Latest / The Late Debate / The Late Debate | 30 April

Transcript

The Late Debate | 30 April · The Late Debate

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Lately.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Late Pay.
• 0:06
  Speaker 3: Great to have your company.
• 0:07
  Speaker 4: I'm James Macpherson with Liz Storer and Joe Hildebrand coming
• 0:11
  Speaker 4: up tonight. The campaign endorsement Anthony Albanese did not want
• 0:15
  Speaker 4: turns out you really don't want everyone voting for you.
• 0:18
  Speaker 4: We'll explain why a little later. Plus when we look
• 0:21
  Speaker 4: at the papers. The Courier Mail has a front page
• 0:23
  Speaker 4: story tomorrow with new polling showing labor surging ahead, and
• 0:28
  Speaker 4: activist Noel Pearson reckons there's too much Indigenous cultural studies
• 0:33
  Speaker 4: in our school curriculum and it needs to be pared back.
• 0:36
  Speaker 4: We'll get to all of that a little later. But first,
• 0:39
  Speaker 4: I always thought we lived in a free country. I thought,
• 0:43
  Speaker 4: especially during an election campaign, we were free to talk
• 0:46
  Speaker 4: about matters of public policy. I thought we lived in
• 0:50
  Speaker 4: Australia rather than say, you know, China. But check out
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: what happened today outside of polling booth in the Victorian
• 0:57
  Speaker 4: electorate of Jagger Jagger, a Family First Senate candidate, was
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: told by an Australian Electoral Commission worker that she wasn't
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: allowed to advertise her policies because well, some people just
• 1:09
  Speaker 4: didn't like them.
• 1:11
  Speaker 5: I've had a few people who are quite upset.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: I just want to speak to about what you're speaking
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: to them.
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: What about speaking about.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: About late term abortions? Okay, you don't like that. It's
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: not my opinion. It's a horrible thing, though, and that's
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: why I want to stop it.
• 1:26
  Speaker 6: If I ask you, if you would like to speak
• 1:28
  Speaker 6: to everybody that your policies, you're more than welcome to.
• 1:31
  Speaker 7: But just that point before now, if I can please.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Ask, can I.
• 1:36
  Speaker 7: Elsey every other of you?
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: I'm not allowed to mention abortion just for now. I've
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: had some compaignts and I just want to run it
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: up the cheam.
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: Okay, you wouldn't mind, thank you now.
• 1:46
  Speaker 4: That video went viral after it was posted online by
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: Adelaide law professor doctor Joanna Howe, and then doctor Howe
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: became a target of the Electoral Commissions penchant for censorship.
• 1:57
  Speaker 4: They posted a message on her Instagram age, I'll read
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: it for you. We're respectfully asking you to take the
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: video down from this person's p for this person's privacy.
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: They're a hard working temporary officer doing her best to
• 2:10
  Speaker 4: fulfill her role in a complicated environment. Maybe someone needs
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: to tell the Australian Electoral Commission. It's really not that complicated.
• 2:19
  Speaker 4: Whether you're pro abortion or anti abortion, you have the
• 2:22
  Speaker 4: right to put forward your position, especially when you're standing
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: for public office. Rather than respectfully requesting the video be
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: taken down, perhaps the Electoral Commission should respectfully be thanking
• 2:34
  Speaker 4: doctor Johannah Howe for bringing it to their attention and
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: respectfully apologizing to the Family First candidate for getting in
• 2:41
  Speaker 4: the way of her communicating her policies as she's perfectly
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: entitled to do.
• 2:46
  Speaker 8: Liz indeed, well, this is an election interference, period, plain
• 2:51
  Speaker 8: and simple, which is the very antithesis of the AEC's remit.
• 2:57
  Speaker 8: They should have in fact apologized and said obviously, this
• 3:00
  Speaker 8: girl hasn't been trained properly. As someone who's worked in state,
• 3:03
  Speaker 8: federal and local governments for over eight years, that person
• 3:07
  Speaker 8: being me, I have seen all kinds of biffs on
• 3:11
  Speaker 8: polling booths, pre polling especially, it gets incredibly fiery, people
• 3:15
  Speaker 8: have massive arguments, but I have never once seen in
• 3:18
  Speaker 8: person or in the media an AEC representative telling a
• 3:24
  Speaker 8: candidate to shut up about their own policies. Oh, you're
• 3:29
  Speaker 8: making people uncomfortable, Well, good congratulations that means those people
• 3:34
  Speaker 8: still have a soul.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: This year's a federal election issue. The other side of
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: this debate.
• 3:41
  Speaker 8: Forty pro abortion organizations have lobbied the federal government and
• 3:46
  Speaker 8: let them know that whoever wins.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Government this time round, they're.
• 3:50
  Speaker 8: Demanding that they fulfill all their demands.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: But you get one pro.
• 3:54
  Speaker 8: Life voice, one person giving a voice to the voiceless,
• 3:58
  Speaker 8: one person sticking up for the almost round about. We
• 4:03
  Speaker 8: don't get exact numbers for obvious reasons, but approximately eighty
• 4:07
  Speaker 8: thousand babies a.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: Year in Australia who are terminated.
• 4:11
  Speaker 8: Just one person, and all of a sudden, you've got
• 4:14
  Speaker 8: the AEC flying in the face of their own remit
• 4:17
  Speaker 8: to get this woman to shut up at all costs.
• 4:21
  Speaker 8: It's an absolute disgrace. They should have come out and
• 4:24
  Speaker 8: simply said sorry, we do acknowledge that this is the
• 4:28
  Speaker 8: very opposite of what AEC stands for, and our jobs
• 4:33
  Speaker 8: on pre polling booths and polling booths on the day
• 4:36
  Speaker 8: we apologize this person's now being retrained.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: That was the only appropriate.
• 4:41
  Speaker 8: Response, and instead they've turned around after people have been
• 4:46
  Speaker 8: concerned about the freedom of speech happening at pre polling booths,
• 4:50
  Speaker 8: and then ask the pre eminent pro life voice in Australia,
• 4:53
  Speaker 8: doctor Joanna Howe, to help cover up what they did by.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Taking down their pos. Irony is dead.
• 5:03
  Speaker 8: It's it's completely unforgivable, Joe, I think.
• 5:06
  Speaker 9: Fair enough to say, you know, I don't reveal the
• 5:08
  Speaker 9: identity of the worker, who is obviously quite young. And
• 5:11
  Speaker 9: obviously all the people who work on these booths, they're
• 5:13
  Speaker 9: doing it just on a temporary basis, so they're not
• 5:15
  Speaker 9: people who work for AAS.
• 5:16
  Speaker 8: But they are trained not to tell candidates not to spruit.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Their lawful you were things.
• 5:22
  Speaker 9: I mean, look, obviously it's very it's very concerning if
• 5:25
  Speaker 9: that is in fact what is happening and that's been done.
• 5:28
  Speaker 9: But she did say, look, I just need to speak
• 5:30
  Speaker 9: to my supervisor. Would you mind just not doing it
• 5:32
  Speaker 9: for now till I can get some direction on this.
• 5:34
  Speaker 9: So I don't know if it's the end of the world,
• 5:35
  Speaker 9: and we don't. I don't do we know what decision
• 5:37
  Speaker 9: was ultimately made. I don't know if we do. But
• 5:40
  Speaker 9: but I think the real the real story here and
• 5:43
  Speaker 9: the real villains is not the AAC worker, but Jagga
• 5:47
  Speaker 9: Jagger is a seat based around sort of inner Melbourne,
• 5:49
  Speaker 9: around the sort of city of Durbin, which is very,
• 5:52
  Speaker 9: very heavily green tinged. I think they've probably already signed
• 5:55
  Speaker 9: their own treaty and they're always getting in, They're always
• 5:58
  Speaker 9: doing exciting new things with theirsh collection to make it
• 6:01
  Speaker 9: more sustainable. But so I suspect that there'd be a
• 6:05
  Speaker 9: lot of kind of vexatious complainants, very much to the
• 6:10
  Speaker 9: left of the political spectrum, who have made a boy
• 6:14
  Speaker 9: the sort of people who would say, sorry, this is
• 6:15
  Speaker 9: very triggering for me. So I think it's actually them
• 6:18
  Speaker 9: who the blame should be leveled at, rather than a
• 6:22
  Speaker 9: young worker, a young temporary worker who is just trying
• 6:24
  Speaker 9: to respond to this sort of avalanche of compliance. And
• 6:27
  Speaker 9: as I said, if you wouldn't mind just not doing
• 6:29
  Speaker 9: it for now, please.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: Not talk about your policies. I mean, that's utterly that's
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: a joke.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: Again. But if the final decision of the AE.
