Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #1250 - Does Parenting Have a PR Problem? (R)

Transcript

#1250 - Does Parenting Have a PR Problem? (R) · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:05
Speaker 1: One of my favorite things about the Happy Families podcast
0:08
Speaker 1: is talking to awesome people. One of my favorite people
0:11
Speaker 1: in media today is somebody called Angela Mollard. If you
0:14
Speaker 1: read any kind of media online or even even the
0:17
Speaker 1: old fashioned way with paper in your hand, you will
0:21
Speaker 1: have come across Angela Mollard's writing. Angela is an experienced
0:25
Speaker 1: columnist skilled in journalism, radio, television, magazines and newspapers. And
0:30
Speaker 1: I think we've been on TV together before it Yeah, you.
0:34
Speaker 2: Be on Channel nine together on Today not Today Today Extra.
0:39
Speaker 2: We used to do and we used to thrash things
0:40
Speaker 2: out and it was lovely. You were the highlight of
0:43
Speaker 2: my week.
0:43
Speaker 1: Sometimes always fun, not just contributing to TV and writing
0:47
Speaker 1: weekly for the News Court papers on a range of topics,
0:49
Speaker 1: one of which is parenting. You shut up recently in
0:52
Speaker 1: do you say Maurrie Claire or Marie Clair? I've never known.
0:55
Speaker 2: Murray Claire was? Which one did you see there? And
0:58
Speaker 2: why were you buying murraycare Justine?
1:00
Speaker 1: None of what I was. I was just gurgling around
1:02
Speaker 1: and seeing what else you've been up to. I can't
1:04
Speaker 1: even remember what the article was, but I do know
1:05
Speaker 1: that I really enjoyed it because I.
1:09
Speaker 2: I did the three of the Matilda's before they went Overseas,
1:13
Speaker 2: and I did Elizabeth Deickie from The Crown, and I've
1:16
Speaker 2: done Terresa Palmer and Shaketti. I love working for Murray
1:19
Speaker 2: Clair Arrgeous Maazing.
1:20
Speaker 1: I don't think it was any of those, but whatever
1:22
Speaker 1: it was, it just drew me in. It drew me in,
1:25
Speaker 1: and I thought, this is why I love Angela Mollart.
1:27
Speaker 1: I need it on the podcast because of a recent
1:29
Speaker 1: article that you wrote for the News Court Papers, which
1:32
Speaker 1: is that parenting needs a PR job. We've got a
1:37
Speaker 1: PR problem when it comes to parenting, and your argument
1:40
Speaker 1: basically is that I don't know people who are sort
1:42
Speaker 1: of in their twenties and thirties are looking at parenting
1:44
Speaker 1: and saying it's kind of hard. It correlates with some
1:49
Speaker 1: research out of Europe I came across and studied from
1:51
Speaker 1: Germany that indicated that most German couples are opting for
1:54
Speaker 1: zero or one children because once you get past one,
1:57
Speaker 1: well it's harder again. And so there's just a there's
2:01
Speaker 1: a lack of desirability on our younger generation around parenting.
2:05
Speaker 1: Once upon a time, having kids was just what you did.
2:08
Speaker 1: You had to consciously opt out of parenting a generation
2:12
Speaker 1: or two ago, whereas now young people seem to be
2:16
Speaker 1: consciously determining whether or not they will opt in because
2:20
Speaker 1: they're worried about careers and houses and deposits and dollars
2:22
Speaker 1: and accomplishment and figuring out who they are, just identity stuff.
2:26
Speaker 1: I loved your article. Where did it come from? What
2:29
Speaker 1: was the idea behind it?
2:32
Speaker 2: Look, all most of my articles come from just listening
2:34
Speaker 2: to hearing people having conversations and have friendships with people
2:37
Speaker 2: in their late twenties and thirties, and some you know,
2:40
Speaker 2: through relatives and things. I can hear this conversation and
2:42
Speaker 2: I was actually speaking to someone, a couple who were
2:45
Speaker 2: getting married about a week before I wrote this piece,
2:47
Speaker 2: and it was just like, gosh, all my friends they've
2:50
Speaker 2: had started having babies there, and these two were thirty two,
2:53
Speaker 2: and they said, you know, none of them make it
2:54
Speaker 2: look or sound any fun. They're always talking about how
2:58
Speaker 2: tiring it is, you know, always exhausted. You know. Somebody
3:02
Speaker 2: even gone so far as to say, you know, you
3:05
Speaker 2: should think seriously about doing this. It really changes your life.
