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Staying Human in the Age of AI · The Uplifters

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SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Uplifters podcast,
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where every week I get the privilege of talking to women in
1:25
midlife who are doing
1:26
SPEAKER_00: big,
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brave things to inspire all of us to keep doing bigger and
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braver things and
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SPEAKER_00: proving to ourselves that it's not too late.
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SPEAKER_00: Today, I have the great joy of talking to Susan Ruth.
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SPEAKER_00: a filmmaker, songwriter, painter, and she hosts the Hey Human podcast.
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SPEAKER_00: In celebration of February and all this talk about love everywhere,
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SPEAKER_00: we're going to talk about something that Susan and I share,
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SPEAKER_00: which is human love.
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And humans right now in this weird AI moment where we have such
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a love affair with
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offloading so many of our decisions and so much of our capacity
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to digital tools
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SPEAKER_00: and what it means to be a human now and in the future.
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SPEAKER_00: So Susan... And our humanity.
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SPEAKER_00: And our humanity.
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SPEAKER_00: We're offloading our humanity.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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I'm so excited to talk to you about this as an artist,
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as a human,
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as a lover of humans.
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SPEAKER_00: So thanks for being here today, Susan.
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SPEAKER_03: Humans by nature are not solitary creatures.
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SPEAKER_03: We don't survive solitarily.
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SPEAKER_03: When we're born, we can't exist without someone taking care of us, right?
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SPEAKER_03: And that lasts forever.
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And it's interesting because in dementia patients and people
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who are put in homes
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SPEAKER_03: and maybe they don't get visited by family or friends or anything,
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SPEAKER_03: they deteriorate quite rapidly.
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SPEAKER_03: And there's a reason for that.
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SPEAKER_00: We need connection.
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SPEAKER_00: We do.
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SPEAKER_00: We do.
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SPEAKER_00: Can we start by talking about the genesis of the Hey Human podcast?
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SPEAKER_00: Sure.
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SPEAKER_00: Just because I love that story so much.
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SPEAKER_03: Yeah, sure, sure.
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SPEAKER_03: It came because there had been two shootings at the time.
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SPEAKER_03: Now,
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SPEAKER_03: of course,
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SPEAKER_03: there's mass shootings and shootings every single day in America,
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SPEAKER_03: several times a day in some cases.
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SPEAKER_03: At the time, maybe not yet as prevalent, 2016, there were two
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SPEAKER_03: mass shootings back to back that rocked me hard.
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SPEAKER_03: It rocked my faith in humanity.
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And it's funny because at the top of this,
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you said,
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you know,
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we both love humans.
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SPEAKER_03: And I got to say,
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I don't know that I can really say that unequivocally because I
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don't always love
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SPEAKER_03: humans.
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In fact,
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I struggle with loving humans because they're so awful to each
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other.
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SPEAKER_03: And so for me,
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SPEAKER_03: I feel like in my life,
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SPEAKER_03: I'm on a journey on not giving up,
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SPEAKER_03: not turning my back on humans,
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SPEAKER_03: not feeling like we've lost everything.
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SPEAKER_03: We've lost our way so completely.
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SPEAKER_03: Right now, it's especially difficult to not feel that way.
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SPEAKER_03: But back then in 2016, there had been two mass shootings, devastating.
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SPEAKER_03: And I was living in Nashville at the time.
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SPEAKER_03: And I was incredibly distraught, really just crying my eyes out.
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SPEAKER_03: And I called my dad because he's a touchstone for me.
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SPEAKER_03: and a grounding source for me.
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SPEAKER_03: And I called him and I said, Dad, you know, I just, I can't anymore.
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SPEAKER_03: With humans, I can't.
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SPEAKER_03: I don't understand humans.
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SPEAKER_03: I don't.
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SPEAKER_03: Why are we so awful to each other?
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SPEAKER_03: And he's a scientist.
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SPEAKER_03: So the bottom line is he's always got a scientific response to that.
