Latest / The Bridges and Beacons Podcast / Building Belonging with Kevin Moreau

Transcript

Building Belonging with Kevin Moreau · The Bridges and Beacons Podcast

• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to the Mystic Nerd Squad podcast.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Kelly Meyerson, and today I'm joined by Kevin Moreau, aka Mr.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Mingle.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm going to tell you a little bit about him before we get started with this amazing conversation.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Kevin Moreau, aka Mr.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Mingle, empowers Misfits to embrace their uniqueness and transform perceived weaknesses into strengths.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: A neurodivergent, multi-passionate trailblazer, Kevin's journey spans anthropology, dance, and geek culture.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: As a Misfit empowerer and Alistic coach, he leads the Happy Misfits movement to inspire connection, joy, and resilience.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: There is nothing that I'm not like, oh my gosh, this is amazing.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: That is just such an amazing bio.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I know what an incredible person you are.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Mr.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Mingle, thank you for joining me today.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, you're you're so very welcome.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you for inviting me.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm super, super excited to be part of this podcast.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: I I am too.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: And there are so many parts of that that I'm really excited about in your bio.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: In particular, the end result of connection, joy, and resilience, resilience.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this is such an important time for all of us to really feel connected, to embrace joy, and to experience more resilience because there are a lot of things going on.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: There's polarization.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: And yet I find, and I'm sure you'll say the same, I'm meeting the most incredible human beings across the globe, and so many people who really believe that it's time to be who we are uniquely.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I just want to say at the outset that for some people, it doesn't feel safe to be who you are.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe it isn't.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe it's psychological safety, maybe it's physical safety.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: But what we'd really like you to feel by the end of this podcast is that even if where you are now and who you're with now, you're not feeling the experience of true belonging, and you're still trying to fit in.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: By the end of this podcast, we'll have some tips and tricks for you and some places that you can go to find that connection and community you're probably seeking.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: How does that sound?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Good, good.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: So where do we begin?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: I I really relate to you on so many levels, um, from the neurodivergent piece to the multi-passionate piece, um, to the piece of at some point in my life feeling like belonging wasn't just a possibility, that it was just not gonna be for me.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna have to keep fitting in.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so tell me a little bit about your journey.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Was there a time that you were like, I I'm gonna do everything I can to fit in because I am such an outlier and I feel like I don't belong here.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: So and there are there are actually so many chapters about that, but uh, I want to, and just so you know, so I'm neurodivergent, right?
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I tend to have my mind jungle go wild.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I will do my very best to stay focused and and to just tackle one topic at a time.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing it especially for myself, right?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: To just it it's a good habit.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: But um so instead of trying to cover that on all the different iterations, I will just focus on on one, the most meaningful, um, I believe.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: And um yeah, really to me, there was especially so uh when I was eight, my parents moved uh so from one part of France to another.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, so I always have been different based on the feedback I received from my parents and and friends of my parents.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: I always had been singular, I always had been kind of odd, not necessarily negatively, uh, but I was like I was special.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um and when I arrived in this new city, it hit me hard.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: I was alien to them on different uh on different sides because I was coming from another part of France, but also because I was behaving weird.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: I had weird um centers of interest, and I just yeah, I wasn't fitting their their picture.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: And you most probably know kids, they are building their identity over time, right?
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh they were granted an identity by their parents, and and usually, especially uh when you're starting you know around seven, eight, to ten before teenhood, you start to question that.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: You start to kind of test that.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: And at some point, when you really go teenager, then okay, you know what, let's blast that away, let's destroy this identity and create my a new one.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's at least for for many uh many kids, it's how it happens, right?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and really I I landed at the absolute worst time for them.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: They were kind of reconsidering finding new ways to understand their own identity and how the world worked for them.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then I arrived and I was like, oh, what that, what that creature from outer space.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so they wildly rejected me.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I really, for the first time in my life, I strongly felt rejected, strongly felt uh repelled in a way.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: And uh and yeah, they they started to bully me uh for for uh for long years, but actually it's not the point.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: The point is I wanted to fit in, I wanted to make new friends because actually I love making friends, I love connecting with people, meeting new people.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: They wouldn't allow that.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: So actually, you know this uh rate of passage of sorts for for many kids that you will be offered a cigarette and to see if you're cool enough to join the group.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I never had that opportunity.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: They they did wouldn't even do that, they wouldn't even test me, which actually now I see was a blessing.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: I was spared of a lot of uh health troubles, and I uh avoided to lose a lot of money uh because they really wouldn't allow me to fit in, no matter what.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so that came with a lot of pain back then, but actually it brought a lot of goodness.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: It allowed me to grow my way, it allowed me to grow my unique way, or at least a unique way, and later on to connect with people that did the same, that were very alien, very weird, very uh misfits as well.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think what I've recognized a lot too in my own neurodivergent journey, um, having ADHD and not realizing I'm in my 40s that I've had ADHD my whole life.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: And there's this piece of ADHD, it's called RSD or rejection sensitivity dysphoria.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: And what basically happens is you're more prone to feel the experience of rejection.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it can be triggered by actual perception of rejection, especially if you're a kid.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: But it's also that feeling of like, I've done something wrong.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm not fitting in, I got an answer wrong on the test, I raised my hand and I said the wrong thing.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and knowing that now and looking back at the younger version of me experiencing the RSD, it's such a hard balance between really being who you are, um, whether that's perceived as weird, you're a geek, you're a nerd, for me, all of those things.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um and also feeling the rejection.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: So so desiring to just be yourself and also feeling like it's it hurts to be myself sometimes, literally is a painful experience.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but do you relate to that at all?
