Latest / The Bechdel Cast / Carrie with Eva Vives

Transcript

Carrie with Eva Vives · The Bechdel Cast

0:00
Speaker 1: On the Bedel Cast, the questions asked if movies have
0:04
Speaker 1: women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
0:07
Speaker 1: or do they have individualism the patriarchy zef in best
0:12
Speaker 1: start changing it with the Bechdel Cast. Hello and welcome
0:17
Speaker 1: to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus and
0:19
Speaker 1: my name is Caitlin. Darante is our podcast about the
0:22
Speaker 1: portrayal of women in famous movies. Wow, here we are here,
0:28
Speaker 1: we are something that doesn't pass the Bechtel test. Before
0:31
Speaker 1: we entroy it. I used task Rabbit for the first
0:34
Speaker 1: time today and a hot firefighter came to my friend's
0:39
Speaker 1: house and brought her mattress to my house. And then
0:43
Speaker 1: like we added each other on Facebook. Oh I think
0:46
Speaker 1: I LOVET. So you're Gregnt. No, I'm GREGN. I think Gregnt.
0:51
Speaker 1: I don't know I Well, anyways, I met a firefighter today. Okay,
0:55
Speaker 1: what's the Betel So that? Yeah, that for sure didn't
0:57
Speaker 1: pass the Bechdel test, which is a test that you
1:00
Speaker 1: who apply to media for our sake movies. It requires
1:05
Speaker 1: that the movie has two named female identifying characters who
1:11
Speaker 1: speak to each other about something other than a man. Okay,
1:15
Speaker 1: let's try it. Okay, Hey, Caitlin, what Jamie? I guess
1:19
Speaker 1: what kind of mattress I have? Now? Wow? Um, what
1:22
Speaker 1: kind of I don't know? Is it? Yes, Queen? Yes, queen? Okay, Well,
1:28
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be a compelling conversation. But that
1:30
Speaker 1: time that passed. If it was a king's size mattress
1:34
Speaker 1: or California king, that would have not pondering our mattresses? Right?
1:38
Speaker 1: Why did they do that? Why are kings extra big?
1:41
Speaker 1: What did they what did they keeping in there? Well,
1:43
Speaker 1: the real question is why are queens smaller than kings? Oh?
1:47
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean less than but also like I
1:52
Speaker 1: think like better, because if you're getting into the king's
1:55
Speaker 1: size bed territory, it's like, who do you think you are?
1:57
Speaker 1: Like what? No one needs this much space? I think
2:01
Speaker 1: king's eye bed. I don't have one, but it's only
2:03
Speaker 1: because I don't sleep with anyone else in my bed.
2:05
Speaker 1: If I was sleeping with someone, I would need a
2:09
Speaker 1: bed that was at least I would say, twenty ft wide.
2:12
Speaker 1: I just don't let people stay at my house. Sure.
2:14
Speaker 1: The thing, I'm just like, okay, well this get out
2:17
Speaker 1: of here, like you can come for breakfast tomorrow anyways,
2:21
Speaker 1: I'm very nurturing and nice. Um. Okay, I'm so excited
2:26
Speaker 1: for the movie we're talking about today, particularly excited for
2:29
Speaker 1: our guest we have today. Her movie came out last week.
2:32
Speaker 1: It's going to be playing across the country. It's called
2:35
Speaker 1: All About Nina and it is a movie. Well, we'll
2:38
Speaker 1: just let her tell you it's right, or director of
2:41
Speaker 1: Vivez Leans for being here, Thank you for having me.
2:46
Speaker 1: I'm so excited and listened for so long. It's nice
2:48
Speaker 1: to be here. Before we get into the discussion, can
2:52
Speaker 1: you tell us a little bit about All About Nina
2:55
Speaker 1: for our our listeners. Sure. Um, it's a movie that
2:59
Speaker 1: I wrote, and it's my first directorial debut. Well, I
3:03
Speaker 1: guess the debut is always a first write. It's my
3:05
Speaker 1: directorial problem of sorts. Yeah, feature debut anyway, and it
3:11
Speaker 1: stars Mary Elizabeth Winstead soon to be in a huge
3:14
Speaker 1: DC comic book as well. But she is the titular
3:18
Speaker 1: character and she is a stand up comedian something you
3:22
Speaker 1: know something about. And Jamie worked on the movie as well.
3:26
Speaker 1: It's how we met, which I'm very grateful for. She
3:29
Speaker 1: was our comedy consultant. So you might recognize some of
3:32
Speaker 1: her jokes in the film as well. Yeah, there's anytime,
3:34
Speaker 1: there's always anytime there's a joke about fingering, it's my joke. Actually,
3:39
Speaker 1: that's my contribution. Not to give anything away, but yeah,
3:43
Speaker 1: but I also ended up having to cut a bunch
3:45
Speaker 1: because I was like, this is getting it's getting to
3:47
Speaker 1: be too many fingering jokes. We could see the punchline.
3:53
Speaker 1: So everyone should see the movie to begin with. But
3:57
Speaker 1: then also, you know, if you if you happen to
3:59
Speaker 1: giggle at a thing green joke that that's my little contribution.
4:02
Speaker 1: I'm told it's raw and it's dirty, which I'm like, isn't.
4:05
Speaker 1: That's just the way my friends and I are. But
4:08
Speaker 1: it seems just like if you go outside of the
4:09
Speaker 1: comedy scene, I think other people seem to find it
4:12
Speaker 1: kind of in your face. Are it's totally rated. Are
4:16
Speaker 1: and it also has the wonderful comment in it and
4:19
Speaker 1: it Yeah, it definitely passes the big deltas you thought
4:22
Speaker 1: about this already, haven't when when you first gave you
4:25
Speaker 1: this group to year, goos like, oh let's see where
4:27
Speaker 1: it did where? And it passes a billion times? Yeah,
4:30
Speaker 1: it's great, So it's back tell cost approved. Um so
4:34
Speaker 1: so definitely check it out. We'll talk about it again
4:35
Speaker 1: at the end, but today we have a very different
4:39
Speaker 1: movie to discuss because it's the Halloween e month. Now.
4:44
Speaker 1: The movie we're talking about today is Carrie the Brian
4:49
Speaker 1: to pal McCarry nineteen seventy six. Yes, yeah, I'm so
4:54
Speaker 1: excited to talk about it. Yeah, it's it's a wild one.
4:58
Speaker 1: But what's your your history, your relation ship with this movie?
5:00
Speaker 1: When did you first see it? I watched it again
5:03
Speaker 1: this morning in preparation of this, but I had seen it.
5:06
Speaker 1: I don't know, not a ton of times. First of all,
5:09
Speaker 1: I was born in nineteen six. How this is how
5:11
Speaker 1: old this movie is, So I definitely didn't see it.
5:14
Speaker 1: You know, I don't see it as an infant, although
5:17
Speaker 1: I saw a lot of other inappropriate things. But I'll say, um,
5:20
Speaker 1: horror is not my forte and movies, although I certainly
5:24
Speaker 1: love a good horror movie. So I just didn't come
5:26
Speaker 1: to it until probably I was in my mid twenties
5:29
Speaker 1: and a friend of mine, Zoe, said, oh, you should
5:31
Speaker 1: see it. It's all about periods. I was like, oh,
5:35
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that. All right, I'll go see it.
5:37
Speaker 1: It's not going to be the sequel to All About Nina.
5:41
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, we talked quite a lot about bleeding
5:43
Speaker 1: in that movie. But yeah, and then I and then
5:46
Speaker 1: I thought because I had only seen that image of
5:48
Speaker 1: her covered in blood and with the fire, which again
5:51
Speaker 1: I thought, this could go either way, like it could
5:53
Speaker 1: just be one of those silly movies where like women
5:55
Speaker 1: get bloodied up or and then she was like, no, no,
5:58
Speaker 1: it's about periods. So I thought, oh, okay, that's different.
6:01
Speaker 1: So then I watched it, and it's interesting because, I mean,
6:04
Speaker 1: Jamie knows this. I was abused as a kid, and
6:07
Speaker 1: so I maybe because I was in the midst of
6:10
Speaker 1: sort of going to therapy and talking about my recovery.
6:12
Speaker 1: I remember the first time I saw it in my
6:14
Speaker 1: mid twenties, it really hit me that way. I felt
6:17
Speaker 1: it was very much about a kid who I mean,
6:19
Speaker 1: clearly she is being abused at home, and you know
6:22
Speaker 1: how far that abuse goes in terms of her own mother.
6:25
Speaker 1: All of that are the things that when I watched
6:27
Speaker 1: it today, probably like fifteen years later, so I had
6:31
Speaker 1: a lot more questions about. I think at the time
6:33
Speaker 1: it hit me more viscerally because I thought, and you
6:36
Speaker 1: guys are probably you know you you've You're younger than me,
6:39
Speaker 1: so you've grown up at a time where again, even
6:40
Speaker 1: though the movie still leave a lot to be desired
6:43
Speaker 1: in terms of for roles for women and anybody who's
6:46
Speaker 1: not white, basically because, by the way, not one non
6:50
Speaker 1: white person in this movie. Actually I think that I
6:52
Speaker 1: saw one black guy in the in the prom Senior,
6:56
Speaker 1: but no one certainly with speaking roles. No anyway, I digress.
7:00
Speaker 1: But but anyway, so yeah, this time around, um, I
7:04
Speaker 1: was a little bit more disappointed in it in the
7:06
Speaker 1: sense that I wish I mean, I'm sure we'll get
7:08
Speaker 1: into it, but um, the fear of women was very
7:12
Speaker 1: palpable in it, and internally the ending of I guess
7:15
Speaker 1: to me that the allegory felt like if you're abused,
7:18
Speaker 1: you're burning hell, and right there was of gosh, there
7:22
Speaker 1: was a few moments where I thought the movie was
7:24
Speaker 1: ending and it actually wasn't. Like the last few minutes.
7:27
Speaker 1: I mean, we'll get into it, but like the last
7:29
Speaker 1: few minutes of this movie were such a roller coaster
7:31
Speaker 1: of like, how does this movie feel about Carrie? Where
7:34
Speaker 1: like what is the movie? Because I thought it was
7:37
Speaker 1: like reaching a place where I was like, oh, this
7:38
Speaker 1: seems empathetic, and then at the end it's like, no,
7:41
Speaker 1: just kidding, She's in hell. You're like, okay, great, Um, yeah, Caitlin,
7:45
Speaker 1: what's your history of this movie? I lived my whole
7:49
Speaker 1: adolescent in adult life until two years ago thinking that
7:53
Speaker 1: I had seen this movie is like a teenager. And
7:56
Speaker 1: I think it was just because I knew the very
8:00
Speaker 1: on moments of the movie, which is the shower scene
8:02
Speaker 1: where she finds out she gets her period and has
8:04
Speaker 1: a bunch of tampons and pads thrown at her, and
8:07
Speaker 1: the prom scene, which I think I might have actually
8:10
Speaker 1: seen that whole sequence play out, and I just think
8:13
Speaker 1: that I had seen the whole movie. But I watched
8:17
Speaker 1: it two years ago and realized, oh, I've actually never
8:20
Speaker 1: seen this whole movie. So that was a fun revelation
8:24
Speaker 1: for me. But I do distinctly remember seeing the Rage
8:29
Speaker 1: Carrie too. Who wait, when did that come up? No? No, no,
8:35
Speaker 1: the Kimberly Pierce one. I'm not entirely sure it was.
8:39
Speaker 1: I think in early two thousand's uh sequel, let me
8:43
Speaker 1: let me get direct to video deal because I know,
8:49
Speaker 1: because I know Kimpiers remated with Julianne Moore, But I
8:52
Speaker 1: haven't seen that yet, so that's actually watching it today.
8:54
Speaker 1: I was, I was really curious about how her treatment
8:57
Speaker 1: of it would change it. You know, Yeah, I haven't
8:59
Speaker 1: seen the make Yeah that was Julyanne Moore as the mother,
9:02
Speaker 1: and that Chloe Chloe Grace Merits as Carrie saying that
9:07
Speaker 1: blonde girl Chloe really doesn't narrow it down, do you
9:10
Speaker 1: think about it? Also, let that reduced women to their
9:13
Speaker 1: hair colors, Jamie, but also but also but I know
9:19
Speaker 1: I haven't seen that one. But I think the other
9:21
Speaker 1: thing is that I read Stephen King's autobiographical like how
9:26
Speaker 1: to Write Books called On. He talks at length about
9:31
Speaker 1: Carry in that book, which I have not read the
9:35
Speaker 1: book Carry, but I did read On Writing, and I
9:38
Speaker 1: just thought that just through osmosis, I must have. I
9:42
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I've seen this movie, but it was
9:43
Speaker 1: just that I had been exposed to enough Carry related
9:47
Speaker 1: imagery and stories that I thought I saw it. I
9:52
Speaker 1: think that that I had sort of a similar experience
9:54
Speaker 1: where I wasn't if I'd actually seen this movie or not.
9:57
Speaker 1: I think that mostly just speaks to like what a
10:00
Speaker 1: impact this had on like the culture, to the point
10:03
Speaker 1: where by the time I was like twenty minutes and
10:05
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I definitely haven't seen this all
10:07
Speaker 1: the way through. But same like you were saying, I'm
10:09
Speaker 1: pretty sure that I saw clips of it in like college,
10:12
Speaker 1: in like class. It's sort of like that weird saying
10:16
Speaker 1: where I think I know more about this movie through
10:19
Speaker 1: references made to it through other things than like, but
10:22
Speaker 1: I've never actually seen the thing. My experience is this
10:24
Speaker 1: movie is I saw it this morning as usual. But
10:29
Speaker 1: I have had I don't know, I've had a weird
10:32
Speaker 1: lifelong thing with Stephen King because he lives in the
10:36
Speaker 1: same time my grandma lived in it, and so I
10:40
Speaker 1: would like I have like pictures of him when I
10:42
Speaker 1: was a little kid, and I don't know, like he
10:45
Speaker 1: just was like a hero growing up. Even though I
10:49
Speaker 1: haven't read a ton of his books, he was just
10:51
Speaker 1: like the only writer I'd ever met for a very
10:54
Speaker 1: long time. I was like, Oh, he's the coolest, and
10:56
Speaker 1: like the fact that I knew he wrote about girls,
10:58
Speaker 1: even though I wasn't allowed to read the books, Um,
11:01
Speaker 1: I thought was really cool. Stephen King has written so
11:05
Speaker 1: many books that it's kind of hard to have a
11:08
Speaker 1: concise discussion on like how he writes female characters. I
11:11
Speaker 1: haven't also haven't read enough of his stuff to have
11:13
Speaker 1: that conversation. Yeah, let's do the recap. Just read the
11:18
Speaker 1: story and then we'll actually we'll get into more in depth.
11:21
Speaker 1: So many discussions. Okay, So the story of Carrie is
11:28
Speaker 1: we meet Carrie, who is a teenage girl, Sissy SpaceX
11:34
Speaker 1: right love her, What a what a performance. So the
11:38
Speaker 1: movie opens they're playing some volleyball and gym class and
11:41
Speaker 1: then all the girls are showering in a sequence that
11:44
Speaker 1: you know will unpack, and then she gets her period
11:46
Speaker 1: for the first time, and she does not know what's happening.
