Latest / Becker’s Healthcare Digital Health + Health IT / Dr. K. David Bailey, Chief Nursing Officer at UCLA Health - Santa Monica Medical Center and Adjunct Assistant Professor at UCLA School of Nursing

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Dr. K. David Bailey, Chief Nursing Officer at UCLA Health - Santa Monica Medical Center and Adjunct Assistant Professor at UCLA School of Nursing · Becker’s Healthcare Digital Health + Health IT

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1:27
This is Laura Dierdo
1:29
with the Becker's
1:31
Healthcare podcast. I'm thrilled today to be joined
1:34
by doctor k David Bailey,
1:38
chief nursing officer at UCLA Health Santa Monica
1:41
Medical Center and adjunct assistant professor at UCLA
1:44
School of Nursing.
1:45
Doctor Bailey, it's a pleasure to have you
1:46
on the podcast today.
1:48
Thank you so much for the opportunity. I
1:50
look forward to spending some time with you.
1:52
Now I think this will be a great
1:54
conversation. I know nursing is such a big
1:56
topic right now, and so many health systems
1:58
and organizations are trying to find innovative ways
2:01
to really,
2:03
lift up their nursing organization. So I'm excited
2:05
to learn more about what you're doing at
2:07
Santa Monica Medical Center. But before we dive
2:09
into my questions, can you tell us a
2:10
little bit more about yourself and your background?
2:13
Sure. Happy to, Laura. Thank you.
2:16
So I have been a nurse for for
2:17
multiple decades, and I have
2:19
been at the Santa Monica campus for a
2:21
little over a decade at this point
2:23
and have been in the chief nursing role
2:25
for over 8 years at this point.
2:28
But in addition to my role as the
2:31
chief nurse, I have also,
2:34
professionally involved in the sense of having led
2:37
a professional organization.
2:38
And it really to me was a compliment
2:41
of what I do.
2:42
I was the, I'm the immediate past president
2:44
of the Association For Leadership Science in Nursing.
2:46
And that really is that bridge
2:48
between academia
2:50
and practice.
2:51
And with me sitting on both sides of
2:53
that, I really felt that I needed to
2:55
be more involved professionally.
2:57
And that is why I chose
3:00
that I am and chose to be
3:03
a board member in that organization
3:05
as I continued
3:07
to push that boundary between the 2.
3:10
Years passed,
3:12
for most academic and practice partners, those were
3:14
very different paths.
3:16
But we cannot do this alone.
3:18
We have to have our academic practice partners
3:21
to make this work,
3:22
because you need this for centers of innovation,
3:25
for research, for expansion,
3:28
for really trying new models of care. And
3:30
so that is really what I do between
3:34
trying to bridge that academic private partnership. So
3:36
I appreciate that opportunity to share that background.
3:40
Absolutely.
3:40
You know, and your point is so well
3:42
taken that having those partnerships today between the
3:45
academic side and the,
3:47
you know, provider side on the front lines,
3:49
it can really make a big difference in
3:50
how you're growing and developing for the future.
3:53
So,
3:53
that that's really fascinating and cool to see
3:56
that you're able to bridge that gap. Now
3:58
from your perspective, what are some of the
3:59
biggest issues that you're following in health care
4:01
right now?
4:03
So, really, I mean, I can share some
4:05
from my own organization, but I'm pretty well
4:08
connected across the country and with colleagues, you
4:10
know, chief nurses and other
4:13
leaders across the country,
4:14
we continue to face
4:16
workforce challenges. While I sit in a pretty
4:19
good spot at this point,
4:21
it hasn't always been that way. You know,
4:23
when you look back in 2 years ago
4:25
in 22,
4:27
I really
4:28
was,
4:29
had a shortage that I had never experienced
4:32
in this organization.
4:33
But it was really a time when people,
4:36
okay, the acute phase of the pandemic is
4:38
over.
