Latest / Surviving-ISH Podcast / Beyond Beauty: Healing Trauma, Biology, and Chronic Illness with Dr. Kayte

Transcript

Beyond Beauty: Healing Trauma, Biology, and Chronic Illness with Dr. Kayte · Surviving-ISH Podcast

• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to Surviving Ish.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited about this conversation.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: We have uh a new friend of the show with us today.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Dr.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Kate, if you don't mind, take a moment and introduce us to the listener.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Dr.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Kate, and I'm here today to talk about my book, which is called Beyond Beauty: How Trauma and Repair Shape Biology, Identity, and Women's Health.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: I used to do a lot of podcasts about breast implants and breast implant illness.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, when I went to publish this book, the publisher wanted a book about breast implant injury and illness.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I had learned by that point that the reason why people get chronically ill is a lot more complicated than a single tipping point event, that there's usually a trajectory that's built over a lifetime.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted to write a book around that concept and share the larger picture of my story with chronic illness starting in childhood.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: And the illness didn't start in childhood, but the trauma that changed my nervous system did.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Before we get started, do you have anything that you're barely surviving, a surviving ish that you want to start out with?
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think we were joking off camera that having to answer this question is a petty grievance.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Is that yeah?
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't do well with small talk or being funny.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: I can be very funny with a lot of context and it'll catch you by surprise, but it's like it's not that type of money.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like a shame to say.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: I have no.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have one you want to share?
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that'll icebreak.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: The one that I want to share is there are, you know what?
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: This isn't even funny.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of what we're talking about.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: This is not funny, but this is what has been on my mind today is the whole saying of boys will be boys, or that's boy talk, that's locker room talk.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: I cannot stand it.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm in the south and I respect women and I respect everybody.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: But today I overheard a conversation of the, you know, it's just locker room talk.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's not appropriate.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like it.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: So that is kind of what I'm surviving right now.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's so funny that you mentioned how, oh, you wanted something lighthearted, I don't have one.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: I guess I didn't either.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: But like, how do you feel?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and from your your experience with trauma, with with your medical background, like with those little sayings of like, well, boys will be boys, or it's factory or locker room talk.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do you am I being too much with that, Doctor?
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was actually like so in high school, I and I wrote about this.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was the only girl in an all-boys wrestling team in the South.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I went through a lot as the only girl.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: It was kind of like Lord of the Flies.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I have a very interesting perception of teenage boys and like what that really means.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: I would modify the statement, I'd say men will be boys, because that's my current experience, is that like you think that, and I, you know, there's so many good men, so I'm not in any way trying to like lump people together, but many men as they age remain boys in many ways emotionally.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: And this is like kind of the topics, like you were saying men end up reaching out.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that like as a culture, we're moving into a time where emotions are starting to get the attention that they never got?
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of like this era and phasing.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like as a society, we used to be really focused on health and like diets, and like we'd say like the non-fat diet movement and this movement and weight loss.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then we kind of moved into like mental health, like bullying, and that was like the big thing.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: And now we're kind of moving into like emotions and trauma as a culture.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that eventually we're gonna get more into spirituality and like energetic.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like we're just starting to like avoid what and I think that's an interesting just I what you're talking about hasn't even been on my radar lately because it feels like uh almost an outdated archaic concept.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's what your grievance is.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, this should be already, this is a 90s thing that we're yeah, yeah.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like how are we still thinking that's okay?
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I just it what goes through my mind is the kind of people I want to be careful how I say this.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: The type of people that I usually hear saying these comments are also the ones that if they hear of a woman being assaulted, they say, Well, how short was her skirt?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and boys we boys, and that that's what pisses me off.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how are we not past that?
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and so yeah, I just overheard a conversation today, and usually I try to have something a little light hard and funny, but didn't work out today.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Happy Friday.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: But that's what I'm struggling with.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: What's your experience?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I wonder what is the reason why this is like in your movie today?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's that would be my question.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why is this something that you particularly need to see to examine?
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because it, you know, that wasn't my day, but it's always a mirror, right?
