Latest / The Bill Handel Show / Meta and YouTube Found Negligent | Colleges Combating Artificial Intelligence

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Meta and YouTube Found Negligent | Colleges Combating Artificial Intelligence · The Bill Handel Show

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  Speaker 1: You're listening to bill Handle on demand from KFI AM
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  Speaker 1: six forty.
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  Speaker 2: Bill handle here on a Thursday morning, Marsha twenty six,
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  Speaker 2: and we've got, oh, we've got some cases to talk
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  Speaker 2: about and a couple of big ones. So yesterday here
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  Speaker 2: in La jury deliberated for nine days and at one point,
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  Speaker 2: and this is telling, at one point telling the judge
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  Speaker 2: it was having a very difficult time reaching a decision.
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  Speaker 2: Nine days is a long time for a jury to deliberate.
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  Speaker 2: And then they returned the verdict yesterday finding that both
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  Speaker 2: Meta and Google are liable for creating addictive products that
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  Speaker 2: caused a young women's mental health problems. Now, there are
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  Speaker 2: two cases that have come down and they're very different,
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  Speaker 2: and I think this one is far more problematic to
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  Speaker 2: these platforms. So in this case, the two companies were
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  Speaker 2: ordered to pay three million dollars in conpensatory damages to
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  Speaker 2: this woman, seventy percent by Meda, thirty percent by Google.
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  Speaker 2: And if you talk about three million dollars come on,
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  Speaker 2: that is a little not even pocket change for these companies.
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  Speaker 2: For example, Meta a loan brought in nearly sixty billion
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  Speaker 2: dollars over the first quarter of twenty twenty five. But
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  Speaker 2: here is the problem for these companies. Is this a
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  Speaker 2: bell Weather lawsuit? Will There are thousands of these are
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  Speaker 2: already pending. And sometimes when you look at which way
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  Speaker 2: a jury is going to go, or how many juries
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  Speaker 2: have come down in a certain decision, all of a sudden,
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  Speaker 2: you've got defendants that are going whoops, and we've got
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  Speaker 2: to we have to settle this. A couple of big
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  Speaker 2: companies already settled. Matthew Bergman, one of the lawyers of
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  Speaker 2: the plaintiff, sent State to the reporters. This verdic carries
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  Speaker 2: implications far beyond the courtroom, no kidding, and it establishes
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  Speaker 2: a framework for how similar cases the contract across the
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  Speaker 2: country will be evaluated and demonstrates the juries are willing
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  Speaker 2: to hold tech companies accountable.
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  Speaker 3: And here is the difference.
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  Speaker 2: In one case, it's argued that these platforms are complicit
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  Speaker 2: in helping people or helping various bad actors from going
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  Speaker 2: on and causing harm to kids, primarily in terms of
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  Speaker 2: body dysmorphia. Yeah you are ugly, or here's how you
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  Speaker 2: handle something badly, or just a negative view of themselves
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  Speaker 2: and others. It's easy to bully someone when you're on
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  Speaker 2: a platform, and is the platform liable for that generally not.
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  Speaker 2: This is a tough one for them because the argument
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  Speaker 2: here is the very nature of these platforms, the design
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  Speaker 2: of these platforms tries to addict kids. In other words,
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  Speaker 2: we have designed this thing to make it happen, so
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  Speaker 2: kids spend more time on our platform and check to
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  Speaker 2: it and check on it much more. And that is
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  Speaker 2: completely addictive, and harm comes out of that. Now we
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  Speaker 2: know harm comes out of it if you're on if
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  Speaker 2: you're scrolling for ten hours a day, that ain't good.
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  Speaker 2: And there are all kinds of damages you got, emotional damages,
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  Speaker 2: psychological damages.
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  Speaker 3: The argument is that your school work, that a kid's school.
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  Speaker 2: Work and ability to think, have cognitive skills and understand
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  Speaker 2: and analyze is basically all effectively gone.
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  Speaker 3: I'm gonna do a little story about that a little
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  Speaker 3: later on too.
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  Speaker 2: And so the very premise how these very programs, these
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  Speaker 2: platforms are designed is defective. It's a design defect, that's
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  Speaker 2: the problem.
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  Speaker 3: And that is a core question.