• 6:38
  Speaker 8: Worker honestly thought that was appropriate, then she must have
• 6:41
  Speaker 8: received no training whatsoever.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: But she would have just received the complaint.
• 6:46
  Speaker 9: She wouldn't have known what the what the person had
• 6:48
  Speaker 9: been saying, God knows what these sort of these sort
• 6:51
  Speaker 9: of hysterical hypercarens were saying about what the.
• 6:54
  Speaker 4: And I reckon it must have been Hypercarens, because when
• 6:57
  Speaker 4: you listen to the response of the family first can
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: this seems very She seemed very polite and pretty reasonable
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: considering she was being told to shut up about her
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: own policies. Indeed, so I thought she treated the AEC
• 7:09
  Speaker 4: worker with absolute politeness. So I struggle to believe that
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: any complaints about that can that would have been because
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: the candidate was being rude or aggressive.
• 7:18
  Speaker 8: Indeed, and hats off to Ray Rancy there in Victoria,
• 7:22
  Speaker 8: in the seat of Jagga Jagger.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: You are in hater heartland.
• 7:27
  Speaker 8: Strength to your arm to Spain now where Spanish news
• 7:31
  Speaker 8: broadcasts are going to be police to ensure that men
• 7:35
  Speaker 8: and women on news programs get the same amount.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: Of talking time.
• 7:40
  Speaker 8: Yes, this is an actual law that has been passed
• 7:44
  Speaker 8: we read today. According to the law, new casts must
• 7:48
  Speaker 8: newscasts rather must convey an equal and non discriminatory image
• 7:53
  Speaker 8: of men and women. They are not permitted to promote
• 7:56
  Speaker 8: directly or indirectly situations of discrimination based on sex. The CIMAC,
• 8:02
  Speaker 8: which is their National Commission on Markets and Competition, will
• 8:07
  Speaker 8: review between eight hundred and one thousand and fifteen minute clips,
• 8:11
  Speaker 8: which will be reviewed by a consulting firm that has
• 8:14
  Speaker 8: been provided with one hundred and twenty one thousand euros
• 8:18
  Speaker 8: for both twenty twenty five and twenty twenty six. So
• 8:22
  Speaker 8: they're going to be monitoring Spanish news the two hundred
• 8:27
  Speaker 8: and fifty hours of broadcasting per year to ensure that
• 8:31
  Speaker 8: men haven't talked more than women, women haven't talked more
• 8:35
  Speaker 8: than men. I actually think this is not going to
• 8:38
  Speaker 8: work in women's favor when we're all reminded of just
• 8:43
  Speaker 8: last week on the ABC and Micas Sucker's Michael Sucker's
• 8:48
  Speaker 8: disgraceful treatment by the women there.
• 8:52
  Speaker 6: Michael Sooker, you say you're going to do it. We
• 8:54
  Speaker 6: know how many houses you've built while you were in
• 8:57
  Speaker 6: government in that area. It was a few thousand, but
• 8:59
  Speaker 6: now it wasn't a.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: Few thou Sorry, Sarah, I'll get my chance. You will
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: correct the record on that.
• 9:03
  Speaker 6: Let me just get I'm going to ask you one
• 9:04
  Speaker 6: more time, and everyone is listening to me, ask this question,
• 9:07
  Speaker 6: how many social and affordable houses will you build?
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: Well, we will fund social and for right.
• 9:13
  Speaker 10: That's it.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: You're not I'm not getting an answer. You'll get an
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: answer out of me.
• 9:17
  Speaker 6: A minute.
• 9:18
  Speaker 8: We've done a hute shortage of housing around our country.
• 9:21
  Speaker 8: I'm pretty sure this is going to mean women in
• 9:24
  Speaker 8: Spain on news programs have to talk less and won't
• 9:28
  Speaker 8: get to talk more.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: I find it incredibly funny.
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: What I find incredible is that you took over a
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: minute thirty for that introduction. I took only just over
• 9:37
  Speaker 4: two minutes to introduce the entire show plus a topic.
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: So I don't know. Maybe these laws could work the
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: other way.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Listen, that's what I mean. I think that's going to
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: be the outcome.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: I'm very excited.
• 9:47
  Speaker 9: I can't wait for them to be introduced in Australia
• 9:49
  Speaker 9: so that Brodman Bishop will finally.
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: Let me speak.
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: The Spanish government are regarding this, if you allow men
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: to speak more than women on a news program as quote,
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: a very serious offense, and networks face fines of up
• 10:04
  Speaker 4: to two point six million Australian dollars if they violate
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: the laws. What's amazing to me is that you don't
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: need government to do this. We've got broadcasters in the
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: UK and then Australia who want to do it to themselves.
• 10:17
  Speaker 4: The BBC a few years ago set up a system
• 10:21
  Speaker 4: to keep track of which genders and which ethnicities were
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: represented in TV programs to make sure there was equity,
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: and SBS back when they reported that said, then I
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: quote this is from an SBS journalist. Surprisingly, there are
• 10:36
  Speaker 4: no rules on gender or ethnicity based diversity enforced in Australia.
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: So you've got SBS journalists being surprised that the government
• 10:45
  Speaker 4: aren't mandating certain quotas of different people being represented on television.
• 10:50
  Speaker 9: From a memory that would have wiped out about half
• 10:53
  Speaker 9: the SBS.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: Board because.
• 10:56
  Speaker 9: They got a little bit of trouble for being white
• 10:58
  Speaker 9: of at a polar bear and a snowstorm. But he's
• 11:01
  Speaker 9: pretty I just I just find it very weird that
• 11:03
  Speaker 9: we are just sort of ticking boxes based on gender
• 11:06
  Speaker 9: or sex or digging into people's ethnic makeup. You know,
• 11:10
  Speaker 9: we're going to get the DNA background next or whatever.
• 11:13
  Speaker 9: I remember recently someone came to me and wanted to
• 11:19
  Speaker 9: into me as part of a sort of panel show
• 11:22
  Speaker 9: whatever you want to call it, at the south By
• 11:24
  Speaker 9: Southwest Festival that was coming to Sydney, and they have
• 11:27
  Speaker 9: a thing now and I was quite surprised. They sent
• 11:29
  Speaker 9: me the application to fill out and they have a
• 11:33
  Speaker 9: question that says, what is your racial background?
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: And and you actually have to fill it.
• 11:37
  Speaker 9: Now, this is the sort of thing that used to
• 11:39
  Speaker 9: be done in a part of South Africa.
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: You know, are you a colored? Are you a black?
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: Are you a white? Are you an Indian?
• 11:47
  Speaker 9: I mean, I just I just found I mean maybe
• 11:49
  Speaker 9: it was like a sort of you know, a re
• 11:52
  Speaker 9: education for me so I could under understand what it
• 11:55
  Speaker 9: liked to be right Anyway, I knew as soon as
• 11:57
  Speaker 9: I finished, as I filled it out, there was absolutely
• 11:59
  Speaker 9: no way in hell that's going anywhere near that fest
• 12:02
  Speaker 9: of all. I just fill out. You know, aryan superman
• 12:05
  Speaker 9: and you've.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: Got a changeo.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: You could easily make something up about you.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: I did know. I did something.
