Latest / All Mom Does Podcast with Julie Lyles Carr / The Book of Us with Tim Mulgrew

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The Book of Us with Tim Mulgrew · All Mom Does Podcast with Julie Lyles Carr

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Purposely your life, God's purpose. Listen it purposely dot com.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: Before you can decide that you want to live and
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  Speaker 2: pattern your life after what Scripture says. Don't you think
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  Speaker 2: y'allt to understand whether or not Scripture is truly God's
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  Speaker 2: word and truly accurate. That would be certainly of the
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  Speaker 2: first step that none of us really take. Oh, it's
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  Speaker 2: the Bible, you know, It's just always been there.
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  Speaker 3: Hey, friend, I am so glad that you're here today.
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  Speaker 3: I'm Julie Lyles car and this is the Almandos podcast
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  Speaker 3: for the Purposely podcast Network. Whether you are listening via
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: the way that you'd like to get your podcasts and
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: you're on that walk, or you are watching on YouTube,
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  Speaker 3: we are just so glad that you are here. As
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  Speaker 3: part of what we always try to do, we want
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  Speaker 3: to bring you tools and perspectives and ideas to really
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  Speaker 3: help you as you are in this season of your life,
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  Speaker 3: whether that is with your kids, or in your marriage,
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  Speaker 3: or with work, and of course in your spiritual formation
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  Speaker 3: in your relationship with God. I'm really excited to introduce
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  Speaker 3: you to this guest today because he's going to walk
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  Speaker 3: us through a better way, a fresh way to think
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  Speaker 3: about looking at scripture working through the Bible for yourself.
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  Speaker 3: It can be a place that you might feel a
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  Speaker 3: little overwhelmed or a little confused. And He's got some
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  Speaker 3: great perspective on some of the ways that we can
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  Speaker 3: engage scripture in our lives that you might not have considered.
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  Speaker 3: So I want to give a big welcome to the
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  Speaker 3: Allmam Podcast art new friend, Tim Lgrew. Tim, thanks so
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  Speaker 3: much for being with us. Thanks for having me absolutely
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  Speaker 3: all away from West Virginia. We are glad to have
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  Speaker 3: you here today. So tell me a little bit about
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  Speaker 3: yourself how you started to take a look at scripture. Now,
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  Speaker 3: you've had a varied career, You've done all kinds of things.
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  Speaker 3: You've raised kids on your own, You've been in California,
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  Speaker 3: you've moved, You've done all kinds of stuff. What is
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  Speaker 3: it in this season of your life that you thought,
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  Speaker 3: you know what, I want to sit down and take
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  Speaker 3: a look at how we consider scripture and help equip
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  Speaker 3: people to be able to engage the Word of God
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  Speaker 3: for themselves. What was that for you that drew you
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  Speaker 3: into this new mission?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, kicking and screaming with a hook from God.
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  Speaker 2: That says here, I've got a great idea for you.
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  Speaker 2: Run with this idea. In most of my earlier career
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  Speaker 2: and of course raising families and all of that, it's
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  Speaker 2: really been about human nature, human behavior. We have these
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  Speaker 2: human tendencies that we all we don't even know. We
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  Speaker 2: struggle with them most of the time. But I started
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  Speaker 2: to see this pattern of human behavior and how it
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  Speaker 2: gets in the way of having a relationship with God.
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  Speaker 2: How to how we read scripture. We read scripture and
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  Speaker 2: we all kind of do it the same, and it's
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  Speaker 2: a pattern that just doesn't serve us the way it
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  Speaker 2: ought to. And that's kind of where it all starts.
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  Speaker 3: What pattern do you see a lot of us approach
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  Speaker 3: scripture through like that lens? How are some of us
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  Speaker 3: coming into it? And maybe we're missing an opportunity to
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  Speaker 3: have greater understanding or really seeing more how it applies
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  Speaker 3: to us.
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  Speaker 2: First of all, we read scripture like a textbook, like
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  Speaker 2: a history book. It's pretty much how we've been taught
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  Speaker 2: to read. And what I refer to as Western style.