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: Everything's a mirror.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: Why did all of a sudden with all the conversations going on, why is that what I heard?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe it's because October's a kind of a rough month for me.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe my ears are more alert.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I am looking for those triggers.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: You're looking for a trigger to feel a pain that's something inside of you that you need to feel to process to release.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of psychology in my book, but I, you know, I kind of cringe at what real psychologists will say about the things I say because I'm just learning about this stuff as I've worked on my own issues.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I'm most interested in where the concepts from psychology um overlap with concepts from allopathic and integrative medicine.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, where can we look at the overlap of those worlds?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Because we know that they overlap, but that's not a field that people are specifically working in too much.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's not right, it's not one of the main things, is like that overlap.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Usually it's like, oh, you have trauma, you're gonna go do therapy.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you have a health issue, you're gonna just go to your doctor.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: But like in integrative medicine, like there are, you know, this is how I learned, obviously.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: I had mentors teach me about the connection between emotions and chronic illness and trauma.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, there's a famous study called the ACE, uh, sorry, the adverse childhood event index, which is a quiz.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's a link between adverse events in childhood and chronic illness outcomes.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: So cancer, heart disease, addiction, suicide, depression.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that was something I focused on in Beyond Beauty, mapping my own adverse childhood events and then what the implications of those are in psychology, health, and spirituality.
• 6:45
  unknown: Right.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm very interested.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: So do you want to do you want to share a little bit about what your relationship with trauma is that led you to this career path and book?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I can there it's a lot.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lot to say.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't have one bad traumatic event to describe.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like I just I was born into a really unconventional lifestyle.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was adopted not legally and kind of lived off grid with the people who adopted me for many years who were working as drug smugglers in Miami in the 80s.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: And like never really understood the abandonment wound as the primal wound.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: So that's something like as an adult, I really have had to navigate.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: And when you try to unearth pain in you that you that is so invisible, it's so it's so separate from who what you know and what you can access logically, intellectually, it can be really hard to work on it.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it took me a very long time to even be able to have a relationship to the pain I felt as a toddler when I left when I lost my mother, my first mother.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: So that pain, which is like if I could describe it, it's the pain of a baby reaching for its mother.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: And the mother never comes back.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: She's never available.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: And the child doesn't care that the mother couldn't meet its needs, or that maybe when it was with its mother, that the mother wasn't meeting its needs or caring for it.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like that baby has no recollection of these concepts or understanding of these concepts.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: So this baby is just doing anything they can do to try and negotiate with reality to get back to its mother.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and then it and then and then it never happens, right?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so, of course, I don't remember this.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: I have no memory of this.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: And when I met my real mother, I felt nothing.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: I felt no connection.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: I felt worse than no connection.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: I felt, sorry, I felt worse than no, like there wasn't even an animation between us as two people now.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like you think, like, oh, we're gonna almost like when you meet you see an ex that you loved so passionately, and then once it finally heals, there's this scar tissue that allows you to never be able to really connect with it's almost like that.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's taken me, I didn't I never knew how to work on it.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: And then finally, as an adult, I had the right relationship with the right attachment that mimicked the conditions enough where I was able to link the two and say, like, wow, I think I can feel this now.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: And like once I was able to feel it, it stopped being repressed and it stopped being effortful to hold it.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because whether I can see it or not, I am expending effort every moment to hold it.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: So once I was able to feel it, release it, and let it go, I felt freedom in my existence that I'd never experienced.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Which of course, I would say, now that you have that freed up capacity, what do you do with it?
• 9:47
  unknown: Yeah.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's that's a way that you can be now finally in present time to do whatever it is you need to do, whether that's healing an illness, getting a business off the ground, or whatever you want to do right now.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: I read a book.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, guys, that's kind of a lie.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not much of a reader, but I've heard of a book.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: I've read a few things in the book that has been sent to me called Uh The Body Never Forgets.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it really resonated with me.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: And what you just said really resonated with me because my my parents had me at 14 years old.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: My mother literally left me on a doorstep.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: And when she came back into my life, and now she's mother of the year, right?
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like she's the most amazing mother ever, it just took her a long time.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, oh, well, she's back, so it makes up for the bad that was done.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: I did not realize I still have those abandonment issues.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: So when you were saying how, you know, you as a newborn, you know, you were longing for your mother, but you don't really remember that, but the body never forgets.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: So do you think that like that was the start of the abandonment issues and they've just carried on?