• 12:12
  Speaker 9: I think I said something like, you know, self hating
• 12:14
  Speaker 9: Irish Catholic who everybody thinks he is Jewish.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: I didn't get through it.
• 12:19
  Speaker 4: I've talked before about a mate of mine who worked
• 12:21
  Speaker 4: for the ABC and he wanted to go for a promotion.
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: But as he was filling out the documents to apply
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: for it, one of the criteria was what diversity characteristics
• 12:29
  Speaker 4: would you bring to the role. The poor guy couldn't
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: think of any but what a waste of taxpayer money.
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: The Spanish government will actually use taxpayer money to pay
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: consultants to sit and just trawl through hours and hours
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: of news footage calculating who talks for how long and
• 12:46
  Speaker 4: whether or not it's fair. I mean, you would be
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: irate when you're a taxpayer that's how your money's being spent.
• 12:52
  Speaker 8: Now, I can't wait to see the results because I
• 12:54
  Speaker 8: think it will show that we women, as we're famous for,
• 12:58
  Speaker 8: do talk more than the men to robots. Now, Elon
• 13:02
  Speaker 8: Musk has said that just within a matter of years,
• 13:06
  Speaker 8: robots are going to replace the best surgeons in the world.
• 13:12
  Speaker 8: He tweeted just yesterday robots will surpass good human surgeons
• 13:16
  Speaker 8: within a few years and the best human surgeons within
• 13:20
  Speaker 8: five years.
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Neuralink, that's his.
• 13:23
  Speaker 8: Own company, had to use a robot for the brain
• 13:26
  Speaker 8: computer electrode insertion that's a brain.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: Chip, as it was impossible for a human to.
• 13:32
  Speaker 8: Achieve the required speed end presition. This is on the
• 13:37
  Speaker 8: back of Medtronic Hugo. They've called it robotic assisted surgery,
• 13:43
  Speaker 8: which is now all the rage.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: They're sprooking their new robotics.
• 13:47
  Speaker 8: This picture of the mockup of what they're actually doing
• 13:51
  Speaker 8: with the robot isn't very reassuring, but they do tell
• 13:54
  Speaker 8: us it is now performed over one hundred and thirty
• 13:58
  Speaker 8: seven lie on real people surgeries without a hitch. And
• 14:05
  Speaker 8: when you look at this next video and the precision
• 14:07
  Speaker 8: in which these robots can make incisions and make stitches
• 14:13
  Speaker 8: and do all the fine finicky things surgeons do, you
• 14:17
  Speaker 8: wonder if they're right.
• 14:20
  Speaker 11: This is Sony's surgical robot which can perform microsurgery with
• 14:24
  Speaker 11: great precision. To demonstrate its procedure, a small cut was
• 14:28
  Speaker 11: made on a corn grain which the robot stitched with
• 14:31
  Speaker 11: great precision. This robot has been specially designed for performing
• 14:35
  Speaker 11: super microsurgery, which allows surgeons to operate on extremely small
• 14:40
  Speaker 11: vessels of less than one millimeter. For this, a specialist
• 14:44
  Speaker 11: with experience and steady hands is usually required.
• 14:49
  Speaker 8: Imagine being a surgeon in training at the moment, that's
• 14:52
  Speaker 8: eleven to thirteen years of training here in Australia that
• 14:57
  Speaker 8: you've undergone to finally work on live and do whatever
• 15:01
  Speaker 8: they need done, and you've just learned within five years Mate,
• 15:05
  Speaker 8: you're going to be redundant.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Joe, how would you take it?
• 15:09
  Speaker 9: Well, look, I've got a lot of concerns with this.
• 15:10
  Speaker 9: Thank you very much for raising it, Liz, because this
• 15:12
  Speaker 9: is the sort of brave new world we're facing, and
• 15:14
  Speaker 9: other mainstream media outlets simply do not give it the
• 15:17
  Speaker 9: attention it deserves.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: Firstly, if we could go back to.
• 15:20
  Speaker 9: Elon Musk's original tweet, the graphic that we showed you
• 15:25
  Speaker 9: right up the top of the show, Elon Musk says,
• 15:28
  Speaker 9: robots will surpass good human surgeons within a few years,
• 15:32
  Speaker 9: and the best human surgeons within five years.
• 15:36
  Speaker 12: Shouldn't we be replacing the worst human surgeons?
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: What are we doing replacing the best ones?
• 15:41
  Speaker 12: They're the best, which will be starting with the bad ones.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: And you know what happens.
• 15:45
  Speaker 12: When you start replacing the good ones, is that the
• 15:48
  Speaker 12: bad ones you get to The next video that we saw,
• 15:51
  Speaker 12: which was a robot that's so bad at surgery it
• 15:55
  Speaker 12: thinks to the human is a cop of corn.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: They're very different.
• 16:00
  Speaker 12: One's a human being and the other's corn, and the
• 16:03
  Speaker 12: Roman can't even tell the.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: Difference, and sity there trying to stitch up the corn.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: The cord's fine anyway.
• 16:11
  Speaker 9: Thankfully, we also caught a glimpse of just how this
• 16:14
  Speaker 9: technology could be applied. In fact, as you know, I
• 16:18
  Speaker 9: always do my research, and I've actually found video evidence
• 16:22
  Speaker 9: of this surgery being applied not to a cob of corn,
• 16:26
  Speaker 9: but to a real, live human being. This is the facts, people,
• 16:29
  Speaker 9: This is what you won't see elsewhere. Now, notwithstanding the
• 16:49
  Speaker 9: kind of creepy way that Luke checked out his sister
• 16:51
  Speaker 9: as she was walking out the door, that I think
• 16:54
  Speaker 9: is a much better application of robot surgery than cutting
• 16:59
  Speaker 9: up corn.
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: Is this really replacing surgeons or is this just robot
• 17:04
  Speaker 4: assisted surgery?
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: We have that already.
• 17:07
  Speaker 8: We have that already, and the doctors using it love
• 17:11
  Speaker 8: it because they can do incredible things in tandem with
• 17:16
  Speaker 8: the technology that is available to still need just talking
• 17:20
  Speaker 8: about the robots themselves being the surgeon, but you would.
• 17:24
  Speaker 4: Still need a human being surgeon on hand if things
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: go wrong. Surely robots couldn't anticipate every complication, as so
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: often happens in an operating theater. My concern would be
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: less about surgeons being replaced, because I'm not sure that
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: would ever happen. But robots operating don't have a sense
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: of compassion, don't have the same judgment or ethics that
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: a human being has I'm not sure I want to
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: be operated on by someone who is only cognizant of algorithms.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: Rather than you know, my this is human welfare.
• 17:59
  Speaker 9: This is the theory that always just blows my mind
• 18:02
  Speaker 9: because what happens is not so much the robots who
• 18:04
  Speaker 9: are doing the actual surgery, but what happens if AI
• 18:07
  Speaker 9: gets to the point. So you know, Isaac Asimov has
• 18:09
  Speaker 9: got his first law of robotics, which is that you
• 18:11
  Speaker 9: can do no harm to humans or whatever. But what
• 18:13
  Speaker 9: if you had an AI that was told, right, your
• 18:16
  Speaker 9: number one priority, no matter what, is to save human life,
• 18:19
  Speaker 9: it's to save the human race.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: How long would it be.
• 18:22
  Speaker 9: Before that robot says, right, we are so overpopulated that
• 18:26
  Speaker 9: the planet is going to use up all its resources
• 18:29
  Speaker 9: and it turns into Thanos from the Marvel movies. Or indeed,
• 18:33
  Speaker 9: you know what happens if a robot surgeon has someone
• 18:37
  Speaker 9: and decides that actually, it's quality of life after the
• 18:39
  Speaker 9: surgery would be so poor that would be better off dead,
• 18:42
  Speaker 9: and the robot just and again, this is not a
• 18:45
  Speaker 9: decision that the robot surgeon would make in the operating theater.
