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Leaving a Big 4 Job: What I Learned About Balance & Self-Worth: Shreya's Career Change Story · Happen To Your Career - Meaningful Work, Career Change, Career Design, & Job Search

• 0:00
  hreya Rawal: It was really affecting my mental health. I was very stressed.
• 0:03
  cott Anthony Barlow: I've heard the same statement in thousands of one-on-one conversations about work.
• 0:07
  hreya Rawal: Everyone was like, “This is just how it is. This is just the way it is when you work.”
• 0:11
  cott Anthony Barlow: That's Shreya. She worked for a Big Four accounting firm, and it was not a fit for her.
• 0:17
  hreya Rawal: It's just as stressful. “You just gotta go through the motions and then quit in a year or two. This is really good for your resume.”
• 0:22
  cott Anthony Barlow: Everyone was telling her that this is just what you have to do, it's just the way that the world works.
• 0:27
  hreya Rawal: Yeah. As anyone, in my own life, I feel like I couldn't relate to anyone. So I was like, “Maybe someone else has gone through this.”
• 0:34
  cott Anthony Barlow: So, where do you go when the entire world is telling you that what you want is impossible?
• 0:39
  hreya Rawal: I knew I needed to do something, so I actually came across this podcast as I was trying to do a lot of research on, okay, what do people do in this situation?
• 0:47
  cott Anthony Barlow: This is Happen to Your Career, the podcast that brings you real people, real transformations, and the courage to do work that truly fits. If you haven't already subscribed, click follow now so that you don't miss any new episodes.
• 1:00
  hreya Rawal: Okay, maybe this is doable.
• 1:02
  cott Anthony Barlow: In this episode, you'll hear how Shreya went from monotonous work to using her background in accounting with an AI-driven medical company.
• 1:10
  hreya Rawal: Well, I was like, “People actually like their jobs? That's possible?”
• 1:13
  cott Anthony Barlow: You'll also hear how she learned what could fit her, and her surprising findings about what she needed to be fulfilled in her work. Here she is talking about how she originally started working with a Big Four firm.
• 1:26
  hreya Rawal: So I got the job I interned at PwC while I was still in college, between my junior and my senior year. And then I loved the internship, like loved the people. It was a great time. I kind of knew in the back of my head, mm, I don't think I'm gonna love the actual job, and I don't think this is really what I want to do. Because throughout college, I was like, “I don't wanna work at the Big Four,” and PwC is a Big Four. And then kind of got the job. Yeah. And then I was like, “Well, I have a job at a really good company outta college. Let me take it.” So then I took it and as I started working, it was fine. Like I love the people I work with. Everything was really fun. But then, as it was progressing, I was like, I really did not resonate with the work I was doing. I think it was just very monotonous. I was working in IT audit and it's just not something that I wanted to do or envision myself doing. And besides the work, there's like a busy season for five months and definitely when you're interning and stuff, they don't say, “Oh, you're gonna have to work this many hours,” and it ends up being lot more hours than you anticipated. And even that was fine. Like, yeah, I expected I had to work a lot, but I think something I didn't expect is the office, like politics.
• 2:33
  cott Anthony Barlow: In what way? ) Shreya Rawal: Like navigate, yeah, it's just the teams you work with. You would have to just like, you know, stray away from certain people and make sure you behave in a certain way with other people. And I think, you know, you're young, you just got out of college, you're really like naive. You don't really know the ways of the work, corporate life. I think a year in, one of my seniors was like, “Can you reply to this person on the group chat?” And I was like, “What group chat?” And it turns out I just wasn't on it for the whole year.
• 3:00
  cott Anthony Barlow: Oh no.
• 3:01
  hreya Rawal: Yeah. I remember one of my feedback points were like, “Oh, you don't show up fully prepared to meetings.” And then, as I was reading this group chat, I was like, “Well, this is probably why. I wasn't even on this.” And I was like, I did not expect this much.
