Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Jon Arnold, Andrew Batty & Luke Sims-Jenkins about their choice of The Invisible Enemy 1/4

Transcript

Talks to Jon Arnold, Andrew Batty & Luke Sims-Jenkins about their choice of The Invisible Enemy 1/4 · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a blunt. Pen knife, we're doing quicker.
• 0:37
  Welcome. Oh fuck what we're doing.
• 0:39
  We're not doing it to a club. I know I was about to say
• 0:42
  welcome back to the hamster Book club because I'm staring at you
• 0:45
  free. Welcome back to our hamster with
• 0:47
  a blood pen knife, The Doctor Who Commentary podcast.
• 0:52
  Very confusing today because I'm staring at three of the most
• 0:55
  handsome book clubbers. It is my pleasure to know.
• 0:59
  Yeah, you may as well look around you, Luke Simps Jenkins.
• 1:03
  Luke is here with us today, would you believe?
• 1:06
  Also the fabulous John Arnold. Hello, John.
• 1:08
  Hello. Andrew, how you doing all?
• 1:12
  Right. Yeah, all right.
• 1:13
  You've got a glass bubbly in your hands.
• 1:15
  I have only the best to to enjoy with our prawn buffet.
• 1:21
  Well, I mean, we're doing the invisible winning today and just
• 1:24
  sort of preamp this. Andrew sent us all a photograph
• 1:27
  of a Sainsbury's prawn ring. Have you ever had one of those?
• 1:32
  No, but I remember the Kerry Katona advert.
• 1:34
  Oh yeah, maybe classic. How much of her nose was still
• 1:37
  available at that point? Fellas, Obviously this is the
• 1:43
  first time we've done a commentary together.
• 1:46
  Usually, you know, diving our noses into books and that
• 1:49
  fighting each other as to who creases the spines or not.
• 1:53
  But here we are today to dip our toes into Graham Williams,
• 1:57
  Doctor Who, which is our personal favorite period of
• 2:00
  mine. But I would like to ask you all
• 2:02
  first very quickly before we go into Episode 1 because there's a
• 2:05
  lot to discuss in this story. It's where do you fall with
• 2:08
  Graham Williams because it can be a contentious period of
• 2:12
  Doctor Who. Let's go to John first.
• 2:16
  I'm kind of, I was kind of a little too young to remember it,
• 2:20
  although I'm told by my mum I recognise Tom Baker's voice.
• 2:22
  I was 3, so I was watching this, but I don't, I virtually
• 2:26
  remembered nothing. My first memories of Doctor Who
• 2:28
  asked of death. So I've kind, it's kind of my
• 2:33
  really early time period. And yeah, I, I did fold that
• 2:38
  kind of stuff in the early 80s where it was all Williams is
• 2:43
  terrible. You know, it's nothing compared
• 2:44
  to the magnificence of Hinchcliffe and, you know, as
• 2:48
  I've grown older and wiser fan, that's all load of bollocks,
• 2:51
  isn't it really? It's such a lot of fun.
• 2:53
  Generally you get in scriptwriters who and editors
• 2:59
  who aren't that interested in just ripping off Hammer films or
• 3:02
  old horror films, they come in, they're interested in
• 3:05
  literature, in jokes, in fun. So yeah, I'm, I'm right.
• 3:10
  You know, I'm a canine kid. What about you then, Luke?
• 3:17
  I would have seen mixed episodes of the Williams era until I was
• 3:21
  maybe 16 when my dealer Michael pretty much got me all of Tom
• 3:28
  Bacon. I could watch it in in order.
• 3:31
  What? Did you actually do for that?
• 3:35
  No, I don't mean like that. I mean, how much did you have to
• 3:38
  give? Oh, good.
• 3:39
  Great. Michael, I'm so sorry for
• 3:41
  slaughtering them. Blank tapes, I bring in blank
• 3:47
  tapes so he didn't live too far from me either.
• 3:49
  So, you know, quick train ride blank tapes and then you know,
• 3:55
  I'd pick him up in a few weeks time or something like that.
• 3:58
  So that's how I saw pretty much all of classic food that I
• 4:01
  hadn't seen already. And some of those VHS tapes
• 4:05
  became my go to's when I was relaxed, relaxing or trying to
• 4:09
  sleep. I need something on when I'm
• 4:10
  trying to sleep. So you know, the episode we're
• 4:14
  about to watch became one of them androids of Tara as well
• 4:18
  and the stones of blood. Things like that became just
• 4:22
  just because I liked all the voices and stuff and just it's
• 4:25
  just so much fun. It's easy to fall asleep.
• 4:27
  So you know, I like the moment you.
• 4:29
  Absorb things when you when you're sleeping.
• 4:32
  I like to think now every line of dialogue's in your head
• 4:34
  somewhere and regurgitate it on queue as we watch this thing.