4:39
I'm going to go do something else. And,
4:41
you know, we have recovered from that. But
4:43
many of my contemporaries across the country have
4:46
not. And they are still facing,
4:49
big shortages
4:50
with high volumes.
4:52
They are
4:53
relying heavily on temporary staff and we do
4:56
need our partners that run the temporary staffing
4:59
organizations.
5:00
But when you are looking at significant
5:04
backdrops
5:05
of temporary staff,
5:07
you have to look at where's the balance
5:09
of stabilization and what's an appropriate amount to
5:12
have. And many of my colleagues across the
5:14
country are continuing to struggle with that. So
5:16
I think as we continue to march down
5:19
this path,
5:20
we in nursing, but also our partners and
5:23
our intercollaborative
5:24
partners and our interdisciplinary
5:26
partners,
5:27
they too are facing these shortages. I'm talking
5:30
my medical colleagues,
5:32
all types of therapies,
5:34
our unlicensed staff. And so, you know, when
5:37
you can put burgers
5:39
in a in a place
5:41
and a nursing assistant
5:43
makes the same amount of money
5:45
for less challenges and less threats, lots of
5:48
risk,
5:50
where's the choice there? And so I think
5:52
we
5:53
as healthcare leaders, healthcare organizations,
5:57
have to continue to
5:59
push the boundaries
6:00
of what can our teams do, how can
6:03
we do it differently,
6:04
how do we build our pipelines,
6:07
through
6:08
enhancing
6:09
the academic practice, partnerships with multiple organizations, not
6:13
just one. How do you because you have
6:15
to have the different therapies or the the
6:17
different disciplines in place. And how do you
6:19
continue to build those and create new models
6:22
of care?
6:23
That is what we are doing, but also
6:26
many places in the country are looking at
6:28
how do we do things differently because we
6:30
can't continue to do it the way we
6:33
used to do it.
6:34
Some of the other things that we are
6:36
facing,
6:37
across the country
6:39
are people only working a few years in
6:41
one place versus in my generation from years
6:45
ago,
6:45
we would stay many years, sometimes 8, 10,
6:49
20 plus,
6:51
in an organization.
6:52
And that is not what our current,
6:54
the newer generation is doing. That is no
6:58
slam against them at all. It's really just
7:01
a new
7:02
situation. And I don't even want to call
7:03
it a challenge. It's a new opportunity
7:06
for us to embrace.
7:08
But we have to look back at what's
7:09
the real reason why people are doing that
7:12
and living the shorter tenure or working the
7:14
shorter tenures.
7:15
Is it because we're not giving them the
7:17
flexibility?
7:18
Is it we are not challenging them enough?
7:20
Are we not mentoring them enough? Do they
7:23
not have
7:25
developmental opportunities to grow within the organization? And
7:28
they're looking those ex looking for those externally.
7:31
I think we have to continue to ask
7:33
those important questions.
7:35
What what is the reason for this?
7:37
I think, you know, some people have looked
7:40
back and think, well, this is the way
7:41
we've always done it. Well, that really, unfortunately,
7:44
is a term that we are going to
7:46
have to get rid of in health care
7:48
because it's not the same anymore. I
7:50
mean, when you look at, some of my
7:52
contemporaries across the country,
7:54
they have an entirely new workforce every 3
7:57
to 4 years.
7:58
I mean, that is scary
8:00
on some levels. And how do you come
8:02
in and stabilize
8:04
that the cost of turnover
8:07
and to ensure
8:09
that you're meeting
8:10
patient outcomes,
8:12
patient satisfaction,
8:13
organizational
8:14
outcomes
8:15
and really thriving
8:18
slash surviving in these turbulent times. So I
8:21
think those are some of the other things.
8:23
Another big one for all of us across
8:26
the country
8:27
is workplace violence.
8:29
That
8:30
is a situation
8:32
that if I even think back pre pandemic,
8:34
those were rare events.
8:37
Today, those are daily events in every healthcare
8:40
organization across the country. And sometimes it's multiple
8:42
events in a day.
