Jamie yeah he was I think he thought it was a
• 28:08
  a wind-up when he got a phone call from me.
• 28:12
  But he was driving that year in 05 for another very good friend of mine, Tim Miles, but he was out of a drive at the end of the year.
• 28:26
  So, yeah, he knew that.
• 28:29
  I think Murph was coming in the following year or whatever.
• 28:32
  So he, yeah, couldn't go on a plane fast enough to come up.
• 28:38
  And he didn't care, or he said he didn't care, about the money.
• 28:44
  So I didn't pay him very much if he didn't care about it.
• 28:48
  So he was ready, willing and able.
• 28:52
  But we had been particularly impressed by his driving in the two Enduros, both at Sandown and at Bathurst with Jason Richards.
• 29:02
  Another unreal player in the world of motorsport.
• 29:05
  Now, back to Rusty Wego.
• 29:09
  Can we talk a couple of stories before we get to what you're doing now and the business here and so on?
• 29:14
  Firstly, David Brabham has been on the podcast.
• 29:17
  So has Craig Baird for that matter over time.
• 29:20
  Yeah, both of them have.
• 29:22
  Walk me through winning and then Morrison Baird losing Bathurst, but at the same time the sister car wins it, that famous two-litre race.
• 29:32
  It's on the wall, though.
• 29:34
  The bottom one is the newspaper.
• 29:38
  What are we talking about?
• 29:38
  It's A&P Bathurst 1000 1997, I think, wasn't it?
• 29:40
  Yeah, yeah.
• 29:41
  So...
• 29:43
  We're going reasonably well through testing.
• 29:47
  BMW have moved in behind us, brought people out from Germany.
• 29:51
  I had to go to Germany and be briefed on how they want to run it because the competition with Audi and Brad Jones, Audi were helping him and it was dog eat dog.
• 30:07
  And we had quick cars.
• 30:11
  We were on top of it.
• 30:13
  The next minute there's a scream on the phone, puncher, puncher.
• 30:20
  So Beard or Morris comes in with the tyre off.
• 30:29
  Car goes up, flicks the wheel off, but the wheel nut spins and goes off into the... Fast line.
• 30:39
  So we get it all sorted and send them.
• 30:44
  And next minute, Tim Jenkins sent a guy down.
• 30:48
  He go and tell Williamson I want to see him up here.
• 30:51
  And I think, oh, fuck, we're so busy, and it was the heat of the battle.
• 30:57
  And I don't know what I said to the guy, but I just said, you tell Tim I'll get there when I can, but I get this message.
• 31:05
  And...
• 31:05
  No, you'll come now or I'll black flag your car.
• 31:09
  So, oh, really?
• 31:12
  So I go upstairs and Tim's got this grin on his face.
• 31:17
  I say you're too big and important that you can't come and see me.
• 31:21
  And I said, no, no, no, we're just a bit busy.
• 31:26
  So, what did I just see on your screen?
• 31:32
  He goes, what?
• 31:33
  just listen to me, I'm talking to you.
• 31:35
  I said, that's our car.
• 31:39
  And he said, yeah, well, you've been building and blah, blah, blah.
• 31:45
  I can't let, no, something's wrong.
• 31:46
  At any rate, tell me off, what are you going to do?
• 31:48
  He said, oh, get back down there, you fucking kiwi or whatever he said to me.
• 31:54
  I get back down there.
• 31:55
  I said, what happened?
• 31:56
  And they said, we just came in and changed the wheel and that again because it wasn't right and we changed drivers.
• 32:06
  You what?
• 32:08
  So I said to Paul Sipanek,
• 32:11
  And he just erupted.
• 32:15
  I said, do you realise what you've done?
• 32:19
  And he goes, mate, if you think you can do it, you do it.
• 32:23
  Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 32:26
  I said, you know, we're short on time, so we're going to have to do another stop.
• 32:34
  So... Because you were worried about minimum and maximum laps for the drivers, weren't you?
• 32:38
  Yeah, and he was short.
• 32:40
  Mm-hmm.
• 32:41
  by something small, like two or three laps.
• 32:44
  Laps, okay.
