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Powering the Business of Government: Nancy Patel on Connecting Cost, Contracts, and AI · The Leading Edge

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_02: So, welcome back to the Leading Edge, a series offering in-depth insights into the key challenges, innovations, and evolving dynamics of the contract and commerce landscape.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm your host, Nikki Mackay, Chief Development Officer of the Commerce and Contract Management Institute.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: Now I'm coming to you live in Florida at NCMA's World Congress from a very busy expo floor.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: Today's conversation sits right at the intersection of technology and the business of government.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: Our guest has spent more than two decades supporting the US government across software, systems engineering, and public sector leadership, and now leads the product lines shaping how federal contracts get built, priced, and managed.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: I'm joined by Nancy Patel, Vice President of Go to Market at Unison, where she leads the marketing, sales and account management and pre-sales architecture teams.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: With a career spanning software, engineering, cybersecurity, and public sector leadership, including time in Lockheed Martin, Nancy brings a genuinely rare fluency in both the technical and business sides of federal contracting.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: Nancy, welcome.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks so much for having me.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for joining us today.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: Let's dive right into the questions because you've got such a deep background of knowledge, and I want to just explore that a little.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: You spent your career moving between deeply technical roles, computer science, systems engineering, cyber security, and business leadership in the public sector.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: So tell us how has that combination shaped the way you think about the problems technology should actually be solving in federal contracting?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I started forever ago as a computer scientist.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I was a coder.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so I started my world with technology.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like here's the cool tech, what can we do with it?
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think over time, with experience, I've absolutely learned that you can't start with the tech.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: You have to start with the problem.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Usually when you throw tech at something first, it doesn't get you the outcome you wanted.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Or it can take a really long time and you're sort of cycling a lot.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: If you start with the problem or the pain point first, really figure out what it is you're trying to do, what outcome you're trying to achieve.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: It tends to then make the application of the technology better.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: So that's one big thing.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then another thing I've learned is that, you know, two decades, that's insane.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of technology has come in the past 20 or so years, the past five years.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I think of technology as a tool belt.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, the hammer doesn't work for everything, AI doesn't work for everything, SAS doesn't work for everything.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's really about choosing the right tool for the problem.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I love that.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: I love thinking thinking of it that way.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: Building on that, let's dig into your time at Unison because you previously oversaw both contract lifecycle management and cost engineering, right?
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: So those are often treated as separate disciplines, aren't they?
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um what do organizations miss when they don't connect the two and what changes when they do?
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think um sometimes we wish that you could have one tool that does everything.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, or uh at the same time, you maybe function focus on one function or one piece of the job versus thinking holistically about what you're trying to do end to end.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think when you focus just on one piece, you're missing an opportunity to be more efficient and probably get more accurate as well.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so what we think about is how can we cross functions and integrate tools together and share how not only the tools but the people can work more closely.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, cost estimation for Unison is about parametric cost modeling, so a little different than the bottom-up.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's really neat from a contract management perspective because it gives you a different view of pricing, right?
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, another data point, and that we've seen that empowers contracts teams um to have that additional data sitting alongside the contract management system.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it makes it faster and easier.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we couldn't have a conversation today if we didn't touch on AI, and I really want your take on it.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Unison talks about being AI infused to simplify complex data regulations and workflows.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: So, Nancy, where do you see AI genuinely reducing risk and burden for contracting profess contracts professionals today versus where the hype still outpaces that what the technology can reliably do?
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think of AI being really good at uh clear rules, um, and so it knows what to do, repeatable tasks, high volume.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we joke internally, what is that manual thing you do regularly over and over that you hate?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where you should start with AI.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like find that annoying problem and then figure out how to apply AI.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, everyone's seen things like um comparing a proposal to a compliance matrix or building a requirements document, or even we're getting to a point where you can draft your acquisition package with AI.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's gotten really good at that and inferring from data, um, like how to build those things well from a draft perspective.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: But we at Unison and I really believe there's always gonna be a human in the loop in the contract world.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's too complex, the stakes are too high.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it takes a lot of judgment, a lot of human judgment that you can't replicate in AI.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I think, you know, we wanna, as a technologist, um, I want to believe that it can solve all the problems.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's literally where I started when AI came on.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, this will be amazing.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: It will solve and you but get to the point where no, you really do have to have a human there to check it, um, to make sure it's right because the cost is too high if it's wrong in so many cases.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I think of it as like when you're thinking about is this good for AI or not, you can kind of ask three questions.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: One, is it a judgment call or is it more black and white, like a zero or one?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, two, could you check the output of the AI faster than actually doing the task yourself?
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: That it's not always the case.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: So think about is it actually faster and easier for me to just do it?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or check what AI did.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then the third one is what's the cost if it's wrong?
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if it's no big deal, you can fix it, that's cool.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if it's like, you know, you're non-compliant and everyone's gonna protest, like maybe that's not the best piece of AI.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a profession for the faint-hearted, is it?
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: No, you're absolutely right.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: You need the human in the loop.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so finally, I want to zoom out.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: You've worked across defense crimes and cybersecurity, and now contracting cost technology.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: If you had to pick one shift in how government buys or manages contracts that would have the biggest impact on efficiency and transparency, what would it be and what's standing in the way of making it happen faster?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: Now I know there are big questions for you, but so many shifts, so many changes.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's RFO, outcome-based contracting, yeah, workforce empowerment, training, like so many.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but combining sort of my technology and cyber background with now my experience in acquisition, I think it's data sharing and um having interoperable data across uh the business ecosystem.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's just I we forget that AI requires good data.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um low quality data, say garbage in, garbage out, right?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so to make us more efficient, to make the change to get us to where we need to be, I think you have to think about how are we going to connect the data and make it easier for people.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, as is often the case, technology is not what holds it back, right?
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like we can figure out how to integrate systems, how to put the data in one place and give access.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think the very question is how is policy and ownership of the data supporting that vision?
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um as a system owner myself, previously it's very hard to like go with your data.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you don't want to trust anybody, especially the sensitive stuff.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, how do we help system owners and users kind of take that step of trust?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then the third thing is uh we uh in this world, um technology can bro providers can talk a good game and show a beautiful demo.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so, how do we not get distracted by the demo and continue to prioritize the functionality and um getting users you know more efficient?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I'm excited about where this world is going.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: Me too, me too.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm more excited after speaking to you, Nancy.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: It was a very cool conversation.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's a great place to leave it.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, thank you so much for this conversation.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: Together, the technical and business sides of federal contracting, the way you have presented it, gives our listeners a really genuinely different lens on where the profession is headed.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you so much, Nancy.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, thank you.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: And thank you, listeners, for uh being here, for listening to the leading edge.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: If you like what you heard, stay tuned for our next episode where we will continue to explore the ideas, innovations, and leadership shifts that are shaping the future of commerce and contracting.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: Until then, keep challenging, keep adapting, and keep leading.