Latest / Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald / Juicy Crimes with Matt Murphy on Menendez Brothers, Marijuana, Murders, and Serial Killers

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Juicy Crimes with Matt Murphy on Menendez Brothers, Marijuana, Murders, and Serial Killers · Juicy Scoop with Heather McDonald

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: From morning swims in Sandy Cove to coffee in Ranelagh
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• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Heather MacDonald has got the Juicy Scoop. When you're on
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: the road, when you're on the go, Juicy Scoop is
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: the show to know. She talks Hollywood tales for real life.
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: Mr.
• 0:43
  Speaker 4: Saving Serial Data and Serial Sisters.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: You'll be addicted and addicted fast to the number one
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: tabloid real life podcast. Listen in, listen up. Woo, woo.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Heather MacDonald. Juicy Scoop. Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. Well,
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: you guys, I'm so excited. I'm getting ready to come
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: to the East Coast and I'm bringing Juicy Scoop, the
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: hilarious comedians that have come on the show before, Andrea
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: Lopez and Anna Roisman. You know them, you love them.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: They're gonna be featuring with me. We're gonna be doing
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: some funny sketches, some improv, some standup, all of it.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: And that is February 14th at the Palladium in New York.
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: Then we go to DC on the 15th. and on
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: the 16th, Red Bank, New Jersey. Everything is at heathermcdonald.net. Now,
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: before we get into my really juicy interview with everyone's
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: favorite prosecutor, Matt Murphy, you're going to die. We get
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: into a lot of it. But first, I just want
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: to give a little update on the Blake versus Justin
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: legal battle. You know, The last two times I've talked
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: about it, I've gotten a lot of comments like, Heather,
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: I can't believe that you are at all siding with Blake.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Like Justin has been in your position where people have
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: said lies about you and you want to prove that
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: these are not true. And I have done more research
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: on it. Look, it's a lot of pages. It's a
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: lot of things. And I will say that more and
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: more is coming out. I see why the majority of
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: people are team Justin Baldoni. I really do. And it
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: is very interesting. And now, originally, I thought maybe this
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: is why he's doing this $ 400 million lawsuit is just
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: to get this lawsuit out in the public so that
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: people can read it all and see all of his
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: text messages. And he's got all these uncut scenes and
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: videos because it's his production company that was in charge
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: of this film to prove his point that he was
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: not ever acting inappropriately to Blake Lively and all of this.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: There are so many details to it. So he recently,
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: his people put out a video from the movie, which
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: they were shooting for a montage. So it was going
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: to be just parts of music so they could talk.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: And but they had to be like romantic and act
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: like they're dancing. And they're having this conversation and they're
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: trying to like act like they're about to kiss. And
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: she goes, oh, my God, this is so many noses.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: And he's like, oh, I have a big nose. And
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: she's like, yeah. And, you know, I want to talk
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: to you about that. And they're kind of joking. And
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: she's like, you know, you could take a day off
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: or we could do an insurance months or something, meaning
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: like stop production and get you a nose job. And
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: then he goes, oh, yeah, that's why we hired Jenny Slate,
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: because they play brother and sister. And so that I
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: kind of thought was like a dig to her. But,
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: you know, whatever. But also then people did some research,
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: and Blake Lively indisputably has had a nose job, which
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: maybe that's why she was like talking about it. Maybe
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: she would have confessed to him. Maybe he already knew.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: If you look at her first movies– She has a
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: very different nose than she has now. Just a little interesting.
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: But in this, he was like, look, clearly we had
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: an easy relationship. She's comfortable with me. I'm supposed to
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: be acting romantic with her for this montage scene. So
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: he's sniffing her neck and she's like, oh, sorry, that's
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: my spray tan. It must smell. He's like, no, it
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: smells good. So he puts that out and then her
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: team are like, good, I'm glad you put it out.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: Now you can see how inappropriate it was and how
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: uncomfortable I was. And I was saying these weird jokes
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: because I was so uncomfortable with you. I don't think
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: the audience is buying it. I think this is a
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: real fine line because it's a movie and because you
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: are playing a romantic couple. So it is very, very strange.
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: And now he has set up a Web site. so
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: that everybody can go to this website and see for
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: themselves all this evidence. Blake Lively's team has asked a
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: judge to stop this, and his attorney doing interviews and everything.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: There is a consensus of, was she secretly in love
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: with Justin, flirting with him, and once he officially rejected her,
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: then she went on this campaign to you know, destroy
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: his life? Did Ryan Reynolds maybe see these long texts
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: that now we are privy to and think that it
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: was inappropriate or flirty on her end and therefore he
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: also went after Justin? It's weird because the movie, we
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: knew they weren't getting along. The movie was a success.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: We kind of forgot about it. We forgot that they
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: didn't– when I saw this like a month and a
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: half ago before the lawsuits, I wasn't thinking, oh, that's right.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: The two of them didn't really like each other when
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: they were at the premiere. I had totally forgotten about it.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: She came forward with all these complaints to say, you
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: have destroyed my reputation. I didn't think her reputation was
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: at all destroyed, but was it a little tarnished? Did
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: we think she was a little bit? She's sure, but
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: not to the point that no one wanted to work
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: with her. But because she did that, then he– then
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: he had– To go after her. Otherwise, he was staying
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: silent about it. So what do we think is going
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: to come of it? There are predictions from he will
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: get a settlement that we will never know because she
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: won't want to go to trial with this because it
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: appears he has so much evidence in his favor to
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: say that her, you know, her complaints were invalid. And or,
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: you know, will they end up getting will she and
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: Ryan end up breaking up over this? Like what is
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: going to happen? My prediction, or will it go to
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: trial like Johnny Depp and Amber Heard? I don't know.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: I'm going to say it does get settled and he
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: ends up prevailing and he ends up getting a lot
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: of work because of it. And she goes away for
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: a little bit. We just don't really hear from her
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: in a while. And then she comes out and does
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: something really good in about like two or three years,
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: like a series or something. And this is all forgotten.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: People forget about it. And as long as whatever new
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: project she does, she brings cookies and it is a
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: delight and looks everyone in the eye. And Ryan Reynolds
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: is nowhere to be seen on the set, providing they're
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: still together. Then I think everyone could be fine. So
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: that is my prediction settlement. And Ryan continues to have
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: a successful career. She goes away for a little bit,
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: comes back, continues to have a successful career. But where
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: their relationship is as Ryan and Blake, I don't know.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: But Ryan will continue with Deadpool and continue to be
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: successful because he's a dude and nobody cares. Girls are
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: much harder on Blake, for sure, and judging her behavior
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: than anything Ryan could do. Also, Real Housewives of New York. Wow.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: I know I haven't talked much about it. I've said
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: it's boring. The finale was very upsetting and weird. Juicy,
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: like I leaned forward, I watched it. It involves Brynn
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: straight up possibly lying about a situation with Uba. And
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: I'm going to get into it because I have a
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: lot of theories and some personal things that I know
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: about the players involved. But I noticed that even though
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: I thought it was a really juicy episode, again, nobody
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: was really talking about it because I think that you
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: guys have lost interest in it. But I will share
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: that and so much more on my Patreon. You guys
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: have to join my Patreon if you have not already.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: I've been doing it for eight years. You get access
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: to all the past episodes. They We get into so
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: much juicy stuff with Matt Murphy that we go long,
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: and I saved the more controversial, juicy conspiracy theories, things
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: like that, for a special episode of Juicy Crimes, which
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: is on that tier of Patreon. Also, you'll be getting
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: that this weekend. All of that and the tickets to
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: my shows, as well as March 1st at Agua Caliente
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: in Palm Springs, are at heathermcdonald.net. Okay, now for my interview.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Juicy Scoop. I have returned author,
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: former prosecutor, everyone's favorite surfer, Matt Murphy. Welcome back to
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: Juicy Scoop.
• 9:45
  Speaker 5: Thank you. Me and Kelly Slater, we're colleagues.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: Are you guys, do you know him?
• 9:50
  Speaker 5: No, I got paid to do, I got a Hulu
• 9:54
  Speaker 5: thing coming out on a three-parter and they wanted to
• 9:56
  Speaker 5: do some B-roll with me surfing.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 9:58
  Speaker 5: Which was the worst thing. day of surfing in the
• 10:01
  Speaker 5: history of Manhattan Beach. It was like two feet, even smaller.
• 10:04
  Speaker 5: Just like embarrassing. Tiny, tiny little waves.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Super gray.
• 10:06
  Speaker 5: Super gray. Like nothing that I could possibly do, but
• 10:10
  Speaker 5: technically I got paid for it, which makes me a
• 10:12
  Speaker 5: pro surfer, which means Kelly Slater is my colleague.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: Are they going to use it in the Hulu thing? Yeah,
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: they're going to use it. And what is the Hulu
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: thing on?
• 10:18
  Speaker 5: So the Hulu thing is on my Nayiri case, my
• 10:20
  Speaker 5: last trial as a DA that we were going to
• 10:23
  Speaker 5: go into.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: Okay, we're going to get into this. Your book is out.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Juicy Scoopers have loved it. And I wanted to ask you,
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: the first thing you said when you got here, I
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: was like, ooh, has anybody wanted to make this a
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: series or a movie about your life in general? Because
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: the book covers juicy murders, but also your life as
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: a prosecutor in Newport Beach.
• 10:45
  Speaker 5: So right when I left the DA's office, and this
• 10:49
  Speaker 5: is really kind of fun, Jerry Bruckheimer bought my life rights.
• 10:53
  Speaker 5: And that was a really interesting ride for me. So
• 10:57
  Speaker 5: I go from 26 years as a government public servant
• 11:01
  Speaker 5: doing all these interesting cases, And they really liked the
• 11:05
  Speaker 5: idea of, like, a surfing prosecutor.
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: So for, like, a series.
• 11:09
  Speaker 5: For a series, yeah. For, like, a scripted series. They
• 11:11
  Speaker 5: loved the base. They hired these two great writers who
• 11:14
  Speaker 5: I really liked. They write for the show Bull. And
• 11:18
  Speaker 5: we completely, we hit it off. But this is, COVID
• 11:22
  Speaker 5: is just kind of starting to set in.
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 11:24
  Speaker 5: It was a weird time. Yeah. And then we wound up...
• 11:27
  Speaker 5: they put together this idea, and it was like sort
• 11:32
  Speaker 5: of an ensemble, like who's your investigator.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: Who's your pro-legal. Yeah, I can totally see it.
• 11:37
  Speaker 5: You're going to murder scenes, and essentially it was all
• 11:40
  Speaker 5: loosely based on real life.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: I can totally see it. It's like your character holding
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: the surfboard, and then you're like, what's my investigator doing here?
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: And he's like, It's, you know, here's a coffee. Well,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: let me tell you what I got. Like, I could
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: totally see it.
• 11:55
  Speaker 5: Which the funny thing is, you can see it on TV,
• 11:57
  Speaker 5: and that's the way it really kind of was. And
• 12:01
  Speaker 5: that's the thing about working for a vertical homicide unit
• 12:03
  Speaker 5: for all those years, because they let you stay. I
• 12:05
  Speaker 5: was in homicide for 17 years. And I had Newport,
• 12:08
  Speaker 5: Costa Mesa, as you know, Laguna Beach, and Irvine. So
• 12:11
  Speaker 5: every one of those murders, I was at Costa Mesa
• 12:13
  Speaker 5: yesterday doing some admin work.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: Well, I still think this has got to happen. Because
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: the made-up cases could be so fun if we stick
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: to that area, which is true to you and now
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: America is much more familiar with because of TV and
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: Real Housewives of OC and all of that. Yeah. Oh,
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: I think this, okay, we got to make it happen.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: So this deal is dead now. We need to find
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: a new buyer to sell your TV show.
• 12:42
  Speaker 5: Yeah, so the book came out in September. And I've got,
• 12:45
  Speaker 5: my agent's a guy named Mark McGrath at CAA. And
• 12:48
  Speaker 5: he is a rock star. I love him. And so
• 12:50
  Speaker 5: he's got, he's one of the, he's constantly thinking, he's
• 12:53
  Speaker 5: constantly got ideas. So this is like next phase.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: Well, this episode of Juicy Scoop is what's going to
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: seal your deal. I make careers happen.
• 13:01
  Speaker 5: Which is very nice of you.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: I'll tell you what the show idea is going to be.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: And there could be some humor in it. You know,
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: a real housewife could make, you know, there could be
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: some crime. And actually one real housewife is like a
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: witness or something. She's an ex-wife of somebody. And she's like,
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: I don't want this. And then you're like, wait, there's
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: a look at this episode of Watch What Happens Live
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: with Andy Cohen. Wait, go back. Go back. What did
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: she say right there? And like, oh. Done! My God,
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: why is this not already happening?