• 18:48
  Speaker 9: And by the way, do you know they can stitch
• 18:49
  Speaker 9: up blood vessels that are half a millimeter. I mean,
• 18:54
  Speaker 9: that's amazing, even you know, even like you know, Charlie
• 18:58
  Speaker 9: T I can't do that, So that is because amazing.
• 19:01
  Speaker 9: But again, what if you have robots just making all
• 19:05
  Speaker 9: these you kind of I don't know.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: There's something really.
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: Terrifying rational in operating theater, especially if it's an emergency operation,
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: that you want a human being making those decisions, not
• 19:16
  Speaker 4: a pre programmed computer.
• 19:18
  Speaker 8: Well, what you're saying, Joe, is that ultimately there'll be
• 19:21
  Speaker 8: far more utilitarian. That's right, Yes, Ultimately, this person's a burden,
• 19:27
  Speaker 8: and therefore, or.
• 19:28
  Speaker 9: The robot will say, I know how many people I have,
• 19:31
  Speaker 9: you know, I am like deep thought or like hol
• 19:34
  Speaker 9: In two thousand and one or whatever. I know how
• 19:37
  Speaker 9: many people are waiting for X number of surgeries, And
• 19:40
  Speaker 9: if we expend this amount of time and resources on
• 19:43
  Speaker 9: this person here, we could actually better divert those resources
• 19:47
  Speaker 9: to save ten lives over here instead of this one
• 19:49
  Speaker 9: life here. And therefore it is a perfectly rational decision that.
• 19:53
  Speaker 8: This organ transplant should go to a better recipient.
• 19:57
  Speaker 9: I'm not performed, so that's exactly right, or something I'm
• 19:59
  Speaker 9: operat on a seventy year old.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: And they're hard.
• 20:02
  Speaker 9: And I've just become aware that there is a twelve
• 20:04
  Speaker 9: year old who suddenly needs a heart transplant, and they
• 20:06
  Speaker 9: would have seventy more years than the years I'm giving
• 20:09
  Speaker 9: this person. Therefore, I am saving more life if I
• 20:11
  Speaker 9: cease operating, pick up the heart and bug it in
• 20:14
  Speaker 9: the new kid.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: So the question fix.
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: The question becomes, is AI the beginning of the apocalypse
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: or is it the answer to things like low birth
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: rates in western countries and the need for immigration. KPMG's
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: digital boss John Money seems to think that AI is
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: going to solve a whole lot of problems, especially for
• 20:36
  Speaker 4: Western nations. As I said, with falling birth rates, he said,
• 20:39
  Speaker 4: ultimately the sort of work that we would have traditionally
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: offshore to India will no longer need to offshore as much.
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: We'll keep the revenue here in Australia, obviously because robots
• 20:49
  Speaker 4: will be doing the work we're relying on others to do.
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: He says to me, this has to be it.
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: This has to be the opportunity for us to drive
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: productivity without having to drive immigration. So, for instance, if
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: you've got a warehouse that requires two thousand workers. What
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: if most of it was automated and you only required
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: two hundred workers, Well, then you could have a shrinking
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: birth rate. You wouldn't have to import a workforce from overseas.
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: You just get robots to do the jobs that otherwise
• 21:16
  Speaker 4: would have had to have been done by human beings.
• 21:19
  Speaker 4: And this is exactly the point that Larry Fink, the
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: CEO of Blackrock made.
• 21:24
  Speaker 13: Have a listen, We'll be able to elevate the standard
• 21:27
  Speaker 13: of living in countries and the standard of living of
• 21:29
  Speaker 13: individuals even with shrinking populations. And so the paradigm of
• 21:35
  Speaker 13: negative population growth is going to be changing, and the
• 21:40
  Speaker 13: social problems that one will have in substituting humans from
• 21:45
  Speaker 13: machines is going to be far easier in those countries
• 21:50
  Speaker 13: that have declining populations.
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: Now, I know you don't like Larry Fink, Liz, but
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: what's wrong with what he's.
• 21:56
  Speaker 8: Saying, Well, it is terrify fine, because what we're saying
• 22:01
  Speaker 8: is we're going to need less humans. Which you'll notice
• 22:05
  Speaker 8: in the backdrop there's speaking at the World Economic Forum,
• 22:07
  Speaker 8: which believes that we're so overpopulated, there's too many humans.
• 22:11
  Speaker 8: They're all about population control. So this would be music
• 22:15
  Speaker 8: to their ears. But he said in another part of
• 22:18
  Speaker 8: that speech, this will go very well for what he
• 22:21
  Speaker 8: called xenophobic countries simply because they haven't thrown their borders
• 22:26
  Speaker 8: wide open to people from all around the world. Because
• 22:30
  Speaker 8: again for the same reason they've got shrinking birth rates,
• 22:33
  Speaker 8: they won't need to rely on immigration anymore. Obviously, for
• 22:37
  Speaker 8: a country like Australia, our question is, firstly, once this
• 22:41
  Speaker 8: thing takes off, what are we going to do with
• 22:44
  Speaker 8: the loads of people that we've imported in February two
• 22:48
  Speaker 8: hundred thousand alone, Like we are talking mind blowing numbers
• 22:52
  Speaker 8: that we are funneling into our country. Is it a
• 22:55
  Speaker 8: surprise to anyone that one third of us wasn't even
• 22:58
  Speaker 8: born here in Australia? What are we going to do
• 23:01
  Speaker 8: with all these masses of people When you look at
• 23:05
  Speaker 8: even the highly skilled, so it's not just low skilled
• 23:08
  Speaker 8: like factory workers that robots are going to be able
• 23:11
  Speaker 8: to replace. We're talking highly skilled, as we just did
• 23:14
  Speaker 8: there with surgeons. How many jobs are going to be
• 23:17
  Speaker 8: left for human beings to earn money, put a roof
• 23:20
  Speaker 8: over their heads and provide for their families.
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: There's always been the case, though, hasn't it technology, the
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: superseds the last technology. People have to be retrained, they
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: find new jobs that progress.
• 23:31
  Speaker 9: That's right, and it has always had, I suppose the
• 23:33
  Speaker 9: question is what happens when you hit the sort of
• 23:35
  Speaker 9: event horizon or the tipping point at which robots can
• 23:40
  Speaker 9: effectively replace almost They're better at everything, almost all human activity.
• 23:44
  Speaker 9: And again what Larry Fingers saying is absolutely terrifying and dystopian,
• 23:50
  Speaker 9: because what he is saying is that in the so
• 23:53
  Speaker 9: the countries with the shrinking populations that are failing to
• 23:56
  Speaker 9: reproduce themselves all the wealthiest Western countries. So he's basically saying,
• 24:01
  Speaker 9: this new resource that will increase your quality of life
• 24:05
  Speaker 9: will only really work in parts of the world that
• 24:08
  Speaker 9: already have the highest quality of life. And the way
• 24:11
  Speaker 9: that it will and the sort of double bottom line,
• 24:15
  Speaker 9: if you like, the extra benefit is that it will
• 24:18
  Speaker 9: remove any anxieties about social cohesion or any xenophobic instincts
• 24:24
  Speaker 9: that people have, because you won't need to bring people
• 24:26
  Speaker 9: in anymore. So it basically it basically says, don't worry xenophobes,
• 24:30
  Speaker 9: We're going to replace migrants with robots, so you don't
• 24:32
  Speaker 9: have to worry about your culture being stolen or whatever,
• 24:36
  Speaker 9: or crime or whatever.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: I do you think that's xenophobic, But well, this is
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: this robots.
• 24:42
  Speaker 9: The point, the point being is that that happens, what
• 24:44
  Speaker 9: about for everyone else in the world, for the vast
• 24:47
  Speaker 9: majority of the world's population, this will be unaffordable. They
• 24:51
  Speaker 9: still have no population deficit, and so they will probably
• 24:55
  Speaker 9: be cheaper and easier to use humans instead of robots
• 24:59
  Speaker 9: for manual labor. In the case of China, obviously forced labor.