• 3:13
  cott Anthony Barlow: Interesting. ) Shreya Rawal: I think the biggest, yeah, it was just the office politics and the people that you had to navigate.
• 3:19
  cott Anthony Barlow: So one of the things I'm curious about is when you decided, hey, I wanna make a change, I wanna make, you know, some kind of a career change, what led up to that for you to make that decision that, hey, this is something I need to do?
• 3:33
  hreya Rawal: Yeah, I think it was just a lot of things adding up at once. I was working for certain clients and the one client I was on, it was a huge, huge, huge client. It was a really difficult one, and it was known that every first-year associate that was on that client had quit at that point. At that point, I was like, I realized why, 'cause it was so much work. The team was not great to work with. So that was one thing, and then I was put on two other clients that were. Equally as stressful with not the best managers. So there was a point where it was only like three or four of these projects, and I was so, so stressed. I had so much to do constantly. I couldn't even think, like I would have meetings from 8:00 AM to 6:00 PM like straight. And then after that I would have all this work to do and then it was hard to kind of keep up with expectations as well, because there's just so much dumped on you. So I was already stressed. And then on top of that, all these office politics were going on and it was like really adding up to the point where it was really affecting my mental health. I was very stressed. Every time I would bring it up to my parents or anyone, everyone was like, “This is just how it is. This is just the way it is when you work. It's just stressful,” you just gotta, you know, “go through the motions and then quit in a year or two. Like, this is really good for your resume. You should make it to senior.” And then I remember one time I was talking to my parents about my job and I just started like breaking down crying. And then there were like, “Oh my God, okay. This is really, this looks really stressful.” They're like, “Nothing should affect you like this much.” And they were like, “I think you should quit.” And it was then when it was my own parents telling me, “I think you should quit.” Where I was like, “Okay, I think they're right.”
• 5:03
  cott Anthony Barlow: So I think one of the things that I'm curious about is you had all of these different people telling you variations of, “Hey, you're supposed to suffer. This is supposed to happen in one way or another.” And did you push back on that? At that point in time? Or was it only when your parents helped you acknowledge that? How did that work out?
• 5:28
  hreya Rawal: Yeah, I mean, I would try to push back and deep down I knew, I don't think this is normal. I don't think everyone is going through this. Then at the end of the day, I would always think, “What do I know?” Like I just, I just graduated, like it's my first job. I'm only like a year in. People don't quit their jobs a year in and I like just started, but then everyone was telling me different things and then I talked to a lot of different people and everyone was kind of telling me different things, but majority of the people were like, “I think you should quit. Like you should, you should quit.” I think I was just scared to do it 'cause being so young and like it's your first job, like you really don't know anything. I don't have anything to compare it to, so I was like, “Maybe this is how it is. Like maybe this, everyone's just suffering.” Like everyone hates their job, right? So yeah, I knew, but I didn't.
• 6:13
  cott Anthony Barlow: Well, I think it's a really challenging situation when you haven't had exposure to other things and you know, I remember the feeling the same way, quite frankly. My first professional job, I remember a point in time very vividly where I was like driving on my commute to work and just horrifically unhappy, like working these 90-plus hour weeks regularly over and over and over again. I'm like, “Is this what everybody does?” And I just didn't have anything to compare it to. And it sounds like you found yourself in a very similar situation where it's, “I guess I go along with this, maybe, but this feels terrible. Why?” What did you do then from there? What made you go from, “Hey, I'm not even sure if this is the normal. Should I be feeling this way?” All the way to, “I need to do something about this.”