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: That sense of the RSD.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, absolutely.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so and I can't the other thing with this uh concept that has been researched in in psychology, uh, it's very good that we had um scientists uh really having broader picture because otherwise we can't know because it's so personal.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that you can't realize uh uh if you start to associate that with yourself.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I was exactly in the same.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I started to question uh that whenever someone reacted negatively, I I started to ask myself, what did I do wrong?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: What's going on?
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: To the point for for in my case that whenever people demonstrated any any sliver of um of anxiety, of anger, or or uh a negative feeling, I would assume it was because of me.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: Or whenever I I would I would hear um uh people laughing or giggling, I would assume they were mocking me, actually.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so it might seem very self-centered, and I I assume it is uh to some degree, but it was really because I've been kind of for so long, for for eight long years, I've been bullied uh by uh classmates, and actually some people I considered my fronts, quote unquote.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so obviously it messed me up quite nicely.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so I was you know uh mixing love and hate and and and belonging and rejection all at once.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so at some point I started to do that to myself.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: I became my own bully, I started to self-bully.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I was blaming myself, and once again, I assumed that most probably if someone was angry at something, I had something to do with it.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and uh so I guess it's really really linked to that.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: Just I recently discovered uh an incredible tool I would love to share that that actually explains so many things about uh you know those that difficulty to find yourself, to really you know finding the one core identity, a homogenous um aligned identity, because actually, yeah, at least uh for for this uh practice, it doesn't exist.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's fascinating.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure you'll you'll love it, but we'll see if we if we have time.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, I love that.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that that's such a critical piece, the the bullying that shifts from being external to being your own internal bullying of yourself.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that for me, and I'm sure for many people, is a lot of the work, you know, the healing, the moving towards how do I shift from all of the negative self-talk and you know, being neurodivergent, our brains memorize information and replay it like a broken record.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: I could listen to the same song all day long in my head perfectly.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, those things really stick and they stay, and and making those changes is quite a bit of work and energy.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, has that been your experience as well?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd say like the most critical, uh the the real the most critical point I identified.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so maybe for some people it will it was a given and and they they might they might be uh kind of uh laughing at me and like oh it's it took you so long to realize that.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, maybe some people are still stuck in that and still don't realize, but for the longest of time, and honestly, I don't remember when I finally realized when I did the shift, but maybe like yeah, I'd say 15 years ago, uh but yeah, maybe even uh earlier.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, uh so for the longest of time, I didn't separate myself from my emotions and my thoughts.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I believed my thoughts were my thoughts, and not that I was having thoughts.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Same with my emotions, instead of realizing I had emotions, emotions were going through my body, and I was able to perceive them, I believed these were my emotions, that these emotions were directly mine, uh, and and I didn't have any distance from that.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: So what whatever I was thinking or feeling, to me, it was directly mine, it was directly what was happening into me, which now I realize was an absolute lie.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that I am able to think, I am able to perceive my thoughts, but my thoughts are not me, they are my thoughts, same with my emotions.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and so uh, folks, if you if you never realize that, that's a big one.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: So so welcome to an entire new world.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, because to me it has been like you know, uh this word game changer is very overabused already already.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like we can see it uh everywhere, but really to me, it has been an absolute game changer.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like suddenly I was able to distance myself from my thoughts and emotions and not feeling trapped until then.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: I felt like uh uh in in the bad days, I felt like a wild animal trapped in into a cage way too uh tiny uh for its size, and it felt oppressing, it felt like I I it drove me mad, quite literally.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, especially when you're uh neurodivergent, right?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: And when you have like uh an entire jungle of thoughts uh and emotions, uh unruled uh thoughts and emotions.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: It just it can be managed until you realize, hey, you know what?