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  Speaker 2: Western style writing is about what I call a fact dump,
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  Speaker 2: and then another fact, and then another fact and another factor,
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  Speaker 2: and it's kind of textbook feel interesting that we all
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  Speaker 2: have a bad taste about school, but it's exactly what
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  Speaker 2: we do. Eastern style writing, which is how scripture is
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  Speaker 2: actually written, actually is experiential. It wants you to look, touch, feel,
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  Speaker 2: be a part of a story. But we don't read
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  Speaker 2: scripture that way, and so we often get confused about
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  Speaker 2: wait a minute, what's going on here? And what are
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  Speaker 2: these strange people that died thousands of years ago? And
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  Speaker 2: why should I care about what happened to them and
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  Speaker 2: their life? Where is it speaking to me today? And
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  Speaker 2: that's all involved in how we read and how we
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  Speaker 2: look at scripture, right.
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  Speaker 3: You know, growing up the denomination that I was raised in,
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  Speaker 3: I got to tell you, Tim, we certainly there was
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  Speaker 3: a great esteem for scripture. I want to just state
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  Speaker 3: that real clearly. If somebody does a deep dive and
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  Speaker 3: you know, goes, oh, I know what denomination she was
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  Speaker 3: raised in, I want to be very clear. There's a
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  Speaker 3: lot of esteem, a lot of respect, a lot of
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  Speaker 3: honoring of God's word. And there was a particular bent
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  Speaker 3: to it, at least for me in the ages and
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  Speaker 3: stages when I was being raised that we were onboarding.
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  Speaker 3: Like you say, all the historical facts, and believe me,
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  Speaker 3: we could smoke anybody in a biblical trivia kind of
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  Speaker 3: game or quiz or battle whatever, because that was very
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  Speaker 3: important to know the twelve tribes and to know this
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  Speaker 3: and to know that, like all these little different things.
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  Speaker 3: And I'm still so glad that I have that foundation,
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  Speaker 3: and in that way was encouraged to really be in
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  Speaker 3: the Word of God. It was a whole other thing
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  Speaker 3: to begin to truly see the human element and to
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  Speaker 3: see the timelessness instead of oh these events from two
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  Speaker 3: thousand years ago, twenty five hundred years ago, three thousand
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  Speaker 3: years ago, back to the time of King David, whatever.
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  Speaker 3: The ability to really see what is consistently true about
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  Speaker 3: human nature and how it applies, and to not get
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  Speaker 3: too caught up in trying to reframe. Oh well, because
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  Speaker 3: that was that long ago, it doesn't really mean the
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  Speaker 3: same thing today. All those places where sometimes we can
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  Speaker 3: miss some real gems because we're looking at it that way.
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  Speaker 3: Talk to me about how we are now seen. And
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  Speaker 3: these numbers are just wild. At the time that your
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  Speaker 3: book's coming out, it just couldn't be more apropos because
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  Speaker 3: all this sudden in a way that I think a
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  Speaker 3: lot of us could not have predicted just three or
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  Speaker 3: four years ago, we're seeing Bible sales just going through
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  Speaker 3: the roof. We're seeing a whole new generation of people going, Oh,
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  Speaker 3: I want to know this book, I want to have
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  Speaker 3: this book, which is exciting, but it also means they're
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  Speaker 3: coming to it a lot of times without any kind
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  Speaker 3: of having had a history or a model or a
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  Speaker 3: template for how to look at it. So, for someone
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  Speaker 3: who is just now coming into scripture, how would you
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  Speaker 3: advise them to begin to engage the Word of God
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  Speaker 3: if they are opening it for the first time for themselves,
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  Speaker 3: how do they get in that mindset to appreciate the
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  Speaker 3: Eastern writing style when the default method may be more
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  Speaker 3: of that Western linear timeline, historical kind of Look, you
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  Speaker 3: know what.
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  Speaker 2: You were talking about, learning about all the historical content
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  Speaker 2: and all that. That's all what I would call foundational learning.