3:07
Speaker 2: And it really made me think about it. I think
3:10
Speaker 2: since the turn of the century and the sort of
3:14
Speaker 2: since we started having mummy bloggers, I think the whole
3:16
Speaker 2: notion of talking about parenting has largely been and you know,
3:20
Speaker 2: it's great just talk about the vulnerabilities and to be
3:22
Speaker 2: open about it rather than simply just brushing it under
3:25
Speaker 2: the carpet. But I do think that we've spoken so
3:27
Speaker 2: much about how bad it is that we've forgotten to
3:30
Speaker 2: talk about the joy of it.
3:31
Speaker 1: Even as you're saying that, I'm thinking about mummy bloggers
3:34
Speaker 1: and Insta mums and the TikTok parenting. I mean, it's
3:37
Speaker 1: just it's almost rabid in some sections, and there's a
3:42
Speaker 1: whole lot of people who are not experts who are
3:44
Speaker 1: masquerading as experts and telling parents how to do it,
3:47
Speaker 1: and for the most part, they make parenting look hard.
3:50
Speaker 1: Like when you go away and try to be a
3:52
Speaker 1: quote unquote gentle parent, it never quite works out the
3:55
Speaker 1: way that it looks on social media. It looks really hard.
3:58
Speaker 1: Question for you, did your parents complain about how hard
4:01
Speaker 1: it was to be a parent like modern parents do?
4:06
Speaker 2: Fantastic question, justin not at all. Never have, even now
4:10
Speaker 2: my parents that they enveloped their grandchildren, they have them
4:14
Speaker 2: living with them for periods of time. I've currently my
4:16
Speaker 2: grandparents have one of their grandchildren from Japan living with
4:19
Speaker 2: them for this year. They've had others living with them.
4:21
Speaker 2: They have always embraced it and believed it just a
4:24
Speaker 2: normal part of life that doesn't actually require as much
4:27
Speaker 2: commentary as we currently give it. They always made growing up.
4:32
Speaker 2: My mum always made me feel that I was myself
4:34
Speaker 2: and my brothers were number one. Her life revolved she
4:37
Speaker 2: was a teacher and a special needs teacher, so she
4:39
Speaker 2: had a big job. She still sees kids along the way.
4:42
Speaker 2: And I always felt like I was just the center
4:46
Speaker 2: of her universe. And I interviewed her recently because she's
4:49
Speaker 2: turning eighty, and I thought, and you know, even listening
4:52
Speaker 2: to her, because I wanted to interview her just in
4:55
Speaker 2: case was she ever to get to dementia or anything
4:57
Speaker 2: like that. That I have a record of some parts
4:58
Speaker 2: of her life, and what san through was just how
5:01
Speaker 2: much she enjoyed it. She just enjoyed raising three kids.
5:04
Speaker 2: But she did make the point there wasn't the expectation
5:08
Speaker 2: for the children to perform, for the children to get
5:11
Speaker 2: to this birthday party, for kids to look a certain
5:15
Speaker 2: way on social media or to perform at school. We
5:18
Speaker 2: just bumbled along and you know, I just went to
5:21
Speaker 2: the local co ed secondary school, I felt and she
5:24
Speaker 2: talked a little bit about where hunger came from kids
5:27
Speaker 2: themselves rather than from expectations put on them from parents,
5:31
Speaker 2: And I think that made it easier for parents and
5:33
Speaker 2: easier for children.
5:35
Speaker 1: Angela, this idea of your mum being fulfilled by the
5:40
Speaker 1: role of mother, do you think that that fulfillment is
5:44
Speaker 1: still evident in twenty twenty four. Do you think that
5:47
Speaker 1: parents are looking at the role of parenting and saying, yes,
5:51
Speaker 1: this is number one, what I'll be doing. I don't
5:53
Speaker 1: have to opt in around, It's just what I do.
5:55
Speaker 1: And number two, I expected to be fulfilling. And could
5:59
Speaker 1: that be part of the proper as well? For all
6:00
Speaker 1: of those times, Let's face a lot of the time
6:02
Speaker 1: parenting is not fulfilling. It is actually it's a bit
6:04
Speaker 1: of a grind's what Tody, I'd be boring.
6:07
Speaker 2: It can be grindy. We can. I think we measure
6:11
Speaker 2: it more than we ever used to. We focus on
6:14
Speaker 2: outcomes more than just letting it flow. But to answer
6:18
Speaker 2: your question about do you think it can be fulfilling.
