Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / BLOODY VALENTINE: HUBBY MURDERS WIFE, SAYS SHE 'JUST DIDN'T GIVE A S--T' ABOUT PARIS-THEME DATE

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BLOODY VALENTINE: HUBBY MURDERS WIFE, SAYS SHE 'JUST DIDN'T GIVE A S--T' ABOUT PARIS-THEME DATE · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 2: A bloody Valentine. A husband murders his wife because she
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Speaker 2: quote just didn't give a shit about his Paris themed date,
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Speaker 2: and Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories.
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Speaker 3: Thank you for being with us. A Valentine's Day dinner
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Speaker 3: turns deadly and Indiana mother of three young kids is
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Speaker 3: murdered during a romantic dinner.
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Speaker 2: Does it sound that romantic to me? He goes to
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Speaker 2: Kroger to the Fine Wine aisle, brings home a bottle
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Speaker 2: of wine and plays their favorite song along with the
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Speaker 2: kids drawing of the Eiffel Tower? What is she not
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Speaker 2: supposed to remember the affair he had? Now let me
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Speaker 2: understand this is this real? A husband accused of bludgeoning
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Speaker 2: and stabbing his wife forty times his words, not mine,
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Speaker 2: because she didn't give a shot about his Paris themed
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Speaker 2: night date.
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Speaker 1: I think I've got that right, but maybe I'm wrong. Listen.
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Speaker 4: Jeffersonville, Indiana police get a call about a possible domestic disturbance.
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Speaker 4: May respond to the upscale sixty six hundred block of
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Speaker 4: Westwood Drive, but cannot get into the home. Officers knock
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Speaker 4: on the front door, but did I hear a response?
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Speaker 4: And decide force is necessary and breach the door.
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Speaker 1: I'm gonna get straight to the facts, but first I'm
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Speaker 1: going to go to doctor.
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Speaker 2: Bethany Marshall RENOUNCEDSYCHO and was joining us out of the LA.
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Speaker 1: Jurisdiction, author of deal Breaker.
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Speaker 2: You can find her at doctor Bethany MARSHALLMD dot com. Wait,
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Speaker 2: that's doctor Bethany Marshall dot com and you can see
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Speaker 2: her now on Peacock. Doctor Bethany, thank you for being
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Speaker 2: with us. Let me understand something. Hobby puts on a
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Speaker 2: sad little song, what does he pull it up on
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Speaker 2: his iPhone of what used to be their favorite song?
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Speaker 2: Buys a sad little bottle of wine at Kroger and
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Speaker 2: has his child draw a picture of the Eiffel Tower,
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Speaker 2: and he's angry that she quote his words, doesn't give
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Speaker 2: a about his Paris theme night date, so he murders her.
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Speaker 1: What is she was?
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Speaker 2: She supposed to forget about the affair he had and
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Speaker 2: be just bowled over by a glass of red wine.
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Speaker 5: If we look at this from a domestic violence perspective,
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Speaker 5: this husband probably wanted power and control over her, because
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Speaker 5: that's the m O with DV, and so probably him
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Speaker 5: having an affair in the past, making her feel bad
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Speaker 5: about herself. Probably giving her very little in the marriage
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Speaker 5: was probably getting her to a point where she wanted
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Speaker 5: some independence, and the fact that she wanted some independence
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Speaker 5: destabilized him. So he steps up, does this little Valentine's
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Speaker 5: Day dinner so he can try to get control over
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Speaker 5: him again. He's not trying to seduce her, give a
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Speaker 5: gift or do something nice for her. He wants her
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Speaker 5: back in the fold. But when she leaves for twenty minutes,
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Speaker 5: he becomes paranoid, thinks she's out with the boyfriend, and
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Speaker 5: then he decompensates, and that's when the ragefulness and you know,
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Speaker 5: he takes the power over her to a whole new level.
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Speaker 5: When you kill somebody, that's the ultimate power.
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Speaker 1: Correct.
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Speaker 2: Let me understand something, doctor Bethany, What does it mean
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Speaker 2: having not only prosecuted violent felonies for a decade in
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Speaker 2: intercity Atlanta, but volunteered for nine of those years at
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Speaker 2: the Better Women Center on the hotline? How does it
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Speaker 2: escalate or is that even the right word? To get
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Speaker 2: that angry because she didn't like your iPhone playing the
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Speaker 2: night we met or whatever it was, and giving me
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Speaker 2: a glass of wine how does that escalate into murder?
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Speaker 2: Because in my world, bethany years of training makes me
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Speaker 2: look at the world a different way, such as is
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Speaker 2: their premeditation? Was this planned? When did he hatch the plot?
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Speaker 2: What can I prove to a Jerry? What is probative
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Speaker 2: to me? So the term you use escalate, I don't
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Speaker 2: know that I agree with that, because that somehow means
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Speaker 2: that the situation got out of control and whoops, she's dead.
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Speaker 2: That's not what happened.
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Speaker 1: He had to go get the bottle that he used
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Speaker 1: to bludgeon her, stab her.
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Speaker 2: That took time and a forethought, a technical term we
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Speaker 2: use in the law.
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Speaker 1: It didn't just escalate and whoops, it happened.
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Speaker 5: Right right, He didn't. In other words, he didn't snap
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Speaker 5: because people love that word. So I see where you're
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Speaker 5: going with this, and you're correct. Probably what happened is
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Speaker 5: at the beginning of the marriage he had tight control
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Speaker 5: over her, and she wanted to have autonomy over her
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Speaker 5: whole life, her own life. Maybe she took a college course,
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Speaker 5: or started getting friends, or went out and got a job.
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Speaker 5: And as she became more and more independent, the escalation
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Speaker 5: was that he became more and more paranoid, insecure. Remember,
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Speaker 5: he sat on her back and was scrolling through her phone.
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Speaker 5: He was trying to spy on her through her watch.
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Speaker 5: So when it escalated in that moment, it wasn't just
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Speaker 5: like a snap or a sudden escalation. It had been
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Speaker 5: escalating over years. But the fact is, when she said, Okay,
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Speaker 5: what are you going to do?
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Speaker 1: Kill me?