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so do you think the body never forgets?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: I guess is what I'm asking.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think that the abandon that an abandonment, your abandonment wound is a multifaceted, never-ending gift that keeps giving.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I have come, I have been exploring it from many different angles because it's not just the one I just described, because that is sort of like this unlogical needing that is so incessant because it's it's wired with survival that is attached to a person who cannot meet your needs.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: So as an adult, attracting attracting primary attachments to people who are unavailable could potentially mimic something like that.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: But unless it's dialed in an exact calibration to match the scenario, meaning a person who really loves you, who really wants to be with you, but they but there's some barrier to them being able to meet your needs.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, you know, it took me a while to like be able to have the right circumstances with the right external triggers to be able to mimic.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, there just there's another, there's another element of the abandonment wind, which would be more obvious, you know, like, oh, you canceled and you didn't tell me.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then I I got irrationally anxious about not hearing from you and like, you know, these different things.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: And when I trace it in myself, because that's kind of what I do in my process now, is I I've found many situations in childhood that I could relate to those experiences, like even when with my adopted mother, like if she left me somewhere and I didn't know where she was coming back, and I got really scared and I and I I made this pattern in me that then repeats in adulthood under that anxious register.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: So that's just like another part of the abandonment wound.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: So and then to answer your question, like, do we hold it?
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: So does the body remember, yes, it's in our unconscious, it's in our programming, it's running like a program, like a and so until you upgrade or change that program, it keeps running.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: It might be running unconsciously.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so that running that program takes effort and holding on to it and not facing it, you know.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: And there's definitely things like we could face, there's things that are harder.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: So like I'm like so wanting to face everything, but then I realize there are things I don't know how to face until the external, until the until God allows me the opportunity through something new that comes in.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, like I, you know, there's the logical things that we remember that we can for sure face.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Some people don't want to face them, but they should because not facing them is harder than facing them.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: It causes way more problems.
• 13:24
  unknown: Yeah.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I kind of learned the hard way.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm wondering if you can relate to this, but I kind of learned the hard way that there's a safe way to face these.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, before we got on the recording, I had told you a little bit about my background and my story.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, when I got back into literally on my feet, living back by myself again, moving back into my apartment, I was so pissed because so many people knew things about me that I didn't.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: There were things I didn't remember.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: I went 18 hours with lack of oxygen.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Luckily, I got a lot of memories back.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: But even when I think about my attacker, he knows if I tried to fight back or not.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: He knows how if I was screaming for help or if I just laid if it if it was the fight, flight, or fought.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I started to put myself in unhealthy sexual situations, thinking that it would take that to trigger me to remember.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: And luckily I learned very quickly that was not the right way to go about it.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's not what I need to do.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: But it did take me some time to learn that there is a healthy way to face those demons, if if that's what you would call them.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's it doesn't make it easier though, but it's it's it doesn't need to be easy.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: So that's like part of the the takeaway, too, is like to expect it to be hard and to to be grateful for the pain.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because like that pain is what catalyzes the magic on the other side.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like any physiological neuron action gated, like you drink a coffee, you feel good.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: You don't drink a coffee for a couple of days, and then you have one, you feel even more good on, you know, you get more.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, like our body is full of these like priming systems.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so, but even like in spirituality, like we're looking at practicing the spiritual laws and like that discipline that you push is like what rewards you on the other side.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: And for anyone who doesn't believe it's true, try.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna see like the harder it is to confront it, the more painful, the more scary, the more overwhelming, the more free you're gonna feel.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it it comes in a direct equivalency.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it feels it felt like I know personally for myself that I was finally regaining that control back.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I felt like everyone else was making all these decisions and controlling everything about me.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: But then when I decided that I want to face these things, I want to heal, I want to be, I want to learn the lessons.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Then I felt like I was in control again, which is what so many victims strive to have back, you know, and that was the way that I got mine back.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, that makes total sense.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: So let me ask you this.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um do in your book or or what how do you feel about like inner child stuff?
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I I think that part of my journey related to getting involved with some spiritual warfare topics.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I had a health crisis that I wrote about around panic disorder, and one of my mentors encouraged me to go to church, Christian church, to be prayed over and to understand how in their thoughts demonic energy can affect the nervous system.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: And this was like, I'm Jewish, and I was like, what?
