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Activists Around the World: Kitty Tsui · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Smantha. I'm welcome to stuff
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: we never told your production. I hurried here.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: And we are sliding into Pride Month for activists around
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: the world with a lesbian icon legend, y'all, and we
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: are talking about Kitty Sue. I'm gonna try to say
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: this name correct, y'all. Sue. I have a little of
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: a hard time with the ta, but yes, t s
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  Speaker 2: U I And she is, as I said, a lesbian
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  Speaker 2: icon who is also a writer, author, actor, poet, and bodybuilder.
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  Speaker 2: She's also been on TV like she actually has a
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  Speaker 2: whole documentary about her, which I feel like, you know,
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  Speaker 2: happens a lot. We talk about these amazing people and
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  Speaker 2: they're like, yeah, let's record her life. Yes, as they should.
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  Speaker 2: But anyway, coming back, So, she was born in Hong
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  Speaker 2: Kong and her parents actually left her under the care
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  Speaker 2: of her grandmother to build a better life for them
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: and her in London. So at the age of five,
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: she finally went to live with them in London, and
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: it was a decade later that she would move with
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  Speaker 2: her family to the US, to San Francisco specifically, and
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  Speaker 2: in an interview with Elders Project with Columbia university. She
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: talks a bit about her educational experience and her growing
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  Speaker 2: up and she says this, I had an English education.
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  Speaker 2: I had a British education. We had to I mean,
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  Speaker 2: math wasn't math, it was arithmetic, algebra, geometry, trigonometry, physics, chemistry,
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  Speaker 2: Latin for two years. So when I got here and
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  Speaker 2: it was all this multiple choice true falls. I mean
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  Speaker 2: my kindergarten, we already write essays, so we had to
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  Speaker 2: draw maps. And then she talks about her growing up
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  Speaker 2: with hippie friends. So I love her like jumping about.
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  Speaker 2: So this interview is very candid from her. It is
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  Speaker 2: like a podcast interview, so it is recorded, and when
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: she's speaking about these things, she's going down memory lane,
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  Speaker 2: and she has so many stories that she kind of
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  Speaker 2: jumps so in her story, I do the same thing.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: But if you've lived your life as iconically as she has,
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  Speaker 2: I think you have so many tales to tell. But
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: she does jump around. But she does talk about how
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: even in like middle school, coming into the US, she
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: kind of got into a hippie crowd that her family
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  Speaker 2: did not love. So she talks a lot about her
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  Speaker 2: childhood and teenage years, which she again a mess that
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  Speaker 2: she was a bit of a rebel, getting involved in
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  Speaker 2: drugs and partying, but also awakening into who she is.
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  Speaker 2: She talked about her experience watching protests that were occurring
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  Speaker 2: in the night sixties seventies, so at like Berkeley, in
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  Speaker 2: the different schools in San Francisco in California, and how
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  Speaker 2: just watching these things she knew she was going to
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  Speaker 2: these same schools. She saw the power behind these student strikes.
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  Speaker 2: And at the same time she also talked about her
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  Speaker 2: coming out. So this is from that same interview. I
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  Speaker 2: took communications. It was in that department that we took
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  Speaker 2: a class with Sally Miller Gearhart, and apparently, I believe
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  Speaker 2: she's a pretty big lesbian con who tenured. Was one
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  Speaker 2: of the first people lesbians two tenure. And it was
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  Speaker 2: in this class. I mean, Sally Gearhart was just the
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  Speaker 2: force of nature. She was an open lesbian. She was
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  Speaker 2: the first who got tenured ever, I mean the first.
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  Speaker 2: It was in her class that I came out. I
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: was bisexual for about one minute and then she goes yes,
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  Speaker 2: and then my career in lesbianism began. I think. In
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: her conversation and talking about this, she talks about how
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: she considered herself bisexual because he heaps easier than saying lesbian,
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  Speaker 2: but kind of realized, no, I never was. I was
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  Speaker 2: always attracted to women, so I can't really claim that.
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  Speaker 2: But in that moment, that was her coming out slowly
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  Speaker 2: baby steps for her. So in another article written about her,
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  Speaker 2: she talks about how it was difficult for her to
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  Speaker 2: come out at first. So this is from Beijing Times
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  Speaker 2: dot Com. In nineteen seventy three, at the tender age
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  Speaker 2: of twenty one, at Kitty Suey, a creative writing student
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  Speaker 2: at San Francisco State University, made the brave decision to
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  Speaker 2: publicly identify as a lesbian. This revelation was not greeted
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  Speaker 2: with acceptance from her family, friends, or the Chinese American
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  Speaker 2: community she was a part of as a political activist. Instead,
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  Speaker 2: she found herself isolated and rejected, so she made sure
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  Speaker 2: that she came out. I think it was one of
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  Speaker 2: those moments that she really kind of got the titleist
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  Speaker 2: the first in her time to come out openly as
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  Speaker 2: a lesbian, as a Chinese American, So it was a
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  Speaker 2: pretty big deal, especially if you understand Chinese culture today
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  Speaker 2: even and how that can be dangerous in doing so
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  Speaker 2: and then if her family were a part of those
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  Speaker 2: old school traditions, which they were, they're not very accepting
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  Speaker 2: of it. But with all that, she was able to
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  Speaker 2: find a group of people who not only accepted her,
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  Speaker 2: but understood her as well. She would soon begin the
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  Speaker 2: Asian American women's performance group Unbound Feet. And here's a
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  Speaker 2: bit more from her interview. It was probably mid to
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  Speaker 2: late nineteen seventies that a few of us came together.