• 13:31
  Speaker 5: I'm all for you being a soothsayer, especially since I've
• 13:33
  Speaker 5: been cheating on you with Megyn Kelly.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Right. Let's get into the real issues here. Yes, I
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: saw you on Megyn Kelly. You know what? I just,
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: it's fine.
• 13:45
  Speaker 5: You know, there are people we could see, you know?
• 13:48
  Speaker 5: They could talk to us, you know? I think we
• 13:51
  Speaker 5: could make great progress with a professional.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: But you did say this is more your favorite. You
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: do enjoy me more than my blonde counterpart.
• 13:59
  Speaker 5: This is absolutely my favorite. Here's the thing with Megyn Kelly.
• 14:03
  Speaker 5: And I also, Sunny Haasen had me on as well.
• 14:06
  Speaker 5: And in the Venn diagram of those two women politically
• 14:10
  Speaker 5: in the world, I may be the one point of
• 14:12
  Speaker 5: agreement because I actually get along great with both of them.
• 14:15
  Speaker 5: Of course.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: Why wouldn't you?
• 14:17
  Speaker 5: But Megyn Kelly is such, she's like, she's such a
• 14:22
  Speaker 5: pro when you, when you sit down with her, that it's,
• 14:24
  Speaker 5: to me, it's almost weirdly intimidating because she's got like,
• 14:28
  Speaker 5: every clip is lined up perfectly, you know, like she's,
• 14:31
  Speaker 5: and she's just, and, and they don't, she doesn't tell you,
• 14:35
  Speaker 5: you know, ahead of time. And so I wind up
• 14:36
  Speaker 5: with like, she's like, she, she pulled ancient clips of
• 14:40
  Speaker 5: me in court doing a cross examination. She's like, I'm
• 14:44
  Speaker 5: telling her a story and she's like, Oh yeah, we
• 14:45
  Speaker 5: got that.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: Here it is.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: Boom.
• 14:47
  Speaker 5: And all of a sudden I'm watching myself and it's,
• 14:49
  Speaker 5: But yeah, she is. It's funny. We live in an
• 14:52
  Speaker 5: interesting time, though, because she she helped me talk about
• 14:55
  Speaker 5: the book, you know, and she's a true crime fan
• 14:58
  Speaker 5: to like just in general. And it is, you know,
• 15:03
  Speaker 5: you go on on Megyn Kelly show and I think
• 15:06
  Speaker 5: she's friggin awesome. And then and then I get Instagram
• 15:09
  Speaker 5: hate because I went on her show and then I
• 15:11
  Speaker 5: go on Sonny's Sonny show and I get like Instagram hate.
• 15:15
  Speaker 5: You know, like it's.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: But you don't get any hate when you come online.
• 15:19
  Speaker 5: Very little.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: Probably about certain opinions or something.
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: You know what I got in trouble was when we
• 15:23
  Speaker 5: were talking about the Karen Reid case.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: People were freaks about the Karen Reid case. Like they,
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: you know what it is, is with certain legal cases,
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: which I do talk about, I'm talking a lot about
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Blake and Justin, you know. And some of the people
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: that are really, really into it. It happened with Johnny
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: Depp and Amber Heard. And I'm like, let me remind
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: you people. And even though I am doing some juicy
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: crime stuff with you, I am not a lawyer. I
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: did not read 179 pages of the case. I was
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: not on the jury. But there are lay people that
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: really have put in 8 to 10 hours. And they're
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: watching other people that have put in 8 to 10 hours.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: And then I do seven minutes on it. And I'm
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: doing a comedic commentary. I'm like, that's the show. It's
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: comedic commentary on pop culture and crimes and stuff. I
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: don't know it. I'm just saying this is out there
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: and this is what I find is interesting. Like, chill out.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: But I love that it sparks any kind of. Emotion
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: for someone to write something good, bad, or whatever.
• 16:26
  Speaker 5: I told you Camille Vasquez. I told you she was
• 16:29
  Speaker 5: my old student, right?
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Who was the Johnny Depps?
• 16:33
  Speaker 5: She was the lawyer that cross-examined Amber Heard.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: Well, a lot of people are comparing this Justin Blake
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: Lively stuff to that kind of a situation. And people
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: really already, before we even get to any kind of
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: trials or whatever with Justin, everyone has shifted to pro-Justin.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: An anti, you know, anti-Blake, which I can understand why. However,
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: you know, we'll see. We'll see. I think it'll never
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: make it to trial. I think we're heading towards some
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: type of like quiet shut up, but we'll see what happens.
• 17:07
  Speaker 5: You know, I think we talked about this back in
• 17:10
  Speaker 5: the day about Johnny Depp. Like I kind of thought
• 17:12
  Speaker 5: when that first got filed, that was the best result
• 17:14
  Speaker 5: for everybody. If it's just, you know, without really understanding
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: it before I talked to Camille about it.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:19
  Speaker 5: I thought like this should just quietly go away and
• 17:21
  Speaker 5: everybody kind of goes their own. But, you know, it
• 17:24
  Speaker 5: wound up being sensational. It wound up being a trial.
• 17:26
  Speaker 5: And I understand why he did it now. Like he wanted,
• 17:28
  Speaker 5: he was trying to restore his reputation after getting just mauled.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: And that's what just, apparently that's what Justin is doing too.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: And it's kind of like he got, I think both
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: of the men feel like they're in a place where
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: they're like, I've got nothing to lose.
• 17:40
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: I already lost it. And so it's like, no, let's go.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: Let's go. And so.
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: Christmas shopping has already started in our house. My daughter
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: is so organised, already planning Christmas gifts from Macaulay. Hair
• 17:54
  Speaker 4: care for her aunt and a fab fragrance for her bestie.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: But the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: I'm an early bird, buying one present a week from
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: now till Christmas, which makes budgeting less stressful. I can
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: buy in-store or online from Macaulay.ie for home delivery or
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: free click and collect.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: So easy.
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: Gifts they'll cherish at prices you'll love.
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: I'm Darman, and this is What Happens Next. Each week
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: on the show, I sit down with extraordinary people who
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: have faced tremendous setbacks, and yet somehow have found a
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: way to turn them into their greatest strengths.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Life is one long lesson of chaos.
• 18:32
  Speaker 5: I'm heading to the Emmys, and I have police complaints
• 18:35
  Speaker 5: filed against me.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: When your free will was about to be taken from you,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: what would you do if it was given back?
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: Where did that need come from, where you thought that
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: you had to succeed in order to feel loved?
• 18:46
  Speaker 5: He said, I have a work dad. I need a
• 18:47
  Speaker 5: home dad. What happens next?
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: When I came in, he started crying.
• 18:51
  Speaker 5: Everybody in life encounters hardships.
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: What defines them is not those hard moments that they
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: go through.
• 18:57
  Speaker 5: It's about what happens next.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: I decided to risk it all.
• 19:00
  Speaker 5: I realized how valuable every day was. You're worth the work.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: Listen, Dara, I'm not going to pull punches. You can
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: use your voice even if it shakes.
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: The stories are different, but the impact is the same.
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: Only one question matters. What happens next?
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: Well, let's get into real quickly, too. You know, we
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: talked about right when you got here, what are your
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: thoughts about the L.A.
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: Fires?
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: And this is where it gets a little juicy, a
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: little controversial. Might have to put this on Patreon. Tell
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: me what you think.
• 19:38
  Speaker 5: Well, first of all, I lived in the Palisades. When
• 19:41
  Speaker 5: I was in high school going to Loyola, I had
• 19:44
  Speaker 5: some problems with my dad. And he wound up kicking
• 19:46
  Speaker 5: me out for a while. And the family that took
• 19:48
  Speaker 5: me in was one of my friends at Loyola, still
• 19:51
  Speaker 5: one of my best friends, Greg Maffei. His parents are
• 19:53
  Speaker 5: now 90. They live in the Castlemore section of the Palisades,
• 19:56
  Speaker 5: and half their neighborhood burned down. I don't think.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: I ever want to see. They're still alive and their
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: house is standing?
• 20:02
  Speaker 5: Their house is standing. How it is standing. It's probably
• 20:05
  Speaker 5: just good old fashioned, like asbestos, everything, you know, asbestos
• 20:08
  Speaker 5: bricks because their next door neighbor, the house behind them,
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: like literally all in a ring and their fences burned down. And,
• 20:16
  Speaker 5: but they're, they're 90 years old and that, and it
• 20:19
  Speaker 5: was traumatic for them.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: Of course.
• 20:21
  Speaker 5: I never want to see another 90 year old man cry.
• 20:24
  Speaker 5: And it is, and we grew up here, right? everybody
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: in LA knows somebody that was fundamentally traumatized by this.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
• 20:33
  Speaker 5: And look, and this is more than, this is not,
• 20:35
  Speaker 5: not getting political here, but when you hear that the
• 20:38
  Speaker 5: fire hydrants weren't frigging working and we had an empty
• 20:40
  Speaker 5: reservoir and everybody from the governor on down, it's just
• 20:43
  Speaker 5: trying to point fingers somewhere else. It is infuriating when
• 20:46
  Speaker 5: you see the actual, like, you know, um, like somebody
• 20:50
  Speaker 5: needs to step up and take some responsibility for that.
• 20:52
  Speaker 5: And we haven't seen it yet. And it is, when
• 20:55
  Speaker 5: you get into the nitty, like the actual human trauma
• 20:59
  Speaker 5: of that, that everybody in LA has experienced vicariously with
• 21:02
  Speaker 5: somebody like my buddy, I'm going to, I'm going to
• 21:06
  Speaker 5: Samoa on Saturday, like two days on a surf trip
• 21:08
  Speaker 5: with my buddy, Sean, who I've talked about before we
• 21:11
  Speaker 5: go on all the trips. He's in the book. Um,
• 21:13
  Speaker 5: you know, he lost his house, his mother's house and
• 21:16
  Speaker 5: his mother-in-law's house in those fires. And now he's obviously
• 21:19
  Speaker 5: not going on the trip. Like This was.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: Do they have kids? Does he have kids?
• 21:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah, he's got kids. Everybody is... It's awful. And, like,
• 21:25
  Speaker 5: finding new schools. Right.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's the thing with the kids. You know, like,
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: the finding new schools, the sports, all of that. You know,
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: I think I saw something recently when someone said, you know,
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: it's hard because you might know five people. And one
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: person really might be doing okay. They, you know, weren't
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: super sentimental about their house. They're grateful that they have
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: money or whatever. And then another person... It was all
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: about their house. And that was their sanctuary. That was
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: their memories. There was this. So it's like in speaking
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: to someone just like in death or whatever, you have
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: to be really kind of careful. And because one person
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: seems like they're OK, you know, and then it'll go
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: in waves. You know, so it's like a lot like
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: people need to be around and do stuff for people
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: six months from now. Maybe that's when they need the
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: fun to buy the furniture. You know what I mean? Like,
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: so we have to be there for the long haul for.
• 22:21
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Then you see the clips of the looters, you know,
• 22:23
  Speaker 5: and you see the clips of people trying to light
• 22:25
  Speaker 5: stuff on fire. Like all the I mean, there's like
• 22:28
  Speaker 5: there's consequences to the way L.A. has been run.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 22:32
  Speaker 5: And we're seeing it, you know, in stark, you know.
• 22:37
  Speaker 5: high definition right now. It's, it's, and it, it's kind of, um,
• 22:41
  Speaker 5: it's maddening. And also like their house is there, but the,
• 22:44
  Speaker 5: like they can't go back to it. Their entire neighborhood's closed.
• 22:47
  Speaker 5: And what's happening right now in a lot of those,
• 22:49
  Speaker 5: I mean, this is a very wealthy part of the
• 22:51
  Speaker 5: city for those who haven't heard or don't know. A
• 22:53
  Speaker 5: lot of people have safes and fire safes with like,
• 22:56
  Speaker 5: you know, jewelry in there and diamonds. And if they
• 22:59
  Speaker 5: didn't get out in time and get their, get their safes.
• 23:01
  Speaker 5: So these looters are going into those areas. And, um, Fortunately,
• 23:06
  Speaker 5: we've got Nathan Hockman now, and George Gascon is out,
• 23:08
  Speaker 5: thank God. Our former DA in Los Angeles that was,
• 23:12
  Speaker 5: I think, responsible for a lot of the lawlessness that
• 23:14
  Speaker 5: we're seeing. But that might be a little political. But
• 23:17
  Speaker 5: Hockman is– he's coming down much harder on them and
• 23:20
  Speaker 5: hopefully going to offer a little deterrence. But, no, it's
• 23:24
  Speaker 5: really– I went from being brokenhearted over it to kind
• 23:28
  Speaker 5: of semi-furious. And I think a lot of us are
• 23:31
  Speaker 5: entering that– the five stages of death.