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  Speaker 2: But once the foundation is built, it's time to build
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  Speaker 2: the house on it, right, And we spend so much
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  Speaker 2: time focusing on these foundational things without ever taking it
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  Speaker 2: to the next step. I quote in a later book
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  Speaker 2: or another book that I wrote that I think the
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  Speaker 2: thing to do is to take the front cover and
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  Speaker 2: staple it to the back cover, not literally, but to
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  Speaker 2: get away from the idea that there's a beginning and
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  Speaker 2: an end. You know, you hear people say, oh, I've
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  Speaker 2: read the Bible cover to cover. Okay, that's great, but
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  Speaker 2: that's not how it's written. And if you do that,
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  Speaker 2: you will walk away with some information. But how do
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  Speaker 2: you use that in your daily life? How do you
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  Speaker 2: apply that? You know, the things that you talk about learning,
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  Speaker 2: those are great and they make you look real smart
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  Speaker 2: in Sunday school, But what about Monday through Saturday? When
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  Speaker 2: can I use this information? How can I help it
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  Speaker 2: teach me how to get through life, how to live
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  Speaker 2: a fulfilled life? And that's where historically, the way we've
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  Speaker 2: read the Bible, it just gets left off and nobody
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  Speaker 2: kind of knows the answer to that. What I'm trying
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  Speaker 2: to do in my ministry of a series of books
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  Speaker 2: is to show you how to find yourself in scripture,
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  Speaker 2: how to make it relevant. Why asking the question why
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  Speaker 2: did God think it was so important a couple thousand
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  Speaker 2: years ago to capture this particular story and there's of
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  Speaker 2: course millions of them, and why put it in print
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  Speaker 2: for me to read today? And why am i reading
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  Speaker 2: it today? What is the purpose? And I think that
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  Speaker 2: as people start to look at scripture in this light,
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  Speaker 2: particularly the newer generations that haven't been indoctrinated in the
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  Speaker 2: older ways of you know, just kind of clunking through
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  Speaker 2: and filling your head with memorizing and all of these things,
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  Speaker 2: it's a fresh look to say, what is it saying
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  Speaker 2: to me? Why did God put this here? Why am
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  Speaker 2: I reading it today? And how can I use it
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  Speaker 2: to get a better relationship with God? Because that really
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  Speaker 2: is the goal of scripture from the start to finish.
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  Speaker 2: We've often said it about salvation, but it's not. It's
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  Speaker 2: a book about restoration and that includes salvation. But we're
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  Speaker 2: being restored. What are we being restored too? And you
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  Speaker 2: really only have to crack the cover of Genesis to
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  Speaker 2: see what it was like before we messed things up.
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  Speaker 2: God walked through the garden with Adam and Eve in
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  Speaker 2: the cool of the morning. What did they do? They
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  Speaker 2: hung out together, They talked, they shared coffee, they went
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  Speaker 2: to Starbucks, they talked about, you know, these amazing things.
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  Speaker 2: And we don't have any of that because we don't
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  Speaker 2: have that kind of relationship with God. But it is
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  Speaker 2: the relationship. God wants to restore us too. We are
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  Speaker 2: the ones that are resistant to it for some reason. Right.
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  Speaker 3: I love this idea of stapling the front cover to
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  Speaker 3: the back. That's such a great visual in terms of
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  Speaker 3: a way to understand that it's it is on loop,
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  Speaker 3: that it is a different way of looking looking at it.
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  Speaker 3: I was so wished him that I could remember who
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  Speaker 3: this minister was quoting. I was in a recent church
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  Speaker 3: service and our minister said, sometimes we take scripture and
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  Speaker 3: we're almost using it, if you will, kind of like
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  Speaker 3: it's an astrology chart or something. We are like finding
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  Speaker 3: ourselves in all of it in these extremely granular, specific ways.
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  Speaker 3: And the statement was from another writer, while the Bible
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  Speaker 3: is for you, it's not about you, which I thought
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  Speaker 3: was a really interesting statement. And so I just want
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  Speaker 3: to throw that out to you. How does that hit you?
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  Speaker 3: I understood the nuance that we need to be thoughtful
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  Speaker 3: about the way we're engaging scripture because we don't want
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  Speaker 3: to miss some of the bigger stuff about Jesus' ministry
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  Speaker 3: and why and what restoration looks like, and that it's
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  Speaker 3: for all of mankind, Like I know, we don't want
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  Speaker 3: to lose that but anyway, I'm just going to throw
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  Speaker 3: that little that quote who I can't remember who's aid it.
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  Speaker 3: I'm just going to throw that your way. What do
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  Speaker 3: you think about that?