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  Speaker 2: We were thinking about forming a women's group, an Asian
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  Speaker 2: women's group, and there were enough people, and then Unbound
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  Speaker 2: Feet happened. It was the first Chinese American women's performance
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  Speaker 2: group in the Bay Area. We started in nineteen seventy nine,
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  Speaker 2: and we drew large crowds. I think API women were
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  Speaker 2: drawn to it because of who we are, but fairly
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  Speaker 2: soon they realized there were a lot of APIs out there,
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  Speaker 2: so it began to be a place where we could
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  Speaker 2: find friends and also date. So Unbound Feet we were
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  Speaker 2: together from nineteen seventy nine to nineteen eighty one, and
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  Speaker 2: API Asian Pacific Islanders, y'all didn't no. And she continues
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  Speaker 2: talking about some of her favorite memories. She says to
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  Speaker 2: be with a group of Asian lesbians, Asian women, to
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  Speaker 2: be able to read our own stuff, to work on
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  Speaker 2: our own stuff, to do some things together, and then
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  Speaker 2: to be on stage. We do completely different things. We
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  Speaker 2: had dialogues, we had monologues, we had poetry, Kenyon Sam
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  Speaker 2: did commercial parodies. So then the groups of APIs then
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  Speaker 2: started growing, and we started a group called Asian Sisters,
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  Speaker 2: and there were a few other groups in our groups
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  Speaker 2: with different names and different people. We started having these
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  Speaker 2: wonderful meetings in the park. I love that. I love
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  Speaker 2: of reminiscing about college times when you just formed groups
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  Speaker 2: like you could just do this and find commaderie in
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  Speaker 2: such a way that really built your background, really built
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  Speaker 2: who you were as an adult, and really taught you
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  Speaker 2: who you were as an adult. Yes, even if it's
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  Speaker 2: a Christian group that I would run away from later.
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  Speaker 1: On, it's a transformative time and time of learning.
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  Speaker 2: Sure. Yes. So in her conversation, she talks about how
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  Speaker 2: for a while she thought she was alone and there
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  Speaker 2: were no other Asian lesbians out there, but realizing through
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  Speaker 2: these groups that there were those who understood her, but
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  Speaker 2: it wasn't managed that she really felt isolated and she
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  Speaker 2: would just clean to her books and to the authors
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  Speaker 2: to feel that less isolated. And she even talked about
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  Speaker 2: the fact that as an Asian woman, it was still
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  Speaker 2: hard to find canarderie because even these books were written
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  Speaker 2: a lot of by white people, and it wasn't the
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  Speaker 2: same for her, especially with her immigrant background, coming from
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  Speaker 2: one area to another, living with her grandmother in Hong Kong,
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  Speaker 2: which she did talk about as pretty formative, and how
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: her grandmother was her mother and father for so long
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: that she missed that, but she learned from her. So
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  Speaker 2: her love of writing in books would soon lead to
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  Speaker 2: her writing her first book titled Words of a Woman
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  Speaker 2: who Breaths Fire, which I love that title.
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  Speaker 1: It's a great title, that's a powerful.
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  Speaker 2: Title, which is considered one of the first known Chinese
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  Speaker 2: American lesbian books out there. But of course this isn't
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  Speaker 2: her only works. No, this is a little bit from
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  Speaker 2: Asian Pacific Islander queerwomen in Transgender Community dot Org, they
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  Speaker 2: write her nineteen eighty three ground breaking Words of a
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  Speaker 2: Woman who Breeds Fire was the first book by Chinese
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  Speaker 2: American lesbian. Her second, breathless Erotica, won the Firecracker Alternative
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  Speaker 2: Book Award. Her third sparks Fly was pinned by her
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  Speaker 2: alter ego, Eric Norton, a gay leather man.
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  Speaker 1: Leather man, leatherman, I think you put a little too
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  Speaker 1: much emphasis on leather, but like leather.