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 23:34
  Speaker 5: What– like– when they're able to move back into their house,
• 23:36
  Speaker 5: their neighborhood is all burned down. Like there's no stores there.
• 23:39
  Speaker 5: There's no, you know, not 90 year olds. I don't
• 23:41
  Speaker 5: know if they'll ever go back even though the house
• 23:43
  Speaker 5: is still standing.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: It's going to be a long haul, but since you
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: brought up the prosecutor, I'm actually going to get right
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: into the Menendez brothers. You know, I've talked a lot
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: about it. I don't need to remind everybody, anybody of
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: the Menendez brothers, but the latest one is The re-sentencing
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: hearing for Lyle and Eric Menendez has been postponed due
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: to disruptions caused by recent L.A. county fires. And originally
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: it was scheduled for January 30th, but now the new
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: dates are March 20th and 21st. What are your thoughts about,
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: did you watch the series?
• 24:14
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: Of Ryan Murphy. Okay, so let's just hear what your
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: thoughts are on everything and what your memories were back
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: when it was happening to us in real life and
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: people our age were able to watch court TV and everything.
• 24:28
  Speaker 5: OK, so the the what we saw on Netflix was
• 24:31
  Speaker 5: this is something that it's like this is not a
• 24:36
  Speaker 5: it's not a documentary documentary like that, especially the dramatized version.
• 24:40
  Speaker 5: You know, the Netflix, though, it's it's something that was
• 24:43
  Speaker 5: written successfully to evoke emotion as as any good movie.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 24:47
  Speaker 5: And it's based on real life. But look, we. I
• 24:52
  Speaker 5: was a baby DA when that case was going down.
• 24:54
  Speaker 5: And this was the case of the world back then, right?
• 24:57
  Speaker 5: Everybody's paying attention to it. I knew David Cohen, who
• 25:00
  Speaker 5: was the second prosecutor, pretty well. And he was a no-nonsense, good,
• 25:06
  Speaker 5: fair guy. And what Gascon did was massively unpopular in
• 25:14
  Speaker 5: the LADA's office. Among the rank and file, the actual
• 25:16
  Speaker 5: people that prosecute cases for a living that have dedicated
• 25:19
  Speaker 5: their life to public safety, like.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: What he did just a few months ago.
• 25:23
  Speaker 5: Recommending that they be re-sentenced. Yeah.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay.
• 25:26
  Speaker 5: Yeah. So when we watch that- Do.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: You think he did that as a Hail Mary to
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: get re-elected because he knew that there was such a
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: sentiment in LA of like, they've done enough time, this
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: evidence of molestation of the siblings and the, not the siblings,
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: but the cousins having evidence and they weren't being able
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: to be heard in the second trial and all of that.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: You know, which, again, I personally, as a taxpayer, if
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: they got out, I am OK with that, too. Like,
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: I feel like 35 years or whatever it's been, I
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: don't think they're going to go and kill anyone else's parents.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: So for me, I feel like it's been done. But,
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: you know, there's a lot more legal stuff that I
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: want you to of why that maybe shouldn't happen or
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: like looking at.
• 26:13
  Speaker 5: It that way. Objectively, it's like you're 100 percent right.
• 26:16
  Speaker 5: Like it's it's it's an inter-family homicide. OK. And it
• 26:20
  Speaker 5: is a and they've done what, 35 years.
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 26:23
  Speaker 5: So.
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 26:24
  Speaker 5: So when you just look at the numbers, you ask,
• 26:27
  Speaker 5: you know, am I going to lose any sleep if
• 26:28
  Speaker 5: they get out? Answers no. Right. And I mean, probably
• 26:31
  Speaker 5: same for me, kind of, maybe. But here's here's the
• 26:35
  Speaker 5: real deal here is that, you know, when you when
• 26:39
  Speaker 5: you talk about victims of sexual abuse and that's the
• 26:42
  Speaker 5: emotion behind it and that's Kim Kardashian going to prison
• 26:44
  Speaker 5: and going, I think they were sexually abused. Okay, so
• 26:46
  Speaker 5: when you break it down legally, and I've done these
• 26:49
  Speaker 5: cases where when you have murder for financial gain in
• 26:51
  Speaker 5: the state of California, if any part of the motive
• 26:55
  Speaker 5: is financial gain, you have satisfied all the elements of that. Okay,
• 26:58
  Speaker 5: so you can be motivated by 90% revenge against somebody
• 27:04
  Speaker 5: that sexually abused you. But if you know that you're
• 27:06
  Speaker 5: going to gain financially, the idea goes back to ancient Rome.
• 27:11
  Speaker 5: 99% motivation to go to the gym means we sit
• 27:13
  Speaker 5: on our couch. right? Like it means you don't go.
• 27:15
  Speaker 5: 99% motivated to do something means it doesn't happen. 100%
• 27:20
  Speaker 5: equals a whole. So if you're motivated 99% by being
• 27:24
  Speaker 5: molested in the past or something else, and that 1%
• 27:28
  Speaker 5: thing is, and I'm also going to inherit a whole
• 27:30
  Speaker 5: bunch of money, you know, and that's all it takes.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: That's really interesting. I don't think anyone has laid it
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: out like that, you know, and you know that because
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: of the law.
• 27:40
  Speaker 5: That's the law in the state of California.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: You're right. And you know, they... Definitely proved that, you know,
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: even like you said, even if it was just that
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: one percent, it's like, well, why shouldn't we have that money? Or,
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: you know, even when they they brought up the fact
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: that the one older brother didn't like the brand new
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: car that he was presented with. It was like, well,
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: if you were being abused for all these years and
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: part of the deal was, if you don't tell, I'm
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: going to get you a Ferrari and now you've got
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: a Carrera. or whatever, it was like, he could still
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: be mad about that. But you're right. It involves money.
• 28:16
  Speaker 5: It involves money.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: And if you're following the law, then it involves money.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: And I mean, we knew from what they did that
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: they were absolutely, and there were so many things with
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: the movie script that they wrote before about the two
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: boys that kill their parents.
• 28:30
  Speaker 5: Buying shotguns with fake IDs.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 28:35
  Speaker 5: And another, part of the way that it's been discussed
• 28:37
  Speaker 5: by Kardashian, by George Gascon, is, quote unquote, the victims, right?
• 28:42
  Speaker 5: As if they're one block and the family as if
• 28:44
  Speaker 5: they're a block. So legally, when you break it down,
• 28:47
  Speaker 5: you get an imperfect self-defense, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeal.
• 28:50
  Speaker 5: So after it goes through the state system, it winds
• 28:53
  Speaker 5: up in what are called habeas proceedings in front of
• 28:55
  Speaker 5: the Ninth Circuit. They are no rubber stamp for the prosecution.
• 28:58
  Speaker 5: And some of the cases, including Dating Game Killer, which
• 29:00
  Speaker 5: we're going to talk about, is they reverse that at
• 29:02
  Speaker 5: one point. They view every conviction with a very skeptical eye.
• 29:07
  Speaker 5: The Ninth Circuit, which is all... long been viewed as
• 29:10
  Speaker 5: the most liberal district court in the federal court system
• 29:13
  Speaker 5: in the United States, wrote the most scathing opinion about
• 29:16
  Speaker 5: the Menendez brothers and their defense, which is what is
• 29:19
  Speaker 5: known as imperfect self-defense, which means actual but unreasonable, which
• 29:23
  Speaker 5: means Eric and Lyle had to actually believe that Kitty Menendez,
• 29:28
  Speaker 5: not dad, Kitty Menendez posed a threat of death or
• 29:31
  Speaker 5: great bodily harm at the time they blew her face
• 29:34
  Speaker 5: off with a shotgun. Okay, so when you take California
• 29:37
  Speaker 5: law and you put it over, you overlay these facts,
• 29:41
  Speaker 5: you know, these guys started this.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: That was the instructions for the jury.
• 29:45
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's California law.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: And I don't think there's anybody that believes... That that
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: night they felt it's either now or tomorrow. We're going
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: to die. And that whole thing of they took us
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: on a boat and because they were going to throw
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: our bodies over when they like rented a boat with
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: like the with like the captain and the. And the
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: guy that made the sandwiches. And I was just like,
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: I don't think anybody believed that. But did they believe
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: that they felt there was no way getting out? The
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: one brother, he's like, you're staying here. You can't live
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: in the dorms at UCLA so that I could, you know,
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: abuse you for the next four years. And I'm just saying,
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: so I'm saying I get when you watch it all,
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: you're like, this was the most horrific family, horrible person.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: I definitely think that he was an abuser. I think
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: he probably abused some of the people from Minuto as well.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: But you're right. If those are your instructions as a jury,
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: you have to say, no, I don't think they actually
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: thought they were going to be murdered that next day.
• 30:44
  Speaker 5: And as a prosecutor, you look at that. Number one,
• 30:46
  Speaker 5: Eric was a professional athlete at that point. And his
• 30:50
  Speaker 5: mom weighed, what, 120 pounds. And so let's just say
• 30:54
  Speaker 5: for the sake of argument that Jose Menendez did all
• 30:56
  Speaker 5: that and it was all true.
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 30:59
  Speaker 5: You don't get to blow your mom's face off, and
• 31:00
  Speaker 5: that's what they did. These were Mossberg 12-gauge shotguns, and
• 31:03
  Speaker 5: I've seen murder scenes.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: Do you think if she was away that weekend with
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: her sister and they just did it to their dad,
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: do you think they could have either got a lesser
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: sentence or be more likely to get out or never
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: be convicted at all?
• 31:17
  Speaker 5: Well, I think that what they would be able to
• 31:18
  Speaker 5: do is they'd be able to say this is motivated
• 31:20
  Speaker 5: by something other than financial gain and be believed.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: Because you're right, because then Kitty would have gotten the money.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: But by killing her too.
• 31:29
  Speaker 5: Why kill mom?
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: You're right.
• 31:31
  Speaker 5: And, and, and I mean, there's so many problems with
• 31:33
  Speaker 5: it and everything you just said about, you know, going
• 31:35
  Speaker 5: on the boat and all that. The fundamental problem with
• 31:38
  Speaker 5: everything that we're seeing right now is it comes from them.
• 31:40
  Speaker 5: These are guys that lied to the 911 operator. They
• 31:43
  Speaker 5: lied to the responding officers. They lied to the detectives.
• 31:46
  Speaker 5: Then they have this whole thing with Dr. Oziel and
• 31:50
  Speaker 5: who believed that Lyle was going to murder him, which
• 31:52
  Speaker 5: is the only reason why they were able to violate, um,
• 31:55
  Speaker 5: The confidentiality. The confidentiality. That's the only reason why that
• 31:57
  Speaker 5: was ruled admissible. And they never said anything about sexual abuse.
• 32:02
  Speaker 5: They never said a word. So you're talking to a shrink.
• 32:04
  Speaker 5: Like when we see our counselor about my Megyn Kelly problem,
• 32:07
  Speaker 5: we will have confidentiality when we go to our couples
• 32:10
  Speaker 5: counseling on that. And we can– everybody's been in therapy
• 32:15
  Speaker 5: at one point or another and you have confidentiality. And
• 32:18
  Speaker 5: you talk about murdering your parents and they told him
• 32:21
  Speaker 5: the reason why they killed their mom was it was
• 32:23
  Speaker 5: a mercy killing. because the dad was cheating. There was
• 32:26
  Speaker 5: nothing about sexual abuse until we got a legal defense.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: And Leslie Abramson- So wait, hold on, I have a question.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: Because I remember thinking maybe when, so they, according to
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: what I recall, they had to go see this therapist
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: as part of this to get out of the fact
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: that they were robbing homes in Calabasas.
• 32:43
  Speaker 5: Eric was. And then he began talking about the case
• 32:45
  Speaker 5: and then Lyle began seeing him. And again- And then.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: Also did the dad find this shady person- and also
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: tell the boys, don't share any, you have to go
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: do this so you don't go to juvenile hall. But
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: in doing it, you better not say anything about what
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: goes on in our house. So maybe they didn't share
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: it prior.
• 33:05
  Speaker 5: Right, and the source of that was 100% the same
• 33:08
  Speaker 5: guys who killed their mom. She survived somehow this volley
• 33:13
  Speaker 5: of 12 gauge rounds. And this has conclusively been proven.