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SPEAKER_03: He references one of his favorite books, The Selfish Gene.
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SPEAKER_03: He says, well, you know, in The Selfish Gene, I'm like, yeah, I get it.
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SPEAKER_03: I get it.
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SPEAKER_03: But let's take all that out of the equation,
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SPEAKER_03: spiritually,
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SPEAKER_03: emotionally,
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SPEAKER_03: intuitively,
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SPEAKER_03: whatever it is.
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SPEAKER_03: Why are humans so horrendous to each other more and more and more?
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SPEAKER_03: I had reached a tipping point.
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SPEAKER_03: I couldn't do it anymore.
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SPEAKER_03: And I was like, that's it.
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SPEAKER_03: I'm done.
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SPEAKER_03: I'm done with humanity.
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SPEAKER_03: I've given up.
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SPEAKER_03: And he said, you can't give up.
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And I know it hurts him when I'm in so much pain as a father
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and as a wise elder person.
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SPEAKER_03: But he said, you can't give up.
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SPEAKER_03: You have to look for the light.
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SPEAKER_03: Through my horrendous snot-nosed face, I said...
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SPEAKER_03: How?
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SPEAKER_03: There's no light left.
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SPEAKER_03: And he said, you know, that's not true.
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SPEAKER_03: And my father is traditionally a pessimist.
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So the fact that that was his response was really lovely of him
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because I was
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SPEAKER_03: hurting so,
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SPEAKER_03: so much.
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And I was on my way home and I needed to stop at the grocery
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store to get something to eat.
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And so we hung up the phone and I pulled into the parking lot
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of the Kroger.
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And fixed my face,
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which was now puffy and tear stain and blew my nose several
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dozen times.
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SPEAKER_03: And I got out of the car and I was resigned to be done.
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And I didn't know what that meant or what it looked like,
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but it just felt like I was just done.
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And I walked into the grocery store and I made it a few feet
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when this elderly man,
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SPEAKER_03: a black man,
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SPEAKER_03: was walking toward me.
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SPEAKER_03: And as I walked past him, he said, evening, sister.
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And the way the word sister hit me was so profound and it broke
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me open and I did
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SPEAKER_03: everything I could to not burst into tears in that second.
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SPEAKER_03: And I said,
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SPEAKER_03: hello,
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SPEAKER_03: you know,
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and I went and got my stuff and was in the checkout line and he
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happened to be in
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SPEAKER_03: front of me in the checkout line.
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SPEAKER_03: I really wish I knew his name or where he was or if he's still around.
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SPEAKER_03: He's elderly, but what a lovely man.
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And he turned to me and he looked at the things I had on the
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conveyor belt.
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SPEAKER_03: He said, oh, what are we having for dinner?
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SPEAKER_03: And we chatted about our mutual love for sweet potatoes and
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And he went on his way and I was doing my checkout and I turned
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and to my left was
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SPEAKER_03: a father with two kids and they were speaking in Spanish.
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SPEAKER_03: And the father and the son forgot something.
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SPEAKER_03: They went to get it and they left behind the dad's small daughter.
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She wasn't saying a word,
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but she looked up to me and smiled and I smiled at her.
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SPEAKER_03: There was something, she didn't say a word.
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SPEAKER_03: She just, it was more like a beaming,
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SPEAKER_03: She beamed at me and it was so sweet and cute and just she was adorable.
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SPEAKER_03: And dad and son came back and I paid for my stuff and I was walking away.
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SPEAKER_03: And at the last moment, I stopped at the door and I turned back.
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And she had made her wait past the little checkout place so
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that she and I were now
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SPEAKER_03: facing each other.
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SPEAKER_03: She had wandered out to face me.
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SPEAKER_03: And she was still just smiling at me so beautifully.
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I swear to God,
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I tell this story and every time it gets me because it was
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perfect.
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SPEAKER_03: And she smiled at me and I smiled at her.
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SPEAKER_03: And then I went and I sat in my car.
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SPEAKER_03: And I burst into tears again.
