Latest / The Kevin Stone Podcast / Episode #42 "Daylight Saving Time Why are we still doing this?"

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Episode #42 "Daylight Saving Time Why are we still doing this?" · The Kevin Stone Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Some podcasts have experts. This is not one of those podcasts.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: This is one guy, a microphone, a cup of coffee,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: and absolutely no guarantee where any of this is going.
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  Speaker 1: From small town Arkansas to Washington, D.C. From politics and
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  Speaker 1: current events to history, space, faith, and whatever else happens
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: to get under his skin. He'll ask the questions. He'll
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: give you his opinion. And every once in a while,
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  Speaker 1: he might even know what he's talking about. No fancy degree,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: no corporate talking points, just an ordinary guy trying to
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  Speaker 1: make sense of an increasingly strange world. Ladies and gentlemen,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: this is the Kevin Stone Podcast.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Why are we fighting about this? I mean, surely we
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: have more important things to argue about. We're Americans. I'm
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: sure we can find something to fight about. But seriously,
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: daylight saving time? We're fighting over the clock? Okay, look,
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: here's daylight savings time without a Harvard degree. We've got
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: the clock set one way during part of the year.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: Then in the spring, we move it ahead one hour.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: That's daylight saving time. In the fall, we move it
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: back one hour, and that puts us back on standard time.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: We're not creating more daylight. Congress hasn't figured out how
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: to legislate the sun. We're just changing what the clock
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: says so more of the available daylight falls later in
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: the evening. And for most of us, I think the
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  Speaker 2: complaint is a whole lot simpler than all the stuff
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: we're going to get into in this episode. We're tired
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: of changing the stupid clocks. Twice a year, suddenly the
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: clock changes by an hour. Your sleep feels off. Your
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: schedule feels off. You get hungry at the wrong time.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: You wake up and your body thinks it's one time
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: while the clock says it's something else. After a few days,
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: most of us adjust and life goes on. But twice
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: a year, we go through this little ritual and everybody's
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: asking the same question. Why are we still doing this? Okay, fine.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: Let's stop changing the clocks. Sounds easy, right? Except we
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: just created another problem. Which time do we keep? Standard
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: time all year? Or daylight saving time all year? And
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: that's where this thing gets a whole lot more complicated
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  Speaker 2: than I thought it was. So let's say we all
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: agree on one thing. We're done changing the clocks twice
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  Speaker 2: a year. Problem solved, right? Well, no. Because now we
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: have to decide where to leave the clock. And we
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  Speaker 2: really only have two choices. Choice number one, permanent standard time.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: Standard time is basically the clock we're on during the winter.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: So when we fall back and everybody gets that extra hour,
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: that's standard time. If we made standard time permanent, we
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: would stay on that clock all year long. The easiest
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: way for me to think about it is more morning light,
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: less evening light. During the summer, compared with what we're
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: used to now, sunrise and sunset would both appear an
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: hour earlier by the clock. So if you're used to
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: seeing the sun set around 8.30 on a summer evening,
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: permanent standard time would make that roughly 7.30 instead. The
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: amount of daylight didn't change. The sun didn't change what
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: it was doing. All we did was shift the clock
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  Speaker 2: around the daylight. With standard time, we put more of
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  Speaker 2: that daylight toward the morning. With daylight saving time, we
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: shift the clock so more of that daylight shows up
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  Speaker 2: later in our day. We're not moving the sun, we're
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: moving the clock around the daylight. Choice number two, permanent
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: daylight saving time. The other choice is to keep daylight
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  Speaker 2: saving time, the clock we're on during the summer, and
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: never fall back, more evening light, less morning light. In
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: the summer, things would look pretty much like they do
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: now because we're already using daylight saving time. The big
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: difference shows up in the winter. If we kept daylight
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: saving time through the winter, sunrise and sunset would both
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: happen an hour later by the clock than they do
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  Speaker 2: under standard time. So you get more light at the
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: end of the day. But some winter mornings stay dark
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  Speaker 2: considerably longer. That's the whole argument in plain English. We're
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: not voting on how much sunshine America gets. We're arguing
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  Speaker 2: over where we want to put it on the clock.
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  Speaker 2: Do you want that hour of daylight earlier in the morning?
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  Speaker 2: Or would you rather have it later in the evening?
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  Speaker 2: Because you don't get both. And when you put it
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  Speaker 2: like that, permanent daylight saving time sounds pretty attractive. Who
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: doesn't want more daylight after work? But before we pick one,
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  Speaker 2: there's something we probably ought to know. We've tried permanent
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  Speaker 2: daylight saving time before, and that story gets interesting. Now
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  Speaker 2: here's something I didn't know when I started looking into this.
