Latest / Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps / Kamala vs Trump with Chas Licciardello

Transcript

Kamala vs Trump with Chas Licciardello · Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps

0:00
Get a humans welcome to the safe space for dangerous ideas, well how was that debate?
0:08
The old Pamela Trump debate, how was that?
0:13
I'm asking you a serious question because I didn't see it because I'm recording this
0:16
in advance of the debate so that I can turn it around and get it into your ear holes
0:21
as swiftly as possible, I'm very much looking forward to it.
0:25
My hazelichadello, my interlocutor here, my brains trust if you will, has for the past
0:32
four US election cycles hosted a smash hit prime time national television show in Australia
0:37
called Planet America, which dissects American politics, it's satirical, it's smart, it's
0:42
whimsical, he's the perfect person to gaze from afar at the United States, both an insider
0:48
and an outsider to the US political system, enjoy as much as I'm sure that I did but I don't
0:53
know for sure because I haven't done it yet, this chat, the one I'm only, chaselichadello.
1:00
All right, what did you make on it?
1:06
Look I think with debates people like to go who won, I hadn't been able to start again.
1:12
Who won?
1:13
There hasn't been a real debate with a winner or loser, probably in the entire history of political
1:20
debates, so the way I approach these.
1:22
Wait a second, we literally just had one, a couple of months ago, up ended the entire
1:27
race.
1:28
Well, look, I'm not saying that there can't be people who fail in debates.
1:33
Oh, I can't.
1:34
But, for instance, that last debate's a great example, that last debate we had two losers,
1:39
but one of them was the biggest loser of all time, which is why we had to withdraw from
1:44
the race.
1:45
And one of them wasn't even playing the debate game worth of being a live game, right?
1:48
Exactly.
1:49
Exactly.
1:50
I mean, it's just to preface our hot takes on this particular debate, you know, I had
2:00
always been what I've been, I've been, so, uh, Ninkham Poots who always wanders around
2:05
after a debate saying, well, everybody knows, it's a matter, if debates matter, then Mitt
2:09
Romney would be president because he beat Obama in the first eight, oh, oh.
2:14
And then this year, I was well, I'm truly convinced that, oh, okay, well, that's a fierce
2:18
bullshit debate and totally matter since they just derailed a president's political career.
2:25
Um, that being said, yeah, take it up today, I was going to say that the, that if you're
2:33
a review that all the masses polling, then yeah, debates don't matter much because they
2:37
rarely affect polling much.
2:39
But I'm of the view that polling is not everything.
2:42
I'm of the view that be that, that, that take, yes, I'm of the view that you're trying to
2:49
build a message for an entire campaign and you might, for a little while, it might take
2:55
you a little while to build it, but in the long run, it'll be worth it.
2:57
So in this case here, I think that if we're looking what the candidates were trying to
3:02
do and how well they succeeded in doing it, I would say that Kamala House will be happier
3:09
with the outcome of this debate than Donald Trump would be because this debate, as far
3:14
as I'm concerned, was entirely about defining Kamala Harris.
3:18
Like at this point in time, in the, in the New York Times, the end of poll just came out,
3:22
a third of the people there said they didn't know enough about Kamala Harris.
3:27
Something tells me everyone knows what they need to know about Donald Trump, right?
3:31
Right?
3:32
With Kamala Harris, they're not sure yet.
3:34
And so at this point in time, they're still trying to work her out.
3:37
This debate, I think, was important for working her out because she's made it to you.
3:43
What do you think they walked away from this debate having worked out about her?
3:47
I think the first thing is the attack that Trump's been using that she's an idiot, I don't
3:54
think is going to work.
3:55
I think that she held her own.
3:58
She didn't look vapoured.
3:59
She didn't look out of her death.
4:01
She didn't look like she was struggling.
4:03
So I think that that has tamped down that particular attack, it's made it less effective,
4:08
I would say.
4:09
Number one, number two, I think that the second attack on her has been about a lack of
4:15
policy acumen and the fact that she's hiding, that she's not doing interviews, that she
4:20
hasn't released any information.
4:22
I feel like if there was one phrase I remember hearing over and over again during this debate,
4:28
it's Kamala Harris saying, I have a plan.
4:31
She just kept on, as many times she could possibly say, I have a plan, she said it.
4:37
And that was obviously intentional.
4:40
And I think it probably would have helped her.
4:41
Now I come from the school that I'd like to hear the plan rather than just to hear you
4:46
say you have one, but yeah, American, American viewers might be more forgiving than me.
4:52
Well also, I mean, hopefully a plan is too complicated to explain in the one minute
4:58
rebuttal that you've got, right?
4:59
I mean, in fact, it reminds me of probably the most embarrassing moment in the debate.
5:03
I thought was when the moderators trying to hit Trump down on what his healthcare plan
5:08
was and he didn't even have the bullshit, the North Trumpian bullshit of just saying,
5:13
I've got a great plan.
5:14
It's the best plan.
5:15
Everyone says it's the best plan.
5:16
All the directors say it's the best plan.
5:18
And then move on, he literally admitted to not having a plan, but I can accept of a plan.
5:23
Yes.
5:24
Yes.
5:25
I mean, it's the important, yeah, no, I was going to say I thought it was an embarrassing
5:32
moment for Trump, but much less, much less overtly embarrassing.
5:38
It's more subtly embarrassing if you're following what's going on.
5:42
Was that there was a point when Kamala Harris, I thought, set him up for the biggest
5:48
alley-oops spike of all time to confuse two sports, where they're talking about abortion,
5:55
right?
5:56
And that is obviously her turf.
5:58
And she was just a just accusing Trump of wanting to bring in every possible restriction
6:03
known to man.
6:04
He's going to like ban IVF supposedly equalling to the one that was working, so final one
6:14
was he's going to ban IVF.
6:15
And she said that I thought, oh my God, you idiot, you're setting him up, because he's
6:20
got a policy just announced last week for free IVF.
6:25
And he wasn't, he wasn't even going to bring that up until you idiot Kamala Harris,
6:29
set him up for it.
6:30
He's now going to spend the next minute talking about free IVF, which is going to make you
6:34
look terrible because they're going to say, well, you weren't begging on this, that there
6:37
was an even bigger idiot in the room than Kamala Harris.
6:40
Exactly.
6:42
The former president of his own policy, he went on to say didn't he, that J.S. is a different
6:52
man from him, and they have different ideas about IVF, because J.S. is J.S.
6:55
And J.S.
6:56
I think that about IVF, he said that J.S. had a, had a different idea about him.
7:04
I think about the, it was, it was, it was about IVF, I thought that my, my, about the
7:08
childcare policy, not the childcare, the, the, the child takes credit.
7:13
I don't remember, but the, but my point is, he didn't say his policy, and that to me is
7:18
the most embarrassing part of the debate, but certainly embarrassing, because most people
7:22
wouldn't realize that.
7:23
I mean, you know, he's policy, you go, my god, how do we miss that?