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And this time I was crying for a whole different reason because
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I felt like these
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SPEAKER_03: two people had reminded me in a very,
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SPEAKER_03: whether you're religious or not,
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SPEAKER_03: to me,
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SPEAKER_03: it felt like a very God wink moment of like,
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SPEAKER_03: here are two angels on earth.
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SPEAKER_03: And don't forget that we are all connected.
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SPEAKER_03: There was this teeny tiny tot person and this elderly man person,
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and they both gave me so much love in a moment when I was in so
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much pain.
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SPEAKER_03: It was really beautiful.
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And so I decided,
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okay,
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I get your message,
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universe,
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God,
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whatever,
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whoever.
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SPEAKER_03: I get it.
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SPEAKER_03: I'm going to, what can I do?
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How do I take the pain that I'm feeling and turn it into
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something positive?
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SPEAKER_03: And so I decided,
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SPEAKER_03: well,
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SPEAKER_03: I guess it's really about singular people,
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SPEAKER_03: connecting with singular people.
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SPEAKER_03: How do I do that?
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SPEAKER_03: And I thought, well, I'll do a podcast.
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SPEAKER_03: I had no business to do a podcast, know nothing about podcasting.
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SPEAKER_03: I come from a music background,
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SPEAKER_03: but I'm not the one at the controls or anything,
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SPEAKER_03: but that didn't matter.
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SPEAKER_03: I made a list of the kind of people I wanted to talk to.
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and that started the process of hey human podcast i just
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started recording the
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early recordings are terrible sounding the content there but
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they sound not so
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great but i just learned as i went and i committed to it and it
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begat more and more
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SPEAKER_03: people coming to me from various directions and
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SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so that's how it was born.
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Sorry,
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it still gets me because it was such a pure,
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it was such a pure moment.
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SPEAKER_03: I've had a few of those kinds of things in my life that were profound.
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SPEAKER_03: It's in the top, top, top profound moments in my life.
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These people,
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right,
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like as you describe them,
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there is such diversity and outward presence.
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The young child who speaks Spanish,
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there is an old man who has darker skin than you.
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Yeah,
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but in those moments that it was human to human,
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him calling me sister.
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SPEAKER_03: It was sameness.
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SPEAKER_03: In the moment, all I saw was a kind man calling me sister.
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And in that particular word,
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that connector word of like,
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you are my family.
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SPEAKER_03: I am your family.
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SPEAKER_03: That's what struck me.
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SPEAKER_03: And I don't know, there's something about old... I love old people.
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SPEAKER_03: Are they not the best?
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SPEAKER_03: They just...
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the best and so but maybe he could have been anyone but he also
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was just so it was
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just it was such a moment of real and this little child who
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maybe hadn't been
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spoiled by the world yet or maybe who knows I don't know what
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was going on you know
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SPEAKER_03: in her life but
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should that radiate of of just pure happy and sweetness and
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smiling maybe I
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elicited something in her but something made her walk back out
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and that's why I say
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like in those moments are angels on earth you know because and
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I'm not religious
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SPEAKER_03: I'm deeply spiritual I'm deeply energetic but
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SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I don't think it was about their differences.
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SPEAKER_03: I think it was about their same, if that makes sense.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it does.
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SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
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And I hear,
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see me in the little girl,
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just this kind of relentlessness to say,
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I'm here.
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_00: And to say, I see you.
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SPEAKER_03: And to say, you're here too.
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SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
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SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly.
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SPEAKER_03: Yeah, profound, deeply profound.
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SPEAKER_03: And something as silly as like, oh, you're having a yam for dinner?
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SPEAKER_03: I love yams too.
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SPEAKER_03: Even that.
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SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
11:59
SPEAKER_03: Even that.
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And my mission for Hey Human has always been that I don't
12:06
necessarily have to agree
12:08
SPEAKER_03: with the other person.
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SPEAKER_03: I just, I want to know why they think the way they do.
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SPEAKER_03: And I've had pushback.
