Latest / Chatting with The Experts with Paula Okonneh / Growth and Flow: The Power of Beginning with the End in Mind

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Growth and Flow: The Power of Beginning with the End in Mind · Chatting with The Experts with Paula Okonneh

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Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of Chatting with
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the Experts, the TV show where I showcase women from Africa, from the
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Caribbean, and into the diaspora.
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And our mission is to empower, educate, and inspire women globally.
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Sometimes I have men on, but 99 percent of the time it's women.
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And these women are professionals.
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And they're also successful business owners.
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The topic of today is Beginning With The End In Mind, Finding Flow.
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And with me to do that today would be Anyima Okundi.
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But let me tell you a bit about her.
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She's a seasoned entrepreneur and she's an executive coach who has
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managed her own design firm since 2009.
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Throughout her career which spans over 20 years, she has served multiple roles
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cross-organizationally and has gained valuable insights into leadership
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challenges that are common to those building successful organizations.
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So when we talk today about Beginning with the End in Mind, she'll tell you
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that endings have always been the hardest part of life because being an emotionally
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wired person, endings were always very difficult during her childhood.
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But then she discovered through coaching, that endings are much easier to
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celebrate when included at the beginning.
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And so with that, I welcome to Chatting with the Experts, Anyima Okundi.
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Hello.
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Hello.
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I'm so happy that you joined me today in speaking about Beginning with the
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End in Mind because that's something off camera we spoke about that how
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important it is to have the end in mind with everything that you do.
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So thank you for joining us and thank you for being part of us today.
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Yeah.
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Thank you for having me, Paula.
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Really.
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I'm so excited.
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And to manage my nerves, I'm already thinking about the ending.
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So...
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I love it.
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I love it.
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And I know that our guests who have joined us would be so happy to hear
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how you're thinking about your ending.
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Yeah.
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All right.
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So, you know, the thing is, whenever I have guests, I just
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give a snippet of the bio.
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I'm sure you probably have more that you can add to it, you
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know, like, for example, how did you even get into coaching?
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Oh, yeah, that's a good question.
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I stumbled into coaching, actually, on the back of my diploma in
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counseling and psychology.
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And when I was doing my thesis paper for that diploma, I was
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looking at the relationship between mothers and their teenage
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daughters and how they impact women emotionally, mentally and physically.
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And my research group were from my daughter's school, and a lot of them
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were actually corporate professionals.
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And having come from a corporate background in banking and logistics,
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I was now working as an entrepreneur for my own design business.
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And the psychology part of it was because I used to just need to support
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women around loving their bodies when you're making clothes, or even they
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confide, people confiding in you when you're designing their interiors, the
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bedroom, the kids room and tend to talk.
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And it was one of my dear clients actually who said, you know, you're
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so good at this, you should formalize.
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And I've always loved just connecting with people and supporting them.
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So as I did this research, It turns out that the ladies loved it so much, but
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nobody was really ready to have therapy.
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And then another friend of mine said, Oh, coaching.
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Have you thought about coaching then?
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Because I really found an affinity in supporting them because I had
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worked in their world before.
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And that's how I explored then what is this coaching?
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And I found Really, my sweet spot in supporting men and women,
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children, whomever, in finding their voice through different seasons
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and stages of life as a coach.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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And, you know, when you're going through such certifications, whether
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it's as a therapist or a coach, you need to use your own life experiences.
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And so this was the change maker for me, because I got to really take a good look
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at myself and understand myself in order to be able to hold space for my clients.
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And yeah, haven't looked back since.
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So I'm also a coach trainer.
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I'm faculty for coaching diploma.
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I'm a coach supervisor.
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And so I really I'm passionate about supporting the growth of
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people wherever they need me.
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Yeah.
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I love that.
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I love that.
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So you found your own passion.
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You found your own path and you're helping others through
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your discovery to find theirs.
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Yeah, my gosh.
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You know, you mentioned how endings were kind of the hardest part.
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Well, in general, endings are the hardest part of life.
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So what do you mean by that?
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You know, and I think it's really about my life experiences as well.
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My dad was a diplomat, an ambassador.
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So I grew up four years here, five years there.
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And at every point you make friends or something, you say, and then
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you need to move and start again.
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And I think it was really when I was in secondary school in
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Ghana, where I'm originally from though I now live in Nairobi.
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And I went to, those days, Form 1, Form 2, Form 3.
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You've just gelled.
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I mean, and it was boarding school.
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And shout out to all St. Mary's people.
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And yes.
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This was now you were going to be a senior after three
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years you... and then we moved.
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And of course I went boarding school in the UK so I needed
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to be happy and grateful.