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Speaker 5: That was one act of independence. When she left and
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Speaker 5: got in her car and drove away, that was another
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Speaker 5: act of independence. So I would think that homicide that
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Speaker 5: was contemplated at an unconscious level, or hatefulness that was
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Speaker 5: contemplated for months or years, finally finally finally spilled over
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Speaker 5: when she became her own person.
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Speaker 2: Okay, doctor Bethany, and I accept everything that you just said.
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Speaker 2: For those of you just joining us, a husband who
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Speaker 2: is presumed innocent is suspected of bludgeoning and stabbing his
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Speaker 2: wife dead when she quote his words, not mine when
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Speaker 2: she quote didn't give a share about his Paris theme party,
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Speaker 2: so he murders her. On Valentine's Greg Morris Joining Me Guys,
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Speaker 2: Greg Morse joining us out of Palm Beach, Florida is
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Speaker 2: a veteran trial lawyer. He's a partner at King Morse.
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Speaker 2: Your name should be first, by the way, former West
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Speaker 2: Palm Beach Public Defender's Office and author of the Untested
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Speaker 2: on Amazon. Greg, you know what of the many things
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Speaker 2: that I hate is when people say.
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Speaker 1: I snapped, or she snapped, or he snapped. There is
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Speaker 1: no snap defense under the law.
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Speaker 2: Okay, So given that, and don't try to convince me otherwise,
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Speaker 2: because that's a lie. He would have to in order
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Speaker 2: to murder her in this manner bludgeoning the Hey, Christina Raya,
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Speaker 2: I'm coming to you. But how many children.
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Speaker 1: Did they have? Two? Or three?
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Speaker 6: Three children, all under the age of.
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Speaker 1: Five, Greg Morse.
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Speaker 2: The children are at home, by the way, asleep, he
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Speaker 2: had to think. Under the law, premeditation does not require
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Speaker 2: a long period of time, such as I'm going to
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Speaker 2: poison Greg Morris over the period of the next month,
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Speaker 2: where the little r say, every day in his coffee
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Speaker 2: till he is dead, not required. In fact, the time
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Speaker 2: required under the law, whether we like it or not,
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Speaker 2: can be in an instant, the twinkling of the moment,
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Speaker 2: the blink of an eye, the time it takes me
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Speaker 2: to raise this gun and pull the trigger. That is
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Speaker 2: enough time. Under the law for premeditation. In other words,
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Speaker 2: murder one malice, murder, murder, A forethought this guy, if
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Speaker 2: the allegations are true, husband, how to go and get
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Speaker 2: the wine bottle, grasp it, raise it over his head
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Speaker 2: and bludget her over and over and over with the
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Speaker 2: thick glass of a wine bottle, and then stab her.
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Speaker 2: The knife to just materialize in his hand. Had to
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Speaker 2: get a knife and use it. So long story short,
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Speaker 2: that is time to form intent.
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Speaker 1: You're right.
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Speaker 7: Intent can come up in the moment. You're one hundred
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Speaker 7: percent right under the law. But in these type of cases,
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Speaker 7: when you talk about the phrase snapped, and I've represented
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Speaker 7: people accused of violent felonies for twenty five years, and
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Speaker 7: one thing is when the act to commit the violence,
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Speaker 7: most people don't understand that moment in time and the
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Speaker 7: consequence and wish they can take.
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Speaker 6: It all back.
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Speaker 7: But what we can't do is look at an insanity.
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Speaker 7: We can't look at the crime. It's violent, it's horrible,
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Speaker 7: So therefore the person must be insane. That crime is
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Speaker 7: the outgrowth of insanity. And what I think we have here,
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Speaker 7: and I've dealt with this before in cases, you probably
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Speaker 7: have a timeline of this person the husband you know
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Speaker 7: of getting frustrated, getting more warped than his understanding of
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Speaker 7: his wife's relationship. People think mental illness is someone in
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Speaker 7: a white coat in a room, but mental illness can
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Speaker 7: develop subtly, and it can develop over time. These folks
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Speaker 7: were looking for help that I guess an appointment with
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Speaker 7: a marriage counselor three days later. Unfortunately, that makes you.
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Speaker 2: You are actually plunging a dagger into my heart.
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Speaker 1: Your misstatement of the.
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Speaker 2: Law is shameless mental illness. He had no prior mental
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Speaker 2: illness at all. He got mad because his wife, and
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Speaker 2: he said this, she just didn't give us about my parents'
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Speaker 2: them mine.
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Speaker 1: He said that that is that is anger. Yes, no,
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Speaker 1: it's anger defense.
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Speaker 5: This was a regional law.
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Speaker 7: Yes, no, rageful killing, one hundred percent rageful killing that
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Speaker 7: amount of.
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Speaker 1: Under the law. Can you answer that with a straight face, Mors.
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Speaker 7: But if I'm living in reality where that is the
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Speaker 7: appropriate response to her reaction, then yes it is again, Nancy,
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Speaker 7: the crime.
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Speaker 2: Is he you say, is anger the appropriate response to her.
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Speaker 1: Reaction for his date nine? Okay, First of all, control.
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Speaker 2: Mike cut his mind right now, Shannon Henry, Right, there
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Speaker 2: is the problem crime stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 1: Shannon Henry is joining me.
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Speaker 2: She's the president and founder of sas sass Go. It
11:05
Speaker 2: is surviving assault, standing strong on a mission to eradicate
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Speaker 2: abuse and violence against women and girls.
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Speaker 1: Shannon, did you hear what he just said?
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Speaker 8: I did, and I'm so glad you cut him off
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Speaker 8: so that the people listening don't believe that crap. This
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Speaker 8: was not just about power and control. This was about ownership.
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Speaker 8: He didn't have any anymore, and so he stole it.
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Speaker 8: It was not about rage. It wasn't a crime of passion.
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Speaker 8: I don't want to hear that either. This was a
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Speaker 8: sadistic killing where he enjoyed watching her suffer from the
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Speaker 8: dress he made her put on, to the dance he
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Speaker 8: made her due to the end where she begged for
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Speaker 8: her life and the lives of her children. It was
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Speaker 8: the grand finale of their marriage, from start to finish,
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Speaker 8: and he enjoyed it all. And I guarantee you this
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Speaker 8: wasn't the first time she felt like her life was
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Speaker 8: being threatened, but it was the last.
