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Can Australia really defend itself? · The Front

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: It's Wednesday, May twenty nine. Immigration Minister Andrew Giles has
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: called an urgent review of the dozens of convicted criminals,
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  Speaker 1: including rapists and domestic violence offenders, who've been allowed to
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: stay in Australia as a result of the government's changes
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: to migration rules. Queensland's government will ban the anti corruption
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: watchdog from making critical commentary about politicians who are not
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: convicted of a crime. That's under sweeping new laws. Revealed
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  Speaker 1: exclusively right now at the Australian dot com AU. We
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: can't hire foreigners to build nuclear submarines and we don't
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  Speaker 1: have enough locals. So how on earth is Australia going
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: to live up to the aucas Defense Pact. That's one
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: of the big questions from the Defending Australia summit in Canberra,
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  Speaker 1: where spies, diplomats, top brass and politicians talked frankly about
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  Speaker 1: how to keep Australia safe. That's today's story.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: The nuclear submarine is the ultimate APEX predator.
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  Speaker 1: Peter malinowskis is the Premier of South Australia and that
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  Speaker 1: means more than anyone else. He's focused on the future
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  Speaker 1: of how Australia will defend itself.
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  Speaker 2: The moment a nuclear submarine enters the water, it immediately
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  Speaker 2: and fundamentally tilts the balance of power in an instant
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  Speaker 2: It recalibrates every geopolitical relationship around it.
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  Speaker 1: Australia is committed to borrow by and then build nuclear
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  Speaker 1: powered subs as part of ORCUS Strategic Pact with the
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  Speaker 1: US and Britain. They'll be built and sustained in South Australia,
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  Speaker 1: and they're designed to deter our enemies from attacking and
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  Speaker 1: allow us to attack far beyond our shores. Nuclear powered
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  Speaker 1: subs are almost silent under the water and can stay
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  Speaker 1: submerged from months on end. That makes them a stealth weapon.
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  Speaker 2: We are wise to acquire this power, but to achieve
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  Speaker 2: this we must change our thinking about ORCUS and what
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  Speaker 2: it means for our nation.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Melanowskis is talking at Defending Australia, a summon in Canberra
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: held by The Australian and our fellow mastheads at News
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Corp Australia, including The Advertiser.
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  Speaker 2: So Newport News in Virginia, where they build nuclear submarines
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  Speaker 2: they've got over twenty thousand people that work there. One
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  Speaker 2: thousand of those people individually have over forty years experience
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  Speaker 2: building nuclear submarines themselves. One thousand people with over forty
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  Speaker 2: years of experience building nuclear submarines every single day of
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  Speaker 2: their working lives. Do you know how many of those
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  Speaker 2: people that we have working at Osbourne or ac None.
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  Speaker 1: He says. We need an entirely new workforce tens of
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  Speaker 1: thousands of people to work on the submarines directly. But
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  Speaker 1: that's not all.
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  Speaker 2: Now, we can't employ these people as other foreign nationals
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  Speaker 2: for security reasons that are well known in this room.
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  Speaker 2: We can't even really poach them from the US in
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  Speaker 2: the UK because that would be in breach of the
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  Speaker 2: very principles that Orcus has been there to design about
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  Speaker 2: uplift across the three nations. Rather than an internal poaching exercise.
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  Speaker 1: That means we need to train Australians and thousands of
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  Speaker 1: them will need to be recruited from other sectors.
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  Speaker 2: We need sparkys, we need plumbers, we need fitters, we
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: need turners, we probably need butcher's bakers and candorstick makers.
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  Speaker 2: And as we seek to recruit those from existing industries.
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  Speaker 3: Who is going to backfill that labor.
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  Speaker 1: Because if you haven't noticed, Australia already has a critical
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  Speaker 1: worker shortage in sectors like construction right now.
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  Speaker 2: First and foremost, Australia does not have a migration problem.
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  Speaker 3: We have a housing supply problem.
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  Speaker 1: That housing supply problem is why both the government and
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: oppositions say they need to slash migration, because Australians can't
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  Speaker 1: find somewhere to.
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  Speaker 3: Live without a healthy influx of skilled migrants.
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  Speaker 2: Our nation is not the country that we know today,
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  Speaker 2: nor will be the country we want it to be tomorrow.
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  Speaker 2: So I would say to my Canberra colleagues that UCUST
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  Speaker 2: must be a consideration in deliberations over Australia's skilled migration program.
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  Speaker 2: But more than that, AUCUST must be con consideration in
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  Speaker 2: just about every area of policy. When we think about housing,
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  Speaker 2: what does it mean for ORCUS? When we think about infrastructure,
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  Speaker 2: what does that mean for UCUS. When we think about education,
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  Speaker 2: health and innovation policy, what does that mean for UCUS.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: I sat down with Peter Melanowskis on stage at the
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: Defending Australia Summit on Tuesday night. The British High Commissioner
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: gave you and everybody else in the room today a
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  Speaker 1: bit of a warning not to come poaching their staff.
