Latest / Reformed Thinking / Who Rules the Church? Authority, Limits, and Papal Abuse | John Calvin

Transcript

Who Rules the Church? Authority, Limits, and Papal Abuse | John Calvin · Reformed Thinking

0:00
Welcome back to Reformed Thinking.
0:01
We are taking on a really crucial moment in history today
0:05
for this deep dive. We are.
0:06
It's a time when you could say the lines between heaven and
0:09
earth got very, very blurry, and it led to, well, centuries of
0:13
conflict. Exactly.
0:14
Our whole deep dive today is about authority, specifically
0:18
the historical and theological debates around the Church's
0:22
claim to worldly power. And our source material for this
0:26
is really top tier. We're drawing from one of the
0:28
most significant works ever written on a subject, John
0:31
Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion.
0:32
Right. And Calvin spends a lot of time
0:34
analyzing and really dismantling the claims made by the Roman
0:38
Pontiff. He does.
0:39
These were claims that, you know, they didn't just spay in
0:42
the spiritual realm. They extended spiritual care
0:45
into this sweeping temporal rulership over nations and
0:48
kings. Which is why this is so
0:50
critical, even for us today. Our mission isn't just a history
0:53
lesson. It's about understanding the
0:55
original vision for the church's role versus the, well, the
0:59
political machine it became. We're basically distilling
1:01
Calvin's arguments against what he calls the inordinate and
1:05
fraudulent claims of the papacy. And we're going to see how he
1:08
uses Scripture, but also, and this is what I find fascinating,
1:11
how he uses internal medieval witnesses to build his case.
1:15
Yeah, that's a key part of his method.
1:17
So we've structured this to follow Calvin's critique.
1:20
We'll start with the big theoretical claims to world
1:22
supremacy of this idea of the two swords.
1:24
OK. Then we're going to get into the
1:26
historical weakness of their main legal argument, which is
1:29
the so-called donation of Constantine.
1:31
The famous forgery. The very famous forgery.
1:33
And finally, we'll look at the practical results of all this,
1:36
the demand for clerical immunity from civil law, and what the
1:41
early Church Fathers actually taught about being subject to
1:44
the government. OK, let's unpack this.
1:46
We're going right to the heart of it, the assertion that the
1:49
papacy held not just spiritual authority, but temporal rule
1:52
over kings and empires. They claim to both swords.
1:56
So Calvin starts by painting a really stark picture of papal
2:00
ambition. This wasn't something that just,
2:02
you know, happened overnight. He describes it as an
2:05
aggressive, escalating grab for land and for rule.
2:10
He notes that the Roman pontiff was not satisfied with modest
2:13
baronies, which were his initial holdings.
2:16
But then he took hold of kingdoms.
2:18
And then the biggest claim of all.
2:21
The Empire itself. The Empire itself.
2:23
It's the sheer scale of it that Calvin wants you to see right
2:26
away. I mean, a modest barony, that's
2:28
one thing. Maybe a local Prince gives some
2:30
land to the church for its upkeep.
2:32
Sure, you can see how that might happen.
2:33
But to go from that to actively seizing control of established
2:37
kingdoms and then claiming you're the boss of the Holy
2:40
Roman Emperor, that completely changes what the Papacy is.
2:44
It's no. Longer just a spiritual office.
2:46
Not at all. It becomes a geopolitical
2:48
military power. And when you start seizing land
2:51
and Thrones on that scale, you need justifications, You need a
2:55
cover story. You do.
2:56
The source identifies 3 pretexts they used to hold on to these
2:59
possessions, which Calvin very colorfully says were obtained by
3:03
mere robbery. So what were these pretexts?
3:06
Well, a word pretext is already telling, isn't it?
3:08
He's saying they were just excuses.
3:10
The first one was a claim of divine right.
3:13
Meaning God gave it to them directly.
3:15
Exactly the idea that the Bishop of Rome inherited this temporal
3:20
supremacy as part of Peter's legacy.
3:22
The 2nd and probably the most famous, was that historical
3:26
pretense we mentioned, the donation of Constantine.
3:29
The supposed legal document. Right.
3:31
And the third was just a catch all.
3:33
Another title which basically meant any other opportunistic
3:36
legal or political trick they could use over the centuries to
3:40
rationalize what they've taken so.