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: This is not me.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: I have that.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: This is to my service if I want to, but I don't have to be the slave of my emotions and and thoughts.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: I can befriend them, I can control and channel and direct them, so it totally changes the game.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I totally agree.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was probably somewhere in my early 30s, I found um the book The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I I got it on audiobook and I would play it in my car.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: And when he started to talk in the book about being the watcher, you're the watcher.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: I it really was, I agree, it was a game changer.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: It changed literally the way I thought about things, and it suddenly gave me some distance from everything, and there was so much space to heal after that.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because every time I started to feel, you know, some of those things that come up, he talks about the pain body.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and anytime that pain would happen, I would remind myself, just you're the watcher.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's not happening to you.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: Those, like you said, those aren't my emotions.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm having an emotion.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't belong to me.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's so so huge.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: I wish there was a bigger word than game changer, but yeah, I agree with you.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: It is, it really is.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope you're right.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: I hope somebody is listening and just puts that to the test a little bit, kind of goes a little deeper into awareness and realizing there's only now.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm watching this, I'm an observer.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you were a spirit, whatever you want to call it, embodied and having a human experience.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: And this is the one that we've potentially chosen for ourselves.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know that for sure.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's kind of what I believe that this is the journey we picked.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um and for me, the timing couldn't be better for for this time in world history and human history, um, to be able to feel and experience so much, even though it can feel overwhelming, especially with a neurodivergent brain, especially with a brain that's always perceiving everything.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: I I think I don't I don't really relate to the experience of people who are not neurodivergent thinkers.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what quiet in the brain is.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: For years, I tried to meditate and I was like, I can't get it quiet up there until I realized like it doesn't get quiet up there.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: It just doesn't.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's just, but I can put some distance between my me, my experience and just watching and allowing.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I actually have a practice that I've used in meditation, I've talked about before on the podcast, where I actually see my thoughts as a little girl, little me, and I just invite her to come sit with me and meditate.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it's okay for her to be wiggling in her seat and getting up and down and looking at things around the room and smelling the flowers and singing a little song she has in her head, because it's okay.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: She can be there with me.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: I can still enjoy the benefits of meditation without having to berate this little child who just can't help that she's so excited about everything in the world.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: Which is wonderful.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like we actually, you know, it's it's one of the things that most adults miss the most.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: That um faculty, that ability to wonder, that that sense of wonder that only kids have at that high peak.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: This is phenomenal.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like you uh uh you having the power to reconnect with that at will, this is fantastic.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, like some people could could feel like no, this little girl should be grounded, it's bothering me, it's it's uh disturbing me.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh come on, like this this is the the holy grail of so many people.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: So you having the ability to tap into that, um, I feel it, it's so very precious.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I I love that.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: I I I applaud that you you've been able to to build a practice to really make your your inner child uh feel welcomed and and and yeah, and just connect you to this invitation to play and and wonder and and explore.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's and I also think it reflects how I want to treat children, real children in in the real world.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I in my day job, I work with kids and I work with kids who are school-aged.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: And many of the children I work with have, you know, neurodivergent diagnoses and other brain-based challenges.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I always see myself as this advocate for them, for them to be able to be who they are and not feel like there's something wrong with them, you know, and to help other adults that work with them to see who they really are and how special they are, and not to, like you said, not not to see yourself as your feelings, not to see kids as their, you know, quote unquote behaviors, because behavior is just a symptom of something else, but to see them as who they are.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: They're a child who has a diagnosis who has some challenges, but that's not who they are.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Those are just things that are pieces of them that are about them.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: But as an adult, we get to look at that and and really seek to deeply see what makes.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: Makes them unique and special and celebrate it with them.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: That we don't always have to apply this lens of like, let's investigate and find what's wrong with you and fix it, make it better so that you can perfectly fit into this one model.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's a little bit of my soapbox there, you know, for all the kids having to, you know, be able to sit still and pay attention, which I'm I'm an occupational therapist.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, and and my background is in sensory integration.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: So sitting still and paying attention is often doesn't go together.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know about you, but I often, if I've got music on and I'm moving around and I'm listening to something, I'm learning it better than if I were to sit still and try to focus on it.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and in little brains, they're not ready to sit still, you know?