8:44
Sometimes it's as simple as an argument.
8:47
And I'm talking this can be staff to
8:49
staff, this can be patient or slash family
8:53
to staff,
8:54
interdisciplinary
8:55
conflict. So it can really come from many,
8:57
many angles.
8:58
So I think we,
9:00
as healthcare leaders and not only in nursing,
9:03
we are the largest workforce. So we have
9:05
the largest
9:06
share of this. But we have to really
9:08
look at
9:10
how do we continue to move forward through
9:12
the path
9:14
of decreasing
9:16
workplace violence
9:17
and building
9:19
teams
9:20
that can be resilient during that while we're
9:22
trying to eliminate one thing,
9:25
how do we build teams to survive in
9:27
that
9:28
unstable workforce?
9:30
Unfortunately, our society is more unstable now than
9:32
I've ever experienced.
9:34
And people feel it's okay to take it
9:36
out on the people that are providing care.
9:38
Well, that's not okay. And I think organizations
9:41
will have to continue
9:43
to enforce
9:46
situations, parameters,
9:47
guidelines
9:48
on on how we're gonna handle that and
9:50
really resituating
9:52
this of what's appropriate and what's not appropriate.
9:56
I I have colleagues across the country that
9:58
have just faced some horrific events,
10:01
with this. I've had certainly my own challenges
10:03
locally. But I do think that this is
10:06
a place where there will need to be
10:08
constant attention.
10:09
Because when you shift that and move it
10:12
and and you're striving to move it
10:14
to an environment where people want to be
10:16
and where people want to work and thrive,
10:19
and we really turn that a healthy
10:23
work environment,
10:24
well, that that that is those are 2
10:27
very, very different ends of that equation.
10:29
And so we have to continue to move
10:31
our efforts.
10:32
Now internally for us, we have created
10:36
a pretty significant program,
10:39
that's about a year old. It's not to
10:41
say that, we haven't done other things along
10:43
the way, but we really launched a large
10:46
model, and it's called a Safer U program.
10:48
And it really looks at how do you
10:50
prepare staff
10:52
to be prepared for situations.
10:54
And we have sent most of our staff
10:56
at this point through crisis prevention intervention
10:59
training. And that is really a model of
11:01
de escalation.
11:02
How do you do that? So, but we
11:05
are looking at ways, how do we take
11:07
and even enhance that program
11:09
for people to really be able to navigate
11:12
through the situation,
11:14
whether it's a verbal
11:16
or other altercation.
11:18
And how do we do that? So we
11:20
really have learned about,
11:24
setting parameters better. How do we have these
11:27
difficult conversations with patients and our families
11:30
and setting limits?
11:32
And when I think back
11:34
into
11:35
my own clinical career and even my earlier
11:37
leadership career, these are not conversations we had
11:40
to have with patients and our families.
11:43
So I think this will continue to be
11:46
a struggle for quite a while. And, you
11:48
know, certainly, the the pandemic
11:52
illuminated
11:53
the mental health crisis in our country. And
11:55
I do think as we continue to struggle
11:58
with that, it also escalated
12:01
the unhealth population.
12:03
And I think as we continue as organizations
12:06
to try to
12:09
remedy some of those,
12:11
we will continue to face many of these
12:13
challenges. So I think, and to me, some
12:15
of this is not only health care.
12:18
Our communities
12:20
are are we're gonna need further state local,
12:23
state, and federal
12:25
support to do some of this to really
12:27
help
12:28
people move from an unhealth situation
12:31
instead of using the emergency room as their
12:33
primary care setting into other models.
12:36
And we are working on some of that
12:38
now. We've created a band program here
12:40
to really look at, and that band program
12:43
is staffed with clinicians.
12:45
And they are going out into those unhoused
12:48
areas
12:49
to look at and see how they can
12:51
support,
12:52
patients
12:53
or individuals
12:55
who need
12:56
primary care. So I think, you know, other
12:58
places are trying similar models.
13:00
I think we have to embrace innovation.