• 4:39
  Exactly. Especially when the subtitles
• 4:41
  are on the screen too so. I'll keep hearing this story
• 4:43
  about Australians getting all of these John Pertwee and Tom Baker
• 4:47
  stories, you know, back when we had nothing at all.
• 4:51
  They used to be repeated Tom Baker's.
• 4:53
  I don't know about Pertwee's, maybe I was too young, but I
• 4:56
  remember Tom Baker's every afternoon on the afternoon show,
• 5:00
  there'd be some dude hosting and it'd always be a Tom Baker story
• 5:03
  on there. And I'd already seen what
• 5:06
  Davison, thanks to like, early morning repeats before school.
• 5:10
  Well, really early morning, but 530 or something like that.
• 5:13
  So yeah, I guess we got lucky. A lot of the videos we had in
• 5:17
  the like 80s and early 90s were from Australia because the The
• 5:20
  Inferno 1 was infamous because it was an advert saying about
• 5:24
  little green men and about the Sydney store.
• 5:30
  I think as a sort of revenge thing, they should have stopped
• 5:32
  showing Farscape in Australia and repeated it loads over here.
• 5:36
  All the tapes of that, Andrew, the Graham Williams era.
• 5:41
  Yeah, well, when I was a kid, I loved the Key to Time era.
• 5:46
  I loved Destiny of the Daleks. But then I think just that sort
• 5:50
  of like, fan wisdom bollocks, like just sort of seeped its way
• 5:53
  into my brain. And I actually, apart from
• 5:56
  Horror of Bang Rock, I didn't watch any of Season 15 until I
• 6:00
  was an adult just because I was like, oh, this is the rubbish
• 6:03
  season. So I'm not going to buy it on
• 6:04
  video. So I just sort of picked them up
• 6:06
  towards like the tail end of the DVD era.
• 6:09
  So yeah, I, I really enjoy it. Like it's really fun, but this
• 6:14
  season in particular is just not like it's not one of the one
• 6:17
  which which is like embedded in my brain.
• 6:19
  So I feel like each time I watch The Invisible Enemy, it's kind
• 6:23
  of new to me 'cause it's just, it's not, it's not one of those
• 6:26
  imprinted ones. Well, I can promise you you're
• 6:28
  gonna make no sense of it today with the three of us talking
• 6:30
  all. Over it with you.
• 6:34
  But for my part, I I've had a bit of a revelation in later
• 6:38
  years in that it's probably my favorite period of Classic Who.
• 6:41
  Certainly the key to time is my favorite season of Classic Who.
• 6:44
  And I just love, I love the pure entertainment value of it, the
• 6:49
  the great character acting in it, brilliant jokes in it.
• 6:53
  And I do like Hinchcliffe a lot, but I think it can be a bit
• 6:56
  samey. And I think starting here, this
• 6:58
  story we're doing today, they started sort of kicking off in
• 7:01
  other directions and, and being a bit more sort of creatively
• 7:04
  freewheeling. And I love that.
• 7:07
  Well, should we see what they've got to offer then on the well
• 7:10
  with the nucleus of the swarm? Is this where we all get our
• 7:14
  novelisations out and read together?
• 7:16
  Is that yes, we actually want to Doctor?
• 7:17
  Who we're going to watch. In pictures.
• 7:20
  But we've got to try and all press play at the same time.
• 7:23
  Good luck everyone. I'll count us in in 54321.
• 7:31
  Off we go and we go now. It's just like hanging out.
• 7:36
  Hanging out with your mates on a Saturday night in it and
• 7:39
  watching Oh no, it's Friday. Off on a Friday?
• 7:42
  No, no, it's Saturday. It's Saturday morning, so you
• 7:45
  know. Oh yeah.
• 7:45
  Sorry, Luke. Yeah, this is about the time
• 7:48
  charity and I will wake up for any new Doctor Who that is aired
• 7:51
  in England and watch it so. I mean, given the choice of the
• 7:55
  world, this is better than anything you're going to see
• 7:57
  nowadays, let's be honest. Oh sorry, sorry, I didn't say
• 7:59
  that. Oh, can I ask you all the
• 8:02
  question straight away? Right.
• 8:03
  Have any of you seen this with the new special effects?
• 8:06
  No, I didn't turn them on because I was like, it already
• 8:09
  has pretty good special effects, why would I?
• 8:12
  Is this the London? I might be well for Blake 7.
• 8:17
  Yeah. It does look a bit like, look at
• 8:20
  those, look at those meteors coming towards the camera.
• 8:22
  They're not bad. Yeah, it's the same effect.
• 8:25
  Maybe from what Mission to Destiny or something.
• 8:29
  Maybe that effect too, I don't mind.
• 8:32
  Baffles me is that they've replaced the brilliant model
• 8:35
  work in this with dreadful CGI in those new versions.
• 8:39
  I'm like, yeah, it don't look better, it looks worse.