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: So that's just my soapbox moment.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's something I hope somebody listening will say, oh my gosh, I need to apply that to the children in my life and realize that, like you said, that that sense of wonder and innocence and like pure bliss in what the day might have.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, kids get up and they run down the stairs for like excited for what's gonna happen today.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um and they're very present in their lives, you know.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's something that I love about being neurodivergent, because literally, like, you know, we joke, you say, squirrel, you know, and you're you're looking to see the squirrel.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: But instead of saying, like, oh my gosh, I can't focus, it's like, I am so aware of beauty and magnificence and excitement and wonder and fun.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: And getting to allow my brain to exist that way and not feel like there's something wrong with me makes life a whole lot more fun.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh, yeah, absolutely.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: I love it so much.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: I I feel I don't know how about you, but um there are like three massive pillars uh for me uh in in terms of um it goes beyond personal development and and just like making your watering yourself like like a beautiful plant and really flourishing uh the most beautifully you can.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: And those three are compassion, gratitude, and forgiveness.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh those three are three meta keys opening a cornucopia of goodness.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh they are absolutely fantastic.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I really believe that this sense of wonder, this amazing sense of wonder from kids, you tap directly into your potential to gratitude.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, there is something really directly linked.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: If you can really play play fully with your inner child or whatever you call it, and and really reconnect with that, that ability to open gigantic eyes full of stars uh by discovering something new and fascinating and yummy, uh, that is phenomenal.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: And and there is innately some gratitude in it.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and you don't even have to express it.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's always better if you do, right?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: But you you it just comes as a given.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: When you see a kid with gigantic eyes, uh like it feels uh like Christmas to them.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: There is so much gratitude linked to it.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and there is something, and I'd say that type of gratitude naturally expands into compassion.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, naturally allows you to grow to grow your your hurt.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: So basically, you're tackling two of these meta keys at once, one after the other.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Forgiveness, it's something else, it's it's more complicated to navigate, right?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's more you need to be much more intentional.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: But you're you're already like doing more than half of the hard work.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I feel it's it's extremely powerful.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, just it doesn't have to be very difficult to do.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh just you know, trying to to remember what it was to discover the world when you were four or five years old, or just trying something new and exciting, you know, and really like seeing as many as often as possible, seeing trying new things as an adventure.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like you you would be um a frod on uh and and the and the gang and exploring, you know, exploring the um uh the the uh land of the uh Lord of the Rings.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you you being really feel feeling that you're an adventurer and you're going to explore and have fun.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, it might be scary at times, uh might not feel so good at times, but still being on an adventure.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: I love that so much.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: And um I remember when we first met and we were conversing and talking about all of the the fantasy books and things that really influenced just this excitement of like things could be completely different, you know, and expanding your mind in that way.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um I love that.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Speaking of reading, I I've been such a passionate person for self-development.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I I feel like it's made a shift in the past few years, less about the personal development and more about really understanding myself better and really digging deeper into the layers.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, one of the ways that I've done that is through the exploration of human design and understanding what that energetic blueprint means.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's so many different ways to look at that.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I know this is an area that's really interesting to you, that that sense of understanding yourself.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, how does that go for you?
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: How do you like to investigate who you are?
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I I studied that a long time ago because that the thing, especially, yeah, I I I'd say it it comes from negative and I turn it into uh positive.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because once again, because I felt there was something wrong with me, because I was so different.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: I try to understand why.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Why am I so different?
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: What is wrong with me, and how could I fix it?
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: At least it was the initial intention.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: And after some time I realized, hey, you know what?
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: No, there is absolutely nothing wrong with me.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have to fix it.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh no, it comes with a price, it comes with some downsides, there are some upsides.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm not always able to uh to seize, like you, you know that, right?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: As a neurodivergent, uh, you you know it it comes with benefits, but it also comes with prices.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, some hidden, some not so much.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so really how could I um develop that?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, get the very best of the benefits and have the the nicest, not so so threatening price.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and so so all all is good, right?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh so I started this uh a long time ago through through many many practices, especially.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I started to explore some um Chinese um Chinese wisdom, ancient Chinese wisdom.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: I explored some Japanese, some yeah, many different practices.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and at some point, really, what allowed me to understand myself the most were personality tests.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the very first I discovered was ProcessCom, that has been very big uh a few decades ago.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: Nowadays, not so much, not so many people uh remember process com.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but others are much more famous these days, like Myers Briggs or Energram.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: Human design, you mentioned actually, I discovered very recently.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: And all these different personality types really brought a lot of understanding.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: They really allowed me to understand myself better.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: I know some people are very resistant to personality tests, they don't want to be boxed.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: They feel it could be restrictive or they feel it is restrictive.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't see it that way.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: I see, on the contrary, it it allows you to shed a very specific type of light on yourself, but it always felt incomplete, it always felt somewhat not cutting it.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so my initial idea for for some time was to combine.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: So so as you can see behind me, I love the uh uh type of stained glass type of work or patchwork.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: I love that idea.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of it was kind of what I was trying to do with my different uh personality tests to have a kind of patchwork of me that would make sense, uh but still it felt like a choice, it felt like a huge walk.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and still it was kind of a little bit off.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like I still couldn't get the full picture.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: And finally, uh a few months ago, I discovered so uh a practice once again from China called Badze.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: And this time it was like, oh my gosh, like uh if if I I'm trying to rate it in a way, every like um every personal test I did, basically they brought me one to two levels of understanding.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: This time I got like 10 at once.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was, whoa, what is that?