7:27
I'm not sure that I, I've been surprised in the hours since the debate to read the initial
7:32
hot tape as being that it's pretty much a slam dunk for Kamala and was terrible for
7:37
Trump, because within 30 seconds of the debate starting, I was like, oh, okay, I guess
7:43
what Kamala was going for here, and I'm not crazy about it, actually, just in the sense,
7:49
I, I take a point that what she needed to do was to make sure that any, you know, presumption
7:58
that she might be like eight was shot down, but I actually don't think that anyone who
8:03
might for her believes the Trump line that she's a lightweight, like she, anyone who knows
8:10
anything about her knows that she was a tough prosecutor and that she's shot.
8:15
What they're worried about is that I think is that she's canned and too heavy and too
8:21
clever for her own good and too poll tested and doesn't have a war and doesn't have like,
8:27
you know, a center that in the primaries in 2020, willing to say whatever she needed
8:32
to do to pander to the woke left and then all of a sudden now she's a tough guy, prosecutor
8:38
and is she or isn't she tough on the border and like, you know, you don't know what you're
8:42
going to get that she's like an empty vessel that Trump at least has a core even if you
8:48
don't like it.
8:49
And I don't think she actually did a very many favors tonight because I do, I did sense
8:55
like just let me, let me, let's listen to the very first question right out of the gate,
9:00
she gets asked about whether people are better or worse off than they were four years ago.
9:07
When it comes to the economy, do you believe Americans are better off than they were four
9:10
years ago?
9:12
So I was raised as a middle class kid and I am actually the only person on this stage
9:19
who has a plan that is about lifting up the middle class and working people of America.
9:24
I believe in the ambition, the aspirations, the dreams of the American people and that
9:29
is why I imagine and have actually a plan to build what I call an opportunity economy.
9:35
Because here's the thing, we know that we have a shortage of homes in housing and the
9:40
cost of housing is too expensive for far too many people.
9:44
We know that young families need support to raise their children and I intend on extending
9:50
a tax cut for those families of $6,000, which is the largest child tax credit that we
9:56
have given in a long time.
9:58
It's already getting into numbers and $6,000 like this is your moment to be relatable,
10:05
to be non-canon and straight out of the gate with what is obviously a rehearsed speech that
10:11
has nothing to do with the question, like pass me the ambient.
10:16
Look, I agree that that first answer was one of her worst.
10:20
I think there were probably two moments when she...
10:25
I thought generally, I think almost everything she said was rehearsed, but I think generally
10:30
speaking, she matched the rehearsed sound quite well to the question, but I thought that
10:35
first one she did a terrible job of it and the other time when she had no idea what
10:39
she was doing was when Trump got low barges, it's ridiculous, she's got 15 pre-rehearsed
10:47
two minute speeches and all she has to do is mentally try to allocate like some game
10:53
of like Jenga or the correct answer to the correct question.
10:59
How depressing?
11:00
Josh, after the last six years or so of American politics, we are about 300 feet below the
11:09
ground, looking up at the limbo bar, I'll take a low bar, I really will take a low
11:16
bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low
11:23
bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
11:30
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take
11:37
a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
11:43
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
11:50
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take
11:55
a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
12:01
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
12:06
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
12:13
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
12:18
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
12:24
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
12:30
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
12:37
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
12:42
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
12:48
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
12:53
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
12:58
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
13:03
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
13:08
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
13:14
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
13:19
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
13:24
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
13:29
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
13:34
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
13:39
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
13:44
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
13:49
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
13:54
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
13:59
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
14:04
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
14:09
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
14:14
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
14:19
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
14:24
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
14:29
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
14:34
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
14:39
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
14:44
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
14:49
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
14:54
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
14:59
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
15:04
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
15:09
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
15:14
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
15:19
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
15:24
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
15:29
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
15:34
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
15:39
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
15:44
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
15:49
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
15:54
I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar, I'll take a low bar,
15:59
but maybe in eight years' time, we're going to look back and go,
16:02
Kamala Harris' campaign was the first campaign
16:05
of the new way of joined politics,
16:07
and I don't know if that's a better way,
16:10
or if it's a worse way, but it's a different way.
16:12
Why would it not just be part of the ordinary oscillation
16:17
between audacity and court in the sense that,
16:22
much like what we saw at the last election in Australia,
16:25
where the election before last in Australia,
16:28
the opposition centre left party,
16:30
came to have a huge suite of very ambitious progressive policies
16:34
and lost some legal elections.
16:37
So then at the next election, the subsequent opposition leader came in
16:40
with basically no policy, he just said,
16:42
I'm not the other guy, and he won the election.
16:46
Kamala Harris' campaign wasn't the case be made,
16:49
there's a moment when you want an Obama coming in there
16:53
with we're going to overhaul the entire healthcare system
16:56
and there's our dance and yes we can.
16:58
And then there are other moments where you just want to kind of play
17:01
small ball.
17:02
All we want is the other guy not to win,
17:05
so don't give anyone any reason not to just vote for us
17:08
because we're not him.
17:10
Look, there may be an element of that,
17:12
and I think you speak reasonably here,
17:14
there are times for the big ball, times for the small ball,
17:16
but I would argue that the small ball that Kamala Harris'
17:19
is playing is different to the small ball that Joe Biden played,
17:23
or that previous small ball positions are playing.
17:26
In the way that she is exhibiting,
17:31
she has complete control over her campaign.
17:35
She has eliminated anything which she doesn't have
17:38
a complete control over.
17:40
She's only releasing exactly the words that she wants released.
17:44
When she's only conducting interviews
17:47
where she has basically complete control of the situation,
17:50
she's only putting herself in places that she controls.
17:53
That has never happened before.
17:55
And it's something you can't do.
17:57
Does that do you mean basically that she's not
18:00
unexpected town halls with questions from the audience
18:03
and she's not sitting down with the new times for a one-on-one?
18:06
Because is there any other way in which she's exerting a new control?
18:11
Well, I think the policies as well.
18:14
I think she's released one-line policies.
18:18
That is new for a Democrat.
18:20
The Democrats did not use to do that.
18:22
Republicans have done that before.
18:24
Democrats have never done that before.
18:27
It's not just her.
18:29
Tim Walls as well.
18:30
He's an entire persona until he became the vice-presidential nominee
18:34
for the Democrats.
18:36
He was being like,
18:37
he's been a guy who likes the chat.
18:40
And they're just...
18:42
Did someone say?
18:44
I'll tell you what else is the first time.
18:47
The other thing is the first fall is no local media.
18:51
They're not doing local media.
18:53
That is something that is very rare,
18:55
especially when you're competing in Pennsylvania.
18:57
They're not doing that at all.
18:59
Now, I want to be clear here.
19:01
I'm not trashing that at all.
19:02
I think there's good reason for this.
19:04
I think that you couldn't do this in the past.
19:07
This is something where they have new capabilities
19:11
that they couldn't have in the past.
19:13
But what I'm saying is,
19:15
this may be...
19:17
Maybe looking back on this.
19:19
We might say in the future that things have changed permanently.
19:25
It's not just oscillations,
19:27
but that things have changed for good.
19:29
And things have just...
19:31
For fear...
19:32
For fear permanently rather than...
19:34
Possibly.
19:35
Yeah, yeah.
19:36
I wanted to say that.