• 33:16
  Speaker 5: Lyle went out to the car, reloaded the shotgun and
• 33:20
  Speaker 5: put the shotgun against his mom's face and blew off
• 33:22
  Speaker 5: her mom's face. Having been to shotgun murders, I can
• 33:25
  Speaker 5: tell you, like, the visceral brutality of that act, you
• 33:29
  Speaker 5: better have a pretty good frigging reason to kill your mom,
• 33:32
  Speaker 5: as in something that mom did. And another thing is, remember, Lyle,
• 33:38
  Speaker 5: after the first trial and it hung, Lyle picked up
• 33:40
  Speaker 5: a court groupie who began visiting him in jail who
• 33:43
  Speaker 5: tape recorded a series of conversations where he was bragging
• 33:47
  Speaker 5: about how effectively he lied on the stand in the
• 33:50
  Speaker 5: first trial. So not only did they lie to the cops,
• 33:52
  Speaker 5: and apparently their therapist, if you believe their story, then
• 33:56
  Speaker 5: they go to court. Eric got caught in one of
• 33:59
  Speaker 5: the biggest cross-examinations. The prosecutor's guy named Lester Kuriyama who
• 34:04
  Speaker 5: caught him in a flat-out lie about the shotguns, like
• 34:07
  Speaker 5: demonstrable falsehood on the stand. So he lied to the jury.
• 34:11
  Speaker 5: He lied to the judge. They lied to literally everybody.
• 34:14
  Speaker 5: And here we are, and Kim Kardashian thinks they should
• 34:16
  Speaker 5: get out. And here's my biggest problem with this. When
• 34:20
  Speaker 5: we start out, we watch these shows, and I dedicate
• 34:23
  Speaker 5: my professional life to fighting and advocating on behalf of
• 34:25
  Speaker 5: victims of sexual abuse. It's been my, from my junior
• 34:29
  Speaker 5: law clerk summer to my private practice where I represent
• 34:32
  Speaker 5: victims pro bono in sex cases. It has been my
• 34:36
  Speaker 5: entire professional career. When you, in the state of California,
• 34:41
  Speaker 5: there's a huge movement here to eliminate LWOP, or Life
• 34:44
  Speaker 5: Without Possibility of Parole, as a sentence. The three groups
• 34:47
  Speaker 5: that serve LWOP are Rapists, child molesters and murderers. Like
• 34:52
  Speaker 5: those are the people serving life sentences in the state
• 34:55
  Speaker 5: of California are overwhelmingly those three.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: Those crimes.
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 34:58
  Speaker 5: And this has become the poster case essentially for the
• 35:01
  Speaker 5: elimination of life without possibility of parole, which is what
• 35:03
  Speaker 5: they were sentenced to, which is the sentence if you
• 35:06
  Speaker 5: kill somebody for money.
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 35:07
  Speaker 5: So if this goes through and if they are resentenced,
• 35:11
  Speaker 5: I have I think that it's what's going to happen next.
• 35:15
  Speaker 5: Every single one of these people in California state prison
• 35:18
  Speaker 5: is going to line up for their resentencing. And if
• 35:21
  Speaker 5: this is successful, the people that will benefit most aren't
• 35:24
  Speaker 5: even Lyle and Eric because it won't end with them.
• 35:27
  Speaker 5: It's called precedent, stare decisis. Our entire legal system is
• 35:30
  Speaker 5: based on what other judges do on similar cases or
• 35:33
  Speaker 5: on cases with similar charges. And the people that are
• 35:36
  Speaker 5: going to benefit most on this are child molesters and rapists.
• 35:39
  Speaker 5: And if they start getting out, these people that are
• 35:41
  Speaker 5: motivated by wanting to advocate on behalf of purported victims
• 35:46
  Speaker 5: of sexual abuse— will wind up creating more victims of
• 35:50
  Speaker 5: sexual abuse because the last people we want out, trust me,
• 35:54
  Speaker 5: people in the state of California who are in there
• 35:55
  Speaker 5: doing LWOP are the worst human beings on the planet.
• 36:00
  Speaker 5: And if we make it easier for them to get out,
• 36:03
  Speaker 5: it's like, I mean, I love my state. I grew
• 36:07
  Speaker 5: up here like you did. It's like we just keep
• 36:10
  Speaker 5: shooting ourself in the public safety foot over and over
• 36:12
  Speaker 5: and over again. And so we start out with empathy
• 36:15
  Speaker 5: because we see a documentary or a purported documentary or
• 36:18
  Speaker 5: a show on Netflix and we see the way it's portrayed,
• 36:22
  Speaker 5: there's so much that is left out of that. Like
• 36:24
  Speaker 5: we would need another, we'd need two hours to go
• 36:26
  Speaker 5: through what they did not include that were actual facts.
• 36:30
  Speaker 5: Like Jose Menendez was talking about writing them out of
• 36:32
  Speaker 5: the will. That happened beforehand.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 36:35
  Speaker 5: It's well documented. And that's what we call, you know,
• 36:38
  Speaker 5: a clue. Like if they think they're about to lose
• 36:40
  Speaker 5: all the money regarding the timing of this, like So
• 36:43
  Speaker 5: when you talk to DAs in the L.A. DA's office,
• 36:46
  Speaker 5: the real pros, like a buddy of mine, Jeff Lewin,
• 36:49
  Speaker 5: or John Lewin, his brother, who's a very well-known, he's
• 36:52
  Speaker 5: a guy that prosecuted Robert Durst in the Jinx. Or
• 36:57
  Speaker 5: my co-counsel on Rodney Alcala, Gina Sotrano, her whole career
• 37:01
  Speaker 5: is parallel to mine. It's all sexual abuse. The idea
• 37:05
  Speaker 5: that these two guys might get out because of a
• 37:08
  Speaker 5: friggin' Netflix story and everybody watches this and They don't
• 37:11
  Speaker 5: read the transcripts. None of your viewers probably, and this
• 37:14
  Speaker 5: is not a criticism, but who reads the Ninth Circuit opinion?
• 37:18
  Speaker 5: Unless you're a lawyer. I've read it and it is
• 37:20
  Speaker 5: probably the most accurate takedown of these legal concepts with
• 37:26
  Speaker 5: these guys who keep getting caught and lie after lie
• 37:29
  Speaker 5: after lie and now we believe them all of a sudden?
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: Let me ask you this because the fascination to me
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: is that they're brothers with just a couple years in
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: between and there's something beautiful about the fact that they
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: got to finally be in the same prison. I remember
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: feeling like, I know they're murderers, but, and then I
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: also understood why they were separated back then because they,
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: you know, my sister who's a criminal defense attorney is like,
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: you put two sociopaths together and they're multiple times more dangerous.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: There's something. And so now you have, you know, murdering
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: brothers who are also most likely abused in a fucked
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: up home. And one has more power over the other,
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: the older. Like, do you feel that Lyle is and
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: was more dangerous than Eric? And do you think he
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: at all, like, if this was just, if Eric had
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: been an only child and even suffered this abuse, would
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: he have ever gotten to this place of killing his parents?
• 38:28
  Speaker 5: Well, number one.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: Just hypothetically.
• 38:29
  Speaker 5: Yeah. So we're talking about big brother, little brother. Yeah.
• 38:31
  Speaker 5: So there's that dynamic that I think is very much
• 38:34
  Speaker 5: in play here. But I don't know.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 38:36
  Speaker 5: It certainly seemed that way to me. Eric is the
• 38:38
  Speaker 5: one that is basically giving this tearful thing to Oziel.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 38:42
  Speaker 5: And then Lyle comes in. Like, Oziel thinks Lyle's going
• 38:46
  Speaker 5: to kill him.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: The counselor.
• 38:47
  Speaker 5: He's the counselor.
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 38:48
  Speaker 5: Right? And then so we learn about all this because
• 38:51
  Speaker 5: of what he perceives as a danger. Then who's involved?
• 38:55
  Speaker 5: And Lyle is the one that actually went hands-on and
• 38:58
  Speaker 5: murdered his mother. Yeah. Right? And in the most gruesome way,
• 39:02
  Speaker 5: Ken answers.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: He's the one who came back.
• 39:04
  Speaker 5: He's the one that loaded Rosalind. A Mossberg 12-gauge shotgun
• 39:07
  Speaker 5: and blew his mom's face off, literally. Somehow she'd survived
• 39:10
  Speaker 5: the initial thing. By the way, her brother is totally
• 39:13
  Speaker 5: opposed to them being released, her brother Milton. So like
• 39:15
  Speaker 5: when they talk about the family, the family.
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: But then isn't his sister, isn't her sister also.
• 39:21
  Speaker 5: Wanting them out?
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: She wants them out, yeah.
• 39:23
  Speaker 5: Right, and like on an emotional level, we can sort
• 39:25
  Speaker 5: of understand Yeah. But at the same time, he's also
• 39:29
  Speaker 5: entitled to– he's considered a victim and he's entitled under
• 39:32
  Speaker 5: California Constitution. It's Article 1, Section 28 of the California Constitution.
• 39:36
  Speaker 5: It's known as finality in sentencing because he is a
• 39:39
  Speaker 5: victim of violent crime, the brother. So it's like– and
• 39:42
  Speaker 5: also going back to Gascon, there's two legal pathways here.
• 39:46
  Speaker 5: One is just a motion to resentence. The other is
• 39:47
  Speaker 5: what's known as a habeas proceeding. Where it's like, hey,
• 39:51
  Speaker 5: we got new evidence, which is the letter and this
• 39:53
  Speaker 5: thing from this Menudo guy.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: The letter from his cousin that it looks like the
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: letter was written by Eric to the cousin a couple
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: years before and it was stating the abuse.
• 40:05
  Speaker 5: It was supposedly about six months before.
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 40:08
  Speaker 5: It's undated. It's vague. He comes in. You can't understand
• 40:13
  Speaker 5: how much I hate him. It's vague. There is no date.
• 40:15
  Speaker 5: That cousin has now died. But here's my problem with
• 40:17
  Speaker 5: the letter.
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: But also someone could argue– that if this was sent
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: six months prior, that the pre-planning of the murder, because
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: they're going to be cut out of the will, we're
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: dropping seeds that maybe we were abused. You could argue
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: that too, right?
• 40:33
  Speaker 5: Every murder that I've done where it's a murder for
• 40:36
  Speaker 5: financial gain, there's fake evidence put in front of it.
• 40:38
  Speaker 5: Not saying that necessarily is, but here's another problem that
• 40:40
  Speaker 5: I've got with that, is that this was the biggest
• 40:43
  Speaker 5: trial in the world. This was the case right back then.
• 40:47
  Speaker 5: And he has one of the best defense lawyers, and
• 40:50
  Speaker 5: they've got virtually unlimited funding for their defense because the
• 40:53
  Speaker 5: family is wealthy. Did Eric forget he wrote the letter? Like,
• 40:56
  Speaker 5: they have subpoena power. They've got the cousin who actually
• 40:59
  Speaker 5: testified in the first trial.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: So you're saying why didn't Eric bring it up back then?
• 41:02
  Speaker 5: How come we didn't see it then? Yeah.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: And why do you think that? Why would that?
• 41:06
  Speaker 5: Well, I've got a friend in the DA's office who
• 41:08
  Speaker 5: will remain nameless who is convinced that the letter is
• 41:10
  Speaker 5: complete BS. It's fake. He thinks it's fake. It came out.
• 41:14
  Speaker 5: It came. It was delivered by a family member. who
• 41:17
  Speaker 5: has always advocated for their release. And who knows? And
• 41:21
  Speaker 5: that's what's known as foundation. Like somebody could say, I
• 41:24
  Speaker 5: found it in my, in my son or my cousin's
• 41:26
  Speaker 5: stuff as I was going through it after he died.
• 41:28
  Speaker 5: That's probably enough foundation to get it in, but that
• 41:31
  Speaker 5: doesn't like, there's no, their allegations of sexual abuse were
• 41:36
  Speaker 5: never really corroborated by anybody except for them and each other.
• 41:41
  Speaker 5: And that's it. And, and, when you, I did sex
• 41:44
  Speaker 5: crimes for four years before I went into homicide. Okay.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: Wait, finish your thought, but then I want to ask
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: you a question about that. Go ahead.
• 41:51
  Speaker 5: Yeah. So, I mean, look, if you've got, if this
• 41:53
  Speaker 5: is the smoking gun that everybody wants it to be now, right?