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: At the point, it kind of scared me.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: It scared me how accurate it was, it scared me how much valuable information uh it was.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: So at first I was like, whoa, what's get out of my head?
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: What are you doing?
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like it felt almost as an invasion.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh then I realized also how practical it could be, and how practical I could actually uh be able to leverage my strength and mitigate my weaknesses, my natural tendencies.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like, oh wow.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I I did one of the things I love the most.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I nerded out big time, I kicked out big time on this practice.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, the more I deepened it, the more I realized, oh, you know what?
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: You just try to the surface.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: It was just the beginning.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: So actually, there was even more and even more.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: So so to me, it has been like, yeah, I won't use uh game changer this time, uh because it can it can relate to to that realization we we we discussed, but still, like for me, I I I made like a gigantic jump into uh discovering myself.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, very exciting discovery.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that sounds amazing.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't checked this out yet.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: So what how does it I mean I I understand human design, you put in your time of birth, the date where you were, and you kind of get this this energetic blueprint.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: How does this practice work?
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_00: So the short version would be it's human design from the east.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I would assume actually human design has been deeply inspired by uh Badze.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: I can't I can't be sure.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, I haven't researched that.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm pretty sure that there is a connection.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it kind of works the same way.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: There is also uh a birth birth information, um it's based on your birth information, and it really is all about an energetic blueprint.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: But it's not the western elements that are involved, it's not Western the Western way to look at energy, it's the Eastern, or in that case, the Chinese way to look at energy.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: And uh yeah, I don't want to go into details because it will it will uh drown people, but especially like what I mentioned earlier, and and what one of the most important components of that, and and what I find the most fascinating and totally connected to my work, uh so has many things in China, especially when they are old and important practices, but the uh has many names, and the most common is the four pillars of destiny, very pompous, right?
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: Very like very uh serious uh name.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and but actually it's quite accurate, and the idea is you don't have one personality, you have actually four sets of personalities for four different um environments, and you have like the social environment, the career environment, your personal pillar, which like the closest to you.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: And the the last one is the more complex to explain.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's a mix between everything that you create, including your kids, if you have, uh everything that will be burst from you.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: Basically, the all the books you will write, all the songs you will create, all the podcasts you will you will host, everything that you you bring to the world.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and also all your deep desires, all your aspirations, all your kind of your secret garden, what you would like to be when you grow up, whatever age you are.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of a big mix, mixed bag of everything.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I decided to call this pillar legacy pillar, uh, because it's really everything that you leave behind uh to for others to enjoy.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: And and so, and really most people will have a very different uh set of personalities for each pillar, which explains so much to me, uh, which explains especially like why it's so difficult to have one aligned congruent identity.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because if we if you start with a promise that, hey, you know what, in any case, at the very least, you will have four.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: So actually, it explains a lot, and and also one that has been extremely powerful, it explains also why some people change faces.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like you will, for example, you will know someone as a friend, as a distant friend, you you know, you have fun, you you go and have a few drinks, and they will behave a certain way.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then something happened after a couple too much too many drinks, and boom, you know, you're dating them, you're you're in a relationship.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: And if this person actually is very different from the friend you had.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, oh, what happens?
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, actually, so that person was lying, all it was just a facade, that person was behaving in in one way just to please me or to kind of woo me or whatever.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: When actually, uh based on the badger practice, no, it's just they showed up in in with one set of personality in a social setting, and now in a personal, intimate setting, they're showing up in a different, but it's still the same person.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's still them.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it would be like look at a diamond or gem.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: If you move that under the light, you will show a different facet, but it's still the same gem.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're not lying, you're not you're not saying, oh no, it was a fake gem all along because you just shifted the the facet and it it shines back a different type of light.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's still the same gem.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: You just turn the gem and you're showing a different facet.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so to me it has been oh wow, like it explains so many things.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: And and once again, I'm just scratching the surface, right?