11:50
Speaker 1: She dying, Yeah, yeah, she just sees blood and she
11:53
Speaker 1: thinks that she's dying. So she starts freaking out and
11:56
Speaker 1: screaming and begging for help, and then all the other
11:59
Speaker 1: girls and her gym class start bullying her, and they're
12:02
Speaker 1: throwing feminine hygiene products at her, which is like what
12:06
Speaker 1: a waste, right, We're taxed on those, like, come on,
12:10
Speaker 1: just throw And the main perpetrator of this bullying incident
12:17
Speaker 1: is this girl, Chris Farra faucet hair. And then the
12:22
Speaker 1: gym teacher comes in and tries to console Carrie and
12:24
Speaker 1: all this is happening, a light bulb bursts and we're like,
12:27
Speaker 1: what's that all about? Then she goes home and we
12:31
Speaker 1: realized that she has a religious zealot for a mother,
12:36
Speaker 1: and I was reading. I think the book she's reading
12:39
Speaker 1: when Carrie walks in is like The Sins of Women,
12:42
Speaker 1: Just like, okay, right, So her mom finds out that
12:47
Speaker 1: Carry has gotten her period and she punishes her for
12:50
Speaker 1: it by locking her in a closet so Harry Potter
12:53
Speaker 1: reference and assuming it came out. So Carrie is the
12:59
Speaker 1: victum of you know, physical, verbal, emotional abuse from her
13:04
Speaker 1: mother and from really everyone around her. Yeah, slapping that
13:08
Speaker 1: happens in this movie is quite slop. Sorry, I keeps fine.
13:14
Speaker 1: So then she goes Carrie goes upstairs after being let
13:17
Speaker 1: out of the closet and her mirror shatters suddenly, and
13:21
Speaker 1: we're like, huh, what's that all about? Isn't that the cue? Though? Yeah,
13:27
Speaker 1: the cues are so goofy. So then the girls in
13:31
Speaker 1: the gym class who were blaming her are being punished
13:35
Speaker 1: by Ms. Collins, the gym teacher, and she's like, do
13:38
Speaker 1: this detention with me or you don't get to go
13:40
Speaker 1: to prom and the anyone cares about, right, So Chris
13:45
Speaker 1: is like, I'm not doing this stupid attention, So she
13:48
Speaker 1: gets banned from prom. Meanwhile, Carrie starts to investigate. She's like,
13:53
Speaker 1: glass keeps shattering around me, Wonder what that's all about?
13:57
Speaker 1: Really like this because we just for corded our bonus
14:01
Speaker 1: episode on Teeth yesterday. There are so many parallels. Yeah.
14:06
Speaker 1: So so Carrie active character takes it upon herself to
14:10
Speaker 1: figure out what the fox is going on. Yes, reads
14:13
Speaker 1: some books, so she finds a book that tells her
14:16
Speaker 1: about telekinesis, So she's like, that sounds like what I have.
14:21
Speaker 1: Then one of the girls who was friends with the
14:24
Speaker 1: mean bully Chris, but who seems to be nicer, Sue Snell.
14:30
Speaker 1: She asks her boyfriend Tommy if he will take Carrie
14:33
Speaker 1: to the prom because she genuinely seems to want to
14:36
Speaker 1: help carry even though she's complicit in some mistreatment of Carrie.
14:42
Speaker 1: That was an interesting, I feel like Sue of everyone
14:44
Speaker 1: for most high school girls, was probably the most relatable
14:49
Speaker 1: character of Like, you're seeing someone get bullied, but you
14:52
Speaker 1: don't want to be on cool, but you also don't
14:54
Speaker 1: want to let this happen and like, what can you do?
14:57
Speaker 1: End it? And so she like tries but Fox, yeah,
15:00
Speaker 1: soue is interested in another male fantasy. Ye, please fuck
15:05
Speaker 1: my girlfriend exactly. So Tommy asks Carrie to prom in
15:14
Speaker 1: a series of scenes that we will also unpack, but
15:17
Speaker 1: eventually Carrie agrees to go to prom with him. Her
15:20
Speaker 1: mom isn't happy about it, but Carrie stands up for herself.
15:22
Speaker 1: She's like, I'm going, Like she made her own dress.
15:25
Speaker 1: She's excited about it, kind of through intimidation too, because
15:28
Speaker 1: her mom knows that, like it's recognizing that Carrie has
15:31
Speaker 1: these powers, and Carrie's like, yeah, I do, so I'm
15:34
Speaker 1: going to prom. Yeah, And we find out some background
15:38
Speaker 1: that the father left, right because she says, your father
15:42
Speaker 1: left for another woman, is what. Yeah, she said your
15:44
Speaker 1: father was evil, to which I didn't know if she
15:46
Speaker 1: was interpreted that the father also had the powers or not,
15:49
Speaker 1: and she just said, no, he just left for another woman.
15:54
Speaker 1: The implication by the end, I don't know, we'll get there,
15:56
Speaker 1: but I questions. Yeah, basically, Carrie's mom is unhappy with
16:04
Speaker 1: the situation, but you know, Carrie's slaming windows and stuff
16:08
Speaker 1: like that with her telekinesis, and she's like, I'm going
16:11
Speaker 1: to prom and great, great moment for a young teenage
16:14
Speaker 1: girl coming to her own power, whether it's against your
16:16
Speaker 1: own parents. I mean, there are some really great moments
16:19
Speaker 1: of that for sure. Yeah. But meanwhile, Chris is plotting
16:23
Speaker 1: something that involved with John travel though which I didn't
16:27
Speaker 1: realize that he was in this movie. It's like, oh,
16:29
Speaker 1: he's plotting against so there there, there's they're scheming. There,
16:32
Speaker 1: there's a pig involved. They killed a pig, lunge of
16:35
Speaker 1: painting each other. There's there's there's a toxic relationship happening there.
16:41
Speaker 1: Everyone gets to prom. Carrie is really excited. She is,
16:45
Speaker 1: you know, dancing with Tommy. He seems to be treating
16:49
Speaker 1: her nicely, except for the parts where he tries to
16:51
Speaker 1: surprise kiss or, which we'll get to. Uh yeah, but
16:54
Speaker 1: at least he seems to he's come or like it's
16:57
Speaker 1: it's no longer like he's doing it aver like he's
17:00
Speaker 1: enjoying his time. Seems like, yeah, the two of them,
17:04
Speaker 1: Tommy and carry when prom king and queen. Because Chris
17:08
Speaker 1: had this system rigged, much like the Russian hacker. Yeah,
17:13
Speaker 1: much like most of our recent elections Russian What is
17:17
Speaker 1: this Gore Bush two thousand basically anyway, maybe that's where
17:22
Speaker 1: they got the idea. Yeah, we were like sure, well,
17:25
Speaker 1: I mean they did it a Carry's prom How hard
17:28
Speaker 1: going to be screened it at the White House? Check
17:32
Speaker 1: out the way they throw those ballots under the table.
17:35
Speaker 1: What if we put a thing of pigs blood onto
17:38
Speaker 1: al Gore? We can blame this on Stephen King. I
17:43
Speaker 1: hope it started out exactly like Carry, and then if
17:45
Speaker 1: they had to like back peddle it be like, well,
17:48
Speaker 1: we can't just like Carry al Gore. It is an
17:51
Speaker 1: all white people party. Start of similarities. It is true. Yeah, man,
17:56
Speaker 1: I mean I think that that's now American history what
17:59
Speaker 1: we just said. Yeah, I can't believe they were going
18:01
Speaker 1: to do that. Allegory seems like a nice guy. So
18:04
Speaker 1: they went from King and Queen and they go up
18:07
Speaker 1: to the stage and that's when the final moments of
18:10
Speaker 1: this plan are unleashed, and this big bucket of pigs
18:15
Speaker 1: blood gets dumped onto Carry and this invokes her to
18:19
Speaker 1: retaliate using her telekinesis. Where there's a hose that's spraying people,
18:24
Speaker 1: she locks all the doors. No survivors. It seems like
18:28
Speaker 1: it seems like she kills everyone then, but she's outside
18:33
Speaker 1: of the doors because I think everyone in the room
18:35
Speaker 1: dies but souele. And then she and then Chris and
18:43
Speaker 1: John travel to get away, but then carries like nope,
18:46
Speaker 1: and she explodes their car right there. There's a there's
18:50
Speaker 1: a fire in the gym. There's all kind of and
18:52
Speaker 1: then so Carrie walks out. She's covered in blood still
18:56
Speaker 1: and then yeah, Chris and what's his name, Billy? I think, yeah,
19:01
Speaker 1: they blow up? They blow up in their car. Did
19:03
Speaker 1: try to run her over first? And she's like no, they?
19:07
Speaker 1: I mean they you know who misses them? Right there? Goodbye?
19:12
Speaker 1: Then she goes home and cleans herself off, and then
19:15
Speaker 1: her mother is like, oh m, Carrie stab and then
19:20
Speaker 1: she stabs her because she's trying. Anne, I should have
19:26
Speaker 1: killed myself. When he put it in me, pretty tremendous.
19:30
Speaker 1: They I love how and it seems like so consistent
19:33
Speaker 1: with this character and just so creepy. How no one
19:36
Speaker 1: in that house ever says the words sex. It's like
19:38
Speaker 1: it and we didn't do it, and he put it
19:41
Speaker 1: When he put it in me is pretty intense, ye, like,
19:44
Speaker 1: it's pretty graphic. Without naming like it. But yeah, and
19:48
Speaker 1: then well then and also it's unclear at that moment
19:50
Speaker 1: if she was raped or not because the mother, because
19:53
Speaker 1: she says I made him promise he wouldn't do it again.
19:56
Speaker 1: But then she's talking about living in since so I
19:58
Speaker 1: couldn't figure out if the problem was that they weren't
20:00
Speaker 1: married or that he had forced himself on her. Yeah.
20:04
Speaker 1: I think it's open to interpretations in the book, but
20:08
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, the movie doesn't really seem to
20:10
Speaker 1: fallow any which. Yeah, so then the house caves in,
20:14
Speaker 1: Carrie gets stabbed once, uh, and then she starts teleconnising,
20:19
Speaker 1: knives into her crucifies her own christ style, and then
20:25
Speaker 1: the house caves in on itself and seems to be
20:28
Speaker 1: sad about it and brings her down from and then
20:31
Speaker 1: and then the house to hell. They get in the closet. Yeah,
20:37
Speaker 1: it's so horrible, and then the final shot is the
20:41
Speaker 1: flattened house basically, and then Sue Snell walks up and
20:46
Speaker 1: she's like, oh no, what a horrible thing that happened
20:49
Speaker 1: to bring us flowers. A bloody hand comes up from
20:52
Speaker 1: beneath the ground and grabs her and she's like, ah,
20:56
Speaker 1: but it was a dream. Right, Oh yeah, it wasn't
20:58
Speaker 1: because then they go back to it and she's still
21:00
Speaker 1: being dragged down. Oh I don't know. Let's watch Rage
21:05
Speaker 1: Carrie too again to find out that doesn't sell out
21:08
Speaker 1: the characters in any way. So that's the story. Let's
21:12
Speaker 1: take a quick break and then we'll come back. All right,
21:20
Speaker 1: and we're back. So I sort of wanted to start
21:24
Speaker 1: with how the teenage girls treat each other in this
21:29
Speaker 1: world and and sort of just unpack that there's so
21:32
Speaker 1: many degrees of separation, like this is a woman's story
21:36
Speaker 1: told by no women at all. And I think we've
21:40
Speaker 1: had this sort of discussion before where it's like so
21:42
Speaker 1: many steps removed from an actual woman, where Stephen King
21:46
Speaker 1: wrote it, and then I forget what the name of
21:50
Speaker 1: the screenwriter, Lawrence Lawrence Leonard Cohen, Leonard Cohen, rest in Power,
21:56
Speaker 1: not amazing if he had written, yeah, Lawrence Decohen. And
22:01
Speaker 1: then and then right he adapted it, and then Brian
22:04
Speaker 1: de Palma produced and directed it. And that's like, that's
22:06
Speaker 1: so many like where is any woman? But it's a
22:10
Speaker 1: woman's story. And I think that that is kind of
22:13
Speaker 1: why this movie for me and a lot of movies
22:17
Speaker 1: of this era and even later like the way. I'm
22:21
Speaker 1: happy that there's a lot of women interacting in a movie,
22:24
Speaker 1: but the way they interact is kind of uncanny Valley
22:28
Speaker 1: and doesn't necessarily make sense to me. And that used
22:31
Speaker 1: to bother me when I'd watch movies like this, but
22:33
Speaker 1: then it's like, yeah, it's because it's just what we're
22:36
Speaker 1: seeing is how three different men interpret teenage girls bullying
22:41
Speaker 1: each other. And not only that, I mean I had
22:44
Speaker 1: the same thought, and like you, I actually blown up
22:46
Speaker 1: to this shamefully that I have never read any Stephen
22:49
Speaker 1: King books, which well, I don't know. I am curious
22:53
Speaker 1: because I do think he's a really interesting character. I
22:55
Speaker 1: have read some of his on writing. I think his
22:57
Speaker 1: politics seem cool, like clearly is interested in women. I
23:01
Speaker 1: do believe he's been fairly open about his own abuse
23:03
Speaker 1: as well, which is also rare for certainly for men
23:06
Speaker 1: of that generation. So you know, I have a lot
23:09
Speaker 1: of sympathy for him, even though again horror is not
23:12
Speaker 1: my genre, but I love a lot of the movies
23:14
Speaker 1: that have been based on his books. So, like you guys,
23:18
Speaker 1: I also I was like, oh, I wonder what the
23:19
Speaker 1: book is like, and I wonder how he feels about
23:22
Speaker 1: the movie and the adaptation. But several times in the movie,
23:25
Speaker 1: including the famous sequence in the beginning, I today so
23:28
Speaker 1: clearly felt that it was actually, you know, I think
23:31
Speaker 1: some men and filmmakers directors do this all the time, specifically,
23:35
Speaker 1: are unable to talk about their own fears, whether it's
23:38
Speaker 1: about masculinity or women, unless they have women portraying them.
23:42
Speaker 1: And to me that sequence today, I thought, I don't
23:44
Speaker 1: know about you guys, but I never saw a young
23:46
Speaker 1: girls and lockers behave like that. And I don't just
23:49
Speaker 1: mean and I don't just mean the throwing things. I
23:51
Speaker 1: know women can get nasty too, It's not about that,
23:54
Speaker 1: but the way it was more. First of all, the
23:57
Speaker 1: slow motion movement of tits in your face and all
23:59
Speaker 1: of which I know was supposed to be you know,
24:03
Speaker 1: romantic and beautiful or whatever, but it was what it was.
24:06
Speaker 1: But also that like they were like snapping towels on
24:09
Speaker 1: each other. And I remember at the time, the age
24:12
Speaker 1: they're supposed to be girls would just cover up like
24:15
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe you walked from the shower to something
24:18
Speaker 1: or whatever. But to me, at least, and again I'm
24:20
Speaker 1: curious about your guys experience, but the being comfortable being
24:23
Speaker 1: naked in front of women came later, like when it
24:26
Speaker 1: was my friends and you're choosing, Like when you're a
24:28
Speaker 1: teenager in high school, the last thing you want to
24:30
Speaker 1: do is for anybody to see your tids or you're asked.