13:03
Because like I shared a few minutes ago,
13:04
what we've always done, we can't continue to
13:07
do that because it's not working anymore. So
13:09
we have to embrace innovation. And I think,
13:11
you know, a lot of people are scared
13:12
of that work.
13:14
But we have to embrace this. We have
13:16
to look at how do we allow technology
13:19
to come into innovation? How do we allow
13:21
technology to support us?
13:23
How do we allow
13:27
artificial intelligence
13:28
to come in to our our
13:30
model?
13:32
Clearly, there's a lot of dialogue out there
13:34
right now.
13:35
What's safe and what's not safe? How do
13:37
we incorporate that? So, you know, our EMR,
13:41
company is All Star Electra Medical Record. They
13:44
are, you know, looking at how do they
13:46
improve this. We're looking at that. But so
13:48
are all of my contemporaries across the country.
13:52
How do we do this and how do
13:53
we do it better? How do we improve
13:56
care? How do we use that as an
13:57
earlier warning system? And how do we do
14:00
this to really
14:02
streamline care
14:04
from the acute care side, but also the
14:06
primary care side in the the post acute
14:08
world. So I think we have to continue
14:11
to to do all of that with our
14:12
inter collaborative partners.
14:15
That makes a lot of sense. And, you
14:16
know, that's really fascinating to hear,
14:20
everything that you're faced with and dealing with
14:22
from, you know, some of the clinician shortages
14:26
and trying to, bring on additional
14:28
providers and and then, 2,
14:31
collaborating
14:32
across the board and developing new partnerships
14:35
to troubleshoot some of these challenges. I think,
14:38
you know, it's just so fascinating to hear
14:40
about, some of the different generational,
14:43
preferences as well as how they're looking into
14:45
the workforce, what really, you know, different people
14:47
are needing in different points of their careers.
14:49
And so I appreciate you talking through that
14:51
as well as the workplace violence issues and
14:53
solutions that you've seen work really well. I
14:55
think it's just really an important time in
14:58
health care to troubleshoot all of those issues.
15:00
So,
15:01
it's great to hear that there are some
15:03
really, really cool things that are being done,
15:06
to to attack those, challenges. Now from your
15:10
perspective and looking ahead, what are you most
15:12
excited about, and what makes you nervous?
15:15
Excellent question.
15:17
And, really, the few items I'm gonna share
15:20
could really be situated in either bucket.
15:23
They may they excite me,
15:25
but because of the unknown,
15:28
untried,
15:29
or
15:30
just the newness of it, then there's also
15:33
that flan of nervousness of all this work.
15:35
So some of the things that that I
15:37
am excited about is really
15:40
how do we,
15:42
as health care teams across this country and
15:45
really beyond our own boundaries of our our
15:47
country,
15:48
how do we continue to improve care?
15:50
And we are doing some exciting work locally
15:54
of
15:55
looking at how do we best situate patients
16:00
to be their their best selves
16:03
and the environments where they choose to live.
16:05
And and that sounds like a lot, but
16:08
let me back up and give you a
16:09
little bit of a backdrop.
16:11
We, as an organization, have done a great
16:13
deal of work around our readmission efforts.
16:16
And we really never did that because we
16:18
had a big problem. Our numbers were really
16:20
below the national,
16:23
sort of where the country sits at this
16:25
point with readmissions.
16:27
But we decided to do that because it's
16:29
the right thing to do. And we've been
16:32
on this journey for 7 years. And I
16:34
was at that sort of the forefront of
16:35
that with some of my qualities,
16:38
leaders.
16:39
And now fast forward through the years of
16:42
this work, we really have
16:44
handled
16:46
and moved through some of those earlier challenges.
16:50
Today,
16:51
when you look at through the lens
16:54
of health equity,
16:57
we are beginning to do a lot of
16:59
work in this area and I am helping
17:01
co lead that and I'm excited about this
17:03
work.