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't want to go too deep.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: As you can see, I could I could talk about that for hours, so I won't do that.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: But um, but it's just to give you a few examples on how powerful uh it can be.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's so cool.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm totally interested, and I I appreciate the geeking out on it because that's that's something I enjoy doing as well.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: So let's shift a little bit.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: What are you doing in the world now in terms of you know operating out of those three pillars that you talked about compassion, joy, forgiveness, um, embracing who you are and you know, really finding other misfits, as you say?
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um how does that look for you in in what you're doing and how you're operating in life, in work, in relationships?
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: You could pick one of those.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I I I see that there are many ways to to answer your question, actually.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um so uh would you uh be able to rephrase it so I just focus on one angle, like kind of journalism style?
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, my mind my mind jungle will take over and and and we will we'll go for hours.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: You you can do that.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: How in your work and and what you do um in working with other people and empowering misfits, how is that that you're engaged in that work?
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: What does a typical work day look like for you?
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's uh that's yeah, and it's very, very interesting because I'm currently in a shift.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and very far, thank you so much for for uh reformulating the the question.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought I understood something along those lines, but uh yeah, I it really helps.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: So really appreciate.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: And um and so my starting point and the Mr.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: Mingle, really, my my specialty is relationships.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's something that I'm extremely good at, especially friendships, but really all sorts of relationships.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that was really all the start of my journey uh as a coach and as a trainer to really help others improve the quality of their relationships.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um and at some point I realized there was a massive piece missing.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and that if you want to really improve the quality of your relationship, you better start with one very special relationship with yourself.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: And you don't have like to lock yourself in a cave and do that for 10 years, then go in the world and enjoy a healthy relationship, right?
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, you can do all at once, but you absolutely have to work on the inner, uh do the inner work first and foremost.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it really has to start start in worlds.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: And uh otherwise, you might be very good at connecting with with other people, but we you will still stink inside if you see what I mean.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you're if you're not kind of uh doing your inner um uh clean cleanup, uh yeah, that that won't cut it.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: You might enjoy great friends, but you won't be a great friend to others.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: You you better you better do that.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and plus being your own BFF, your own best friend forever, which is very important.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I really started to to strongly lean in that direction, not forgetting the um end game of uh connecting strongly with other people, but really starting with ourselves.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: And now, so it has been uh several months that I discovered about the and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is so powerful to understand yourself better, to actually lay powerful foundations to improve your relationship with yourself, to understand why you tend to develop addictions to some things, why you know you have natural tendencies, uh, why you tend to go into nasty loops, you it's so difficult to get out to, why you are so very good at some things, uh and or maybe extremely structured in some things and absolutely not in others.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, all of that it gives you a wonderful uh clarity, extremely precise clarity on why you function the way you you do.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: I see it as an operation manual.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the thing when people that are like us that are miss what I call misfits, we don't come with an operation mini uh manual.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: Because the people that fit in, they borrow an operation manual.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: They were like, you know what, I want to fit in, I mock it to to be an obedient uh, you know, uh uh what I call normy, uh just fitting in the norm, and they will borrow this uh this operation manual, like you, you know the drill, like you are supposed to uh to to be married with a nice uh little house in the suburbs with uh a dog.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: Probably a labrador and two and a half kids.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know the drill, right?
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like the picture perfect type of uh life according to society.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: So they will they it's more easy.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: You borrow this operation manual.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is where I should go.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm supposed to be good enough at school, uh, go to the university, have a good enough job.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter if if I'm not fulfilled by my job, it's supposed to pay the bills, so it doesn't matter.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um just work my ass off.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry for the language, excuse my French, as I love to say.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um and just just grind your way uh to be able to send your kids to to university uh when when the time is right, until you might decide to finally enjoy life when you retire.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: Sonza Bell, I I'd say like you probably have around you people following this operational manual.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: You and I, we don't subscribe to that.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: We we never could fit in.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: And and we we uh we but which is to me it's a good thing.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh to me, fitting in is winning at the wrong game.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and to me, the real game is belonging, uh, and starting by belonging with yourself, being authentic with your with yourself and with your own self.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: So based on that, the idea is good thing we avoided this operational manual that obviously wouldn't bring us happiness and joy, but it doesn't mean we know which operation manual we are supposed to follow.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_00: So we have to figure it out because we are so unique, we decided to stick to our uniqueness and not trade it, trade it uh just so we could fit in.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: So we are we are being congruent, but we still have no idea, okay, what does success mean to me?