24:32
Speaker 1: But here they were. It was like a playboy advertisement
24:36
Speaker 1: of what they I think what men were seeing as
24:38
Speaker 1: oh this is but also probably the way and again
24:42
Speaker 1: I wouldn't know this from personal experience, but the way
24:44
Speaker 1: dudes are right or or maybe in that generation where
24:47
Speaker 1: in locker rooms where they're much more SHOWOFFI and right,
24:50
Speaker 1: they're just sort of mapping typical male behavior onto women
24:54
Speaker 1: to basically make it a very like male gaze thing
24:57
Speaker 1: where we can see like full frontal nudity, like girls
25:00
Speaker 1: slapping each other and throwing like their clothes at each
25:03
Speaker 1: other and stuff. And by the same token, I felt
25:05
Speaker 1: the same way with you know, with the famous shot
25:07
Speaker 1: of her period started, I'm like, boy, that is some
25:09
Speaker 1: heavy flow for she's just gosh, she's a guyser. It's
25:14
Speaker 1: like real man's understanding of what a period is. I
25:19
Speaker 1: think that that whole scene plays into, like I don't know,
25:23
Speaker 1: from when we're very young. There's always like the joke
25:25
Speaker 1: where I don't like creepy uncles would be like, so,
25:29
Speaker 1: like what happens in the women's room, is there like
25:31
Speaker 1: a couch in there? Is there like a TV? Is there?
25:34
Speaker 1: You know, like like that and and and a scene
25:37
Speaker 1: like that. It's almost like, yeah, here's what your creepy
25:39
Speaker 1: uncle things is happening in your lot there, like when
25:41
Speaker 1: we get to reinterpret this like great this is and
25:44
Speaker 1: and you can see that it's you know, Brian's fantasy
25:47
Speaker 1: of like I get to shoot all these young neubile
25:50
Speaker 1: bodies and the same basically all white girls with the
25:55
Speaker 1: same body type. The one that's a little bigger whose
25:58
Speaker 1: name I forget, but she's great actors. She's the funny
26:02
Speaker 1: one because yeah, it's bigger women are funny according to
26:07
Speaker 1: But also think and also that the period thing when
26:11
Speaker 1: it comes, which again I am glad I saw this
26:13
Speaker 1: so long ago, because I do remember I think I
26:15
Speaker 1: didn't finish that thought that I think at the time
26:17
Speaker 1: I was still so glad to have like any female
26:20
Speaker 1: representation that especially if it dealt with something like getting
26:23
Speaker 1: a period or anything like that, that I was just
26:25
Speaker 1: sort of fascinated by that, whereas this time around I
26:28
Speaker 1: was a little bit more out of it, meaning I
26:31
Speaker 1: was like, none of these and and to your point
26:33
Speaker 1: about how mean everybody is. I know that the Amy
26:35
Speaker 1: Urban character eventually tries to help her, but I was like,
26:38
Speaker 1: you know, this ship happens all the time that women
26:40
Speaker 1: have accidents with their periods or you bleeds or your
26:43
Speaker 1: pants or whatever, like, we tend to help each other
26:46
Speaker 1: out with that, Like even for young girls, it seems
26:49
Speaker 1: really weird for all of them to to like start
26:51
Speaker 1: just pats on her, especially when she looks as horrified
26:55
Speaker 1: and as terrified as she does. Right, And it's relatively
26:58
Speaker 1: something that I was searching for in this movie, was
27:01
Speaker 1: more practical reasoning for the bullying, because it was just
27:06
Speaker 1: like I was hoping for, like you know, later in
27:09
Speaker 1: the story, Chris, we would understand like in a clear
27:12
Speaker 1: way she's jealous of Carrie in some way, or there's
27:15
Speaker 1: some connection between the two other than just Chris. Yes, yes, yes,
27:20
Speaker 1: it's never really girl. I mean, we get a couple
27:23
Speaker 1: of mentions of how we are she is and how
27:25
Speaker 1: she's not like others, but that's mostly coming from her
27:28
Speaker 1: when she talks to her mother later saying, I'm funny, nobody,
27:31
Speaker 1: I'm not like the other kids, right, and it's it is,
27:34
Speaker 1: it's just a little I don't know. I was just
27:36
Speaker 1: like hoping for it would have been very easy to
27:39
Speaker 1: ground that storyline a little bit of like maybe they
27:41
Speaker 1: used to be friends and now they're not, or just
27:43
Speaker 1: like a more a clear reason for women to be
27:47
Speaker 1: so aggressively mean to each other, because as it is,
27:50
Speaker 1: it just kind of seems like this is how the
27:53
Speaker 1: writers feel women treat each other would feel about each other. Yeah,
27:57
Speaker 1: I think that men have just historically seen whether or
28:01
Speaker 1: not they have actually seen this or if this is
28:04
Speaker 1: just their sort of idea of what female friendships and
28:09
Speaker 1: relationships must be like, but they just assumed that women
28:12
Speaker 1: can't get along and and they're always so cruel to
28:15
Speaker 1: each other, And then men preferred it that way to
28:18
Speaker 1: write that it's like it's easier for them to handle,
28:21
Speaker 1: as if we're just like caddy bitches like at each other.
28:24
Speaker 1: And I was also taken by the fact that with
28:26
Speaker 1: the exception of her mom and the coach, which is
28:29
Speaker 1: a whole other conversation I'm sure we'll get into, I
28:32
Speaker 1: felt like all of the other girls were consistently defined
28:35
Speaker 1: certainly by their looks, whether they were naked or not,
28:38
Speaker 1: they all kind of looked the same. And then they
28:40
Speaker 1: were competing for men and or for a beauty queen title, right,
28:44
Speaker 1: like that was the only thing that seemed to be
28:46
Speaker 1: of interest to them. And it was like, which also
28:49
Speaker 1: seems unrealistic because it's their senior year of high school
28:53
Speaker 1: and no one talks about what they're doing after high school, Like,
28:56
Speaker 1: as far as they're concerned, their life ends on prem
28:59
Speaker 1: Night and then to be it does. The most interesting
29:03
Speaker 1: character to me who wasn't Carrie was Sue, where I
29:08
Speaker 1: don't know, it's like, you see what she's doing from
29:10
Speaker 1: a teenager's perspective, but it's so misguided, right because she
29:16
Speaker 1: seems to be wanting to help break carry out of
29:19
Speaker 1: her show, but in order to do that, that means
29:22
Speaker 1: she has to just start dating, Like surely there's she's
29:26
Speaker 1: just like introducing like a romantic component into it. And
29:29
Speaker 1: it's like, well, they're like, why don't you just try
29:30
Speaker 1: to talk to her? Like, why don't you just try
29:32
Speaker 1: to befriend her? Well, that's the thing about Sue that
29:35
Speaker 1: that I thought was so interesting was like that she
29:37
Speaker 1: wanted Carrie to have a better quality of life at
29:41
Speaker 1: this high school, but she didn't want credit for it.
29:44
Speaker 1: She didn't want it to seem like she had had
29:46
Speaker 1: anything to do with it. So in Sue's mind, the
29:49
Speaker 1: way I interpreted it was like, Sue feels for this girl,
29:54
Speaker 1: but doesn't want to become less cool in the eyes
29:59
Speaker 1: of her peers by becoming friend. Yes, also, it wouldn't
30:04
Speaker 1: fit the pattern of how these guys seem to be
30:06
Speaker 1: seeing these girls because instead, like the quote unquote nice
30:10
Speaker 1: thing for her to do is to say, you know what,
30:12
Speaker 1: this girl would need to get late or you know
30:16
Speaker 1: or I mean, when I was watching it from her
30:18
Speaker 1: point of view, like I was thinking about actors and motivation,
30:21
Speaker 1: and she you know, probably she's saying, well, I think
30:24
Speaker 1: her boyfriend is nice. So she's like, maybe I can,
30:27
Speaker 1: you know, sacrifice myself by allowing Carrie to go to
30:30
Speaker 1: prom with him, because in another nutty way, you can't
30:33
Speaker 1: go to prom without a date, they say in the
30:35
Speaker 1: movie too like so so it's a sacrifice for Sue
30:41
Speaker 1: to say I won't go, you go, which again is
30:44
Speaker 1: sort of another like thing that's expected from nice women,
30:47
Speaker 1: right that they make sacrifices like that, why the dude
30:50
Speaker 1: also doesn't it's such a weird thing to do, to
30:54
Speaker 1: be like, because then he also seems to interpret it
30:57
Speaker 1: as like now we're boyfriend and girlfriend because he kisses her.
31:00
Speaker 1: Think okay, so and it becomes a romance between the
31:02
Speaker 1: two of them. So I was like, so, well, what
31:03
Speaker 1: happened to the other girl? Like was the agreement that
31:07
Speaker 1: Sue is literally giving your boyfriend because they're they're introducing
31:13
Speaker 1: a throubled component to their relationship. Well, and then the
31:16
Speaker 1: conversation that they have with the coach about it. The
31:18
Speaker 1: coach questions and like why are you doing this? What's
31:21
Speaker 1: your motivation? And he seems really confused, which was the
31:24
Speaker 1: only thing that seemed really realistic to me, Like they
31:27
Speaker 1: asked him something and he's like, I don't know what
31:30
Speaker 1: the fun is going on. It's that scene And then
31:32
Speaker 1: it's what you're talking about Jamie with like her wanting
31:36
Speaker 1: to kind of like be behind the scenes and this
31:38
Speaker 1: whole thing that made me think the first time I
31:41
Speaker 1: saw this movie was that Sue was in on Chris's
31:46
Speaker 1: scheme and that she they were trying to find a
31:51
Speaker 1: way to get her to prom so that they could
31:52
Speaker 1: sabotage her, which I thought story wise, yeah, And so
31:56
Speaker 1: I wrote this whole set of notes that it's like, oh,
31:59
Speaker 1: another teen movie about boys tricking girls to get them
32:03
Speaker 1: to proms so that they can play an awful prank
32:05
Speaker 1: on them. And then so I wrote all these notes
32:07
Speaker 1: about it, and then I was like, oh, yeah, but
32:09
Speaker 1: this time, like the schemers get their come up and
32:13
Speaker 1: unlike most movies that we've talked about where they end
32:16
Speaker 1: up kissing each other at the end. But then I
32:18
Speaker 1: was like, oh no, that doesn't even have they do
32:21
Speaker 1: seem to be innocent. Those two Sue and her boyfriend
32:25
Speaker 1: right the only ones who and the male students in
32:28
Speaker 1: this movie. I think it's kind of almost an not
32:32
Speaker 1: not responsible, but like an unusual portrayal of teen boys
32:35
Speaker 1: where they are relatively clueless and basically are And I
32:40
Speaker 1: think that this goes into writer's intent and reflects on
32:44
Speaker 1: the writer's view of women, whether that be you know, DiPalma,
32:48
Speaker 1: the screenwriter, Stephen King, I don't even know, but that
32:52
Speaker 1: these two teen boys, whether they're doing something relatively good
32:56
Speaker 1: like bringing carry to prom or bad, punishing carry it
32:59
Speaker 1: prom for no reason, it's never their idea. They're doing
33:03
Speaker 1: what a woman is telling them to do, there being
33:05
Speaker 1: two for the purposes of this story, manipulated by a woman.
33:10
Speaker 1: And I think that that reflects on how the authors
33:13
Speaker 1: view women well, and also the rage that the Travolta
33:16
Speaker 1: character has over being called stupid, because it happens like
33:19
Speaker 1: three times that that Chris calls keeps stupid, I think,
33:23
Speaker 1: And then he slaps her, and then she's she slaps
33:26
Speaker 1: him once. I don't know, it's just and there's a
33:29
Speaker 1: lot of shots of her tits too, and among those fights,
33:32
Speaker 1: so there is I think again, I felt so much
33:35
Speaker 1: more like this is not only a male interpretation of women,
33:38
Speaker 1: but a male interpretation of themselves by using women as
33:41
Speaker 1: the conduits of it. You know that so much rage
33:44
Speaker 1: comes to men if they feel belittled by women or
33:48
Speaker 1: not considered fuckable by women or whatever, But it's easier
33:51
Speaker 1: to put it on a bunch of girls, right, and
33:53
Speaker 1: then like piggybacking on that almost like in the context
33:58
Speaker 1: of this story, like blaming their female counterparts for whatever
34:02
Speaker 1: it is they end up doing, where like it's you know,
34:06
Speaker 1: Travolta's character is being told what to do and there's
34:10
Speaker 1: that scene with Chris that I mean the scene where
34:13
Speaker 1: they're in the car and they're fighting, but then it's
34:15
Speaker 1: like she in a very classically teen movie way manipulates
34:19
Speaker 1: him through sex to get him to do what she wants,
34:21
Speaker 1: where she gives him a blowjob and then all of
34:23
Speaker 1: a sudden he's willing to kill a pig like stuff
34:26
Speaker 1: like that where he's supposed to be blown him. But
34:29
Speaker 1: she was like, I hate Carrie White, right, I'm like,
34:36
Speaker 1: can anyone else speak full sentences with a dick in
34:38
Speaker 1: their mouth? Because and also like the thing, and then
34:41
Speaker 1: why does she hate her? Is it because they because
34:44
Speaker 1: the period thing? They got punished? And then she well here, yeah,
34:48
Speaker 1: here's my interpretation of that, which is that we're meant
34:51
Speaker 1: to believe that there is a young woman in this
34:55
Speaker 1: movie who is so hell bent on going to prom
34:58
Speaker 1: and who was so obsessed with prom that she will
35:02
Speaker 1: go to great and crazy and violent and horrible lengths
35:07
Speaker 1: to ruin another girl's prom experience just because she blames
35:11
Speaker 1: Carrie for not being able to go herself. But which
35:15
Speaker 1: which is wild, Like, no one is that about prom?
35:21
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm sure plenty were No, Yeah, but
35:26
Speaker 1: are they going to kill a pig and then dump
35:28
Speaker 1: its blood on a poor suspecting the killing the pig scene?
35:33
Speaker 1: That just seems really really intense. I guess the darkness
35:37
Speaker 1: of that stuff I think would have I think would
35:39
Speaker 1: have made for a better movie. And again, such character
35:41
Speaker 1: study if we understood, for example, where the Travolta and
35:44
Speaker 1: that Chris character we're coming from. Like I'm not saying,
35:47
Speaker 1: I mean, if you start thinking about it, sounds like
35:50
Speaker 1: some kind of psychosis or something. If you're going to
35:51
Speaker 1: go out at night and murder a pig with your
35:54
Speaker 1: own hands, Philip bucket of blood, like because if it's
35:56
Speaker 1: the joke, then just throw fucking paint on her, right,
35:59
Speaker 1: Like why does it have to right? But blood anyway?
36:02
Speaker 1: And I guess that's what they're trying to Um Well,
36:07
Speaker 1: I mean it's you know, it's a horror movie. You
36:09
Speaker 1: have to suspend your disbelief for quite a few things.