• 8:42
  Yeah, the model work was part of the point with this.
• 8:44
  They want to show that off. So yeah, it's one of those
• 8:48
  stories that didn't need it. Now the most contentious thing
• 8:51
  about this is do we know Star Wars has come in?
• 8:54
  Are we heading down the Space opera route because Star Wars is
• 8:57
  on the way? I don't think they'd seen it had
• 9:00
  they yet. It's just this is late 77.
• 9:05
  It must have heard rumblings by now.
• 9:07
  Yeah, I'm trying to remember when it came in America.
• 9:10
  So a lot of them have definitely seen it.
• 9:14
  I, I think Graham Williams definitely saw it before the
• 9:17
  year it was officially released, wasn't it?
• 9:19
  I think they had a screening ahead of time.
• 9:21
  Oh, OK. What came out sort of ashen
• 9:23
  faced of like? Yes, literally.
• 9:26
  How are we going to compete with this?
• 9:28
  Gay robots. I mean, there's quite a gay
• 9:32
  robot in this, I'd say. Exactly, Yeah.
• 9:35
  I like the what's with the green around the neck and I think.
• 9:39
  They're really. Cool, I really like.
• 9:42
  These faces. It's like they got the gloves
• 9:43
  have wings on them or something. Well, it's the 70s, darling.
• 9:47
  Come on, you. Need to make those cratterize
• 9:51
  though. You've got to put a helmet on
• 9:52
  and like. They do put their little helmets
• 9:54
  on. Yeah, if the gloves are open
• 9:57
  like that, won't the air just get into them?
• 10:01
  Now look special Space fabric, Luke, Yes.
• 10:03
  Never let get in the way of aesthetics, all right?
• 10:07
  It's far more important what you look like than you live.
• 10:11
  I'd rather die in a snazzy oh look at this.
• 10:15
  Look at. That the little lightning bolts,
• 10:18
  That's brilliant. Identified Organism.
• 10:23
  It does look like a puddle of calm though, doesn't it?
• 10:25
  That clown, I mean. It is.
• 10:28
  Spaceship is being literally subsumed in semen, yes.
• 10:33
  I remember all the times that lightning has struck my gum.
• 10:39
  Is that what you call it? Turns out like you can strike
• 10:44
  twice. Hey.
• 10:46
  Well done. On that Oh.
• 10:49
  God, I mean, if things weren't sexy enough, here's Leila in a
• 10:52
  shammy level. OK, Leila's costume Disgust.
• 10:57
  Perfection. Yeah, there's, that's a
• 11:01
  heterosexual view, right? Yes, very much.
• 11:04
  I'd seen a little bit of Leila before, Michael Bitter.
• 11:10
  Seeing it all in context as a 16 year old.
• 11:14
  Yeah, I like Leila a lot. I.
• 11:17
  Bet you did. That hat really goes well with
• 11:19
  that outfit, doesn't it? Ashley does it looks really
• 11:22
  nice. Doesn't she wear a scarf at some
• 11:25
  point this season as well? Maybe so.
• 11:29
  Some makers, I could be making it up.
• 11:31
  Sorry, Andrew, you were going to say that?
• 11:33
  I never, I never really like thought twice about the costume
• 11:36
  when I was a kid because, you know, that was just what Leela
• 11:38
  wears. And that's like, I think because
• 11:41
  she's got this sort of innocence to her.
• 11:43
  She's not like sexy, sexy in the way that she behaves.
• 11:46
  It doesn't. I don't know.
• 11:48
  It just didn't register for me as a kid.
• 11:49
  But looking at it now, like she, like she's, yeah, there's hard.
• 11:54
  Naked. Yeah, yeah.
• 11:56
  You just you wouldn't do that nowadays would.
• 11:58
  You. No, no.
• 11:59
  But Louise Jameson isn't playing it sexy, is she?
• 12:02
  No. She's playing it childlike, but
• 12:05
  in some ways that's a bit more problematic.
• 12:10
  Well, I think she plays it sort of unselfconscious, yes, though
• 12:13
  she just kind of has this, like, confidence about her.
• 12:18
  And it's kind of like, I'm Leela.
• 12:19
  Yeah, I'm in a leather swimsuit. What the fuck are you going to
• 12:21
  do about it? Look at this model work going
• 12:24
  across the planet and then coming down onto the Titan base.
• 12:27
  I think this looks really good. I love the little, the little
• 12:31
  satellite dishes going around, but this would look out of place
• 12:35
  in Jerry Anderson, right? Yeah, and I feel like this one
• 12:38
  always had a reputation for being like cheap and shit, but
• 12:42
  it looks great. And they have to do a lot like
• 12:45
  this story goes in some unusual directions, right?
• 12:48
  Like they do have to realise quite a bit here.
• 12:52
  Oh, oh, it did wobble on the string then a little bit.
