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What I've Learnt - Jess King · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Jess King is a self-described curve model and uses her platform to share body positivity.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: She's funny, inspiring, and proud of her curves, wearing them with honour and humour, and is thankfully part of a new generation of women and girls for being real and authentic, owning their natural beauty and showing it.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Jess has been open about having suffered eating disorders in the past and having crippling anxiety.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: But she uses Instagram and social media as a power tool to share both modelling photos, funny videos, and moving content.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Her focus is self-acceptance, body positivity, and not taking herself too seriously.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: She's changing the dialogue around body expectation.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: And with eating disorders endemic, Jess is part of this wave of women promoting a healthy lens of self-love and authenticity and is a voice that needs to be heard.
• 0:55
  unknown: Let's get together.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: So we're thrilled to have Jess onto the What I've Learned podcast.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: What a beautiful intro.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think I actually love what you do and I love what you represent.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we need a lot more of it.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me a little bit about, you know, how your journey started, a little bit about your career as a curve model, which I absolutely love.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: As someone reasonably curvy myself, um, I come from a generation where this whole obsession with body image really seems to have got quite distorted over time.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm really interested because you're from a slightly different generation.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me how you got involved.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I started modeling when I was about 14 or 15.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: At that point in time, I was probably about a small size 10, but I was always very curvy, you know, like I woke up one night with boobs, and that was kind of it for me.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um I get it, I hear you.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Just never left.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: I did a bit of modeling then, but I just kept getting the same kind of feedback that I was too curvy and that if I wanted to take it seriously, I would need to lose weight.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, my parents were really nervous about getting me involved in an industry that had such a hyper focus on my weight, especially as I was so young and I was still kind of growing into myself.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: So we kind of made the decision as a family that, you know, I wouldn't really pursue it as hard as I was.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I've always been really into performing.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I went to uni and I studied performing arts.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: One day someone was like, Oh, have you ever thought about being a plus size model?
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Oh, I was kind of like, I must admit, I was a little bit taken aback and almost a little bit offended because in my head I had this concept that plus size was, you know, maybe a size 20 or beyond.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: And not that there's anything wrong with that, but because I had such crippling of body dysmorphia, I was really kind of triggered that somebody saw me as a size 12 as plus size.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, I looked into it more and I ended up entering a competition as part of Melbourne Spring Fashion Week, and I ended up winning, and that's how I met my now agent, Chelsea Bonner of Bella.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: I love that story.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: So you actually just stood into the limelight, which is pretty scary sometimes when you come, when you're dealing with these issues, and made a choice to actually own it.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: And clearly you got the support you needed, which is really important.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: You might have been also at the cusp of that time when people were starting to rethink because clearly Bella and that whole notion of representing different sizes of women, you really rode that wave, didn't you?
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it and certainly something that hopefully that wave's getting bigger.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I was kind of like in the early days of when it was like just kind of, you know, starting.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: And um, even when I started, you know, Chelsea said to me, Oh, look, you're a size 12.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: There's probably not going to be that much work for you.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: And within a year, it totally changed.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: I ended up moving to London and I worked there and across Europe.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's just been huge ever since.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it's ever evolving.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: We're still quite behind in terms of diversity and inclusion when you look at fashion overseas, but we're getting there.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, what sort of brands are you finding embraced you earliest?
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like who, who really, if you like, um, you know, you talk about, you know, it started slowly, but then it sort of took off.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: Who were some of the brands that really sort of embraced it early from your perspective and brought you on board?
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was definitely the um major department stores, you know, your Maya, your David Jones, Target, Big W, they were always really keen to have different body types and more diversity in their catalogues.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's only really been, I would say, like the last year or so that you've seen kind of like the high street brands come on board and do a few things.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like I saw Beck and Bridge are doing something with a curved model the other day.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, that's just unheard of.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like I never would have thought that that would happen.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it is definitely a slow uptake, but I hope that it will continue.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think it's super important because I think that as you mentioned, I mean, you can talk to me sort of a little bit about those early days.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned that you did have eating disorders or body dysmorphia.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: There was a sense of, you know, really a distortion of perception about how you looked.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Can you talk to me a little bit about that and how you waded your way through what is often a very, very powerful and challenging perspective on yourself?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was a really difficult time.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I have memories of going on my first diet at around the age of eight years old.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I was always hyper aware of my body and the place it took up in society and, you know, the space I took up and comparing myself to other girls.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I was a lot taller, therefore, you know, bigger.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I just didn't have any role models that would tell me or would show me that that's okay and that that's normal.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: So those sorts of feelings spurred on um a really long period of disordered eating, negative body image.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just, yeah, it was a really difficult time.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think even when I started getting involved in the plus size industry, I was still not really in the best way.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: But I kind of credit the industry in a way in my healing, which is kind of ironic.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't really love this so much about myself because I always think you should kind of find that self-love within you and you shouldn't just rely on other people to tell you that you're good enough.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: But it was the fact that, you know, I was being booked and I was being celebrated for being the size that I was that made me be like, oh, maybe I am okay.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like maybe I am beautiful and good enough the way I am.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess that's that brings me to who I am today.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that's a good point.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think there's anything from what I understand, just because you get positive affirmation from outside doesn't mean you can't find that within.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what you're saying is that that helped you access that part of yourself and go, you know what, I'm okay.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's all right.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that you should, you know, in a sense, be self-critical about that, because to me, that is what you can't ignore that there's an external pressure and presence.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: And the more that we affirm women of all sizes and all shapes, the better for all of us.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it's interesting that the industry became a tool to help you do that.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I I like that because to be honest, unless they do, the transition is quite challenging, isn't it?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, you don't really hear many stories of girls saying that, you know, being a model and being involved in the fashion industry actually actually helped me um overcome my demons.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel lucky that I've had a good experience.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: And how long would that go on for?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: You talked about the size of eight, you know, when you were age eight, sorry, that you that's when it all first started, the sense of, you know, eating carefully and dieting.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: How long do you think that that dysmorphia went on for?