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: You always go to get like a seance, like an exorcism or something.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, right.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: I was looking for tangible medical reasons to why the panic attacks were happening, but they were happening so regularly, and my life was so shut down at the time that I didn't really have a choice.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have a lot of options.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought it was ridiculous, but I decided to do it anyway.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so I went into Christian church.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: I promise this relates to inner child, I'll get there.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I started learning about, and they did pray over me.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: And if there was an element, because I had been very open and like new age practices and things, especially when I was very sick, I would go to anyone and talk to anyone that told me that they could help me understand why I was sick or help me heal or do any.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it was like it didn't matter if it was woo-woo or or scientifically grounded, anything I wanted to try, which is how part of how I learned so much.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, according to like the people who believe this, that I would had been too open.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe there was a component.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: I write about this in the book and I write about it in a way that's not like trying to say it's one thing or another, it's just offering ideas so that agree or not.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I'm I'm very interested in exploring concepts without necessarily having a firm saying like this is what it is or not.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: But like I learned in the Christian church about these frameworks for how to live a good life and sort of like these they call the Ten Commandments, how to treat each other right and wrong.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I began to learn about the way our brain in neuroscience dampens fear.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: So when you're under extreme fear, how do you connect with your humanity in a way that makes you feel safe?
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: And this in many ways mirrors our relationship with our inner child.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: And what's beautiful about Christianity is that it gives you a template that you can plug yourself into that's not complicated.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that template is that there's a father, son, and holy spirit.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: So if I am the child and God is the father, and I am a child of God, and God is my father, and Jesus is part of this, you know, I can now reflect that to my existence as a human, to my humanity, and I can understand the relationship of a structure where I feel safe.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that, especially when it's formed in childhood, when you're given really clear identifiers about what is what and who you are, and what is your this is what creates an identity in your mind, in your prefrontal cortex that suppresses your amygdala in times of fear.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so say what you want to say about religions, specific religions, good things and bad things about them, but you can for sure say that in neuroscience, we know that raising children with these clear structures makes them more resilient to adversity and fear.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: And when I think about my inner child, I think about being a child of God, and that gives me an anchor in my identity to feel safe.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: So do you identify as a as a Christian now?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: I do, but I also identify as Jewish.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, I Christians don't like to hear that, and the Jewish community doesn't like to hear that either.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I what I do in my heart is between me and God, and um, I certainly definitely pray to Jesus, which I never did before.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I do feel like the Christ consciousness energy was a cornerstone of my healing, um, whether it was real demons or imagined demons or what was going on.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I also see this a lot in chronic illness, and I see this in trauma as well as it relates to chronic illness, because there's a concept around what we call a fractured personality.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: And the Christian people who do this type of work around removal, they talk about the fractured self as an attachment for dark energy.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: So even when you start healing, if you don't do the work to integrate your full self, you can still be susceptible to these attachments.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: So whether you apply a scientific psychological framework or a mystical framework, you can see how these concepts all relate.
