Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #523 Should We Argue in Front of the Kids?

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#523 Should We Argue in Front of the Kids? · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just answers.
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Speaker 2: Now, parents who sit down and say, we're not seeing
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Speaker 2: this the same way. Let's figure this out together. They
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Speaker 2: have kids that are better adapted.
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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum
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Speaker 1: and dad.
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Speaker 2: Hello, this is doctor Justin Coulson, the founder of Happy
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Speaker 2: Families dot coment you and the host co host. Well,
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Speaker 2: I nearly gave myself a promotion the co host of
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Speaker 2: Channel nine's Parental Guidance Season two coming soon.
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Speaker 3: It wouldn't be the first time you've tried to promote yourself.
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Speaker 2: Oh, I can't believe that you just said that. The
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Speaker 2: smarter ally, smarter ally. Over the other side of the
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Speaker 2: table is missus Happy Families, my wife, my number one supporter,
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Speaker 2: the person who encourages me so much to live my
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Speaker 2: best life and make a difference in other people's lives. Well, hey, honey,
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Speaker 2: thanks so much for that. Hey, we've got a listener
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Speaker 2: question that's come through today, and I think that's a
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Speaker 2: really interesting one because we don't really talk about it
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Speaker 2: very much. We're usually talking about parenting. We're talking about
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Speaker 2: how to help our families to be happy. This one, though,
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Speaker 2: is dealing with maybe the darker side of relationships. In fact,
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Speaker 2: what we've done is summarized it into one single sentence
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Speaker 2: because we've had multiple questions about this over the last
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Speaker 2: little while. The question is arguing in front of the kids,
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Speaker 2: how do we do it? Should we do it? What
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Speaker 2: happens when it happens, is it okay? Do we need
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Speaker 2: to stop? And so on. So we've had a number
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Speaker 2: of people who have asked that question. We thought today
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Speaker 2: we would address that, and I've decided to turn the
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Speaker 2: tables reverse roles a little bit today. I've studied this
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Speaker 2: ad nauseum, but I decided to ask missus happy families.
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Speaker 2: I asked Kyla to go and do a little bit
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Speaker 2: of research and see what you could find. So Kyleie
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Speaker 2: is actually going to drive the conversation today, and I'm
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Speaker 2: going to do what I always do in Baden. Yes,
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Speaker 2: some additional knowledge and insights based on the stuff that
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Speaker 2: you found online. I have no idea what you've got
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Speaker 2: on that piece of paper. I don't even know if
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Speaker 2: I'm going to agree with it all, but we'll talk
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Speaker 2: it through and see where we end up. So Kylie
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Speaker 2: arguing in front of the kids. What did you discover
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Speaker 2: as you did a little bit of hunting around.
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Speaker 3: Well, the reality is fighting is inevitable. That's the first thing,
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Speaker 3: Like you said earlier in the week, if we're in
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Speaker 3: a relationship, it is inevitable that there's going to be
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Speaker 3: a conflict in likes dislikes, life experience, and it gets
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Speaker 3: a little bit tricky. But one of the things that
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Speaker 3: came out of my research was just the recognition that
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Speaker 3: when there is parental arguing and high conflict in homes,
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Speaker 3: it's been linked to greater levels of the stress hormone
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Speaker 3: cortisol in babies.
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Speaker 2: Yep, yep. So I just want to bud in, which
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Speaker 2: is my specialty in a podcast like this, and emphasize
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Speaker 2: it's about the kind of conflict that's going on.
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Speaker 3: So we'll talk about that a little bit more later.
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Speaker 2: Oh really, okay, But if the conflict is high, if
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Speaker 2: there's volatility, if there's yelling, if there's raised voices, if
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Speaker 2: there's aggressive behavior, yeah, that kind of thing. It is
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Speaker 2: not just jarring, but is it is actually traumatizing. And
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Speaker 2: the younger the child, the more deep seated the effects
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Speaker 2: may be. And I think it's because a child there's
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Speaker 2: that unpredictability that insecurity, and there's no capacity to create
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Speaker 2: a narrative around it either it's just all happening completely
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Speaker 2: out of control. And so it's definitely the kind of
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Speaker 2: thing that can lead to or is associated with negative
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Speaker 2: outcomes as kids get older, all that stress hormone buzzing
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Speaker 2: around their brains.