• 25:02
  Speaker 8: And although they're leagues ahead of us in Ai, absolutely
• 25:06
  Speaker 8: leaks ahead of.
• 25:06
  Speaker 9: Us in they're also leagues ahead of us in slave labor.
• 25:09
  Speaker 9: But the point being that China has because China has
• 25:13
  Speaker 9: has all this stuff that it's doing, but still it
• 25:15
  Speaker 9: has a much bigger and much poorer population that it
• 25:18
  Speaker 9: has to that it has to deal with, and it
• 25:20
  Speaker 9: does nothing to serve with anything. There's nothing to you know,
• 25:23
  Speaker 9: to deal with poverty in Africa or India.
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: Of course, the KPMG Digital Bosses point was, if we've
• 25:30
  Speaker 4: got robots doing jobs, we don't have to import immigrants,
• 25:33
  Speaker 4: and then demand for housing becomes less and housing thus
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: becomes more affordable. That is a major problem in our country.
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: South Australian Council has a solution to the housing crisis.
• 25:45
  Speaker 4: They're going to hike rates on privately owned vacant lots
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: of land in a bid to force land owners to
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: either develop homes on those lots or give them off
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: to others who will.
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: Vacant lots already.
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: Attract a rate of twenty percent higher than develop lots
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: of land. This is in the council area of Onka
• 26:07
  Speaker 4: Peringa in Adelaide. Say it with confidence, one of their
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: council has said, and I quote, this just doesn't bring
• 26:15
  Speaker 4: on more homes in the market. It activates neighborhoods, stimulates
• 26:18
  Speaker 4: construction and ultimately contributes to the local economy and activity.
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: This is about a bit of fairness.
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: It's about asking whether those who are sitting on undeveloped
• 26:25
  Speaker 4: land are contributing equally to the infrastructure and services to
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: benefit the land. I get the point. But in terms
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: of fairness, is it really fair that the council hike
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: up your rates to achieve their goals. If it's your
• 26:39
  Speaker 4: vacant block of land and you want to let it
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: sit vacant, will you own it? So what's fair is
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: whatever you decide as for the council pulling levers, and
• 26:49
  Speaker 4: they argue the only lever they have is rates to
• 26:52
  Speaker 4: achieve the outcomes they are after, rather than to serve
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: rate payers. I'm not so sure that's a good thing,
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: and maybe councils should get their own houses in order
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: before they start asking everybody else to sacrifice. Councils continually
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: run up deficits while they have sister city agreements.
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: They fly all over the world.
• 27:08
  Speaker 4: They give money to stupid social causes that have nothing
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: to do with benefiting rate payers. I get that this
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: might help produce some more homes, but I just think
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: it's bad policy when you're violating people's property ownership rights.
• 27:22
  Speaker 8: Yeah, property rights have just gone out the window. I mean,
• 27:25
  Speaker 8: they're in a bad state in this country if you
• 27:27
  Speaker 8: ask me to begin with. But no matter how high
• 27:30
  Speaker 8: you hike the rates, dear counsel, it's still going to
• 27:34
  Speaker 8: be a hell of a lot cheaper than developing the land.
• 27:36
  Speaker 8: Do you have any idea how much that costs. Why
• 27:40
  Speaker 8: don't you just to start demanding what nature of development
• 27:43
  Speaker 8: you want to see on the land. At this point, Oh,
• 27:45
  Speaker 8: we want more houses, you have to build housing. What
• 27:48
  Speaker 8: if they want to build something else. The owners should
• 27:52
  Speaker 8: get to say what and when they do with their
• 27:55
  Speaker 8: own land and making it less affordable.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: For it to sit.
• 27:58
  Speaker 8: There is just shameless revenue raising if you ask me. Sure,
• 28:02
  Speaker 8: they're creating an incentive for the land to.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Be developed, but is it right. No, I really don't
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: think it is.
• 28:09
  Speaker 9: Councilors tell people what they can do in their land
• 28:11
  Speaker 9: all the time. They zone lands for different purposes.
• 28:14
  Speaker 8: In the zoning is a different issue. The former counselor,
• 28:17
  Speaker 8: I can tell you that.
• 28:19
  Speaker 9: Say, but you're saying, I own this bit of land,
• 28:22
  Speaker 9: I should be able to build a house here if
• 28:24
  Speaker 9: I want to say, well, no, you can't because you're
• 28:26
  Speaker 9: in an industrial zone. So but if I bought a
• 28:28
  Speaker 9: bit of land, or this is my bit of plan,
• 28:30
  Speaker 9: I want to build a ten story house, well no
• 28:32
  Speaker 9: you can't. They change the rules on me to achieve
• 28:35
  Speaker 9: outcomes that they want.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: The story.
• 28:37
  Speaker 8: This isn't a matter of them refusing a development application
• 28:40
  Speaker 8: because they don't like the manner of the development. This
• 28:43
  Speaker 8: is a case of there's a vacant block of land,
• 28:45
  Speaker 8: the owner's not doing anything with it.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: We don't like that. We're going to try and force
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: you to do.
• 28:49
  Speaker 9: It's called use or use it or lose it provisions,
• 28:52
  Speaker 9: and that they exist already in Australia. Everywhere there's there's
• 28:56
  Speaker 9: laws that. In fact, in the last last year's budget
• 29:00
  Speaker 9: there were a whole bunch of extra but the penalties
• 29:03
  Speaker 9: were already there, but they were double, they increased many
• 29:07
  Speaker 9: many fold. I can't remember exactly off the top of
• 29:08
  Speaker 9: my head of people I think was especially foreign owners
• 29:12
  Speaker 9: who had property in Australia, who had a house in
• 29:15
  Speaker 9: Australia they bought as an investment property, say, and they were
• 29:18
  Speaker 9: just waiting for it to you know, a crew in
• 29:19
  Speaker 9: value and to appreciate and then they'd sell it for
• 29:21
  Speaker 9: a proper but it just sits empty. They would have
• 29:25
  Speaker 9: to pay tens of thousands of dollars. I think we
• 29:27
  Speaker 9: ended up being over one hundred thousand dollars or something,
• 29:29
  Speaker 9: something so punitive that it basically meant you have to
• 29:31
  Speaker 9: rent it out. And that was one of the measures
• 29:33
  Speaker 9: for helping to ease the housing crisis. Now I have
• 29:36
  Speaker 9: no problem with that whatsoever, So don't I don't see why.
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: I have no problem with that either. But that's because
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: it's owned by Australia.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: I own my house and it is very very full.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Any vacant locks.
• 29:47
  Speaker 9: I don't have any vacant punished for owning No, I
• 29:51
  Speaker 9: have none whatsoever, and I'm more than happy, more than
• 29:54
  Speaker 9: happy to keep it that way. I think we should
• 29:56
  Speaker 9: be using every single bit of land that we have
• 29:58
  Speaker 9: and in feeling it as much as we have to
• 30:00
  Speaker 9: make sure that people are using it as not just
• 30:02
  Speaker 9: being sat there left vacant so that the owner can
• 30:05
  Speaker 9: then sell it.
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: For your mind, you have any vacant bedrooms in your home.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: I don't. Actually they are also all full.
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: It's just a matter of degrees as to how far
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: you go once you violate the principle of this is
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: my property. I can do what I want on my property.
• 30:19
  Speaker 9: I think that at the point, I think they've already
• 30:23
  Speaker 9: been suggestions and again whether or not people should you know,
• 30:26
  Speaker 9: there should be an extra penalty pay if you have
• 30:28
  Speaker 9: an investment property that's just sitting empty. I don't know
• 30:31
  Speaker 9: if they yet apply to Australian owners, but certainly certainly
• 30:35
  Speaker 9: to foreign owners they do so surely they have property
• 30:38
  Speaker 9: rights too, or do they not?
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: I believe they should.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: I think it's different with.
