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Authenticity Before Answers: Why Churches Must Start Real Conversations | Corey Trimble · Real Life Theology Podcast

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  Welcome back to the Real Life Theology Podcast. This episode features Corey
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  Trimble talking about authenticity. He argues that authenticity leads to truth
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  and encourages churches to create a safe space for open conversation. I hope you
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  guys enjoy this episode.
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  If you're not from our church, I always tell them to hold off on the
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  applause because you may not like what I have to say, so it may not be something
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  you like. Hey, seriously, thank you all for being here. I hope it's been good. I hope
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  everyone's enjoyed all the breakouts and the teachers and everything else. It's
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  cool. It's like having all you guys over in my living room or something. I'm glad
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  you're here. Here's what I'm gonna do. A couple of things. One, I only have about
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  14 and a half minutes, which isn't much time. I'm gonna share my heart with you a
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  little bit. I'm going to present a problem, but I do not have time to give
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  you the solution, which seems unfair, right? So listen, I'm a terrible
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  self-promoter, but most of the speakers today have written for Renew,
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  and I had a book come out last year for Renew, and so the problem I am presenting,
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  I hope the book kind of resolves a little bit, but I'm just gonna share a
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  little bit of my heart. If you don't know me, I mean this with all seriousness, I
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  hope you don't judge me too harshly today, and I hope that you hear kind of
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  the depth of what I have to say. So let me pray. Let me speak to you for 13
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  minutes and 54 seconds, and then I'll get out of the way, okay? Let me
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  pray. Father Lord, we love you. God, thank you, Lord, for a bunch of men and women
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  that have a desire to make disciples, and thank you, Lord, for men and women who
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  love your Word and who are genuine and authentic and real, and God, the state of
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  our church in the United States is not healthy, and we hope, Lord, that we
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  can somehow be a seed that is planted that will start to resolve that
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  conflict. So Lord, we love you. We thank you. Be with me as I speak, God, and give
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  me your wisdom, Lord, and I pray that everything I say reflects your heart. In
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  Jesus' name, amen. I was asked to speak about authenticity in relation to the
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  Scripture. I don't have time to get into this, but at this church, all we do is
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  expository teaching, which means over the last 12 years at this church is we
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  started off with three people and getting into, you know, multiple campuses
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  and all that. We have only taught expository. We've done 26 books of the
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  Bible, something like that. I joke around with people that if you're with me for
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  another 30 years or so, we're gonna get through that whole book. But in the
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  spirit of authenticity, I'm gonna tell you where I'm at personally in my life. I
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  am at a place in my life to where I am just looking for honest dialogue. I don't
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  care who it's with. I don't care the medium. I don't care what kind of music
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  it is or what kind of TV show it is. I'm just looking for someone who is
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  addressing the larger questions with honesty and authenticity. I will go ahead
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  and admit to you, I think the Christian entertainment world does a very terrible
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  job at this. I think the only thing worse than Christian music is Christian movies.
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  I think they're awful, and I'm not saying that to be a shock value up here. I'm
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  just being transparent with you. And so what I have found is two very
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  interesting things in the last year that have provoked a lot of questions in me
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  and a lot of conversation about faith and what it means to live and what it
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  means to die. And the first one is there's a show on Netflix, and I'm
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  very reluctant to recommend this, so I'm not recommending it. I'm just telling you
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  I watched it, called Midnight Mass. It's about a priest in a small fishing
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  village that shows up, and there's an atheist that used to be a Christian that
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  committed vehicular homicide. And this young charismatic priest comes in, and
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  people on this island start getting healed, miraculously healed, throw
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  vampires into the mix, right? That's part of the show. And there's a lot of
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  swearing, and there's a lot of blood, and it may have some of the best dialogue on
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  religion and faith in the afterlife of anything I've ever seen in my life. It is
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  made by an agnostic man who is known for his horror films, and it was absolutely
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  provocative. It was deep. It was challenging. There were times I had to
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  pause the show because I was crying. It was very, very moving and amazing. Another
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  thing that has really moved me in the last year is one of my favorite bands is
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  The Killers from Las Vegas, Nevada, and they put out a new album that quite
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  honestly sounds nothing like all of the rest of their work. It's very Bruce
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  Springsteen-esque, which is fine, but it's not what I expected. But it's a concept
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  album about a small Mormon town in Utah, and the album addresses addiction, and it
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  addresses the temptation to leave your wife, and it addresses the fact that