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  Speaker 2: Well, it's an interesting quote, and it's probably like everything
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  Speaker 2: we do, taken out of context to a much bigger
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  Speaker 2: picture that we're not talking about here. Yeah, the Bible
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  Speaker 2: is for us, And in fact, I say that in
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  Speaker 2: the very first part of my book, where I say
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  Speaker 2: God doesn't need a Bible to know how to be God. Right,
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  Speaker 2: team made this Bible for us so that we would
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  Speaker 2: know how to relate to him. And yeah, it is
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  Speaker 2: definitely a book for us, but I would say it
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  Speaker 2: is also a book about us. It is filled with
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  Speaker 2: examples of our human nature, our natural tendencies, the way
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  Speaker 2: we do things. We however, like we love our legalism,
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  Speaker 2: but we talk against it, but we love to do
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  Speaker 2: it right. We love to take a piece out of
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  Speaker 2: scripture and say, see there's another rule here. And we've
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  Speaker 2: made the book about a bunch of rules and regulations,
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  Speaker 2: which is odd because when we go out and we
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  Speaker 2: talk to people outside the church, they say, why would
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  Speaker 2: I want to sign up for a list of rules
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  Speaker 2: and regulations? And dos and don'ts that takes all the
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  Speaker 2: fun out of life, and scripture is not that we've
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  Speaker 2: made it that. And this is where we have to
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  Speaker 2: stop that tendency to weaponize. If you will, you must
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  Speaker 2: behave this way right. You know, the man is in
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  Speaker 2: charge of the house and the woman must follow, and
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  Speaker 2: she has no choice because the Bible says so. The
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  Speaker 2: Bible doesn't say that. It talks about partnerships. It talks
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  Speaker 2: about uniting. And the family really is is a picture
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  Speaker 2: of being united with Christ. That's what baptism is. It's
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  Speaker 2: not being dunked in water and coming up and drying
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  Speaker 2: yourself off. Baptism is a picture of joining yourself. Marriage
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  Speaker 2: is a picture of joining yourself. The family is a
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  Speaker 2: picture of joining together a group of people who have
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  Speaker 2: different ideas and different thoughts and learning how to work
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  Speaker 2: together to resolve. And the family unit is a it's
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  Speaker 2: like base right home base where you get to test
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  Speaker 2: drive different things before you stay out into the world
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  Speaker 2: and get eaten alive by the way they do things.
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  Speaker 2: This is all the what the Bible is showing us
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  Speaker 2: and teaching us, but we miss it because we're more
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  Speaker 2: interested in making rules out of everything.
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  Speaker 3: I think a lot of times we can take a
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  Speaker 3: look back at people's you know, for the example of
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  Speaker 3: the Israelites and when they were stelling captivity in Egypt
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  Speaker 3: and when they were going through the Exodus, when they
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  Speaker 3: were coming into the Promised Land. We can look at
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  Speaker 3: people from the first century at the time where Roman
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  Speaker 3: rule was what was practically across every bit of the
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  Speaker 3: known earth and the westerns, and you know, in that
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  Speaker 3: particular piece of civilization, and we can sometimes find it
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  Speaker 3: hard to relate or we highlight the differences in what
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  Speaker 3: life was like back then versus now. And yet part
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  Speaker 3: of what you say in your book, The Book of Us,
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  Speaker 3: is that there's a whole lot about human nature that
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  Speaker 3: has not changed. That if we are willing to lay
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  Speaker 3: down some of our modernity, we can take a good
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  Speaker 3: look and go, oh wow, they were grappling with some
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  Speaker 3: of the same things. What are things that stood out
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  Speaker 3: to you as you were working on this book, where
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  Speaker 3: you thought, man, that is exactly like some of the
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  Speaker 3: stuff that we're grappling with today. Regardless of what technologies, advances, whatever,
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  Speaker 3: we have, this piece of human nature remains.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. And in fact, you can get when you get
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  Speaker 2: to the second half of the Book of Us. I
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  Speaker 2: actually take the sixty six books of the Bible and
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  Speaker 2: give you a thirty thousand foot view of exactly what
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  Speaker 2: the human nature and human characteristic is that's being described
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  Speaker 2: in that particular book. And then not to give the
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  Speaker 2: end away, because in the Book of Us there is
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  Speaker 2: no end either, but it basically talks about look at
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  Speaker 2: the overview. So we looked at each of the sixty
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  Speaker 2: six books, and the human behavior we see repeated over
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  Speaker 2: and over and over. But then let's look at the
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  Speaker 2: pattern of human behavior as well, and all of a sudden,
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  Speaker 2: you get this whole different perspective. Now, if you just
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  Speaker 2: read that and say wow, that's interesting and you walk away,
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  Speaker 2: then you really missed the point, because the whole concept
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  Speaker 2: here is is to relate that and say, oh, I
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  Speaker 2: really should be looking at scripture in a different way.