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Speaker 1: Would you describe Shannon Henry?
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Speaker 2: And I'm going to go out to the national news
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Speaker 2: anchor at Salem News Channel, Christine Ohio. But Shannon Henry
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Speaker 2: joining us from surviving assault standing strong mission eradicate violence
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Speaker 2: on women.
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Speaker 1: You said from the dress he made her wear to
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Speaker 1: the dance he made her do. What are you talking about?
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Speaker 8: I'm talking about him setting up a stage where every
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Speaker 8: gift quote unquote was a threat and she knew it.
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Speaker 8: You don't go from zero to murder this fast. And
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Speaker 8: if she could clarify it for us all today, she
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Speaker 8: would beg us to listen to her final words of
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Speaker 8: help and what are you going to do? Murder me
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Speaker 8: and leave our children without parents? She was not confused
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Speaker 8: about him. There is a gap that we have in
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Speaker 8: the story between her working hard as a twelve hour
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Speaker 8: shift nurse to him being promiscuous and lazy up to
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Speaker 8: the date of February fourteenth, twenty twenty five where he
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Speaker 8: murdered her. But I guarantee you some of her friends
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Speaker 8: and co workers and family could fill in this gap
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Speaker 8: for us. But the red flags are there. This was
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Speaker 8: about ownership. He didn't have it anymore, so he stole
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Speaker 8: it and bragg to everyone who he could about taking it.
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Speaker 3: You details emerge after an Indiana doting husband and father
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Speaker 3: allegedly confesses to murder after feeling unappreciated, were warning signs missed?
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Speaker 1: Warning signs unappreciated?
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Speaker 2: That is not justification for murder and joining me who
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Speaker 2: I've got a lot of problems with him?
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Speaker 1: Greg Morris, a veteran trial lawyer.
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Speaker 2: He's the partner at a big law firm, King Morse,
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Speaker 2: He's apparently the king of the courtroom down in Palm
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Speaker 2: Beach County, Florida.
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Speaker 1: But to Shannon Henry.
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Speaker 2: Joining us, you can look at Morse, but keep his
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Speaker 2: MinC cut for just a moment, Shannon, he joining me
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Speaker 2: from sas surviving assault standing strong. We got off topic
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Speaker 2: because what you were saying was so interesting, But I
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Speaker 2: want to go back to what Morse said. He responded
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Speaker 2: and got angry to her because of her reaction to
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Speaker 2: his Paris theme night, which was basically a Bible cheat
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Speaker 2: red wine and playing a song on his iPhone that
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Speaker 2: was the theme night, and then getting some sexy dress
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Speaker 2: and making her wear it and dance with him.
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Speaker 1: That was the theme night.
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Speaker 2: Okay, right there, Shannon Henry, I can't tell you how
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Speaker 2: many times I heard.
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Speaker 1: I did it because she fill in the blank.
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Speaker 2: Here is my seminal example, Shannon, This is a real example.
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Speaker 2: This happened on the hotline at the Batter Women's Center.
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Speaker 1: The man beats the wife so badly she has to
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Speaker 1: go to the.
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Speaker 2: Hospital because he was bringing people from work home and
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Speaker 2: he told her to make a Mexican dinner, so she
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Speaker 2: makes a Mexican dinner. He comes in and finds out,
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Speaker 2: I don't remember which one she made, tacos not Enchilada's.
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Speaker 2: And he beat her to a pulp. So he actually said, well,
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Speaker 2: it's because she.
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Speaker 1: Made the wrong thing.
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Speaker 2: Here, you hear Greg Morrise defend and I know what
15:38
Speaker 2: he's doing.
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Speaker 1: He's defending the husband here. That's his job. He is saying.
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Speaker 2: He just had this response because of her reaction. She
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Speaker 2: reacted badly, and he responded, it's always the woman's fault, Shannon.
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Speaker 8: It's always theman's fault. And what's so sad is to
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Speaker 8: look at the stack of red flags that are against him.
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Speaker 8: He had no remorse. He bragged about how big the
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Speaker 8: knife was. He sent the pictures. He made her do
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Speaker 8: a song and dance in front of him and act
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Speaker 8: like she enjoyed it, and when she didn't seem to
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Speaker 8: appreciate it, he murdered her. And he is the only
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Speaker 8: one responsible for that.
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Speaker 2: We also learned that he was convinced his wife was
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Speaker 2: dating a coworker.
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Speaker 1: Answer.
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Speaker 2: Barry Hutchinson, former law enforcement twenty six years veteran detective,
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Speaker 2: now owner chief operator of Barry in Associates Investigative Services,
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Speaker 2: and you can find him on his new website, p
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Speaker 2: I Pride Investigator Barry b A r R.
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Speaker 1: Wife Barry, thank you for being with us.
16:53
Speaker 2: Oh what a tangled web results from imagining your mate
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Speaker 2: having an affair with a co worker. Lucky for me,
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Speaker 2: my husband he knew I would never have an affair
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Speaker 2: with a defense attorney or all the other eligible men
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Speaker 2: that were in the courtroom, mostly convicted felons in leg
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Speaker 2: irons and shackles.
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Speaker 1: And I have.
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Speaker 2: Never even considered that he would run around with a
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Speaker 2: client or a co worker. I just, in fact, one
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Speaker 2: time I read his emails one time. One time they
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Speaker 2: were so boring. He's a banker, My eyes bled. I
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Speaker 2: just it was awful if I had to check up
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Speaker 2: on a man to figure out if he's.
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Speaker 1: Cheating, why do I need him?
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Speaker 6: Bye bye?
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Speaker 2: But here this guy was convinced she's having an affair,
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Speaker 2: and it justified murder.