6:21
Speaker 2: The reason. One of the reasons I wat this piece
6:23
Speaker 2: is that I woke up one morning from a text
6:25
Speaker 2: from my daughter, who is twenty. She was upstairs. A
6:28
Speaker 2: possum had got into her room at night, and she'd
6:30
Speaker 2: sent me a message overnight saying, Mum, there's a possum
6:33
Speaker 2: in my room. I didn't want to wake you up,
6:36
Speaker 2: but I think it might be a two man job
6:37
Speaker 2: to get rid of it. And I lay there in
6:39
Speaker 2: bed before I jumped up and went to deal with
6:42
Speaker 2: the possum. I lay there and thought, this little girl
6:45
Speaker 2: used to come into my bedroom every night for a year.
6:48
Speaker 2: It used to do my head, and it used to
6:50
Speaker 2: be I was so tired. And then one day she
6:52
Speaker 2: just stopped. And I realized that everything in parenting just passes,
6:57
Speaker 2: and if you just go okay, this is just happening now.
7:00
Speaker 2: And now I have this twenty year old, this fully
7:01
Speaker 2: girl and adult who dealt with this problem herself. Went
7:04
Speaker 2: up there in the after I'd laying there for ten minutes,
7:07
Speaker 2: just really reflecting on I've raised an adult and she
7:11
Speaker 2: can now deal with things on her own, including a possum.
7:14
Speaker 2: And I went upstairs and the possum had got itself
7:17
Speaker 2: out through the window that had come in. There were
7:19
Speaker 2: droppings all over her desk, next to her perfume bottles
7:21
Speaker 2: and you know, and her books, and I just thought, wow,
7:25
Speaker 2: I am so fortunate that this human I've created this
7:28
Speaker 2: human and I get these experiences all the time. Look,
7:31
Speaker 2: I will say there were moments in the park when
7:33
Speaker 2: I was pushing them and I had a deadline, and
7:35
Speaker 2: I you know, it wasn't I as a journalist. It
7:37
Speaker 2: was I have a very sort of erratic working life.
7:40
Speaker 2: But I'm really grateful. There's nothing in my life that
7:45
Speaker 2: means more than them, and I'm so grateful I had them.
7:48
Speaker 2: And I just don't hear that story anymore. I don't
7:51
Speaker 2: hear the joy of it. I hear how tired is
7:53
Speaker 2: how I need to have a glass of wine to
7:55
Speaker 2: get through it. And I'm not critiquing any of that,
7:57
Speaker 2: but I just wonder if we were more present with it,
8:00
Speaker 2: and if we you know, one of the reasons I
8:02
Speaker 2: wrote the headline is I did that you know it
8:04
Speaker 2: needs a pr job. Is that the government, the treasurer
8:06
Speaker 2: is talking about we need more kids. The birth rates
8:09
Speaker 2: fall and it's dropped significantly in cities, but rather than
8:12
Speaker 2: just saying have a child, we're not really showcasing how
8:16
Speaker 2: joyous it can be. And the and I just think
8:19
Speaker 2: if we can encourage more conversation about it so that
8:22
Speaker 2: when that thirty year old sits down, we're thinking about
8:24
Speaker 2: having a baby, the friend says, oh, yeah, we were,
8:27
Speaker 2: you know, we had a hard night. But honestly, that smile,
8:30
Speaker 2: that little smile just makes my day. I just don't
8:33
Speaker 2: think we're hearing that we skew to the negative.
8:43
Speaker 1: Angela. I've become a grandfather, and it's brought back the
8:47
Speaker 1: most joyful and delightful parts of what parenting is. A
8:51
Speaker 1: sense as I'm listening to what you're talking about that
8:55
Speaker 1: a lot of people are focused on the short term.
8:57
Speaker 1: And the short term is poo explosions that go up
8:59
Speaker 1: the back and out the neck of the jumpsuit. The
9:01
Speaker 1: short term is sleepless nights. The short term is I
9:05
Speaker 1: don't want to eat my dinner on the green plate.
9:07
Speaker 1: I want the blue plate. And of course we've got
9:09
Speaker 1: things like diagnoses and the work, the work juggle, trying
9:13
Speaker 1: to get family life around that. And yet I see
9:17
Speaker 1: that little soon to be one year old smile at me,
9:21
Speaker 1: and I just I almost want to weep. It's so gorgeous.