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  Speaker 2: I encourage people, you know, when you see the villains
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  Speaker 2: of the Bible, if you will, the Pharisees and the
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  Speaker 2: Israelites and all of this, take that word out and
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  Speaker 2: put your name in there. And it's kind of a
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  Speaker 2: silly exercise, but the concept is there to say, this
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  Speaker 2: is something that somebody is going through and there's lessons
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  Speaker 2: to be learned here. What is the lesson if this
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  Speaker 2: was happening to me instead of pointing the finger and saying, well,
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: look up those Israelites. You know, God saved him and
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  Speaker 2: then they got impatient waiting for Moses, so they made
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  Speaker 2: themselves a golden calf. Well what is that about. Well,
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  Speaker 2: as humans, we have a hard time relating to a
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  Speaker 2: God that's invisible. We like the look, that touch, the
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  Speaker 2: feel right. This is why we make graven images in
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  Speaker 2: those days. But now, of course we have all kinds
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  Speaker 2: of quote idols, and they're not wood or stone things.
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  Speaker 2: They're things in our life that are so important they
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  Speaker 2: tend to get in the way of a relationship with God,
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  Speaker 2: and they're all good things. You know. Family is an idol.
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  Speaker 2: Work is an idol. The Bible itself is an idol
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  Speaker 2: because we elevate it to such a way that it's
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  Speaker 2: importance takes away from our ability to grasp and understand.
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  Speaker 2: And these are all just these human tendencies and we
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  Speaker 2: all have them. We just don't recognize them for what
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  Speaker 2: they are. Why, because we're so quick to point our
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  Speaker 2: finger into blame others. My pastor who recently retired, said
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  Speaker 2: every time I point at you, there's three fingers pointing
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  Speaker 2: back at me, and people would kind of laugh and say, oh, yeah,
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  Speaker 2: I get that. But it's such a true reality if
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  Speaker 2: you just stop for a moment and say, what's being
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  Speaker 2: said here pointing the finger, I shouldn't be actually be
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  Speaker 2: looking at myself. Scripture is Scripture is talking about me.
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  Speaker 2: It's not talking about some strange people from some strange
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  Speaker 2: land from a long time ago. And the way we
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  Speaker 2: know that is because scripture, at least four times I
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  Speaker 2: found it, and I know there's more. It says these
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  Speaker 2: things were written as an example to you, and it
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  Speaker 2: actually tells us that. It's like, wow, okay, this is
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  Speaker 2: a story that's an example. And we used to have
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  Speaker 2: things like that, we used to have fables, right, And
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  Speaker 2: what's happened is is those became children's stories. Why well,
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  Speaker 2: because scripture told us that we should relate these things
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  Speaker 2: to our children. But they became children's books, and so
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  Speaker 2: then when we grow up we just toss them out
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  Speaker 2: and say, oh that you know, the king has no clothes.
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  Speaker 2: You know the story of the Golden goose or the
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  Speaker 2: goose that lays the golden egg and these types of stories.
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  Speaker 2: These are filled with credible wisdom that we're missing at once.
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  Speaker 2: We quote grow up right.
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: We'll be back with more. All mom does after this.
• 18:09
  Speaker 4: It's probably one of the number one questions I get
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: being a mom of eight kids, and that question is
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: what on earth are y'all doing about college? And I
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: can tell you with eight different kids, eight different learning styles,
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: eight different ideas about what the kids want when it
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: comes to their careers and all of the rest. College
• 18:30
  Speaker 4: has been a big topic of conversation around here. Well,
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: there is a university that I want you to know
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: about because it just hits so many of the things
• 18:40
  Speaker 4: that are really important when it comes to considering your
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: kids college education. George Fox University. It's the number one
• 18:48
  Speaker 4: private school in Oregon. It's a Christian university. It's located
• 18:52
  Speaker 4: in the heart of the Pacific Northwest. And what's so
• 18:55
  Speaker 4: great is, in addition to a top notch education, students
• 18:59
  Speaker 4: have the opportune to grow and deepen their faith and
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: they can learn in this really pivotal time in their
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: lives who God made them to be. I mean, let's
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: face it, we need more people coming out of our
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: universities who know how to be leaders and how to
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: be leaders with character. And George Fox University offers more
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: than sixty academic majors, and that includes a nationally recognized
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: engineering program, a nursing program. It allows your student to
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: pursue their passions and prepare for the calling that God
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: has for them. And let's not forget about fun when
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: it comes to college. George Fox University students have a
• 19:37
  Speaker 4: great student life. There are weekly campus events, there's chapel,
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: there's service opportunities. There are twenty three NCAA Division three
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: athletic teams. Here's something that is important to me. There's
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: a study abroad opportunities, so if your student wants to
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: go and experience life somewhere else for a semester, they
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: can do that. There's outdoor recreation because of course we're
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: talking about Oregon's so gorgeous. George Fox University could be
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: just the perfect fit for your student. As you are
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: looking into college career and all that goes beyond, George
• 20:10
  Speaker 4: Fox University where your student will learn and thrive in
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: the center of it all. You're listening to all mom does,
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: I'm Julie Lyles Carr.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: And I think too, you know, we've done it within
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: the church because we've taken we've taken stories like Noah's
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: Ark and understandably because it has this beautiful element of
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: the animals and things like that, but we have sanitized it.