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Speaker 9: Well, there's no justification in murder, regardless of what the
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Speaker 9: circumstances are. I mean, so you know that as well
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Speaker 9: as I do. I think what we have here is
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Speaker 9: a classic case of when motive meets opperunity. I think
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Speaker 9: it was a long based talkic relationship that this young
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Speaker 9: lady unfortunately, should have been out of long before this
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Speaker 9: ever happened. The only saving grace in this whole scenario
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Speaker 9: that I can even come up with in my mind
18:15
Speaker 9: is that I'm just thankful that it didn't turn out
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Speaker 9: to be a swat call where the kids were endangered,
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Speaker 9: where he actually executed the children too, as the ultimate
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Speaker 9: showing of I'm going to hurt them in front of you,
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Speaker 9: just to show you what I think of you. We've
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Speaker 9: seen that happen on swat calls many many, many times,
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Speaker 9: and we're fortunate if that didn't take place.
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Speaker 2: You mean, and what they call now Barry a family annihilator.
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Speaker 2: So what I'm asking you, and it was in a
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Speaker 2: very roundabout way, and I apologize for.
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Speaker 1: That, Barry. I know that as a PI you get
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Speaker 1: a lot of calls.
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Speaker 2: About I think my girlfriend, boyfriend, ex wife blah blah
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Speaker 2: is cheating. Isn't it true that very often people get
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Speaker 2: this in their head and it's absolutely not true at all.
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Speaker 9: That's very true, very true. In fact, the biggest thing
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Speaker 9: that we do, and we tell all of our clients
19:06
Speaker 9: SYS up front, is that our mission is to vet
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Speaker 9: your spouse that they are not cheating, and if it
19:13
Speaker 9: turns out that they are, then we'll address it at
19:15
Speaker 9: that point. But our mission is to vet them that
19:17
Speaker 9: they are not doing.
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Speaker 1: So, guys, listen to what happened.
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Speaker 4: Deborah's friend receives a photo texted from Deborah's phone. It
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Speaker 4: shows Deborah Meyer motionless and bloody on the floor of
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Speaker 4: her home with the caption your fault. Nine one one
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Speaker 4: Dispatch gets a call from the coworker of Deborah Meyer.
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Speaker 4: When they arrive, Taylor Meyer is refusing to come to
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Speaker 4: the door.
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Speaker 1: Almost as soon.
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Speaker 4: As police arrive, so does Deborah Meyer's coworkers.
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Speaker 2: Okay, I've got so much premeditation. It's out the ying
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Speaker 2: yang technical legal term. Here to Kristin Awayo joining me,
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Speaker 2: national news anchor Salem News, explain to me that sequence
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Speaker 2: of events, the.
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Speaker 1: Co worker.
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Speaker 2: Finds out that there's a quote domestic situation, which is,
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Speaker 2: you know, a euphemism for somebody's.
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Speaker 1: Getting their rear in beat, all right, that's what that means.
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Speaker 2: Coworker calls nine to one one and coworker says, Deborah
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Speaker 2: Meyer is being attacked right now, go to this address.
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Speaker 2: Cops get there, and then the coworker gets a text
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Speaker 2: describe that sequence of events for me, so I understand
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Speaker 2: exactly what happened.
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Speaker 1: That's the wildest part about all of this, right.
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Speaker 6: So, Deborah Meyer's husband, Taylor actually calls a contact in
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Speaker 6: the phone who he thinks is the boyfriend, which is
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Speaker 6: actually the co worker while he's sitting on Deborah Meyer's back,
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Speaker 6: and she's screaming in the background, help me, help me,
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Speaker 6: help me. So her coworker hears this while her husband
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Speaker 6: is telling the coworker this is all your fault. So
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Speaker 6: of course the coworker calls the cops and says she's
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Speaker 6: in danger. I can hear her screaming. He hops in
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Speaker 6: his car high tails it over to her house, as
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Speaker 6: do the cops, and they're meeting in the front yard.
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Speaker 6: The cops are trying to get into the front door.
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Speaker 6: Of course, Taylor Myers not answering the door because he's
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Speaker 6: abusing his wife, possibly killing her. At that very moment,
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Speaker 6: because it was while the coworker was standing in the
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Speaker 6: front yard of the home, he gets the text message
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Speaker 6: of the picture of Deborah Meyer on the floor of
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Speaker 6: her own home dead. So that's when police officers decide
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Speaker 6: to bust down the door. They said that Taylor Meyer
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Speaker 6: was aggressive, resisted arrest, and they finally arrested him. But
21:30
Speaker 6: it's almost safe to presume that he could have been
21:34
Speaker 6: in the act of killing her while the police officers
21:37
Speaker 6: and the coworker we're out on the front lawn trying
21:40
Speaker 6: to get into the house. I mean, it was that
21:42
Speaker 6: tight of a timeline.
21:44
Speaker 10: Accusing her husband of cheating on her and ignoring their
21:47
Speaker 10: children via email, Deborah tries explaining her feelings by saying,
21:50
Speaker 10: I'm supposed to be your wife, your partner, raising children
21:53
Speaker 10: with you, co parenting. I get that you have hobbies
21:56
Speaker 10: and want some time to yourself, but I also feel
21:59
Speaker 10: like that should be limited to certain times of the
22:01
Speaker 10: day and not just immediately get home, shower and go
22:04
Speaker 10: play games and ignore your family that has missed you
22:07
Speaker 10: all day.
22:08
Speaker 2: That is an email that she, the murder victim, sent
22:12
Speaker 2: to her husband prior to her murder. Christina Owyo joining
22:16
Speaker 2: me national news anchor, Salem News. So she is asking
22:22
Speaker 2: him to help her raise the children. I quote, get
22:26
Speaker 2: you have hobbies and want time to yourself, but I
22:29
Speaker 2: also feel like you should spend time with the children,
22:32
Speaker 2: not just get home, shower and go play games. I
22:35
Speaker 2: would do a backflip after I work all day long
22:39
Speaker 2: and make dinner. And if my husband came home and
22:42
Speaker 2: immediately went to the back and got on video games.
22:45
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, fur would fly. Let me just tell you that.
22:51
Speaker 1: And she's writing in this nice email about it.
22:54
Speaker 6: And this was back in twenty twenty three, and this
22:56
Speaker 6: is the same email where she accused him of cheating.