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  Speaker 1: You'd made the right noises about that in your speech too,
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  Speaker 1: saying that that would be in breach of the spirit
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  Speaker 1: of the Orcast Pact. But if you know talented British
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  Speaker 1: nuclear physicists want to move to Adelaide and have a
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: wonderful life there, are you going to turn them down?
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  Speaker 3: Well, I'll tell a story that I probably shouldn't.
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  Speaker 2: The Optimal Pathway was announced by the Prime Minister and
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  Speaker 2: the British Prime Minister and the US President, and seventy
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  Speaker 2: two hours later I was on the ground in Barrow
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  Speaker 2: touring their facility, which is very impressive indeed, But the
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  Speaker 2: most powerful part to me was actually going through their
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: equivalent of the Training and Skills Academy and I got
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  Speaker 2: to talk to young workers learning their craft to build
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  Speaker 2: the nuclear submarines in the UK. And I'm saying to them, oh,
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  Speaker 2: you know, would you like to come and work in
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  Speaker 2: Adelaide like Barrow? If you haven't pictured it, it's a bleak,
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  Speaker 2: it's different, right, So I'm saying that these kids, you know,
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  Speaker 2: like Allaid's got beaches, We've got wineries. It's a major
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  Speaker 2: metropolitan city. You know, we've got lots of festivals and events.
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  Speaker 2: And I said, would you can't like to come, and
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  Speaker 2: one after the other saying oh, yeah, that sounds pretty good.
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  Speaker 2: Stephen Smith grabbed me by the eye. We've sort of
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  Speaker 2: had a quiet moment.
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  Speaker 3: Grabbed me by the arm and with a degree.
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  Speaker 2: Of force which you wouldn't think Stephen is necessarily capable
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  Speaker 2: of with a degree of force and shut up, with
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  Speaker 2: a little other word in between, shut lane up.
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  Speaker 3: And he said, this isn't a part of the deal. Well,
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  Speaker 3: this is a problem. And I remember that because it
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: was the early stages.
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  Speaker 2: Of the Optimum Pathway announcement, and it is a critical
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  Speaker 2: principle that we've signed up to that is not about poaching.
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  Speaker 3: It is about industrial uplift.
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  Speaker 2: Across the three countries, which means we have to accept
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  Speaker 2: a profound responsibility that we are developing and procuring our
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: own workforce domestically at home, and as has been identified
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  Speaker 2: in all the panels tonight, it is the fundamental challenge.
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  Speaker 3: It is the single biggest risk to the program.
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  Speaker 2: I think that in turn invites a nationally coordinated effort
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  Speaker 2: about how we're going to develop that workforce because it's
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  Speaker 2: not just about my state. This is not an industrial
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  Speaker 2: policy for South Australia or Western Australia. We are at
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  Speaker 2: full employment. We're not trying to work out how to
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: make more work. We're trying to work out how we
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  Speaker 2: get the work done, and that is going to require
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: a lot more uplift from the Eastern States in a
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: way that I don't think is fully being computed.
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: Up until this point.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: Coming up a for much Spy reveals what China really
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: thinks about Australia. We'll be back after this break. In
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty, as the pandemic raged, Australian journalist Chang Lai
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: was detained in China. He She is describing her ordeal
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: on Sky News Australia.
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  Speaker 4: It's to make you feel isolated and bored and pained
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  Speaker 4: and desperate. My experience was the first five months I
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  Speaker 4: got to read books and I had a pen and
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: paper with which to write, and that was much less
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  Speaker 4: painful than the final month of just twelve hours a
• 9:05
  Speaker 4: day of pure sitting and very little chance to get
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  Speaker 4: up and just walk, just pace around a very little room.
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  Speaker 1: Every dream was a nightmare. Almost three years later, and
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: following extensive diplomatic maneuvering by Foreign Minister Pennywong, Lay was
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: finally freed.
• 9:28
  Speaker 5: More than one thousand days behind bars. Today, Freedom Australian
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  Speaker 5: journalist Chung Lay embraced by Foreign Minister Pennywong at Melbourne
• 9:37
  Speaker 5: Airport this afternoon.
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  Speaker 1: Now, Chang Lai is working as an anchor on Sky News,
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  Speaker 1: and on Tuesday she moderated a panel at the Defending
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: Australia Summit on conflicts past, present and potentially future. She
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: was joined by Senator Dave Sharma, Ukrainian Ambassador Vassel Marishenko,
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  Speaker 1: and a former spy for the Ministry of Public Security
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: for the People Republic of China. We're calling him Eric
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: to protect his identity.
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  Speaker 4: Now, two points I want to make at the top.