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: We have you know, cartoonized it in many ways. Jonah
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: and the Whales similar. And it's interesting because I encounter
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: people when they get into the Word of God for themselves,
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: they're a little bit stunned because another thing that we've
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: done is we've gotten a little puritanical with what we
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: present is in the Word of God. So when people discover,
• 20:51
  Speaker 3: for example, the dysfunction of David's family, things that we're
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: going down and we will go yeah. And there are
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: families today, families and churches that have some of the
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: same kind of challenges and dynamics and sin and things
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: that happen. And yet we act shocked because we have
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: sanitized how we present the Bible in such a way
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: that it doesn't we don't often acknowledge just that there
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: are some dark, complicated, layered things that happen because humans
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: are dark, layered, complicated beans. I want to ask you
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: too about this topic around context, because Tim, I have
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: seen context used as sort of a ali alioxen free
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: kind of moment. Well, that doesn't apply to today because
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: the context of the time was this city did this,
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: and they were worshiping this pagan god, and so Paul
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: needed to say xyz to them. And yet at the
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: same time, I've also experienced where someone is taking something
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: out of context and broadly applying it or creating a
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: really hard and fast rule. How do you look at context?
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: It was such an important thing for me. I went
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: through k arthur precept studies, being certified in that and
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: the way that k would help guide through that. It
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: was so eye opening. I would love to hear your
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: perspective on how we can both appropriately look at the
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: times and places in which something was written or for example,
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: Jesus giving parables. You know, and sometimes people want to
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: say almost act like that was a documentary the story
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: he was telling, when he was using it as an
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: example or using it as a way to get out
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: of whatever. How do you handle context? What is the
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: balance of context?
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's sort of the root of legalism too, right.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: Do we not take pieces of scripture and quote weaponize
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: them to use a now famous term, this is what
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: we do? Why because we're seeking to elevate ourselves. And
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: Jesus tells us that when he says, how about the
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: Pharisee that goes into the temple next to the tax
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: collector and says, I, thank you God that I'm not
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: like him? Right, all he's doing is elevating himself. But
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Jesus says, hey, you've missed the point. This guy actually
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: is remorseful and that's what's required forgiveness, right, And now
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: we say, oh, well, forgiveness. Jesus says, we have to
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: forgive everybody. You're a Christian, you have to forgive. No,
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: it doesn't actually say that anywhere, and Jesus didn't actually
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: do that at any point in time. But this is
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: what we love to do. But if you look at context,
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: it's not just the passage itself, it's not just the
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: letter itself, it is the entire Bible itself. Is it
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: consistent with everything else we find in the Bible? And
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: what we find is is that these tried and true
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: rules and regulations that we've come up with aren't consistent
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: with other things in the Bible. And what that does
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: to us is that whether it's active or passive, we
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: tend to stop trusting what it says because we question
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: it ourselves. We don't know it well enough. So you
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: have to ask yourself before you start spewing out these
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: rules and regulations. Is that the intent of what was written?
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: And you know, in my career I had a law
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: as a big part, and in the court of law,
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: there's one side that argues the letter of the law
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: and there's one side that argues the intent of the law.
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: And the question is which one is the real law?