17:04
But when
17:05
you step back and you look at that
17:07
broader
17:08
lens of what is equitable care,
17:12
you know, and just, you know, looking through
17:14
that diversity lens,
17:17
it has really been a huge eye opener
17:19
for me
17:20
as well as my organization,
17:22
but also
17:23
for for many of my colleagues across the
17:26
country.
17:27
Because when you look at
17:29
health equity,
17:30
we are not all situated the same. We're
17:33
not all paid the same. We all don't
17:35
have the same background. And I'm talking
17:38
our ethnic background, our racial background, our cultural
17:41
background.
17:42
But yet we have to look at every
17:45
element
17:46
of who makes the fabric up of that
17:49
individual.
17:50
And then it's only when you do that
17:54
and you step in and really support
17:57
that person in their time of need? And
17:59
helping situate them and prepare them to be
18:00
able to take care of themselves and
18:03
or their family member at home. So we
18:05
are beginning to do a lot of work
18:08
in this area. But
18:11
I can honestly say
18:13
I have peeled a few onions, you know,
18:16
metaphorically in my life. This is probably one
18:18
of the more complex
18:20
onions with so many levels and layers,
18:25
to really look at
18:27
how do you do this and how do
18:29
you educate patients
18:30
and really looking at that. And you have
18:33
to look through their
18:34
literacy lens. You have to look through
18:39
their ethnic background. You have to look through
18:42
their primary
18:43
initial their their initial language, or is English
18:46
the second language, and really look and do
18:49
this. You know, interpretive services, you know, years
18:52
ago, I would say they were rarely used.
18:55
Today they are sitting at the forefront of
18:57
care and they have to be. Because
19:00
in the city where I live,
19:03
we have every culture, almost every culture in
19:05
the world
19:06
is also here. And so we have to
19:09
be prepared to meet those individuals in the
19:11
languages they
19:13
choose to learn in.
19:14
And they ideally would do that in their
19:16
native language. And how do you do that?
19:19
And that is a resource commitment, but it
19:22
is a commitment we have made to do
19:24
the right thing.
19:25
And so as we continue to look at
19:27
that,
19:28
I think this will be a long journey.
19:30
And I'm not saying a long journey for
19:32
for my organization. I'm saying a long journey
19:35
for the world.
19:36
Because
19:37
when you look at
19:39
health literacy
19:41
and when you look at the communities in
19:43
which people live, and sometimes it used to
19:45
be by city
19:46
or zip code,
19:48
Now it could be down to
19:51
the the the narrow window
19:53
of a neighborhood
19:54
and a ZIP code or a block,
19:57
a city block in a neighbor in a
19:59
in a city.
20:00
So it it really has opened my eyes.
20:04
And I'm starting to see,
20:06
colleagues across the country have the same experience.
20:09
And, you know, thankfully there's some ahead of
20:11
us and many are behind us. But I
20:13
think as we all do through this work
20:15
together,
20:16
it really just illustrates that need
20:19
on how do you meet that person
20:21
where they are today.
20:23
So that is exciting.
20:24
It's not scary to me,
20:27
but
20:28
it will
20:30
continue to require
20:31
a great deal of resources
20:34
to make sure that we're doing it well
20:36
and doing it right.
20:38
And that people recognize
20:41
we care about them as an individual
20:44
and not as a number.
20:45
And I'm not saying that's what we do.
20:46
That's not it at all. But how do
20:49
we move to that
20:51
person,
20:52
that individual,
20:54
knowing that we care about them
20:56
and how are we meeting their needs
20:58
where they are at this point?
21:00
I think we have to continue
21:03
down a path of moving from
21:06
reactive care
21:07
on the acute care side of
21:09
our healthcare systems across the globe
21:12
to a proactive care. And I have
21:15
talked about that for a long time, but
21:18
we have always been to the or most
21:21
organizations and most communities live on the reactive
21:23
side of care. We'll just go to the
21:24
ER, go to the hospital.