19:38
Yeah, that is interesting.
19:41
We're not going to know until after the election,
19:43
whether or not you know in the middle of a campaign,
19:46
whether or not the thing that you're doing in the campaign is good.
19:49
I agree with Trump comes in as such a known quantity
19:53
that there's very...
19:54
There was very little down there actually for him in Mr. Bay,
19:57
I think, because as long as he didn't...
19:59
You know, say completely unhinged,
20:01
which I don't think he did,
20:03
no more than usual.
20:05
We all...
20:07
Anyone who was going to vote for him anyway
20:09
understands that he's a needy-o-sync guy
20:11
with a lot of ridiculous claims
20:13
and they've factored...
20:14
They've baked that into their calculations.
20:16
For fear, I can't quite...
20:18
My instinct, my gut is that...
20:21
She could have been better off
20:26
leaning more into the Tim Walls.
20:29
These guys are weird.
20:31
You can't pack Donald Angle.
20:35
Instead of...
20:36
Like, she was a velvetech generic Democrat
20:40
who I felt did necessarily...
20:44
Like, let me play one...
20:45
Here's one answer that she gave.
20:47
Here's one in English,
20:48
in which Donald Trump is invited
20:52
to remind moderators on some of the comments
20:55
that he's made about her race.
20:56
And listen to Kamala's response.
20:58
Yes.
20:59
Mr. President, you recently said of Vice President Harris,
21:01
quote,
21:02
she was black until a number of years ago
21:04
when she happened to turn black
21:06
and now she wants to be known as black.
21:08
I want to ask a bigger picture question here tonight.
21:10
Why do you believe it's appropriate
21:12
to weigh in on the racial identity of your opponent?
21:15
I don't, and I don't care.
21:17
I don't care what she is.
21:18
I don't care.
21:20
You make a big deal out of something.
21:22
I couldn't care less.
21:23
Whatever she wants to be is okay with me.
21:25
But those were your words.
21:27
I don't know.
21:28
I mean, all I can say is I read where she was not black.
21:31
That she put out.
21:33
And I'll say that.
21:35
And then I read that she was black.
21:37
And that's okay.
21:38
Either one was okay with me.
21:40
That's up to her.
21:41
That's up to her.
21:42
Vice President Harris, your thoughts on this?
21:45
I think it's, I mean, honestly,
21:47
I think it's a tragedy
21:49
that we have someone who wants to be president
21:52
who has consistently over the course of his career.
21:58
Attempted to use race to divide the American people.
22:01
You know, I do believe that the vast majority of us know
22:04
that we have so much more in common than what separates us.
22:06
And we don't want this kind of approach
22:09
that is just constantly trying to divide us.
22:11
And especially by race.
22:13
I think that was a perfect opportunity for her to say,
22:16
well, I really couldn't care less.
22:18
This is the kind of thing that he does all the time.
22:20
And he made, and like literally just leave it at that.
22:22
And not even, and just be like,
22:24
this guy has his funny like obsessions and quirks, whatever.
22:27
But like to say, like, I believe that it's a tragedy
22:30
that I mean, come on.
22:32
You just taken his bait.
22:33
That's what he wants you to say.
22:35
I mean, I know what you're saying.
22:37
Like that she did that with Dana Bash.
22:39
And the interview there just said,
22:40
move on.
22:41
I don't care.
22:42
Same old plain book.
22:43
Like she could do that.
22:44
And certainly that would be effective.
22:45
I'm not saying that wouldn't be effective.
22:47
But I understand why she did what she did there.
22:50
What she was trying to do.
22:51
Was she was trying to signal to all the nervous middle class white people
22:55
in middle America.
22:56
I don't care about race.
22:58
I care about being a dickhead.
23:00
That's what she was.
23:01
That's what she, that's what that answer.
23:03
The extended answer was about which was going through all of Donald Trump's
23:07
foibles through his history.
23:08
Went through his entire history of racial animus.
23:11
And on none of them were she going,
23:13
oh, and that's awful because he's a racist.
23:15
She was saying he did that, which was being a dickhead.
23:18
Really?
23:19
No, I took it as being he's a racist because 40 years ago he,
23:23
you know, was on the wrong side of the Central Park five.
23:26
And he's a racist.
23:27
There's this questioning.
23:28
Like she doesn't have to use the words.
23:30
But the, but the mere fact that she's saying that it's a tragedy.
23:35
That it's like it is not a tragedy.
23:38
It is simply not a tragedy that he thinks that it's weird that half
23:43
half Indian like quarter white person.
23:48
Is there race differently in front of different crowds?
23:51
Like he does do that.
23:54
He's wrong that there's anything wrong with that,
23:58
or if he's saying, but it's not a big deal that he does that.
24:03
And it's not a deal in 2024 that 40 years ago he was making like,
24:08
I don't know.
24:10
Criticisms of black crime in New York that code in 2024 as being
24:16
unseemly.
24:17
So, look, I mean, this is one way we can disagree.
24:20
That's fine.
24:21
But what I would say is, I mean, that was Trump's response.
24:25
Trump's response was, she's, she's talking things that were 40 years ago
24:28
because she can't talk about things happening now,
24:30
which I thought was actually one of his better responses to off the cuff.
24:35
But I mean, I think that when she's talking about Trump,
24:40
Trump not renting to black people in 40 years ago,
24:46
the reason why she's doing that is because she's saying,
24:49
look, I'm not someone who cares about pronouns and cares about the little,
24:54
the little minor irritations that we, that people are talking about now with race.
24:58
I'm talking about fall on, being an asshole,
25:02
discriminating against people when a big massive.
25:04
I see what you're saying.
25:06
That's what she was doing that took by half because if I missed it,
25:09
then the average American voter will miss it.
25:12
The invitation is, you know, is basically,
25:16
do you want to make a big blow out of the fact that Donald Trump
25:20
is not politically correct enough?
25:23
And the correct answer should be, no, I do not.
25:26
The correct answer should not be, so I don't want to.
25:29
And he is why because actually it's not just a matter of optics.
25:32
It's also substance here because in 1992,
25:35
he owned an apartment block that was mean to people of color.
25:38
And therefore, you know, as to you've already,
25:40
when you're explaining, you're losing.
25:42
That's fair enough.
25:43
Like I said, I don't, I don't think,
25:45
I don't think you're being eligible here.
25:47
I don't know what he's saying is correct,
25:49
but I also think there are, there are two ways of skin and cat.
25:52
And let's, and let's remember as well where this ended.
25:55
This ended with her saying,
25:57
I just think it's really sad that we got someone here
26:01
who's just constantly trying to divide people.
26:03
I just think we need to turn the page.
26:05
Like this was leading towards her reinforcing her message,
26:08
which is we need new leadership.
26:10
We need a new generation.
26:12
Like she basically took the question,
26:15
the race question and turned it into her campaign message,
26:20
which is what she tried to do with every question,
26:23
which is a smart way to approach this.
26:25
I mean, I suppose the campaign message was,
26:29
like if you could just turn up the volume
26:31
a little bit on the Hopi changinous of it
26:33
and down a bit on the wonky,
26:36
I fight for you kind of hammy bullshit.