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: Is it what the author of the law intended to
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: be used for, or is it that he didn't write
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: it or he wrote it in such a way that
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: I can now twist it and make it into something
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: I want it to be right. And to me, I've
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: always been passionate about intent the intent. So you can
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: take law, and all of our law here in America
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: comes from scripture. And you know, that's a whole podcast
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: in and of itself to explain that. But basically, you
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: look at the intent. What was the writer saying? Why
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: were they saying it? And it's easy to say, oh,
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: well back then it was like that, but why would
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: it be captured today? Ask yourself, why am I reading
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: this today? It's still relevant. Scripture is alive, and if
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: it's alive, it can't be telling us an old story.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: It has to be telling us something we can use today.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: And when you open yourself up to that and allow
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: it to say something new instead of oh well, in
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: Sunday School, I learned that this particular passage is about
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: this story, and therefore I know that, so I'm moving on.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: Don't do that to yourself. Let that story tell you
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: a new story every single time, because that's what it's doing.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: And in my book I talk about that. You know,
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: a lot of times a passage will speak to us
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: and we'll highlight it, but go back to it a
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: year later and say, gee, I wonder what it was
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: about that particular passage. Why did I highlight that? I
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: don't remember anymore? And that shows you and scripture is
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: speaking to you where you are today, so that you know,
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: many of us have had that experience of hey, I've
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: read the Bible an X number of times and that
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: passage was never there before. Right, we've all experienced that. No,
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: the Bible didn't change, you did, and so it's now
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: speaking to the new you. Right, You've grown another year
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: since you read that last. So now that particular passage
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: becomes meaningful to you. And if we allow the Bible
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: to talk to us instead of us determining what it says,
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: we have a whole different experience. And since it's a
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: rule book, if you will, on how to relate to God,
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: isn't that the ultimate gold Have a relationship with God
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: not just something that we say, but we actually imagine.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: If God's actually really your best friend and you share
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: everything with them just like you do your now best friend,
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: what an amazing experience that is. And that's what right?
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: And you know, I think a lot of us who
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: may have been raised in a faith background, depending on
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: what that background looked like, a lot of what I
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: think sometimes maybe some of us carry forward is the
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: sense that the Bible is a gotcha book, Like if
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: you're not doing these things, then God is sitting over
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: here waiting for the gotcha He's going to get you
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: that you you know, you go through It's like God's
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: speed trap and this is where He's going to catch you.
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: Rather than taking the deeper look in which God so
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: often in scripture, particularly through prophets, is saying I'm a loving,
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: compassionate God who wants my people with me, wants to
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: draw you with me because this is this is the way,
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: and I'm putting these things in your lane for you
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: to understand so that you can stay close to me.
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: But there there are things that you can choose to
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: do in ways you can choose to go that are
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: going to take you further from me. And so that
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: very much shifts when we think about context. There's historical context,
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: but as you, I love that you point out there's intent.
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: And if intent is about God saying I want you
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: safe and protected and vibrant and vital, I'm not trying
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: to catch you. I'm trying to equip you, that becomes
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: a completely different conversation. Tim talk to me too about
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: someone who, let's say that this is their first foray
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: for themselves into scripture. Maybe they grew up with a
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: Bible around the house, or they've been relying on their
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: pastor or their priest to unpack it for them, and
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: they feel a little unequipped and they're not really sure
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: about how to approach scripture. And they know there's a
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: narrative out there that talks about, well, how can the
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: Bible be accurate? I mean, it's written over fourteen hundred years,
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: It has forty authors, It has all these different people talking.
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: How do you know it was translated correctly? How do
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: you know that things were handed off in the right
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: way with different scrolls and different pieces of things. How
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: do you handle that in terms of saying, hey, this
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: is a book of Us that you can trust. This
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: is a book of Us that you can lean into
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: for someone who is a little bit who's a little
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: maybe skeptical about the provenance of scripture.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: Well, skepticism and the inability for us to defend our
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: faith comes from the fact that we don't understand it
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: at all ourselves. We say we believe these things, but
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: it's only because we've been taught to say those things
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: and behave that way, because God expects a certain behavior
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: from us. Of course, the Bible doesn't say anything like that.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: That's our own thing that we put upon us so
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: part of and it's an important piece to the Book
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: of Us, which I cover. Before you can decide that
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: you want to live and pattern your life after what
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: Scripture says, don't you think y' ought to understand whether
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: or not scripture is is truly God's word and truly
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: accurate that would be certainly of the first step that
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: none of us really take. Oh, it's the Bible, you know,
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: It's just always been there, so in the book of us.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: I actually am going to stop for a moment, this
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: concept of the book really being about us and our
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: humanness and these types of things. Are going to say,
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: let's pause for a moment, and let's look at the
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: Bible itself, the history of the Bible. Where did we
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: get it, where did it come from? How do we
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: know it's accurate? What about what critics say about this?