36:12
Speaker 1: But it does sort of it reinforces this idea. So
36:16
Speaker 1: I've talked about this a lot on and we've done
36:18
Speaker 1: a lot of teen movies recently. There's a trope that
36:21
Speaker 1: really bugs me that teen movies always seem to have
36:25
Speaker 1: to end in prom or a spring formal or some
36:28
Speaker 1: sort of big affair like that. And I think I've
36:31
Speaker 1: pinpointed why it bugs me so much, which is that
36:35
Speaker 1: when I was a girl and a young woman, and
36:38
Speaker 1: this is specific to my experience, but it I think
36:41
Speaker 1: it rings true for probably quite a few people that
36:44
Speaker 1: the big milestones that I was taught to look forward
36:47
Speaker 1: to and was taught to think are super important moments
36:50
Speaker 1: of my life were prom and my inevitable wedding, which
36:55
Speaker 1: has not and likely will not happen. But that's a
36:58
Speaker 1: story for another time. But um, like social wise or
37:02
Speaker 1: your family specifically, it was not so much my family,
37:05
Speaker 1: but certainly my peers, my teachers, movies certainly enforced this.
37:12
Speaker 1: So it was like, you know, prom is the short
37:14
Speaker 1: term goal, your wedding is your long term goal. And
37:17
Speaker 1: like both occasions are like something where you get dressed
37:19
Speaker 1: up for there's an elaborate gown, there's a big emphasis
37:22
Speaker 1: on Yeah, the focus is on romance with a man. Traditionally,
37:29
Speaker 1: both our occasions where a woman you know, traditionally may
37:34
Speaker 1: lose her virginity at the end of the night kind
37:36
Speaker 1: of thing. So these were like the things that you're like, oh,
37:38
Speaker 1: as a young woman, like these are the most exciting,
37:41
Speaker 1: the most fun great, best days of your life. I
37:45
Speaker 1: so you're resent at that, Yeah, I just I guess
37:48
Speaker 1: it just bothers me that like not enough emphasis is
37:50
Speaker 1: placed on education or career or like creative pursuits. Is
37:56
Speaker 1: that for you to growing up? I'm because I didn't
37:58
Speaker 1: grow up here, so that was we didn't half problems,
38:00
Speaker 1: so I took care of one thing, one last thing
38:04
Speaker 1: to dread. Um. I have a slightly different perspective on it,
38:07
Speaker 1: where I don't know. I mean, I've been a person
38:10
Speaker 1: who always takes a lot of comfort in rituals, and
38:14
Speaker 1: I went to a big enough high school where I
38:16
Speaker 1: went to like this gigantic inner city high school where
38:19
Speaker 1: prom like it was a deal and like almost everyone went.
38:24
Speaker 1: But I don't mind that proms and weddings exist. I
38:29
Speaker 1: think that there is definitely value in them as an
38:32
Speaker 1: idea and just a value in like coming of age.
38:34
Speaker 1: Social rituals, if you choose to participate in them, can
38:37
Speaker 1: be very valuable for some people. However, I do feel
38:42
Speaker 1: that the fact that yeah, like in media, especially that
38:46
Speaker 1: that is like the forced narrative of in a way
38:51
Speaker 1: that doesn't even really feel that realistic in terms of
38:54
Speaker 1: my life, where I would say I was thinking just
38:57
Speaker 1: as much about graduation as I was about prom like
38:59
Speaker 1: those to be two things that happened close together that
39:02
Speaker 1: we're probably at the time equally important to me. And
39:05
Speaker 1: that was like, that's fine. I don't want anyone to
39:07
Speaker 1: feel bad about wanting to go to a prom or
39:10
Speaker 1: wanting to, you know, go to I mean, I went
39:12
Speaker 1: to four proms, so it's not that I was excusing
39:15
Speaker 1: to go to them, but I just it bugged me that,
39:17
Speaker 1: like there was just so much emphasis placed on that
39:19
Speaker 1: and so little emphasis placed on things that I deemed
39:22
Speaker 1: to be more important, because like I think of how
39:24
Speaker 1: many movies teen movies end and how few movies end
39:29
Speaker 1: in a graduation ceremony with a young woman giving the
39:33
Speaker 1: valedictorian speech. Like even in this movie, even in that sequences,
39:38
Speaker 1: so much time spent on her looking very beautiful, very angelic,
39:41
Speaker 1: the crown is being placed on her. I noticed that
39:44
Speaker 1: Tommy is sort of to the side, Um, so even
39:47
Speaker 1: he seems to like not matter in that moment. It's
39:50
Speaker 1: all about but really her looks and or that is
39:53
Speaker 1: a symbol of acceptance of herself. That's suddenly because whoever
39:56
Speaker 1: has given her this moment, everything's going to be okay,
39:59
Speaker 1: right as if like the fact that she lives with
40:02
Speaker 1: a fucking insane mother and doesn't know she was going
40:05
Speaker 1: to get her period or any of the other stuff
40:07
Speaker 1: and it doesn't matter, and like the movie will like
40:09
Speaker 1: you can tell just by that, Like you're saying how
40:12
Speaker 1: that moment is presented, like this is the everybody moments
40:15
Speaker 1: like yeah something, which I was like, I thought you
40:18
Speaker 1: all hated her. Why are you so excited for her?
40:20
Speaker 1: Except for the coach, the mob mentality and this room
40:24
Speaker 1: is very weird. They're all down for whatever. The bucket
40:27
Speaker 1: fallen on his head and knocking him out. I laughed
40:30
Speaker 1: so much. It's like an empty two pound bucket. It's like,
40:34
Speaker 1: why why is that there is that a backup bucket? Grill?
40:38
Speaker 1: I guess it was because they wanted to figure out
40:40
Speaker 1: if he's not knocked out, can't he try to stop
40:44
Speaker 1: her or help her somehow, So they needed to get
40:47
Speaker 1: him out of the way. Decoy bucket with the slow
40:50
Speaker 1: motion bucket. I do. I totally agree with that you're saying, Kitler,
40:54
Speaker 1: where it's like the way that prom and weddings are
40:58
Speaker 1: portrayed in media are so aspirational and so clearly I
41:03
Speaker 1: mean to sell stuff. Uh, not just to sell you
41:08
Speaker 1: on the idea of like her events, but to literally
41:11
Speaker 1: sell you items. Yeah, I mean I think that this
41:15
Speaker 1: movie that's keeping with its view of women in general.
41:18
Speaker 1: I think that it's like it's also saying, like, well,
41:21
Speaker 1: what would be the most important thing to ever happen
41:24
Speaker 1: to this girl winning prom queen? Because in you know,
41:28
Speaker 1: Stephen King Brian to Palma's eyes, Well, yeah, that's what
41:30
Speaker 1: all teenage girls want, right, So it's just again, it's
41:34
Speaker 1: just like reinforcing this vague idea that no one has
41:38
Speaker 1: asked a woman about at all. And earlier in the movie,
41:42
Speaker 1: Carrie explains to her mother like people think I'm funny,
41:46
Speaker 1: but not in a hey, I'm a hilarious stand up
41:48
Speaker 1: comic kind of way and a people think I'm unusual
41:51
Speaker 1: and weird and alienating kind of way. And she expresses
41:55
Speaker 1: a desire to fit in which I think is is
41:58
Speaker 1: very normal for that age. Yeah, but then they like
42:02
Speaker 1: extend that too. Oh but so she's gonna want to
42:05
Speaker 1: be the prom queen obviously, and and yeah, it is
42:09
Speaker 1: a very male understanding of what a teen girl must want.
42:15
Speaker 1: It literally is. I mean, I think Stephen King was,
42:18
Speaker 1: like I think he's in his mid twenties when he
42:20
Speaker 1: wrote this or something. It was his first published book,
42:23
Speaker 1: but like he's writing how he thinks teenage girls would act,
42:27
Speaker 1: and as a guy ten years older than a teenage
42:30
Speaker 1: girl who has never been a teenage girl. So and
42:33
Speaker 1: I think that that just informs so much about what
42:35
Speaker 1: this did. You guys, as teenagers either partake or witness
42:38
Speaker 1: in that kind of like that kind of like group
42:41
Speaker 1: female bullying. Not that I'm saying that that means it
42:43
Speaker 1: doesn't happen or does, but I'm just curious, because I
42:46
Speaker 1: was really trying. I've had girls and women being mean
42:49
Speaker 1: to me, like one on one, and you know, some
42:52
Speaker 1: like look stuff and ship like that on the street
42:55
Speaker 1: or whatever. But I've never the intense bullion that either
42:58
Speaker 1: I suffered or saw was almost always dudes. Which I'm
43:01
Speaker 1: not saying women didn't do it, but I'm just curious
43:05
Speaker 1: if you guys have witnessed that. I've never seen it
43:07
Speaker 1: in the way it's portrayed in this movie, because it's
43:09
Speaker 1: just in this movie is just violent and baseless, and
43:13
Speaker 1: and and it doesn't stopped. It like goes on and
43:15
Speaker 1: on and on the and then I mean not just
43:18
Speaker 1: in that scene, but then obviously in a long term
43:20
Speaker 1: planning kind of way. Yeah, I've never seen a universal
43:25
Speaker 1: hatred of a single person the way that people hate Carrie.
43:29
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think when I was picked on
43:30
Speaker 1: in like middle school in high school would be like
43:32
Speaker 1: small groups uh same, yeah, like maybe just a small
43:37
Speaker 1: small group of you know, four or five people would
43:39
Speaker 1: be like, hey, she sucks, right, let's go funk with
43:42
Speaker 1: this one. Right. Yeah. I I've never seen it or
43:45
Speaker 1: experienced it anywhere close to how it's represented in this movie.
43:49
Speaker 1: Do you guys think it's it's a fear of periods
43:52
Speaker 1: as well? Like I thought about that a lot because
43:54
Speaker 1: her mother fears it hasn't told her about it. But
43:57
Speaker 1: then there's also again if the girls are actually the guys,
44:00
Speaker 1: Like I kept thinking, why are you scared of that?
44:02
Speaker 1: It's well, you know, women come not just into their
44:05
Speaker 1: so called womanhood, but really it's your ability to bear children, right,
44:09
Speaker 1: And maybe that's what is also scary to two men
44:12
Speaker 1: about it that like now you can't just like fuck
44:14
Speaker 1: them in discriminately. There might be a child involved in it, Like,
44:18
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's says I see that. I mean,
44:20
Speaker 1: it's like the fact that in this movie, the cause
44:24
Speaker 1: and effect is like she gets her period, now she
44:27
Speaker 1: can do evil things. And then just like I guess
44:31
Speaker 1: that's what brought that on, because it's never hinted that
44:33
Speaker 1: she she didn't have this power before. It doesn't seem
44:35
Speaker 1: that way because it starts with the light bulb and
44:37
Speaker 1: even she doesn't really seem to know what's going on.
44:39
Speaker 1: It's the power of life and death. I guess like
44:42
Speaker 1: comes with her period, right, Yeah, like she has. I
44:45
Speaker 1: would have liked that if I had gone to my
44:46
Speaker 1: period and come canny whatever it's called you kinetic. Well,
44:51
Speaker 1: this is and and just because we just watched Teeth yesterday,
44:55
Speaker 1: this is where the girlfriend Teeth succeeds. Where Carrie does
44:59
Speaker 1: not succeed is she learn it is to harness and
45:00
Speaker 1: control her power. And then where Carrie it seems like
45:05
Speaker 1: and this is probably a more realistic read of a
45:08
Speaker 1: teenage girl one way that I found. It's like she
45:10
Speaker 1: suddenly has this new thing happened to her, and she
45:13
Speaker 1: doesn't quite understand it yet. And she doesn't quite know
45:15
Speaker 1: how to control it. That I think is realistic. What
45:19
Speaker 1: I don't think is realistic is that it means you
45:21
Speaker 1: are going to hell and everyone dies. But you know, right, yeah,
45:25
Speaker 1: the ending of this movie. Sometimes periods feel like that
45:29
Speaker 1: that I have felt that way, like locking myself in
45:32
Speaker 1: a closet as my house just sends to hell. But
45:35
Speaker 1: I don't know that Stephen King or Brian Opauma knew that.
45:38
Speaker 1: But I mean there's I thought you bleed with you.
45:41
Speaker 1: And there's also that hilarious scene after in the in
45:44
Speaker 1: the Whoever he is the headmaster's office with the coach
45:47
Speaker 1: where also she's smoking, which I love and more in
45:50
Speaker 1: short shorts, and and they talked quite openly about periods
45:53
Speaker 1: in a way that I also, well, the headmaster cannot
45:56
Speaker 1: say the word, he cannot even he like really skirts
45:59
Speaker 1: around the issue. But then he's like, who would have
46:02
Speaker 1: thought that this term? And age like a young girl
46:04
Speaker 1: wouldn't know about anything, which again is like a veiled
46:07
Speaker 1: like slut shaming. Uh. And then her her mother, whenever
46:12
Speaker 1: she finds out that carry has gotten her period says
46:15
Speaker 1: something like, if you hadn't sinned, the curse of blood
46:19
Speaker 1: would never come upon you. And right, I'm like, like,
46:21
Speaker 1: you don't have it? Like, right, are we meant to
46:24
Speaker 1: believe that her mother is not menstruating? But that's I mean,
46:27
Speaker 1: but the mother is insane. But I actually I remembered
46:30
Speaker 1: my mother telling me years ago, I'm from Spain, I
46:33
Speaker 1: was born and grew up there, and I know this
46:35
Speaker 1: isn't the only country where that happens, but that when
46:37
Speaker 1: she first got her period, my mom and told her
46:39
Speaker 1: mother that her mother slapped her. And that was a
46:42
Speaker 1: very common thing to do because it was it was
46:45
Speaker 1: equated with original sin, which they do in this movie too,
46:48
Speaker 1: which again is so fucked up. So like original sin,
46:51
Speaker 1: being knowledge means that we were cursed by having periods.
46:55
Speaker 1: So therefore, like the welcoming into womanhood was a slap
46:59
Speaker 1: in the face, which is pretty tremendous. My mom had
47:02
Speaker 1: a similar experience where she wasn't hit, but she was
47:07
Speaker 1: made to feel very bad when she first got her
47:09
Speaker 1: period by her mom. Yeah, it's like a generational code switch,
47:13
Speaker 1: which and I think that there's like probably something between
47:16
Speaker 1: carry and and most of us, you know, grew up
47:19
Speaker 1: generations after this and weren't quite steeped in this carry verse,
47:24
Speaker 1: where so much emphasis is put on this stuff. But yeah,
47:27
Speaker 1: I just thought I should myself. I just thought I
47:31
Speaker 1: should myself. When I got my period the first time
47:33
Speaker 1: and I didn't say anything for days, I'm like, I
47:37
Speaker 1: can't stop shooting. Yeah, And then like two days later
47:41
Speaker 1: my mom was like, is everything okay? I was just
47:43
Speaker 1: acting weird? She told you about it prior to this
47:46
Speaker 1: or no, no, she thought that, well she I don't know.
47:49
Speaker 1: I think I must have known it existed, but I
47:52
Speaker 1: never got sex said in school and it happened to me. Yeah, Well,
47:57
Speaker 1: here you think are the implicated ations of this or
48:01
Speaker 1: like people's like subconscious reaction to this, which is like,
48:04
Speaker 1: oh my daughter or this you know, this young girl
48:08
Speaker 1: is becoming a woman. That means she's probably going to
48:11
Speaker 1: start having sex soon and that's bad and that's impure
48:14
Speaker 1: and that's evil and that you know, very like I
48:17
Speaker 1: think there's very slot shamy implications to this reaction. And
48:20
Speaker 1: that's another maybe generation thing where for Carrie's generation at least,
48:25
Speaker 1: it's implied in the context of this story that the
48:29
Speaker 1: symbolism of it is like that she is now a
48:32
Speaker 1: woman who is you know, like somehow more dangerous. She's
48:37
Speaker 1: able to carry a child now, where by the time
48:39
Speaker 1: I was getting a talk about when I finally was like, hey,
48:42
Speaker 1: maybe this isn't ship my my, my mom, and all
48:46
Speaker 1: my friends sort of more closely associated getting your period
48:50
Speaker 1: with the beginning of puberty as opposed to like childbearing
48:54
Speaker 1: or anything like that. Like we were just like, oh
48:56
Speaker 1: my god, I got my period. That means maybe I'll
48:58
Speaker 1: get boobs soon. For of us, that just never happened.