22:58
Speaker 6: So the story of Infhtae is going back to the
23:02
Speaker 6: beginning part of their marriage. She said that he was
23:04
Speaker 6: in the email accused him of having a relationship with
23:07
Speaker 6: another woman which he kept in contact constant context with,
23:11
Speaker 6: And she even accused him of seeing that woman who
23:15
Speaker 6: she thought she was dating, directly before the family went
23:17
Speaker 6: and took family Christmas pictures. So she already thought he
23:22
Speaker 6: was cheating. He may have been cheating, he was ignoring
23:24
Speaker 6: the family, she was reaching out, and she in that
23:26
Speaker 6: email actually threatened to leave him, which she didn't want
23:30
Speaker 6: to do because it was going to be hard to
23:31
Speaker 6: take care.
23:31
Speaker 8: Of the three kids.
23:32
Speaker 2: But she was going to Yes, what did nude photos
23:35
Speaker 2: and somebody's phone mean to you?
23:38
Speaker 1: Cheatings?
23:39
Speaker 2: For me? That means divorcee and doctor Bethany Marshall listened
23:46
Speaker 2: to this.
23:47
Speaker 4: Frustrated and feeling like a single mom, Deborah writes an
23:49
Speaker 4: email to her husband accusing him of cheating, claiming he
23:52
Speaker 4: met up with his girlfriend minutes before they took their
23:55
Speaker 4: family Christmas photo together at the mall. In the explosive email,
23:59
Speaker 4: Debraa said she doesn't want him sending and receiving nude
24:02
Speaker 4: photos from people he was with before they were together
24:05
Speaker 4: as a couple. Nebra also accuses her husband of ignoring
24:07
Speaker 4: her and the couple's three children to play video games.
24:10
Speaker 4: She concludes the email with quote, raising three kids is exhausting,
24:14
Speaker 4: but if I have to, I'm going to do it alone.
24:17
Speaker 4: Just let me know and I'll figure something else out.
24:20
Speaker 1: Raising three children on her own. That's how she felt
24:24
Speaker 1: nude photos he's exchanging.
24:26
Speaker 2: With old girlfriends, according to her, ducking out to see
24:29
Speaker 2: the girlfriend before the Christmas photo together. First of all,
24:33
Speaker 2: Bethany Marshall, do you agree with me? That sending nude
24:37
Speaker 2: photos is cheating.
24:40
Speaker 5: I agree with you.
24:41
Speaker 2: I'm really surprised you said, I thought you were going
24:43
Speaker 2: to take the other tech.
24:44
Speaker 1: But explain to me. I mean, I would be I
24:47
Speaker 1: think so.
24:48
Speaker 2: Hurt to find out my husband's exchanging nude photos. First
24:52
Speaker 2: of all, I wouldn't believe it. I think somebody is
24:54
Speaker 2: stolen his phone and was doing it.
24:56
Speaker 1: But that said, it's cheating, Okay, Nancy.
25:00
Speaker 5: Not only is this cheating, but Taylor entered this relationship,
25:04
Speaker 5: this marriage with Deborah thinking he could do whatever he
25:06
Speaker 5: wants to do, and Deborah was in a double mind.
25:10
Speaker 5: She's sent out to work, she's a nurse, she supports
25:12
Speaker 5: the family, and all the time that she's out there working,
25:16
Speaker 5: he's just brewing up a fantasy that she's cheating on him,
25:19
Speaker 5: when in fact it's a projection because he's cheating on her.
25:22
Speaker 5: I love what Shannon said about this is not just
25:25
Speaker 5: about power. This is about ownership. He owns her and
25:29
Speaker 5: he can do whatever he wants. Send her out like
25:32
Speaker 5: a dog to work, the minute she gets home, go out,
25:35
Speaker 5: have his own affair, or do whatever he wants to do.
25:37
Speaker 5: He's highly manipulative and he's been grooming her for years,
25:41
Speaker 5: that she is just an object to be used. I
25:44
Speaker 5: also think, Nancy, that he is so vindictive. This is
25:48
Speaker 5: a part of his personality and it comes out when
25:50
Speaker 5: he's talking to the police. It's almost like he's.
25:52
Speaker 1: Bragging about the knife.
25:54
Speaker 5: And I think one underlying component that we all need
25:57
Speaker 5: to recognize about DV is that perpetrators everything hurts their feelings,
26:03
Speaker 5: Everything makes them feel insulted, like they've been insulted by
26:07
Speaker 5: the other person. So your story about the man who
26:10
Speaker 5: beat his wife to a pault because she made tacos
26:12
Speaker 5: rather than enchiladas, he probably.
26:15
Speaker 1: Took that as a.
26:15
Speaker 5: Personal affront, felt insulted, then felt diminished, then deflated, and
26:20
Speaker 5: then went on the attack, because that is the classic pattern.
26:23
Speaker 2: I want to go straight back out to Greg Morse
26:26
Speaker 2: joining us please uncut his mic partner at King Morris,
26:33
Speaker 2: veteran trial lawyer. I hope you've had time to think
26:36
Speaker 2: about what you said, that he killed her because of
26:40
Speaker 2: the way she reacted.
26:43
Speaker 1: Would you like to clarify your opinion?
26:48
Speaker 7: And with this premeditation stuff on these facts, everyone has
26:51
Speaker 7: to make a lot of leaps of faith, and frankly,
26:53
Speaker 7: it's just it's not there and what we know so far.
26:58
Speaker 7: What I was saying is that when people have mental illness,
27:01
Speaker 7: and this is a hard case. You know, you were
27:03
Speaker 7: a prosecutor temporary insanity illness.
27:08
Speaker 5: No, no, no, but I would.
27:09
Speaker 2: Use the show, Nancy, all of your experts just made
27:14
Speaker 2: my case for me.
27:14
Speaker 7: I'd hire them in my case. Talking about how he
27:17
Speaker 7: wants to control an act that would that would let
27:20
Speaker 7: us believe that he made know. What I'm saying is
27:24
Speaker 7: that this guy there's no domestic violence before. So if
27:27
Speaker 7: he wants to control every aspect of our life, and
27:30
Speaker 7: he's contrived and intentional, we're going to see police reports.