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SPEAKER_03: Some people saying, you know, oh, how can you talk to that person?
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SPEAKER_03: But I think the truth of that is,
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SPEAKER_03: exposing warts and all,
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SPEAKER_03: beauty and all,
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SPEAKER_03: because I have warts and I have beauty,
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SPEAKER_03: as does every single person on the planet.
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SPEAKER_03: And I think every time somebody listens to the show and they hear,
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SPEAKER_03: let's say they're listening to someone,
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SPEAKER_03: we're like,
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SPEAKER_03: I don't agree with anything this person is going to say,
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SPEAKER_03: but there is a moment,
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SPEAKER_03: let's say there's a sentence,
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SPEAKER_03: there's a word that resonates.
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SPEAKER_03: I think that
12:50
enforces the idea that nobody's perfect and we can't pretend
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that everything that
12:56
SPEAKER_03: we don't like in the world lives in the shadows.
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SPEAKER_03: It doesn't.
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SPEAKER_03: It's every day.
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SPEAKER_03: It's in our every waking moment.
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SPEAKER_03: The good, the bad, the ugly, the beautiful, the painful, the joyous.
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SPEAKER_03: It's all everywhere all at once.
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SPEAKER_03: But we're so desensitized to everything.
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SPEAKER_03: And you said, you know, oh, here we look at the AI and
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SPEAKER_03: We're so lonesome.
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And yet instead of reaching out to our fellow human who can
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hurt us emotionally or
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SPEAKER_03: physically or judge us or call us out,
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SPEAKER_03: we have these machines now talking to us as if they're our best friends.
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SPEAKER_03: And I've listened.
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SPEAKER_03: I don't do it, but I've listened to other people talk to theirs.
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SPEAKER_03: And I find it's really interesting because AI tends to placate first.
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SPEAKER_03: That's a really good question.
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SPEAKER_03: And then goes on to say whatever.
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And we are so malnourished in love and attention and being seen
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that this weird
13:55
SPEAKER_03: wire monkey...
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SPEAKER_03: Do you remember the test from the 70s of the baby monkey?
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SPEAKER_03: They're released into a...
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They're deprived and then they're released into a pen that has
14:04
a monkey mother
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SPEAKER_03: that's just wire and like broomsticks.
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And the baby monkey is so deprived,
14:11
it goes straight forward and cuddles to it,
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even though...
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SPEAKER_03: a poor substitute.
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SPEAKER_03: But that's kind of what we're doing with the AI, isn't it?
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We're hugging the metal monkey and it's like,
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what the freak are we doing?
14:27
What?
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SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're offloading that connection.
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SPEAKER_03: Terrified to be vulnerable.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're terrified to be vulnerable.
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SPEAKER_00: And part of that is to what you were saying before,
14:39
we're terrified for other people to know that we have a shadow
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side or a dark side
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or flaws or faults or whatever you want to call them because
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they're all kind of
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SPEAKER_00: the same thing.
14:48
SPEAKER_03: Or a tender side for that matter.
14:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:50
SPEAKER_00: Which many people see as a fault.
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SPEAKER_00: How has a human, how many episodes have you created now?
14:56
SPEAKER_00: Heading toward 500.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: That's bonkers.
15:00
SPEAKER_00: Bonkers.
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SPEAKER_00: How has it shifted your perception of humans?
15:05
SPEAKER_03: Listen, we are in tricky times.
15:07
SPEAKER_03: So I'm on the fence still with humanity.
15:11
SPEAKER_03: However, I absolutely love having conversations with people.
15:15
SPEAKER_03: I love going into the depth of who they are and why they are.
15:21
SPEAKER_03: It's my favorite thing in the whole world.
15:22
SPEAKER_03: I think it's made me a better human.
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SPEAKER_03: It has made me a better listener, a deeper listener.
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SPEAKER_03: So not just what the person is saying, but what they're not saying.
15:33
SPEAKER_03: And it's also made me understand myself more.