3:42
You've got a theological claim, a historical slash legal claim,
3:46
and then a sort of general political one.
3:48
That's a good way to put it. But before Calvin even starts
3:51
tearing apart the historical lie, which we will get to, he
3:54
brings in a rebuttal from a really surprising source.
3:57
And it's just a brilliant move. In his argument, he brings in
4:00
Bernard of Clairvau. Who is not a Protestant
4:02
reformer? Not even close.
4:04
Bernard was a 12 12th century Cistercian Abbot.
4:07
He was deeply pious, hugely respected and absolutely devoted
4:11
to the Roman Church. So his critique can't just be
4:14
dismissed. No, it can't be brushed off as
4:16
some kind of anti church heresy. It's an internal correction.
4:19
He's actually writing to Pope Eugenius the Third, who was one
4:23
of his own spiritual sons. You could say he's writing as a
4:26
loyal advisor. And what does Bernard say?
4:29
He argues pretty bluntly that this temporal lordship claimed
4:33
by the papacy is not held by Apostolic.
4:36
It's a complete invention, and his reasoning is just
4:39
devastatingly simple, he says. For Peter could not give what he
4:42
did not have. Peter was given the keys of the
4:45
Kingdom. He was given a pastoral,
4:47
spiritual job. Peter didn't have armies or
4:49
castles or crowns, so he couldn't pass them on to his
4:52
successors. So what did he pass on?
4:54
According to Bernard, he passed on the care of the churches
4:57
responsibility for spiritual guidance, not for civil
5:00
government. To make that separation a really
5:02
clear, Bernard points the Pope to the example of Christ
5:05
himself. He brings up that passage in
5:07
Luke 12 where Jesus refuses to get involved in a dispute over
5:12
an inheritance. Yes, Christ says man, who made
5:15
me a judge or a divider over you?
5:17
And that really puts up a theological wall, doesn't it?
5:19
It does. I mean if the Lord and Master,
5:21
who has all authority in heaven and on earth, explicitly says no
5:26
to the very mundane task of settling a civil inheritance
5:29
dispute. Then how can his servant claim
5:31
the right to rule over all men, all kingdoms and all empires?
5:34
It's impossible. It shows that Christ himself
5:37
kept a clear line between his spiritual work and the temporal
5:40
government that belonged to Caesar.
5:41
And this leads to maybe the most pointed critique of all, Bernard
5:45
tells the Pope directly. Your power is therefore in
5:48
misdeeds, not in possessions. Let's just pause on that phrase
5:51
in misdeeds. That is the core of the
5:53
theological point. The keys were given to deal with
5:56
sin, with deeds, the power to bind and loose, to pronounce
6:00
forgiveness in the spiritual realm.
6:02
They were not given to control possessions, land, wealth,
6:05
property. Bernard even asks which is the
6:07
greater honor, to forgive sins or to divide estates?
6:11
And the answer is obvious. Forgiving sins is the higher
6:14
calling, the truly divine task given to the apostles.
6:18
Dividing up estates is a worldly, earthly thing.
6:21
A. Base thing, as he calls it.
6:23
Right. And that's why Bernard draws a
6:25
clear line between the jurisdictions.
6:27
He says these base and earthly things belong to the civil
6:30
world, which has its own proper judges, the kings and Princess
6:34
of the earth. Then he turns that question back
6:36
on the Pope. He does.
6:37
He asked. Why do you invade another's
6:39
border? He portrays the papacy's claim
6:42
to temporal rule as a hostile takeover of the legitimate
6:45
sphere of the civil government. It really sounds like Bernard is
6:47
just trying to get the Pope to remember his job description.
6:50
What kind of imagery does he use?
6:52
He offers this really powerful counsel to Pope Eugenius.
6:55
He says he was made superior not to Domineer, but to minister.
6:58
To serve, not to rule. Exactly.
7:01
And here's the visual he uses, which is just brilliant.
7:04
He tells the Pope. Learn that you need a hoe, not a
7:06
scepter, to do the prophets work.
7:08
A. Hoe not a scepter?
7:10
Think about that. A scepter is the tool of a king.
7:13
It's a symbol of absolute temporal power.
7:16
A hoe is the tool of a laborer. It symbolizes hard work,
7:20
cultivation, humility, the actual work of a spiritual
7:23
prophet. You know, planting and wedding
7:26
and building up the church. So that's the forbidden contrast
7:29
he lays out. You have to choose.