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: And is it something at the time that people spoke about?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Or were you sort of hiding it, or were your parents aware?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: Or I was probably um, you know, in the thick of it, I would say, um, just after I finished high school and into uni, so my early 20s, I was engaging in like really, really unhealthy behaviors, laxatives, diet pills, you know, this like vicious binge purge cycle, restriction.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: It just all the things I could think of to try and be as small as I could.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I I ended up getting down to um what was considered an unhealthy weight for me, but I just I still never felt good enough.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: I did go and see um a counsellor at uni, but it still took me many years to kind of move through it and overcome that.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, there is definitely an aspect where you're very secretive and you do hide it from friends and family as much as you can.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so, where do you think the turning point was, other than the positive affirmation you started to get once you got that from the aspects of the modeling industry?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Was there actually a turning point internally, or was it a doctor, or how?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, for a lot of girls out there who are experiencing that sort of um obsessive thinking and eating, I suppose it becomes part of the dialogue every day for women that I know and young girls.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: What did what were some of the tools that you accessed?
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because it really is comforting to know that you can turn a corner and find another way or another pathway.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: I can't say that there was one particular catalyst.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, even to this day, I still have moments where I have to kind of push pull myself out of those thought cycles.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, just things like it sounds so simple, but one counselor gave me the vice of like, you know, if you're in that kind of binge purge cycle, you just have to like let it happen, take a breath and separate yourself from the chance to restrict autopurge, you know, finding hobbies, finding things that I was interested in, doing things that had no association to my body.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: My dad also got quite sick during the tail end of that period.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: So that was kind of like a a bit of a wake-up call for me.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: He had like quite sudden um cancer.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: So that was really overwhelming.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he's he's great now, but um Oh well, that's really good to hear.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that what you're saying is that you became focused on him and and what he needed, and it made you realize how how fragile life can be.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Is that is that what you mean?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't think I really like had that thought process at the time, but I think subconsciously I was just like so distracted that, you know, I didn't have time to really put myself under those feelings of control.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of it for me was about control.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, the times when I felt my life was the most stressful was when I would control my eating and control my exercise.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just how I felt like I could, you know, keep my life on track.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a pretty common experience from what I've observed.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I suppose it's that fine line between eating healthy, exercising, all of which is valid and important for everyone, but it gets sometimes that lens gets applied and used as a justification for some of the behaviors that you refer to as toxic and destructive.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's where hopefully this dialogue and this people like yourself who are starting to talk about it and say, don't confuse healthy eating and extreme behaviors, because that's I think that's where we all get a bit stuck.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I felt quite overwhelmed and a little bit nervous with the rise of clean eating.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not sure if you feel the same, but you know, not that there's anything wrong with it, but this obsession with, you know, making everything sugar-free or dairy-free or gluten-free or vegan.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: We've become scared of, you know, sugar and flour.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: Very scared of it.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's true.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's an obsession.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: And like, I mean, it's funny in a way, but it's actually causing, you know, a lot of young people to develop assorted eating and um, you know, negative food patterns because of this obsession with making everything clean.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, I'm I'm so open to trying new foods and everything, but I just think we just can't let it rule us at the end of the day.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think you make a very, very important point because there, you know, I see it everywhere.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm the first to say, you know, eat healthy, exercise, eat clean, invert a commas.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that you make a very important point because what's actually happened is it's it's crossed from nutrition and well-being into obsession and disorder.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: And the two have just gotten really mixed up and it's really hard to, and also the movement is so powerful that any attempt to challenge it, discuss it, put it on the table in the way that you have or that you and I are discussing, is seen as a little bit shameful.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's there is a shaming of people that try and raise some of these issues as if listen, we know that, you know, you're like a Tim Tim, like just come clean, you know.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Sort of like Yeah.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we also forget that it's it's a privilege to eat healthy.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people don't actually have access to this sort of nutrition and knowing how to create these kind of vegan and healthy and clean meals.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: So um I think we need to keep that in mind as well.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's not always easy for everyone.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: I totally agree with you.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I think at the end of the day, you are focused on being a balanced person, but also a balanced representative of healthy eating without it becoming obsessive.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: And therefore that's a really great part of the next phase, hopefully, what we're going to see in the next few years.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: I can see it changing.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me, so you've talked before, you know, during COVID, you said you've actually been working and you've been okay and you're actually managing.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: What sort of work are you managing to do and how are you staying afloat emotionally?