• 30:44
  Speaker 9: Foreign I believe if you owned a bit of land
• 30:48
  Speaker 9: in say Bali, A lot of Australians have a lot
• 30:50
  Speaker 9: of a ballet, which is actually impossible because the Indonesians.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: Just make it such a basket case.
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: Land in China this is no problem.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: But I think either you know you have rights or
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: you don't. I think you use it or lose it.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: Can I get in there or.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: Agree to disagree? Well?
• 31:04
  Speaker 8: Former UK Prime Minister Tony Blair has come out swinging
• 31:07
  Speaker 8: against net zero policies.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: Today.
• 31:11
  Speaker 8: I quote votes feel like they're being asked to make
• 31:14
  Speaker 8: financial sacrifices and changes in lifestyle when they know the
• 31:18
  Speaker 8: impact on global emissions is minimal.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: Preach brother.
• 31:23
  Speaker 8: He says any strategy based on either phasing out fossil
• 31:27
  Speaker 8: fuels in the short term or limiting consumption is a strategy.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Doomed to fail.
• 31:33
  Speaker 8: Now he's not actually calling for labor to halt its
• 31:37
  Speaker 8: push to decarbonize the UK economy. He's simply saying, you
• 31:41
  Speaker 8: guys need to rethink the way you're going about this,
• 31:44
  Speaker 8: because it is not working except for impoverishing the everyday
• 31:49
  Speaker 8: person who's just trying to heat their homes in the UK,
• 31:53
  Speaker 8: where it's possible to freeze to death and have some
• 31:57
  Speaker 8: quality of life over there, if you're running a small business,
• 32:00
  Speaker 8: if you've got a factory, et cetera, and so on.
• 32:03
  Speaker 8: Energy prices over there are also extortionate for the same
• 32:07
  Speaker 8: reason that they are here. Good on him for saying something,
• 32:11
  Speaker 8: but good grief, he's taken.
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: A while, he's slow, but he gets there in the end.
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: I was going to start, I can't believe I'm agreeing
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: with Tony Blair, but then I realized, no, no, he's
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: agreeing with the rest of us, because most of us
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: have thought this for a long long time. He's actually
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: recommending some interesting things. He's recommending that money be spent
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: not on trying to achieve net zero, but rather on
• 32:32
  Speaker 4: climate adaptation.
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: It's not a bad idea.
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: He's also recommending get this investment in small scale nuclear reactors.
• 32:39
  Speaker 4: Remember this is a labor Prime Minister sounds for me,
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: and he said, and here's an idea. What if we
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: got India and China to reduce their emissions, we start
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: destroying our own economies.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: So much to take that guy, Prime Minister.
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: The other was he said, you know, the benefits of
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: net zero are continually exaggerated, and the debate is said,
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: is riven with irrationality.
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: Not that we've seen any of that in Australia.
• 33:08
  Speaker 14: No, mate, you can shut your mouth.
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: You can shut you American people your social paths like you.
• 33:21
  Speaker 14: Death, disease, displacement, starvation, people dying of first arable farming
• 33:29
  Speaker 14: lands turning into desert, and most likely billions of people dead.
• 33:35
  Speaker 4: I can't imagine why support for action on climate change
• 33:39
  Speaker 4: is dwindling. Tony Blair said that the public are starting
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: to lose their support for this stuff. I'm not sure
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: that politicians ever had the public support for this stuff.
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: But good that Tony Blair has finally woken up and
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: is now saying what most of us have been saying
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: for a long long time.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: Joe, Yeah, I don't.
• 33:56
  Speaker 9: Well, it's one of those things that there is public
• 33:58
  Speaker 9: support for it, but that's port very very quickly declines
• 34:02
  Speaker 9: as soon as there's a cost attached to it. So
• 34:04
  Speaker 9: people say, yes, we should do more on climate change,
• 34:05
  Speaker 9: yes we sud this is this, but as soon as
• 34:07
  Speaker 9: they have to pay more, so as there's a risk
• 34:10
  Speaker 9: of them losing their job, soon as any of these
• 34:13
  Speaker 9: things come into play, suddenly it becomes a second edition.
• 34:16
  Speaker 9: And we've seen, you know, just in this election with
• 34:19
  Speaker 9: cost of living, Suddenly all these things that people thought
• 34:22
  Speaker 9: were important, everything from climate change to transgender issues, to
• 34:26
  Speaker 9: welcomes to country, they've all taken a back seat. And
• 34:30
  Speaker 9: these are things that people thought really really important, you know,
• 34:32
  Speaker 9: before the cost of living crisis hit. They all take
• 34:34
  Speaker 9: a back seat as soon as there's anything economic about
• 34:39
  Speaker 9: the challenges people are facing.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: So that's what happened. So Tony Blair is absolutely right.
• 34:43
  Speaker 9: Yes we have to address climate change, but you can't
• 34:45
  Speaker 9: do it in a way that just says, sorry, you
• 34:47
  Speaker 9: pour luddite, knuckle dragon, coal miner. You have to sacrifice
• 34:50
  Speaker 9: your job and your livelihood so that you know the
• 34:53
  Speaker 9: rest of us. Can you sip our arm and lattes
• 34:57
  Speaker 9: in peace and not have to worry about the planet
• 35:00
  Speaker 9: we go to a break?
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: Could the Labor Party be any more contemptuous of voters?
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: Senator Penny Wong said today that the Indigenous Voice to Parliament,
• 35:08
  Speaker 4: you know, the one that sixty percent of us voted
• 35:10
  Speaker 4: no to just a couple of years ago. She said,
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: it is an inevitability. Doesn't matter that we've already voted no.
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: She's sure there'll be a second vote, and if necessary,
• 35:20
  Speaker 4: a third and a fourth vote until voters finally get
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: it right.
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: Here's what she said.
• 35:26
  Speaker 5: He thought it was the right thing to do, and
• 35:28
  Speaker 5: you know a lot of the First Nations leaders wanted
• 35:33
  Speaker 5: the opportunity. So look, I think we'll look back on
• 35:37
  Speaker 5: it in ten years time and it'll be like marriage equality.
• 35:40
  Speaker 5: It'll become something to be like. People go, do we
• 35:43
  Speaker 5: have an argument about that?
• 35:45
  Speaker 4: She's so confident a voice to Parliament will be legislated
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: one day, we'll look back and say, I can't believe
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: we even had a disagreement about that. Now, listen to
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: the Prime Minister tell you that you didn't hear what
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: you just heard?
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: Is Pennywong right? Is the voice sort of inevitable?
• 36:01
  Speaker 10: Well she didn't say that at all, So you just
• 36:06
  Speaker 10: played it people will I think I think it was
• 36:11
  Speaker 10: a very modest proposal, but it didn't receive the support
• 36:16
  Speaker 10: of the Australian people. And that is what Penny Wong
• 36:21
  Speaker 10: is saying.
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: Can you believe this guy?
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: You just heard what Penny Wong said? They played it
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: on the radio and then he says, no, no, you
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: didn't hear.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: What you just heard.
• 36:29
  Speaker 9: Well, it's a very very foolish thing for Penny Wong
• 36:33
  Speaker 9: to have said, I forget.
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: What Penny Wong said.
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: What about Anthony Albineazy there just totally gaslighting everybody.
• 36:37
  Speaker 9: Well, he is desperately trying to make the point that
• 36:40
  Speaker 9: the voice, as Tony Abbott says.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: Trying to make the point.
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: But what about what he said about Wong said.
• 36:44
  Speaker 9: Well, she didn't openly say explicitly we will legislate the voice.
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: And you know this is like a tactical obfustigation that
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: you We're going to go to a break.
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: When we come back, we'll look at what's making news tomorrow,
• 36:57
  Speaker 4: including the last Redbridge pole showing surging ahead just days
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: before the federal election.
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: That's coming up in just a moment.
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: Well, we're talking just before we went to the break
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: about Penny Wong bringing up the voice again and suggesting
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: it could be tried again. That's the front page of
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: Tomorrow's Daily Telegraph.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, it certainly is.