15:37
Again,
15:38
I've always,
15:39
ever since I was little,
15:40
I have been in touch with my shadow side.
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SPEAKER_03: I think it's, I've grown to care for that side as much as the other side.
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SPEAKER_00: And together it's truth.
15:50
SPEAKER_03: It sounds very woo-woo, but it's just, I just, I don't know.
15:55
Talking to that many people who are so different than myself
15:58
and yet seeing how
15:59
SPEAKER_03: similar we are at the same time,
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SPEAKER_03: I don't know that you could help but grow from that experience.
16:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
16:07
showing up for anything over and over and over again for a long
16:10
period of time is
16:12
SPEAKER_00: going to change us.
16:14
And so we better be careful what we choose to show up for over
16:18
and over and over again.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: So you were an artist through and through,
16:23
SPEAKER_00: Susan,
16:24
SPEAKER_00: and were to take away one theme in my conversations with you so far.
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SPEAKER_00: It really is a real integrity about who you are in the world.
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SPEAKER_03: I believe that I know who I am.
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SPEAKER_03: Once you get to a place where you know who you are,
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SPEAKER_03: The rest is noise.
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SPEAKER_03: So other people can't have you.
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SPEAKER_03: They can't own your mind.
16:52
SPEAKER_03: They can't persuade your doubt.
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SPEAKER_03: They can't sell you something.
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SPEAKER_03: What was that poem?
17:01
SPEAKER_03: I am the captain of my soul.
17:03
So it's that idea that the things like the social media,
17:07
they want to convince me.
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SPEAKER_03: I'm not going to speak for anyone else.
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SPEAKER_03: They want to convince me that I'm not smart enough,
17:13
SPEAKER_03: pretty enough,
17:13
SPEAKER_03: have big enough boobs,
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SPEAKER_03: shiny enough hair.
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SPEAKER_03: I'm on the right side of this or the wrong side of that.
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SPEAKER_03: I know who I am.
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SPEAKER_03: And I think once you get to that point of,
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SPEAKER_03: I don't work for any machine anymore,
17:27
SPEAKER_03: which is very disconcerting to the powers that be,
17:31
SPEAKER_03: the mechanisms in which we live our life.
17:35
SPEAKER_03: It can be kind of lonesome for certain.
17:37
It can be,
17:38
I mean,
17:39
I joke,
17:39
it's like,
17:40
oh,
17:40
I wish I knew how to be like that.
17:43
SPEAKER_03: But do I?
17:43
SPEAKER_03: I don't think I do.
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SPEAKER_03: Because what would be the point?
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SPEAKER_03: I don't know if any of that is making sense.
17:49
SPEAKER_03: Other than the other day I came home and it had been a long day.
17:53
SPEAKER_03: And look, I love TikTok as much as anyone else.
17:55
SPEAKER_03: I've learned a lot on TikTok.
17:57
SPEAKER_03: It's also seemingly to be the one place to get
18:01
actual news of the events going on in america in the world that
18:06
is yet to be is yet
18:08
to be filtered because nobody i think it's coming i think
18:11
they'll start to filter
18:12
it out but it's not owned by a news conglomerate so the message
18:17
is human it's
18:18
SPEAKER_03: people filming things going on and being there and being present
18:22
SPEAKER_03: But I found myself sitting on the couch.
18:25
SPEAKER_03: My brain had been overactive that day.
18:27
SPEAKER_03: And I thought, I just want to check out for a few minutes.
18:30
SPEAKER_03: That was what I said to myself.
18:32
SPEAKER_03: So I sat down on the couch and I opened up TikTok.
18:35
SPEAKER_03: And when I tell you, three hours went by.
18:40
SPEAKER_03: Three hours.
18:41
SPEAKER_03: And I kind of snapped out of it.
18:44
SPEAKER_03: It was as if I had been under hypnosis.