• 41:56
  Speaker 5: If this is Gascon, who sat on the habeas petition
• 41:59
  Speaker 5: for 18 months, by the way, like that sat on
• 42:01
  Speaker 5: his desk for a year and a half. So there's
• 42:02
  Speaker 5: a lot of people in that office who think, yes,
• 42:04
  Speaker 5: he waited until the last minute because he was about
• 42:07
  Speaker 5: to lose an election by 30 points. So he wanted to,
• 42:11
  Speaker 5: this was a Hail Mary. People think that I don't
• 42:13
  Speaker 5: know what he's thinking on that. But when it comes
• 42:16
  Speaker 5: to that letter, like if it is that important, Eric
• 42:22
  Speaker 5: wrote it. Eric knew about it. He's got one of
• 42:25
  Speaker 5: the finest defense lawyers. He's got a cooperative person who
• 42:28
  Speaker 5: received it. Why are we hearing about it 35 years later?
• 42:31
  Speaker 5: Why didn't we know about it then if it's so important?
• 42:34
  Speaker 5: If that was the smoking gun that corroborated the sexual abuse,
• 42:36
  Speaker 5: and it is vague. He doesn't say my dad is
• 42:38
  Speaker 5: molesting me. He keeps coming in here. You have no
• 42:40
  Speaker 5: idea how bad it is. could be interpreted that way.
• 42:43
  Speaker 5: Maybe that's exactly what was happening. But I'll tell you
• 42:47
  Speaker 5: who isn't in the letter. My mom is sexually abusing me,
• 42:49
  Speaker 5: or my mom is holding me down as my dad
• 42:51
  Speaker 5: is doing it, or my mom has, like, there's nothing
• 42:53
  Speaker 5: about mom in there at all. And if you kill
• 42:56
  Speaker 5: one person for financial gain, if you give them a
• 42:59
  Speaker 5: freebie murder on dad, you cannot kill your mom if
• 43:03
  Speaker 5: financial gain is the motive. If it's 10%, 20%, 1%,
• 43:08
  Speaker 5: If you kill your mom with a Mossberg shotgun, and
• 43:11
  Speaker 5: one of the very first things they did after as
• 43:13
  Speaker 5: they began this exorbitant spending spree with Porsches and Rolexes
• 43:17
  Speaker 5: and 24-hour security and, you know, is they got a
• 43:22
  Speaker 5: locksmith to get into the safe because based on the
• 43:25
  Speaker 5: prosecution to get into the will because they thought he
• 43:28
  Speaker 5: might have actually written them out of the will and
• 43:31
  Speaker 5: they wanted to get that before anybody else did. That
• 43:34
  Speaker 5: is totally consistent with with the idea that they murdered
• 43:38
  Speaker 5: their dad before he had a chance to do it
• 43:40
  Speaker 5: because there was evidence of that that was presented multiple times.
• 43:43
  Speaker 5: I wish David Cohen was alive today to come in
• 43:46
  Speaker 5: and address this because that guy- Who was that, the prosecutor?
• 43:48
  Speaker 5: He was the prosecutor in the second trial, the one
• 43:50
  Speaker 5: that actually convicted them. I mean, I knew him. I
• 43:53
  Speaker 5: had cases with him. That guy was the real deal.
• 43:57
  Speaker 5: He's everything that you would want as far as a
• 43:59
  Speaker 5: professional prosecutor who's fair and listens and considers all the
• 44:04
  Speaker 5: evidence like, That was that guy, and he passed away
• 44:08
  Speaker 5: seven or eight years ago now. And I just wish
• 44:11
  Speaker 5: he was here to address it.
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: Well, I will– one thing, and then I want to
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: ask you this. I will say Lyle cheated on his
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: first wife by having other people came in, Anna Menendez.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: Then he had another wife for like 25 years, and
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: it's just been revealed that he has been cheating on
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: her with this other– young. I think she's German. She's blonde.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: She's in her twenties. She's been visiting him. They have
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: photos together. So now they're going through a divorce. Do
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: you imagine being the woman that visited him for like
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: 30 years? And you're like talking to your sister-in-law, who's
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: also married to Eric for 30 years, being like, we're
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: going to get them out for Christmas only to find
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: out that he is seeing like a blonde 24 year old.
• 44:55
  Speaker 5: Yeah, well.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: So, I mean, I know cheaters don't mean murderers, but,
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: you know, come on, not a great character.
• 45:02
  Speaker 5: This is, like, this is not... These aren't nice guys,
• 45:08
  Speaker 5: you know? Like, they killed their friggin' mom, guys. Like,
• 45:12
  Speaker 5: have we forgotten? Kitty Menendez was crawling away. They blew...
• 45:15
  Speaker 5: Lyle Menendez blew his mom's face off with a shotgun.
• 45:19
  Speaker 5: It's like, that visual alone... You like you better have
• 45:24
  Speaker 5: something better than it was a mercy killing because our
• 45:26
  Speaker 5: dad was cheating on her. Like you can't you know,
• 45:29
  Speaker 5: so people see that they see the cute kid, this
• 45:31
  Speaker 5: cute brothers. And like we think victims of sexual abuse. And,
• 45:35
  Speaker 5: you know, look, I did four years in sexual assault.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: Let me ask you this as a prosecutor of it.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: Have you ever in your career been prosecuting a case
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: and there is something that you're like, oh, fuck the victim?
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: victim is lying. Maybe it didn't happen. And how do
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: you handle that?
• 45:57
  Speaker 5: So not in the middle of trial, but absolutely. Especially
• 46:02
  Speaker 5: in murders, because when you catch the guy, typically you
• 46:05
  Speaker 5: catch the guy pretty quickly, or the woman. You catch
• 46:07
  Speaker 5: them pretty quickly, and then the investigation really begins. That's
• 46:10
  Speaker 5: when you send in the computers. Like I had one,
• 46:13
  Speaker 5: I had a case out of Newport. Very, very wealthy family.
• 46:18
  Speaker 5: And this guy was, they were in... having a divorce
• 46:22
  Speaker 5: and we, there's so much cash. There are Newport coast
• 46:25
  Speaker 5: or neighbors of Kobe, Kobe Bryant. And this guy, um,
• 46:30
  Speaker 5: I filed the special search because it really looked like
• 46:32
  Speaker 5: they were arguing about money, that that was a part
• 46:34
  Speaker 5: of it. And it only has to be, again, it
• 46:35
  Speaker 5: only has to be a part of the motive. And
• 46:37
  Speaker 5: he strangled his wife in the bathtub and he wound
• 46:39
  Speaker 5: up like dumping her body in San Diego. This crazy, crazy,
• 46:43
  Speaker 5: super rich guy. And, um, and we wind up, we,
• 46:48
  Speaker 5: And that's when– like I would go to the autopsies.
• 46:50
  Speaker 5: Like I remember standing watching this autopsy and she had
• 46:53
  Speaker 5: been– it was all the classic signs of strangulation. He
• 46:57
  Speaker 5: came up with a story about a painter at the
• 46:58
  Speaker 5: house murdering her and putting her in a car. It
• 47:00
  Speaker 5: was absolutely preposterous. So I charge him with that and
• 47:04
  Speaker 5: he can't get out because it's a no-bail hold on
• 47:07
  Speaker 5: a special circuit of murder for a financial gain. And
• 47:11
  Speaker 5: then we get the computers back and it turns out
• 47:13
  Speaker 5: what this guy was doing, frigging weenie that he is,
• 47:16
  Speaker 5: He was having sex with hookers. I'm sorry, sex workers,
• 47:20
  Speaker 5: I believe is the correct term. Sex workers without a
• 47:23
  Speaker 5: condom and bringing home STDs for his mom. I mean,
• 47:26
  Speaker 5: for his wife, for the mom of these kids, because
• 47:29
  Speaker 5: they had dead three boys. So yeah, he's infecting his wife.
• 47:33
  Speaker 5: That's what they were arguing about. And as the investigation
• 47:35
  Speaker 5: goes on, turns out her family's got a ton of money.
• 47:37
  Speaker 5: His family's got a ton of money. It was 0%
• 47:40
  Speaker 5: about money. Now I've got a very wealthy guy And
• 47:44
  Speaker 5: I have an ethical obligation. And to answer the question,
• 47:47
  Speaker 5: you must dismiss it or strike that enhancement immediately. You
• 47:50
  Speaker 5: do not stop, go. As soon as you entertain a
• 47:52
  Speaker 5: subjective doubt as to somebody's guilt or the efficacy of
• 47:56
  Speaker 5: any sort of charge or enhancement, your ethical obligation is
• 47:59
  Speaker 5: to immediately dismiss that. A lot of people don't know that.
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: To dismiss that it was not. So then you have
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: to say this was not money motivated.
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: This was like truly a crime of passion.
• 48:09
  Speaker 5: I had to strike the enhancement. Which allowed that guy
• 48:14
  Speaker 5: to make bail, which sucked because then he fled to Mexico.
• 48:18
  Speaker 5: He's on the lam and he killed somebody in Mexico.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: Who?
• 48:21
  Speaker 5: Like some other girl? He killed some poor– he was
• 48:26
  Speaker 5: driving super aggressively. He had two Mexican sisters that were
• 48:30
  Speaker 5: in his car that came from a nice family, like
• 48:34
  Speaker 5: nice people. He killed one. He crashed and he killed
• 48:37
  Speaker 5: one and permanently disabled the other.
• 48:39
  Speaker 2: In the car accident.
• 48:40
  Speaker 5: In the car accident. Absolutely horrific. And he was– so
• 48:43
  Speaker 5: this guy was just– Is.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: That how then you guys found him? From the car accident?
• 48:47
  Speaker 5: We had great work from the U.S. Marshal's office and
• 48:49
  Speaker 5: a bunch of like actual heroes behind the scenes. And
• 48:51
  Speaker 5: Newport Peach, a guy named Court Depwig, who was head
• 48:54
  Speaker 5: of the homicide unit down there, who– detective, sergeant, like studs.
• 48:58
  Speaker 5: So what happened to him? They brought him back, finally
• 49:01
  Speaker 5: prosecuted him up here in– well, in Orange County. And
• 49:05
  Speaker 5: he was convicted of murder and he got a life sentence.
• 49:07
  Speaker 5: He'll get a parole hearing too soon because that's, it
• 49:10
  Speaker 5: turns out being a second degree murder. But like, there's no,
• 49:13
  Speaker 5: like that guy should never get out. You know, he
• 49:15
  Speaker 5: shouldn't get out. He, you know, like, but but, but
• 49:18
  Speaker 5: I had to dump it.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: It was second degree because it wasn't planned. It was
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: an argument that went to murder. It wasn't, I'm coming
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: home tonight. She's here. I bought the guns three days ago.
• 49:28
  Speaker 5: It's no, it was nowhere near as bad as, and
• 49:30
  Speaker 5: then another one with a guy who, um, he was a, uh,
• 49:33
  Speaker 5: he was a finance manager, manager at a car dealership
• 49:35
  Speaker 5: and he had this big history of domestic violence. And he's, um,
• 49:39
  Speaker 5: He called 911. She already had rigor. His fiance's beautiful
• 49:43
  Speaker 5: young woman and rigor is rigor mortis. So she'd been
• 49:47
  Speaker 5: dead for a while. She'd clearly been choked. She's got
• 49:50
  Speaker 5: particular hemorrhaging in her eyes, which are like all the
• 49:52
  Speaker 5: classic signs. She's got the finger marks on her neck,
• 49:55
  Speaker 5: the whole deal. And and cause of death was asphyxia.
• 50:00
  Speaker 5: So that looks like he choked on. He's been arrested
• 50:03
  Speaker 5: multiple times for doing that to previous wives, girlfriends, whatever.
• 50:07
  Speaker 5: And then. Three weeks, four weeks later, I get the
• 50:10
  Speaker 5: tox results, and it turns out they had a huge fight.
• 50:13
  Speaker 5: He was a choker. He choked her out, and she
• 50:15
  Speaker 5: went in and took about 150 sleeping pills. So when
• 50:19
  Speaker 5: we get that back, it's like, I've got a huge
• 50:21
  Speaker 5: causation problem. Even though, like, on a moral level, he
• 50:24
  Speaker 5: basically killed her, but she suicided. So that's another one
• 50:28
  Speaker 5: I had to dismiss right away. So, yes.
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: So then he could only get, so was he convicted
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: of anything?
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: Yes. Just abuse.
• 50:33
  Speaker 5: No, no, no.
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: But just abuse, but not murder.
• 50:35
  Speaker 5: I then gave that to a guy who went to, Actually,
• 50:38
  Speaker 5: the guy I was so good at, he wound up
• 50:39
  Speaker 5: becoming my boss in Homicide. His name is Brahim Betai.
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: But you've never had like a female try to say
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: I was sexually assaulted by somebody and you are totally convinced.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: And then as you do the interviews and stuff, you're like,
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: you know what? There isn't enough here. Or even in
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: your brain, you're like, this girl's lying. Has that ever happened? Yeah.