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I suppose, as we talked, you actually haven't suffered too badly.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me a little bit about what you've been doing.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so work-wise, I'm quite lucky.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm able to get a permit to work with certain clients.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: So every now and then I'll be able to go into the studio and shoot with them, which is so nice.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I live by myself, so it's been really good to get out of the apartment and um see some of my work friends.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: But in terms of when I'm not modeling on set, I do a lot of um content creation for brands.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really, really thriving at the moment.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll shoot stuff at home or um, you know, when the restrictions allow.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: I have a photographer, Emily, who comes and shoots a lot of my content for me.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really nice because I'm still being creative.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm also working on my own little brand, very early days.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I've been dealing with a manufacturer and yeah, it's just nice to have things happening, and I feel very privileged in that way.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: And also, you've tapped into your creative roots or and come to see that there this is maybe, as you said, you you actually like quite a lot of alone time.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you mentioned, and you like to sort of have that quiet space, and that is really what they're saying, to be honest, you can't create unless you do have that.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just one of those people who kind of recharges on their own, and I always kind of need that.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not super extroverted and I'm not great with constant socializing.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, in a way, um I've kind of thrived it during this time because um, you know, I'm not having to talk to people every second, but yeah, I mean I miss my friends and I do I can't wait till we can all catch up in a big bunch of us together.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, just coming back to what we're talking about before, how do you believe the Australian curve model industry needs to improve?
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: And where do you think it's heading?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: And what are some of the major brands that you see driving that change?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Who um I think a lot of these brands need to extend their sizes.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: We're seeing a lot of the high street brands only kind of going up to a 14 or really, really small 16.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: And if you look at the statistics, the average Australian woman is a size 14 to 16.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: So they're not actually being catered for.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: And these women have money to spend and they want to feel included and beautiful and fashionable.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I just find it really surprising that brands aren't really tapping into that.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I'd love to see.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I do love that inclusion is happening, but sometimes I wonder and I worry that it's not for the right reasons.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the brands see it as a chance to make a quick buck and get attention and you know, good PR for the brand and you know, eyes on screens and on websites, but I just hope that they're doing it because they truly believe in diversity.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Are you saying that yeah, there's an element of tokenism that there's totally yeah, there's a sort of a tokenistic maybe three of their items will be available in a plus size inverted commas because although I don't think they're using that term now, are they?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: Plus size.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's more of because it's seen as a um a reference to being plus.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if they're so the terminology I know is also something that that's being worked on.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean the terminology's kind of changed over the years.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: When I first started, you know, we were called plus size models.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of evolved a little bit now to curve models.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, I'm not offended.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't mind what people kind of refer to me as.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's basically just a term that makes it easier for the brand to book us so that you know when they're contacting the agent, they they say, you know, I want a plus size model.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like they know to show girls a size 12 and up.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I totally understand the association.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: And as I said earlier, when I was first called for plus size, I was a bit confused and I didn't really understand it.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think the industry is is is on track?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think it's changing?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: And who do you think is driving the change?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is there a brand that you're working with or a few brands that that come to mind that you see as being trailblazers in this context?
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: We are definitely behind.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: If you look at you know the recent New York Fashion Week, pretty much every major fashion brand had a plus size model walking, and you just don't see that here.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like I remember going to a casting earlier in the year and I got the brief and it said something like high fashion models size six to eight, evening wear models size six to twelve.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just like, So what you're saying?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: Anyone over a size eight cannot be high fashion?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because I dare you to go and look at, you know, all the major brands, you know, Machino, Joshua Cubana, Josh Cabana, I mean, how beautiful! Yeah, they're all stunning.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're all using plus size models and you know, women who are size 16.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I just haven't seen, I just I honestly, I mean, prove me wrong, anyone if they want to let you know afterwards, but I don't think I've seen any size 16 Australian models in a major fashion show here on home soil.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so that comes back to the designers and it comes back to the brands stepping up, and hopefully they will see the lead from Europe and the US, where, as you say, it's become the normal process to include and in fact, not just include, but to just make it part of the story.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, not just like a one-off, you know, size 14 model.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think also, as you mentioned, the stats are quite evident that, you know, most of most women are 12 plus, and so what?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it is a really important dialogue.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think so?