21:27
Well, if you can start looking ahead
21:30
and really doing it proactively
21:33
and doing it in the primary care model,
21:36
and it and it saddens me that so
21:39
many other
21:41
organized and, you know, well recognized countries in
21:44
the world
21:46
have done so much better than we have
21:47
here in the United States.
21:49
And so my hope is that we
21:51
it's exciting, but it's also scary that we
21:54
are this far behind. And my hope is
21:57
that we
21:58
as
21:59
healthcare leaders and nursing leaders, because I do
22:01
believe nursing can be at the center of
22:04
this movement
22:05
to help us move this
22:07
forward across the globe
22:09
in our communities, but also beyond
22:12
on how we move back to a community
22:14
health model
22:16
to really educate patients and their
22:20
and our community members, I should say, is
22:22
probably the better term there,
22:24
in the schools, in their churches, in their
22:27
homes,
22:29
so that we can
22:30
not have so many
22:33
bad outcomes because people didn't know they had
22:35
heart disease,
22:36
or they were at a risk for stroke
22:38
or they had diabetes
22:40
or whatever
22:41
long term, you know,
22:44
medical condition they may have. And it's untreated
22:46
because people didn't go to primary care.
22:49
And I think, you know, during that
22:52
earlier year, year and a half of the
22:54
pandemic, it illustrated people weren't seeking care. And
22:57
now we all are experiencing, including the individuals
23:00
who have the diseases,
23:02
we are experiencing
23:03
all of that with them now. And I
23:05
think we
23:06
will be faced with continuing to manage that
23:09
for a long time.
23:11
I do think, and this really to me
23:12
sits on both sides of the equation of
23:15
exciting but scary,
23:16
embracing
23:17
artificial intelligence more. I think
23:20
we will continue to see that
23:22
integrated into our schools,
23:24
our educational programs for health care team members,
23:28
but also into care. And how are we
23:30
going to do that and embrace that further?
23:33
I am a little nervous though.
23:35
When you hear of these situations where students
23:38
have submitted
23:39
papers that were only generated through
23:42
chat GPT or some of the other artificial
23:45
intelligence. That's scary.
23:47
And how do we as health care leaders
23:50
differentiate
23:51
what is safe and not safe? So to
23:53
me, this one sits on both sides.
23:56
I think the workforce challenges continue to make
23:58
me nervous,
23:59
in the sense of
24:02
will we have enough people
24:05
excited to be health care providers,
24:08
health care team members
24:10
based on what they're seeing, how people are
24:13
treated based on some of the things we
24:15
talked about in the last item, the workplace
24:17
violence.
24:18
And when you look at that and, and,
24:20
you know, some of the, the portrayals
24:23
in the media of what nurses do,
24:26
that is not what we do for the
24:28
most part.
24:29
And when, you know, they show people, you
24:31
know,
24:32
dressed in mini skirts and saving everybody's life
24:35
and things like that, those are not true
24:37
portrayals. And it saddens me. I mean, I
24:39
don't watch healthcare shows for that very reason.
24:42
Because
24:43
it's portrayed that it's all glorified and you
24:46
just run-in and do something and the person
24:48
is healed. But we all know that that
24:51
are on this side of the equation. That's
24:52
not real. And how do we
24:56
increase
24:57
the professional nurses'
24:59
identity?
25:00
How do we increase
25:02
the level of respect that a nurse should
25:05
receive?
25:06
So I think those will continue to be
25:08
challenges.
25:09
And those make me nervous because
25:12
who
25:13
is doing that marketing for us? It should
25:16
be us and not others. But we have
25:19
to step in as nurses and and health
25:21
care leaders to help do that.
25:23
So I sort of tried to give you
25:25
a mix of, the nervous and what make
25:27
what I'm excited about. But some of those
25:29
really are situated on both sides of that
25:31
equation.