• 12:54
  Did you notice a bit drunk? It'll be like Andrew Pilot in
• 13:00
  the spaceship at the end of this call.
• 13:01
  All right, he's going. To get breathalysed.
• 13:08
  What Before We episode 4? I'll go.
• 13:10
  Yeah, yeah. I've.
• 13:13
  Been made, Yeah, Swearing. Swearing it.
• 13:16
  By the way, Andrew, since you haven't seen this for a while
• 13:20
  and you're drinking, have a drink every time you hear
• 13:22
  contact has been made. Oh my God, I've walked into that
• 13:26
  one, haven't I? Have you got a magnum of
• 13:28
  champagne? Yeah.
• 13:30
  It'll be under the table by the end of episode 1.
• 13:35
  I mean, even this look, the POV shot of the ship going along the
• 13:39
  interior here, the airlock. I don't know, I just think
• 13:42
  there's a, like, I took a quick look at the Doctor Who ratings
• 13:45
  guide. I know why did I do that before,
• 13:47
  just to get an idea of sort of fan opinion on mass with like 20
• 13:51
  reviews or so. And just everyone was going on
• 13:54
  about how badly realised this was.
• 13:56
  And I think it's baloney. I yeah, there's things that
• 13:58
  don't work, but there are things at work as well.
• 14:01
  It's because you're coming off the Hinchcliffe era and there
• 14:04
  was this desperation to see it as the Williams era, as inferior
• 14:08
  Hinchcliffe. Whatever you think of the
• 14:10
  stories, they, it's produced to the hilt, you know, it's, it's
• 14:13
  almost all stylish. It's, you know, they haven't
• 14:16
  skimped on it, but Hinch, they've spent a real ton of
• 14:19
  money on it and Williams did not have that budget.
• 14:24
  And you can figure that in points in this story of.
• 14:27
  Course, well, I think they struggle in this story because
• 14:29
  it's such a choppy script and it's basically a different
• 14:33
  location each week. Like it's just really thinly
• 14:36
  spread, but like this first episode, I think all of the sets
• 14:40
  are pretty good. Or the tight and base.
• 14:42
  Yeah, yeah, you can see how the window can't you on the
• 14:44
  landscape, alright. Mainly, it's a perspective
• 14:46
  backdrop. Hanging out behind green screens
• 14:48
  right here. Look at the mound on the right
• 14:50
  falling down. Looks like he's yawning, doesn't
• 14:54
  he? Why did they kill those guys?
• 14:58
  They could have contacted has been made of them and I guess
• 15:01
  the BBC budget didn't allow for an extra 3.
• 15:04
  Soldiers or something could. Have contacted those 3 did they
• 15:08
  or something do? You know I had a one night stand
• 15:10
  with a fella in Brighton once, right?
• 15:12
  And I woke up in the morning and my face looked a bit like that.
• 15:14
  No, I'm joking. I'm joking.
• 15:16
  I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
• 15:19
  That's the last one I'll do about.
• 15:21
  Really, really don't make Michael Sheed.
• 15:25
  Michael Sheed Klaxon. He's awesome in this.
• 15:29
  Do you know what Toby Haido calls himself on a hamster?
• 15:33
  He goes. I'm the Michael Sheed of a
• 15:34
  hamster. A blood pen knife like Michael
• 15:36
  Sheed at convention. Every time you ask me, I will
• 15:39
  say yes. Michael, look at him.
• 15:42
  Putting though, he's putting his glass down on the computer
• 15:45
  bench. That's not That's not smart,
• 15:47
  though. Did you, did you guys know this
• 15:49
  was Michael Shea's favorite Doctor Who story?
• 15:52
  Really. Famously in Doctor Who magazine,
• 15:54
  he went. Was that the one with Louise
• 15:55
  Jameson? Yes.
• 16:00
  I'm just gonna see why. Just looked up Michael shared
• 16:03
  and in this story. How old do you think he was?
• 16:07
  Oh God, 40. 5. No, he's younger.
• 16:10
  I. Bet he's 55, I'm gonna say.
• 16:12
  I mean he looks 50 but go. On he was 39.
• 16:16
  Wow. But he looks next to you.
• 16:20
  I've got five years on him. You think you're worried?
• 16:25
  Geez. Oh, bless.
• 16:29
  Oh, what do you think about? Is it the phonetics on the wall
• 16:33
  exit? You know, the way everything's
• 16:34
  written, how it's spelled. I think it's cool.
• 16:37
  Oh. Yeah.
• 16:38
  I like it. The funniest ones with like
• 16:40
  isolation is SHUN or something isn't it?
• 16:45
  It's better for kids. Future well.
• 16:47
  It's on their It's on their chest belts too.
• 16:49
  You can see their names on the chest.
• 16:52
  Belt does the mutants pull something similar as well if I
• 16:55
  remember. Oh.
• 16:56
  It's Bob and Dave again, isn't? It Yeah, there you go.