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Speaker 3: So also increased blood pressure, difficulty concentrating, compromised academic performance,
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Speaker 3: disturbed sleep, anxiety, acting out, oppositional behavior, and health problems
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Speaker 3: such as frequent illness or delayed speech, tilet training, and
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Speaker 3: self soothing abilities.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so people who are working in a clinical setting,
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Speaker 2: in a therapeutic setting, they'll often have kids presenting or
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Speaker 2: parents presenting their children to them and saying he was
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Speaker 2: totally good with sleeping through the night without bed wedding,
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Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, it's happening again.
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Speaker 1: Or.
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Speaker 2: He's bullying or she's bullying other kids or acting out,
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Speaker 2: and all of this comes from or is associated with
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Speaker 2: those high conflict situations.
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Speaker 3: And then just the idea that high conflict homes threatens
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Speaker 3: our kids overall sense of security. Yes, and so the
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Speaker 3: research suggested that children that grew up in high conflict
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Speaker 3: homes were actually more likely to report poorer health behaviors,
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Speaker 3: especially when it came to substance abuse.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've always been astounded by this. So one of
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Speaker 2: the most powerful findings that we have is that kids
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Speaker 2: who live in homes where there are a lot of
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Speaker 2: protective factors, that is, they've got really good, secure relationships
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Speaker 2: with their parents, and they feel that sense of security,
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Speaker 2: like home is a safe haven for them, and they
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Speaker 2: know that they're supported, they know that they're connected. Children
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Speaker 2: that come from those kinds of homes they tend to
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Speaker 2: be less inclined to be sensation seeking, to be high
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Speaker 2: risk takers. They tend to find other friends who are
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Speaker 2: stable and are really good at regulating their emotions, and
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Speaker 2: they have higher levels of self control. And I think
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Speaker 2: that to some degree this is all down to modeling.
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Speaker 2: Like if you are able to regulate your emotions and
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Speaker 2: your behaviors, what that will typically mean is that you're
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Speaker 2: less likely to drink too much or take any drugs.
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Speaker 2: You're more likely to hold down a job but probably
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Speaker 2: have a good level of education. You're going to be
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Speaker 2: reasonably disciplined in your life, and by virtue of the
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Speaker 2: fact that that's who you are you create a system,
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Speaker 2: a series of habits in your home and run your
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Speaker 2: family along those lines. And so your children grow up
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Speaker 2: and they see you regulating your emotions and behaviors. They
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Speaker 2: see you experiencing disagreement with your spouse or partner, pausing, reflecting,
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Speaker 2: taking the other person's perspective, and engaging with them in
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Speaker 2: a conversation about it rather than flying off the handle
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Speaker 2: or same that's it, I've had enough, I'm out of here,
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Speaker 2: slamming the doors. You never listen to this, You that
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Speaker 2: they don't see all that sort of stuff. They see
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Speaker 2: this calm, considered, balanced level engagement with one another over
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Speaker 2: difficult issues. And what they do is they learn those skills.
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Speaker 2: They learn that way of being, which means that when
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Speaker 2: they're at school they know how to sit calmly and
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Speaker 2: think things through. It means that they know how to
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Speaker 2: engage with their friends in similar ways, and they get
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Speaker 2: to therefore, they actually self select into friendship groups where
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Speaker 2: they're dealing with people from similar kind of families, which
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Speaker 2: means that they're less likely to dive into the drugs
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Speaker 2: and the alcohol and make all those rash decisions and
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Speaker 2: play up in class. Now there's a number of other
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Speaker 2: predictors here. There's a number of other things that could
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Speaker 2: be associated with how things play out. We're talking about
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Speaker 2: things like ADHD and autism, We're talking about influences of
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Speaker 2: other people, the media, who knows what else. But as
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Speaker 2: a general rule, on average, this is why we see
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Speaker 2: kids from higher conflict homes experience all of those negative
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Speaker 2: outcomes that you've mentioned, and kids from low conflict homes
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Speaker 2: experience a whole range of much more positive, much more
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Speaker 2: optimal outcomes.
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Speaker 3: Well, since I am running the conversation today.
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Speaker 2: Did I just overshoot the bounds? Have I gone too far?
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Speaker 2: It's your podcast now, it's our podcast, it's everyone's podcasts,
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Speaker 2: maybe families.
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Speaker 3: It was interesting though, because when you gave the topic
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Speaker 3: to me, and I obviously recognized what we were talking
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Speaker 3: about in my mind before I even did any research.
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Speaker 3: I was just thinking about the fact that I actually
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Speaker 3: feel like it's really important that our kids see us
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Speaker 3: kind of go back and forward and try to work
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Speaker 3: things out, because if they don't. I mean, I've had
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Speaker 3: conversation with adult friends whose parents divorced when they were younger,
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Speaker 3: and they never knew that there was a conflict in
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Speaker 3: their home. It was so confusing to them because in
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Speaker 3: their mind everything was fine, and all of a sudden
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Speaker 3: it wasn't the break.