18:47
SPEAKER_03: Even,
18:47
SPEAKER_03: you know,
18:47
SPEAKER_03: and I was looking at all different things,
18:49
SPEAKER_03: funny things,
18:50
SPEAKER_03: plant things,
18:50
SPEAKER_03: cooking things.
18:51
SPEAKER_03: I'm obsessed watching people cook.
18:53
SPEAKER_03: Am I going to cook any of these things?
18:55
SPEAKER_03: No.
18:55
SPEAKER_03: Do I watch the whole thing?
18:56
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
18:56
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
18:58
At the end of it,
18:58
I remember I was sitting there and I was sort of like,
19:01
my drooling?
19:03
SPEAKER_03: I felt like I had just, it's the modern day Quailude.
19:07
I feel like I had sent myself into the straight jacket and the
19:12
pill and I'm now
19:14
quietly sitting somewhere where I won't be a nuisance to anyone
19:17
or anything.
19:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
19:19
And I thought,
19:19
my God,
19:20
that is really what all that stuff is probably used for.
19:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
19:25
SPEAKER_03: In a truly dystopian Orwellian sense.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: It's a sedative.
19:31
SPEAKER_03: It's a sedative.
19:33
SPEAKER_00: And it's a present.
19:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
19:36
SPEAKER_03: And so I went, oh, I shouldn't be doing that.
19:40
at all so now i'm being very i'm like very aware as soon as i
19:44
go to do it i'm like
19:45
all right i'm gonna look at this this and this i become very
19:48
intentional about it
19:49
and then that's it and so far so good but man it really it's
19:55
meant to just put us
19:56
in a pen and feed us full and then they'll slaughter us and eat
20:02
our you know our
20:04
SPEAKER_03: flanks and
20:06
SPEAKER_03: That's my veal reference.
20:07
SPEAKER_03: Having never eaten veal, I assume it's the flank.
20:09
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
20:10
SPEAKER_03: Anyway, it doesn't matter.
20:13
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, I'm pontificating, but you get it.
20:15
SPEAKER_03: It's like,
20:16
SPEAKER_03: and again,
20:17
there's this AI that's eating my mind and knows exactly what to
20:22
do to put me in
20:23
SPEAKER_03: that seductive
20:23
productive sedative space so let's talk about fatalism i've
20:28
been thinking about the
20:29
parallels between midlife and the state of the world recently
20:34
that i think
20:35
somewhere in midlife there is this tendency to sort of be like
20:39
oh well i'm over the
20:40
hill and i'm 40 or 50 i gotta just like bide my time to the
20:46
freedom of 65 and
20:48
I'm just looking way out the road at this distant future and I
20:53
just have to
20:53
SPEAKER_00: tolerate everything for a couple of decades to get there.
20:57
But I'm like,
20:58
it's the most disengaging,
21:01
uninspiring road for a few decades.
21:04
And then how many people end up having a heart attack as soon
21:07
as they retire and
21:07
SPEAKER_00: never get to enjoy it?
21:08
SPEAKER_00: But that's another story.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile,
21:10
SPEAKER_00: I think in parallel,
21:12
SPEAKER_00: there is this tension for so many of us right now where it's like,
21:18
SPEAKER_00: I see how the world can be better.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: I want to change it.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: And then there's a part of us that's like, oh, but it won't work.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: Oh, but it's all failing.
21:26
SPEAKER_00: Oh, why should you go and do big brave things when the world may end?
21:31
SPEAKER_00: That tension, I know it's like a very weird parallel I just made.
21:36
And yet I do think it's sort of an undercurrent right now for a
21:41
lot of people,
21:42
SPEAKER_00: this kind of like futility.
21:46
SPEAKER_00: And that was what you were feeling on that day that you said, I'm done.
21:54
And then it was this connection to others that made you say,
21:58
oh,
21:58
no,
21:59
I'm not done.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to act.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: And so where you sit at this point in your life,
22:06
SPEAKER_00: having produced 500 episodes of your podcast,
22:09
SPEAKER_00: written a bunch of songs within the context of this wacky,
22:14
SPEAKER_00: weird world that we live in,
22:16
SPEAKER_00: What inspires you?