7:30
It's a mutually exclusive choice.
7:32
You dare to take up lordship and you cease to be an apostle or be
7:36
an apostle and give up lordship. The mandate is clear.
7:40
Lordship is forbidden. Ministry is bitten.
7:43
And Calvin's whole point is that this isn't some new Protestant
7:45
attack, this is a great Orthodox teacher saying this centuries
7:49
before the Reformation. So if this was being said so
7:52
clearly by such a respected voice in the 12th century, how
7:56
did the papacy respond? Well, the source notes that
7:59
despite Bernard's powerful critique, the Roman Pontiff went
8:02
ahead and formally decreed in the Council of Arles that the
8:05
supreme right to both sword, spiritual and temporal, belong
8:09
to him by divine right. So they just ignored him and
8:11
made it official doctrine. They did.
8:14
That decree is the institutional rejection of Bernard's spiritual
8:18
advice. It takes the practical seizure
8:21
of land and power and stamps it with a theological seal of
8:24
approval. And that really sets the stage
8:26
for centuries of conflict with kings and emperors.
8:30
It absolutely does. OK, that feels like a perfect
8:32
transition. We've seen the theological
8:34
argument dismantled by an insider.
8:36
Now let's look at the historical legal leg they tried to stand on
8:41
the donation of Constantine. Right, the infamous donation.
8:44
This document was supposed to be the crown jewel of their legal
8:47
justification for ruling the West.
8:49
It was. It was a document supposedly
8:51
written way back in the 4th century by Emperor Constantine.
8:55
The story goes that when he converted to Christianity, he
8:57
just granted control of the entire Western Roman Empire to
9:00
Pope Sylvester the 1st. And Calvin's take on this is not
9:05
subtle. He calls it fabulous and absurd.
9:07
He wastes no time. The sources make it clear that
9:10
even in Calvin's day, this wasn't some sophisticated
9:12
historian puzzle, he says. Anyone moderately versed in the
9:16
history of those times could see that it was a fake.
9:19
Just on its face, the idea that a powerful emperor would just
9:24
give away half of his empire while he's still running it.
9:26
It makes no historical sense. And this is where we see Run is
9:29
on scholarship really helping the Reformation.
9:32
Calvin points out that the best refutation of this document had
9:35
already been done not by a theologian, but by a humanist
9:38
scholar. Lorenzo Vaya, he says Viola had
9:41
already roundly refuted that fable.
9:44
And Valla's work in the mid 1400s was a huge deal.
9:47
He wasn't arguing theology, he was arguing about the Latin.
9:50
Yes, he was a master of philology, the historical study
9:53
of language, which he looked at the actual words in the
9:55
document. So what did he find?
9:57
How did he prove it was a forgery?
9:59
He showed the language was totally anachronistic.
10:02
The Latin used in the donation was the kind of Latin you'd find
10:05
in the 8th or 9th century, not the classical Latin in the 4th
10:08
century when Constantine was alive.
10:11
Can you give an example of what that means?
10:13
Sure. Vala pointed out certain
10:15
phrases, vocabulary, even grammatical structures that
10:18
simply didn't exist in Constantine's time.
10:21
It would be like finding a document supposedly written by
10:23
George Washington that uses the phrase surf the web.
10:27
Right, the language itself gives away the fraud immediately.
10:30
Exactly so the very foundation of the papacy's legal claim to
10:33
rule Italy and the West was known academically to be built
10:37
on an 8th century forgery that was pretending to be a 4th
10:41
century imperial decree that. Completely pulls the rug out
10:45
from under their whole temporal argument.
10:47
It does. And Calvin then contrast this
10:49
proven fraud with the undeniable historical reality of one of the
10:53
most respected figures in church history, Gregory the Great.
10:56
And Gregory serves as a witness against these claims, not by
10:59
writing a critique, but just by living his life.
11:02
Right. His own letters and actions
11:04
provide all the evidence you need.
11:06
His language when writing to the Emperor Maurice is incredibly
11:09
revealing. What did he call him?
11:10
Gregory consistently addressed the emperor as his most serene
11:14
Lord, and in return he called himself Maurice's unworthy
11:17
servant. That's not just flowery
11:19
language. No, it's not just being polite.