• 7:02
  hreya Rawal: I knew I needed to do something. So I actually came across this podcast as I was trying to do a lot of research on what do people do in this situation. As anyone, like in my own life, I feel like I couldn't relate to anyone, so I was like, maybe someone else has gone through this. And that's how I found this podcast and I was listening to a lot of the episodes and a lot of them are about people very unhappy in their work situation. I found a lot of similar stories, so I was like, “Okay, like maybe this is doable. Like I can leave and find something better.” Just through talking to people and researching, I was like, “Okay, I'm not alone in this situation.” The only scary part where I was like, “I don't know if anyone this young has gone through this, like someone's straight out of college.” But then I decided I should just take a leap of faith. My brother was like, “You should just do it. Just quit. What do you have to lose? It's okay. If anything, this is the best time in your life to go through this change. You have so much of your career ahead of you. Why be unhappy for so long? You don't even wanna do this in the future.” So then I was like, “Okay, I should do it.” But yeah, I think listening to other people's stories really helped me not feel so alone and I was like, “Okay, it's, this is something I can do.”
• 8:11
  cott Anthony Barlow: I'm trying to think back to when I was in that exact same situation, and I think you're right. I mean, I felt like a lot of things. I felt tired, exhausted, like uber stressed, all of those things, but lonely is definitely another one because of everything that you mentioned. I'm so glad that this has come full circle for you, where you were able to hear other people's stories and not feel as alone. And then now, later on, you're actually getting to share your story. Hopefully, that will help other people not feel as alone, too.
• 8:42
  hreya Rawal: Yes, yes. Hopefully.
• 8:44
  cott Anthony Barlow: One of the things that I'm really interested in, you did a lot of what we call test driving in one way or another, and this was part of your experimentation and you know, for you, I think part of that was being able to reach out cold in order to have interactions and start to build relationships with people and have what we call test drive conversations to be able to learn more about those companies, those individuals, those opportunities in different situations. What surprised you the most as you were going through those types of test driving?
• 9:25
  hreya Rawal: I think my aim was, I didn't even know what I wanted to do, like what I wanted to switch into. So I was, I'm gonna reach out to people with like different roles I was even mildly interested in. Coming from someone that hated their job and I was like talking to these people. They just seemed so passionate about what they were doing, and they actually genuinely loved what they were doing. I was like, “People actually like their jobs? That's possible?” So I was genuinely shocked. People are so happy to talk about what they do. They seem to really love it. And then I was like, “I want that. I wanna be that person.”
• 9:54
  cott Anthony Barlow: Do you remember any conversation in particular where it helped you have that realization where you're like mid-conversation, you're like, this is strange, or it stood out?
• 10:03
  hreya Rawal: So I talked to one person in particular and he worked as a product manager for the health tech company. He was so nice to me. He was so passionate about what he was talking about and he showed me what he was working on, all the projects in detail. That was the moment where I was like, “Wow, he's really passionate about what he does.” He's willingly talking about his job and genuinely seems like he wants me to learn and is like really interested in it. He was very passionate about his company and the mission statement about his company and what he was doing. So I think that really stood out to me.
• 10:33
  cott Anthony Barlow: So, for everybody else, a little bit of backstory. We often call these career experiments and it helps people, like in your case, Shreya, be able to understand what you want, what you don't want. And this particular type we often call the social Goldilocks, where you're having lots of conversations very quickly in order to understand those pieces about what you enjoy, what is a potential fit, but also what doesn't fit as well. And I'm curious, did any of those conversations lead to what you didn't want, to be able to rule that out just as much as what you did want?
• 11:12
  hreya Rawal: Yeah, if we get like technical with it, as I was talking to people, I knew I really liked product management, but I kind of learned throughout my whole Happen to Your Career experience that one of my strengths, like actually all of my strengths had to do with relationships and people, which was really shocking to me. Like, I did not think that I was, that people-oriented. So the thing I really liked about product management is it's a lot of communicating. It's a lot of talking to people and I was trying to figure out if, you know, that was a role for me and I was talking to a lot of product managers. I learned that there's two sides of it. There's one side that you're, you know, talking to a lot of people, coordinating with people where that relationship strength really matters. Then there's another side where it's very technical and has to do with a lot of programming and very detailed and I was like, I don't wanna do that. Like talking to those people made me realize I don't wanna do something really technical. I don't think I thrive in positions where I have to be really detailed or, you know, something that you're just really focused on one thing. I would rather do something where it's kind of broader and that relationship strength does come into more play there.