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  Speaker 2: Man, yeah, go with it. Her writing has been collected
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  Speaker 2: in over seven anthologies worldwide and been published in German,
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  Speaker 2: Japanese and Italian. She also has published different news articles
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  Speaker 2: or magazines and such, so she has tons of stuff
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  Speaker 2: out there. And again we already know she has done
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  Speaker 2: so many other things, including acting, which she debuted with
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  Speaker 2: Paper Angels, an Asian American theater company, and she got
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  Speaker 2: some accolades for her acting, and she definitely didn't hold
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  Speaker 2: back in the theater world. After being cast as an
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  Speaker 2: Asian maid who could read fortunes and wrinkle sheets, which,
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: by the way, what is this plot for another company,
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  Speaker 2: she called them out for the stereotyping and that ended
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  Speaker 2: up causing her to be fired, but she stood her ground,
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  Speaker 2: saying this is ridiculously racist. I think they made her
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  Speaker 2: do an accent too. She's like come on now, yeah,
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: come on now, and she got ostracized for that, but
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  Speaker 2: she stood her ground, which we love to see. But
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  Speaker 2: again that wasn't her only acting bits. You can see
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  Speaker 2: her on different platforms as well. But again, like I said,
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  Speaker 2: she has a documentary out there titled Nice Chinese Girls
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: Don't And it's kind of frames lesbian fashion and women
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: of God and like follows her stories around. And she
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  Speaker 2: also has another one that does tell her story through
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  Speaker 2: her poetry then her writings. So it's very cool. Another
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  Speaker 2: add to the list, any Yeah, including all these books.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know a lot coming from this one.
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: Erotica might be a step up. That would have to
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  Speaker 2: be RPG thirteen addition.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, hey, Sminty after Dark. Yeah, we've been pitching that
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: for years.
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  Speaker 2: It's true, it is true, it's time and among other things.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: After the death of her friend one of her good friends,
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: Suey started her journey in bodybuilding. She actually won the
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: bronze medal in the nineteen eighty six Gay Games, which
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: I didn't know existed. Were at the twelfth Gay Games,
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: which is happening in Valencia right now this year, So
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: we're gonna have talk about that because I didn't know
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  Speaker 2: that existed, which is amazing, but she won the bronze
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: for that, and then in nineteen ninety she actually won
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: gold in the games for women's physique and bodybuilding. If
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: you see pictures over your like, dang, yeah, she looked good.
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  Speaker 2: She's built, she is cut. And among all of this,
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: she has, of course all kinds of accolades throughout her life,
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  Speaker 2: including in twenty sixteen, she was given the Asian Pacific
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  Speaker 2: Islander quer Women Transgender Communities Phoenix Award for her contributions
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  Speaker 2: to San Francisco She's In twenty nineteen, she was one
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  Speaker 2: of the twelve queer poets from the United States honored
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: in the digital exhibit at the Smithsonian Asian Pacific American Center,
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: which was titled A Day in the Life of a
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: Queer Asian Pacific America. And then the Lembda Literary Foundation
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: has listed her as one of the fifty most influential
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: lesbian and gay writers in the US. Of course, and
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  Speaker 2: that's just a few of them. And of course, with
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  Speaker 2: a poet as beautiful as her writing, we decided we
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: have to end it on a poem. So Anie and
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  Speaker 2: I are going to recite her poem Without Love. Here
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: we go. I cannot do without love the way I
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: make myself do without food or sleep or sex. I
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  Speaker 2: cannot do without love.
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  Speaker 1: Sometimes I rummage through my papers, tensils of dreams, thoughts
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  Speaker 1: from long ago. Want to throw everything out but can't.
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  Speaker 2: Did my laundry, red doors, lessing on the stairs and
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  Speaker 2: the sun, the one about a man and two women.
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  Speaker 1: Last night in your arms, a whisper in my ear.
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  Speaker 1: See how your heart beats hard like a hammer?
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  Speaker 2: What are you thinking about? Your so far away?
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: How fun for breakfast? Steaming and rice bowls, snow heavy
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: on the trees like icing on a cake.
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  Speaker 2: Your lover calls every night, demanding to know if I'm
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: still here, and why the hell am I still here?
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: I cannot do without love. I love good poems. Yeah,
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: we're gonna have to come back and read some of
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: her iconic works. I didn't add this, but in nineteen
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: eighty eight she came out as a leather woman and
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: has some books on that as well. So and she said,
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: I believe some keynote speaking about this converse, like what
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: this life is about? What that life? Because I was like,
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: what is this? Very cool?
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Quite a catalog, a lot of accomplishments, yes, and
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: a lot to learn, plus a poem. It's been a
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: long time since we've recited a poem. I know, that
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: was nice.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: Gotta do more.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, well listeners. If you have any thoughts about
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: this episode or who we should be talking about next,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: please let us know. You can email us at Hello
• 12:28
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• 12:40
  Speaker 1: It's always to our super producer Chandler and our executive
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: producer Maya.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: Thank you and.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: Thanks to you for listening Stuff I'll Never Told You
• 12:46
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  Speaker 2: NA three and one and a
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  Speaker 1: One year at