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Anybody would say the same in fact my friends in school like you're so
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lucky, but it was the end of such a key time of my life and it really
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impacted me actually, I remember going to this new boarding school in Kent.
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It was lovely where I used to stay in a room full of bunk beds, here we
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were just four in a room, you know.
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There was a lot of loss I experienced, you know, because it had happened so many
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times, whether it was primary school and I didn't cope very well, to be quite honest.
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I remember just finding my solace in the tuck shop,
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yeah, and almost hiding my dissonance because it was not acceptable.
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If I had known the end from the beginning that there would come a time in my life
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where this too would pass, you know, not just as a phrase, but for real.
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And that there would come a time in my life where I would find
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my voice and understand, I would have experienced it differently.
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So a lot of my years in secondary school in the UK because it was on the back of
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a real wrenching of something I wasn't ready to let go of, it was quite... I
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look back and there's a lot of sadness, you know, which you wouldn't see because
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I was, hey, masking with being the bell of that one who is, hey, let's... But
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really, I didn't do endings very well, because I had not been taught how to.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I can see how that could be because my dad wasn't a diplomat,
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but we moved many times.
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And so I understand fully, you know, about creating friendships, trying
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to fit in and knowing that you don't quite fit in, but then there's still
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that nostalgia of where you left.
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Yes.
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And that follows you that comes with you, you know.
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Yeah, and you are always... you can be always the one looking
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for please see me and it's ironic because what I went through actually
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it was the proving ground for.
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Me in marriage because I live in Nairobi, Kenya, because I'm married to a Kenyan.
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And I thought at the time, when I'm an adult, I will live in Ghana.
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That is the end, you know, but by the time I was finishing, you know,
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boarding school, going to uni in East Anglia, doing my post grad in Surrey.
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Yeah, by that time, then you just, you almost numb yourself to, and you move on.
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But it is moving to Kenya 10 years after marriage that really showed
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me the resilience I had built.
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And therefore now looking back to see what did I learn on that journey?
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And really digging into that to propel myself forward as well.
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Yeah.
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So would you say that because of those experiences in your formative years and
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your, you know, your early, middle and later childhood, that's enabled you to
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understand seasons and cycles better?
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It has.
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It actually has, but actually it's my coaching journey that taught
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me that I have tools within me.
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Because as a coach, we know that the answers lie within the
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person whom we are coaching.
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And so I have tools within me if I would dare to go there.
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And a lot of the time, those tools are buried because they
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have a lot to do with endings.
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They're buried in shame, like, all I remember about endings is
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that my reputation was, Oh, as for Anyima, she cries all the time.
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She's so emotional.
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This was synonymous with how I felt about endings, but through
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coaching, I learned that, Oh, what were the tears actually expressing?
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Let's go back and see what can we pick?
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And actually the tears were a real
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digging deeper to make sense of.
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But I didn't have the vocabulary, the words, or even the ability to see
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anything positive in those endings and in those tears, because it's unacceptable.
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Be grateful, you know, you are lucky.
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You are blessed to have these opportunities.
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So what happens with that is you are not maybe allowed to feel.
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And by the way, this isn't... some of that is my own noise from observing.
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It's not even that somebody said that categorically.
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I love my mum and dad and my family.
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And it was very privileged, like, that I had access to education,
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access to what my parents, you know, gave me in that regard, travel.
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However, there's that, you know, what we now call soft skills.
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And the EQ of understanding the impact of things on us from the beginning.
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So imagine moving and being told this is going to be difficult.
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Yeah.
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And when four years time we are going to move and that will be difficult.
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How do we support you?
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It's a very different experience from when it happens.
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And it's like, okay, come on, be strong.
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You can handle it.
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Yeah, you feel me?
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Yeah.
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Yep.
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I understand.
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You know, times have changed and I understand better that we used to be told.
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I remember telling my own children that I was growing up
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in the generation that we did.
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Excuse me.
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My mom used to say feelings were, you know, like what
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you felt, physical feelings.
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But your emotional feelings were not really put into consideration.
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So like you said, you moved and you're so, okay, this is it, you know, grow
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up, bite the bullet and keep moving.
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And so, it's so much later that you realize that you had to
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suppress things and I mean, as you said, we were very privileged.
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I was privileged.
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I realized I've lived in all these different countries.
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I enjoy it now in my latter years because I can, I find that I'm
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able to, I'm very adaptable.
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Adapt.
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There you go.
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Very adaptive.
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I can live anywhere now.
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I can be friends with anyone because what I've learned from that journey
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was that human beings are human beings.