• 20:59
  unknown: Yeah.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: I like your explanation.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: I like what you were just saying because I, you know, growing up in the South, I was a part of organized religion.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: The part that all I took away from church and God and Jesus was hate.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, we don't like poor people.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: We we don't like we were taught that white was the best when let's be honest, Jesus was not white.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like judgment.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: It was just all the I we don't like gay people, we don't, you know, we don't like trans people.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: We I didn't know anything except for the moment someone says I'm a Christian, I'm like, oh God.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: But then I but I've lately and well so many times in my life, but especially here lately, and with this podcast, I've met so many lovely people that um are not that organized, religious, you know, that they have their relationship with God and and it's lovely.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for sharing that.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I wonder if now that I identify as atheist, I wonder because sometimes I battle between atheist and what is that, agnostic.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes I battle between back and forth with it.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes I think someone is going to say the right thing one day that's going to spark my interest.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that maybe I just really needed to deconstruct from all the organized, almost culty, like um religious part of this character that I just don't think truly exists.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: So in Jewitt, in the in the Kabbalah, like under Judaism, the Kabbalah would probably say that your negative experiences with Christianity were a force of contrast from the opponent energy, so the the dark energy to create a barrier for you to have a relationship with the creator, because that barrier is proportionate to the depth of the beautiful relationship that you could have with the creator if you go to the other side of like the contrast where you are.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: So like everything that is good and waiting for us lives on the other side of contrast, right?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of interesting in your experience because it sounds like you're telling me that there's a desire in you.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: There's some part of you that has a desire that tells you that there might be like a piece that you could plug that would maybe be impactful.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: And and I I wholeheartedly think that there is.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, I know um from my own experience, but uh I do think it's an important tool in healing because prayer is the fastest biohack.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because it could put you into an alignment with yourself and the creator or God or the field, depending on which way how you call it.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that is how you align with the things you need to heal that you may not even know.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so in the Kabbalah, they say when you have a challenge, you don't know how to solve it.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's a real challenge.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: When you align yourself and you understand that the challenge is for your highest good, that you're ready to rise to it, that you embrace it, and that you just no resistance, then you call down a piece of your soul and that your whole life you're collecting pieces of your soul to be whole, your full whole soul.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so when that piece of your soul comes down, then you figure out how to solve the challenge.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then probably that challenge won't really return.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: You'll find have some other challenge that will come that for another different soul.
• 24:38
  unknown: Yeah.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: I guess where I battle with it is once I broke away from the church, from the organized religion and accepted who I was and loved people for who they are, everything in my life blossomed.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Everything in my life I started thriving in.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: I have all kinds of lovely friends.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: I, you know, the relationship I have with my family, but it took me getting away from the organized religion.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that kind of where I'm at is that I just really needed to deconstruct from that organized religion.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then once and then at some point that the real being will introduce themselves to me.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because, like you were saying, there's this black cloud, this barrier, I guess, keeping me from seeing the real, but uh that barrier was the organized religion itself.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I would remember hearing these things in church, you know.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: I remember how that was the form it took in your life.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: That was the form.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: Excuse me.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's okay.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it sounds like you're still in the weeds of it.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: So you're looking at it too narrowly, you're allowing it to be too tangible.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: And when you apply a literal lens, you're always going to get a literal output.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: So the idea is that you step away, you step back, and you understand you see it in as an energetic form, and then you you shift inside your perspective on it, and then you like love it and you act you're grateful to it because you're not in the details of it anymore.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's you know, it's so hard to do that when you say, like, this person did like this horrible thing, this person like hurt like hurt me in this way.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're like thinking about that one particular instance, you're never gonna be able to like get outside of it.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: So you're you're getting outside of it so that you can see it as something that ultimately led to you just said that when you got away from it, your whole life blossomed.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: So from my perspective, it sounds like it was part of the process of allowing your life to blossom.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: You can't separate that.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Your life wouldn't have blossomed if you hadn't had something to get away from to see the contrast of needing your life to blossom.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, like where you you should have all of the gratitude.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: No, you shouldn't.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: I should.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: If I tell you it doesn't work, gratitude is a muscle.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: It has to come from you, it has to be your own independent thought.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: You have to come up with that on your own.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: That's how it works.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: Then you strengthen it.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm just trying to say, like, if I were to analyze this for the sake of the exercise, right?
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I, of course, same for me.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: I apply this with all the you know, negative experience experiences I've had, and yeah.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I no, I I love these conversations because how else are we gonna learn, right?
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: And and I'm not offended by anything.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: I you know, I uh this is definitely a safe place.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, I I I want to be clear, even just for myself or to the listener, that I think yes, when when I was deconstructing from it, moving past it, letting go of it, I did stop-ish um blaming the people within the church.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: And it was the the teachings that just trinkle are trink being trinkled down from you know society and and uh and this you know religion that I think it was a lot of it taken out of context and preached the incorrect way.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because even when I think back on the church, I don't I remember like having questions about the Bible or God, and it was always God knows and God has a will.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that so you don't have an answer, and you just can't tell me that you don't have an answer.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: The answer is it's whatever God wants, and we don't know what he wants, you know.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's just not sticking with me, you know.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um the answer to that question, if you want my opinion, yes, I can answer from either religion, but uncertainty is part of the equation of how we relate to the unseen forces.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: So that goes back to what you described as like the inner child work.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's the self-anchor.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: You have to believe with certainty that there is that there are forces greater than you, whether it's a father or the creator of all, or the quantum field, or the field, or whatever you believe that has your back because of an unassailable right that you have because you're born and you're alive and you're an organism and you don't have to do anything, that you're perfect, and what and all you have to do is tap into it and like feel this exchange between you and that with gratitude.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then the forces that shape the trajectory are in your favor.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so building that muscle of certainty is the surrender part.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: So we show up and we do everything in our power with the gifts we have, with whatever we were given, whatever we can do.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then the the other half is we surrender, and that's like the magic of how we know things are gonna be okay, and that's how you go to bed at night feeling like good, and that's how you develop the self-esteem to love yourself more.