49:02
Speaker 1: But like, but yeah, like you should have massaged them
49:05
Speaker 1: with soap like carry does in a movie, Like just
49:08
Speaker 1: broke to myself in a public shower. Maybe that would
49:10
Speaker 1: just eggamon. I don't know. Yeah, so much to to
49:13
Speaker 1: unpack with this movie. We just we just did a
49:16
Speaker 1: tight twenty minutes on period blood alone, and it's various
49:20
Speaker 1: interpretations in this movie. Let's take a quick break and
49:24
Speaker 1: then we'll be back for more cool and we're back. Um,
49:33
Speaker 1: there's still a few key characters we haven't really gotten
49:35
Speaker 1: to discuss at length yet, which are Carrie's mom and
49:39
Speaker 1: Carrie's coach at school. The coach character, it was really
49:44
Speaker 1: interesting to me. This was not a character I was
49:47
Speaker 1: familiar with going into I knew the Mom. I knew
49:51
Speaker 1: that there was like a villainous girl who pours pig
49:55
Speaker 1: blood on carry. I didn't know about Sue. I didn't
49:57
Speaker 1: know about the Coach, And they would ended up being
49:59
Speaker 1: to the for me, like the most thought provoking characters
50:03
Speaker 1: because they exist in this in between space where I
50:07
Speaker 1: don't know, like, I saw more of myself in characters
50:11
Speaker 1: like that than any of the you know, anyone on
50:13
Speaker 1: the cartoonish end of the more of yourself on the
50:16
Speaker 1: in the Coach, not in the Coach, mostly in in Sue.
50:20
Speaker 1: But let's talk about the Coach with its coach ms Collins.
50:24
Speaker 1: Ms Collins, She's, yeah, the fizz ed teacher. And because
50:28
Speaker 1: there are I would say four main relationships that Carrie
50:33
Speaker 1: has with other women, and I would say two of
50:36
Speaker 1: them are fall on the positive end of the spectrum.
50:38
Speaker 1: I wouldn't necessarily call them positive relationships, but they're more
50:41
Speaker 1: on that end of the spectrum. And then the two
50:44
Speaker 1: very negative relationships on that end of the spectrum is
50:47
Speaker 1: her mother and Chris are the negative ones, and Coach
50:51
Speaker 1: are the positive ones. Yeah, And it's interesting because it's
50:54
Speaker 1: for the most part, her relationship with Sue kind of
50:57
Speaker 1: plays out unbeknownst to her. Yeah, they never relate to
51:00
Speaker 1: one another. No, it's like everything that's happening between them,
51:04
Speaker 1: Carrie doesn't even I don't think she ever finds out
51:07
Speaker 1: about really, which isn't because she even says, I know,
51:10
Speaker 1: you know Tommy asked me, but they're just making fun
51:12
Speaker 1: of me because I know she goes with like he
51:14
Speaker 1: doesn't even say her name, because Sue does run with
51:18
Speaker 1: the mean girls, and we see there's like one point
51:20
Speaker 1: when they're at like Jim detention. I know, is that
51:24
Speaker 1: needlessly long male gazey scene of all their bodies doing
51:27
Speaker 1: jumping jacks and really crazy like electronic music that is
51:31
Speaker 1: so totally that whole scene a minute and a half long.
51:34
Speaker 1: Why the total inconsistencies of that scene are wild six comes.
51:41
Speaker 1: It's true there is like one moment more slapping in
51:43
Speaker 1: that scene too. There is more slapping in that scene
51:46
Speaker 1: because female and female violence coins be slapping in this scene.
51:50
Speaker 1: I just I'm baffled by ms Collins. I mean, I
51:53
Speaker 1: don't have. By the way, also to give context to
51:56
Speaker 1: the young ones as the as the resident old person
51:58
Speaker 1: in the house, this character, until I'm sure very recently
52:02
Speaker 1: was almost always referred to as the lesbian like. The
52:05
Speaker 1: assumption was always that she was in love and wanted
52:09
Speaker 1: Carrie and that that's why. I mean, I know I've
52:12
Speaker 1: heard that so many times, which I remembered watching it.
52:14
Speaker 1: I was like, do you hence why she's so unhappy?
52:17
Speaker 1: Do you think that that is what the story is
52:19
Speaker 1: implying or is that just what people thought? I didn't that,
52:22
Speaker 1: I mean, certainly what people thought. I don't know. Again,
52:24
Speaker 1: it was also before my time, although I saw it
52:27
Speaker 1: earlier than you guys, So I don't know if that
52:29
Speaker 1: would have been immediately assumed at the time in a
52:32
Speaker 1: way that it is. And now, yeah, there is like
52:35
Speaker 1: a trope of women gym teachers and coaches in media
52:40
Speaker 1: that they seem to present us being fairly but all
52:43
Speaker 1: the way up to Glee, that's why she's always Yeah,
52:45
Speaker 1: she's always exercising, she's smoking and wearing short shorts and
52:49
Speaker 1: making the girls do it and slapping them around. And
52:52
Speaker 1: also in another baffling scene, she seems to be upset
52:56
Speaker 1: at who they're going to the prom with. Remember when
52:58
Speaker 1: she asked them, boy, who's taking you to prom? And
53:01
Speaker 1: she's like tell me, and she gets like teary eyed
53:04
Speaker 1: to invested, which I don't understand. I was like, is
53:07
Speaker 1: she into the guys or did she not get taken
53:09
Speaker 1: to prom? But then I don't. I mean, I found
53:12
Speaker 1: her as a character very baffling. I didn't understand. Like
53:15
Speaker 1: hearing that does help me a little if that is
53:19
Speaker 1: what the story is supposed to be implying, even like
53:22
Speaker 1: sub textually, yeah, because she is like a character who
53:27
Speaker 1: at some points or like I know what she's doing,
53:29
Speaker 1: and other points you're like, where is she going with this? Really?
53:32
Speaker 1: Not sure? Right? Because the first scene we see her
53:36
Speaker 1: in is when she's coming to console Carrie after she's
53:39
Speaker 1: been violently bullied, but she slaps her first, but she
53:43
Speaker 1: slaps her and then she tells that slapping that lady. Yeah,
53:47
Speaker 1: She's like, get a calm down and get a hold
53:48
Speaker 1: of yourself, and then she apologizes and she says sorry,
53:51
Speaker 1: I didn't know Carrie, and then she comforts her. And
53:54
Speaker 1: then there's that scene where she talked where Ms. Collins
53:56
Speaker 1: talks to the principle and she's like, I really identified
54:00
Speaker 1: with the girls because I just wanted to shake her
54:01
Speaker 1: and be like, don't you know what a period is?
54:03
Speaker 1: So she's like, but then later on she punishes all
54:07
Speaker 1: the women who were bullying her and wants to ban
54:12
Speaker 1: them all from prom, and you know, she gives them
54:14
Speaker 1: all detention to everything like that. You know, she's like,
54:16
Speaker 1: didn't you stop to think of carry had feelings? So
54:18
Speaker 1: she's advocating for Carrie. Then she finds out that she's
54:22
Speaker 1: been asked to prom. She's like, oh, you know, you
54:24
Speaker 1: need to change her attitude about yourself. Just put on
54:27
Speaker 1: some mess scare and some lipstick. The part in the
54:31
Speaker 1: Coach that I recognized again, it's like there's a few
54:35
Speaker 1: the few characters who are the closest things we have
54:37
Speaker 1: two allies to carry are people who have at least
54:41
Speaker 1: good intentions, but that doesn't mean they really do her
54:45
Speaker 1: any good. And certainly the only one who shows her
54:48
Speaker 1: real kindness absolutely to her face. Yeah, and it's but
54:51
Speaker 1: the thing with the teacher is like, and this is
54:54
Speaker 1: something like I remember from being younger of a teacher
54:57
Speaker 1: who is like, yeah, you're weird, and like a teacher
55:02
Speaker 1: who genuinely wants your life to be better, but the
55:05
Speaker 1: only way they know of to make your life better
55:09
Speaker 1: is to be like, so just be normal, Like why
55:12
Speaker 1: can't like do normal stuff and then people will like you,
55:15
Speaker 1: which is I don't think a good message to send
55:18
Speaker 1: a young girl at all, but I understand why she's
55:22
Speaker 1: saying it, and I and it seems clear that she's
55:24
Speaker 1: trying to do a good thing. She wants Carrie's life
55:27
Speaker 1: to be easier, but doesn't really care if that comes
55:30
Speaker 1: at the sacrifice of like Carrie being herself. Also, I
55:33
Speaker 1: guess no one. I also found it really interesting that
55:36
Speaker 1: no one ever brings up I mean, even in that
55:37
Speaker 1: conversation where they're like, it's so weird that she doesn't
55:40
Speaker 1: know about periods that they just blame Carrie that. And
55:43
Speaker 1: I know there's a phone call to the house that
55:45
Speaker 1: we don't hear informing the mother that Carrie has gotten
55:48
Speaker 1: her period, but like why nobody thinks to investigate or
55:53
Speaker 1: or well, it does kind of get explained away by
55:56
Speaker 1: the principle when he's just like, oh, well, I guess
55:58
Speaker 1: we shouldn't be surprised knowing that mother or of hers,
56:00
Speaker 1: But yeah, nothing further than that gets lord to me.
56:04
Speaker 1: Was also something that was really sad in this one
56:06
Speaker 1: and that I definitely identified with in the first viewing,
56:09
Speaker 1: and even now that so often kids who are abused
56:13
Speaker 1: end up being blamed themselves for their behavior, and nobody
56:16
Speaker 1: questions why it's there, you know, and nothing is really
56:20
Speaker 1: done right, Like you have a sixteen year l seventeen
56:23
Speaker 1: year old who's getting her period and it's horrified and
56:25
Speaker 1: doesn't know like something's up. You know. Well, I think
56:29
Speaker 1: that the and the way that that's like kind of
56:30
Speaker 1: cast off is like by introducing another kind of malleable,
56:36
Speaker 1: incompetent male character, the principle who can't even remember carry's name,
56:40
Speaker 1: much less actually do anything to be helpful. Um, every
56:45
Speaker 1: time something like that happened, and she showed in this
56:47
Speaker 1: case she flips his ashtray and breaks it. I really
56:50
Speaker 1: wish I could do that in those instances where like
56:53
Speaker 1: men don't listen or say my name wrong or anything
56:57
Speaker 1: like that. Like I wish I could just flip an
56:59
Speaker 1: ashtray or close a window or like throw a bucket
57:04
Speaker 1: on their face or something, and then like, I don't
57:06
Speaker 1: need to do anything else. I'm not going to kill
57:08
Speaker 1: you and jostle your step of that aspect of it. Again,
57:12
Speaker 1: I thought, did you guys feel her power at all? Eventually?
57:14
Speaker 1: Even if she's killing everybody, Like, did you feel like yeah,
57:17
Speaker 1: girl or no, well yeah, but I have some complicated
57:22
Speaker 1: feelings about this. I wanted to read a quote from
57:24
Speaker 1: what Stephen King said about his book Carrie. He says,
57:29
Speaker 1: Carrie is largely about how women find their own channels
57:32
Speaker 1: of power, but also what men fear about women and
57:35
Speaker 1: women's sexuality. Writing the book in nineteen seventy three and
57:38
Speaker 1: only three years out of college, I was fully aware
57:41
Speaker 1: of what women's liberation implied for me and others of
57:44
Speaker 1: my sex. Carry is woman feeling her powers for the
57:48
Speaker 1: first time, and like Sampson, pulling down the temple on
57:52
Speaker 1: everyone in sight at the end of the book. So
57:54
Speaker 1: he sees this character as a very empowered woman who's
57:59
Speaker 1: coming into her own and die. That's the thing. So
58:04
Speaker 1: there are a lot of female empowerment stories. Well they're
58:08
Speaker 1: not a lot of those stories, but of the female
58:10
Speaker 1: empowerment stories that are available to us, a lot of
58:14
Speaker 1: them are about a woman being wronged then they enact revenge,
58:19
Speaker 1: often violently. Um, we see this in this movie. We
58:23
Speaker 1: see it and kill Bill Selman, Louise mad Max Fury Road,
58:27
Speaker 1: Legend of Billy Jean, the Teeth episode that we have
58:30
Speaker 1: coming out, We talked about that, and I would say
58:32
Speaker 1: there's a huge shortage of women empowerment stories where we
58:36
Speaker 1: just get to see women being awesome without either having
58:39
Speaker 1: to be the victims of of a bad thing that
58:41
Speaker 1: happened to them and or like just not having to
58:45
Speaker 1: seek revenge on someone. They're just cool and good at
58:48
Speaker 1: something and they're empowered that way. And then with Carrie
58:53
Speaker 1: at the end, she's essentially punished for being empowered and
58:57
Speaker 1: coming into her own because then she dies. So it's
59:03
Speaker 1: you can see this as a female empowerment story, but
59:06
Speaker 1: how empowered really is she at the end when her
59:09
Speaker 1: house collapses on her? Right? I mean, I think I
59:13
Speaker 1: definitely ladge onto the catharsis of let it fucking burn sometimes,
59:18
Speaker 1: where obviously what Kerry does is not a real world solution,
59:23
Speaker 1: but I think it is representative of you know, I mean,
59:29
Speaker 1: it certainly sounds like Stephen King is basically copying to,
59:32
Speaker 1: like kind of openly coping to Like, Yeah, woman who's
59:35
Speaker 1: fully in control of her powers and abilities is scary
59:40
Speaker 1: to people, especially at this point in history. I don't know.
59:43
Speaker 1: I mean, again, it's like there is a part of
59:48
Speaker 1: any abused woman or person I'd imagine that has this
59:53
Speaker 1: fantasy of like let it burn, and it's almost like
59:56
Speaker 1: cleansing by fire, of like I've been wronged, I'm angry
1:00:02
Speaker 1: and fuck you guys, and and you know, so I
1:00:06
Speaker 1: see I think it's yeah, And to your point earlier,
1:00:09
Speaker 1: I think I hear you because sometimes I'm like, you know,
1:00:11
Speaker 1: and I have this issue in my own movie too
1:00:14
Speaker 1: that some women have criticized of like because she's a
1:00:16
Speaker 1: survivor as well in the film, and there's an element
1:00:19
Speaker 1: of you know, she burns down an entire jam with
1:00:21
Speaker 1: her telekinetic powers, right, I mean, you know, but but
1:00:28
Speaker 1: um so I get it. But I think sadly where
1:00:30
Speaker 1: we are right now so much of our narrative because
1:00:33
Speaker 1: you know that empowerment means you're overcoming some horrible thing
1:00:37
Speaker 1: that happened to you. I know that that's not true
1:00:39
Speaker 1: for every woman. And I'm also thinking, as a filmmaker,
1:00:42
Speaker 1: I don't know how you make that dramatic. I think
1:00:44
Speaker 1: the then the other stories become movies where like women
1:00:47
Speaker 1: are interesting, flawed, powerful, week all of the above, just
1:00:52
Speaker 1: like men are often treated that have nothing to do
1:00:54
Speaker 1: with whether they're righting or wrong or not right. So
1:00:56
Speaker 1: like I love terms of endearment or those kinds of
1:00:59
Speaker 1: films where it's like, well, nothing horrendous happened to anybody
1:01:02
Speaker 1: in there. They're just interesting and funked up characters and
1:01:05
Speaker 1: and equally so men and women, which I think is
1:01:09
Speaker 1: a really positive thing. But I don't know what I
1:01:12
Speaker 1: was thinking, Like, what's the empowerment, Like is it Beyonce
1:01:14
Speaker 1: at the super Bowl or a Coachella like, And you know,
1:01:17
Speaker 1: I don't know what's happened in her without corporate sponsorships.