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Speaker 2: We're going to talk about how we are supposed to
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Speaker 2: manage our disagreements with our significant other in ways that
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Speaker 2: don't cause damage. Starting school is an exciting time, but
8:16
Speaker 2: it can also be a little worrying. The Starting School
8:18
Speaker 2: Activity Book is a printable workbook that will help prepare
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Speaker 2: your little one for the first thrilling school days and
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Speaker 2: give you tips on the best ways to talk about
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Speaker 2: all the new things they're going to experience. Perfect for kindie, preschool,
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Speaker 2: or big school, and absolutely free online at happy families
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Speaker 2: dot com dot a you.
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Speaker 3: It's the Happy Families Podcast, the podcast for a time
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Speaker 3: poor parent who just wants answers.
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Speaker 2: Now we're diving into a conversation about dealing with disagreement
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Speaker 2: in our long term relationships and our partnered relationships, and
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Speaker 2: what happens when our kids see that. Kylie, I think
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Speaker 2: that this conversation that you've taken this down is a
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Speaker 2: really important one kids are going to that they need
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Speaker 2: to be in some ways exposed to. I might even
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Speaker 2: use the word hardened to exposed to the stress of
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Speaker 2: disagreement between their parents. Now, we don't want that disagreement
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Speaker 2: to be abusive or aggressive. We don't want it to
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Speaker 2: be unbalanced and unequal. Well like we don't want to
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Speaker 2: see somebody dominating the other one and somebody loses their voice.
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Speaker 2: But both partners need to be assertive. And everybody has
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Speaker 2: different needs, different preferences, different desires and wants, and our
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Speaker 2: children need to be able to see that so that
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Speaker 2: they can learn how we see minor ruptures in our
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Speaker 2: relationships and how we repair those ruptures.
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Speaker 3: Well, I think if we're practicing those kind of I
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Speaker 3: guess positive conflict resolutions within our marriage, we're more likely
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Speaker 3: to do that with our children and help our children
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Speaker 3: to do the same in their friendships. And the modeling
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Speaker 3: just continues.
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Speaker 2: So in the research, yes, Professor Callson.
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Speaker 3: COLOGISTM Mark Cummings from the University of Notre Dame. He
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Speaker 3: actually that children who witness parents resolving conflict with compromise
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Speaker 3: and positive emotion can experience an increased sense of security
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Speaker 3: as opposed to what we've just previously talked about, develop
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Speaker 3: better self esteem and relationships with their parents, and have
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Speaker 3: fewer psychological issues. They actually do better at school and
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Speaker 3: they develop greater social skills.
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Speaker 2: Okay, So parents who negotiate and parents who compromise. In
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Speaker 2: other words, parents who sit down and say, we're not
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Speaker 2: seeing this the same way, let's figure this out together.
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Speaker 2: They have kids that are better adapted.
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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, so a couple of tips.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, because we're all going to have fights, right most
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Speaker 2: of us? Yea, and we're not.
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Speaker 3: If you've got a voice, I think we're all going
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Speaker 3: to end up having some form of conflict.
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Speaker 2: I don't think we are. I think it's avoidable. Yes,
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Speaker 2: argue with me, I disagree. I disagree with you disagreeing
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Speaker 2: with me? Sorry? What are the tips?
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Speaker 3: So two conversations that are really itch you, I'm sorry,
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Speaker 3: really important to not have in front of the kids. Yep,
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Speaker 3: adult only conversations.
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Speaker 2: Can I guess the other one?
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Speaker 3: Yep?
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Speaker 2: Don't fight about the kids in front of the kids.
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Speaker 3: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, So let's go through these one by one. So
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Speaker 2: adult only conversations meaning.
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Speaker 3: Well, let's let's just pull sex out of the cupboard.
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Speaker 3: Conversations of intimacy or differences in the bedroom would be
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Speaker 3: something that you would definitely not want to be discussing
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Speaker 3: in front of your kids. They don't have an understanding
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Speaker 3: of that relationship in any shape or form, and it's.
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Speaker 2: Not for kids.
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Speaker 3: It's not a conversation to have in front of kids.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, but there's also the conversations about Aunt Sarah or
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Speaker 2: your mother in law or your father in law or whoever.
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Speaker 2: It is, like, there are some.
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Speaker 3: Things what your best friends.
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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, Look.
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Speaker 3: Adult conversations that are for adult ears.