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Who do you think is best to accelerate that transition?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Who do you see as driving it or who would you like to see driving it?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's really hard.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there are some brands who are doing great things.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm working a lot with commonry at the moment.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure if you're familiar with them, but they are a beautiful store creating amazing everyday pieces in a size 10 to 22.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'd compare them to sort of like a country road vibe.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yep.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they're quoting their quality is fantastic, their campaigns are beautiful, it's luxury at not a massive price because you often see, you know, when there's clothes made in these bigger sizes, the brands think they can charge, you know, hundreds and hundreds of dollars for it.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's just not feasible.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Can you just repeat your brand?
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Repeat.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Commonry.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that's C-O-L-M.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: How do you spell that?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: O-N-R-Y.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, good.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: No, just for our listeners, so that if they wanted to look it up, they know.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if you're in Melbourne, there's a store in Armadale, if you want to check it out.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's good.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, uh, I just think we need to work on extending size ranges, diversity, not just in terms of size, like there's many ways that brands can be inclusive.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, age is another thing.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're not seeing, I mean, you are a little bit now, but they still need to include more models, you know, over the age of 35, because it's like so.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's so funny you say that because um I've been doing quite a lot of alliances on my Instagram with some of you know the Australian brands, and I am well over 35, I can tell you right now.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I have loved it, and it has really been great for me, for my listeners, for my followers, and you know what?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: It it is a very important, also an important discussion.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's not dissimilar, it's sort of like you don't become invisible and cease to exist because of your size or your age.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: It is really quite disturbing to think that that's the case because you eliminate a hell of a lot of people.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that you're absolutely right in in bringing that into the story because it is certainly something that I think also obviously, as people get older, what they want to look like and how they dress is going to change as well.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: So that taps into those same issues.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, in terms of what you see up ahead, what's sort of your ideal, I suppose, your dream of how you see the the next phase of the journey for you and I suppose for others in the curve model space?
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to see every brand um model, every garment on at least two different sizes.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know about you, but I'm so much more likely to buy an outfit if I see it on a body similar to mine.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because I want to know how it hangs, how it's going to fit my boobs, my hips.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, let's face it, like clothing looks so different on a size eight than a size 14 and beyond.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it's the same goes for also a young and old.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, or you know, I hate the word old, mature.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's the same thing.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: You you and I think that's a really, really good suggestion and something that hopefully will be embraced.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think also that in the next, I suppose, few years and hopefully as soon as we open up, that the major brands are listening?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Or do you think they're a bit time-deaf?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think they're listening not fast enough.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: I just think they're nervous, and I'm not sure why, because it's a massive, untapped market and they have the potential to make a lot of money.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't really know what's holding them back.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it's budgets or if, you know, I hate to say it, but some of these brands are still in a very outdated way of thinking, and they think that, you know, anything over a size 12 is not cool.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's like who made that up.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: And not only that, if you actually look back at the 50s, for example, and even the 60s to some degree, but let's look at the 50s, you know, Sophia Lorenz, the Retros, the Marilyn Monroe's, there was a complete um homage.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: And even if you go back to the Renaissance, there was a complete reverence for curves.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just so strange how we've been driven on this very, and nobody's saying there's anything wrong also with being slim and skinny naturally.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's also beautiful.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Not at all.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that's important to acknowledge.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I think what we're referring to is the aberration, the side, the side of side of things that get really disturbed and can really affect our health and well-being.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where you're coming from, and that's what your platform's about.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll be very excited to see what your new brand is and when it when it is coming out, and really, I suppose, what the offering is.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: And hopefully there'll be many more in that vein.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know the detail yet.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: I hope so.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: I hope so.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: COVID's made things a little bit difficult.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: I did have plans to launch early next year, but I don't think that's going to happen now.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: So it's still a little while off.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: But um, yeah, I'm funding it all myself, which is very nerve-wracking.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm learning and I think that's the main thing.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think it's great that you're learning, and so are we all.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: And we've learnt a lot listening to you today.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I really thank you for your time, Jess, for coming onto the What I've Learned Podcast.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I look forward to seeing what you do next.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: No worries at all.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: Absolute pleasure.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's a little time.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for listening.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: The What I've Learned podcast will now be coming to you weekly with new episodes released every Tuesday.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm blessed to have so many wonderful guests coming on the show.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: So check out my What I've Learned Instagram for updates.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, stay tuned, kind, and curious.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: Love Death.