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  Speaker 2: Is this does this program that does these platforms meta Google,
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  Speaker 2: do they play a direct role in causing the mental
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  Speaker 2: health issues that the plaintiff in fact experience, and she
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  Speaker 2: argued she had a dangerous dependency on the platforms and
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  Speaker 2: they contributed to her anxiety, depression, self harm, and body dysmorphia,
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  Speaker 2: and that in fact that was not only a consequence,
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  Speaker 2: it was designed to keep them on and it really
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  Speaker 2: didn't matter.
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  Speaker 3: It's like big tobacco.
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  Speaker 2: This is a kin to big tobacco, where the argument
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  Speaker 2: was that the cigarettes were designed to be addictive, the
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  Speaker 2: very design to keep people smoking more, and then ignored,
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  Speaker 2: of course, thought like crazy that they that nicotine was
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  Speaker 2: dangerous at all. Same argument is here that these platforms
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  Speaker 2: are designed well, exactly almost the same thing, designed to
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  Speaker 2: keep kids addicted to the platform and therefore causing whatever harm.
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  Speaker 2: And we're getting more and more information about the harm,
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  Speaker 2: and so very different than kids who are that or
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  Speaker 2: excuse me, are that bad actors are there and the
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  Speaker 2: platforms aren't doing enough, for example, to stop them, not
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  Speaker 2: doing enough to monitor the what's being posted here. It's
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  Speaker 2: the very design of this product. It goes in that direction.
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  Speaker 2: It's a big, big decision for sure. Okay, let's that
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  Speaker 2: is a little complicated, really earth shattering. So I want
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  Speaker 2: to go into something a little little bit more fun
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: so a little bit about my life. I work every morning, obviously,
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  Speaker 2: and so when I am at my home, which I
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  Speaker 2: am today, I go down the stairs and I have
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  Speaker 2: my basic thirty foot commute. There you go, kno an
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  Speaker 2: hour driving in. I have a thirty foot commute, And
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  Speaker 2: I go downstairs in the morning and roll into the
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  Speaker 2: studio and start getting things.
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  Speaker 3: I'm in my shorts.
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  Speaker 2: I do throw a shirt on, and during the summer,
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  Speaker 2: I don't even wear my shorts.
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  Speaker 3: You know, the wind is blowing and it feels very good.
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  Speaker 3: So that's my life.
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  Speaker 2: And then once I'm finished, and excuse me, I do
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  Speaker 2: my workout and I'm starting yoga, and I go to
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  Speaker 2: the gym and I walk every day. Then I do
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  Speaker 2: I go to my afternoon job. And my afternoon job
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  Speaker 2: is basically either going to Costco. And then I start
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  Speaker 2: my afternoon job late. And what is my afternoon job.
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  Speaker 2: It is sitting on the couch and watching television. Now,
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  Speaker 2: I'll tell you what does not happen on my afternoon job.
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  Speaker 2: What I don't worry about. Rattlesnakes. Very few rattlesnakes in
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  Speaker 2: my house. Very few rattlesnakes down the stairs. Very few
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  Speaker 2: rattlesnakes on my way to Costco. Now, if you hike,
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  Speaker 2: and this happened to a forty six year old More
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  Speaker 2: Park woman, she was bit by a rattlesnake in Ventura
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  Speaker 2: County and she died. Usually you don't die of rattlesnake
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  Speaker 2: bites because they have anti venom.
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  Speaker 3: People are there. Incomes the airplane or the ambulance.
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  Speaker 2: But if you're in for forefin Land, if you're in
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  Speaker 2: the far reaches of the forest or in the hiking.
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  Speaker 3: Areas, you know, it may take a while.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, by the way, the sucking the venom out of
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  Speaker 2: the bite, that really doesn't work. It only works if
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  Speaker 2: you have a sore in your mouth, then it's really pleasant.
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  Speaker 2: If you have a canker sore not maybe problematic. Also,
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  Speaker 2: for some reason, the tournique doesn't work very well. The
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  Speaker 2: secret is get the battle, get the rattlesnake victim to
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  Speaker 2: a hospital. Then they have anti venom and so okay.
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  Speaker 2: The point is, there have been two rattlesnake bites in
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  Speaker 2: the last well in the last month, and that's compared
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  Speaker 2: with nine bites total in twenty twenty five. So we're
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  Speaker 2: talking about the first first quarter. Now, the health authorities.