• 12:15
  cott Anthony Barlow: As you went into this process, you thought that it was more about the particular type of work, it sounds, and you wanted to be very focused in on what are the types of work that I might enjoy, but it sounds like what you found as you were going through it is that you place a much higher emphasis on being around and getting to interact with people in certain ways than what you had anticipated. That's great learning. That's phenomenal work. Were there any pieces of being around other people and getting to interact with other people that stood out or that you really got specific on that you must have in future opportunities?
• 12:56
  hreya Rawal: When I started working at PwC too, there's a lot of people I worked with that I really loved and it made going to work bearable. I loved going into the office 'cause I was like, “Okay, I love these people that I'm working with.” And even as I was doing my test drives and stuff, I was having fun talking to people. So when I knew, 'cause I originally started it off by I want a specific role, but then as I was having these conversations, I was like, actually, I think the company and like the environment I work in matters more than the role I'm in. So then, as I figured that out and I was like interviewing and figuring out companies, something that really stood out to me was like when in the interviews I was doing, you can kind of tell how your team will be and how the people are in this place where I interview, people were so very chill, very nice. As I was interviewing, it felt like I was just having a conversation with them, like it didn't even feel like an interview. And that's how I kind of realized, okay, I would wanna work here. It seems like a good environment, good vibe, and I don't know, for me personally, I was like, even if the role isn't a hundred percent what I wanna do, as long as the environment's good, the company's good, the people are good, that's what matters more to me. And obviously, eventually I would want to have both, where I really love the role and I really love the company, but like right now, I think what's more important to me is the people I work with and where I work.
• 14:10
  cott Anthony Barlow: So that's really fascinating. See, you, as you went through this process and you're starting to meet with lots of different people and have these variety of conversations, it led to the realization that although, you know, all of these pieces do add up to some level of fulfilling work, but there are pieces for you that matter much, much more. And those are the environmental pieces. And I think you did a really great job paying attention to those feelings that you were getting as you were going into interviews and those types of interactions, because then that gave you clues, it sounds, about what is this environment actually. Have you found that it's actually what you thought it was in terms of being able to pay attention to the environmental pieces, the people, and the feelings that go along with it? Has it actually panned out? Does it still feel the same to you? What's that like now?
• 15:08
  hreya Rawal: Yeah. I think it does. The team that I work with now, everyone's very nice, very understanding. I feel like in my old job it was a lot of micromanaging and it was a lot of, everything was just always so serious and I do not feel that way here. I feel like every time I say those people laugh, but my whole team is just dads and I feel like that makes a difference. They have kids, they actually understand work-life balance. Nobody at my last job had families or anything, so work was their life. Whereas here, they have a life outside of work and everyone's so understanding. Anytime, I feel like something that I didn't get in my last job was people recognizing the work I do. Like if I finish something, someone will be like, “Good job. You did a really good job on that.” Or they would mention me in a meeting or something like, “Oh, good job, you got all this done.” And the first time I would hear this, I was like genuinely shocked. 'Cause I was like, “You're actually complimenting my work.” Which was really nice of them. Yeah. What? You're appreciating the work I do, the hours I put in? So it was like a very big shift for me. Yeah. And everyone's very understanding, but I feel like the biggest thing was someone recognizing my work and just being appreciative of being on the team and the work I do. I feel like that's something that I definitely did not get before.
• 16:19
  cott Anthony Barlow: These are massive environmental changes and I would argue that some of these changes are the, you know, just the minimum bar for providing work that is going to be good for humans, and then others are really significant and really specific to what you want and what you need. Now that you're in this new environment with these new people and it sounds like it's much more collaborative, much more supportive in many of the ways that you need. How has that impacted your quality of life? What's the difference with quality of life for you now versus then?