11:22
It shows a clear, accepted political structure where the
11:25
Bishop of Rome was a subject of the Roman Emperor in all
11:29
temporal matters. So the civil government had
11:31
lawful temporal authority over the clergy, even the Bishop of
11:35
Rome, Gregory, didn't see himself as operating outside or
11:38
above the emperor's rule. Not at all.
11:41
The source points out that Gregory was pleading for the
11:43
emperor to be gentle in his rule, but he wasn't claiming to
11:47
be exempt from that rule. He explicitly said the emperor
11:50
shouldn't be too ready to take offense at priests, but that he
11:53
should still rule them while giving them due reverence.
11:57
It's a request for respectful government, not a Declaration of
12:00
Independence. He saw himself in common
12:03
subjection like any other citizen when it came to earthly
12:05
power. What about things like church
12:08
property? His words confirm his total
12:10
acceptance of the secular rulers authority.
12:13
There too. There's a really telling quote
12:15
where Gregory says he trusts God will give long life to our pious
12:18
Lords and will arrange the clergy under your hand according
12:21
to his mercy. Under your hand.
12:23
That's the language of subjection.
12:25
It's an admission of obedience to the secular rulers command in
12:28
civil affairs. Which is just a world away from
12:30
the claims of the later Pope's who were saying they could
12:33
depose emperors and demand their loyalty.
12:35
It flips the entire hierarchy on its head.
12:38
Gregory, who was basically running the city of Rome during
12:41
a time of chaos, still accepted that the ultimate legal and
12:44
coercive power was with the emperor.
12:47
He saw his job is managing spiritual things under the legal
12:51
framework of the state. So if the historical record was
12:54
so clear the donation was a lie, the early Pope's were
12:57
politically subject to the Emperor.
13:00
How did the Papacy keep defending this claim for so
13:02
long? Well, the source material
13:04
focuses on what Calvin calls the shameless defense of a lost
13:07
cause. It names a guy, Agustin Astutis,
13:10
who basically worked as a hired pen for the papacy to try and
13:13
revive the refuted claim of the donation.
13:15
So when history and logic fail, you hire a spin doctor.
13:19
That's precisely the accusation Stukas is accused of scattering
13:23
nauseating ditties. Which means, you know,
13:26
worthless, long winded, irrelevant arguments to try and
13:30
obscure the clear light of historical fact that Vella had
13:33
already brought out. The idea was to just overwhelm
13:36
people with words, not persuade them with evidence.
13:39
Exactly. The source even says he pleaded
13:41
his master's case feebly and was arguing a 'cause that was worthy
13:46
of such a deceptive defender. It sounds like Calvin is saying
13:49
that by the 16th century, defending this temporal rule
13:52
wasn't about theological conviction anymore, it was just
13:55
paid for propaganda. That's the point.
13:57
It was about protecting the political and financial assets
14:00
they had acquired, not about defending the truth.
14:03
OK. So we've established that the
14:04
temporal claims were based on bad theology and a fraudulent
14:07
document. So that brings up the big
14:08
practical question, when did this massive temporal empire
14:12
actually start to take shape? Kelvin gives a specific
14:15
historical time frame. He says that less than 500 years
14:18
before he was writing, the Popes were still completely
14:21
subordinate to Princess and crucially, no pontiff was
14:25
created without the emperor's authority.
14:28
So the emperor still had to sign off on the election of a new
14:30
Pope. That's a clear sign of who's in
14:32
charge. A very clear sign of civil
14:34
subordination. So this temporal empire was a
14:37
relatively recent development. That's a huge shift in a pretty
14:40
short period of time. What was the historical event
14:43
that opened the door for this change?
14:45
The instigator is identified as Emperor Henry the 4th, who's
14:48
described as unstable and rash. Henry created the perfect
14:54
opportunity by basically abusing church offices he was selling or
14:58
plundering German bishoprics. The practice of simony.
15:01
Exactly. And this gave the reformers
15:03
within the Church a morally righteous cause to push back
15:06
against imperial authority. This sounds like the start of
15:09
the big fight over investiture. Who gets to appoint bishops, the
15:11
Pope or the Emperor? That's exactly what it is.