• 51:00
  Speaker 5: We have. Tons of those. Tons, but we don't file those.
• 51:04
  Speaker 5: When you look at those, and it's sexual assault, you're
• 51:08
  Speaker 5: just reviewing sex cases all the time. So when you
• 51:12
  Speaker 5: have one of those, I'll tell you the common one,
• 51:13
  Speaker 5: and this is sad, in custody disputes, when you've got
• 51:16
  Speaker 5: a little girl or a little boy, and the complaint comes,
• 51:18
  Speaker 5: and you look, and it's almost like a script. It's like,
• 51:22
  Speaker 5: custody dispute? Okay. Mom reported. No corroboration. You see that.
• 51:28
  Speaker 5: You actually see that a lot.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: Or saying that the dad that she's divorcing, she believes,
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: is sexually assaulting her or a child.
• 51:36
  Speaker 5: Yes. You see a lot of that.
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: And then she kind of coaches the child.
• 51:40
  Speaker 5: Right. And a good detective spot those a mile away.
• 51:42
  Speaker 5: There was a guy named.
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: That, I think, has to be, like, the cruelest thing
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: that someone can do.
• 51:49
  Speaker 5: Well, people go crazy when— in divorces, people can go crazy.
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 51:52
  Speaker 5: It's the ultimate— And when they're fighting over their kids—
• 51:55
  Speaker 5: There is no limit of what they'll do. There's no
• 51:57
  Speaker 5: lie they won't tell.
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 51:58
  Speaker 5: You know, and sometimes it turns out to be absolutely true.
• 52:01
  Speaker 5: But those who do falsely report are totally unfair to
• 52:04
  Speaker 5: the people that are actually suffering.
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 52:07
  Speaker 5: Because it comes in with such skepticism when, you know,
• 52:12
  Speaker 5: when it comes in with five fake ones and there's
• 52:15
  Speaker 5: a real one in there. So you try very hard
• 52:19
  Speaker 5: to figure those out before you file. You know, and
• 52:21
  Speaker 5: it's critically important. That's one of the hardest parts of
• 52:24
  Speaker 5: the job are when you or the opposite when you
• 52:26
  Speaker 5: have somebody that you absolutely believe was being abused, especially
• 52:29
  Speaker 5: with little kids, and you just don't have any points
• 52:31
  Speaker 5: of corroboration and you believe the kid. And California law
• 52:35
  Speaker 5: says you can proceed on those, but the only thing
• 52:37
  Speaker 5: worse than some poor kid getting molested is some poor
• 52:40
  Speaker 5: kid getting rejected by a jury after they come in
• 52:42
  Speaker 5: and testify. So those are refusing the ones that you
• 52:45
  Speaker 5: can't corroborate. It's emotionally taxing, but it's still a critical
• 52:50
  Speaker 5: part of the job because at the end of the day,
• 52:52
  Speaker 5: people are presumed innocent and it's a real thing. And,
• 52:54
  Speaker 5: you know, you got to be, you have to be,
• 52:57
  Speaker 5: you need smart detectives, smart prosecutors, smart judges, and ultimately
• 53:01
  Speaker 5: a good jury, you know, and following California law, they get,
• 53:05
  Speaker 5: they make the right call about 99% of the time,
• 53:07
  Speaker 5: you know, in those, the jury will come to the
• 53:10
  Speaker 5: right decision when the case gets that far. But it,
• 53:12
  Speaker 5: you know, but you gotta be, you gotta be very
• 53:14
  Speaker 5: careful as a DA on any case.
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: So now let's talk about a case that you did
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: prosecute back in 2019. um, about a man who was, uh,
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: was he left for dead or why don't you tell
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: the story? This is your story. This is your case.
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: So this is reading a little bit on it. Cause
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: I knew you were going to tell me about it.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, I have so many questions. So let's
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: just tell the juicy.
• 53:37
  Speaker 5: This is, yeah, this is a wild one. So this
• 53:39
  Speaker 5: is when it'd be my last trial as a DA.
• 53:41
  Speaker 5: So this is a, I got a three part Hulu
• 53:44
  Speaker 5: docuseries coming out in February.
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: Oh, okay.
• 53:46
  Speaker 5: Yeah. Um, and, It is a– this is the Hussein
• 53:51
  Speaker 5: Nayiri case. So this is a guy who is– California,
• 53:55
  Speaker 5: when we passed that medical marijuana thing back in the 90s, right?
• 53:59
  Speaker 5: I don't think it.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: Was in the 90s. Oh, the medical was 90s and
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: then 2000– around like 2008, then it's like.
• 54:06
  Speaker 5: Just legal.
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right. Okay.
• 54:08
  Speaker 5: So here's the trick that nobody knows. That F of
• 54:10
  Speaker 5: the FDIC that we see on the front of every
• 54:12
  Speaker 5: bank we go to stands for federal, okay? So marijuana cultivation, sales, use,
• 54:18
  Speaker 5: all that is straight up legal. It's not decriminalized. It's
• 54:21
  Speaker 5: legal in the state of California. However, it's still a
• 54:26
  Speaker 5: federal crime. So what that means is the banks cannot
• 54:30
  Speaker 5: do business with marijuana dispensaries or marijuana shops. So what
• 54:34
  Speaker 5: that means is- A lot of cash. There's a lot
• 54:37
  Speaker 5: of cash. And there's cash. There's a big pile of
• 54:39
  Speaker 5: cash waiting in those businesses for the successful businesses. At
• 54:42
  Speaker 5: the end of every workday, there's a pile of money.
• 54:45
  Speaker 5: And the people in the marijuana world, it's like the
• 54:48
  Speaker 5: Wild West right now. Still. Still. And there haven't been
• 54:52
  Speaker 5: a lot of really good solutions to this. And look,
• 54:57
  Speaker 5: they're one of the biggest investing groups in marijuana businesses
• 55:04
  Speaker 5: and marijuana in the state of California. A lot of
• 55:06
  Speaker 5: detectives believe are Mexican drug cartels. So this is not–
• 55:10
  Speaker 5: it is a very complex dynamic thing to this day.
• 55:14
  Speaker 5: But the bad guys, so marijuana for decades was just
• 55:17
  Speaker 5: ruled by criminals, like that whole world. To grow it,
• 55:20
  Speaker 5: you're a criminal. To sell it, you're a criminal. Like
• 55:22
  Speaker 5: even to use it for a long time, you're committing crimes.
• 55:25
  Speaker 5: So when they made it legal, a lot of legitimate
• 55:28
  Speaker 5: business people saw the opportunity there and they came in
• 55:31
  Speaker 5: with doing these hydroponic grows. And what it did is
• 55:34
  Speaker 5: it drove the margins down and you get business people
• 55:36
  Speaker 5: that come in that are like honoring contracts and paying
• 55:39
  Speaker 5: people a fair amount and like– Shocking, like they're actually
• 55:43
  Speaker 5: engaging in fair business practices because they're business people. And
• 55:46
  Speaker 5: for the criminal element, their margins used to be huge.
• 55:50
  Speaker 5: And then they get smaller and smaller and smaller, and
• 55:53
  Speaker 5: they know who's doing well. And, you know, like the
• 55:57
  Speaker 5: marijuana world, there are unicorn-riding hippies who grow it and
• 56:00
  Speaker 5: sell it, and that's always been sort of part of it.
• 56:03
  Speaker 5: But the truth is a lot of the people in
• 56:06
  Speaker 5: that business, especially before it went legal, were hardened people.
• 56:10
  Speaker 5: gnarly criminals who committed murders and would rip each other off.
• 56:15
  Speaker 5: And I mean, one of the most vicious murders I
• 56:16
  Speaker 5: had was a guy who got murdered in, uh, Irvine
• 56:20
  Speaker 5: over a $ 7, 000 marijuana debt. And they, they killed him
• 56:24
  Speaker 5: with a meat cleaver and drove him up to freaking, um,
• 56:28
  Speaker 5: Humboldt and buried him in a place called Stinky Beach.
• 56:31
  Speaker 5: I mean, it's just awful. 22 years old. A family
• 56:34
  Speaker 5: who loved him.
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: So let's get into this one. So this guy had
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: his own dispensary.
• 56:37
  Speaker 5: He has his own dispensary. And he's very successful because
• 56:40
  Speaker 5: he's one of those business guys. Didn't even use marijuana himself.
• 56:43
  Speaker 5: But he's running a business.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: And it's successful.
• 56:47
  Speaker 5: He gets kidnapped in the middle of the night. And
• 56:49
  Speaker 5: these guys pop out of nowhere in his apartment. And
• 56:53
  Speaker 5: he lives in Newport. He's sharing this townhome with another
• 56:55
  Speaker 5: guy whose girlfriend was over. So they both wind up
• 56:59
  Speaker 5: getting kidnapped. But they tie her up. They throw her
• 57:02
  Speaker 5: in a van. But with him, they wake him up
• 57:05
  Speaker 5: by beating him with a 12-gauge shotgun. So in the
• 57:08
  Speaker 5: face with the barrel. And they tie him up. They
• 57:12
  Speaker 5: take him down out of the stairs face down by
• 57:15
  Speaker 5: the feet. So his face bumps on every stair like
• 57:18
  Speaker 5: immediately ultra-violent, super heavy. And they throw him in this van.
• 57:24
  Speaker 5: And they torture him all the way out. into the desert.
• 57:28
  Speaker 5: And they had a blowtorch on them. They've got like...
• 57:31
  Speaker 5: And they get out there and the whole time they're
• 57:33
  Speaker 5: demanding the million bucks, wherever that comes from. And they...
• 57:39
  Speaker 5: He keeps telling them the money's in the safe in
• 57:42
  Speaker 5: the business. And they drive them out into the middle
• 57:44
  Speaker 5: of the Mojave Desert, in the middle of nowhere.
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: What were they hoping that he would say, though? Like,
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: I also don't get.
• 57:50
  Speaker 5: They ultimately, we learned, they thought that he had buried
• 57:53
  Speaker 5: money in the desert.
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: Did some other... criminal tell them that? How did they
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: get that idea?
• 57:58
  Speaker 5: Eventually we learned that the mastermind in this had put
• 58:03
  Speaker 5: trackers on his car and he'd gone out into the
• 58:05
  Speaker 5: desert on a meaningless real estate trip with some friend
• 58:08
  Speaker 5: of his and they drove around for a while in
• 58:10
  Speaker 5: this area and this guy who puts together this super
• 58:13
  Speaker 5: elaborate plan over months gets it in his head. He
• 58:17
  Speaker 5: must be burying money in the desert. So they drive
• 58:20
  Speaker 5: him to those GPS coordinates because he had those and
• 58:24
  Speaker 5: that's where they believe the money was. There's so many
• 58:26
  Speaker 5: problems with the conclusion, but that's what they believed. So
• 58:30
  Speaker 5: it's three men in this van. He's been tortured the
• 58:33
  Speaker 5: entire way out. And he's like, for the last time,
• 58:35
  Speaker 5: the money's in the safe. Let's go there. I'll give
• 58:38
  Speaker 5: you every penny of it. And they say, fuck you.
• 58:41
  Speaker 5: And they cut off his penis.
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: While he's alive?
• 58:43
  Speaker 5: While he's alive.
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: And does he live?
• 58:46
  Speaker 5: And he lives. And they take it with them, which
• 58:50
  Speaker 5: is another thing. The penis? They don't just cut it off.
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: So there's no way he could. it can be attached
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: or anything.
• 58:56
  Speaker 5: There is. And you know, it's funny. I mean, it's,
• 58:59
  Speaker 5: this is every woman that, that I've talked to about
• 59:02
  Speaker 5: this case has, it's like, can't they, isn't there something
• 59:04
  Speaker 5: they can do?
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: And it's, well, just because– forget about sex. But like
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: you pee. That just means you're going to be– have
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: some attachment down there for the rest of your life.
• 59:14
  Speaker 5: It's like losing an eye.
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 59:16
  Speaker 5: The poor guy is going to have no nerves. And
• 59:17
  Speaker 5: they cut it off at the base. It's absolutely horrific.
• 59:20
  Speaker 5: But they– so basically what happens is they wind up
• 59:23
  Speaker 5: in the desert. They cut it off. They drive off
• 59:25
  Speaker 5: into the night. He is in shock. And the girlfriend
• 59:29
  Speaker 5: who wasn't supposed to be there.
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: So they leave him in the desert, though.
• 59:31
  Speaker 5: They leave him in the middle of the desert, bound.
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 59:33
  Speaker 5: Tied up, bound. There's almost no way that this guy
• 59:36
  Speaker 5: should have lived.