• 16:52
  hreya Rawal: Definitely improved my quality of life. I feel like before, I was constantly thinking about work. Like I would go to work in the morning, I'd be stressed, I would go to work, I would be doing all this. I would come home and I'd be like, “Okay, I have this, this, this left to do.” I feel my life revolved around work. Whereas now, I'm like, okay, nine to five, I go to work, I come home, and then I have the rest of my day to myself. I can do what I want. Like work is just a part of my life now rather than the whole thing. So I think that was the biggest change. But yeah, and I feel like it's nice to go into work and everyone has a smile on their face. It just, it makes it better. We're all here, we all have to work, but everyone's happy to be here. We do have busy times, like it doesn't feel overly stressful. Even if I do have to log on at night or something, it's fine. Like I do it on my own time. It's because I want to, not because someone's telling me to.
• 17:43
  cott Anthony Barlow: Having that level of autonomy where you get to choose if you're putting in the extra effort, that makes it feel so much different versus I'm forced to.
• 17:55
  hreya Rawal: Yeah. For sure. ) Scott Anthony Barlow: Great point.
• 17:57
  cott Anthony Barlow: Let's back up here a little bit. Let's talk about how you went from, you know, starting this process to figuring out what was a great fit, but then after that point in time, I'm really curious what led you to getting this specific opportunity? What were the events that took you to getting to accept this particular job offer?
• 18:16
  hreya Rawal: Yeah. I realized through my conversations and my research, I wanted to work at some sort of company that either was like in health or education or something I feel like I'm helping people. Because at my last job, it was very corporate. I was just making rich people richer and I didn't wanna do that again. So I was particularly interested in health companies, like health tech companies, and being in Chicago, there's a lot of great startups. There's a lot of great opportunities for that. So I was researching a lot of those companies and then I came across, I had the list of companies and Tempest AI, I just came across, like randomly on some, there's a site called Built In Chicago, which has a bunch of like former startups and smaller companies. And then that's where I found Tempest and I was reading the description. I really liked it. And then I found out someone, one of my aunt's friends, works here, so I was like, let me reach out, let me see if I can, you know, if she can connect me with anyone. Ended up reaching out to her and she worked in the health side, like the lab side. So she didn't end up knowing anyone on the accounting side, but she was so willing to help me, so I was like, okay, even she's nice. So then I actually just blindly applied. I knew one person on the team; he went to college with me, so I ended up connecting with him a little. But other than that, I literally just applied and I was just like, let me just try it. And then I just got the interview, and then from there I got the job. It was just two interviews that I went, or, yeah, one interview. And then the second interview, I was like in the office talking to five different people. It was like crazy, but it was very, very chill. Like nothing too crazy.
• 19:53
  cott Anthony Barlow: How did you prepare for those interviews?
• 19:56
  hreya Rawal: I did a lot of research on the company on what they do and what their mission statement is. And then I kind of really made sure I knew my resume. It was an accounting job, and my last job was an audit job, so I kind of came up with a script of how to make my experiences connect more with the role, with the accounting role. And I had like practice interviews with my career coach and everything and she kind of helped me figure out what I should improve on.
• 20:25
  cott Anthony Barlow: What were some of the takeaways for you about what you needed to change in your interview process?
• 20:32
  hreya Rawal: Yeah, I think the biggest thing was how to make my experiences connect more with the job that I was applying for because I didn't have too much accounting experience, but she kind of helped me word things in a way that made it seem like I did have a lot of accounting experience and I did know a lot about the role and the job that I was applying for.
• 20:54
  cott Anthony Barlow: Do you remember how you were saying it at first versus how you would change it in order to help connect those two together by any chance?