26:41
There's just something about,
26:42
like take, go back, going back to that first answer, right?
26:45
Her very first answer.
26:46
If it's her first answer,
26:48
and she's going to say it regardless of what the question is,
26:51
then get about the fact that America is an idea.
26:56
The fact that America is something that the whole world
26:59
can aspire to be part of,
27:01
or maybe you don't say the whole world,
27:03
because it brings in overtones of immigration or something.
27:06
But they're trying to just stick a needle in your arm
27:12
and like a phony object,
27:14
just inject us all with a bit of,
27:16
there is no red America or blue America.
27:18
There is no black America or white America.
27:20
There are only these United States of America.
27:23
And we had four years under Trump,
27:25
was a chaotic and divided country.
27:28
And things that affect after the past four years,
27:30
absolutely not.
27:31
Are there things that we need to improve on?
27:33
Totally.
27:34
But you know, let's not go,
27:36
go back to the squabbles of the past.
27:39
Let's turn a page.
27:40
Like all of that stuff that you were kind of alluding to there,
27:43
you did a better job than she did.
27:46
So I just want, like give me more of that.
27:50
Give me $6,000 in tax credits.
27:53
30 seconds into the show.
27:55
Yeah, I actually think that's a really good call for you
27:58
that one of the strengths,
28:00
I mean, I think conventions are overrated,
28:02
but I think one of the strengths of the Democratic convention
28:05
was they really did patriotism well.
28:07
Like they, they really,
28:09
they really, that was a real strong point,
28:10
where it wasn't mindless rar, rar America patriotism.
28:13
It was, we love America because we think
28:16
what America stands for is great kind of patriotism.
28:19
And, and she just completely lost that during this debate.
28:22
She never at all.
28:23
Yeah, I think that was a handy.
28:25
And that's what the 10 walls,
28:27
why I thought the 10 walls peak was great as well,
28:29
because you know, there's,
28:30
the problem with the left for the past, you know,
28:34
five to 10 years, I think,
28:36
is that it's gotten a little bit too smug
28:39
about how, how much it can happen
28:42
on mainstream institutions
28:44
and silly, you know, middle American,
28:47
mainstream voters,
28:48
and unenlightened people
28:49
who haven't got the university degrees in gender study.
28:52
Like there's a kind of elitism
28:54
and a sort of finger wagging puritanism
28:57
and about it that is off-putting.
28:59
And 10 walls is the opposite of that.
29:01
Like he's back to the, you know,
29:03
I'd say kind of the queacious, you know,
29:05
guy in an airport bar, you know,
29:07
working, working folks, you know,
29:09
and that, I think,
29:11
that optimistic kind of patrioticism
29:13
of an every man populist left
29:16
is what will be able to feed the far right
29:19
and, you know, these weirdos,
29:21
not kind of scolding,
29:23
sensorious version of the left.
29:26
I think you're right.
29:27
And I think that they have underutilized
29:29
the aspect of him.
29:30
I think, I think 10 walls
29:32
reeks of what you're talking about
29:34
and what the Democratic Party needs.
29:36
And when he first came in,
29:38
there are a few moments
29:39
which were brilliant like that.
29:42
His first speech was filled with that.
29:44
And there were some times
29:45
he had conversations
29:46
in the first week
29:47
where he was introducing himself to the left.
29:49
And he was full of that.
29:50
It was wonderful.
29:51
It was a breath of fresh air.
29:52
But the last month,
29:54
I've seen very little of that.
29:55
And now I don't blame him.
29:56
I think that's part of that strategy
29:58
I was talking about before.
29:59
And so that is,
30:01
that's something they're not using as well.
30:03
Because I just bring up
30:04
when we talk about this debate,
30:05
some of which I haven't mentioned at all.
30:06
And I would like to know your views on this.
30:08
Which is that,
30:10
I'm afraid in particular about the moderating.
30:12
And about,
30:13
I felt like,
30:14
I mean, I felt like Harris
30:16
had the best of that debate.
30:17
But I also felt like,
30:19
she had a lot of help.
30:20
I felt like,
30:21
in terms of the topics that were picked,
30:22
they didn't even mention Biden,
30:24
which was,
30:25
I think,
30:26
that was the unspoken elephant in the corner.
30:29
Like the fact there was,
30:30
the last time I had the debate,
30:32
Biden was there,
30:33
and now he's not.
30:34
And there's all these questions
30:35
about Kamala Harris's relationship with him.
30:38
And watching you,
30:39
and watching you.
30:40
What would you have asked?
30:41
What would you have asked?
30:42
I would have,
30:43
I would,
30:44
okay, well, talk on my head.
30:45
I would say the question I would like to know,
30:47
I would like to see her answer,
30:49
is,
30:51
is,
30:52
why do you think,
30:53
what do you think,
30:55
if,
30:56
if Joe Biden hadn't stepped aside,
30:58
that he should still be the nominee?
31:01
Like,
31:02
it's good.
31:03
Yeah, I would like to hear her talk about that.
31:05
Yeah.
31:07
And I think what a lot of people would,
31:09
would also like to know,
31:10
is,
31:11
is what,
31:12
how does she assess his capabilities?
31:14
And,
31:15
and like,
31:16
I think,
31:17
I think that's too easy for their answer.
31:18
I'd like to.
31:19
Yeah, exactly.
31:20
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
31:21
No, that's a good way of putting it,
31:22
because if you put it any other way,
31:23
if you say like,
31:24
when did you,
31:25
like,
31:26
that he was no longer competent,
31:27
to run for president,
31:28
then obviously,
31:29
she's just going to
31:30
decline it and deny.
31:31
Exactly.
31:32
Exactly.
31:33
But,
31:34
I think,
31:35
when he was a real GIF to her,
31:36
the fact that they spent
31:37
probably two minutes combined
31:39
on her flip flops
31:40
was a real GIF to her.
31:41
Exactly.
31:42
Exactly.
31:43
Exactly.
31:44
Whereas with Trump,
31:45
they spent literally 10 minutes
31:47
on January 6th and 2020.
31:48
That was the biggest topic
31:50
of the debate
31:51
by a long time.
31:52
I actually thought
31:53
that was correct when you asked
31:54
what, what I thought.
31:55
Because of what the point
31:56
that I'm making clear about him not playing the,
31:58
the game,
31:59
like,
32:00
not abiding by the rules,
32:01
it's important
32:02
for a significant portion
32:03
significant portion of the debate to be devoted to basically
32:07
depressed and like, are you going to abide by the outcome of
32:10
this election? Do you agree with all of our judges and
32:13
independent analysts who've looked at the last election and
32:15
say that there was, you know, that I'm winner. I think that was
32:19
important to put on the table, even though it may be one at
32:24
all because his supporters already, you know, I've already
32:26
factored that in and it's well.
32:29
I just be clear, I'm not saying that shouldn't come up. It's
32:33
the most important thing with the guys that Trump, I agree.
32:35
It's got to come up. But I felt like it just went on and on
32:39
and on that section to the point. In fact, it was the only
32:41
follow-up. I think that was the only follow-up of the entire
32:44
night was them reiterating the question about January 6th.