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  Speaker 2: We've already tried it. Back in 1973, the United States
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  Speaker 2: was dealing with an energy crisis. There was an Arab
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  Speaker 2: oil embargo, gasoline shortages, long lines at the gas station,
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  Speaker 2: and the federal government was looking for ways to conserve energy.
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  Speaker 2: And somebody said, essentially, what if we just stayed on
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  Speaker 2: daylight saving time? Congress passed the Emergency Daylight Saving Time
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  Speaker 2: Energy Conservation Act of 1973. The experiment took effect January 6, 1974.
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  Speaker 2: Remember what we talked about earlier? They didn't create another
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  Speaker 2: hour of sunshine. They shifted the clock around the daylight.
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  Speaker 2: The idea was, put more of our daylight at the
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  Speaker 2: end of the day, maybe people won't turn their lights
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  Speaker 2: on as early, and maybe we'll save some energy. On paper,
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: that doesn't sound completely crazy. But January showed up. And
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: if you shift that daylight toward the evening, you've got
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: to take that hour from somewhere. It came out of
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: the morning. Suddenly, a lot of Americans were going to
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: work in the dark. And more importantly, kids were going
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: to school in the dark. Okay, but maybe everybody being
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: aggravated was worth it, if we're saving a little energy, right?
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: Except the energy savings weren't nearly as dramatic as people
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: had hoped. A Department of Transportation evaluation reported electrical energy
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  Speaker 2: savings of roughly 0.75% to 1%. And here's the part
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  Speaker 2: that caught my attention. This wasn't supposed to be some
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: little weekend experiment. The trial was supposed to run from
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  Speaker 2: January 1974 until April of 1975, but the year-round part
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: didn't even make it through 1974. It started January 6th.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: By October, Congress had already changed the law, and on
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  Speaker 2: October 27th, Americans turned their clocks back to standard time.
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  Speaker 2: So after roughly nine and a half months of actually
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  Speaker 2: living with daylight saving time through the winter, Congress said essentially, okay,
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: we're putting standard time back for the winter. The overall
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: experiment continued, but the year-round part ended early. Now that
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  Speaker 2: doesn't automatically prove permanent daylight saving time is a bad idea.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: A lot has changed in 50 years. Our energy use,
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: our schools, transportation, lighting and work schedules. But it does
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  Speaker 2: tell us something important. This isn't just a theory. America
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: tried putting the clock there before. And once people actually
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  Speaker 2: lived with those dark winter mornings, the argument looked a
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  Speaker 2: whole lot different. Now this is where I went down
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  Speaker 2: a rabbit hole that I was not expecting. There are
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: lobbyists involved in daylight saving time. I thought we were
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: arguing about whether I had to change the clock on
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  Speaker 2: my microwave. Apparently, we've got professional organizations, trade groups, businesses,
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: medical groups, and lobbyists involved in this thing too. And
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  Speaker 2: when I say lobbying, don't automatically think somebody is walking
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: into a senator's office with a suitcase full of cash. Lobbying,
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: at its simplest, means an organization has an interest in
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: what Congress is doing. And they're trying to convince lawmakers
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  Speaker 2: to see the issue their way. They might meet with
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: congressional staff. They might provide research. They might send letters.
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  Speaker 2: They might hire professional lobbyists who already know the lawmakers
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  Speaker 2: and how Washington works. Basically, they're saying, hey, before you
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: vote on this, here's how it affects us, and here's
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: what we'd like you to do. Federal lobbying disclosures naming
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: the current Sunshine Protection Act include organizations connected with golf, airlines, broadcasters, insurance, media,
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  Speaker 2: farm and real estate. And once I started thinking about it,
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: I realized something. Of course these people care about what
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: time it gets dark. Golf cares because daylight is part
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  Speaker 2: of the product. Airlines care about schedules and timekeeping. Broadcasters
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  Speaker 2: care about when people are awake and consuming media. Farmers
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  Speaker 2: have their own concerns. Insurance companies look at accidents and risk. Suddenly,
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  Speaker 2: this stupid little clock argument isn't quite so little anymore.
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  Speaker 2: But businesses aren't the only people trying to influence this.
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  Speaker 2: On the other side, you've got sleep scientists and medical
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  Speaker 2: organizations arguing that if we're going to quit changing the clock,
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  Speaker 2: standard time better matches human body clocks. And that's when
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  Speaker 2: this finally started making sense to me. We're not really
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  Speaker 2: fighting about changing the clock anymore. The fight is over
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  Speaker 2: where we should leave it. One group says, give us
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  Speaker 2: that daylight in the evening. Another group says, no, morning
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  Speaker 2: light is better for our bodies and our health. Businesses
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: see economic consequences. Doctors see health consequences. Parents see dark
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  Speaker 2: school mornings. Golf sees another hour people can be on
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: the course. And all of them have a reason to
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: walk into Washington and say, put the clock here. Okay,
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  Speaker 2: so now we know there are people actually lobbying Congress
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  Speaker 2: over where we want to put the daylight hour, which
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  Speaker 2: raises another question. What exactly is Congress trying to pass?