• 21:04
  hreya Rawal: Yeah, I think I was kind of focusing on a lot, like for my last job for IT audit. I would focus, okay. I had to work with clients and I was working on compliance and all this, but then, my career coach was like, “They don't really care about that. You can say like the technical work you did, like all the work you did in Excel and all the work you did.” You do need accounting knowledge to audit. So I talked more about the knowledge I had. I also had accounting internships in the past that I kind of pushed to the aside 'cause I was like, “They were internships. Like they were before.” But she was like, “No, you should talk about this.”
• 21:33
  cott Anthony Barlow: All counts as experience. It's all real experience.
• 21:37
  hreya Rawal: Yeah, she kinda helped me realize like I actually do know accounting. I'm not going into this blind.
• 21:41
  cott Anthony Barlow: So I think that's a really common thing that we see over and over again. And it doesn't just happen for people coming out of their first professional role. It also happens much, much later, where we tend to discount the experiences that we have. I mean, I just literally had this conversation with my daughter, who just turned 18 yesterday, about some of the experiences that she has, and she's, “No, those don't really count.” I'm like, “Yeah, they do. It's all experience.” But it doesn't really matter what age. So here's my question to you. What helped you realize or move through some of those mind games that we play with ourselves about, “Hey, this doesn't count. This does.” You know, what helped you be able to say, “I am going to utilize this as experience. This does, in fact, count. This is something that I am going to talk about.” Was it just that conversation with your coach on our team, or were there other things that helped along the way?
• 22:38
  hreya Rawal: I think mainly it was these conversations with my coach that really helped me because, yeah, all experience is good experience and I kind of didn't really recognize that. And I think, you know, when you're applying jobs and stuff and you kind of think, okay, my full-time jobs, like the places I was at the longest, that matters the most 'cause I have the most experience there. But you still have experience. It's just, maybe it's not as long, but it's still experience. Like you were still there. I feel like after those conversations and then really looking at all the experience I've done, I was like, no, I have done a lot, I do have this knowledge and this experience, so.
• 23:12
  cott Anthony Barlow: Were there other areas, particularly skills or maybe even strengths that carried over into this new role?
• 23:19
  hreya Rawal: Yeah, I think I mentioned like all my strengths had to do with.
• 23:24
  cott Anthony Barlow: Yeah, ) Shreya Rawal: Yeah. Which is then to go into an accounting role, it didn't sound like it would work out, but actually, I do have to talk to a lot of people at my job. I've talked to my team, and I feel like that relationship strength really comes into play. Just like knowing who to talk to when something that a lot of accountants stereotypically have is they don't have social skills and very introverted. But I think it is helpful and it does set me apart that I do have these relationship skills because it allows you to, I guess, see work in a different perspective and be able to think in a different way, rather than very technical, like very, “This is the work and this is how we do it.” Just being able to have conversations with people, get new perspectives. Even in asking for help, who to ask. I feel like it does come into play. I think I have a great time with my team. I feel like my team all, we all get along really well and a lot of that has to do with this relationship strength than just, yeah, I feel like it gives me a different perspective, a unique perspective to the work that I do.
• 24:26
  cott Anthony Barlow: I think one of the things that I've observed over the years is that for some people, our strengths, since those are the essence of who we are, if we wanna oversimplify it for just a moment. Since they are much of who we are, it also borderlines into what we value too. So for example, in your case, you are very good at being able to interact with other people, build relationships, and you enjoy that too. That's fun for you in many different ways. Also, consequently, that's something that you place a lot of value on that you didn't have in that other opportunity. And I think that there's a lot of overlap there, both from the value side as well as the strength side that people miss along the way. So I think it's really kind of awesome that you have, with one move, brought a lot more of that into your life and into your work. Both the things that you're great at, but also the things that you place the highest priority on. So what advice would you give other people that are maybe in the place that you were before? They're not in as aligned of an environment, not as aligned of a group of people that they want to work with. What advice would you give to those folks that want to make a change?