25:33
It really makes a lot of sense. And,
25:34
you know, what a great overview in terms
25:36
of all the different ways that,
25:38
health care providers are integrating into the system,
25:41
how you can use technology and other things
25:44
in order to tackle some of the health
25:46
equity issues, but also, you know, wanting to
25:48
make sure, you know, that,
25:50
what the medical system is doing and can
25:52
do is portrayed accurately, I think, is a
25:54
100% a huge huge challenge and something, you
25:57
know,
25:58
I can imagine clinicians and organizations face every
26:01
day.
26:02
Now before we wrap up here with our
26:03
last minute or 2, I'm wondering if you
26:05
could talk about,
26:06
leadership.
26:07
What is most essential for health care leaders
26:09
to be successful over the next 2 to
26:11
3 years or so?
26:13
Laura, thank you so much for the question.
26:15
And this is really important work to me.
26:17
In fact, I have some,
26:19
a lot of work going on right now
26:22
looking at
26:25
what are the ideal leadership traits
26:28
that make it work.
26:31
And so I am working with a small
26:33
group or have been working with a small
26:34
group of individuals
26:36
looking at because there's many leadership styles,
26:39
but we have coined the term
26:41
relational leadership.
26:43
Because, you know, when you look at it,
26:44
and I sort of compare this to Maslow's
26:46
hierarchy.
26:47
If you don't have some fundamental
26:50
elements of leadership,
26:52
those are trust, those are communication,
26:54
and able to to establish,
26:57
nurture,
26:58
and build relationships,
27:00
if you don't have those three elements, the
27:01
rest of it is really not gonna work.
27:03
And so
27:05
I believe the leaders that will continue to
27:07
make a difference
27:09
have some
27:10
form. Now there's many under many
27:14
identified leadership traits or or styles under that.
27:17
You'll have transformational, but that could be or
27:20
could not be. You have servant, you have
27:22
humble, you have authentic, leadership.
27:25
When you look at that, I like to
27:27
broaden the term out to relational leadership. Because
27:30
if you don't have those fundamental
27:31
elements that people trust you
27:34
and,
27:35
that you can have that relationship with and
27:38
you can communicate with them well, and
27:42
you have to be willing
27:44
to nurture and mentor them
27:47
to to grow.
27:48
When you can't do that,
27:51
it really makes me worry about an individual's
27:54
leadership path. And so I think
27:57
those
27:58
individuals
27:59
that do have adopt, develop, and you can
28:02
put whatever, you know, sort of word in
28:04
there, but
28:06
or or verb in there,
28:08
those leaders that have the capacity
28:10
to embrace
28:12
a relational leadership style,
28:14
I think, will outperform
28:17
most of the other leadership styles.
28:19
Because I think it's gonna take that foundational
28:22
work for a leader
28:24
to create the culture where people wanna be,
28:27
where people can thrive,
28:29
to create that healthy work environment where individuals
28:33
wanna come to work and not dread coming
28:35
to work. So I think that is to
28:38
me is just foundational.
28:40
And that's why I've chosen to do some
28:42
work in that. I've spent a couple of
28:43
years doing that and will continue to do
28:45
that because I do think it's important. And
28:47
the work that I'm looking at is not
28:49
only related to
28:50
the nurse.
28:51
It's also looking
28:53
to patients
28:54
at better outcomes and better satisfaction.
28:57
So I'm looking at it with my group,
28:59
the team, from both sides, the nurse
29:02
outcomes of it and the patient outcomes of
29:05
it. And we are beginning to recognize
29:07
there is a difference. And so I do
29:10
think,
29:11
health care leaders, and it's really to be
29:13
nurse and other leaders in health care that
29:15
are not nurses,
29:17
you have to have that that foundational element
29:19
of being a relational leader to make it
29:20
work and to make
29:22
your organizational
29:24
be differentiated from others. Doctor.
29:27
Billy, that's such an important point and certainly,
29:30
you know,
29:31
essential for educating the next level of leaders
29:34
as well as nurse professionals.
29:36
Thank you so much for joining us on
29:37
the podcast today. Yeah. Of course. And thank
29:39
you so much for the opportunity.