9:24
Speaker 1: And the long term, the long term of parenting is,
9:28
Speaker 1: as you've said, seeing this twenty year old deal with
9:30
Speaker 1: the possum that got into the room overnight, and I
9:33
Speaker 1: don't know, your child still managed to survive, didn't end
9:35
Speaker 1: up with scratches and have her eyes gouged out by
9:38
Speaker 1: by that possum. The long term is becoming a grandparent,
9:42
Speaker 1: like I mean, that's a really long term play. But
9:44
Speaker 1: oh my goodness, I'm getting weepy just thinking about it.
9:47
Speaker 1: The long term is seeing your child achieve something where
9:50
Speaker 1: they defy the odds. The fulfillment that comes from that
9:53
Speaker 1: is so extraordinary. But I wonder, I wonder if you
9:57
Speaker 1: were to reflect on what you wrote in this article
9:58
Speaker 1: about parenting needing a pr job, and if you were
10:01
Speaker 1: to take the straw man argument that so many make
10:05
Speaker 1: that parenting is too hard and turn it into a
10:08
Speaker 1: steel man where we argue that parenting is worth it
10:12
Speaker 1: while still maintaining that sort of short term focus, because
10:15
Speaker 1: when you're talking to a twenty four year old or
10:17
Speaker 1: a thirty four year old, they're not really looking twenty
10:19
Speaker 1: to thirty years down the track. They're just thinking, I've
10:21
Speaker 1: got to go through twenty to thirty years of investment
10:23
Speaker 1: and pain to get to this payoff that I'm describing.
10:26
Speaker 1: How would you steal man that short term argument.
10:29
Speaker 2: I'd go macro over micro. We're always thinking about the micro.
10:34
Speaker 2: We're always thinking about this one minute when this kid
10:37
Speaker 2: is putting their fingers into the power points, or when,
10:40
Speaker 2: as you say, they want the green plate not the
10:42
Speaker 2: blue plate, or they have had a meltdown in the supermarket,
10:46
Speaker 2: or they're not sleeping. That's all micro. Those are all micro,
10:50
Speaker 2: just as you have micro experiences in the workplace you
10:54
Speaker 2: as a journalist, I might spell something wrong, well there's
10:56
Speaker 2: something grammatically incorrect, or I'm trying to get an interview
10:58
Speaker 2: with someone and I don't get it. They're all micro.
11:01
Speaker 2: The macro is that I've loved my journalism career. So
11:05
Speaker 2: you can if you take a macro approach to parenting,
11:08
Speaker 2: it's pulling back out from the micro. So actually draw
11:11
Speaker 2: your lens back out as if you've got a camera
11:13
Speaker 2: on it, sail above it, take a bird's eye view
11:16
Speaker 2: on it, and think where will this be? You know,
11:19
Speaker 2: what was it like for my parents? What was it
11:21
Speaker 2: like when these children potentially do have grandchildren. Just pull
11:25
Speaker 2: back the lens and think what could this be in
11:28
Speaker 2: years to come. I can't you know, even if you
11:31
Speaker 2: can't really envisage it, use your imagination, because there was
11:36
Speaker 2: a reason you had them in the first place, right
11:38
Speaker 2: you didn't just you know, most people would have planned
11:40
Speaker 2: having a child. You would have imagined some kind of magic. Okay,
11:43
Speaker 2: and the magic that created them were you all know,
11:45
Speaker 2: the magic that mostly creates them. Sometimes there's you know,
11:48
Speaker 2: there's other magic either year it's magic too. Try and
11:51
Speaker 2: impart the magic that led you to create them to
11:54
Speaker 2: the magic that you'll end up with in the end,
11:57
Speaker 2: and not just in the end, ye every day some Yeah,
12:03
Speaker 2: there might be something hard or something negative, but there's
12:06
Speaker 2: still magic. But I think one of the hardest things
12:09
Speaker 2: is that the negativity and round parenting has grown as
12:12
Speaker 2: we've had dual working parents, and I think so we've
12:17
Speaker 2: lent into that productivity means we do that it's a
12:19
Speaker 2: different lifestyle, we have more kids in childcare. I totally
12:24
Speaker 2: understand all of that, but I wonder if we also
12:28
Speaker 2: think about legacy, Like I know a lot of kids
12:30
Speaker 2: at school they do they do this thing in their
12:32
Speaker 2: later years where they think about what their encouraged to
12:34
Speaker 2: think about what their legacy will be. I think your
12:36
Speaker 2: legacy when you're parenting. You know, I've had times when
12:40
Speaker 2: I've given my all to my work, like I'm on
12:43
Speaker 2: a deadline. Even the other night, my daughter wanted me
12:45
Speaker 2: to watch the NRL with her, and I was trying
12:47
Speaker 2: to deal with something sitting on there, and that later
12:49
Speaker 2: that night I went, she just really wanted me to
12:51
Speaker 2: watch the footy with her. Why did I not watch
12:54
Speaker 2: the footy with her? I was just thinking I had
12:55
Speaker 2: to deal with this thing right now. I think just
12:58
Speaker 2: sometimes what is what's the end game here? And the
13:01
Speaker 2: end game is that you have these beautiful people in
13:04
Speaker 2: your lives forever more hopefully.