27:34
Speaker 7: Generally we see this act out well before the murder.
27:36
Speaker 10: In these cases, what we.
27:38
Speaker 7: Have is mental illness doesn't just come with people in
27:41
Speaker 7: white coats and screaming about aliens. It's very subtle. And
27:44
Speaker 7: if this guy believed at the time that his wife's
27:47
Speaker 7: reaction he was living in this alternate reality to him
27:51
Speaker 7: that caused him to do this, well, you know, then
27:53
Speaker 7: you have he wasn't thinking right and wrong in that situation.
27:57
Speaker 7: There's no evidence whatsoever that this I was planning this.
28:01
Speaker 7: Did he plan to buy the wine bottle before the
28:03
Speaker 7: show and do I mean before the dinner so he
28:05
Speaker 7: can hit her over the head with it. No, none
28:07
Speaker 7: of that is there.
28:08
Speaker 2: Did he planted under the law once again, you are
28:12
Speaker 2: contorting the law to suit your purposes.
28:16
Speaker 1: Again, that degree a premeditation is not required.
28:20
Speaker 2: The only degree a premeditation can be formed in seconds,
28:24
Speaker 2: by the time it takes him to walk in the
28:26
Speaker 2: kitchen and get the wine bottle and come back.
28:28
Speaker 1: That's the last time.
28:29
Speaker 2: Plus he stabbed her forty times?
28:33
Speaker 1: Do I have to say, Jody Arias, do I have
28:36
Speaker 1: to raise up that specter?
28:40
Speaker 2: Jody Arias standing traumas Alexander twenty nine times then shot
28:47
Speaker 2: him in the head, leaving him to decompose in the
28:49
Speaker 2: shower's tall Just because you attacked someone multiple times does
28:53
Speaker 2: not insanity make it makes you a killer, a cold
28:57
Speaker 2: bloody killer.
28:58
Speaker 7: That's what I started out with, that the act doesn't
29:01
Speaker 7: make someone insane at all. The act is the outgrowth
29:03
Speaker 7: of insanity. Sometimes when we have that killing someone, people
29:07
Speaker 7: shooting up a school, that seems insane to all of
29:09
Speaker 7: us because we wouldn't do it. But you know, under
29:11
Speaker 7: the law, just because you did that doesn't mean you're insane.
29:14
Speaker 7: You knew, right from wrong. You shouldn't have done it.
29:17
Speaker 7: What my point is, Jodyarius didn't take pictures and send it.
29:21
Speaker 7: Jodyarius didn't act like this was no case, and she
29:24
Speaker 7: got caught. She yes, she took pictures and she.
29:32
Speaker 1: Busted. She did take pictures.
29:34
Speaker 7: No, I understand that. I completely understand that she did.
29:37
Speaker 7: Look how this guy acted in this case with the police.
29:40
Speaker 7: That's not how someone that intends to commit murder acts.
29:43
Speaker 7: They just don't.
29:45
Speaker 1: They don't do that fighting.
29:47
Speaker 2: The police come in by knowing enough to barrickade the door.
29:50
Speaker 1: More more evidence of guilt.
29:53
Speaker 2: You know what, let me jog your memory as to
29:58
Speaker 2: the real facts, not the facts in Greg Morrese's world,
30:02
Speaker 2: but the actual facts from the police reports.
30:07
Speaker 4: Meyer decides to try and turn things around in his
30:09
Speaker 4: marriage by preparing a Valentine's Day dinner with a theme
30:12
Speaker 4: bring Paris to You. Pulling out all the stops, Meyer
30:16
Speaker 4: has their children draw pictures of the Eiffel Tower to
30:18
Speaker 4: decorate the table, buys Deborah a beautiful new dress, and
30:21
Speaker 4: orders food from their favorite Japanese steakhouse. After a lovely dinner,
30:25
Speaker 4: he gives his wife a Valentine's Day card with a
30:28
Speaker 4: personal message and they dance to their wedding song.
30:31
Speaker 3: When the song ends and the dance is finished, Deborah
30:33
Speaker 3: Meyer doesn't give her husband the reaction he wants, and
30:36
Speaker 3: they begin to argue.
30:44
Speaker 1: Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
30:50
Speaker 4: After hitting his wife in the head with a glass
30:52
Speaker 4: wine bottle several times, Taylor Meyer says Deborah was unconscious,
30:56
Speaker 4: but he wasn't sure if she was dead, so.
30:58
Speaker 1: He went into the kitchen and got a quote.
31:00
Speaker 4: Big knife, a long one, and came back to her
31:03
Speaker 4: while she is laid out on the floor and stabs
31:05
Speaker 4: her over and over again in the chest. All told,
31:09
Speaker 4: the thirty six year old mother of three, Deborah Meyer
31:11
Speaker 4: is stabbed forty times after being beaten in the head
31:14
Speaker 4: with a wine bottle.
31:15
Speaker 1: It is her.
31:15
Speaker 2: Trial lawyer at a palm beach describing how the husband
31:20
Speaker 2: in this scenario, now murder defendant. Taylor Meyer says to police,
31:25
Speaker 2: I wasn't sure if she was totally dead, so after
31:29
Speaker 2: I beat her in the head with the wine bottle,
31:31
Speaker 2: I went in the kitchen and got a quote his words,
31:34
Speaker 2: not mine, big knife, a long one, and while she
31:38
Speaker 2: laid on the floor, stabbed her over and over again
31:43
Speaker 2: in the chest.
31:45
Speaker 1: Joining me now is.
31:48
Speaker 2: Renowned chief medical examiner from Terrance County.
31:52
Speaker 1: That's fort Worth.
31:54
Speaker 2: Esteemed lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU,
31:58
Speaker 2: Doctor Kendall Crowns. He's about to launch a hit podcast
32:04
Speaker 2: called DOA Did on arrival April seven, Doctor Kendall Crowns,
32:10
Speaker 2: could you describe what the victim endured after the first
32:15
Speaker 2: blow with the thick end of a wine bottle?