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  Speaker 2: Ventura County Fire Department responded to a call for a
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  Speaker 2: bite on a hiking trail at Wellwood Park and then
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  Speaker 2: airlifted the patient to a local hospital. The woman, identified
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  Speaker 2: as a forty six year old Gabriela Batisa of more Park,
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  Speaker 2: died March nineteenth as a result of the rattlesnake venom toxicity. See,
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  Speaker 2: I didn't know it took that long to die. And
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  Speaker 2: I don't know how pleasant a death that is and
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  Speaker 2: may be excruciating pain.
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  Speaker 3: I have no idea. We have to ask doctor Jim.
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  Speaker 2: And then the following day, the County Fire Department rescued
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  Speaker 2: a teenager from Wendy Trail and she suffered a rattlesnake
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  Speaker 2: bite and firefighters hiked up to access her and bring
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  Speaker 2: her down and go to a hospital in stable conditions.
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  Speaker 2: So she's okay.
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  Speaker 1: But you know what's weird, Bill, The distance between Wildwood
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  Speaker 1: Park and Los Roblest Medical Center is less than two miles.
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  Speaker 1: I know the area incredibly well, so I don't understand
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  Speaker 1: even if she's deep in hiking in the Wildwood area,
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  Speaker 1: you're still less than two miles away from.
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  Speaker 3: Now I ask you this, there may be two miles.
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  Speaker 2: But what if it is such rough terrain that you
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  Speaker 2: cannot get an ambulance there, that you have to hire
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  Speaker 2: and bring it down. That's why, that's why they airlifted
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  Speaker 2: her or one of them. And then on March fourth,
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  Speaker 2: just a little while ago. You know, a couple three
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  Speaker 2: weeks ago, Julie and Hernandez twenty five years old, rattlesnake bite.
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  Speaker 2: She ended up dying. Now, why do you have so
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  Speaker 2: many rattlesnakes? Well, how about this one right, the hottest
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  Speaker 2: march on record. They come, They like the sun, those
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  Speaker 2: old rottle snakes. And US Forest Service and Sam Berdandin
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  Speaker 2: issued a warning saying you got to be very careful.
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  Speaker 2: So here are some safety tips. Number one, wear hiking
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  Speaker 2: boots and long pants, which provides some protection against a battlesnake.
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  Speaker 2: The second one is to hike on clearly marked paths
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  Speaker 2: so you can see in front of you and to
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  Speaker 2: avoid snakes. Don't wander into areas of tall grass. Snakes
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  Speaker 2: could be coiled up. And if you do see a snake,
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  Speaker 2: you back away slowly avoid contact. And then some common
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  Speaker 2: safety tips tell someone where you're going, carry planet of water,
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  Speaker 2: make sure your phone is charged or GPS, and in
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  Speaker 2: the event of a rattlesnake bite, hikers should.
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  Speaker 3: Remain calm and call nine to one one.
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  Speaker 2: Obviously, don't use turniquets, don't try to tract the venom,
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  Speaker 2: try to communicate to anyone nearby, and just wait calmly
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  Speaker 2: for respenders responders.
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  Speaker 3: To be on their way.
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  Speaker 2: But the best piece of advice is, what the hell
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  Speaker 2: are you doing on a trail? Really, you're hiking in
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  Speaker 2: an area that may have rattlesnakes.
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  Speaker 3: Give me a break.
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  Speaker 2: Now, I was the boy scout many years ago before
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  Speaker 2: I was thrown out of the troop. Literally, I was
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  Speaker 2: thrown out of the troop and I was on a hike.
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  Speaker 2: Stupid going on a hike. I did not realize what
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  Speaker 2: life was about at that time. And we ran into
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  Speaker 2: a rattle snake and the scout master took a shovel
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  Speaker 2: and literally cut the snake's head off.
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  Speaker 3: So you had this.