13:06
Speaker 1: The key word perspective, Yeah, yeah.
13:09
Speaker 2: It is. It really is perspective. And you know, I
13:14
Speaker 2: don't know how we actually do it. I don't know
13:16
Speaker 2: how we sell it, but it feels to me like
13:18
Speaker 2: we need an add campaign around it, just as we
13:21
Speaker 2: did were smoking and seat belts and if we really
13:24
Speaker 2: want to encourage parenting and look, I did this child
13:27
Speaker 2: Free by Choice feature last year three thousand words for
13:30
Speaker 2: Weekend magazine for News Corp. And I was really interested
13:33
Speaker 2: in what all these people had to say. A lot
13:35
Speaker 2: of them was environmental, a lot of them was cost
13:37
Speaker 2: of living issues. I understand that, I do understand how
13:41
Speaker 2: expensive it is, but I wonder whether we were to
13:44
Speaker 2: talk more about that moment when they snuggle into your
13:48
Speaker 2: bed and all the lovely things that you get, you know,
13:51
Speaker 2: when they talk to you, if you could record their
13:53
Speaker 2: conversation and listen back to it sometimes, that's so funny.
13:57
Speaker 2: My daughter when she was little, when she said, you know,
13:59
Speaker 2: it was asking about how she was born, and she said,
14:02
Speaker 2: you know, when you were pregnant with me, if I
14:04
Speaker 2: did a handstand, if you did a handstand, would you
14:06
Speaker 2: would I have come out your mouth like that. She
14:09
Speaker 2: couldn't conceive of how you could have a baby, and
14:11
Speaker 2: you tell me and it not fall out. I just
14:14
Speaker 2: I don't know. I just think there's magic that you
14:15
Speaker 2: don't expect and that we don't give up on it,
14:18
Speaker 2: but we we forget it.
14:20
Speaker 1: Angela, I want to share a story with you. It's
14:22
Speaker 1: a story that I've shared in my presentations over the years,
14:25
Speaker 1: and I'd love to get your reaction to it as
14:27
Speaker 1: we come to a conclusion. The story's actually got nothing
14:30
Speaker 1: to do with parenting. It's a story about a young
14:32
Speaker 1: man who heard about a gold rush in the west,
14:35
Speaker 1: so he packed up his things and decided to go
14:38
Speaker 1: and make his fortune. He sat down by the river
14:41
Speaker 1: and he panned day after day after day looking for
14:43
Speaker 1: all of the gold that he was hearing about. Nuggets
14:45
Speaker 1: were apparently rolling down the river, and all he was
14:48
Speaker 1: finding was rocks. He'd pull another rock out of the
14:51
Speaker 1: pan and add it to the pile beside him, day
14:53
Speaker 1: after day after day, all of these rocks mounting up
14:56
Speaker 1: beside him, until he's destitute. He's got nothing left, and
14:59
Speaker 1: he knows that he's going to have to go home
15:00
Speaker 1: and ask his parents to take him back so he
15:01
Speaker 1: can start his life all over again, just a lot
15:04
Speaker 1: poorer than he had been before he went out to
15:05
Speaker 1: the gold fields. As he was preparing to pack up
15:09
Speaker 1: and leave, an old man, a wealthy prospector walked past
15:12
Speaker 1: him and kicked at the pile of rocks and made
15:14
Speaker 1: the astute comment, that's quite a pile of rocks you've
15:17
Speaker 1: got there, to which the young man responded, there's no
15:21
Speaker 1: gold here, just stupid rocks. I've worked, I've given everything,
15:25
Speaker 1: I've lost everything. I'm going home. The old man picks
15:28
Speaker 1: up one of the rocks and he cracks it open
15:30
Speaker 1: on the edge of the pan, and as he holds
15:32
Speaker 1: it open, a whole lot of gold flecks glisten reflecting
15:36
Speaker 1: in the sun. And the wise old prospector says, you're
15:39
Speaker 1: sitting on a pile of gold right here. The young
15:42
Speaker 1: man responds, no, no, no, no no, I'm not looking for
15:45
Speaker 1: gold flex. I'm looking for nuggets like you've got in