1:01:21
Speaker 1: I suppose it doesn't even have to be especially empowering.
1:01:24
Speaker 1: But the thing about us seeing women's stories is because
1:01:28
Speaker 1: there are not nearly enough of them. Just seeing a
1:01:32
Speaker 1: woman doing cool things instead of having a specific goal
1:01:35
Speaker 1: and setting out to accomplish it and then succeeding in
1:01:38
Speaker 1: that would just be empowering because we see so little
1:01:41
Speaker 1: of that in media currently. I think that there's room
1:01:45
Speaker 1: for both, though, oh sure, sure, I think that there
1:01:49
Speaker 1: there's an except I don't even know if an excess,
1:01:52
Speaker 1: but there's a shortage of women being able to like
1:01:56
Speaker 1: live their lives and have goals and accomplish them in
1:02:00
Speaker 1: stories in a fun way that doesn't involve her having
1:02:05
Speaker 1: to die at the end. I don't know, but yeah,
1:02:07
Speaker 1: well that's something I wanted to talk about, was like,
1:02:09
Speaker 1: where where does the movie fall on Carrie, because we're
1:02:14
Speaker 1: and again I'm sure I can I can see it already.
1:02:17
Speaker 1: I can see our Twitter feed with people being like
1:02:20
Speaker 1: in the book, We're being straight with you, we have
1:02:23
Speaker 1: not read the book. This is not podcast about books.
1:02:25
Speaker 1: So what we're talking about right now Bookheads is how
1:02:30
Speaker 1: it appears in the movie and what the adaptation is
1:02:32
Speaker 1: in the movie. For what I could tell, the movie,
1:02:35
Speaker 1: it has a very inconsistent stance on Carrie, where there
1:02:39
Speaker 1: are some moments where it's so clear it's like, yes,
1:02:42
Speaker 1: she is suffering, she's being abused, and you know, it's
1:02:45
Speaker 1: like you want to help her and you want people
1:02:48
Speaker 1: there to be doing more to help her. But then
1:02:50
Speaker 1: in the end sequence, you know, she kills everyone, and
1:02:53
Speaker 1: then we're like, this isn't good, including her own mother,
1:02:56
Speaker 1: who who is the source of as far as we know,
1:03:00
Speaker 1: or you know where her pain is coming from, which
1:03:03
Speaker 1: you know it's horrendous as that is, I kind of
1:03:05
Speaker 1: justify in the in the idea of the movie, you're like, Okay,
1:03:09
Speaker 1: this horrendous thing happened though she's killed everybody. Now she's
1:03:12
Speaker 1: gonna you know, she washes herself and then you know,
1:03:15
Speaker 1: her mother tries to kill her, and then she kills her.
1:03:18
Speaker 1: But then even in that there seems to be like
1:03:21
Speaker 1: an what's it called the macino or where that? Like?
1:03:26
Speaker 1: Where is this house going to? And where what does
1:03:28
Speaker 1: that have to do with killing tenetic powers? And what
1:03:32
Speaker 1: does that mean about how like the story feels about her?
1:03:35
Speaker 1: And then she also once again seems to be feel
1:03:38
Speaker 1: bad that she killed her mother, but it's punished for
1:03:40
Speaker 1: it anyway, which again I also think brings up a
1:03:42
Speaker 1: question of justification. It's like, should you, you know, be
1:03:45
Speaker 1: allowed to defend yourself against your abuse or like this
1:03:47
Speaker 1: woman was about to kill her right, so yeah, I
1:03:50
Speaker 1: mean I think you've had that gone to court Carrie has. Yeah,
1:03:55
Speaker 1: well the thing that makes it but it makes it
1:03:58
Speaker 1: so sad that you know, again, as someone who who's
1:04:01
Speaker 1: been through a lot of that, I felt, you know,
1:04:03
Speaker 1: I recognized that so many abused kids often want to
1:04:07
Speaker 1: defend themselves but then fall prey to the same behavior.
1:04:10
Speaker 1: So like when she hugs the mother and hides in
1:04:12
Speaker 1: the closet with her I found that extremely sad and
1:04:16
Speaker 1: in a weird way realistic, you know, even if we're
1:04:18
Speaker 1: suspending belief about everything else that's happening in the in
1:04:22
Speaker 1: the movie, and so it may mean incredibly sad to
1:04:24
Speaker 1: then be like these are one and the same, like
1:04:26
Speaker 1: let's just take them down. And then the sign that
1:04:29
Speaker 1: says she lives in hell, I'm like, why, you know, yeah,
1:04:33
Speaker 1: And maybe it's supposed to be open ended in ambiguous
1:04:37
Speaker 1: and we're all supposed to decide how we feel about
1:04:39
Speaker 1: this character. But it's like, we see her kill all
1:04:42
Speaker 1: her students, You're like, but then we understand why to
1:04:46
Speaker 1: an extent, and then she doesn't kill anyone without some
1:04:50
Speaker 1: cause her mother is literally trying to kill her. So yeah,
1:04:54
Speaker 1: she gets killed, but but Carrie feels immediate remorse for this.
1:04:58
Speaker 1: She clearly had love for her mother because you know,
1:05:00
Speaker 1: in the scene before, she's like begging her mother to
1:05:03
Speaker 1: just hold her and be there for her, and her
1:05:05
Speaker 1: mom can't do that for her. So it's it is
1:05:07
Speaker 1: also never never approached why the mother is the way
1:05:10
Speaker 1: that she is, you know. Yeah, And and then the
1:05:13
Speaker 1: house goes to these things don't come out of nowhere,
1:05:16
Speaker 1: you know, And then the movie ends on what I
1:05:19
Speaker 1: thought was like a note of empathy for Carrie, of
1:05:22
Speaker 1: like she never did anything wrong, and you know, look
1:05:26
Speaker 1: what happened to her, and now everyone is dead and
1:05:29
Speaker 1: Sue comes up with the flowers and it's like, okay,
1:05:31
Speaker 1: so this is where the virginal she's dressed in white flowers.
1:05:36
Speaker 1: And then it's like, yeah, the angel comes to bring
1:05:38
Speaker 1: the flowers to Carrie, who's whatever, and and you were like, okay,
1:05:42
Speaker 1: so this that made sense to me as an ending.
1:05:44
Speaker 1: But then it's like no, she's at hell and the
1:05:47
Speaker 1: hand reaches out and you're just like where what it was? Confused?
1:05:53
Speaker 1: The ending almost felt to me like it might have
1:05:55
Speaker 1: been I don't remember how he made this movie, but
1:05:57
Speaker 1: it could have been like studio notes, like yeah, you know,
1:06:00
Speaker 1: one last jump scared I did. I did jump at
1:06:03
Speaker 1: the thought it was ending. I want to talk about
1:06:07
Speaker 1: a few scenes that are I would say less open
1:06:10
Speaker 1: to interpretation because they're pretty clearly bad. Uh way. And
1:06:15
Speaker 1: that is the scene where Tommy Ross asks Carrie to
1:06:20
Speaker 1: prom It happens twice the first time there in the library.
1:06:24
Speaker 1: He's like, hey, do I want to go to prom?
1:06:26
Speaker 1: And she runs away. She books it out of there,
1:06:31
Speaker 1: no pun intended because they're in a library, So we
1:06:34
Speaker 1: interpret that to be a hard now. Yeah, that's I
1:06:37
Speaker 1: would say, that's a hard now. And then the aftermath
1:06:40
Speaker 1: of that is, you know, Carrie is processing this information.
1:06:43
Speaker 1: She seems upset because she thinks, as she explains to
1:06:48
Speaker 1: Ms Collins, that he and his pals are playing a
1:06:51
Speaker 1: trick on her, and Ms Collins like, no, you know,
1:06:54
Speaker 1: I think it's just that you're not confident enough, so
1:06:56
Speaker 1: put on some makeup and you'll be fine. So then
1:07:00
Speaker 1: second time is when Tommy goes to Carrie's house uninvited,
1:07:04
Speaker 1: shows up at her front door. He mentions prom again.
1:07:08
Speaker 1: She's like, I already told you. He's know nothing I
1:07:10
Speaker 1: can say to change your mind. Girls do it all
1:07:12
Speaker 1: the time because you know, girls be fickle. Um, she says,
1:07:16
Speaker 1: why are you doing this? So she's not as naive
1:07:18
Speaker 1: as I think most audiences interpretation of Carrie usually is,
1:07:22
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, she's rightfully paradided. Everyone's with her
1:07:25
Speaker 1: because everyone coach says that earlier. She's like, we're not
1:07:28
Speaker 1: as stupid as you think we are. And now there's
1:07:30
Speaker 1: a renovation behind you, right, So she says why are
1:07:33
Speaker 1: you doing this? And he says because I want to.
1:07:34
Speaker 1: She says I can't. He says, yes you can. She
1:07:38
Speaker 1: says you better go, not till you say yes. He says,
1:07:42
Speaker 1: She says no, I can't. Yes you can. She says again,
1:07:47
Speaker 1: I said I can't. He says again, yes you can't.
1:07:50
Speaker 1: Will you please? And as she says will you please go,
1:07:53
Speaker 1: she's telling him to leave, he says not till you
1:07:56
Speaker 1: say yes. He repeats that line. She's says why is
1:08:00
Speaker 1: this so important to you? And he's like, oh, because
1:08:03
Speaker 1: you liked my poem? And then finally he has worn
1:08:06
Speaker 1: her down. This is like the scene in the Notebook
1:08:08
Speaker 1: where he's like, I read the dune to kill myself
1:08:11
Speaker 1: unless you go down, yeah, and then like oh, jomp
1:08:17
Speaker 1: if you don't got a prom with me, like ye,
1:08:19
Speaker 1: So um, it's not quite that, but it's him asking
1:08:23
Speaker 1: her over and over saying I'm not going to leave
1:08:26
Speaker 1: until you say yes, and finally she says yes, but
1:08:30
Speaker 1: only it's after he's worn her down five So yeah.
1:08:37
Speaker 1: The the implications of this are upsetting and then uh
1:08:41
Speaker 1: and also because as the audience, we know she I
1:08:43
Speaker 1: actually think she probably does want to say yes. And
1:08:45
Speaker 1: would like to go, but has a very clear reason
1:08:49
Speaker 1: why she can't because her fucking psychotic mother will try
1:08:53
Speaker 1: to stab her. So had Tommy just stopped forcing the
1:08:58
Speaker 1: issue and not like, you know, done this whole like
1:09:02
Speaker 1: very typical movie. I'm not going to leave you alone
1:09:05
Speaker 1: until you do what I want. You know, we could
1:09:07
Speaker 1: have a lot of lives. Could have been saying, can
1:09:09
Speaker 1: you blame it on on on her loving poetry or
1:09:13
Speaker 1: on him writing poetry? I think, yeah, Like maybe the
1:09:16
Speaker 1: moral of the story is that boy shouldn't write. Don't
1:09:19
Speaker 1: you didn't even stop promoting male? Oh I still I
1:09:22
Speaker 1: played yourrized, So he does because I thought the whole
1:09:25
Speaker 1: thing was that it was his and she says it's
1:09:27
Speaker 1: so beautiful, and then the fucking male teacher also makes
1:09:29
Speaker 1: fun of her. I know that was that was over.
1:09:32
Speaker 1: I was like, would someone truly that sound beautiful? I think?
1:09:35
Speaker 1: And he keeps looking at the coach to remember and
1:09:38
Speaker 1: the yeah, yeah, I read that. I was like a
1:09:42
Speaker 1: lot of really strange characters in this. Well. Another troubling
1:09:46
Speaker 1: moment happens a little bit later, when Tommy and Carrie
1:09:49
Speaker 1: are at prom and he's like, come on, dance and
1:09:52
Speaker 1: She's like, I can't I know what, I don't know how.
1:09:54
Speaker 1: He's like, don't do it. So she reluctantly agrees, and
1:09:58
Speaker 1: I start dancing, and then he tries to a surprise kiss,
1:10:00
Speaker 1: or he goes in for a surprise kiss. She pulls
1:10:03
Speaker 1: away and then immediately starts apologizing, and he's like, no,
1:10:07
Speaker 1: it's okay, and she's like, no, I don't know how
1:10:09
Speaker 1: to do anything. I can't do anything. I don't know
1:10:11
Speaker 1: how to dance, and I don't know how to kiss
1:10:13
Speaker 1: is what she is implying, and then he kisses her. Basically,
1:10:18
Speaker 1: what is dangerous about this is that it sends the
1:10:21
Speaker 1: message that if at first a woman says no or
1:10:24
Speaker 1: rebuffs a man's advance. I mean, we talked about this
1:10:26
Speaker 1: all the time. It's yeah, it's like, it's not because
1:10:29
Speaker 1: she doesn't want to. It's because she's shy, or she's
1:10:32
Speaker 1: unsure of herself, or she's not confident enough, and you
1:10:35
Speaker 1: just got to go for build her confidence. And people
1:10:39
Speaker 1: now ask if it's okay to kiss all the time?
1:10:41
Speaker 1: Is this the norm? I do it. I the rare
1:10:45
Speaker 1: times that I've kissed anyone, I'll be like, hey, should
1:10:49
Speaker 1: we make out? And then I've found it's weird in
1:10:52
Speaker 1: the past couple of years. That is sort of now
1:10:55
Speaker 1: at this point as as a sometimes kisser people, Yeah,
1:11:00
Speaker 1: usually people be like is this cool, and then wow,
1:11:04
Speaker 1: that's really different. Yeah. I think that that is like
1:11:06
Speaker 1: a change. I mean even in like my own romantic experience,
1:11:09
Speaker 1: that that is a shift that's taken place in the
1:11:11
Speaker 1: past couple of years. I'm personally for it. I think
1:11:13
Speaker 1: it's fun. There's for fun banter before kissing. You're just
1:11:16
Speaker 1: like you're just like, nope, just get it. And even
1:11:19
Speaker 1: if there's not a fun treating, well no, I mean
1:11:22
Speaker 1: that was the thing that I always remember when I
1:11:24
Speaker 1: was very young, so we were kids, but this kid
1:11:26
Speaker 1: that I kind of liked was like, can I kiss you?