15:14
And this chaos was seized on by a man named Hildebrand, who
15:18
became Pope Gregory the 7th. He was provoked broke by Henry's
15:21
corruption and he saw a plausible excuse to assert the
15:25
Church's power. And because Henry was already
15:28
disliked by a lot of German Princess, Gregory found a lot of
15:31
support when he stood up to the Emperor.
15:34
But the source seems to suggest that this plausible excuse
15:38
wasn't his real motivation, right?
15:40
It quickly give it Gregory the 7th is described as unclean and
15:45
wicked, and Calvin argues that he eventually betrayed his
15:49
malicious intention. What was that?
15:51
His initial cause seemed pious, freeing the Church from imperial
15:54
corruption, But he quickly showed that his real goal was to
15:57
replace imperial political control with papal political
16:01
control. So it wasn't about freedom, it
16:02
was about a change in management.
16:04
And when that true intention was revealed, many of the Princess
16:07
who had initially supported him deserted him.
16:09
But the damage was done. His successors were able to
16:12
build on that breakthrough. They were.
16:14
They were able not just to shake off the Imperial yoke, but to
16:17
completely subject Emperors to themselves.
16:19
And the source says this was helped along by weak leadership
16:22
from the emperor's who followed. Yes, we can't forget forget the
16:26
role of weak civil government and all this.
16:29
The subjugation was aided by later emperors who are careless
16:32
and cowardly in pushing back against the Pope's growing
16:35
ambition. So the rise of the papacy's
16:37
temporal power wasn't inevitable.
16:39
It was enabled by a failure of the secular government to do its
16:43
job. It was enabled by political
16:45
neglect. When the magistrate fails to use
16:47
his lawful authority to maintain order, the balance is lost.
16:51
Which brings us to the the pretty grim cost of this
16:54
dominion, especially in the couple of centuries leading up
16:57
to the Reformation. We're talking about constant
16:59
geopolitical conflict. Yeah, the sources list the
17:02
methods used. Pope's ceaselessly invaded
17:05
others domains using fraud, treachery and weapons of war.
17:09
That's the description of a warlord, not a spiritual
17:11
minister. It is, and this constant warfare
17:14
and political scheming meant that for about 200 years these
17:17
efforts so troubled Christendom that they have nearly destroyed
17:21
it. And the destruction was
17:22
tangible. The source notes that the city
17:24
of Rome itself was only brought under the post total control
17:27
about 130 years before Calvin was writing.
17:30
Right, that was the final step in turning the papacy into to a
17:34
true territorial state. To really drive home how far
17:37
things had fallen, the source draws a sharp contrast with the
17:40
standard of the early church going back to Gregory the Great
17:43
again. The standard for purity was
17:45
incredibly high back then. Under Gregory, the bishops got
17:48
together and would anathematize any cleric who tried to occupy a
17:53
piece of property just by, you know, writing his own name on
17:57
the title. So just claiming a piece of
17:58
ground, a relatively minor property crime, earned you the
18:02
church's highest punishment? Anathema.
18:04
Yes. And this sets up a devastating
18:07
rhetorical question. What's that?
18:09
If simply claiming a piece of ground deserve anathema, what
18:12
punishments are strong enough for popes who practiced battles,
18:15
bloodshed, slaughter of armies, sacking of some cities,
18:19
destruction of others, massacres of nations and devastations of
18:22
kingdoms, all just to seize other people's land?
18:24
The implication is that the later papacy was committing
18:27
atrocities for temporal gain that made the petty sins of the
18:30
early church look like nothing. The source says it plainly.
18:33
Their motivation wasn't Christ's glory, it was worldly rule.
18:37
They were carried away by 1 lust for dominion.
18:41
And there's a critical scriptural reference here from
18:43
Ezekiel 34. The source says they believed
18:46
nothing was safe unless they rule with harshness and with
18:49
might. And that those is describing the
18:52
false shepherds of Israel who scattered the flock by ruling
18:56
harshly. By using that specific verse,
18:58
Calvin is accusing the papacy of being theological tyrants.
19:03
They adopted the methods of a destructive worldly ruler
19:06
instead of a nurturing spiritual shepherd.
19:08
That makes the shift from spiritual guide to secular
19:11
tyrant crystal clear. So let's move to how this played
19:15
out on the ground the controversial claim of clerical
19:18
immunity. This claim is where the temporal
19:20
ambition really affected everyday life and civil law.
19:24
The Roman clergy basically said they were exempt from the
19:26
regular court system. Yes.