• 32:46
  And I think it was Craig who went back in the car, but he had picked off Craig Owen, saying, hey, we've stuffed up, you're gonna have to go back in the car again.
• 33:03
  And it was just a disaster.
• 33:06
  So,
• 33:08
  Rudy Miner was there and so was Paul Rosher.
• 33:11
  And they said, you concentrate on the Brabham car now and just Morrison... You knew then?
• 33:19
  You knew then it was game over for it?
• 33:20
  Is that what you're saying?
• 33:21
  Yeah, we knew that we could not fix it.
• 33:23
  Fix it far out.
• 33:25
  Well, we knew we could, but we knew we couldn't fix it to bring him back onto the first.
• 33:30
  Yeah.
• 33:31
  And Terry Morris was just...
• 33:37
  on fire.
• 33:38
  So he says, you did that deliberately.
• 33:41
  And I said, no, no, no, no, no, no, I wouldn't do that.
• 33:47
  At any rate, it fumed for the rest of the race.
• 33:53
  And then...
• 33:55
  Somebody from inside the German thing was talking.
• 34:00
  This is what the hearsay was.
• 34:02
  And in the proximity of the Morris's.
• 34:07
  But I never knew whether it was true or not.
• 34:10
  And somebody apparently said, well, it suits BMW for the Brabham's to win, not the other car.
• 34:21
  I never ever saw that sort of...
• 34:25
  indication or statement in my dealings with BMW.
• 34:30
  They were always very straight.
• 34:33
  So that's caused all sorts of problems.
• 34:36
  And then, of course, it came to BMW having a fallout with the Morrises and it was not a happy time.
• 34:49
  we got first and second still but the wrong way round.
• 34:53
  You knew Craig, you knew Craig pretty well, how was he in the wake of that?
• 34:57
  Feeling like he'd won his first Bathurst and then to have it... Everyone was, the whole team on that car was gutted but there has been stories that
• 35:10
  It was a big surprise.
• 35:11
  We knew within half an hour, three quarters of an hour, when Paul Sopranek, we had a big whiteboard there and we were doing all the plotting and we could see, oops, there's a problem.
• 35:24
  Problem.
• 35:25
  Okay.
• 35:26
  Damn.
• 35:26
  It's going to cost another pit stop.
• 35:29
  So on the one hand, you had that scenario, and then you had the Brabhams winning it as well.
• 35:33
  I mean, it's sort of bittersweet in some ways, isn't it?
• 35:35
  It was.
• 35:36
  And then we went on and won the Manufacturers' Championship.
• 35:42
  And good old Germans, like, forget that.
• 35:46
  That's what happened.
• 35:48
  Yeah, but I'm getting a lot of flack from these people over there.
• 35:52
  Who cares?
• 35:53
  Forget it.
• 35:53
  Don't talk.
• 35:54
  Don't talk.
• 35:55
  Move on.
• 35:56
  I said, I have to work with them.
• 35:59
  And by the way, they own the building where we are.
• 36:02
  Yeah, don't worry.
• 36:04
  Shit, it was quite cold and, yeah, very cold.
• 36:11
  I'm just going to break into the chat again here for everyone's benefit, including Lyles too.
• 36:16
  This is his recollection of a high stakes moment in motorsport.
• 36:21
  You all know how big Bathurst is.
• 36:23
  Paul Morris would go on to win, but it was 14 years later with Ford Performance Racing.
• 36:28
  So you can appreciate the tension that would exist around something you've worked your whole life for, seemingly slipping from your grasp, especially as the Morrises had such prominent positions in this team.
• 36:42
  Now, Bardo, Paul and David Brabham are all in our Rusty's Garage library.
• 36:47
  So I would implore you to listen to their take on Bathurst 97 as well.
• 36:52
  So you can then form a balanced opinion.
• 36:55
  For clarity, Lyle said it was just hearsay that in some corners BMW people allegedly may have indicated a Brabham win suited them better.
• 37:06
  Remember, that's hearsay.
• 37:08
  Now, let's get back to the podcast.
• 37:11
  They say time heals a lot of wounds.