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  Speaker 2: Writhing snake with his head over there, and it was
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  Speaker 2: it was tough to see. So the bottom line is
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  Speaker 2: hiking it'll kill you every time you know it will
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  Speaker 2: you know you hike, you die. It's not that complicated. Okay,
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  Speaker 2: we're done. See good advice. Okay, story that just appeared
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  Speaker 2: in the New York Times I want to share with you,
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  Speaker 2: and that is that the United States Army has officially
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  Speaker 2: raised the enlistment age limit from thirty five, which was heretofore,
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  Speaker 2: to forty two and ease restrictions for people with marijuana conviction,
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  Speaker 2: but a single conviction for either smoking pot, having pot,
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  Speaker 2: or having the paraphernalia. And this comes years after the
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  Speaker 2: Army just struggled to meet the retirement goals or recruitment goals,
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  Speaker 2: and so you've got that recruitment goal issue, and we've
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  Speaker 2: got a war going on now with Iran. Now, granted
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  Speaker 2: it's only going to be a few thousand soldiers that
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  Speaker 2: are currently in the mid East, but if the war
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  Speaker 2: goes on, it could be thousands. So these updated requirements,
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  Speaker 2: which were published last week.
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  Speaker 3: Brings the Army in line with the other branches.
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  Speaker 2: The Air Force went from thirty nine to forty two
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  Speaker 2: years of age, the Navy went from thirty nine to
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  Speaker 2: forty one.
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  Speaker 3: And this is well, there's some very good reasons for this.
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  Speaker 2: Catherine Krizminski, director of studies at the Center for New
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  Speaker 2: American Security, said that most likely the increase in its
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  Speaker 2: age cap is matching the other branches, okay, and to
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  Speaker 2: tap into a larger pool of people with needed skills,
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  Speaker 2: including experts in cybersecurity, logistics, transportations. The bottom line is
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  Speaker 2: the skill level of soldiers today is extraordinarily higher than
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  Speaker 2: it needed, than it was needed twenty years ago, thirty
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  Speaker 2: years ago, even ten years ago. And here's what the
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  Speaker 2: outcome of this study issued by the RAM Corporation. The
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  Speaker 2: older recruits much more likely to fail out of basic training.
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  Speaker 3: Okay, no surprise there. But if they passed, they were.
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  Speaker 2: Promoted more quickly and re enlisted at a higher rate
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: than recruits under twenty. And the argument is, and it
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  Speaker 2: seems to be panning out, mature soldiers at the beginning
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  Speaker 2: of their military career add real value, not only terms
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  Speaker 2: of skill sets when we're talking about cybersecurity and transportation,
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: I mean logistics, but also their mentors. Here's this old
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: They are all called pop for some reason, and Pop
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: gives you great information. And here's the other thing going on.
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  Speaker 2: The Army struggled for years to meet its recruitment goals.
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  Speaker 2: In twenty twenty two, the goal was sixty thousand new
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  Speaker 2: recruits and missed it. By fifteen thousand people. In twenty
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  Speaker 2: twenty three, the army again missed its target by fifteen
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  Speaker 2: thousand recruits.
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  Speaker 3: In twenty twenty four, it.
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  Speaker 2: Lowered its goal to fifty five thousand, and it did
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  Speaker 2: reach it by a very thin margin. However, last year,
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  Speaker 2: the best numbering years recruiting more than sixty two thousand recruits.
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  Speaker 2: It surpassed its goal of sixty one thousand.
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  Speaker 3: So why is that, Well, I gave you the reasons
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  Speaker 3: for it.
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  Speaker 2: Now, Pete Hegseth has given us the reason why recruits
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  Speaker 2: are such an increase. And what would you guess that
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  Speaker 2: our Secretary of Defense, Secretary of war, what is the
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  Speaker 2: sole reason that recruitment has gone up because of the
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  Speaker 2: tremendous leadership of our president and American young men and
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: women want to be part of this administration and its goals.
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  Speaker 2: Now that may be true, By the way, I have
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  Speaker 2: no idea. I'd sure like to see some studies. I'd
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: like to see some surveys. But if you ask the administration,
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  Speaker 2: the only reason that they're moving ahead with recruiting more,
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  Speaker 2: I have succeeded in recruiting more is because of the
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  Speaker 2: vast honor and simply they want to be part of it, right,
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: and it is an honor and we'll die. Now, it
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: used to be that during war. For example, during World
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  Speaker 2: War Two, they couldn't get enough recruits. We went from
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  Speaker 2: an army at the beginning of World War Two of
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  Speaker 2: two hundred thousand soldiers to having twelve million soldiers by
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: the time the war ended who had fought and were
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: part of the military services. But in those days, first
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: of all, there was conscription. But I don't even think
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: they needed conscription because if you see videos, you can
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: go on YouTube and see these centers, these recruitment centers.