19:28
They couldn't be called into a common court to answer for
19:30
personal cases, things like debt or assault or property disputes.
19:34
And they saw this as a measure of the Church's freedom.
19:37
They did. They held it beneath their
19:39
dignity to have to answer to a civil judge.
19:42
They believe that this exemption from the common laws was the
19:45
very definition of the church's liberty and dignity.
19:49
If they were subject to the same laws as everyone else, then the
19:52
Church wasn't truly free. But once again, Calvin brings in
19:55
the historical precedent of the ancient emperors and bishops to
19:59
show that this claim was a new invention.
20:01
He does. What did a pious emperor like
20:04
Constantine believe about his authority over the clergy?
20:07
He was. Pretty clear about.
20:08
It very clear he saw himself as having legitimate authority to
20:12
maintain order. He decreed that if any Bishop
20:15
cause a disturbance, his audacity shall be restrained by
20:19
official authority of a minister of God, that is, by my
20:22
authority. That's a stunning statement.
20:24
Constantine sees himself as the minister of God in the civil
20:27
realm, responsible for keeping even bishops in line.
20:30
It directly contradicts the later papal doctrine that the
20:33
emperor is always beneath the pontiff and another emperor,
20:37
Valentinian. He agreed.
20:38
He reinforced the same idea. He did, saying that good bishops
20:42
obey our laws. The early church just accepted
20:45
that for all matters of civil life, property, crime,
20:48
contracts, the clergy were citizens and they were subject
20:52
to the civil government. Now we should be careful here.
20:55
There was 1 acceptable exception, a boundary that even
20:58
the early church recognized. Yes, and the source is very
21:01
clear on this ecclesiastical cases.
21:04
So things like transgressing charity canons or questions of
21:07
faith or matters of internal church discipline, those were
21:10
properly referred to the bishops court.
21:12
So if a priest was accused of heresy, he wouldn't be tried by
21:15
the civil court. Right.
21:16
The spiritual authority governs spiritual life.
21:19
The temporal authority governs civil life.
21:21
It's a clean distinction. And this sets up the perfect
21:23
historical test case. Ambrose, the Bishop of Milan.
21:27
Ambrose He was famous for standing up to emperors, but the
21:30
source says he practiced singular moderation when it came
21:33
to civil authority. Ambrose really provides the blue
21:36
trend for how these two spheres should interact.
21:39
When the Empress Justina, who is an Aryan heretic, tried to order
21:43
him to the palace to debate a matter of faith, Ambrose
21:46
fiercely resisted. On what grounds?
21:49
He argued that in a case involving faith, bishops are
21:52
supposed to judge emperor's, not the other way around.
21:55
He absolutely resisted the state trying to interfere in the
21:57
spiritual office of defining doctrine.
22:00
And that's a laudable defense of spiritual jurisdiction.
22:03
But what happened when the issue wasn't doctrine, but temporal
22:07
things like property or coercion?
22:09
That's where his singular moderation shines.
22:12
He was totally unyielding on doctrine but completely
22:14
compliant on civil law. When the state offered violence,
22:18
Ambrose said he would yield. He said I know not how to
22:21
resist, for our weapons are prayers and tears.
22:23
Our weapons are prayers and tears.
22:25
He did not believe it was a Bishop's job to defend the faith
22:28
or the church's property with weapons or by inciting a
22:31
rebellion. And there's that famous quote of
22:33
his on taxes and property, which just completely dismantles the
22:37
later claims of clerical immunity.
22:39
Totally unambiguous. He submitted fully to civil
22:42
jurisdiction on temporal things. He said.
22:46
If the emperor seeks tribute, we do not deny it.
22:49
The lands of the church pay tribute.
22:51
If he seeks fields, he has the power to claim them.
22:53
None of us resists. So he pays taxes and he submits
22:57
to the government's right to claim land.
23:00
That is a clear, full throated acceptance of the civil
23:03
government supreme authority in the temporal world it is.
23:06
And that's the crucial separation that Calvin is trying
23:08
to get us to see. You can be a faithful spiritual
23:11
leader while also being a fully obedient subject of the state in
23:14
all civil matters. So this helps define what these
23:17
early church fathers actually wanted from godly rulers.