• 16:58
  This is what it is. You know we.
• 17:00
  Were talking about that font. Something's happened to me
• 17:02
  that's really bad, like. The law of consonantal shift as
• 17:07
  state of decay tells us that's. Right.
• 17:10
  You know, we're talking about Leela's costume, these
• 17:13
  spaceships, these space suits, like, they're very much designed
• 17:17
  to draw the eye to the ass and the crotch, aren't they?
• 17:20
  You've got like this. Maybe for you, Andrew, I've
• 17:22
  never once. It's just.
• 17:25
  This sort of like piping which frames the crotch and the bum.
• 17:30
  It's I. Can't wait to go back to those
• 17:32
  characters now. I was going to say I'm.
• 17:35
  Not convinced by Jill's argument yet.
• 17:37
  I'm never convinced he turned that a chance to look at the
• 17:38
  pasta, but. Although nothing it's worse than
• 17:41
  those underpants on the outside and sees the death is it
• 17:44
  they're. The worst?
• 17:46
  I like saying Leela writing just before, just to show a little
• 17:49
  bit of character progression that the Doctor's been teaching
• 17:52
  her things, so she's just writing her name on blackboard.
• 17:55
  Oh, writing. I heard writing.
• 17:57
  Sorry. We've got to get off this tone.
• 18:01
  What? So obviously possession was a
• 18:03
  big thing in the Hinchley theory.
• 18:05
  Yeah, and it was a point that was made on the season 15
• 18:07
  strictly, that this is sort of like the ultimate possession
• 18:10
  story because it's the Doctor Who's possessed now.
• 18:13
  It's sort of like the the zenith of possessions.
• 18:16
  How well do you think that's dumb?
• 18:18
  Because there's a lot of it's done in this episode, isn't it?
• 18:22
  I think it's it's done. I like it.
• 18:25
  I think it's a lot of fun. Besides you also get the clone
• 18:28
  doctor to counterbalance the evil doctors as well.
• 18:30
  And besides, you get like 5 seconds of evil doctor and then
• 18:34
  he's unconscious for most of it, isn't he?
• 18:37
  So it's not until like the end of the season you get that full.
• 18:41
  Is he really evil? Kind of Tom Baker, but this is
• 18:43
  like that little glimpse. Tom's like the one actor you can
• 18:48
  convince that can convince me that the Doctor would be totally
• 18:51
  evil. But there's a great scene at the
• 18:54
  end of this episode, isn't it, where he's hunting Leela through
• 18:56
  the Titan base with the gum? You know, the camera sort of
• 18:59
  following him around. Dryer.
• 19:01
  At the hedge, right? Sorry, yeah.
• 19:04
  Hair drives are an offensive weapon, you know, in the year
• 19:06
  4735 or wherever we are now. And for like hair curlers and
• 19:11
  Blake 7, you know, you know, definitely.
• 19:14
  It straightens, curls and decapitates.
• 19:17
  Are you guys, and I'm going to throw it out to each of you now,
• 19:21
  are you guys a fan of Bob Baker and Dave Martin stories as a
• 19:26
  whole? Let's go to John.
• 19:29
  Yeah, because they've got big ideas.
• 19:31
  I don't think they all fit in a Doctor Who story or what the
• 19:35
  budget can achieve. But, you know, when I just
• 19:37
  drink, we have the three doctors.
• 19:38
  That's always been a favorite. It's like a little chick
• 19:41
  imprinting of, you know, a mother imprinting on the chick
• 19:44
  there. So yeah.
• 19:45
  And I just do love the cause of Axos for the whole psychedelic
• 19:48
  stuff. Oh.
• 19:50
  Me too, Andrew. I don't know, I don't think any
• 19:54
  of their stories are like favourites of mine, but they're
• 19:58
  not. I don't hate them either.
• 19:59
  They're sort of like middling and a little bit flawed but
• 20:02
  always kind of interesting and weird, but usually sort of
• 20:07
  despite the fact they were super experienced, just seemed to have
• 20:12
  no sense of what ABBC job budget can achieve.
• 20:15
  He says Bob Baker is on the documentary for this.
• 20:18
  I watched it before we came to the court.
• 20:19
  When he goes, you know, we like to push them at the Doctor Who
• 20:23
  production office. Every time we brought brought a
• 20:26
  new script, we like to sort of push them out of their comfort
• 20:28
  zone. Yeah.
• 20:29
  All right. Well done.
• 20:30
  It's like the opposite approach Christopher Bailey took, right?
• 20:33
  He saw Kinder and he's like, oh, OK, Then he wrote Snake Dance.
• 20:37
  He's like, I know what to expect now.
• 20:39
  And it seems it has this. I like Kinder more, but I like
• 20:43
  the I can understand why people like snake dance.
• 20:46
  Are you a Bob and Dave? Stan, Luke.
• 20:49
  No, no, at least. You're on.