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  people believe in a God, but when we look up, we just see clouds, and we just
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  see the sky, and it is very, very deep. It even calls the kingdom of God a
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  pressure machine, and at first I'm kind of offended by that, but I'm like, wow. No,
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  there is this hard road that we walk as believers, and this
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  pressure to take every step and make it a good one, and it is very, very
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  difficult, and so it has really touched a part of my heart that I'm just like, man,
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  I don't think I've ever felt anything of the Christian world that has really
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  provoked me like that. And so this is the problem I'm kind of presenting to you
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  guys today. Right now in the United States, in America, people who are looking
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  for honest and authentic conversation are not going to the church to find
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  these kinds of answers. Well, Corey, how dare you? I dare say that because every
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  single statistic and study shows this. The largest group of demographic rising
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  right now in the United States is nuns, N-O-N-E-S. The fastest declining group or
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  demographic in the United States is Christianity. No one puts out the filth
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  that the United States does. No one puts out the vitriol that the United States
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  does. No nation on earth is as pluralistic and evil as the United
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  States right now. It is just a fact, and we can put our heads in the sands all
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  day long, but numbers don't lie to us on this. Instead, where people who are
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  digging for truth are going to find at least the question. I'm not always saying
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  the answer because I don't believe these men necessarily have the answers, but I
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  believe these men are at least asking the proper questions that will
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  eventually lead to some form of truth. And most of your churches, if you
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  talk to the 20-somethings, what is the greatest theologian or voice on
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  theology that you listen to, they're not going to tell you a Christian. They're
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  going to tell you a guy like Jordan Peterson who's an agnostic. When you talk
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  about who is more fair about politics right now and addressing the toughest
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  issues when it comes to our political climate, it's guys like Bill Maher. He's
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  an atheist, a pretty crude one in fact, but right now he's maybe the most fair
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  commentator on politics in the United States. It's crazy. Guys like Joe Rogan
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  who have the most subscriptions on their podcast than any other human that's ever
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  lived. And of course right now Dave Chappelle, a Muslim. He's been a Muslim
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  since 1991 and more people are listening to what he is saying about the state of
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  our culture than any Christian teacher right now in the United States. So if
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  none of these men acknowledge the Word of God is the source of ultimate truth, we
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  have to ask why in the heck are so many millions of people in the United
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  States and people who are seeking answers, why are they going to these
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  individuals and not going to the local church? Maybe a part of that answer, I
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  think there's a lot of it, but maybe a part of that answer lies in the fact
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  that the church in the United States has completely compromised its integrity. We
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  have pandered to the same methods of reaching people, right, as the same
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  culture that we demonize for being evil. It doesn't look any different. The church
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  does not look any different than the world. That's why the divorce rate in
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  church is essentially the same as the divorce rate in the secular world.
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  That's why even things like assault and crime, right, and things like that are
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  almost as prevalent in Christian communities as they are outside of
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  Christian communities. Because our marketing, right, our lack of conversation,
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  our lack of any kind of depth, right, we're not talking about real things. So
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  when Fifty Shades of Grey comes out, instead of us talking honest
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  conversation about sex, right, a bunch of pastors create a Fifty Shades of Grace.
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  We're gonna do that. That'll get them. That'll teach people, right? It's funny,
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  but it's true. Mega church is teaching these ridiculous things. So instead of
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  actually meeting the conversation where it's at, instead of actually
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  addressing the issue where it's at, we put on a sideshow. And I'm gonna tell you
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  what, it's never gonna be as good as the show that the world puts on. But we keep
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  trying to compete. We have self-serving programs. Christianity has created
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  celebrity culture no different than the world around you. I won't say his name
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  because I have no desire to defame people, but one of the most prominent
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  Christian voices right now, my wife was looking through my Facebook. She doesn't
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  have one, so she just looks through mine. Looks who was looking through videos on
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  Facebook the other day and saw this very, very prominent young pastor. And I kid
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  you not, for five minutes all he did was go, man, you people are turning this way.
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  You're turning this way. And he's yelling. Everyone's like, we're turning,
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  right? And he goes, but you need to be turning this way. And my wife goes, what
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  in the heck is he talking about? And I said, I don't know, but he's really famous.