• 37:12
  Is that wound healed with those guys, or is it not something that you're talking about now?
• 37:17
  Paul Morris has given me a flick in the air quite a few times.
• 37:23
  He doesn't deal with actually what happened.
• 37:27
  He just thinks that it was a big set-up and all the rest of it.
• 37:33
  But Paul's Paul.
• 37:36
  We had a good relationship while it all worked, but it'd be silly if he thought that it would have been something that we could have been that clever to engineer.
• 37:47
  The business here now does some amazing restorations, beautiful, beautiful cars.
• 37:52
  You've got 17 staff here, haven't you?
• 37:55
  17 staff.
• 37:57
  Some great cars that are being restored, but also race cars.
• 38:01
  Tell us a little bit about that.
• 38:03
  Well, I've always done the restoration work and that came from Archibalds because the latter part of my apprenticeship was Archibalds had built quite a large car collection in those days.
• 38:16
  So I was...
• 38:19
  when we went motor racing, that's the sort of work we were doing.
• 38:23
  And PDL, of course, Bob Stewart had the same philosophy.
• 38:29
  So it was inbred in me to do that.
• 38:32
  It's very difficult to run a race team in this country and keep staff employed and going.
• 38:39
  Just on the race cars, yeah.
• 38:41
  Our seasons are getting better and longer.
• 38:46
  And luckily these days we have some of the best drivers and people supporting the cars and things so we can actually do it.
• 38:55
  But it also teaches them the mechanics and that a finer side of doing cars when you do restoration work.
• 39:05
  But it also works the other way around where...
• 39:09
  If they're good at doing a race car, they should be good at setting up a road car.
• 39:14
  But I think at the moment we've got something like three years' work waiting to be done.
• 39:20
  But as I'm heading towards the latter part of my working life, Nick has some different views, most probably on how he's going to run it in the future, no doubt.
• 39:37
  But...
• 39:39
  While I'm still here doing it, we'll still keep restoration work while it's available to us.
• 39:45
  Good.
• 39:47
  I've had a couple of people help me with different bits and pieces of information for this.
• 39:52
  So Johnny Reid's been very kind as well, right?
• 39:55
  He says you have, I'm quoting him here, you have a great way in leading the men and women that make up the successful team that is international motorsport, right?
• 40:04
  You always feel a part of the family involved.
• 40:07
  rather than just a part of the race team.
• 40:10
  Lyle also hides his Belgian biscuits from me on race weekends.
• 40:16
  My most enjoyable moments with him are always over a glass of red just to sit and listen to the history.
• 40:23
  That's nice of him.
• 40:24
  Yeah.
• 40:25
  He's been, I mean, Andrew Waite's been a more recent addition.
• 40:28
  There's been some great ones that you've had passed through here, mate.
• 40:31
  What did you say before?
• 40:33
  Like a hundred drivers or thereabouts.
• 40:34
  Is that right over time?
• 40:36
  Well, of course, you look at how many years it's been and how many, yeah, it's...
• 40:44
  Amazing.
• 40:45
  But I can't even believe it myself, really, but it's...
• 40:51
  I'll show you some of the stuff upstairs.
• 40:53
  But the record...
• 40:54
  I've always been a bit of a stickler at having all the records done, and even to this day now we still have briefing books and things way beyond what other people have.
• 41:06
  People do, yeah.
• 41:08
  But the records that go back, because every now and again I get caught with a guy coming up saying, hey, do you remember me?
• 41:19
  And I'm hopeless with that sort of thing.
• 41:22
  And then he reminds me who he was, because we've had some that just come and did drives with us.
• 41:28
  We've had...
• 41:29
  People that have stayed for many a year, but it's good looking back and seeing that, but I've never really had them coming saying nasty things.
• 41:44
  Things.
• 41:44
  They've always seemed to have gone away apart from that Fahey era, which was considering how many people I've had working for us over the years.
• 41:55
  We've won something like 34 national championships.
• 42:00
  And then that's, while I don't dwell on it, you caught me out the other day when I was thinking, and I choke on those sort of things a bit.
• 42:11
  But then I get back to it.