32:48
And the and it got to the point where Trump did something
32:51
which I've never seen him do ever. See, I'm not sure if
32:54
you've seen him have news before. I've never seen him on the
32:57
topic of the 2020 election. Go, let's stop talking about this.
33:01
When we talk about now, I've never seen him do that ever.
33:05
That's true. Yeah, yeah, that's true. I'm surprised he didn't
33:09
get into it more. I mentioned the the subject of Kamala's
33:13
flip flops and then going reasonably easy. Let's have a
33:17
listen to or a look if you're watching this on YouTube,
33:20
which you should be if you can see Chaz's beautiful face. If
33:24
you're listening to the podcast version, let's have a look at her
33:27
answer to to flip flopping and changing her opinions and
33:32
her policies is my work that is related to having a friend when
33:37
I was in high school who was actually assaulted by her stepfather.
33:40
And my focus then on protecting women and children from
33:43
violent crime is based on a value that is deeply grounded in
33:47
the importance of standing up for those who are most vulnerable.
33:51
My work that is about protecting social security and
33:54
Medicare is based on longstanding work that I have done
33:58
protecting seniors from scams. My values have not changed.
34:04
And what is important is that there is a president who actually brings
34:07
values and a perspective that is about lifting people up and not
34:13
beating people down and name calling. The true measure of the
34:18
leader is that leader who actually understands the strength is not
34:23
in beating people down. It's in lifting people up. I intend to be
34:27
that president. We're record. I mean, I know that the Americans do
34:36
take it differently, but like the whole I intend to be that
34:39
president and lifting up. Do you remember in the Republican
34:44
primaries when Donald Trump was against the clown car of
34:49
different Republicans? At one point, Marco Pobio said that if you
34:55
think that Obama doesn't know what he's doing, make no mistake.
34:58
He knows exactly what he's doing. And then he said a few other
35:01
things. And then later said, if you think Obama doesn't know
35:05
what he's doing, make no mistake. He knows exactly what he's
35:07
doing. And Trump scored like the win of the night by being like,
35:11
you know, Marco's like a brain is broken or something. It's like he's a robot who's
35:15
just like Chris Christie ended him. Yeah, Chris Christie jumped in and just
35:19
did it. Just did it. It was like Chris Christie. Yeah.
35:22
Yeah, it's like these people get so prepared for these debates that they
35:27
learn the thing and then they seize up and they just keep spewing out the same
35:31
zinger. Like Kamala just said it's about lifting people up, not beating them
35:36
down. Okay, it's an okay line. It's such an amazing line that you have to
35:41
brand it into your memory and then squirt it out 20 to 30 seconds.
35:46
I don't know. I suppose she's trying to make a point that policies might
35:50
change, but her fundamental values don't. Sounds canned to me.
35:54
No, look, it's fine. She was just trying to escape. But all I'm saying is
35:58
that doesn't explain why she's flipped off from everything from
36:02
from healthcare policy to plastic straws, right? That doesn't explain that.
36:06
Has she flipped on plastic straws? She has. She has. She has. She has.
36:10
She has a mind plastic straws. I'm not saying that's a big deal.
36:13
I'm just saying that if ever there was room for a follow-up,
36:16
that question had room for a follow-up. Wait, is she now pro plastic straws?
36:20
Don't know plastic straws? She's now not. She's now not anti plastic straws.
36:25
That's right. She's my gal. In Australia, you can't drink a beverage
36:30
anymore because your mouth dissolves in the paper straw because of Australian animal
36:34
and plastic straws. It's the greatest thing to get into America and getting off the plane
36:38
and getting a beverage and being like the land of the free, the land of the brave.
36:43
It truly is. God bless the plastic straw. I want to emphasize, I'm not complaining
36:47
about that particular policy. I'm just saying she was trying to escape the question
36:51
as fast as she could and I feel like the moderators, if ever there's a follow-up,
36:56
that should have been the follow-up because she completely avoided it and it's such a central
36:59
part to the concerns about them. Yeah, and again, you know, just I think there's a,
37:05
there would be a way for her to be kind of lovely. I'm naive about the potential liabilities
37:11
of being a female candidate and maybe hard to think it is and she has to really play the role
37:17
of this kind of tough. I am a president and when I am that your president, I will fight for
37:23
you every day, nonsense. But I would find it more appealing if she was a little bit more
37:28
played about that and was like, listen, life is long and things show up in different ways over
37:34
the political career. You know, I've worn a lot of hats in my life. I've been a mom. I've
37:37
been a prosecutor. I've been a vice president. You know, on the big issues, you know, well,
37:44
I really say on the big issues, I've stayed the same because even big issues like plastic straws,
37:49
she's flipped flopped on. But the issues, I've remained fundamentally the same. But of course,
37:54
you, of course, you have their opinions and you zig and you zag. All I can tell you is that I
37:59
know exactly what I'm doing for the four years. And if you want to reelect me after the end of
38:03
the four years, then we'll have a conversation about what the subsequent four years look like. But
38:07
you know, you can say something like that. And at least you would sound more like a human than
38:11
maybe robot, maybe president. Absolutely. Don't say that. Don't do it like that. No, I agree,
38:20
complete. And I think my values haven't changed is a fair place to start. I don't think it's the
38:26
whole answer. It's like, look, my values haven't changed. I've always been trying to achieve the
38:32
same goals. But I came out California where there were certain ways of achieving these goals.
38:37
I've now been both president for last four years. I've learned, I've learned new tricks. I've
38:42
learned other ways to attain the same goals, which might be more politically achievable. And I get
38:47
like, but you can, as you say, you can, you can address this like a normal person. I'm not saying,
38:51
I'm not saying this is this is the, like this is the Achilles heel, you can attack. I'm just saying
38:57
that I felt like the moderators just flew past that section and then worked for ages on the
39:02
January six section and not just that. Also, the fact checking now, Trump said a lot of lies and
39:08
they picked them up and every lie they picked them up on was a lie. I'm not just being any fact
39:15
check, but it's not like Carmel Harris didn't say stuff that was dodgy at times. Her entire abortion
39:20
section was accusing Trump of doing things that Trump has said he is not going to do. It's just
39:26
banning banning abortion, you know, banning everything. And the moderators were silent during that.
39:34
Did she imply that he was going to ban other reproductive? She was talking about, she was talking
39:41
about incest and rape and she was talking, she was talking, she was basically ascribing every
39:47
red state restriction to Trump and saying, this is what he's going to do. And that is just not
39:54
his policy. And that's fine. You can say you don't believe him. I'm just saying if the moderator is
39:59
going to call out, I'm going to draw a line here. I'm going to draw a line there. Every line they
40:05
drew was against Trump, every single one. And it was usually just after he had a big, a big
40:12
zinger line and then they just broke his momentum. And then that bit which you mentioned right at
40:18
the top of this conversation when they asked him about healthcare and he whuffled like he always
40:23
does. And then they said, oh, so you don't actually have a policy at all. And he said, I have a
40:28
concept of a policy that so you don't have a policy at all. That's not a standard moderating question.
40:34
That's them injecting themselves into the debate. They never did anything like that for Kamala Harris.