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  Speaker 2: That's where we get into something called the Sunshine Protection Act.
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  Speaker 2: So all this brings us to the thing they're actually
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  Speaker 2: fighting about in Washington right now. The Sunshine Protection Act.
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  Speaker 2: And first of all, that's a fantastic Washington name. Because
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  Speaker 2: Congress isn't protecting the sunshine. The sun's going to come
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: up tomorrow whether Congress gets the paperwork done or not.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: What this bill actually does is pretty simple. It would
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: make daylight saving time permanent. No more spring forward. No
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: more fall back. We'd pick the daylight saving time clock
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  Speaker 2: and leave it there. The current House bill passed in
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: July of 2026 by a vote of 308 for it
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  Speaker 2: and 117 against it. But it has stalled in the Senate.
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  Speaker 2: And remember, this isn't the same thing as simply saying
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: quit changing the clocks. There are two ways to quit
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  Speaker 2: changing the clocks. We could stay on standard time or
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: we could stay on daylight saving time. This bill picks
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: daylight saving time. President Trump wants this thing passed. Senator
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: Tom Cotton from right here in Arkansas doesn't. And that's
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: interesting because these two guys aren't from the opposite side
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: of the political universe. They're both Republicans. And Cotton has
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: generally been a Trump ally. But on this issue, Cotton
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: is basically saying no. Trump argues that people don't want
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: to change clocks twice a year and prefers more afternoon daylight.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: Cotton's concern takes us directly back to our earlier section.
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: His concern isn't really July, it's January. He has warned
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  Speaker 2: that permanent daylight saving time would mean very late winter
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: sunrises in Arkansas, with children traveling to school before sunrise.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: And he has pointed out the 1974 experiment. And then
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: this thing went from a disagreement over clocks to whatever
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: they're doing now. On October 3rd, President Trump went after
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: Cotton publicly on social media, accused him of holding up
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: the bill, encouraged people in Arkansas to call him, and
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: posted what Trump said was Cotton's personal cell phone number.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: Cotton didn't change his position. And this is where I
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: started asking a different question. Why are we turning this
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: into Trump versus Tom Cotton? Because after everything we just
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: talked about, Cotton didn't invent this argument. There are medical
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: organizations concerned about permanent daylight savings time. There are people
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: concerned about school children and dark mornings. We tried something
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: very similar in 1974. And on the other side, there
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: are businesses and organizations lobbying for more evening daylight. So
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: maybe instead of asking whose side are you on, Trump
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: or Cotton, we ought to ask, what does the evidence
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: actually say? Because somebody yelling louder doesn't move the sunrise.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: So after all of that, we're right back where we started.
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: Let's say tomorrow everybody in Washington agrees we're done changing
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  Speaker 2: the clocks. Okay, where do we put it? Do we
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: leave it on standard time and have more daylight in
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: the morning? Or do we leave it on daylight saving
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: time and have more daylight in the evening? Because remember,
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: we're not moving the sun. We're moving the clock around
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: the daylight. And whichever one we choose, somebody isn't going
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: to like it. And after looking into all this, here's
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: where I land. Leave it alone. I don't particularly enjoy
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: changing the clocks twice a year either. It screws me
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: up for a few days. I'd be perfectly happy never
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: doing it again. But we already tried putting the country
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: on year-round daylight saving time back in 1974. People didn't
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: like what happened during those dark winter mornings, and Congress
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: backed away from it. So now, 50-something years later, we're
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: arguing about it again. And I'm sitting here thinking, why?
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: Sometimes there's a difference between something being annoying and something
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: being broken. Changing the clock is annoying. For a few days,
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: we're tired. We're hungry at the wrong time. Half the
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: clocks in the house are right, the other half are wrong.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: And nobody remembers how to change the one in the car.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: Then we adjust. We've been doing it for years. Is
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: that really a problem big enough that we need Congress
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: to completely change the system? Maybe permanent daylight saving time
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: would work better this time. Maybe permanent standard time would
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: be better. There are intelligent people making arguments for both.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: But from where I'm sitting, just because we can change
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: something doesn't necessarily mean we should. Sometimes the answer to
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: an inconvenience isn't another law. Sometimes you look at something
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: that's been working imperfectly for decades and say, you know what?
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: Leave the clock alone. I'll change the stupid thing twice
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: a year. But that's where I land. What about you?
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: Keep changing the clocks? Permanent standard time? Permanent daylight saving time?
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: I put a poll together so you can tell me
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: what you think. Because apparently this is what we've come
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: to in America. We're voting on what time the sun
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: comes up. The sun, of course, was unavailable for comment.