• 42:14
  old ways and just get on with it again.
• 42:17
  We don't sit here dwelling about it.
• 42:20
  Okay, a couple while we're on that too.
• 42:22
  I mean, some beautiful photos that surround us, some beautiful memories, trophies, ribbons, you name it.
• 42:31
  Is there one in all the time that you cherish that you think, I mean, they're all special for different reasons, I'm sure.
• 42:38
  Yes, they are.
• 42:39
  But is there one that you feel like, wow, winning that or that was, you know, so rewarding or is there one that stands out?
• 42:47
  That Berthyrs Trophy out there would have to be the number one.
• 42:50
  Really?
• 42:51
  And number two would have to be that amazing race
• 43:01
  at Manfield when they lowered the lap record at every lap for the lap after lap after lap.
• 43:07
  One went fast and then the other did and the other did and the other did.
• 43:11
  Amazing.
• 43:13
  And I haven't seen many races like that again in my life of going to thousands of races, but...
• 43:23
  I have a different view about the trophies than most people, and I'm more aligned with the Denny and the Bruce sort of things, and that's why you most probably haven't seen it on the wall out there.
• 43:37
  But that was drummed into me very early on.
• 43:40
  You don't get hung up on that, do you?
• 43:41
  Is that what you're saying?
• 43:42
  Yeah, no one person...
• 43:44
  It's the driver and the team, and neither of them can do it without the other.
• 43:49
  And he, I don't know, he used to bring that up quite often.
• 43:54
  So the boys are now used to me saying the same thing.
• 43:57
  You know, some drivers think it's them, but I keep reminding them, even the truck driver who got the car here, he's also part of it, and so are all these people that do the wheels and do this, this and this.
• 44:10
  Exactly.
• 44:11
  You are the end result of it, but it's not just you.
• 44:16
  Integral.
• 44:17
  What about – do the cars become just tools for you and, you know, with each evolution they're better for their job, for their mission, and that's what they're built for?
• 44:27
  Or do you get –
• 44:28
  the odd attachment to one where you go, you know, that car for us was enormously special.
• 44:33
  Is there one or two cars that stand out for you?
• 44:35
  I think Mustang won because of how many race wins it had.
• 44:40
  This is the PDL stuff you're talking about now?
• 44:41
  Yeah, I think that's all there ever is.
• 44:45
  I don't know.
• 44:48
  It's something special because we...
• 44:55
  won so many races with it and trying situations.
• 44:58
  We had three, four drivers, three drivers that drove it.
• 45:05
  I was hands on because that time I was telling you when we picked the car up,
• 45:14
  The team was me.
• 45:16
  I drove the truck.
• 45:18
  I changed the tyres.
• 45:20
  I changed the engines.
• 45:22
  Murray Bunn helped us build engines, but when we were running out of money, I built the engines.
• 45:29
  I took the gearboxes out.
• 45:30
  There was no big team.
• 45:34
  Jandals come on board and work with us, but...
• 45:38
  He wasn't...
• 45:41
  He was like a timid mouse in those days.
• 45:43
  But, you know, when Joy and I were heading off to go to the racing, we'd have to drive the old Bedford, wherever it is around here somewhere.
• 45:53
  She would go... We drove up to Picton, all the way up to the north, do races, drive all the way home again.
• 46:02
  There was no big team.
• 46:05
  And that was...
• 46:07
  satisfying in some ways, but it certainly taught me how to respect what needs to be done.
• 46:15
  But I crack up when I see these guys, oh, I've got to have 12 guys on the car and all the rest of it.
• 46:21
  Yeah, right, yeah.
• 46:23
  So the Mustang was one.
• 46:24
  Was there another one that's been special for you, a little car, race car?
• 46:29
  Mm-hmm.
• 46:31
  Most probably the only other one that I have a bit of affection for is the first championship winning car, which is the old Speedway car.
• 46:41
  Yeah.
• 46:42
  Because that was… The beginning of it all.
• 46:45
  The beginning of it all and the camaraderie and those Speedway guys, they…
• 46:52
  And the way they're mates with each other, they get boozed on Saturday night after it's finished and then they fight each other and they think that's a great night.