40:40
And they quit it. But they chose not to. So I actually felt like, I don't get me wrong. I'm not
40:45
saying, oh, because the moderators Trump, Trump didn't do as well. I think that Trump had some
40:50
problems. And I think Kamala Harris performed better, generally speaking. But I think that they
40:56
didn't help. I think you're right. I mean, it's, and it helped the sort of erosion of trust in
41:02
the legacy media when the, you know, television newscaster from the number one, you know, nightly
41:10
news program exhibits any kind of, you know, even if it's just in the, in the eye of the
41:17
beholder. That's true. I mean, I'm a fan of moderators to be a little bit like I just,
41:23
I would just like a lucid about it. I mean, just my style. I think you, I think you find out
41:28
quite a lot about the American political system, the, the presidential, the presidential, like
41:35
select system is a terrible way to select the leader of the free world. It doesn't select for
41:40
the parties that you want. I mean, you in, you know, in the president, you want a certain
41:44
judiciousness and calmness and have hubress and contemplativeness and perhaps as a sort of
41:50
professorial reflectiveness, all of which are attributes that are not favored in a presidential
41:56
race. So one of the things that I think is, you know, one that you certainly don't need from
42:03
the president is an ability to learn, uh, two minute speeches and then deliver them without
42:10
seeming nervous in a television format. Like there's no reason why that should be an important
42:16
part of the job in the overlaps. But what you might want to see is the way that the person
42:21
wrestles with things in part and throws ideas around and receives unexpected ideas and jabs
42:27
and spars kind of it's allowed. Like maybe that's kind of like adjacent to the sort of thing
42:33
that you don't want president. So when the moderators are quite strict about this is the end of your
42:38
time, you know, the question has finished. I'm sorry we're going to give equal time for the other
42:41
person. Like let them interject a little, like let them talk to each other a little, be a little bit
42:46
more Lucy Goosey. Like let's see where this goes. It's more and it's probably more useful.
42:51
Can I tell you what I've always wanted to say in a debate? It's never going to happen. But
42:57
along the lines of what, not that, along the lines of what you suggested before that last
43:03
suggestion, what I've always wanted to say is case studies. Forget all the, tell me about abortion
43:10
type type questions. Just going, okay, case study. You're the president and Putin does
43:16
hypothetical, you mean? Yeah, Putin does likes and the Hungarian president says why and the
43:23
and your and the the House of Representatives does Z. What do you do? And then and then after
43:29
they answer the first part, you go, and now the Senate has done has done Z. What do you do?
43:35
I like it. I like to see that. Yes, that's a very good idea. They should get John Dickerson
43:40
to do a debate like that. He'd be good to see, but you know, from CBS News, he's good at that sort of
43:44
stuff. Like thought experiments and things. Just because just because it's not about the exact
43:49
scenario. It's just about seeing the way they think. And that would tell you everything. Yes,
43:54
that's right. Just before we leave the question of cameras, flip flops, you know, I would love it
44:01
if a presidential candidate just be a bit more honest about the way that the presidency gets one
44:07
into the memories and so on. Like, wouldn't it be, wouldn't it be lovely if she was just
44:13
she just settled with us and was like, you know, what's the moderator's name, Dan, or David,
44:19
if she was just like, David, I was running for a primary in the Democratic party from the state
44:26
of California. What did you think I was? You know, what policy suite did you think I was going to
44:31
take on? You know, we know how this goes. You know, we know how this game has to be played. Does
44:37
that mean that I don't have convictions of course? It means that I also want to win. You know,
44:42
that would be would that face? Look, I'd love to say that. I'm not sure if it's successful or not,
44:49
but I'll tell you some evidence that might be successful because there's only one candidate I've
44:54
ever seen in history who would even consider doing something like that and it's Donald Trump
44:59
and he won the primary doing that. It's true. So maybe it would be good to say that kind of thing.
45:07
I don't think Kamala Harris is the politician is going to do it, but maybe seeing a bit more of that
45:11
kind of thing might work. You know, you're not entirely right that the only person who that thing
45:16
was Donald Trump because you're you just reminded me of a moment in a book about memoir of his time
45:23
in the White House or the first section of the memoir he's apparently still writing the second,
45:30
which is a great great while where he talks about being in the back of his limo going to I think
45:38
it's meet the press and there's lots of speculation about whether he's going to run for this is at
45:43
the this is I guess it must be 2006 and he is in the back I think David Axelrod and they're trying
45:55
to and they're working out what his response will be in a question of are you going to run because
46:00
he's there to talk about something else, but they know that the that's going to end with are you
46:05
going to run and they're workshopping the different ways of doing that question and Obama just
46:11
turns to Axelrod and says what if I don't dodge and he was like well you can't announce now and
46:16
he's like no not announce what if I tell you what if I just say I'm thinking about it I'm not sure
46:26
yet and they're like well you don't really do that and he's like let's give it a shot and he did it
46:34
it's going to fall in he actually ended up winning the presidency you may recall so that's
46:40
kind of like what I'm talking about you know like you you don't actually have to play the game you
46:44
can also just say the thing that we all know to be true and that we know that you know is true
46:50
and that you know that we know that you know is true okay third term of Obama I'm sure
46:55
I'm sure it's a winner it'd be nice I want to take a listen to the final clip which is Donald
47:01
Trump getting a little bit I mean this for me is Trump at his best or the craziest but it's what he
47:08
does the best and makes Trump Trump have a listen I ask you this you talk about the capital
47:17
why are we allowing these millions of people to come through on the southern border how come
47:22
she's not doing anything and I'll tell you what I would do and I would be very proud to do it I
47:26
would say we would both leave this debate right now I'd like to see her go down to Washington DC
47:33
during this debate because we're wasting a lot of time go down to because she's been so bad
47:38
it's so ridiculous go down to Washington DC and let her sign a bill to close up the border
47:44
because they have the right to do it they don't need bills they have the right to do the president
47:48
of the United States you'll get them out of bed you'll wake them up at four o'clock in the afternoon
47:52
you'll say come on come on down to the office let's sign a bill if he if he signs a bill that the
47:58
border is closed only has to do is say it to the border patrol who are phenomenal if they do that
48:03
the border is closed mr. people are killing many people I would like Jason waking up Joe Biden at
48:09
four o'clock in the afternoon going to go and do something that he would be able to do just by
48:14
signing his name to a piece of paper that worrying about congress vintage Trump that was that was
48:21
and look and and that that whole argument of why you just do something rather than saying you're
48:26
gonna do it why don't you just do it you're the vice president now I know she's a vice president not
48:30
the president but it's an effective technique it's also total bullshit and completely cynical because
48:36
of course of things I mean like additionally infuriating is strong armed the Republican party
48:45
into voting against a bill act would achieve almost all of what they're talking about there but
48:52
he wanted to have this as an issue to run on so he can fit this way to the Republicans not to pass
48:57
the bill because this to be an open wound that he can campaign on so totally cynical and really
49:04
quite fictitious because he keeps I mean even in that rant he's moving his hands up all over the
49:09
place he's saying why don't he's saying they don't need a bill why don't they just sign bill it