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  He's worth millions of dollars, right? And I don't know what he's talking about.
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  It's extremely shallow. It is celebrity culture. It is a very disingenuous love.
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  If I've learned anything about Christianity in the United States in the
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  last two years is that we really don't love as much as we broadcast we love. I
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  love you until you ask me to put a mask on. I love you until I find out you're a
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  Democrat. I love you until you disagree with my audiology, right? It is the same
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  conditional love that the world has except the opposite, right? And we have
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  become very disingenuous. Is it a surprise that people are not going to
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  the church for answers? No, it should not be a surprise at all when you step back
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  with an objective eye and look at the church. It looks like a circus. It
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  looks like a carnival sideshow and there's no depth to it because instead
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  of the church, I'm talking about all of us in here, instead of the church
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  changing culture and being the Matthew 5 salt and light of the earth, the church
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  has just become another product of the culture. Like I said, we've become
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  self-serving. We are insincere. We are terrified of hard conversations. I've had
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  people leave this church before because I've said things like, we're going to
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  address pornography in this church. Oh, we're gone. We're gone. We're out. I'm
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  like, man, you're so offended. But statistically speaking, 70% of all
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  Christian men have had an addiction to porn. And maybe the reason why that
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  number is so high is because churches are so terrified to be real that we
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  don't talk about the issues. We don't talk about things like, guys, if we're
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  being honest in this room, sometimes it's difficult to call yourself a believer.
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  Everyone in this room at one time in your life, I guarantee you, will look in
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  the mirror and say, am I crazy for believing what I believe? Seriously.
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  Sometimes it is hard. Sometimes it is what the Mormon singer of killers said.
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  It's a pressure machine. It is tough and sometimes we fail. But because we make,
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  you know, God's Not Dead Part 12 or whatever, and everyone's happy and
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  content, and the good guy always wins, and everyone gets healed, and everyone's
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  doing fine, and the bills are always paid. And then when we live real life and
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  we're like, that's not always how it shakes down. So it feels fake, doesn't it?
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  It feels shallow, doesn't it? And 70% of Christians are still addicted to porn at
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  one time in their life. And we have droves of high school, used to be college kids,
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  left in droves. Now it's high school and middle school kids leaving droves.
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  Because we won't talk about the real things. We won't even have the real
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  conversations anymore. Now listen, we can have good intentions, and we use this
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  word authentic quite a bit. And authentic has become kind of a buzzword. And it's
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  become more of a buzzword than actual lifestyle. You have a bunch of clowns up
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  there saying, be authentic, and you're wearing $2,000 shoes, and you know, like
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  you spent three hours to look like you just rolled out of bed. And these guys
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  who are really showmen and not pastors, correct? Hey, just be authentic. And I'm
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  like, wait a second, man. We can't all afford $3,000 like jeans like you're
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  wearing, right? What are we talking about? Be authentic. God's good. Well,
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  heck yeah, God's good to you. You live in a mansion. Some of us are having a hard
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  time paying the mortgage. Let's talk like we're real people for a second. And so
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  here's the thing. We speak of this word authentic. But the problem is, is the
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  church for many, many decades, this is not a new problem. We have moved away
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  from this book. And there's a lot of churches that say, yeah, we teach the
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  Bible. I said, well, what book did you just teach? Well, I used one passage from
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  Proverbs, twisted the holy hell out of it to prove a point, right? And get more
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  people to give to our church because that's the mission, right? When are we
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  going to get back to this? We have bought into some kind of lie that the church
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  can make this sexier than what it is, to make it more applicable to people's
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  lives than what it is. And because we have moved away from the tether, because
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  we have moved away from this, because John chapter 1 says the word was with
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  God and the word was God and the audacity that the church does not teach
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  this, that it does not stick to this. Maybe a part of the solution is not only
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  a strong presentation of this, but a strong reliance of the principles of
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  this book and in addressing the hard things in it. Cory, how dare you say it's
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  sometimes hard to be a Christian? I dare say it because John the Baptist was in
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  jail and he said, someone needs to find me Jesus because if I'm gonna lose my
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  head for this guy, I want to make sure it's the right dude. That's Bible. John's
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  saying, hey, sometimes it's hard to believe. And you know what Jesus said
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  when everyone made fun of John for saying that? There was no better man than
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  John the Baptist, right? That's what Jesus said. Because sometimes it's a pressure
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  machine, is it not? Sometimes it is hard. So here's the thing, we cannot avoid the
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  world. You cannot avoid putting your family in the world. You cannot avoid
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  your marriage being exposed to the world. You cannot avoid the world. So the
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  aim of the church should not be isolation because isolation is impossible.