32:19
Speaker 11: Certainly so basically a bottle. When you're struck in the head,
32:23
Speaker 11: the harder edge of the bottle will hit into your head,
32:27
Speaker 11: causing contusions or bruises, tearing at the skin. Usually bottles
32:33
Speaker 11: aren't heavy enough to break the skull, but they can
32:36
Speaker 11: cause you to go unconscious or cause you to collapse.
32:40
Speaker 11: You're going to have pain associated with that, headaches. But
32:43
Speaker 11: if they beat you into unconsciousness, he's probably looking at
32:46
Speaker 11: her still seeing she's breathing. I've seen that before where
32:50
Speaker 11: they can't kill him with the wine bottle, so they
32:53
Speaker 11: go switch up and find something else. He walked into
32:56
Speaker 11: the kitchen, came back and then started stabbing where with
32:58
Speaker 11: a knife. The fact that he stabbed her in the
33:01
Speaker 11: chest over forty times, clustered all together is what we
33:04
Speaker 11: call overkill. So she's obviously unconscious or subdued at that point,
33:08
Speaker 11: and he just keeps stabbing her until she stops breathing.
33:12
Speaker 2: Doctor Kendall Crowns, after the first blow to the head
33:16
Speaker 2: with a wine bottle, we have no evidence that the
33:20
Speaker 2: wine bottle was broken, so that corroborates your theory as
33:25
Speaker 2: to the nature of the first blow.
33:29
Speaker 1: I believe, based on the fact the wine bottle.
33:31
Speaker 2: Was still intact, that she was conscious and saw him
33:37
Speaker 2: coming at her with a knife, lying there immobilized with
33:42
Speaker 2: her children above her, asleep in bed, she sees her
33:48
Speaker 2: husband approach her with a knife and the stabbing begins.
33:53
Speaker 2: Is that scenario feasible, Doctor Kendall Crowns.
33:57
Speaker 11: Yes, that is a possibility that she could still have
33:59
Speaker 11: been conscious. She could have been trying to fake that
34:02
Speaker 11: she was conscious. There's also a possibility that when he
34:06
Speaker 11: beats her to the ground with the wine bottle, that
34:08
Speaker 11: he could have jumped on her back, breaking her spinal column.
34:12
Speaker 11: If the many possibilities, and that could leave her paralyzed.
34:16
Speaker 11: And so she could still be conscious and see him
34:19
Speaker 11: approaching with the knife and not be able to do
34:21
Speaker 11: anything about it.
34:22
Speaker 2: She was stabbed forty times for zero with a quote
34:28
Speaker 2: big kitchen knife, quote eight long one. Obviously she died
34:36
Speaker 2: from bleeding out. So explain to me if she was
34:41
Speaker 2: not killed in the initial stabs, what would she have endured.
34:46
Speaker 2: As she was stabbed repeatedly in the chest, So it's
34:50
Speaker 2: going to.
34:50
Speaker 11: Take her a few minutes to bleed out from the
34:52
Speaker 11: stab wounds. So each stab wound that he is able
34:55
Speaker 11: to deliver is going to cause pain from the cutting
34:59
Speaker 11: of the skin and the sing of the organs with
35:01
Speaker 11: the knife. And then the fact that she's being stabbed
35:03
Speaker 11: in the chest and could collapse lungs making it difficult
35:07
Speaker 11: for her to breathe. She could also be coughing blood
35:10
Speaker 11: up and then swallowing the blood, so she's getting blood
35:13
Speaker 11: in her mouth and hailing the blood, gagging while she's
35:16
Speaker 11: being stabbed over and over, feeling the pain until she
35:20
Speaker 11: finally bleeds out after a few minutes. Granted forty stab wounds,
35:23
Speaker 11: he could probably deliver those in that entire timeframe that
35:27
Speaker 11: it takes her to bleed out.
35:28
Speaker 4: Officers are shocked to learn that husband Taylor Meyer took
35:31
Speaker 4: pictures of his wife's lifeless body and sent it to
35:34
Speaker 4: Deborah's friend and coworker, who called nine one one. Meyer
35:37
Speaker 4: also texted his wife's family and friends, saying I killed
35:40
Speaker 4: Debbie because she's a cheating, lying bitch. Meyer says wife
35:44
Speaker 4: just didn't give a shit about the Paris themed date
35:47
Speaker 4: he planned.
35:48
Speaker 3: And Indiana man sent photos to an alleged lover after
35:52
Speaker 3: a Balentine's Day dinner went sour. What's next for the
35:55
Speaker 3: father of three?
35:57
Speaker 2: Let me understand what I'm hearing that he actually tells
36:02
Speaker 2: police that.
36:05
Speaker 1: He murdered his wife because she quote just didn't.
36:09
Speaker 2: Give it about his Paris theme dinner, and Christina Ohio
36:15
Speaker 2: joining a Salem news channel. He wrote the relatives, sent
36:20
Speaker 2: her relatives a picture of her bludgeoned, stamped body and
36:24
Speaker 2: said I killed Debbie because.
36:25
Speaker 1: She is a cheating line. Is that right?
36:28
Speaker 6: Yes, that is correct.
36:29
Speaker 3: He did that.
36:30
Speaker 6: He sent it to the coworker saying it's your fault.
36:32
Speaker 6: And what's interesting is while he was speaking to police,
36:36
Speaker 6: all of it just revealed in the abba.
36:37
Speaker 1: David, he was almost trying.
36:39
Speaker 6: To get them on his side, like explaining, you understand right,
36:42
Speaker 6: she did this to me. This was the hardest I've
36:45
Speaker 6: ever tried, he said. And if The hardest you've ever
36:48
Speaker 6: tried is buying address taking your wife out to dinner.
36:50
Speaker 6: It's pretty indicative of how much effort you put into
36:52
Speaker 6: the relationship over the last four years.
36:54
Speaker 1: But he was.
36:55
Speaker 6: Literally explaining to the cops like they were boys, like
36:59
Speaker 6: they were friends. This is why I did it. Can't
37:01
Speaker 6: you understand she did this to me?
37:03
Speaker 1: She didn't care.
37:04
Speaker 6: I worked so hard on the celebration and she just
37:07
Speaker 6: didn't care.