• 29:48
  unknown: Yeah.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I just went through especially.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me the next one.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: I I think that I just went through this phase or whatever it was, I don't know, where I just felt so abandoned.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: I felt abandoned by my mother.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: I felt abandoned by just so many things in life.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I went to church every time the door was open.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: I lit the candles, I sang in the choir, I did all the things.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: I tried to deny who I was.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: I lived by the Ten Commandments the best I could, right?
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like I prayed every night, and I kept getting abandoned by God.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like in my mind, I was like, Where were you when the dude was raping me?
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: Where were you when my mother abandoned me?
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: Where were you when I was left on a doorstep?
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I I'm told that you watch me.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm told that you know all these things are gonna happen before it happened.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: Why'd you pick me to for it to happen too?
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not a bad person.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: I don't do things bad, I don't rape children.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: I make sure people are fed, you know, like please.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: If the force of the opponent is an ever-present reality in our world, and you know these bad things are gonna continue to happen to other people because it's the nature of humanity that these things happen, right?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: Who is there that can be there for those people before they have figured out the reason why it happened to them?
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: So if you stay in a state of victimhood over why it happened, and then you blame the force of the creator, which is a force existing in contrast, then you never get the opportunity, which you've already done this because you're doing this work.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: So we're already a couple of steps ahead and you know that.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: How would you have gotten there if it wasn't for these circumstances that were built that your soul chose, just like my soul chose, a very hard path with lots of things that were unfair that seemed very unfair.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: Why would I child of God?
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because here we are, and we're and now we get to be a carrier for the others that that are that don't know that are still struggling and they're still in pain.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: And like we get to guide them and be like that, that example.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so when we say that God gives you what you can handle, it's true because you can, you did overcome these things, and maybe your soul path required something so horrible in order to create the contrast needed for you to do the work on the other side of it.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why you endured exactly what you endured and why you will endure whatever new more things you may, I don't know.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um as long as we're alive, there's gonna be challenges.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: And the opponent always meets you at the level that you are, meaning you never outgrow the opponent and say, Oh, I get it now, this isn't gonna touch me.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: No, it has to be able to touch you in order for you to rise.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: And this is gonna keep happening as long as you're alive.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like the intensity of these negative experiences is moot, like it doesn't even register in the argument.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, but if you were still there, which I don't even believe you that you are, I don't think you're still a victim, but if you were still feeling like a victim, I would try to help you understand and examine what emotions in you about feeling that way are giving a payoff to you.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: Where are you getting a payoff?
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a hard, kind of uncomfortable thing.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: But like, but like sometimes we just need to stay with stuff longer.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was sick for 12 years, I was in chronic illness for 12 years.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: And when I look back and I'm like, why did I have to be sick for so long?
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, that's how long it took me to be ready to stop living the whatever the payoff was that I was getting, that was how long it took me.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: But it was also an incubation period to propel me into the opposite, yeah, the equivalency.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I could compare that to your trauma, and I can compare that to anyone's trauma, no matter what it is.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, I did go through a a time where I was blaming God.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then one day I was just like, you know what?
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think he was there because he doesn't exist.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when I started looking into maybe I'm an atheist.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I stopped blaming and I started just accepting.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: And what what one of the things that really would get under my skin is they would say, Oh, thank thank God you walked again.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's because of God that you walk again, it's because of God that you kept breathing and fighting.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: Why does he get the credit?
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like he wasn't there, he didn't save me, he didn't protect me.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: Why does he get the credit?