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 59:38
  Speaker 5: So the girlfriend of his roommate, she manages to– they
• 59:44
  Speaker 5: throw a knife in the bushes, the knife they used.
• 59:46
  Speaker 5: She gets to the knife, cuts the bindings off her feet,
• 59:50
  Speaker 5: can't get the bindings off her hands, which are behind
• 59:52
  Speaker 5: the back, tries to cut his bindings off, winds up
• 59:54
  Speaker 5: severely cutting his palm.
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: Her own boyfriend.
• 59:56
  Speaker 5: No, no, no. So her boyfriend was out of town.
• 59:59
  Speaker 5: This is the victim, the male victim's roommate's girlfriend.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: Right, but he's in the desert. So what are you
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: talking about? Who's the guy she's trying to cut?
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 5: Sorry. So they kidnapped them together.
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: Oh, she went. She was in the desert too.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 5: She was thrown in the van.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: I thought she was. Oh, sorry, sorry. Okay, continue.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 5: So they drive them both out there. But they took
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 5: her so that she wouldn't be able to call the police.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 5: She wasn't a part of their plan. She wasn't even
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 5: supposed to be in the house. So they take her
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 5: as like an also add on. They leave him with
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 5: like middle of nowhere, middle of the night, bleeding, totally exposed.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 5: And he's been he has been tortured. Also, they they
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 5: pour bleach all over him before they drove away, which
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 5: is forensically significant because bleach destroys DNA. So this is
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 5: something that immediately stands out to detectives as something that
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 5: was thought out.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 5: But she manages to. get the bindings cut off of
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 5: her feet. She tries to free him. She can't. She
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 5: gets the blindfold up just enough that she can see.
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 5: And off in the distance, she sees lights and begins
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 5: running barefoot through the open frigging Mojave Desert. And you
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 5: can't make this up. The very first car she sees
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 5: is an off-duty sheriff's deputy, Deputy Williams, who's on his
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 5: way to work in his patrol car. And he sees
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 5: this woman in her pajamas running, bound, Like duct tape
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 5: and like stuff all over her head, bound behind with
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 5: zip ties behind her back, running across the highway. And
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 5: he stops. And this guy was so good. He takes
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 5: photos right away. So this whole thing is documented with photos.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 5: And then she is able to lead him back to
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 5: our poor victim. And they immediately do a grid search.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 5: And like they take him to the hospital. But everybody
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 5: that– the responding cops, they do what's called a grid
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 5: search where they're looking literally through every inch of the area.
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 5: And they realize that these guys took it with them. So,
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 5: and this is cool. They do a canvas. And we
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 5: have nothing. He has no idea who would do this
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 5: to him, our poor victim. And this is like unbelievably cool, right?
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 5: And they do a canvas around the apartment where the
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 5: kidnapping happened. And a canvas is basically where they just
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 5: knock on the doors of neighbors. And you almost never
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 5: get anything on a canvas. It's like a due diligence
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 5: to say that you did it, that you did everything
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 5: you could. And people want to help. So it's like, yeah,
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 5: I heard somebody screaming down the street, but it might
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 5: have been my neighbor's loud wife or whatever. I did
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 5: hear a noise, but it could have been raccoons in
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 5: the trash can. What you get is you get a
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 5: bunch of red herrings that suck up a lot of resources,
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 5: and you almost never get anything good. And they talk
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 5: to a woman who's one of the neighbors across the
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 5: alley behind the house. And she's like, they knock on
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 5: the door, and she's like, you know, I did see
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 5: something weird. I saw three boys in yellow hard hats,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 5: but the hard hats looked too clean to be real.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 5: And I saw them put a ladder against that house.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 5: but I didn't see two of them come out. And
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 5: they're like, you know, that's like potentially home run of
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 5: home runs. And they're like, please tell us you can
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 5: describe the car they're using. And she's like, well, I
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 5: wrote down the license plate. Will that help? And these,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 5: can I swear?
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 5: These dipshits, these dipshits had a rented van and they
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 5: went to all of these elaborate lengths to hide their
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 5: identity and to put this plan together that went on
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 5: for months. There's this planning. And on this one day,
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 5: One of these guys was a mastermind, really, really smart guy,
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 5: Hussein Nayer, who put the whole thing together. The rest
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 5: of them were basically idiots. And one of these idiots
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 5: used his own truck. So with his license plate, we
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 5: show up at his house. The first thing the cops
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 5: smell is bleach. And then we start finding zip ties
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 5: that match. And they find a blue nitrile glove underneath
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 5: his car seat. And we send everything into the crime lab.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 5: And we get So we arrest him.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: Did you find the penis?
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 5: No, never. So they took it with them, which is like,
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 5: which full circle I did eventually get to ask this
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 5: guy about. But this is a, I almost don't want
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 5: to blow the ending here, but what happens is, so
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 5: we arrest the burnout idiot that drove his own truck
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 5: and we were prosecuting him. The mastermind has fled back
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 5: to Iran where he's originally from. He grew up here.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 5: He's an American guy. He was in the Marines for
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 5: about a minute before he went AWOL. But he's an
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 5: American kid, but he's got Iranian citizenship. And he's got
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 5: family back there. So he flees back to Iran. And
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 5: he's gotten away. So the conventional move on that is
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 5: you issue a warrant and you hope one day he's
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 5: dumb enough to come back to the United States. But
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 5: we wanted to catch him because it was one of
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 5: the cruelest cases I saw in 26 years as a prosecutor.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 5: So his wife was a law student. And their family
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 5: hired a guy named Lou Rosenblum, who was my mentor.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 5: He brought me into homicide. He's one of the best
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 5: lawyers I've ever known. He's one of the best humans.
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 5: And Lou wants to save her because she's up to
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 5: her eyeballs in this thing too. And Lou begins plotting.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 5: And he was the head of the homicide unit. He's
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 5: a hunter. Like he loves to catch the bad guy.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 5: And so here Lou has this young woman. who was
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 5: in this horrifically abusive relationship with this guy. Her family
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 5: didn't even know they were married, and she comes from
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 5: a very good family out of Fresno, and he can
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 5: save her from incredible legal jeopardy because she was looking
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 5: at potentially life in prison.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: Why would she?
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 5: Because she was on the periphery of this conspiracy. There's
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 5: a thing you learn in law school called wagon wheel
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 5: conspiracies where if you do anything to aid, abet, or
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 5: facilitate— Is.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: That what they mean with, like, let's circle the wagons?
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 5: Well, kind of, yeah. So in the middle, you can
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 5: have one person that's running the whole thing. Every wagon wheel,
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 5: even though the wagon, I'm sorry, even every spoke of
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 5: the wagon wheel, even though the spokes might not even
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 5: know the other spokes exist, if you're helping the hub
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 5: in any way, you're on the hook. And it's an
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 5: ancient legal concept. It's not unique to California. So basically
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 5: conspiracy law. If you help somebody knowingly in any way
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 5: in a criminal enterprise, even if you don't know the
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 5: full scope of the conspiracy, you don't know who the
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 5: other conspirators are, If you do anything to assist, you
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 5: face legal jeopardy for that. And she– I've never believed
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 5: that she was a full-blown planner in this. And the
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 5: more we learned about the abusive nature of the relationship,
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 5: the more sympathy I had for her. My co-counsel, Heather Brown,
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 5: the detective. And so basically she's– like she– there was
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 5: a high-speed chase involving this car that was in her
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 5: name like a week before the kidnapping. And it was
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 5: still an impound and she went to go get it.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 5: And that had a bunch of this surveillance equipment in it.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 5: And she signed this thing indicating she, it was her car.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 5: She knew who's driving it. Like, you know, and she
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 5: reported it stolen, but it's, she faced great legal jeopardy
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 5: and she was, she was a life worth saving. And
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 5: the job of a prosecutor really is to do justice, right?
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 5: So if you got somebody that, that doesn't deserve the
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 5: full weight of the lot of land on them, you
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 5: have to show discretion in that. You have to, you
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 5: have to, recognize points of mitigation. And so her husband's
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 5: a psycho who has been abusing her for years. And
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 5: we've got corroborating domestic violence call outs to their house. And,
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 5: you know, and she is clearly not the heavy in this.
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 5: And he but he's gone away. So Lucy is an opportunity.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 5: And it's like, you know, maybe, you know, we can
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 5: save her life and catch the bad guys. So we
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 5: wind up enlisting her to lure him out of Iran.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 5: It took us almost a year.
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: Of her to just be like, I'm so in love
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: with you and I miss you.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 5: All of that. We sent her to her uncle's funeral.
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 5: And it's an incredible story. Never gotten to do anything
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 5: this cool probably my whole time as a prosecutor. And
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 5: then we wind up buying a ticket for her post-bar
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 5: trip that she'd been talking about taking with his sister.
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 5: Who didn't know we were doing any of this.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: She passed the bar?
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 5: Passed the bar.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: So she was a lawyer too?
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 5: She was in law school when all this went down.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: Oh my God.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 5: And then we, we went to bat for her with
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 5: the state bar because she was under investigation. we really,
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 5: and I, and Lou, she, she owes a debt of
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 5: gratitude to Lou Rosenblum that I don't think she will
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 5: ever fully appreciate or repay because that guy saved her
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 5: life because she was on, she was on the short
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 5: bus to state prison because this is such a horrific crime.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 5: There was, Everybody was going down in one way or another,
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 5: but the main guy had gotten away. And Iran is
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 5: never going to accelerate back to the United States. So
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 5: by the time we were able to identify him based
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 5: on the DNA from the glove, which took weeks, he
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 5: was in Iran within days.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: I have a question. There are certain countries that people
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: go to because even if you are like, this person's
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 2: up for murder, they're like, we don't care. We don't cooperate.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: We don't send them back. Why... What are those countries?
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: Are there a handful of them or are there like
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: 50 of them? And why do some countries, why do
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: they want the potential murder? I would be like, what?
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: Here you go.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 5: It's a great question. And look, there are countries that
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 5: just to kind of stick their thumb in the eye
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 5: of the U.S., like Cuba, Venezuela, Iran, probably even, I mean,
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 5: maybe I'm sure Russia now. So there are countries that
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 5: are basically at diplomatic war with the United States. There
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 5: are geopolitical adversaries, enemies, whatever. So they won't extradite anybody.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 5: And so you have all those dissonance that went to
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 5: Cuba in the 60s, like the LA radical terrorists that
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 5: were blowing stuff up. But he was able to go
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 5: to Iran. And they wouldn't just blanket accept a child
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 5: molester who fled. But counterintuitively, so part of this was,
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 5: as we put this whole plan together, were communicating with
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 5: the FBI in various places and proving that there's at
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 5: least one person with a sense of humor in the FBI,
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 5: which I've doubted many times. They call themselves Task Force
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 5: Welcome Home. So the people that are out there to
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 5: repatriate violent criminals back to the United States, they call
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 5: themselves the Welcome Home Unit, which is funny and kind
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 5: of cool. So this guy, I got a whole education
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 5: on it. So we're going to fly him out of
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 5: Iran to Spain, which is where they'd been talking about this,
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 5: and we want to route him someplace that we can
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 5: throw a net on him and catch him, right?
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: A literal net?
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 5: Well, no. Okay. No, a cooler net, like this one
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 5: involved police dogs and big cops with mustaches. Yeah. So
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 5: he's like, look, and counterintuitively here, you know one of
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 5: the worst countries to extradite back to the United States?
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 5: The U.K. The U.K. is a pain in the ass.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 5: And they think that we're savages and our legal system,
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 5: even though it's based on common law. And that's where
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 5: your question really is. I don't know why the U.K.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 5: is in love with all of our child molesters, but
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 5: there are so many in the U.K. right now living
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 5: freely that have escaped the United States that are dragged
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 5: down in extradition proceedings. Wow. I didn't know that. France
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 5: is bad. Spain is bad. Like, yeah. I mean, there
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 5: was a guy who murdered Einhorn, who was a radical
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 5: in the 60s, who murdered his girlfriend. And he was
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 5: like an academic, like Vietnam War protester guy. And he
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 5: sat in France for decades before we found out about France.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 2: Where did Roman Polanski end up?
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 5: France.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 4: Oh.