• 37:21
  Speaker 9: And also I have to say the subject of a
• 37:23
  Speaker 9: something call I wrote about just saying how incredibly smug
• 37:26
  Speaker 9: and stupid these comments were, So I'm not defending them.
• 37:28
  Speaker 9: But yes, Wong digs up Labour's voice nightmare, throwing campaign
• 37:31
  Speaker 9: into chaos. Penny drops get it is the headline. Anthony
• 37:35
  Speaker 9: Albaneze's path through election victory has been thrown into chaos
• 37:39
  Speaker 9: by his Foreign Minister Penny Wong after she implied the
• 37:42
  Speaker 9: dump Indigenous Voice to Parliament would in the future.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: Be considered an inevitability.
• 37:47
  Speaker 9: Coalition Indigenous Affairs spokes women just senter Namdjibba Price said
• 37:52
  Speaker 9: Labor simply won't take no for an answer on the
• 37:55
  Speaker 9: voice proposal. So yeah, very very damaging, sloppy, messy, careless
• 38:01
  Speaker 9: comments from Penny Wong. But I can certainly say I
• 38:04
  Speaker 9: can guarantee you there is no plan whatsoever. Everyone in
• 38:07
  Speaker 9: the government is absolutely scared of any sort of rerun
• 38:11
  Speaker 9: of the Voice. They don't want to touch any of
• 38:12
  Speaker 9: that stuff with a barge pole, and that's why they're
• 38:14
  Speaker 9: not touching anything like treaty or any of that stuff.
• 38:17
  Speaker 4: And itone, except for Penny Wong, her comparison between the
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: same sex marriage plebacite and the voice referendum is so
• 38:25
  Speaker 4: misplaced for a number of reasons. But I'll give you
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: just one when she says, you know, one day the
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: voice will be regarded as what was that about?
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: As same sex marriage.
• 38:35
  Speaker 4: The only reason same sex marriage is now regarded as Okay,
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: we've got it is because those who voted no to
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: it at the plebacite said, well, you know what, the
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: majority of Australian said yes, so we won't continually oppose
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: it and continue. I mean it's it, unlike those who
• 38:50
  Speaker 4: lost the Voice referendum who continually bring it back up
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: and argue that well, Australian's got it wrong. They didn't
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: understand they were tricked and insists that will repeat the
• 38:59
  Speaker 4: referendum until we get it right.
• 39:00
  Speaker 9: Well, there's actually irony upon irony because obviously referring to
• 39:03
  Speaker 9: it'll be about marriage equalities, So what was.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: All the fuss about.
• 39:05
  Speaker 9: She's obviously not referred to the fact that marriage equality failed.
• 39:08
  Speaker 9: She's referred to the fact that it got up. So
• 39:10
  Speaker 9: clearly she's answering on the assumption that something like the
• 39:13
  Speaker 9: Voice or whatever gets up.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: But the biggest irony, of.
• 39:16
  Speaker 9: Course, is that the rud Gillard government refused to do
• 39:21
  Speaker 9: anything on marriage equality and Penny Wong, and I don't
• 39:24
  Speaker 9: blame her at all for she was just towing the
• 39:25
  Speaker 9: party line very nobly and it was obviously through gritted teeth.
• 39:29
  Speaker 9: But Penny Wong would not come out against the government
• 39:32
  Speaker 9: and held the party line.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: And it was the Liberal Party that actually put it
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: to a vote.
• 39:40
  Speaker 9: And I believe that people who actually said, you know,
• 39:43
  Speaker 9: instead of having a referendum, we could have a postal
• 39:46
  Speaker 9: pleba site and that might just be a way to
• 39:49
  Speaker 9: solve the issue the postal survey. And I believe it
• 39:51
  Speaker 9: was Tony Abbott and one Peter Dutton who actually put
• 39:55
  Speaker 9: forward this is a way to sort of break the
• 39:57
  Speaker 9: impass and get marriage equality up. So Peter Dutton, freedom
• 40:02
  Speaker 9: fighter for Australia's Lgbtaiqi plus.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: Community, speaking to put that out in a business card
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: to the front.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Page of the Courier Mail.
• 40:11
  Speaker 8: Global Uncertainty Strikes reads the splash Dutton slumps on poll eve.
• 40:17
  Speaker 8: Global uncertainty caused by the actions of US President Donald
• 40:21
  Speaker 8: Trump appears set to deny the Coalition to hear of
• 40:25
  Speaker 8: any chance of returning to government. According to new polling,
• 40:29
  Speaker 8: the red Bridge Accent polling reveals Labor has pulled clearly
• 40:33
  Speaker 8: ahead with fifty three forty seven support. It also finds
• 40:38
  Speaker 8: global uncertainty is the biggest driver for people deciding.
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: How to vote.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: Almost half of those polls.
• 40:44
  Speaker 8: Said it would be among the top reasons for them
• 40:47
  Speaker 8: in deciding who to oppose at the ballot box on Saturday.
• 40:52
  Speaker 8: I do find it so curious that so much media
• 40:57
  Speaker 8: that I've read throughout this campaign keeps making it out
• 41:01
  Speaker 8: like it's a legitimate race. I've sort of the very
• 41:04
  Speaker 8: beginning of this campaign that I didn't think the Liberals
• 41:07
  Speaker 8: had a chance for the simple reason of electoral map.
• 41:11
  Speaker 8: It would take an act of God to flip twenty
• 41:14
  Speaker 8: three seats. For me, it's always been that simple. I
• 41:18
  Speaker 8: will not be surprised when Labor inevitably wins on Saturday.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: So this poll to me, is not shocking in the least.
• 41:25
  Speaker 9: Well, the Libs were very competitive, or much more competitive,
• 41:29
  Speaker 9: but the truth is they've just pissed away their lead.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: Indeed, so very this is a national pole.
• 41:34
  Speaker 9: We've also got Redbridge doing a massive tracking pole in
• 41:39
  Speaker 9: the twenty marginal seats. And again the Libs were ahead,
• 41:43
  Speaker 9: you know, fifty two forty eight in February when the
• 41:45
  Speaker 9: campaign began in earnest and ever since that rate cut,
• 41:48
  Speaker 9: Labor came out of the blocks strongly. The Libs have
• 41:51
  Speaker 9: been paying catch up. Ever since there's been slopping this
• 41:53
  Speaker 9: over policy. Trump has really, really hurt them and another thing,
• 41:57
  Speaker 9: and sadly they seem to keep making the same mistakes.
• 42:00
  Speaker 9: Another thing. There's a breakdown of all the number one
• 42:03
  Speaker 9: issue or the number one issues, all the issues that
• 42:05
  Speaker 9: are driving driving voter anxiety, what they fear, the policies
• 42:11
  Speaker 9: that are making them vote for the coming day, every
• 42:14
  Speaker 9: single one of them, every single one. All cost of living,
• 42:17
  Speaker 9: all cost of living, This cultural war stuff means absolutely nothing.
• 42:20
  Speaker 9: And yet Peter Dutton has spent the last week of
• 42:22
  Speaker 9: the campaign and talking about welcome to a lot of.
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: The things that are driving the vote, according to this
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: article in the Career Mail, and the polling are just rubbish.
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: I mean the number one issue for people voting labor
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: is the promise of free GP visits, which doctors have
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: come out and said if Anthony Albanez he thinks everyone's
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: going to start bolt billing, I mean he's living in fantasy.
• 42:41
  Speaker 4: The second most popular thing was the promise to end
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: supermarket price gouging. There's been a dozen or more reports
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: saying price gouging is if it is happening, it's a
• 42:51
  Speaker 4: minor thing.
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: It's not a major thing.
• 42:53
  Speaker 4: And the thing that was driving the vote away from
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: Peter Dutton, aside from a fear that he was a
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: minnie Donald Trump. Was the cost of new clear which
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: Labour keeps saying will be what six hundred billion dollars,
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: which has been two used as a lie. So that's
• 43:08
  Speaker 4: what's driving.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Because there's two sets of figures.