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because I did it, I did the work.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, but if he created you in this exact way with the exact skill set to match to overcome, then there is a credit.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because remember, we talked earlier about your innate gifts and your ability to rise to every single day.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's a direct result of your innate capacity and abilities.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then of course, like as you grow, but your capacity to grow is also like a rate rate limited on your existence.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: So if there's someone who created us the way we are, then they have to get credit for the pain that you got and for your ability to overcome it.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: Those come together.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: And like when we think about grit psychologically, what makes people gritty or not, we don't really know.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it seems like some people take a path of higher pain because their purpose is higher.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: And if that's not a constitution thing that you can attribute to the creator, then what is?
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because some people break, some people break and they die.
• 35:11
  unknown: Yeah.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, then so okay, so let me ask you.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: I would be fine giving credit where credit is due, right?
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like if I went to college and had this professor that just really spent some time with me and and taught me and trained me to where I became an expert, I could absolutely see myself giving recognition to to he or she.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: But to give all the credit to he or she, I don't love.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: But it was like everything had to be given to God.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just like, but I I also did the work because maybe because that this creator provided me with the skills, provided me with the strength, provided me with the things to utilize myself to keep going.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: So just like speaking as like a non-psychologist, I'm gonna give you my feedback, but I don't know if I'm a person to like really unpack this.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: I've done my best on the religious topics.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, we're just we're just friends talking right now.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: I will just say my observation with people and accomplishment, okay.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like when you have when you're a survivor and you have a lot of trauma, you start to learn that accomplishing is like a high and you want to keep validating yourself.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it can be, it can be a reason why people with a lot of trauma become high achievers, but like high achievers will be the first ones to tell you that at the end of the day, they don't, it doesn't really satisfy you.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like you get that next big accomplishment and it doesn't really fill you in.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: You need to look for the next one or the next one.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: So there's something to consider on that because like as you're building your self-worth and taking credit for the things, which I'm not arguing that you shouldn't, but I think it can be really valuable in nurturing a person who you maybe like people didn't believe in and you want to prove yourself, and that's it's a it's an evolutionary mechanism to survive.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: But like at what time, when does it become a function of the ego that holds you back?
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: When does it need to be balanced with humility and being able to have gratitude for the things outside of your control?
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: When do we think about fairness in terms of like what's really fair or not fair about like being born in the privileged society of the world where you know most of the world just doesn't even have food and we have food, you know, we so it's like fairness versus not, and those people that can't eat.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: This is why you can't compare trauma, right?
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's like people could be living in the third world and get raped.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: What then what do you tell them?
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: So, so not trying to think about it like in this 3D term.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say yes, have healthy self-esteem, pat yourself on the back, but balance it with humility and also be aware of the pitfalls of accomplishment as far as being another way to fill a hole that can never be filled by anything external.
• 37:59
  unknown: Yeah.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, you're 100% correct.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I would never give myself the full credit.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it was never like I did all this on my own.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: I had a lovely support team.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh my brother would hold me up because I wanted to pee staying up because I was 34 years old.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: I peace staying up for 20 years, or probably well, probably more than 20 years.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I just wanted to freaking be able to stand up to pee again.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: And my brother had to hold me, and I peed all down his leg and everywhere but the toilet.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: And he toughed right, like I know that I didn't do it alone.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: I just felt like so many Christians in my community was saying it's all because of God.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: And and the word all just bothered me.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, well, even if that's what you believe, even if you believe in a God, why does it all have to be?
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, didn't I do something?
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: Didn't I just maybe a little bit?
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm not trying to say that I deserve it all or that I or that I did everything, but I kind of want my mom to have some credit too.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of want my dad and my brother, you know, my little nephews who held my hand to help me walk the first time to the car.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of want them to have a little bit of credit too.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: I I feel like your it's the interpretation is very literal and it's meant to be a more theoretical interpretation.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: If God is everything, then God is also credit to your mother, you, your brother, everyone.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's the concept.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it's about understanding that we're all connected, that we're all one, that we're all part of God.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's not about delivering credit to God in the human sense that you would deliver credit in a classroom.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like that.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's not that literal.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: So if the people telling you this were saying it's literal, that's just ignorance.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I think that's kind of what I've been trying to probably say this whole time that got me out of the religion, right?