49:14
wouldn't be a bill they would sign it would be an executive order that they would sign because it's
49:18
not a bill as a congress which is exactly the thing that he's saying that they don't need to do
49:22
but an executive order would not be considered to achieve what he like so it but as a piece of
49:28
showmanship absolutely I think it's strong I agree and by the way just my policy point of view let's
49:35
leave aside the the showmanship aspect of it there is actually an argument he could make which
49:41
is probably a little bit a little bit technical for Donald Trump argument he likes to make pretty
49:46
broad arguments but there is an argument he make which I think is quite solid ground which
49:51
then moderate a hint of that with that question which is we heard for for three for three years
49:59
that you needed you needed a bill to make any kind of change but then you just turned around and
50:06
signed an executive order with three quarters of what I've been asking for all along and look what
50:11
happened overnight the numbers went down the numbers went down they could have gone down three
50:16
years ago but you kept on insisting that you couldn't do what you then turned around and did
50:23
anyway like that that is I think a real vulnerability for Biden not Kamala Harris she's not the
50:30
person signing executive orders but I think that's an argument that hasn't been made enough I think
50:35
well I mean it is a liability for her actually because I don't think anybody thinks that she's
50:39
going to be to the right of Joe Biden on immigration you know that's true and look there is
50:45
a response to that as well if someone made an argument to me my response to them would be
50:49
wait another three months so you see the courts strut throw that executive order out
50:54
because it's coming it's coming it's going through the courts it's going to be illegal
50:58
it's going to be fair but by time if you become president by time you become president again
51:03
that court order that that executive order will be struck down we want to wait till it becomes
51:07
president because half of the things he looked up this evening were things that he claimed he
51:12
was going to fix before he even became that an election it was like in the time between election
51:18
day and in all your days he's going to have ended the war in Ukraine and ended the gas
51:23
war I think both it is funny actually that is that I mean I don't think Kamala has to ever do this
51:30
but if Kamala has a dull Trump she might turn around and say well if you can do this before
51:36
your president do it now do it now just do it you're right now times of wasting come it's not
51:41
down we got to come with you I'll come with you what did you make of I mean if Vladimir Putin
51:48
must be having it must be feeling pretty good tonight it was pretty struck by how over to Donald
51:54
Trump was in admitting that it's going to stab Ukraine in the back and in order to end the war
52:00
because he was given he was invited at least twice I think maybe even three times by the water
52:05
to say do you want Ukraine or will it be a requirement that Ukraine win the war and he didn't
52:13
just dodge the question he said no I want the war to end yeah which means you know at some
52:20
significant calamity to you yeah yeah look it's it you're right Zanskyu be nervous hearing that
52:28
and it's but it's nothing that he didn't already know let's face it it's actually I found it odd
52:33
those a few times that kind of thing happened with Trump like where he was given
52:37
an obvious angle just go no no I'll just say yeah I'll give you what you want let's move on
52:43
I'm full of bullshit I don't care but he just he just wouldn't do it like for instance the other
52:47
one was the national ban on abortion like saying if if Congress passed a national ban of abortion
52:53
a national ban on abortion would you veto it that's right that's the one where JD Vance he said I'm
52:58
not JD Vance but I said JD Vance was JD Vance said you would you would veto the national ban
53:03
of abortion and and he just wouldn't he wouldn't say yeah I'd veto it which would be so easy for
53:10
in the summer yeah but he may be saffier than you're giving him credit for in that he may be
53:14
thinking of spots from the right like he he also wants people to turn out right what's
53:20
to turn out and he doesn't want everyone who has been banking on him who's really just
53:27
conservative to feel like he's stabbing them in the back he can't say I'm going to veto he needs
53:33
to play both sides of this he needs he needs you know I think there would be a shit storm on the JD
53:39
Vance you know on religious talking talk radio for example in Appalachia and the Midwest
53:46
and in JD Vance then if he was if he said I would veto a national ban I don't know I reckon I mean
53:54
maybe you're right I reckon he's just got him I reckon he can say I reckon he can just be Bernie
53:59
Sanders and yeah they're still gonna vote for him I reckon he's got them yeah that's interesting
54:04
yeah the most interesting thing on the foreign policy though I thought of the whole debate came
54:10
from Kamala Harris was a really weird moment and it was a prepared moment it was prepared moment
54:15
because it was when he was talking about her being soft on China and and she and she said oh yeah
54:22
how about that tweet that that you sent out the president G you know president G thank you in
54:27
Mill of COVID like she quoted with a number of exclamation marks like she's clearly prepared right
54:32
with this with his tweet and then she said even though he he had complete a complete lack of
54:37
transparency from the origins of COVID and yet hang on you're going after the people who say
54:43
with COVID was a was a Chinese conspiracy is this what we're doing now the Democrats are going
54:49
after those people yeah and that really interesting that that was a plan of hers I also thought it
54:56
was weird to give him shit for doing diplomacy like give him shit for being you know mean and
55:05
arrogant and fleeing to other countries but I don't think it's necessary to give him shit maybe
55:10
she was going to mail him up maybe this was a plan like by claiming that he's soft on China or
55:15
something I know why you're thinking that because what you're thinking is logical but if you have
55:21
I'm assuming you haven't read the DNC platform from the convention because if you had you would
55:29
have seen that there's a extremely worrying trend I don't know who it's from I don't know if it's
55:35
from Kamala Harris or it's from one of the people or whatever someone there doesn't like the
55:40
traditional democratic method of foreign policy negotiation because in the in the DNC platform
55:48
they went him hard on being too soft on Iran which was very weird that the Democrats were going
55:57
Donald Trump for not for not being more sabre rattling with Iran and and when Iran he assassinated
56:04
one of their senior leaders and pulled out of the Iran nuclear deal I know I know and they said
56:10
that in the DNC platform they were citing times when there were tensions with Iran and they said
56:16
and you didn't attack them you didn't do anything and like and it was like hang on this is weird
56:21
like is this John Bolton or is it the democratic party so what's the way do you think what are they
56:27
doing what is that strategy I don't know I don't I don't I can't think of a of a sector of I mean
56:34
maybe the never trumpers but the never trumpers aren't ring the democratic platform no I don't know
56:38
whether just spit here wonder whether it is the thinking goes character woman women are perceived
56:47
as weak on national security we need to be the hawkiest version of the democratic party that we
56:53
can be like she has been talking a lot about we want to have a formidable American military might
56:58
and all this sort of stuff and she's talking you know she certainly hasn't panned it to the kind
57:04
of you know anti-zionist wing parties she's been strong and bullish on Israel so maybe it's all
57:11
out to try to just be be hawks so that the Republican leaning soccer moms in the Midwest who don't
57:21
like Trump but would generally have voted for like Mitt Romney could vote for you yeah that could
57:28
be the logic I mean it's certainly all I'm saying is that I'm I'm not surprised to see her go
57:33
hawkish like that is that is consistent and that may be the reason why yeah how frightened are you
57:40
of a trump second term on look let me let me let me let me take a step back for the to go back to
57:48