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It doesn't matter what they look like, their skin color, whatever.
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They are human beings, you know?
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But yeah.
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Those formative years of trying to fit in and you know, that's
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the time that children tease you.
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Yep.
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You sound different.
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You're trying to fit in.
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You don't even know how to fit in.
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Yeah, exactly.
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And so the passion that I have about preparing for the end from the beginning,
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for example, I stopped setting new year goals about six years ago.
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What I do is I try to envisage at the end of, now it's 2025 coming up.
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What do I want to feel, have sense?
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And that can come in any manner of ways, as opposed to at the beginning
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of the year, I would say I'm reading 10 books, I'm reading, I'm going to
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I don't know, make three collections because I have a design line.
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And the difference is the flow of my year.
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Well, it will be ruled by the number, the figure I put at the beginning.
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As opposed to at the end of the year, 2025 as a creative person, what do I
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want to feel at the... I want to grow.
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Yes.
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But I also want to have contributed to the design world in some way.
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Because now I know that at the end, when I'm disappointed, when I haven't
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met all those goals, I go into freeze.
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I freeze.
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It inhibits my even creative process.
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Yeah.
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And what that brings is a lot of expectation that
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can make me actually break.
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And so understanding the impact of hard goals at the beginning without
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thinking about, and how will I feel at the end if I've not read 10 books?
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I'll feel like a failure.
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Okay, so what can I think about instead of saying 10 books, how
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can I make this flow for me?
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So I no longer put 10 books.
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What I want to read is things that empower me emotionally, mentally, and physically.
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Maybe that will just be one book and that's okay, because at the end of the
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year, that's what I would be looking for.
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Not the number.
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I love it.
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I really love that.
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So you're setting up expectations and intentional about them
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. And open yourself.
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Now, like you said at the beginning in the little blurb I had said
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is I am emotionally wired.
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You'd call me an empath, even a highly sensitive person.
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That's how God created me.
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I see life in emotions.
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So I used to spend a lot of time trying to help people understand
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either what I mean emotionally, or how they impacted me emotionally.
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I mean, for me, that's how somebody who is a data person, you're a
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mathematician, sees things in numbers.
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That's how you make sense of life.
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Yeah.
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One plus one is two.
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So, okay, now let's move.
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Whereas me, one plus one may be two, but then I'm thinking of, wow, it'll be really
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sad or really hard, or it'll be fearful.
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That's how my brain is wired.
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And so for me, things like ending, it made me understand endings
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and why they impacted me so much.
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But I also found that many, and I would talk about it
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because I'm emotionally wired.
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I would need to talk, but actually many people suppress their
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emotions and get on with life.
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But that is also hurtful.
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Yeah.
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Because then you're not actually processing how you're actually feeling.
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So as a coach, one of the skills is managing a session in the time that
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you have to come out with what is the desired outcome for your client, right?
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Now that outcome depends on them, but it's something that can only
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happen if you contract for it.
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So you talk about it at the beginning.
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So at the end of our time together, what do you want to walk away with?
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How do you want to feel?
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And that's like the miracle question because it allows you then to chart
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the path for your conversation.
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And at the end, you refer back to what you wanted at the
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beginning and it's like voila.
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Even if you've not achieved it fully, you can then say, how far have I come?
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I've made steps.
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And now I can do a bit more by myself.
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Isn't that wonderful?
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That is wonderful.
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That is wonderful.
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And, you know, you said something so as a coach you prepare your
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client to, you know, about, okay, what do you want out of this?
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So there's even a joy, you know, like the joy of the beginning because,
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you know, you're beginning and you're joyful because you're looking forward.
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You've set up expectations, you've let them know, what do you want to achieve?
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So you're not going in with trepidation, you're going in more with expectation
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and joy and thinking, all right.
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This is what we're going to achieve.
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Yeah.
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And also as the coach holding the space, sometimes somebody wants to
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achieve in an hour, something that may take three hours, three sessions.
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And so at the beginning, you're also narrowing it down into an achievable step.
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So wow, this topic, for example, that you're talking about being able to impact
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your team dynamics, for example, so that project timelines are achievable.
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To do that, we have to work backwards to... so today in that one hour.
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We have what is one small value add we could have towards
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that goal, and it might be.
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I really want to understand the impact of not achieving our
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goals and what it has on me.
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For today, if I can understand that, that would be great.
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So by the end of the session, we may not have solved the mystery of how can I
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get the whole team to perform at X. But if I walk away with understanding the
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impact that not performing has on me.
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That would really help me.
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Voila.
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So starting with the end in mind means we manage not only the
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expectations, but our output.