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: Is because that's your journey, that's your human experience to take you where you are.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, so, anyways, yeah, but no, I love these conversations.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: This has given me a lot to think about, and luckily it's recorded, so I'll get to hear it over and over again.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I hope that you were comfortable with the conversation.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, because I luckily I'm one of those people that like I'm so open-minded about things.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: And and one of the first things I said to you is that I hope that there's that part of me that hopes that someone's gonna say something one day and I'm like, uh bulb.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: Now I get it.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: Now I want to revisit, you know.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: If that is true and that happened, that's for me, like that gives me light, like that gives me points.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know if it happened, but that's why I do stuff like this because I'm trying to look, it doesn't even matter if a light bulb moment happens, if we talk or you hear me talk, or I hear you, it can open things in us that we can't even see.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why it's so important to connect and not to lose our ability to, but you can connect with someone by reading their work, by watching a video.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and I just want to give credit to you too, because I know that when you're so passionate about something, people can easily get defensive.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: They can easily be like, okay, you're an atheist, you're ignorant, I don't like you.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: In the podcast, don't air it.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: And you did not do that.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: You did not make me feel uncomfortable where I felt like I couldn't share, you know, my my stuff with it.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope that I paid the same respect to you.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I love these conversations.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's totally great.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I'm here for.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of the book is about these topics, not the same like critical things that you brought up.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I've never answered these questions before.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just answering them based on what I think, based on my perspective and my opinion based on what you're telling me.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope I hope it's useful to other people, but I'm in no way like the person to really answer those questions other than to speak from my own path.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, 100%.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: You're yes, you're a doctor.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: You're not here to diagnose me.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: We're having a conversation and talk about our journeys, period.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: And if a little bit of educated background comes into play, fine.
• 41:45
  unknown: Okay.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: So what how long has your book been out?
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's still in pre-sale.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it'll be in March, I believe.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: We had to push it a little.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: I talked about some things that needed legal review.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: So it'll it'll be out in it was supposed to be out in November, it'll be out in March, but it's available now to presale.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: So you can go in Barnes and Noble or Amazon.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: If you go to beyondbeautybook.com, that's on my website, and it will direct you to Barnes and Noble Amazon, I think Target.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: So you can buy it.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, great.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm definitely gonna do that, especially after this conversation.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm and then I'm gonna have to have you back.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, when the book comes out, that would be nice.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when it's like physically available, but pre-sale has really helped me.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I would really appreciate it having you guys at presale.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you can also get a free bottle of silicone support formula, which is a vitamin I made for women with breast implants, um, which was a lot of my work before.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: And uh yeah, so beyond beautybook.com.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, after you read it, there's a lot of topics I think that you'll want to get more, you know, the religious topics are great.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: And we could do like write full episodes on religion.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: And when you read more about the spiritual warfare I encountered, I'm really curious your opinion and what you think about it.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I would love, I would love that.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so you were talking about this formula, the solution that you created for women with breastplants.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: Can you tell me a little bit about that?
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: So part of like my whole journey was I was working in nightlife and fashion and I got breast implants.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then I got sick after nine months of having breast implants, but no one knew why I was sick.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it came under the umbrella of mystery illness and it ended up shaping my journey into medical school.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I went to chiropractic school thinking I had something wrong with my muscles and joints, but then quickly learning that I had a metabolic root cause of pain.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then what does that mean?
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do we get pain in our body that's not caused by like our joint or muscle, which is a very common cause for many?
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: How did these pain syndromes come?
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so eventually I learned that in my case it was related to breast implants, and then I learned that it was related to a myriad of like other toxic exposures I had.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I ended up chelating mercury for about five years, mercury and lead.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then I found out I had Lyme disease.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I spent time working on Lyme.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: And then I found out I have something called complex inflammatory response syndrome, which is a genetic inflammatory response to biotoxin load.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: So complicated Lyme.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then I eventually just dropped all of it and became healthy by willing myself.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: But it's a lot of the things that we've talked about today already.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: We talked about letting go of the things we're holding and that daunting big process.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: And we talked about removing the payoff to staying sick.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: We talked about shifting identity into anchors that connect us with humanity on present time.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: And we talked about the power of choosing to be alive and to choose life and what that really means every day.