1:11:29
Speaker 1: And I thought, oh, I was he asking, Like I
1:11:31
Speaker 1: felt like I was giving like every signal in the
1:11:34
Speaker 1: book to be kiss But again, then I've had it
1:11:36
Speaker 1: both ways, you know, so it's like if it's something
1:11:38
Speaker 1: you want, which I feel like, oh, I'm putting out
1:11:40
Speaker 1: those vibes and and I feel like I'm reading them
1:11:43
Speaker 1: the same way, then it's great when it happens and
1:11:46
Speaker 1: like nothing gets said because it feels like you're finally
1:11:48
Speaker 1: both agreeing to it. But then I've also had a
1:11:50
Speaker 1: lot of dudes kissed me when I want them, not
1:11:52
Speaker 1: want to be kissing. So I think that that is,
1:11:55
Speaker 1: you know, a cultural moment thing where everyone is just
1:11:58
Speaker 1: reevaluating that like anything, because it's it's not to say
1:12:03
Speaker 1: that every kiss that's taken place without you know, a
1:12:06
Speaker 1: brief conversation before it takes place is not consensual. But
1:12:10
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I think it's just like
1:12:12
Speaker 1: right now, we're in a place culturally where it's just
1:12:16
Speaker 1: become clear that everyone, depending on who they are, with
1:12:20
Speaker 1: their background is what privilege or lack of privilege they've
1:12:24
Speaker 1: come to be with, has a different idea of what
1:12:28
Speaker 1: being on the same page is. And so that's why
1:12:31
Speaker 1: these conversations are happening. And yeah, I mean, what's his face?
1:12:35
Speaker 1: Who plays Superman? Came out recently with all those remarks
1:12:39
Speaker 1: where it's clear that he does not understand what consent is. Still,
1:12:43
Speaker 1: so Henry Cavill, Henry Cavill is like, I can't even
1:12:46
Speaker 1: ask a woman out anymore or else I'm going to
1:12:48
Speaker 1: go to jail. And it's like, dude, you need to
1:12:51
Speaker 1: learn because there right where it's just like I think
1:12:59
Speaker 1: it's it's to those things where I feel like it's
1:13:01
Speaker 1: almost going to take a generation or two to sort
1:13:04
Speaker 1: of reset cleansing by fire if you're just waiting for
1:13:08
Speaker 1: us all to die. Uh of like everyone's grown up
1:13:13
Speaker 1: with such a warped idea of what consent is that
1:13:16
Speaker 1: right now, it just seems like the smartest thing to
1:13:18
Speaker 1: do to verbally make sure, Okay, this is how I'm
1:13:21
Speaker 1: interpreted the issue with that, there's also an assumption that
1:13:26
Speaker 1: a they're going to listen, So if you say no,
1:13:29
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that it stops there? Right, and we
1:13:32
Speaker 1: see that, right, he's a lot right and be that
1:13:36
Speaker 1: um that sometimes. And I do think this is still
1:13:38
Speaker 1: like an issue for a lot of women, And I
1:13:41
Speaker 1: hope that that's one of the things that I would
1:13:42
Speaker 1: like to change and certainly talk about in my movie
1:13:44
Speaker 1: of of how do we get in the confidence to
1:13:47
Speaker 1: say no when we want to say no? Because for
1:13:51
Speaker 1: plenty of reasons that I can imagine, especially young girl
1:13:54
Speaker 1: has been in a situation where they feel like, oh,
1:13:56
Speaker 1: I don't really want a kiss, but maybe I should
1:13:58
Speaker 1: say yes. But if I say no, am I? But
1:14:00
Speaker 1: then it gives right and then but then guys are like,
1:14:02
Speaker 1: as long as I'm getting that verbal you know what
1:14:04
Speaker 1: I mean, Like it's more complicated than just like a
1:14:07
Speaker 1: legal thing, where like well she said, yes, I totally agree.
1:14:12
Speaker 1: I just think that it's and I'm not even saying
1:14:15
Speaker 1: that that approach is the full proof way of consent,
1:14:20
Speaker 1: but it seems like it used to step in the
1:14:22
Speaker 1: right direction that hasn't existed as sort of like a
1:14:27
Speaker 1: rule of sorts in culture up to this point. It's
1:14:31
Speaker 1: definitely and yeah, unfortunately it won't prevent everything. I well,
1:14:34
Speaker 1: I also feel like some of these things really are
1:14:37
Speaker 1: masking the fact that, like, you know, I think the
1:14:39
Speaker 1: guys who are going to take advantage of women and
1:14:41
Speaker 1: don't want to read the signs or don't give a
1:14:44
Speaker 1: fuck have been there for a while and we'll probably
1:14:47
Speaker 1: continue to be there. Like I've also, you know, I'm
1:14:49
Speaker 1: kind of okay, Like I remember the guys who like,
1:14:51
Speaker 1: clearly we're reading the wrong signs Slash probably liked me
1:14:55
Speaker 1: more than I like them kiss me. I was like, whoa,
1:14:58
Speaker 1: what's happening? Not into it? And they were like sorry
1:15:00
Speaker 1: by to me. That sort of feels like okay, Like
1:15:04
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, it's awkward, but it's not I
1:15:07
Speaker 1: don't think criminal. It's like, you know, I think I think, yeah,
1:15:12
Speaker 1: that's the yeah. I mean, I wouldn't feel violated if
1:15:16
Speaker 1: someone just like, you know, went in for a kiss,
1:15:19
Speaker 1: even if our lips met, you know, and I just
1:15:21
Speaker 1: wasn't feeling it and you know, back away saying no thanks,
1:15:25
Speaker 1: that's not for me. Uh. And then as long as
1:15:31
Speaker 1: he says oops, sorry and then doesn't keep trying to persist, that's,
1:15:36
Speaker 1: you know, a mistake. That's what I mean. Like to me,
1:15:40
Speaker 1: that's very different, like, Okay, clearly I was reading it
1:15:44
Speaker 1: the wrong way, and then I'm out of here. I'm
1:15:45
Speaker 1: not going to be an asshole. I'm like keep you know.
1:15:48
Speaker 1: But honestly, my preference if some guy is like misreading
1:15:52
Speaker 1: my signals would be for him to have it kind
1:15:55
Speaker 1: of in his head to be like, so, like do
1:15:58
Speaker 1: you want to make out and maybe like as opposed
1:16:02
Speaker 1: to him as its opposed to having that awkward interaction,
1:16:05
Speaker 1: and it's a simple like it's you know, that's it's
1:16:08
Speaker 1: like you're saying, it's not the end of the world.
1:16:09
Speaker 1: But I think it is a step in the right
1:16:11
Speaker 1: direction to eliminate that and and the same with the cleansing.
1:16:16
Speaker 1: Uh with as as generations go on, just teaching kids
1:16:21
Speaker 1: basic consent seems important. And and at the point, I'll
1:16:24
Speaker 1: just be like, follow your heart, because some people's hearts
1:16:27
Speaker 1: are evil. And and the point I'm trying to make,
1:16:30
Speaker 1: which we've made on the podcast many times before, is
1:16:33
Speaker 1: that many many movies like equip boys with these tools
1:16:39
Speaker 1: to you know, there were scenes play out where it's
1:16:42
Speaker 1: a boy being rejected over and over again, but then
1:16:45
Speaker 1: wearing the woman down and that working and the girl
1:16:49
Speaker 1: then falling in love with this boy. So the general
1:16:53
Speaker 1: wrong and that if a guy, if you keep saying
1:16:57
Speaker 1: no to a guy, as long as he keeps coming
1:16:59
Speaker 1: back and hammering you with the same question, that that's
1:17:03
Speaker 1: that's romantic. That's that's what the movie will have you believe,
1:17:06
Speaker 1: which brings me back to my everyone's grandparents love story
1:17:09
Speaker 1: is disturbing, right and wherever when my grandparents would describe
1:17:14
Speaker 1: how they met, now, I'm just like, what, he just
1:17:17
Speaker 1: followed you around in his car and yelled at you,
1:17:21
Speaker 1: and then you were his wife and you loved him. Uh,
1:17:24
Speaker 1: you know, it's there's definitely a weird sort of cultural
1:17:29
Speaker 1: dissonance with that. I have one last quick thing. I
1:17:34
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about that last scene between Carrie and
1:17:36
Speaker 1: her mom before the scary knife and then the mini
1:17:40
Speaker 1: scary knives and then they died, because there is that
1:17:42
Speaker 1: conversation that takes place between the two of them. Carrie
1:17:45
Speaker 1: has just taken her bath, she's cleansed herself of the
1:17:48
Speaker 1: blood of her peers. Great uh. She finds her mom.
1:17:52
Speaker 1: Her mom says, I should have killed myself when he
1:17:55
Speaker 1: put it in me. And then they have this conversation
1:17:58
Speaker 1: where it's weird because you you was sort of start
1:18:01
Speaker 1: to feel empathy for Carrie's mom and then she immediately
1:18:06
Speaker 1: sells it up like stabbing carry. But for like a
1:18:09
Speaker 1: minute there, you're like, oh my gosh, you know, she
1:18:12
Speaker 1: is also someone who is in incredible pain, where like
1:18:17
Speaker 1: you were saying about like we don't know what the
1:18:19
Speaker 1: relationship between the mother and the father was, like it
1:18:23
Speaker 1: seems like it could have been. You know, when she
1:18:25
Speaker 1: says I smell alcohol and his breath like that, we
1:18:27
Speaker 1: get a hint in there, but again it's done in
1:18:29
Speaker 1: this like she's insane as opposed to you know, like
1:18:33
Speaker 1: she's such an unreliable narrator that we can't really well.
1:18:38
Speaker 1: And I think that the like they take away from
1:18:39
Speaker 1: me with that character was like she was describing like
1:18:42
Speaker 1: sexual desire in a way that sounded so like she
1:18:47
Speaker 1: thought she had to reject sexual desire. So when it happened,
1:18:50
Speaker 1: it was painful to her and it was like full
1:18:53
Speaker 1: of shame, to the point where a few minutes later
1:18:56
Speaker 1: when she's like, you know, Jesus Christ, Superstars stabbed to death,
1:19:01
Speaker 1: the way she dies as kind of like yeah, like
1:19:04
Speaker 1: and it's almost like, I don't know, it's it seemed
1:19:07
Speaker 1: like it was referencing the conversation they just had where
1:19:10
Speaker 1: she seems to be at peace. Yeah, like her the
1:19:13
Speaker 1: idea of sexual pleasure caused her pain, and then when
1:19:16
Speaker 1: she has pain, there's some expression of pleasure. I don't know,
1:19:19
Speaker 1: And so what does that mean to Stephen King? Like
1:19:21
Speaker 1: I keep thinking about the quote you just read, and
1:19:24
Speaker 1: especially because he says women's lip, which again I think
1:19:27
Speaker 1: the period having babies thing is relevant to that because
1:19:30
Speaker 1: the pill had such a huge consequence that way, you know,
1:19:34
Speaker 1: And I know that men are often terrified, even if
1:19:37
Speaker 1: it's in this Like I remember when I was pregnant
1:19:40
Speaker 1: and I wasn't big enough to show that something like
1:19:42
Speaker 1: I would tell men I was working with or something
1:19:44
Speaker 1: like oh, by the way, I'm pregnant, and almost always
1:19:47
Speaker 1: there was this like moment of fear in their face
1:19:49
Speaker 1: like it wasn't me, you know, like not my baby.
1:19:53
Speaker 1: And I thought, it's so interesting. It's like it's like
1:19:56
Speaker 1: it's like centuries of of I don't know if something
1:19:59
Speaker 1: that I I I don't know if this is true,
1:20:01
Speaker 1: but it felt to me like even from you know,
1:20:03
Speaker 1: I mean, and I know a lot of men want
1:20:05
Speaker 1: to become parents and happily so and all that, but
1:20:07
Speaker 1: that there's still this weird, like an animal thing of
1:20:10
Speaker 1: like oh shit, like I'm out of here, you know. Anyway,
1:20:15
Speaker 1: I wonder if that was because again I think period
1:20:17
Speaker 1: stands for fertility here, right, And and it's so interesting
1:20:21
Speaker 1: that of course her mother is unable to love her
1:20:23
Speaker 1: in any way, like she seems happier when she locks
1:20:26
Speaker 1: Carrie and a cosset and then she's like sewing happily
1:20:29
Speaker 1: by herself, which is also you know, and I mean
1:20:32
Speaker 1: from what I know, and clearly I'm not a therapist,
1:20:34
Speaker 1: but you know, women who are unable to love their
1:20:37
Speaker 1: children in that way, it's like a pathological issue. So
1:20:39
Speaker 1: again it's never said if Carrie's mother is like this,
1:20:43
Speaker 1: because is she just pathologically insane or did something happened
1:20:48
Speaker 1: to her got her this way? And I for sure
1:20:50
Speaker 1: would have liked to know something, because again I think
1:20:53
Speaker 1: it clear stuff out. My one of my issues with
1:20:55
Speaker 1: this kind of abuse in movies is that like it,
1:20:57
Speaker 1: by it never being explained it it just continues to
1:21:00
Speaker 1: be a taboo that like, well, I don't I should
1:21:02
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's like, actually, we don't know how
1:21:04
Speaker 1: this stuff happens. And and just like that, the concept
1:21:07
Speaker 1: that depicting abuse is enough, you know, but it's like
1:21:12
Speaker 1: not examining it just means you're kind of perpetrating like
1:21:16
Speaker 1: abuse because you're just showing it happening, and it's like okay,
1:21:19
Speaker 1: acknowledging that this happens in the world and not common
1:21:22
Speaker 1: to go on. It's almost worse than not doing anything
1:21:25
Speaker 1: at all. It's just oh, well, I can I can
1:21:29
Speaker 1: keep going, but it's weird. Lawrence Brian and Stephen the Boys.
1:21:35
Speaker 1: The Boys had something to say about the fifteen year
1:21:37
Speaker 1: old girls and that they missed a little Shall we
1:21:41
Speaker 1: determine whether or not the movie passes the Bechtel test.
1:21:44
Speaker 1: It sure does. It does quite a bit. Yeah, all
1:21:48
Speaker 1: the damn time, all the damn time. I just want
1:21:50
Speaker 1: to read a few of my favorite passes. U. MS
1:21:54
Speaker 1: Collins says to Chris, spit out that gum. Chris says,
1:21:58
Speaker 1: where will I put it? MS Collins, she says, you
1:22:00
Speaker 1: can choke on it for all I care. Another great line. Yeah,
1:22:04
Speaker 1: there's a lot of ones where like MS Collins is like,
1:22:06
Speaker 1: I'm going to knock you down, vaguely threatening their students. Yeah,
1:22:10
Speaker 1: but it's vaguely. I mean, she's all over. But it
1:22:16
Speaker 1: passes between Carrie's mom and Sue's mom. Um, it passes
1:22:22
Speaker 1: between Carrie and her mom, it passes between ms Collins
1:22:26
Speaker 1: and carry There's a lot of different combinations. And I
1:22:29
Speaker 1: would say, and they do talk a lot about men
1:22:31
Speaker 1: though they do. Yeah, but there are an awful way
1:22:34
Speaker 1: more conversations than I was expecting to pass. I think
1:22:37
Speaker 1: that one of the things that stuck out to me too,
1:22:40
Speaker 1: as I forget what alternative test it is, But a
1:22:43
Speaker 1: lot of the time that they're talking very frequently, it
1:22:46
Speaker 1: is about it's about religion, it's about shame, it's about
1:22:50
Speaker 1: just stuff that's happening in the scene, but it is
1:22:52
Speaker 1: also very often about something domestic or something beauty related.