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And then the next session we have, we can take it another step further.
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And when I applied this to my life, really, it applies to everything.
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Parenting, the expectations we put on our children and how they should
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turn out and what they should do.
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Marriage, what should my husband say?
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He hasn't brought me.
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What's the expectation?
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Our workplace growth.
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Friendships.
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Funny story, you know, I'm an organizer and I'm a creative so you
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have a lot of groups that I'm in.
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Oh, yeah.
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Anyima will tell us how it should look.
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It was happening a few times and I just felt like I also want to be those that
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sit and arrive, you know, not be the one who's always in charge of deco.
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But guess what?
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I had to say it.
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Say, okay, so this year for all our activities, can I be the one who arrives.
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Why?
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Because at the end of the year, I want to also be able to give all of
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you your flowers and say, well done.
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Wow, but you are so good.
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Yes.
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But I went to experience.
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So it took that dialogue to express what I wanted to experience at the
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end in order to bring that harmony you know, in my friend group.
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So it applies everywhere.
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Everywhere.
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We talked about beginning and then flow.
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And the way I look at flow is there's a beginning, there's an end,
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and in between that is the flow.
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Is that the way you look at it too?
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The flow is so important, you know, flow there's a book called flow by a writer
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called Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, and it's about the power of latent potential.
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For all of us,
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we are born and there's a destiny or a purpose path for us.
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We all take different varying times to find it, but when we find it, we flow.
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When we are resistant or maybe don't understand, that there is maybe several
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paths and we can choose what resonates.
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We can be in flux as opposed to flow.
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And I'd like to use the sort of life cycle of a river.
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They have a beginning point.
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And in geography, I did geography at A level.
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I remember loving it because you've got Oxbow Lake when they reach
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sort of the middle part of their journey, because now they are.
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They have gathered debris and that will hit certain corners of the land
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and that's how you get the shaping.
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So everything has a purpose.
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You pick up, you're there, you're falling rapidly to create the path.
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And then you've picked up some rocks and then you move with them.
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That makes the shape and then eventually you flow out into the sea.
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In life seasons, or your work path, your parenting, your the
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flow comes with understanding what that journey encompasses.
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And for example, in family life, we do very well in having a bridal shower when
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somebody's going to get married, and a baby shower when they have their kids.
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But nobody has parenting, teenage shower, menopause shower.
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Empty nesting shower to tell you, we should tell the whole story.
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I love that teenage shower, menopause shower and emptiness.
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Empty nesting.
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That's
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good.
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Okay.
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If we could tell the story from the beginning that life is going to
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meander, there'll be disappointments.
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Not all your kids are going to be whatever you envisage for them, but
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that's okay because they'll figure it out.
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So we let go a little bit in order not to break, but we really
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do hold tightly to expectations.
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I did.
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I don't want to disappoint my parents.
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I want to be a good wife, a great mom.
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What does that even mean?
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But when I
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started
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to flow into my seasons, like actually my mom died 2019.
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I had a very serious operation on my shoulder.
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Then we went into COVID.
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Actually, no, a great mom would be me waking up and looking
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after myself in that season.
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Because the end, if I don't do that, is I'm going to break
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because it was just a lot.
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Yes.
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Oh my gosh.
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Now we could talk forever.
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I told you we're gonna go.
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We could talk forever.
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There's so much, so much.
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But you know, we have to leave time for the audience to ask you questions.
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So for those who are not part of the audience and are looking at
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this after it's been posted and would love to get in touch with you.
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How can they find you?
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I'm definitely on LinkedIn.
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All my details are there and email me.
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My emails there.
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You can send me a message, but I am so passionate about helping people
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navigate the seasons, find flow, find their voice authentically,
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and just be their true authentic selves in every area of their life.
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And I love telling stories.
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So yeah, reach out, I'll tell you my stories so you can feel seen.
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Oh, I love it.
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And so again, to my guests and those of you in the audience, I
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want to say thank you for tuning in.
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And also I want to say, if you would like to be a guest on the show,
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just like Anyima has been, please reach out to me on my website,
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which is chattingwiththeexperts.com.
27:45
I'm also
27:46
on LinkedIn as
27:47
Paula Okonneh.
27:48
I'm on Instagram
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and my handle there
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is at chat_experts_podcast.
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And
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I'm also on
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Facebook as Paula Okonneh.
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And every
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guest bring something special and unique to the show.
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And Anyima has been no different.
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Thank you so much for saying yes to being on Chatting with the Experts and
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now you open up the floor to all of those of you who have joined so that you
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can speak with her directly just like I had the privilege of speaking with her.
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Thank you.