37:08
Speaker 2: Correct me if I'm wrong, Christina, But I understood he
37:11
Speaker 2: did not take her out to dinner that they ordered
37:14
Speaker 2: delivery Japanese delivery.
37:16
Speaker 6: Well, according to the what I read in the AffA David,
37:18
Speaker 6: it wasn't clear on if they went out or ordered in.
37:21
Speaker 6: It was that he got her a dinner from their
37:23
Speaker 6: favorite Japanese steakhouse.
37:25
Speaker 2: To go with their Paris theme night. Okay, uh, Doctor
37:29
Speaker 2: Bethany Marshall, help me out here. I killed Debbie because
37:34
Speaker 2: she is a cheating line.
37:37
Speaker 1: You know what?
37:37
Speaker 2: He might as well fill that in with I killed
37:39
Speaker 2: Debbie because she made tacos, not enchiladas. There's always a
37:43
Speaker 2: reason why the woman deserves to be murdered. Have you
37:47
Speaker 2: noticed that talks to agree with him? She's such a hoe,
37:51
Speaker 2: she's a liar, she's a cheater. She goes on and on,
37:55
Speaker 2: she did this, she did that, I had.
37:57
Speaker 1: To kill her.
37:57
Speaker 2: Well, they're going to agree, and even Father of the Year.
38:01
Speaker 5: You know, Nancy. Probably what was happening leading up to
38:03
Speaker 5: this too, was that he was calling coworkers and family
38:06
Speaker 5: members and trying to recruit everybody to be on his side.
38:10
Speaker 5: Because this just spills over when he starts to talk
38:13
Speaker 5: to the police. He probably feels very beleaguered by her,
38:16
Speaker 5: and it's very common for these types of men to
38:19
Speaker 5: invest very little into the relationship but expect everything back
38:24
Speaker 5: from the house, from the spouse. So he just orders
38:27
Speaker 5: up a steak dinner, he doesn't cook. Perhaps he doesn't
38:30
Speaker 5: even take her to the restaurant, buys her probably a
38:33
Speaker 5: horror stress, makes her dance to the music. But he
38:36
Speaker 5: expects all these accolades and all this praise from her.
38:40
Speaker 5: So it's almost like when you ask your child to
38:44
Speaker 5: set the table for dinner and they just do something
38:47
Speaker 5: really small like set a plate down, they think they
38:49
Speaker 5: deserve so much a praise because that's where they are developmentally. Well,
38:54
Speaker 5: these domestic abusers are caught developmentally at that same phase
38:57
Speaker 5: of life where they just invest the tiniest, teensiest little
39:01
Speaker 5: bit and when they don't get all the praise they
39:04
Speaker 5: want all help breaks lose.
39:06
Speaker 2: To Greg Morse, believe it or not, I'm giving you
39:09
Speaker 2: the final argument.
39:11
Speaker 1: Hit me, well, it is.
39:13
Speaker 7: This is not all of these factors and inferences you're
39:17
Speaker 7: making to show premeditation. He's controlling, he's a domestic abuser.
39:21
Speaker 7: So let's suppose there is no murder and we hear
39:23
Speaker 7: this guy does this. It's just a story. A Paris
39:26
Speaker 7: theme night. What a romantic thing he tried to bring
39:28
Speaker 7: his wife Paris. How nice. So my point is he's
39:33
Speaker 7: not acting like someone who planned this. If he was
39:36
Speaker 7: aggressive in an abuser the whole night, when she leaves
39:39
Speaker 7: for twenty minutes, why does she come back? You would
39:41
Speaker 7: have seen signs of that. My point is, insanity can
39:44
Speaker 7: come up below the surface and it can be there.
39:47
Speaker 7: And having the appointment in three days lends me to
39:50
Speaker 7: believe that this was not planned. This was something unless
39:54
Speaker 7: you believe he planned the appointment to show that he
39:56
Speaker 7: really loved his wife and was trying and tried to
39:59
Speaker 7: set up an insanity the defense. But it's a horrible outcome.
40:02
Speaker 7: It's a difficult case to defend. Don't get me wrong,
40:05
Speaker 7: it is very challenging. But I think mental illness is
40:09
Speaker 7: a lot more prevalent in relationships. And I've talked about
40:12
Speaker 7: this on TV and cases I've had before, and this
40:14
Speaker 7: is the outgrowth of it, and it does create This
40:17
Speaker 7: guy was living in his own reality, you know.
40:19
Speaker 2: Shannon Henry joining me present, founder of SAS Surviving Assault
40:22
Speaker 2: Standing Strong. If what he just said was true, they
40:26
Speaker 2: would empty out every jail in the country because everybody
40:30
Speaker 2: would say I had a mental illness.
40:32
Speaker 1: I was angry, that's right.
40:33
Speaker 8: And she came back because she had kids there and
40:36
Speaker 8: she's a good mom. His last attempt to get help
40:41
Speaker 8: was to kill her. Hers was to go to therapy.
40:44
Speaker 8: And I do want to say she was a nurse
40:47
Speaker 8: to Greg. She was a nurse. She knew exactly what
40:50
Speaker 8: was happening to her body when it was happening, and
40:53
Speaker 8: he knew that she would understand that experience too. So
40:56
Speaker 8: while he may not have physically hit her before this day,
40:59
Speaker 8: and there may not be police reports, he abused her
41:02
Speaker 8: for years by doing his best to break her down
41:06
Speaker 8: with infidelity and isolation and insecurity, and by the way.
41:11
Speaker 8: You can be depressed, you can be a psychopath, you
41:14
Speaker 8: can be a narcissist without being an abuser. And I
41:17
Speaker 8: want you to know I would never you would never
41:21
Speaker 8: be able to hire me, and if I did come,
41:24
Speaker 8: I would be honored to clarify that the abused women
41:28
Speaker 8: endure at the hands of unprincipled lawyers like you is awful,
41:34
Speaker 8: just awful, And shame on you for trying to make
41:38
Speaker 8: it clear that this person is insane when he's clearly not.
41:41
Speaker 8: He knew what he was doing from start to finish,
41:44
Speaker 8: from the dress to the stabbing, and then he bragged
41:46
Speaker 8: about it.
41:47
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,