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: What does joy mean to me?
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: What I'm supposed to do with all my gifts and all my encumbrance uh weaknesses as well, and what I'm supposed to do with all of that, I don't have any clue.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um so so really uh BADZE to me allows you to really have a kind of very clear uh at least foundation to build your own operation manual.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: And once you have that, it's so much clearer, so much easier to do.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I want to do that, and now you can really work on yourself, and then you can uh have this absolutely amazing uh relationships.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um that uh yeah, especially like uh I don't know if you ever uh heard about the ground study, uh the longest study of human behavior uh um in humankind, uh 80 years of of research, a very, very long and powerful study.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: The result of that study, the one component that was the most defining in our capability to be joyful and happy were relationships.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but once again, if you really want to enjoy uh relationships, you better start with yourself.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: And we if you really want to understand how to start with yourself, it's good to have some some good degree of clarity.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a long explanation, but I hope it made it made sense.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: It it made complete sense.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: And um as you were talking about, I was like, yep, me, me, me.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: Went to, I mean, I was literally at 16, like looking at career options and saying, I I need to get a good job, I need to meet someone, I need to, you know, get married, buy the house.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then like I literally did all of that in my early 20s and then found myself at 28 married to someone who was in a crisis and just not a healthy person, wasn't happy by any stretch of the imagination, didn't want to be married, didn't know what he wanted.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I felt like it was like the end of everything for me.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like I never said, like, I'm gonna get married and get divorced.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: But it was such a gift because it really caused me to start to examine everything in my life and say, it, if this was not my life, what would it be like?
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like if I were gonna dream something out of the sky, and a lot of the things that I dreamed ended up coming true.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so in that moment of crisis that I had and and embracing that, I pivoted in a big way.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: And it's almost like there became like this truth stick, and I was like, is this true?
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_01: Is this for me?
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: Is it not?
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_01: And little by little I started to dismantle all those things.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I did all the things, I did the therapy, I did the the reading, I did uh you name it, I tried it.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um to figure out that all along I was not befriending myself, like you said.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that is such a critical piece.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it is a healing, and some of these habits and behaviors we have are just very sticky, and and there's deep grooves in our brains, excuse me, that really we can fall back into so easily.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it just takes some time to heal those patterns and to look at things differently.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: I probably at 16 wouldn't have envisioned my life the way it is now, but I think the core values and who I really was and what was important to me is is what I'm doing with my life.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love it.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: And and yeah, it's it's it's so very, very important when you when you realize, you know, that it's not because many people, most people uh uh uh feel a certain way and behave a certain way and follow one specific operation manual that it has to to to be yours.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: And don't get me wrong, I feel actually it's fantastic that so many people are able to fit in.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um it it gives some kind of foundation of a foundation piece.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_00: Uh what is sad is many of them are unhappy, are deeply unhappy, and they don't even realize why, because once again they are they are playing at the wrong game, they are winning, but at the wrong game, so they are feeling miserable.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm pretty sure actually there are many people uh that really are satisfied of that, and they are they they were meant to fit in, and it's perfect.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_00: So we have like that on corpus, and then you have all the people around, all the misfits, all the weirdos, all the atypical people.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and it's absolutely okay to have both.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_00: And there is no reason we we don't have both.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, so of course, my my my uh mind is heavily um influenced by you know by that badzer thing.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm geeking out big time these days, but it works really like a yin and yang, uh, which is part of the uh badzer.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um like they are they are the the yang and we are the yin or or the other way around, it doesn't even matter, but we we complement each other.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh like the the people on the fringe makes sense because there is a fringe to to begin with, uh, you know, and and there is and there is something central and and steady.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_00: And and I also we we sorry, we also uh give them more more meaning by by by actually defining something outside of that fringe.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_00: I also re uh we also reinforce that uh feeling of them that it is their ground, and some of them feel good about that, some others not so much, but they are not ready and might never be uh to to go and actually fully accept themselves.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_00: So so um I feel it, yeah, it's very interesting.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and actually I I didn't even realize, but it would explain you know that you know tiny uh bit, you know, um in inside of each part of yin and yang, it would it would be like that.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_00: So that actually some people in the fringe should be fitting in, and they probably they weren't being allowed to somewhat, and some people in in in the norm, they actually should be in the fringe.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: And there are there are actually some some people that are not where they are meant to.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I love it too, and I think it's such a beautiful thing to reach a point where you not only have self-acceptance, but you crave that ability to see others as they are and try to be more accepting and understanding.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so I love that piece of those three pillars that you mentioned earlier: compassion, joy, and forgiveness, that having a lot of compassion for other people's understanding underlies that, you know, if you're compassionate, you're seeking to understand better.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_01: And we can apply that to ourselves as well.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think that forgiveness piece is so huge because it would be easy for me to go back and look at myself at 24 and be like, what was wrong with you?