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  Speaker 2: People were lining up by the hundreds, by the thousands
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: to join the army because that was America. Now it's
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: still America, but different reasons, different reasons.
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  Speaker 3: Okay.
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  Speaker 2: Now, if you go to school, have gone to school
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: and even high school, college, certainly you take tests and
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: in most cases it's an essay test.
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  Speaker 3: And what ends up happening.
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  Speaker 2: Since AI has become a big deal, of course AI
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  Speaker 2: is used, so you turn in an AI paper and
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: sometimes get away with it. AI is getting pretty sophisticated.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, there are ways of testing for AI. There
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  Speaker 2: are ways of trying to figure out if AI is
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: being used, but a lot of students slip through the cracks.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: One of the ways of knowing i AI is being
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: used is the paper is just too good for a
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  Speaker 2: college student. Then the professor's going on, this is just
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  Speaker 2: too good. So what they've moved to is oral exams.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Oral exams. And when I went to college, and I
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: went to a school in Canada, the school, Simon Fraser University,
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: used the Socratic method method. It was oral exams, and
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: it was the Oxford model. The teacher gave his lecture
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: and then you broke apart in rooms where the TA,
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: the teacher's assistant, who is a graduate student, would you talk,
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: and then you'd be graded on what you produced than
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: your understanding of the topic. They don't do that. By
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: the way, I don't remember one minute of it because
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: I was so stoned out of my mind the entire
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: time I was there. But that was the model. So
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: why oral exams. Well, if you're defending your topic, If
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: you're defending your position and it's an oral exam, AI
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: is not going to help you. You have to understand it.
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  Speaker 2: You have to have the analytic skills, you have to
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: be able to voice your opinion and facts and analysis,
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: and students are going, oh, that's a problem. That's really
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  Speaker 2: the way to learn. I mean, there is nothing better
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: to determine how much a student understands what is going
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  Speaker 2: on and cognitive skills, well, not cognitive skills, just a
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  Speaker 2: basic understanding analysis and the ability to communicate.
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  Speaker 3: Now, there are some problems with that. People are shy.
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  Speaker 2: Some people have a hard time talking about their topic
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: and they'd rather write about it.
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  Speaker 3: So there are issues either way.
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  Speaker 2: But the bottom line is a lot of schools, a
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  Speaker 2: lot of professors are going to the oral exam. Now
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: what gets interesting is what do you do, for example,
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  Speaker 2: an English exam? Right English class, and the teacher has
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: to read every single one of the papers now and
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: then has to give an oral exam.
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  Speaker 3: How long is the oral exam? Do two people sit
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: on the board?
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  Speaker 2: Now, if you look at, for example, becoming a medical examiner,
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  Speaker 2: part of it is oral exams. You're sitting in front
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  Speaker 2: of three or four doctor and they're asking you all
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  Speaker 2: kinds of questions and you'd better.
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  Speaker 3: Know your stuff. Law school, there are no oral exams.
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  Speaker 2: You simply take the bar exam, which is a combination
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: of essay as well as as a multiple choice, but
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: the essay is given to you there and you don't
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  Speaker 2: know what.
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  Speaker 3: The question is.
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  Speaker 2: And by the way, the fact that there are no
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: oral exams that make you defend your position is why
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: there's so many rotten lawyers out there.
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: Is want to point that out.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: I think there are a few rotten medical doctors in
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: comparison to rotten lawyers. Just my view of it, knowing
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: the legal profession. But is this a good idea?
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  Speaker 3: I think it is. It makes cheating a whole lot harder,
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  Speaker 3: and it makes students think.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: And if you have students entering society who don't think, man,
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: tell me that's not going to put modern society. Put
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: America yet another step behind other countries.
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: All right?
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: Coming up, American aviation is near collapse, completely collapsing, and
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: just as the people that are in line for five
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: hours at Chicago at O'Hare Airport, and we'll talk about
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: that coming up. KFI Am sixty.
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: You've been listening to the Bill Handle Show.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Catch my Show Monday through Friday six am to nine am,
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: and anytime on demand on the iHeartRadio app.