• 25:40
  hreya Rawal: The biggest advice and what helped me the most was just knowing wherever you're at is not your final destination. It's not the end-all, be-all. It sounds very scary to move to a different job, to even think about quitting, especially in times like the economy, like the job market. It's scary. But just knowing that there is something better out there. There's so many jobs, there's so many companies you probably even haven't heard of. And just through research, just through talking to people, you can easily find those opportunities. You're never stuck in where you are and there's no need to be stuck. But I was really stressed about my job and I really wanted to quit. I was taking everything so seriously and I was like, “No, I can't quit. What's gonna happen?” Like all this. But I think once I was like, you know what? Nothing's that serious. You're not stuck. You can find something else. Actually, it's not that complicated. It made things a lot less stressful and it gives some reassurance. I feel like that's my biggest advice.
• 26:27
  cott Anthony Barlow: I think that's really powerful, honestly, 'cause it changes how you're looking at it. That's really great advice. What else surprised you along the way? If you look at this whole entire change for yourself, what else would you have said, you know, six or eight or, you know, months ago or 12 months ago? “Yeah, I didn't think that's how it would be.”
• 26:48
  hreya Rawal: I think something that I thought. I was like, “Okay, if I leave this job, the next job I have has to be absolutely perfect. It has to have every single thing I want or else there's no point.” I did not think at all I would get an accounting job. I didn't think this is where I would be, but I'm happy where I am right now, and obviously, I consider where I'm at right now a bridge role into what role I eventually wanna do. But yeah, something that I guess I would tell myself, it doesn't have to be the perfect role, you're moving from this job to something better. You just have to make sure you're moving somewhere better than where you are right now. You don't have to be miserable at your job. I don't even know what a bridge role was. So I guess something I tell myself is you could have a bridge role. You can eventually get into the role you want. You don't immediately have to have your perfect, amazing, like dream role. “I'm gonna retire here.” And I'm really happy with the job I'm at. I love the company I work at. If I do even move roles, I wanna move within this company, I realize because I love the company and the people I work with. The accounting role isn't like–I'm having a great time. It's not the end of the world. So yeah, that's something that I did not think. I did not think I would be here.
• 27:54
  cott Anthony Barlow: That's phenomenal. Let's talk about that bridge role, the concept of a bridge role for just a second here. So obviously bridge role is the intent of it is to build a bridge to where you're trying to go, whatever life and work that you're trying to build for the future. And I think that you've done a really nice job recognizing that one, you can make a change with massive improvements, and it can be right for right now, even if it's not perfect. And the reality is there is no perfect. There is absolutely no perfect. And if there was, it would remove out some of the elements that make work more fulfilling because those challenges which are inherently imperfect. Those are part of what creates the right type of situation for humans. That said, for you, when you're thinking about this as a bridge role and you're thinking about making other changes in the future, how has this type of experience changed how you look at building your career and building the life that you want to live?
• 29:02
  hreya Rawal: I think this whole experience taught me it's always a continuous improvement. Wherever you are, there's probably somewhere else you wanna be. It's probably somewhere better and you can work towards that. This whole experience taught me is you can do both at the same time. With my current role, I've been trying to reach out to product managers in my company and trying to talk to them, have these conversations, build those connections with people in my current role, like in my day-to-day. And that's just something I'm doing on the side. And obviously I'm still doing my normal job, but that's something I never thought, yeah, you can do both at the same time. You can wanna leave, but you can still be at your job. You can still enjoy what you do. So yeah, like kind of doing both at the same time, continuously trying to get somewhere better and you know, improve yourself. That's what this whole experience has taught me.
• 29:46
  cott Anthony Barlow: They can coexist, right? So I wanna go back to something that you said earlier. You were talking about as you were building a list and starting to investigate these different sets of people, environments, organizations. Was there a larger list for you before it got down to these 10 or 12 that you started intimately researching or digging deeper into?