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_01: Why did you do that?
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why would you get married?
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_01: Why would you, you know, and instead I feel like that's just part of my journey.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's not, it doesn't need to, you know, go on the was this a right or was it wrong?
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's neither.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: It just was.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_01: And um, all of that informs who I am today.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm grateful for that.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm grateful for the journeys that I've had.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_01: And um yeah, so I feel like this is such a great place to end this conversation.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: I know I could talk with you for hours on end.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so um just give us your final thoughts.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a great piece of advice for the listener today.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_01: After listening to all of this, what should they do first?
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_01: What do what do you recommend?
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_01: We talked about befriending yourself, we talked about these pillars, we talked about um really exploring who you are and what you're about and and finding that sense of belonging even within yourself.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: What's most important for someone to walk away with today?
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'd say it's quite difficult to really um have one specific answer, uh one-fit-all answer, because that's the thing.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_00: We are so very different.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_00: We come from for so many different backgrounds, and our challenges are all very uh different as well.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I actually, yeah, I just uh just finished uh research recently to really figure out the different common challenges of misfits and and the common ways to overcome them and really become a thriving misfit.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing, there you there are a few like a top three of or four, but they are all very different.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_00: But really, I I'd say uh I'd say the very first I would I would love to to to use like two specific uh very important pieces, and you mentioned one which is extremely important, it it's understanding, open-mindedness, understanding, which uh partly covers um forgiveness, but actually goes even beyond that, and really being able to accept others, accept other paradigms, uh other uh types of uh ideas or other positions, even if they they feel extreme, even if they feel like absolutely opposite to yours, if you are able to have a calm, healthy conversation with someone that actually has the opposite views uh that you you have, it's extremely powerful.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like really embracing this understanding with others and also with yourself, with like, hey, you know what?
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_00: When I was 16, yeah, I did things I don't feel too good about that, right?
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you might feel ashamed, you might feel guilty, you might have tons of negative um uh feelings about that, you might, you might uh yeah, it it might be a uh a way to like being understanding, not complacent, but being being understanding that you didn't know better at that time, you you let you let yourself being um led into that direction.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_00: You you know, you you didn't stand out stand for yourself and you didn't say no to those guys that uh brought you in this uh difficult situation.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_00: No, anything that really be very understanding, and then and those guys or girls that led you into that, they didn't know better themselves.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_00: They were just trying to figure out their own life and their own, they're just experimenting, right?
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_00: So so I'd say like understanding with all its different facets is an amazing skill to build, extremely powerful skill to build.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and another one would be curiosity.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_00: Curiosity, uh which is linked to what we we uh to what we discussed about the the uh inner child.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so it uh and really but it once again it goes be even beyond that, and really being curious and taking taking bold uh lips, not it doesn't have to be dangerous ones, but really taking a chance, trying like if you're always eating the same thing, try something new, try something wild and exotic for a change.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_00: You might be disappointed, that's okay, that's part of the exploration, but you you might be my uh blown away, you're mind-blown by the experience.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_00: It might absolutely transform your your life for the better.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_00: Just try something new uh and explore and be just be curious and try to reconnect with your inner child.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_00: And if something very unusual, very odd, uh very alien cross your your path, just pay attention and be curious.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_00: Ask questions and and uh extend an inviting hand.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh do you know, make make a first step.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_00: And more often than not, uh you you will probably be very surprised.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: Just what came to me, just to finish on that, there is this amazing movie uh with Jim Carrey called uh Yes Man.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's an amazing invitation to curiosity and and and and saying yes to life.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I would say, like, yeah, being open, open-minded and being curious.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, watch Yes Man, you will understand.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's a great movie.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, thank you so much.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's great.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_01: I agree with you.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_01: Understanding and curiosity are two of my favorite words.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that you said those.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I want to thank everybody for listening today.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_01: I want you to thank thank Mr.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_01: Mengel for joining us, for being here, for sharing so much from your heart and your experience.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I look forward to hearing what happens next in your journey.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for being here.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for inviting me.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_00: It was a wonderful, wonderful episode.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_00: Really appreciate it, Kelly.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_01: All right, everyone.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_01: Have a great day, and we'll see you next time.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_01: Bye for now.