1:22:58
Speaker 1: A lot of the time it passes it's because they're
1:23:00
Speaker 1: talking about prompt um. But for I mean, for a
1:23:04
Speaker 1: movie of this time, it is a female centric story.
1:23:07
Speaker 1: Most of the men in this story are kind of
1:23:10
Speaker 1: complicit goof ases who are never really central. And it's
1:23:14
Speaker 1: periods at the forefront of it, which I'm sure in
1:23:17
Speaker 1: was standing right, sure, and the fact that this movie
1:23:20
Speaker 1: was like a hit on top of that is right.
1:23:23
Speaker 1: But I think the period is only featured so prominently
1:23:26
Speaker 1: because that's such a scary and disgusting thing to men
1:23:31
Speaker 1: that because this is a horror movie, they're like, what
1:23:34
Speaker 1: can we put in here to make this more horrific? Oh,
1:23:37
Speaker 1: how about menstruation? So well, let's write the movie on
1:23:41
Speaker 1: our nipple scale, where we have a scale of zero
1:23:45
Speaker 1: to five nipples. We rate it based on its portrayal
1:23:47
Speaker 1: and representation of women. I'm going to give it. I
1:23:51
Speaker 1: think a two and a half or three were saint.
1:23:58
Speaker 1: It's like we're menstrual letting our um because women entirely
1:24:06
Speaker 1: drive this narrative. If there are men it's they're only
1:24:09
Speaker 1: doing things because women asked or told them to do things.
1:24:12
Speaker 1: So women have all the agency in this story, they're
1:24:16
Speaker 1: making all the active decisions. It can be interpreted as
1:24:20
Speaker 1: a story of female empowerment. That's certainly how Stephen King
1:24:25
Speaker 1: intended to write it based on that quote I read.
1:24:28
Speaker 1: But it's also a very male understanding of what femininity is,
1:24:34
Speaker 1: of what female relationships are, of how you know, women
1:24:40
Speaker 1: operate in the world. So had this same or similar
1:24:45
Speaker 1: story been written or directed by a woman, I think
1:24:47
Speaker 1: we would have seen something very different. Um, I'm interested
1:24:50
Speaker 1: what the situation is with the various you know, remakes
1:24:53
Speaker 1: and sequels and stuff like that are not familiar enough
1:24:56
Speaker 1: to comment on it. But yeah, it's it's a story her.
1:25:00
Speaker 1: A woman's period also means she's telekinetic and and she
1:25:06
Speaker 1: gets her inact revenge on hers. But also, wouldn't that
1:25:13
Speaker 1: be cool if your period just didn't mean like, oh,
1:25:17
Speaker 1: so I'm gonna go with I think two and a
1:25:19
Speaker 1: half nipples and giving nipples to my nipples too. I'll
1:25:24
Speaker 1: give we see both spacetics nipples, So I'll give you
1:25:30
Speaker 1: to her, and I'll give my last half nipple to ms. Collins,
1:25:35
Speaker 1: the fizz ed teacher who her intentions and motivations are inconsistent,
1:25:42
Speaker 1: but it seemed to overall be on the positive end
1:25:45
Speaker 1: of the spectrum. I'll go too and a half as well.
1:25:49
Speaker 1: I think that this is just like again there. I
1:25:53
Speaker 1: would think that this story would be portrayed a little
1:25:56
Speaker 1: clearer and a little differently if women had been involved
1:25:59
Speaker 1: in production at literally any point. Um And I wish
1:26:04
Speaker 1: that we had that product to be like, Okay, here's
1:26:06
Speaker 1: a woman's story as interpreted by all straight white men,
1:26:09
Speaker 1: and here's a woman's story interpreted by a group of women.
1:26:12
Speaker 1: Um And what what things are different that that? Should
1:26:17
Speaker 1: they honestly should give a piece of source material to
1:26:20
Speaker 1: a group of men and in a group of female
1:26:22
Speaker 1: few makers and see what happened. Hair. In contrast, a
1:26:26
Speaker 1: lot of the stuff that bothers me about this movie,
1:26:28
Speaker 1: I don't like that Carrie, for having control of her
1:26:32
Speaker 1: powers or some sort of control, is sent to Hell,
1:26:36
Speaker 1: and that goes relatively unchallenged to like. The last frame
1:26:39
Speaker 1: of the movie is like, she's sure in hell, all right? Uh,
1:26:43
Speaker 1: But a lot of the things about period in a
1:26:46
Speaker 1: week later, she's she's in Hell. I was like, man,
1:26:49
Speaker 1: is her period even over at this point? Like she's
1:26:52
Speaker 1: does she have a fucking tampone? Because I don't think
1:26:56
Speaker 1: can we have the scene where she goes shopping for
1:26:58
Speaker 1: them she has the ones that got soaked in the shower.
1:27:02
Speaker 1: I guess already. I believe it's all the way home.
1:27:06
Speaker 1: I can't tell if this movie all takes place in
1:27:08
Speaker 1: the space of carrious period. But also I've burned it down.
1:27:14
Speaker 1: I also kind of like that little kid she throws
1:27:16
Speaker 1: off his bike. Yeah, kid's last name is di Palma.
1:27:19
Speaker 1: I'm guessing it's Brian and his kids. It's like, toss
1:27:23
Speaker 1: you off a bike today, son. The more I think
1:27:26
Speaker 1: about Stephen King's books, the more I think this is
1:27:29
Speaker 1: his issue, because the one with James con where his
1:27:32
Speaker 1: fucking ankles are broken, which is a great movie, but
1:27:35
Speaker 1: I mean it's a woman imprisoning him in a fucking bed,
1:27:39
Speaker 1: Like this guy is terrified of women. Yeah, A lot
1:27:42
Speaker 1: of things that bothered me about this movie specifically were subtextual,
1:27:47
Speaker 1: like every time we see a group of women, specifically
1:27:50
Speaker 1: the opening scene is very bizarre. We I think, between
1:27:55
Speaker 1: the three of us have reached a conclusion that this
1:27:56
Speaker 1: is not something that happens in the real world. And
1:28:00
Speaker 1: and just the way women are filmed in this movie.
1:28:03
Speaker 1: I don't know who's doing this cinematography. I have a
1:28:05
Speaker 1: guess at their gender, uh is like it's so many
1:28:09
Speaker 1: women's nude torsos or like there's a nip peeking through it.
1:28:14
Speaker 1: And it's very exploits towards the panding up and down
1:28:19
Speaker 1: a lot of times, like with the fact that Carries
1:28:22
Speaker 1: groping herself in the shower, and just all the scenes
1:28:25
Speaker 1: the nudity for the most part is gratuitous completely And
1:28:30
Speaker 1: again who showers like that in the lockers room? Like
1:28:32
Speaker 1: she's like, especially after having been bullied out in the field,
1:28:36
Speaker 1: She's like, time to soap out my breast, especially as
1:28:39
Speaker 1: someone as like conservative is Carrie, And it makes no sense,
1:28:44
Speaker 1: like so that's not how a modest person showers, and
1:28:47
Speaker 1: and and the same for the gym scene where it's
1:28:50
Speaker 1: just you know, we're following a butt walk past breasts
1:28:53
Speaker 1: and it's that for two minutes, and so it for
1:28:57
Speaker 1: a story that features mainly women, the women are constantly
1:29:01
Speaker 1: objectified by the movie they're in, even if they're not
1:29:04
Speaker 1: really objectified been the men around them, because there's not
1:29:06
Speaker 1: really enough men around them to be doing that. Uh So,
1:29:10
Speaker 1: as well crafted a movie as it is, the way
1:29:13
Speaker 1: women are framed in this movie really bothered me. And
1:29:17
Speaker 1: the fact that it's, you know, all white women with
1:29:20
Speaker 1: the same body type basically, with the exception of one
1:29:23
Speaker 1: girl who is played I would argue as a joke.
1:29:26
Speaker 1: I mean that is really only there to pull funny faces,
1:29:28
Speaker 1: like we don't know anything about her nothing. Yeah, and
1:29:31
Speaker 1: that Jim scene made it extremely obvious to me. Where
1:29:34
Speaker 1: you're panning on that long line of girls doing the things,
1:29:37
Speaker 1: I'm like, they all have the exact same thing. It's
1:29:42
Speaker 1: you know, in terms of any sort of variety of
1:29:45
Speaker 1: types of women we see, we see a lot of women,
1:29:47
Speaker 1: but it's the same type of women we're seeing multiple times.
1:29:52
Speaker 1: So that sucks and I don't like it. But there
1:29:57
Speaker 1: there are a lot of good things that we have
1:30:00
Speaker 1: discussed within There's there's a lot of like on the
1:30:03
Speaker 1: right track nous to this story. But unfortunately, I think
1:30:07
Speaker 1: because there are no women involved in the making of
1:30:10
Speaker 1: this story, a lot of it kind of misses or
1:30:13
Speaker 1: it kind of gets uncanny value. So I'm going two
1:30:16
Speaker 1: point five. I'll give one to carry, give one to Sue,
1:30:20
Speaker 1: and I'll give one to the car that blows up.
1:30:28
Speaker 1: Am I doing this as well? Okay, well, clearly I'm
1:30:30
Speaker 1: not not as a dept as you guys had given
1:30:33
Speaker 1: out nipples, but I'm probably gonna go with two. Okay,
1:30:37
Speaker 1: it's surprising considering, like, I think it works as a movie.
1:30:41
Speaker 1: But I think my conclusion today is that to your point, like,
1:30:44
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a movie that's concerned with understanding
1:30:47
Speaker 1: women at all. I think it's about the male fear
1:30:50
Speaker 1: and psychosis of women, and in particular their power as
1:30:54
Speaker 1: understood by the coming on of the period. And in
1:30:57
Speaker 1: that way, I find it really disappointing. Meaning, you know,
1:31:01
Speaker 1: take it a little further. So I'm supposed to give
1:31:03
Speaker 1: nipples to the people anything you want. I mean, obviously
1:31:07
Speaker 1: I feel for Carrie a lot, so I mean I
1:31:11
Speaker 1: wish that more background or or character could have. I mean,
1:31:14
Speaker 1: we essentially also don't know her beyond you know the
1:31:17
Speaker 1: fact that she gets her period and then these powers.
1:31:19
Speaker 1: That's true, Like what is Carrie interested in? I don't
1:31:22
Speaker 1: know what. The motivations of almost every main character are
1:31:25
Speaker 1: not very clearly defined, and they all but they're all
1:31:29
Speaker 1: doing things that should be motivated and yet they are not.
1:31:33
Speaker 1: And I'll probably give my other one to mom actually
1:31:35
Speaker 1: because I feel for her as well, although you know
1:31:37
Speaker 1: she's a horrendous mother to her. But I feel like
1:31:41
Speaker 1: I'm going to believe that there's not that to justify it,
1:31:44
Speaker 1: but that there's somewhere. But I don't know. I just
1:31:45
Speaker 1: feel like again completely misunderstood character who nobody wanted to
1:31:51
Speaker 1: take the care to figure out. Yeah, most female movie
1:31:55
Speaker 1: character and also mom's mom's get a really rotten deal
1:31:57
Speaker 1: in a lot of movies, especially the ones written or
1:32:00
Speaker 1: erected by men. I mean, who I think are working
1:32:02
Speaker 1: out their issues with moms. So like the moms and
1:32:04
Speaker 1: the characters are either angelical and kiss you and put
1:32:07
Speaker 1: you to bed or stab you to death or yeah,
1:32:13
Speaker 1: thank you so much, thank you. I can keep doing
1:32:17
Speaker 1: this for hours. I love it. I know. Yeah, there's
1:32:19
Speaker 1: it's as always, there's truly never enough time. UM so
1:32:23
Speaker 1: tell us about All About Nina. It came out last week,
1:32:27
Speaker 1: and is there any where can we follow you? And
1:32:31
Speaker 1: that project on social media? All About Nina film is
1:32:35
Speaker 1: the website and and that should it tells you where
1:32:37
Speaker 1: where it's playing and where you can buy tickets. It's
1:32:40
Speaker 1: playing in New York in l A and then other
1:32:42
Speaker 1: markets are going to open as we go along. And
1:32:45
Speaker 1: because it is a sort of smaller independent movie, you know,
1:32:48
Speaker 1: we could use the support where not a Marvel film
1:32:50
Speaker 1: that's opening and like five tho screens at once and
1:32:53
Speaker 1: that everybody's heard about or anything like that. But it
1:32:56
Speaker 1: does seem to be hitting the spot with a lot
1:32:58
Speaker 1: of survivors. And actually not just that, but I think
1:33:02
Speaker 1: women who are feeling rage these days, which seems to
1:33:04
Speaker 1: be a lot of us, say, for example, carry too.
1:33:08
Speaker 1: We yeah, yeah, Kavanaugh hearings all of that stuff. So okay, great,
1:33:13
Speaker 1: everyone go see the damn movie. It's really and it's fun.
1:33:20
Speaker 1: There's fingering jokes and there's period diarrhea jokes. Yeah, there's
1:33:25
Speaker 1: written by women. So it's an interesting mother character, yes,
1:33:31
Speaker 1: a nuanced mother character. It's yeah, it's it's and good
1:33:35
Speaker 1: guys too. Yeah, there's I think as well as some
1:33:39
Speaker 1: shitty guys. We have everything. Really, it's like whole spectrum
1:33:42
Speaker 1: on this convert the spectrum of humanity. No, it's it's
1:33:45
Speaker 1: really great, and um, thank you for thank you for
1:33:47
Speaker 1: having me. You can follow the Bechtel Cast in all
1:33:50
Speaker 1: the usual places were on Instagram and Twitter at bechtel Cast,
1:33:54
Speaker 1: where on Facebook you can go to our website. Bytel
1:33:57
Speaker 1: cast dot com, you can go to our t pup
1:34:00
Speaker 1: look Psychet all the cool merch at t public dot com,
1:34:03
Speaker 1: slash v back dol cast, and if you're feeling crazy,
1:34:07
Speaker 1: we've actually referenced a bonus episode coming out on our
1:34:10
Speaker 1: patreon ak Matreon several times in this episode. We have
1:34:15
Speaker 1: a few October e episodes coming out, including Teeth, So
1:34:19
Speaker 1: go over to patreon dot com slash backtel Cast to
1:34:21
Speaker 1: sign up for that five bucks a month to extra episodes.
1:34:24
Speaker 1: You bet you. Also, we have a few live shows
1:34:26
Speaker 1: coming up. Details at the time of this recording are
1:34:30
Speaker 1: yet to be confirmed, but we know that we will
1:34:33
Speaker 1: be in New York and Philly at the beginning of November,
1:34:37
Speaker 1: and we have we'll be back in l A as well.
1:34:40
Speaker 1: We'll be back in l A for a live show
1:34:42
Speaker 1: here at the Ruby also in November, so we'll be
1:34:45
Speaker 1: tweeting about it. We'll be posting about it on our
1:34:48
Speaker 1: website backtelcast dot com under the live appearances tab. Will
1:34:51
Speaker 1: have more details as they come in, so check us
1:34:55
Speaker 1: out live, baby, We love you, we'll talk to you soon. Goddamnit,
1:35:00
Speaker 1: damn it. Let's go burn a Jim down, all right,
1:35:02
Speaker 1: let's do it. Okay, Bye bye,