• 30:06
  hreya Rawal: Yeah, it was definitely a larger list and it got smaller and smaller. At first, I just put any company I was even remotely interested in and then, but as I was looking into it, I was making my list smaller. A lot of the companies were like, not even in Chicago, they were somewhere else. And at the time, I was like, “It's okay, let me just do it.” And then logistically, when I was thinking about it, I was like, “Okay, wel,l I don't wanna move to San Francisco right now.” And I really had to think about that. And then, as I was looking into them, like maybe I don't really resonate with this company, or some of them may have been fully remote. And I was like, “I don't really want that.” So, you know, as I was looking into them, I made my list smaller and smaller.
• 30:42
  cott Anthony Barlow: I think that's really interesting though, because it sounds like what you did is you started out by not having as many filters where the company was just like thrown on the list, and then as you did that, the act of doing that caused you to have some of these realizations and then caused you to pull them back off the list. Is that right?
• 31:03
  hreya Rawal: Yeah. Yeah.
• 31:04
  cott Anthony Barlow: So I think that that's something that a lot of people miss. A lot of people never add them to the list in the first place. And then the thing that happens is they miss getting those realizations of temporarily having a soft commitment to this next step. Where in this case, it's just literally adding organizations to a list. I think it's a really subtle thing, but so many, so many learnings, and of those realizations just don't happen if that act never happens. So after going on those interviews, were you interested in all of them, or did that make it apparent that some of them you were less interested in?
• 31:45
  hreya Rawal: Some of them I was definitely less interested in. Some of them I went through with the interview 'cause I got it. I remember one time a recruiter reached out to me and I was like, “I'll just interview just to interview.” But the company was like, it was basically the exact same thing as PwC. It would've been the exact role, but I was like, “Let me not say no to this.” And I just interviewed, but there's definitely some companies that, as I was going through, I was like, “I don't think I would really want to work here.” But when you're unemployed and you have an interview, you'll take it, so
• 32:12
  cott Anthony Barlow: Well, I think that's a really interesting dynamic and dichotomy, like the difference between what you're describing, “Hey, I had this recruiter reach out to me,” which probably indicates that it's, you know, the same past experience that you already had in one way or another. Same version, just different company name, versus you identifying what could be a potential fit and you going and doing the research to find an organization, seeking them out, and then at that point it's already much more likely to be a fit and then going in and interviewing. And it sounds like for you, not only did it feel different, but obviously, the results were dramatically different too, in terms of success rate.
• 32:52
  hreya Rawal: Yeah, no, for sure.
• 32:53
  cott Anthony Barlow: The interview process as a whole, do you remember what you did to prepare it?
• 33:00
  hreya Rawal: I feel like it's a normal response to get really nervous before interviews, so I kind of like just told myself, “It's just a conversation. They already looked through your resume. You're good enough to get an interview. They just want a conversation.” And I feel like telling myself that before the interviews help me not be as stressed. And then when you are not as stressed, you could think clearly, you're not stuttering. You can be yourself, basically. And I feel like that's what they wanna see more than anything, know how you are as a worker. I think the biggest tip, something that, like I still tell people if they're considering quitting their jobs or if they want to do something else, is having those test drive conversations. I think people are scared to just coldly reach out to people on LinkedIn or people that have, you know, interesting roles you want to work. You would be surprised how many people will say yes and how many people are willing to just have a 15-minute conversation with you. And I still do that. Still, in my career job, I'll ask people to coffee chats and stuff and it's so beneficial. Like you learn so much more by being able to talk to someone that works in that role or works in that company and building that like interaction, that face-to-face interaction will help you in your career a lot. And people, you don't realize like how nice people actually are, people are willing to help you. But like those conversations helped me the most and I think throughout the rest of my career, I'll continue to use that going forward. If you're ready to stop believing the stories that are actually keeping you stuck and start creating the career in the life that you want, drop me an email directly, scott@happentoyourcareer.com. Put “Conversation” in the subject line. We'll connect you with the right person on our team, and we'll figure out the very best way that we can support you. Happen To Your Career - Meaningful Work, Career Change, Career Design, & Job Search