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 5: Yes.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 5: So there are all these countries that will, there's countries
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 5: that just won't extradite. And then there's others that are
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 5: massive pains in the ass.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: And it's scary for the people that live in France
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: and England. Well, not only that.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 5: It's a huge slap in the face to the victims
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 5: of violence.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 5: Wow. So anyway, so we get him in the Czech
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 5: Republic because all the former Soviet bloc countries apparently love
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 5: the U.S. and trust our judicial system, for fairness. So
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 5: we get him in the Czech Republic. He winds up
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 5: spending a year in solitary confinement in a prison built
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 5: by the Nazis during World War II. And then we
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 5: extradite him. We get him back Everything is good. Full
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 5: steam ahead. We've already prosecuted Hanley. We got everybody in
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 5: the conspiracy.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 2: So you already had the two other guys.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 5: We got we got everybody involved in this. And we've
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 5: got in various stages of like, you know, we worked
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 5: some immunity deals with some like and, you know, we're
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 5: and others are doing less time.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: And this guy of the three, he was there hurting him, too.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: Or was he just the mastermind?
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 5: We've always believed he was the he was the movement shaker.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 5: He's the mastermind of the whole thing. And we proved
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 5: he was the mastermind.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: Of the whole thing. But you don't know if he
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: was there that night?
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 5: No, I know that he is. In one of the
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 5: interviews we did of one of his co-conspirators, the co-conspirator
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 5: flat out said he's the one that cut off the penis.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: Oh, so he was there.
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 5: No, we have information. We didn't introduce that into evidence,
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 5: but that is as a matter of empirical truth here,
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 5: whoever is ever watching this, I've got that tape. One
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 5: of the co-defendants pointed his finger at him. And when
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 5: you look at the background of all these guys, this
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 5: guy was He was a really smart guy and he
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 5: was in the marijuana world and he just wasn't making
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 5: the margins and all of that stuff. And he was
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 5: also involved in a homicide, a voluntary or involuntary manslaughter
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 5: of a friend of his that he did in a
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 5: rollover car accident and killed him, you know, accidentally, but
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 5: like driving recklessly, you know. So we get him back
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 5: in Orange County Jail. All is well. Takes us probably
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 5: two years later and I get a call from the
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 5: sheriff's department that They had a count, which is when
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 5: they count the prisoners. And he was classified as what's
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 5: known as a white bander, which is like DUI guys
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 5: or misdemeanor domestic violence guys. Somehow this manipulative mother effer
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 5: convinced them that he was not a risk. This is
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 5: a guy who's fled to Iran. Takes us like over
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 5: a year to catch this guy. And he has escaped
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 5: from the Orange County Jail. And when he escaped, he
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 5: left my photo on his bunk. He had a photo
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 5: of me and my co-counsel, Heather Browne. On his bunk.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 5: And he had tunneled out, like literally escaped from Alcatraz
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 5: through a vent in this dorm with 50 other prisoners.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 5: Took them months. They got hacksaws. They hacksawed through a
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 5: bunch of bars.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: Just like that movie where they would, yeah.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 5: Just like the movie.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: Do a little every night.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 5: Just like the movie. It's like Shawshank Redemption meets Escape
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 5: from Alcatraz, only way less sympathetic characters. And he escaped
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 5: with two other guys that were charged with murder. And
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 5: they rappelled off the roof, got a cab driver. Went up,
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 5: and I am convinced this guy, it was like 18
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 5: hours between the time he was actually out and the
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 5: time they missed him in the first count. It was like,
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 5: because these are the least secure prisoners. Like, if you're
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 5: a white bander, you're a misdemeanor, basically. Then it goes yellow, orange, red,
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 5: and then blue. All the way up through, like, blue
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 5: is medical, but red bander's the most dangerous. Like, this
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 5: guy should have been a friggin' red bander the second
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 5: he walked in. But they gave him a white band
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 5: designation because he's so, you know.
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: He's so manipulative.
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 5: Did they find him?
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: Or do you want to save it and make everybody.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 5: Read your book? No, I'll do the big reveal. Hopefully,
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 5: there's a lot more in the book. But no, we
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 5: get him. And then he's captured a week later. All
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 5: you need to do is head south. Iran has an
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 5: embassy in Tijuana. And they don't check IDs when you
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 5: go south. You can drive across the border. All you
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 5: need to do is go south. And instead, they went north.
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 5: And we went and recaptured all the guys. They were
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 5: in San Francisco. They were busted in a van in
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 5: Golden Gate Park smoking weed. And yeah, it's like Lou
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 5: kept calling it 95% genius, 5% pure dipshittery. It's like
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 5: all the planning. And then he figures the money's in
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 5: the desert because of the GPS.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: Coins that are one day. Yeah, let's just go join
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: San Fran.
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 5: They won't look there. All he has to do is
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 5: go south, show up in the mirror. And like, I
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 5: was convinced he was, he should have escaped. The guy
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 5: we outsmarted, outsmarted us. So anyway, we wound up on
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 5: the stand in my last trial and I'm cross-examining him.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 5: And that was my final question was, we're all wondering, man,
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 5: why not just leave it there? So the poor guy
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 5: at least has a chance to reattach it. Why not?
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 5: And he, and he, it's called flashing where you get the,
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 5: the guy accused of the violent crime to get super angry.
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 5: And he freaking threatened me from the stand in between
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 5: a superior court judge and the jury that's going to
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 5: decide his fate. And he's like, you, you are done.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 5: And he knew, he knew what we had done. We
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 5: turned his wife against him. We like, we, and, and
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 5: that itself was just the process. Like that, I'd never
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 5: heard of anything like that. And we, but we did
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 5: it and we caught this guy and, and he hated me.
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 5: He like personalized a lot of it. And so he
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 5: is just like, he's like, you, you are done. I'm like,
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 5: I'm done. What do you mean I'm done? He's like,
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 5: you personally, you're done. Super menacing, which is what you
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 5: want when you're like trying to draw it out. And
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 5: then to the jury, it's like, ladies and gentlemen, think
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 5: about this. He's threatening me. I'm a senior deputy district
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 5: attorney in a superior court, literally in between a superior
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 5: court judge and you, and we're surrounded by armed police
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 5: officers and bailiffs. Imagine what that guy is like in
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 5: the back of a van when he's not getting the
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 5: million bucks that he's fantasized he's about to get. Like,
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 5: is that the type of guy who would cut off
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 5: a penis when he, you know, like, and it's, I mean,
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 5: the trial itself was so wild and he was convicted
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 5: and he's been sentenced to life without possibility in California
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 5: state prison. And hopefully- He will never get out.
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: Well, so that's on Hulu this month, but you can
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: also read about it in the book. Listen, tell everybody
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 2: where they can get the book and what else you
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: have going on.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: The Hulu thing, you don't know. It's in February. It's
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: coming up.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 5: It's coming out in February. Yeah. I think it comes
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 5: out on the 7th.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 5: I don't think they've made a final determination, but it's
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 5: coming out soon.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: Great.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 5: We will be watching. Yeah. So- So the book is
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 5: available on Amazon. Barnes & Noble, I just found, and
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 5: this is cool, they've run out of copies in their warehouses.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 5: So that's pretty good to hear. The Audible also, I
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 5: narrated it myself. I don't get it because I hate
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 5: the sound of my own voice, but that's done really well.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 5: People seem to really like the Audible. You can download
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 5: that on Audible, on Amazon. And then one of the chapters,
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 5: one last final thing, is on my Dating Game Killer case.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 5: Anna Kendrick has a movie right now.
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: Oh, yes. I have it right here.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 5: Go ahead. She has a movie.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: I watched it. It was great.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 5: Called Woman of the Hour. And she brought me in
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 5: as a consultant. Danny Lovato is the actor on that.
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 5: I had to deal with Alcala in court every day
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 5: because he represented himself. And that actor did such a
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 5: phenomenal job.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: Oh, really?
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 5: Absolutely fantastic. And they brought me in. For anybody who's wondering,
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 5: Anna Kendrick is lovely. I loved dealing with her. She
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 5: was absolutely fantastic. That's nice to hear. And I just,
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 5: it was such a good experience overall. They let me
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 5: come to the set.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 2: Meanwhile, she had a little bit of a, there's been
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 2: some weird videos of her and Blake.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 5: Oh, absolutely. did not know that.
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 2: Because they did a show called A Simple Favor, which
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: is a great movie, too. But it's interesting to hear, like,
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: Blake does not have a good reputation about people who've
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: worked with her on set. But Anna does. So that's
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: sort of.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 5: Anna was fantastic. And very quick, funny story. She invites
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 5: me to the premiere.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 5: So I get, I get, I, and I, I almost,
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 5: I was going to do an interview. They asked me
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 5: to do an interview for entertainment tonight or one of those,
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 5: one of the dailies and they wouldn't let me on
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 5: the red carpet. The bouncer wouldn't let me on because
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 5: I'm by myself and apparently looked like I did not belong.
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 5: Finally talked my way out of that. But then I
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 5: wound up sitting in between people that turned out to
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 5: be Anna Kendrick's agent on one side of me and
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 5: her manager on the other. And the manager is, turns
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 5: to me and she has no idea who i am
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 5: and she's like it's like so and i'm i'm with
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 5: like the the heavyweights right yeah and and she goes
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 5: so who are you again and i'm like i was
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 5: the prosecutor on the case and she's like oh oh
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 5: and then that's it and then movie ends she's on
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 5: her feet and out and then so i go they
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 5: had the the after party and this is the day
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 5: yeah it's a premiere this is super fun for me
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 5: i'm by.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 2: Myself yeah of course but if anyone yeah and.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 5: I go in and and and then Anna shows up
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 5: and I got to work with her a bunch and
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 5: really kind of got to be friends, you know, like,
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 5: and we kind of hit it off and she's smart
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 5: as hell, funny as can be. And I really kind
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 5: of felt like I made like a new friend. So
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 5: she comes in, she's like, take me to the bar
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 5: and let's get a drink. And I go in and
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 5: then she starts introducing me to people. And I've got
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 5: this like semi-circle around and they're like, so what was
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 5: he really like? And I'm talking about dealing with rodent alcohol.
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 5: And this woman, the manager comes back and she's like, wait,
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 5: who are you again? And I'm like, I told you
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 5: I was the prosecutor on the case. She goes, I
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 5: thought you were like a prosecutor from some scene that
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 5: we cut because you didn't make the movie.
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 2: Oh, an actor.
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 5: I thought you finangled your way in as like some
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 5: cheeseball actor. I'm like, yeah, I got it written all
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 5: over my face. And I'm like, no, it's the actual
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 5: prosecutor on the case. And it was, that was such
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 5: a good experience from beginning to end. And I, she was,
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 5: I brought her down and introduced her to the lead
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 5: detective who's a spirit court judge and a friend of mine.
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 5: And she was like fricking smart and had all like,
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 5: she was asking questions of us that like 20 year
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 5: detectives ask when you're, when you're sitting there at lunch going,
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 5: what do you think these guys think? Or what's the rule?
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 5: Like she was already at that level and she just
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 5: really wanted to understand it. I was blown away by it.
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 5: And one of those things that we all wonder, it's like,
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 5: who would get in the car with the serial killer?
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 5: You know, who would be dumb enough to like go
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 5: into the woods with this guy. And then when you
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 5: actually deal with them, okay. Like, like with Rodney, five
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 5: minutes after dealing with him on the first day after
• 1:21:33
  Speaker 5: he went pro-pro representing himself, it's like, that's why. Because
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 5: you get that... Yeah, like a Ted Bundy, yeah. You
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 5: get the Ted Bundy, you get that hard dose of
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 5: superficial charm.
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 5: And it's like, which is one of the most fascinating
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 5: things about serial killers in general, but this actor friggin'
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 5: nailed it.
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 5: And he did such a good job, and you saw it,
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 5: of going from that charming guy to going dark. And
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 5: that was Rodney Alcala, and that movie was... phenomenal.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: I really, really good.
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 5: So anyway, it's a chapter out of the book for everybody.
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 2: Get, get the book or the audio. And then we're
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: going to watch the three part on the Hulu. Now
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: that we know something about it, it'll be that much
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: more interesting to watch.
• 1:22:13
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: Well now we, we have even more, we want to discuss,
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: but the time is up. So that is going to
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: be over on my Patreon. You go to heathermcdoll.net, join Patreon,
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: and you can see the tier that includes Juicy Crimes,
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 2: and that will be, we will cover Luigi, we will
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 2: cover Epstein, we will cover P. Diddy, and so much more.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: That is all over on the Patreon. The car is beautiful.
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 2: Where did you end up going for it? This exclusive
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 2: place that Dad has connections with. They have more cars
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 2: for more dealerships than like anywhere else. You have to
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 2: put me in touch. What's it called? It's Dune ADL.
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 4: Where?
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: Dune ADL. There's an accent on the E. Do you mean... Yes,
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 2: I got it on Done Deal Cars. Lift, please. Are
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: you going past Kimmage? Oh, Kimmage.
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 5: No.
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: Done Deal Cars. You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.