being the first term and then I'll answer your question when when trump first was elected president
57:52
and there are all these doom saying articles about the end of the world is nigh and north
57:58
career and world war three the republic repeals itself was exactly and and and about yeah the end
58:06
of democracy else going stuff I wasn't aware of any of those things well I was worried about
58:11
which I feel vindicated in now was that trump just lowers everyone's standards on everything like
58:18
trump the trump the the way he interacts with things the way he interacts with politics the way
58:24
he interacts with policy everything the way he interacts with his opponents the way he interacts
58:28
with the media all of them are the lowest possible standards their their school kid level and everyone
58:35
else becomes like that around him right makes people who would have behaved in a more mature way
58:41
behave like him to respond to him and we get this escalating a devolution of standards as a result
58:48
and that was what I was worried about and that was what I think is played out I think that
58:52
took about a month for CNN to be broken by trump and they just haven't returned since it was an
58:58
hour and a half but it's not just then like there's been all kinds of people who have who have
59:06
just descended from try and that's what I'm worried about to answer your question at the second term
59:10
I'm not worried about Hitler I'm not worried about all the bad dictator for a day I'm not
59:15
about any of those things I'm not worried about the mass deportations I don't think they're going
59:19
to happen I think like a lot of what trump says a lot of stuff is just impractical and it's just
59:23
not going to happen but what I do think is that the diminution of and the devolution of standards
59:30
will continue over that second term and I think what we've learned is you don't go back once they
59:36
go down they stay down and I and I am concerned about the public discourse in America in six years
59:45
time if trump has four more years to work on everyone else and the way they the way to react so
59:51
that's one concern and let me just question is I'm not looking forward to just one additional
59:55
wrinkle there which is that I think people often think that the delitious that he has on the discourse
1:00:01
is limited to the right but of course it also deranges left completely and makes the left lose
1:00:07
sight of reasonable bread and butter wall and issues and becomes you know deranged and you know
1:00:15
historical and and loses a quorum of support as well yeah okay finish that thought because I'm
1:00:22
also interested in whether or not you're concerned about his impact on democracy and like
1:00:27
creating you know partisan political hacks in the public service swinging the judiciary into being
1:00:34
a bunch of stooches I'm not so worried about the about the I can't finish the first point I'm not
1:00:40
so worried about the judiciary because in particular look he has appointed some mega hacks like
1:00:46
not not a huge number of mega hacks I think a number of trump charges are fine but he's at point
1:00:50
some mega hacks and I'm sure he'll point some more mega hacks but mega hacks at the lowest level
1:00:56
of the federal court process don't really bother me that much there's always appeals and all the
1:01:01
rest of it I'm mostly well at the Supreme Court and I actually think I'm not so worried about the
1:01:06
Supreme Court and I'll tell you why because I think the most reasonable conservative judges are the
1:01:11
youngest conservative judges I think Amy Coney Barrett is by a mile the most reasonable of those
1:01:16
people yes I think brick I think Brett Kavanaugh is the closest thing they got to a swinging judge
1:01:21
I think that the like so so if if Trump appoints two more conservative judges it'll be to replace
1:01:28
Justice Roberts and Justice Alito who were the two mega hacks so in the worst case scenario he's
1:01:34
going to replace two mega hacks with two more mega hacks as well so sorry I'm sorry I meant
1:01:41
Thomas yeah yeah not Roberts Roberts is young that's one mistake Roberts is not mega hack Thomas
1:01:46
is a mega hack and all does a mega hack that makes more sense yeah sorry yeah yeah so they're the two
1:01:51
they're the two who will who will be replaced and they're another trump term so it actually won't
1:01:56
change the Supreme Court at all that the the the the swinging judges will still be Amy Coney Barrett
1:02:02
yeah and Justice Kavanaugh and and Roberts and and look with the exception of I mean this might
1:02:08
be unpopular with some of your viewers but in my personal view as someone who's really into
1:02:13
Supreme Court stuff I actually think most of their rulings have been quite reasonable I think
1:02:18
they've been a couple that aren't reasonable at all I think that even though I was never a fan of
1:02:24
Roe versus Wade as a piece of legal theory I and so I didn't mind it being overturned I thought
1:02:32
the the the reasoning behind overturning it was very weak so I thought that was a bad ruling dobs
1:02:38
for that reason I thought Justice Thomas's guns ruling Bruin was terrible and I thought the
1:02:44
immunity hearing just now was the worst of all but with the exception of those three I think a lot
1:02:51
a lot of their rulings are just conservative rulings and they're not ridiculous and insane they're
1:02:56
just conservative and so I'm not so worried about the courts I am really worried about the bureaucracy
1:03:02
I think if he I think it's well within his power to just take the next 5,000 bureaucrats and make
1:03:09
them political hacks and that will change America for the worst for markedly the worst and once
1:03:17
again you can't go back once you make them political hacks you can't make them
1:03:21
clean it out isn't it yeah so I'm worried about that and so finally what's your prognostication
1:03:28
what happened over the next couple of months I if I look at if you're if you're asking for me to
1:03:33
predict the result I suppose for the first time we probably can because I've always said until now
1:03:37
we need to wait for the debate we need to wait for these are moments we're getting to the point
1:03:42
now we're getting close enough we can probably make a prediction if I'm my look I think it's
1:03:47
going to be super close I think it's really going to be a pencil vain yeah 20,000 votes job but so
1:03:53
so predicting is insane but I just don't want to be a spell sport and I want to give you something
1:03:57
I'll say at this point in time I'd be predicting Trump but really yes really but I honestly 20,000
1:04:05
votes so easy why are you predicting Trump I think that the that with all things being equal
1:04:14
the fundamentals favor Trump you have an unpopular president with an un and unliked economy
1:04:22
even though I think actually the economy is objectively not bad that's not how the American
1:04:26
people see it you have a you have a general vibe of malaise I think in America at the moment
1:04:33
people are not enjoying people people want change and Kamala Harris provided a spark of change
1:04:40
for a brief period of time but I think they're already getting used to it and I think at the end
1:04:45
of the day in in in six weeks time when people are asking am I going to get more change from
1:04:51
Kamala Harris or from Donald Trump they're more likely to say Donald Trump the polling already
1:04:55
suggests that I think it's going to become more so in six weeks time I guess let's I'm just going
1:05:01
to be contrarian and take the opposite version by the other one appear after after the election I
1:05:06
think my suspicion is that the change Monica still redounds to Kamala more than Trump that people
1:05:16
are a bit weary of the old culture wars you know not everybody you know probably 80% of voters
1:05:25
love it you know half of whom are going to vote for Trump and half of whom are going to vote for
1:05:30
but I think the people in the middle it's possible that just be like this is really not a great choice
1:05:38
but he's a bit of a jackass why don't we take a panton the younger woman give her a shot see what
1:05:48
you know see if she can do anything that's that's my picture but I don't live in rural Pennsylvania
1:05:53
no look look I would not I want to be very clear I would not all be surprised if you're right we are
1:06:00
talking about half a percent of Pennsylvania that's what we're talking about and that is that
1:06:04
in itself is ridiculous when you think about the 1084 Ronald Reagan 149 out of 50 states it's like
1:06:10
give me those years back great to talk to you thank you so much for us staying up and