• 20:52
  I have pooped on on them quite a lot on the strictly comments as
• 20:56
  well, but for whatever reason, I like this in underworld.
• 21:00
  I just, I can just they're just my nighttime comfort things and
• 21:04
  I can just, I know I can see the faults, especially in
• 21:07
  Underworld, but I just enjoy these.
• 21:10
  So for whatever reason, Bob and Dave, Dave, they do hit for me
• 21:15
  sometimes. Plus I love canine so.
• 21:18
  Yeah. Even as a teenager who liked his
• 21:21
  edgy new adventures, I still saw canine.
• 21:24
  I was like, Yep, robot dogs are awesome.
• 21:26
  Like. I always feel like Terror 6 was
• 21:29
  right in that Bob Baker and Dave Martin could always give them,
• 21:32
  like, bouncy dialogue. Usually the dialogue's quite fun
• 21:35
  in their stories. We're all together COO, COO,
• 21:37
  COO, you know that it's fun dialogue and yeah, you're right,
• 21:40
  full of ideas and ambition. But it's almost always the Bob
• 21:44
  and Dave stories where the productions just let them down
• 21:47
  every single time. Something like the mutants, you
• 21:50
  know? And all those claustrophobic
• 21:51
  sets and that miserable quarry, they're in, in that.
• 21:55
  And the three doctors, I mean, what was going on with those
• 21:57
  sets and the three doctors, those pantomime sets?
• 22:00
  Sorry, John. I can give you just this once
• 22:03
  maybe. Thank you.
• 22:06
  It just man's on his way. We saw through the TARDIS doors
• 22:09
  there. Outside.
• 22:12
  You saw like the from the console the doors were open onto
• 22:15
  like just a black nothing. Yeah, and there's people outside
• 22:19
  waiting there. It's like, come on, guys.
• 22:22
  Yeah, do. You think there's a nice
• 22:23
  contrast with the Titan base and then the hospital later, because
• 22:26
  this sort of all shadows and pipes and things like that and
• 22:30
  stone, it seems to be literally hewn out of the the rock.
• 22:33
  But they're on, Yeah. It's nice and industrial, isn't
• 22:37
  it? It's a really nice contrast.
• 22:40
  Can you still feel home script editing this then?
• 22:43
  Yeah, this has a vibe of those possession stories as well.
• 22:48
  But this is the guy who script edited Planet of Evil as well.
• 22:51
  So you know it's but you know this is a way better.
• 22:55
  And maybe The thing is, you could change the tone of this.
• 22:58
  You know, if you moved it a year earlier, I'd give it to, I don't
• 23:01
  know, Dave Maloney or something. It's very much in keeping with
• 23:05
  that Holmes, Holmes, Edgecliff era.
• 23:08
  It's, you know, it's just a case of the production is different.
• 23:11
  It's it's really well as fast it was.
• 23:12
  It's kind of that limb, no period where there's change of
• 23:14
  production team. We don't quite know how it's
• 23:17
  going. To go oh, that's right,
• 23:20
  everyone's been poached. Interestingly, Paul in the
• 23:23
  Strictly episode said that episode 2 is basically the arc
• 23:26
  in space. It's a virus in a sterile
• 23:29
  atmosphere. It's just the tone of it that's
• 23:31
  different. Yeah, and it's better in the arc
• 23:35
  in space, let's face it. Why did Tom Baker open the
• 23:40
  TARDIS door then, and then shut it, and then open it again and
• 23:43
  come out? Was that just a bit of business?
• 23:47
  In my head cannon, he's been possessed by the thing and he's
• 23:50
  fighting it, so he's not sure whether to leave it Open,
• 23:52
  closed, open, close I. Don't know.
• 23:53
  Yeah. I think that's how it's in
• 23:55
  globalization from memory. And Leela says there's evil like
• 23:58
  that. So it's like.
• 24:00
  I mean, there's our body just there, yes.
• 24:02
  Yeah. Her instincts were on point.
• 24:08
  Always where it goes, whatever happens.
• 24:09
  Don't want? Oh bugger it, she's gone
• 24:10
  already. Tom looking disapproving.
• 24:18
  But I don't. I don't that is a confusing map.
• 24:21
  There's not, not even a you are here.
• 24:25
  The yellow BLOB or the other yellow BLOB?
• 24:29
  That's all I'll say when I look at any map and that sounds.
• 24:31
  Empty, you know, Oh. God, all that, that weird makeup
• 24:36
  around their faces. It is old, isn't it?
• 24:38
  It's like fish scales. Yeah.
• 24:42
  I mean, it's supposed to be prawny.
• 24:43
  It don't look too prawny to me. I'll get very prawny in episode
• 24:48
  4. It's a good job and not dirty
• 24:50
  minded about this at all isn't? It well, no quiet, Yeah, let's
• 24:54
  see. You can see how the window there
• 24:56
  onto the surface. I'm convinced.