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  Speaker 4: One is an ex con, an ex spy, two diplomats
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  Speaker 4: on a stage talking freely without fear. That's what we're defending.
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  Speaker 4: You know, when Eric's story came out, everyone who I.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: Knew said he has balls.
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  Speaker 4: So I want to ask you, Eric, what exactly did
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  Speaker 4: you do or were you forced to do for the government.
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  Speaker 1: Eric explained he had three main tasks as a spy,
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  Speaker 1: writing intelligence reports, gathering information about opponents of the Chinese
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  Speaker 1: Communist Party and dealing with targets.
• 10:53
  Speaker 6: But I relaxed. I have protected all the targets and
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  Speaker 6: the null one had been rasted because of me, and
• 11:02
  Speaker 6: a lot of evenists can prove that I have my
• 11:06
  Speaker 6: own secret under the secret of police.
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  Speaker 4: Don't know.
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  Speaker 1: Chang Lai translated some of the panel's questions for Eric
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  Speaker 1: and his responses in real time.
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  Speaker 4: Right, and you were forced into this because you supported
• 11:22
  Speaker 4: a dissident movement?
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  Speaker 1: Is that correct?
• 11:27
  Speaker 4: In the Jusula Union?
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: So will you hype b b it is?
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  Speaker 2: What should you know?
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  Speaker 1: Yes?
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  Speaker 6: Correct?
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  Speaker 1: Senator Dave Chalma jumped in, Well.
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  Speaker 7: Look up. Firstly, Eric, I commend you for your personal bravery.
• 11:45
  Speaker 7: Must have taken a huge amount of courage. Can I
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  Speaker 7: ask him in what was it that triggered your decision
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  Speaker 7: to leave your employment seek asylum in the country like Australia.
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  Speaker 7: Was it something you particularly asked to do? Do you
• 11:57
  Speaker 7: lost faith in the political system them or you had
• 12:01
  Speaker 7: ethical or moral concerns with what you're being asked to do?
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  Speaker 6: Sure?
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  Speaker 1: What he actually chose Canada first.
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: So on the same day he got two emails, a
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: rejection from Canada acceptance from Australia. He also applied to
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: New Zealand, but then he tossed a coin to decide
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  Speaker 4: between Australia and New Zealand.
• 12:28
  Speaker 6: Will we some Yo Holy Year? So Jens Sushi.
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  Speaker 4: Un So he's always been anti CCP Chinese Communist Party,
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  Speaker 4: that's in his DNA, and he had his own secrets
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: in that. The first time he sought to escape, he
• 12:47
  Speaker 4: went to Hong Kong and sought assistance at the US
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: consulate and more secrets about that will be revealed in
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: due course. And the second escape also the Chinese secret
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  Speaker 4: police didn't know about. Then he did some really like
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  Speaker 4: genuine anti CCP work that started to attract the interest
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  Speaker 4: of the Beijing HQ of the secret police, and that's
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: when he felt the danger and he started.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: To plot his way out. So what you told us was.
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: That you were asked to collect information, to monitor and
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: also try to abduct Chinese distance in other countries. How
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: concerned should Western governments be about that?
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: What you're s.
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: So, he says that Western politicians are usually not concerned
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: about these behaviors. They think it's all within Chinese people,
• 13:48
  Speaker 4: but in fact, the CCP's attempt to control voices in
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: the Chinese community actually then in turn affects voting in
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: those countries and influences politics. So that does erode rights
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: in Western countries and should be something that we're all
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  Speaker 4: concerned about. What does the Chinese secret police think of
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: Australia or those people that you worked with so meeting,
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: So in his dealings with the Chinese secret police, they
• 14:26
  Speaker 4: don't talk about Australia much, but in his engagements with
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: Chinese officials and others, they seem to think of Australia
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: as a country without sovereignty, that it's not worth fighting against.
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: That should there ever be a day of China US conflict,
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: then all they need to do is intimidate and coerce Australia,
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: and Australia will stay neutral until China wins, and then
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: Australia will obey.
• 14:57
  Speaker 6: See more sure and what.
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: To the So he's noticed that among academics and some
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: people in the strategy sphere that people seem to think
• 15:12
  Speaker 4: if there is a China US conflict, that Australia should
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: not take sides. And he doesn't know whether these voices
• 15:18
  Speaker 4: are being funded by China, but he thinks if Australia
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: stands by and not help the US. It's going to
• 15:28
  Speaker 4: be the start of Australia's nightmare.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: New South Wales police say a strikeforce into the suspected
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: murder of missing Bromwyn Winfield is open and ongoing. She's
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: the subject of The Australian's new investigative podcast series, Bromwyn.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: You can register to listen to the first two episodes
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: right now at Bronwyn podcast dot com. That's b ro
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: n w y n podcast dot com and join US
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: subscribers for all the nation's best journalism at The Australian
• 16:07
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