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: What about other religions? What about these things? And what
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: I'm going to do is I'm going to take about
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: the middle section of the book and solve that equation
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: for you. Why because you need to know it before
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: you make a commitment, and you need to be able
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: to defend it when other people challenge your commitment, right,
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: And the only way you can do that is to
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: know it and understand it. So here it is. Here's
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: the facts. You can google, this, you can research, you
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: can do whatever you want. This is where we got
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: our Bible, How we got our Bible, what it is
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: and what it is not, how it was written and
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: how it was not written, and this is what it is.
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: Now you decide for yourself, do I want to pattern
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: my life after this? Because now you can make a
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: reasonable choice, right, And that's really what God is doing
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: for us in everything. He's not telling you you have
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: to live this way or I'm going to get you.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: What he's saying is and just like our own children
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: were saying, you've got a choice, God's God's gift to
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: mankind was not eternal life. And that's a mistake. People
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: don't understand that everybody has eternal life. It's where you're
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: going to spend that life.
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: And the great life is that.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: God gives us is the freedom to choose, you go
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: and underwrite your own decision. You're either going to be
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: here because you love me and you want to be here,
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: or you're going to be there because you love you more,
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: and that's perfectly reasonable. You know, we would love all
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: of our children to grow up and go to college,
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: but they don't all do that. Well, thank god, some
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: of them don't. Why well, because what if we lived
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: in a world where nobody collected the trash. Now we
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: think of that as a bad place for our child
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: to end up. But thank god, some children end up
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: doing that. Right. These are all important, and so when
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: we talk about equality, it isn't that we're all the same,
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: it's that we all have our role to play. We
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: all have different gifts in the Body of Christ and
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: outside the Body of Christ, and they're all equally important
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: because imagine if we didn't have them. Right, So you
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: have to understand what you're signing up for before you
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: just blindly sign up and say, yeah, I want to
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: be a Christian.
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: Right right, Well, this is a great resource, your new
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: book book of us to feel more confident about knowing
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: what you're doing, how to read the Bible, how to
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: pick it up, how to understand it. So Tim tell
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: the listener where they can go to find out more
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: about the book, more about you, all the great resources
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: that you have.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: So in enjoyscripture dot com. It's under development. If you
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: go there now, what you'll find is the last book
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: that I put out that's called John Reaching through Time
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: to guide us today, and that's about applying scripture out
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: of the Book of John, the Gospel of John. And
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: it's a way to learn application. But my whole goal
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: is really to communicate with people in a way they
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: understand not preachy, not heavy theology, not these things like
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: man speak to me in English? What does this mean?
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: And so that's really what's behind this whole thing. And
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: I'm hoping that it spreads like wildfire. Not because I
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: want to be rich and famous. I've already done that
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: in my life. I'm ready to serve God in this
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: way and this is a different way of looking at
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: it that I think people are really looking for today,
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: if they're honest with themselves.
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: I love that. Well. Tim, thank you so much for
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: your time today, and I'm excited for this to come
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: out for you, for these conversations to continue, so that
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: we can be a group of people who are equipped
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: and ready to talk about what God has done in
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: our lives and to help share that with the world.
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: So thank you so much for your diligence, your ministry,
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: your work in this area. Okay, friend, you know what
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: to do. This is the part where you hear me
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: every week say go to the show notes and you'll
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: find they're the link to the website that Tim was
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: talking about where you can find out more about the
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: Book of Us. We love it too. When you're just
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: you know, out there on the webs, make sure that
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: you go over and check out allmandes dot com because
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: you're going to find all kinds of great resources and
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: information and community women just like you who are in
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: the same seasons of life, asking a lot of the
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: same questions and also finding hip. So be sure and
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: check that out. I love it too when you come
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: over to Instagram. That's where I hang out the most.
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: Julie Lyles car over on Instagram. Slide into those dms.
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: Tell me the topics and the questions and the things
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: that are on your heart, because that helps us build
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: these episodes and all of it. We want to make
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: sure that we are walking alongside.
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: You in a way that is the best, most fascinating
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: and most resourced way that we can.
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: And be sure and share this episode because we love
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: it when you do that, and I will see you
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: next time on the on on this podcast.