• 25:01
  Yeah, that's really cool. Of no importance.
• 25:08
  That's because Leader's the reject.
• 25:10
  I'm surprised he didn't pull an Oscar wild gag there.
• 25:13
  Who, Tom? Yeah.
• 25:18
  No, I think he does possess, though, quite well.
• 25:20
  You know, that sort of blank faced.
• 25:22
  That's how we spent most of the horror of fan rock, anyway.
• 25:27
  Energy goes, doesn't it? They've just started on to the
• 25:30
  breeding chat about breeding in this story.
• 25:36
  We're seeing an awful lot of eggs in the last episode, don't
• 25:38
  we? Resting on a bed of slime.
• 25:43
  It's just so. What is Michael Shear doing in
• 25:47
  the freezer? Is that where he shows the eyes?
• 25:50
  Yeah. What is his face?
• 25:52
  Look at it. It's like.
• 25:58
  The breeding through. His face, neck and chest, yeah.
• 26:01
  Yeah, but like, I mean, if I was going to hide somewhere, the
• 26:04
  freezer would not be my first choice.
• 26:08
  No, I'd love Tom's stillness with this, with the way he's
• 26:11
  possessed. They take some of the ideas from
• 26:14
  this for the invasion of time as well, like like the Varden's
• 26:18
  travelling through electricity and stuff.
• 26:20
  Well, the nucleus can can affect you through all sorts of.
• 26:26
  Circuits like you say, Tom's performance as well in the
• 26:28
  invasion of time where he's so still and then he just bursts
• 26:31
  into anger appoints, doesn't he? Oh look, no wonder Michael
• 26:35
  Sheared loved this story. Look at him here.
• 26:36
  Yeah, Oh. Yes, please stroke my arm.
• 26:39
  Leela, come on now. Oh, quick, Andrew's got we could
• 26:42
  be as rude as we like. We'll be back in a minute.
• 26:45
  At least. At least he's keeping his eye
• 26:47
  lying there. That's what they got to.
• 26:49
  Say, that's right. I mean, he's a professional.
• 26:51
  Absolutely. It's very odd because you would
• 26:52
  assume that that ice on him would start melting now he's in
• 26:55
  the warm. But no, not a bit of it.
• 26:58
  He's melted somewhere else first mate, trust me, don't worry
• 27:01
  about it. Do you see this sort of banquet
• 27:03
  of fruit and pop here on the table?
• 27:06
  It's quite luxurious. Is that a?
• 27:08
  Is that a champagne bottle? There it.
• 27:09
  Looks like it. Yeah.
• 27:12
  Looks like those three dudes were getting ready to have a
• 27:15
  after work party before the other guys came.
• 27:17
  Instead of contacting them, just shot them dead.
• 27:20
  Most of the futuristic, they've got pot plants hanging off the
• 27:22
  walls and things. It's quite luxurious, I think.
• 27:27
  Trust me. Look at the staff room at my
• 27:29
  work. Ain't nothing like that.
• 27:33
  But I do, I do think unlike the hospital, which you know, is
• 27:39
  just a load of white sets, this does feel like a functional
• 27:42
  setting. I can, I can.
• 27:44
  I can believe this. Yeah, so it's a lift in world,
• 27:47
  isn't it? It does look like people work
• 27:49
  here. You even mentioned it with the
• 27:51
  food and the champagne now, like, yeah, you're having a bit
• 27:53
  of a party after work, you know? Some lovely shots of
• 27:56
  furnishings. That's right, look at the sort
• 27:58
  of chiffon hanging from the scene.
• 28:00
  In there. Now look.
• 28:01
  At Michael Sheed now it is melting like each time you see
• 28:03
  him a bit more of it's come off and more active and warmed up so
• 28:08
  his stomach cuts to him it's. Manish Champagne.
• 28:10
  That's 2 bolts of champagne. They've not back then.
• 28:12
  Is this base run by gays? I no, I'm sorry.
• 28:16
  There's more foliage going on in there than the spirid and
• 28:19
  jungle, for God's sake. There's too much breeding for
• 28:22
  this to be a base to be. Run by.
• 28:23
  They want us and they all want to reject Lila big time.
• 28:27
  I think we know where the budget went now, as on those bloody
• 28:29
  magnums on it. Absolutely.
• 28:33
  Do you think Tom knocked them back before the recording?
• 28:35
  Absolutely. But Luke, you, how rare is it
• 28:39
  for you to have a shot looking up like that at the ceiling and
• 28:41
  the pipes and that they don't do it in classic.
• 28:43
  It's always looking straight on. It's very rare.
• 28:48
  It's. Warriors gate does it as well
• 28:50
  top my head. Yeah, and Destiny, the Daleks
• 28:53
  does it too. Because yeah, Cam Creek has a
• 28:55
  lot of low shots. Yeah, I mean, I I was a weird
• 28:58
  thing to focus on ceilings, but you know, here we.