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  And even if it were possible, it's not what Jesus
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  commanded us to do. Go out like sheep among wolves, go out two by two, go out
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  like the lamb to the slaughter. You're supposed to go out there. The darkness
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  just remains dark unless the light is out amongst it, right? And so we're to not
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  isolate. The key is the insulation of the Holy Spirit and the insulation of
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  the teachings of this book. And if we will be insulated and not isolated, we
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  can go out and we can live in this world. We can be inviting to all people. We can
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  have tough conversations. We can be honest without compromising our biblical
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  integrity. And this is the tension that Jesus has called us to live in, right? To
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  welcome anyone through these doors, anyone through these doors. I don't care
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  what you've done or what you're doing. Come into these doors. But we're gonna
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  teach you this and we're gonna live by this and we're gonna be tethered to this,
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  right? And this is the tension that we hold on to. So again, I have not presented
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  to you much of a solution except for the Word of God, but that should already be
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  in your minds. Here is my my last point. Speaking of authenticity and honesty, the
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  pursuit of honest conversation, the pursuit of authentic lives, authenticity,
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  will lead to the pursuit of truth. And if Jesus is correct, right, if those who
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  seek will find, the pursuit of truth, I believe, will inevitably lead to Jesus.
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  That doesn't mean everyone accepts, but it will eventually lead to the
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  conversation of Christ. But it starts with authenticity. And so my question is,
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  are we Christians? Are we disciple makers? Are we pastors, leaders, whatever your
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  lot is in all of this? Are we opening up the doors where someone feels
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  comfortable enough to come to us and say, man, sometimes I just don't get it.
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  Brother, sometimes I don't either, right? Let's talk about it. Let's pray about it.
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  Let's go back to the Word about it. It's okay to have these conversations, but
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  let's work through it. Are we presenting an experience where people can come and
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  at least ask the questions, right? Are we presenting this kind of conversation?
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  Last thing, and I'm already two minutes over. At the end of every single service
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  we do, at all four services, I always have one of our pastors stand over here to my
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  right, the congregations left, and I say, right, at all four services, if there's
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  anyone in this room who is atheist, agnostic, has questions, if you are
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  searching, if you're just here, you don't even know why, but you stumbled into this
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  place, if you have any questions, please. We are not afraid of questions. We are
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  not afraid of hard conversations. Please come talk to one of our pastors. We do
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  this at every single service because the door has to be open for us to be genuine
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  and to talk and to say, man, sometimes life is pretty rough, right? But
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  thankfully this is not our eternal home, right? That's it for me. If you, listen,
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  I'm not trying to sell you a book, but if you haven't read it, I felt like God
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  gave it to me and it kind of presents ways to deal with this a little bit. It's
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  the whole point of the book, but if I can pray for you before I leave, thank you
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  for the opportunity. Thank you for being here. Father, Lord, we love you. God, we
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  thank you, Lord. Thank you for everyone in this room, God. I pray, Lord, that you just
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  give us the courage, Lord, to ask hard questions, to have conversations, Lord, to
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  be humble enough to say, we don't know sometimes, but God is good. Lord, just be
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  with us as we engage a world that is so confused and so broken, but also, Lord,
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  there are so many people looking for a solution. They're looking for an answer.
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  God, open up our eyes, open up our ears to see these individuals, God, and to love
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  these individuals and to reach out to these individuals, Lord. We love you. We
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  thank you. Keep everyone safe on their way home, God. In Jesus' name, amen. God bless you guys.
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  Thank you guys for joining in on this episode on the Real Life Theology
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  podcast. I hope you've enjoyed this journey as we've shared some really
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  great content from past Renew gatherings. Please stay up-to-date with us. You can
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  visit us at Renew.org for some great content on theology and disciple-making.
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  I hope to see you guys on the next episode.