23:20
It wasn't exemption. No, it was stability and
23:23
protection. They just wanted to prevent
23:25
tyrannical violence from getting in the way of the Church's
23:27
spiritual work. They wanted the state to provide
23:29
a safe and orderly environment for preaching and teaching.
23:32
They even approved of Princess getting involved in church
23:35
matters as long as it was for the right reason.
23:38
Right. As long as it was to preserve
23:39
order and establish discipline, the state was seen as an ally in
23:43
maintaining the outward peace the church needed to function.
23:46
And this is because the church has its limits, the source says.
23:50
The Church does not have the power to coerce and ought not to
23:53
seek it. Meaning the church shouldn't
23:55
have its own jails or soldiers, or the power to impose civil
23:59
penalties like fines or executions.
24:02
Since the Church is limited to the spiritual sword, the Word,
24:06
and Church discipline, it becomes the duty of godly kings
24:09
and Princess to sustain religion by law, claws, edicts, and
24:13
judgments. Exactly.
24:14
The civil government is given the coercive sword to enforce
24:17
justice, and part of that justice is supporting the
24:20
conditions needed for true ordered religion to flourish.
24:23
And we see Gregory the Great confirming this again at the
24:26
end, even when he was being corrected by the Emperor.
24:28
Yes. When Emperor Maurice ordered
24:30
bishops to receive fellow bishops who had been exiled by
24:33
Barbarians, Gregory obeyed and told everyone else to obey.
24:37
And even when Maurice chastised Gregory about something else,
24:40
Gregory promised to obey as far as his conscience will allow.
24:43
And he said the emperor was acting as becoming to a pious
24:47
Prince by giving such commands to bishops.
24:50
Gregory's obedience, even when he had some reservations, just
24:54
reinforces the whole concept. The civil government has lawful
24:58
authority over the outward actions of the clergy.
25:00
The only boundary is conscience in the Word of God, but the
25:03
jurisdiction of the Prince is not denied.
25:06
It's a very compelling case from the sources.
25:09
The papacy's claim to temporal power was a new thing, achieved
25:12
through political maneuvering and fraud, and maintained by
25:15
warfare and tyranny. They usurped the proper function
25:19
of the civil magistrate, a function the early church
25:22
willingly submitted to. Well, if we look at the whole
25:24
picture that Calvin is painting here, I think the core take away
25:27
is this radical separation of spheres, the historical record
25:31
backed up by people like Bernard and Gregory.
25:33
It just rigidly divides the Church's spiritual ministry,
25:37
which is focused on sin and the care of souls, from the civil
25:40
magistrates, temporal governance, which is focused on
25:43
property and maintaining order through force.
25:45
So the Roman Pontius claimed to have and rule with both swords
25:49
is just exposed as a complete contradiction.
25:51
It contradicts both spiritual principle and the actual
25:54
practice of the early Church. And the practical conclusion
25:57
from all this is pretty clear. The Church should never seek the
26:01
coercive power of the state, its weapons or prayers and tears.
26:04
And yet the sources also give a specific active duty to the
26:08
civil magistrate, this duty of godly kings and Princess to
26:12
sustain religion by laws, edicts and judgments.
26:15
That dual mandate is the critical tension point.
26:18
It's what defined Reformed thinking on the doctrine of the
26:21
two kingdoms. It accepts the legitimate
26:24
authority of the secular government, but at the same time
26:28
it constrains the Church to purely spiritual means.
26:31
So here's the final thought for you to consider based on this
26:34
framework we've been looking at. The source material argues the
26:37
church has to rely entirely on spiritual authority, right?
26:40
If the civil authority's original duty was to sustain
26:43
religion with laws and judgments, how should believers
26:45
today interpret and apply that specific duty of the magistrate,
26:49
the civil office, in modern societies where the state is,
26:53
you know, religiously neutral or highly pluralistic?
26:55
That's a huge question. It is.
26:57
Does that duty still apply? And if it does, how does the
27:00
spirit of Ambrose's resistance to spiracle interference on the
27:04
one hand, versus his submission to civil coercion on the other,
27:08
help us understand the proper limits of government today?
27:11
It's a question of how a historical theological framework
27:15
gets applied to our very different contemporary political
27:18
realities. Definitely something worth
27:20
mulling over until our next deep dive.
27:22
Thank you for joining us. We look forward to sharing more
27:23
insights with you next time.