• 47:02
  And that was too much.
• 47:05
  Joy was only 15 when I first met her and taking her to Speedway and explaining...
• 47:11
  the wind's blowing this way, so you have to sit the other end.
• 47:15
  And then I'd see her after.
• 47:17
  Covered in dust.
• 47:17
  And she'd be covered in cinders.
• 47:20
  And, of course, all the boys, I didn't.
• 47:24
  My mother said, how on earth did you get that girl?
• 47:30
  I mean, she was there from really right at the beginning.
• 47:34
  A constant.
• 47:35
  Yeah.
• 47:35
  A constant.
• 47:35
  And she's a constant now when I walk into the pit garage.
• 47:38
  I can hear her out there.
• 47:39
  Can you?
• 47:39
  Yeah, I can hear her.
• 47:41
  We'll finish up then so we can have a little wander outside.
• 47:44
  I want to finish with what you said a moment ago, really, and that is when we...
• 47:52
  I walked in with a microphone at Highlands to talk to you.
• 47:55
  It was a crazy race a couple of weeks ago for the National Endurance Crown.
• 48:00
  Red flagged, heavy rain, really an electric finish from a spectator standpoint and you were able, IMS was able to win it.
• 48:11
  And we might have started the interview and it went very briefly, but you got choked up.
• 48:15
  Just winning the most recent one meant as much as the first one, didn't it?
• 48:20
  Yeah, it does.
• 48:22
  That's just part of me.
• 48:27
  It's unusual because I'm hard on other things in business and all the rest of it, and yet I have a...
• 48:37
  An emotional side, mate.
• 48:38
  An emotional side that I can't control.
• 48:41
  But it's lovely though, mate.
• 48:42
  It's lovely.
• 48:43
  And you channel it beautifully into other things.
• 48:46
  You mentioned the scholarship before and how you've worked for 20 plus years in that area and helping unearth and assist young racers.
• 48:57
  Well, you look at the people that have been through the academy, Brendan Hartley,
• 49:03
  All those other superstars that you see overseas all come through that academy and sat at this desk and got interviewed.
• 49:13
  And all the records there of how we...
• 49:18
  See something in them.
• 49:19
  What do you see in them?
• 49:21
  When you look at them, what is it that you look for?
• 49:24
  I wish I could.
• 49:25
  I've been asked that heaps of times, but it's something in their eyes, something how they approach you.
• 49:32
  You can see the nervous, like...
• 49:36
  it would be good for you to come to the academy sometime down in Dunedin, but we have what's called the Lion's Den.
• 49:44
  And apart from all the other good things that they go through for that week, they have to put together during the week a sponsorship proposal and then they have to come and present it to me.
• 50:00
  And normally I have one of the lecturers from down there with us.
• 50:05
  And you watch these kids choke like I do.
• 50:11
  You see them put the worst proposals you've ever seen.
• 50:16
  And then now and again you see a gifted one that's, wow, are you sure you did this?
• 50:23
  I guess these days with electronics it's easy to...
• 50:27
  Ring home and get something done.
• 50:29
  But, you know, to have 130, I think it is, through, and I was there for the original one.
• 50:41
  That's as important to me as it is some of the races.
• 50:45
  Yes.
• 50:46
  Amazing.
• 50:46
  Amazing.
• 50:47
  Congratulations.
• 50:49
  This business is still doing some amazing things in the racing sense now.
• 50:52
  There are some wonderful memories around here that you should be immensely proud of, personally and professionally.
• 50:58
  I love the stuff that you've done with...
• 51:01
  apprentices through here giving them opportunity in the same way that you've given some great names in the driver's seat opportunity and that you're continuing to help unearth and and give a hand up the ladder to to youngsters coming through well done mate thank you
• 51:23
  Rusty's Garage is written and presented by me, Greg Rust.
• 51:27
  Series editor and producer is Thomas Dullard.
• 51:30
  Audio production by Link Kelly.
• 51:32
  If you've got a guest suggestion, get in touch with me via social media.
• 51:37
  The Garage, that's where a journey begins with a tank full of passion-fueled stories.