• 43:11
  Speaker 4: Always speaking of figures, let's go to the front page
• 43:13
  Speaker 4: of the Canberra Times. A bid to cut forty billion
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: dollars from debt is the headline. But here's the interesting part.
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: The coalition will publish its costings two days out from
• 43:24
  Speaker 4: the election, with the figures expected to show it will
• 43:26
  Speaker 4: shave off forty billion dollars of total.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: Two days too soon, I'll ask me Jane.
• 43:30
  Speaker 5: Now.
• 43:31
  Speaker 4: Jane Hume was on Sky News earlier tonight and she
• 43:35
  Speaker 4: was saying the coalition's costings would be released imminently. She
• 43:38
  Speaker 4: promised it would not be Friday afternoon, so she was
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: on with Laura Jay's this morning actually and pretty much
• 43:44
  Speaker 4: said it will be tomorrow, Thursday, just two days out
• 43:47
  Speaker 4: from the election. I guess it's it's very smart politicking, Liz, No,
• 43:52
  Speaker 4: it's not.
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: You don't have time to sell anything in two days.
• 43:57
  Speaker 8: The average punter who's just working their nine to five
• 44:01
  Speaker 8: and trying to get through their lives with some semblance
• 44:04
  Speaker 8: of peace. Won't be remotely aware of your plan to
• 44:09
  Speaker 8: cut forty billion. They simply will not know when they
• 44:13
  Speaker 8: go to vote. Millions have already voted, by the way,
• 44:17
  Speaker 8: we've set new.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: Records in pre polling. I do not understand why any
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: parties wait.
• 44:23
  Speaker 8: This long to unveil something, this big, something this great, forty.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: Billion off the debt.
• 44:30
  Speaker 8: Yeah, take my vote please, Except people don't know.
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: And what are you going to do in the next
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: two days to make.
• 44:38
  Speaker 8: Them all abundantly aware of your amazing plan that you
• 44:42
  Speaker 8: revealed forty eight hours prior.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? I give up?
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: Are they just limiting opportunity for I give up? I'm done.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: You always release your costings at the last possible minute.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: This is ridiculous. No one will be aware.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: This is their own tactical obfuscation. It's not about that.
• 45:03
  Speaker 9: All the policies are out there. All the good stuff
• 45:05
  Speaker 9: that they're doing is out there. They've told everyone about that,
• 45:08
  Speaker 9: they'd get that out.
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: How they're going to pay for it?
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: They're going to pay for it.
• 45:12
  Speaker 9: Obviously, the million dollar question they' say, oh, we're going
• 45:14
  Speaker 9: to do it by getting forty billion dollars from debt,
• 45:17
  Speaker 9: just like that, and of course labor and everyone else
• 45:20
  Speaker 9: is going to be all over that like a cheap suit.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: No what, it's time to fact check it in forty
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: eight hours.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: That's the whole point.
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: Yes, that's right, it's really quick, Joe. Before we go
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: to a break, Yeah, advertise a little one that I love.
• 45:34
  Speaker 9: The Green's labor boost has Donet on edge in blue
• 45:37
  Speaker 9: ribbon seat Liberals. Stertled there is growing concern within Liberal
• 45:41
  Speaker 9: Party that Green's preferences could hand Labor victory in Stert
• 45:44
  Speaker 9: with PM Anthony Albernezi, Opposition leader Peter dunn't dashing to
• 45:47
  Speaker 9: Adelaide campaign today to campaign there, So Stert and Booth
• 45:51
  Speaker 9: via the two swing steats suit two marginal seats in Adelaide,
• 45:55
  Speaker 9: I say swing steats Labor has never actually won stirt.
• 45:58
  Speaker 9: They've been trying for decades, they've never actually done it.
• 46:00
  Speaker 9: But it sits on zero point five of a percent party,
• 46:04
  Speaker 9: so it's very low hanging through.
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: All right, we're going to go to a break.
• 46:08
  Speaker 4: We'll continue with our political discussions. Because Anthony Albanesi has
• 46:11
  Speaker 4: been endorsed by someone he'd rather didn't vote for him
• 46:15
  Speaker 4: at all.
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: Will explain what happened in just a moment.
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: Well, you think, if you're running for public office, you
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: want as many endorsements as you can get, But Liz,
• 46:25
  Speaker 4: it turns out there's at least one endorsement. Anthony Albanesi
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: would prefer not.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: To have no.
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: Indeed.
• 46:30
  Speaker 8: American Joe Exotic, who is the star of Tiger King.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: You may have seen it on Netflix. He's currently a prison.
• 46:38
  Speaker 8: Inmate serving twenty two years for a raft of felonies.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: He's taken to his social media to say keep Australia
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: safe and awesome. All my friends in Australia vote.
• 46:50
  Speaker 8: For Anthony Albanesi Well today with a photoshopped image by
• 46:55
  Speaker 8: the way, that isn't actually them together rubbing shoulders. Well today,
• 46:59
  Speaker 8: Anthony Albanize, he was asked did he pay for this
• 47:03
  Speaker 8: star spangled endorsement?
• 47:06
  Speaker 7: Joe Exotic from the hit series Tiger King is on
• 47:11
  Speaker 7: a more serious note is he's serving a prison sentence
• 47:15
  Speaker 7: for a murder and has been convicted of animal abuse.
• 47:19
  Speaker 7: He's also just endorsed you on Instagram. How do you
• 47:23
  Speaker 7: feel about that? Have you ever met him? And has
• 47:27
  Speaker 7: anyone in labor paid for his endorsement.
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: Goodnessationm Levity.
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: I have a very passionate support for one particular animal, Tito,
• 47:41
  Speaker 4: and I'm looking forward to voting with her on Saturday.
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: All good laugh from Anthony Albanezy there. I think Toto
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: is his dog.
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: Tto is his dog, and I just.
• 47:53
  Speaker 9: You know what, I just we should stop talking about
• 47:55
  Speaker 9: the dog. But I love he loves he really. I
• 47:58
  Speaker 9: can tell you that is not an act. He really,
• 48:00
  Speaker 9: he really really loves that dog, and that's very sweet.
• 48:03
  Speaker 4: The Prime Minister went on to say in his answer
• 48:05
  Speaker 4: to that question, which quite amused me.
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: He said, I think the.
• 48:08
  Speaker 4: Point of that question was to ask the question rather
• 48:11
  Speaker 4: than to get an answer. And I remember watching that
• 48:14
  Speaker 4: Press Club interview this afternoon thinking, oh, the state of journalism, Like,
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: what a stupid question. But of course I think the
• 48:20
  Speaker 4: reporter got exactly what she wanted. It's been all over
• 48:23
  Speaker 4: the papers today and here we are talking about it.
• 48:25
  Speaker 4: I think it's what they call clickbait.
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: Yes it is.
• 48:27
  Speaker 9: But I'm going to have to fact check the reporter
• 48:29
  Speaker 9: because she said that Joe was serving a prison sentence
• 48:33
  Speaker 9: for murder. In fact, it was just attempted murder. There
• 48:37
  Speaker 9: were two counts of it was convicted. Joe Exotic was convicted.
• 48:41
  Speaker 9: This is Wikipedia, so I must be right. Was convicted
• 48:44
  Speaker 9: and sends to twenty two years of in prison on
• 48:46
  Speaker 9: seventeen federal charges of animal abuse and two counts of
• 48:50
  Speaker 9: attempted murder for hire for the plot to kill Carl Baskin.
• 48:54
  Speaker 9: They put the animal cruelty charges ahead of the attempted
• 48:58
  Speaker 9: murder charges.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: How would you feel if you're cald Baskin.
• 49:01
  Speaker 4: Well, Joe Exotic will not be voting on Saturday, so
• 49:04
  Speaker 4: we don't ever worry about him.
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: That's all from us stick Around. Coming up in just
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: a moment is the Reader Penney Show.
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: Good Night,