• 29:01
  Are it's because, yeah, it's because you have to build it and
• 29:03
  you'd save money by not building.
• 29:04
  The ceilings, I think. Like always hiding behind a
• 29:07
  shrub there, this shrub will give me plenty of cover.
• 29:10
  I mean, you just wouldn't be throwing these knives around
• 29:12
  anymore, would you? Jesus.
• 29:14
  Christ, This is why I love Lila. Every other companion, they'd be
• 29:17
  like, oh, they hit him over the head with a bottle.
• 29:20
  Really was just like, I'm going to freaking knife this
• 29:22
  motherfucker. Imagine if The Sarah Jane
• 29:25
  Adventures had started as Sarah was going around with flick
• 29:27
  knives throwing him in. It just wouldn't happen, would
• 29:31
  it? Well, she's in the she's in
• 29:33
  London, isn't she? Officially.
• 29:35
  So you know the wrong part of London.
• 29:37
  They should have said in Crowley, John, and then they
• 29:39
  would have been very realistic kids with guns.
• 29:42
  Life on Earth can be an adventure, too.
• 29:44
  Absolutely. Tom's like I'll do the hand
• 29:47
  makeup and I'm not doing the eye makeup.
• 29:48
  Like guys, I. Genuinely think that is a great
• 29:51
  cliffhanger. Shot.
• 29:52
  It was the. Camera with his hand with the
• 29:54
  gun facing Leela. I mean, we kind of well, I was
• 29:58
  actually we kind of know he won't he isn't going to shoot
• 30:00
  her. But he does fire, doesn't he?
• 30:02
  In episode 2, she just rolls out the way in time.
• 30:06
  Well, fellas, I mean as a as a sit, sorry.
• 30:09
  Yeah, again, as a scene setter, how do we do with Episode 10,
• 30:14
  John? Nathan's there, Luke.
• 30:17
  I think it's great. There might be some TARDIS
• 30:20
  scenes, but it's included because that's how the contact
• 30:23
  has been made with Tom. You object to TARDIS scenes,
• 30:26
  then it it depends if they're if they're still in the in the
• 30:31
  TARDIS by episode 2 or something, there's something
• 30:32
  wrong like you know, but. Don't watch the Colin Baker era
• 30:35
  then, all right? There's lots in the Davis and
• 30:37
  era too. Don't worry about it.
• 30:39
  But yeah, I like it. This is fast-paced and the
• 30:42
  cliffhanger is freaking awesome. Lily gets really cool stuff to
• 30:46
  do and I like the the change we'll get from lovable shared to
• 30:51
  Action Evil man Sorry to. Keep doing spoilers, but would
• 30:55
  you imagine at this point in the story that we would ever get to
• 31:00
  honey? I shrunk down the doctor and put
• 31:01
  him in inside of his own brain by.
• 31:04
  God, no clones and. Get there 25.
• 31:09
  So not exactly the most predictable of stories and John
• 31:12
  episode 1. Yeah, I think it is very
• 31:16
  difficult to do a Doctor episode 1 badly because you all you need
• 31:18
  is no idea and build little bits of mystery.
• 31:20
  You know, you don't need to put your hands out.
• 31:21
  You can't disappoint anyone by going.
• 31:23
  This is everything that's going on.
• 31:25
  You've set a challenge there. What's a bad episode 1 then?
• 31:28
  What does that badly? See, this is so I struggle to
• 31:31
  think of what I mean. I would say as a cliche the Twin
• 31:35
  Dilemma purely because. Time Flight episode 1.
• 31:39
  No, that's the best episode. Yeah, that's.
• 31:42
  A good one. Probably seemed funny too, but
• 31:45
  only because the structure of it is 45 minutes.
• 31:48
  It's 25 minutes elongated generally to 45.
• 31:52
  Yeah. So it has to keep the doctor
• 31:54
  away, which is no. Get him straight in there.
• 31:57
  I could literally tell you a dozen last episodes that failed
• 32:01
  miserably. I'm really struggling to think
• 32:02
  of an episode 1. Yeah, it's, it's mystery.
• 32:05
  It's the ideas, everything in there.
• 32:06
  Oh. I suppose I got the easy one to
• 32:08
  moderate then. Andrew episode 1.
• 32:12
  Yeah, yeah. Nice scene setting, good
• 32:16
  mystery. Does take a long time for them
• 32:19
  to get out of the TARDIS. I had a look and it was 13
• 32:22
  minutes before they actually got out of that TARDIS.
• 32:25
  But yeah, I I don't know what's going on.
• 32:28
  It's nice and atmospheric, good models, good music.
• 32:31
  Well, without you all putting a restraining order on me, it does
• 32:34
  appear that contact has been made and we'll head now into
• 32:38
  episode 2. I'll cut it there.