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Speaker 2: Don't talk to your kids about how your marriage is
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Speaker 2: going or your partnership is going. Like, if things aren't good,
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Speaker 2: your kids aren't your therapists are your kids. So there
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Speaker 2: are some things that kids just aren't supposed to be
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Speaker 2: involve Then I would even argue that there may be
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Speaker 2: some financial conversations that the kids shouldn't be involved in.
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Speaker 2: It's fine to talk to them about household budgeting and
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Speaker 2: that sort of thing, but you don't want to turn
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Speaker 2: them into your therapist, your financial advisor, the person that
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Speaker 2: has to parent you when things are out of control
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Speaker 2: and things aren't going well. Don't talk to them about
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Speaker 2: your alcoholism, don't talk to them about your big dramas.
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Speaker 2: That's not their job their kids.
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Speaker 3: I guess flowing in from that is just recognizing that
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Speaker 3: our kids don't need to be burdened by bigger problems.
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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, kids. Size problems belong to kids. Adult problems
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Speaker 2: belong to adults, not the kids.
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Speaker 3: And so the challenge we have as the big people
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Speaker 3: in the equation is actually putting their needs first when
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Speaker 3: we actually want to be heart when we've got a
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Speaker 3: chip on the shoulder, more times than not, we just
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Speaker 3: want to get it off, We want to get it out.
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Speaker 2: Just don't do it with the kids. And like you said,
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Speaker 2: the second thing not to talk to them about is
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Speaker 2: or not to talk in front of on of them.
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Speaker 2: If you want to have a winge about the kids,
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Speaker 2: do it behind closed doors in a way that they're
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Speaker 2: not going to hear about it, even if they're causing
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Speaker 2: you all sorts of challenges. We need to wrap this up.
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Speaker 2: Let's do it by highlighting how we should deal with
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Speaker 2: conflict with one another, how we should deal with disagreements
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Speaker 2: with another. It's really simple. It's got to do with
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Speaker 2: these three words beginning with E. The three e's. We
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Speaker 2: don't just use it for discipline, well, use it for
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Speaker 2: our adult to adult conversations as well. We explore, we explain,
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Speaker 2: and we empower. Now that's going to be different with
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Speaker 2: your partner or spouse than it will be with your kids.
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Speaker 2: But Kyl, if you're having a tough time, my number
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Speaker 2: one responsibility to say, hey, tell me what's going on, Like,
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Speaker 2: I'm here to explore, I'm here to support you. This
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Speaker 2: matters because you matter. And then if we've got a
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Speaker 2: different perspective, I might after I've listened to you, hopefully
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Speaker 2: I'm going to say we're seeing it differently. Can I
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Speaker 2: explain where I'm coming from? And hopefully if I've heard
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Speaker 2: you well, you'll be open to hearing from me. Usually
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Speaker 2: that's not what happens, by the way. Usually you explain
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Speaker 2: where you're coming from, and I just say sorry because
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Speaker 2: you're right, And I'm not saying that in a rude way.
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Speaker 2: I mean it like I just haven't considered your perspective enough.
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Speaker 2: But sometimes my perspective is, sophi' be valid that I
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Speaker 2: do need to explain it to you. And so you're
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Speaker 2: usually good enough to say, sure, what's the deal from
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Speaker 2: your perspective, And then, rather than empowering you, which is
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Speaker 2: what you do with a child, once you've been working
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Speaker 2: through a disipline process, what we'll usually do is we'll say, well,
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Speaker 2: how are we going to figure this out? Where do
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Speaker 2: we go from here? What's the way forward? In other words,
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Speaker 2: it's a conversation where we say, now it's time for
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Speaker 2: the negotiation, the compromise, now that we see one another's
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Speaker 2: points of view really clearly, and that's kind of it.
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Speaker 2: It's not rocket surgery.
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Speaker 3: So the take home message is fighting is inevitable, but
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Speaker 3: there's some great ways that we can have conversations that
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Speaker 3: are going to actually end up being positive role models
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Speaker 3: for our children as they navigate relationships.
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Speaker 2: The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Roland from
14:44
Speaker 2: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer. We're so
14:47
Speaker 2: grateful for the great work that both Craig and Justin
14:49
Speaker 2: do so that you can have this podcast in your
14:52
Speaker 2: feed every day. We sure hope it's helpful if you
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Speaker 2: are enjoying the podcast, if it gives you great food
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Speaker 2: for thought, if it makes your family happier, help us out.
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Speaker 2: find out about the podcast, their families get happier, and
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Speaker 2: the happy cycle continues. Thanks so much for listening. We'll
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