15:47
Speaker 1: your pouch. The old man opens the pouch that's on
15:50
Speaker 1: his belt, and the young man is chagrined, surprised to
15:53
Speaker 1: see that the pouch is full not of nuggets, but
15:56
Speaker 1: of gold flex, to which the old man responds, young man,
16:00
Speaker 1: it's a steady accumulation of these flecks of gold that
16:02
Speaker 1: has made me rich. As I hear you talk about parenting,
16:06
Speaker 1: needing a PR job, and the things that you've shared
16:09
Speaker 1: in this podcast, which have just been beautiful, so heartwarming,
16:12
Speaker 1: my sense is that the best PR job we could
16:15
Speaker 1: have is to notice the thousands of flex of gold
16:20
Speaker 1: that passed by us every single day in the river
16:22
Speaker 1: of family life.
16:24
Speaker 2: I love that it's kind of like glimmers, isn't it
16:26
Speaker 2: noticing glimmers. I've saw that word recently. When something just
16:31
Speaker 2: glimmers it catches your eye. It doesn't have to last
16:34
Speaker 2: very long. It's just a moment. It's just a moment.
16:36
Speaker 2: Inhabit it, see it, feel it, because that's all we
16:40
Speaker 2: ever have is glimmers. And you know, there is not
16:42
Speaker 2: some moment that you arrive at some imagine tomorrow that
16:46
Speaker 2: is perfect with you know your child is perfect. That's
16:49
Speaker 2: just what life is. It's just this parenting. It's an
16:53
Speaker 2: opportunity to be at the cold face of life, doing
16:56
Speaker 2: it beautifully some days, and struggling the days and just
17:02
Speaker 2: in finding it all and wretching because if it's all
17:04
Speaker 2: just smooth and even that's not a life, it's never
17:07
Speaker 2: going to be a life. So parenting's the same. It's
17:10
Speaker 2: an appreciation that it's going to be. You know, it's
17:14
Speaker 2: going to have moments. But as you say, and as
17:17
Speaker 2: that story shows, it's really choosing what you see. It's
17:21
Speaker 2: choosing what you notice. And if you choose to notice
17:24
Speaker 2: the negative, that's what your story will be. If you
17:26
Speaker 2: choose to notice those little flecks of gold, that's what
17:29
Speaker 2: your story will be.
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Speaker 1: Parenting needs a pr fix. Angela Mollard. I vote for
17:34
Speaker 1: you as the person to lead the campaign.
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Speaker 2: Oh like you, Justin Miner are a bit more grown
17:40
Speaker 2: up now, so I'm handing the baton on to the
17:42
Speaker 2: younger parents. But talk about it, talk about the great stuff.
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Speaker 1: Well, there's something that comes though with being an older
17:48
Speaker 1: parent and having been through it, you can see why
17:50
Speaker 1: it's so worthwhile. I think you've done a beautiful job
17:53
Speaker 1: articulating that today. Thank you for your article and thanks
17:55
Speaker 1: for chatting with me.
17:56
Speaker 2: Thanks Justin. It's a pleasure.
17:58
Speaker 1: Angela Mollardist, journalist, radio, television, magazine and newspaper, writer and
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Speaker 1: commentator and all the rest of it. Most regularly with
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Speaker 1: the News Corp papers on a range of topics, including
18:12
Speaker 1: the one that we shouldn't leave alone, parenting. The Happy
18:16
Speaker 1: Families podcast is produced by Justin Roland from Bridge Media.
18:18
Speaker 1: For more information about finding the joy in parenting, please
18:21
Speaker 1: visit us at happy Families dot com dot you and
18:23
Speaker 1: check out my book What Your Child Needs from You.
18:26
Speaker 1: It is a book about the joy of parenting and
18:28
Speaker 1: I think that it will help you to get the
18:30
Speaker 1: reset that you need to make your family happier.