22:19
SPEAKER_00: What keeps you motivated and active and out of TikTok and your head?
22:24
SPEAKER_03: I mean, ironically, humans, because and also animals.
22:31
SPEAKER_03: Animals inspire me also.
22:34
SPEAKER_03: You know,
22:34
you said something about we're going to keep doing this thing
22:37
and we can see the
22:37
SPEAKER_03: light at the time.
22:38
SPEAKER_03: We'll work till we retire and then die.
22:41
SPEAKER_03: The three most dangerous words in the English language is
22:45
SPEAKER_03: I'm going to.
22:48
And the feeling of futility that I had that then brought humans
22:55
into being is the
22:57
SPEAKER_03: same futility I think we're seeing out there in the world right now.
23:02
SPEAKER_03: Look at what's happening.
23:04
SPEAKER_03: People have got nothing left to lose because it is death.
23:09
SPEAKER_03: There are fates worse than death.
23:11
SPEAKER_03: And that's where we are.
23:13
SPEAKER_03: And
23:15
SPEAKER_03: If you look back historically,
23:17
the most beautiful art comes from times of great stress and
23:22
turmoil and terror and
23:24
SPEAKER_03: peril.
23:25
SPEAKER_03: And it does inspire me.
23:28
SPEAKER_03: I'm writing poetry all the time.
23:30
SPEAKER_03: I'm writing little stories all the time.
23:32
I am finding,
23:34
I mean,
23:35
in my building,
23:36
for example,
23:37
there's,
23:37
I think,
23:38
74,
23:38
75 units in
23:40
And I'm on the security team if something is amiss because I
23:44
live in a bit of a
23:45
SPEAKER_03: dangerous part of town.
23:47
SPEAKER_03: And if something's amiss, I'm one of the people that's called upon.
23:51
SPEAKER_03: I don't go alone.
23:52
I go with someone else or a couple of people because community
23:57
is what happens in
23:59
SPEAKER_03: times of futility.
24:00
SPEAKER_02: Mm hmm.
24:01
SPEAKER_03: Some of the most beautiful poetry,
24:03
SPEAKER_03: I've brought this up on my show before,
24:05
SPEAKER_03: in the concentration camps,
24:06
SPEAKER_03: which I know is an easy go-to in terms of great strife.
24:10
SPEAKER_03: But in the concentration camps, there was a group of children.
24:13
They found poetry written by these children that were interned
24:17
and beautiful,
24:18
SPEAKER_03: beautiful works of art.
24:20
And a man named Charles Davidson sent those to music and
24:23
created an incredible
24:25
SPEAKER_03: piece called The Butterfly.
24:27
SPEAKER_03: In our terror, in our sadness, great things.
24:33
SPEAKER_03: It's the phoenix, right?
24:34
SPEAKER_03: It's the phoenix just over and over again.
24:37
SPEAKER_03: Humanity, I don't know if we do it to ourselves.
24:40
SPEAKER_03: Like we need to find pain in order to rise above it.
24:43
SPEAKER_03: I don't understand it.
24:44
SPEAKER_03: I don't.
24:46
SPEAKER_03: I want us to be all like the bonobos.
24:49
SPEAKER_03: where we solve our problems by, you know, making out.
24:52
SPEAKER_03: But that's not the reality.
24:54
SPEAKER_03: And I see what we do to our children.
24:56
SPEAKER_03: And I see what we do to our animals.
24:58
SPEAKER_03: And it absolutely breaks my heart.
25:01
SPEAKER_03: And the amount of justification that gets made
25:06
for things like that there's a depth of cruelty that exists
25:10
within human nature i
25:12
don't know how to combat it or overcome it and it's i get into
25:18
moments of despair
25:19
because of it and i have to climb my way back out just like
25:23
everybody else and i do
25:25
SPEAKER_03: that with art until it stops feeling as bad it's still horrible and
25:29
SPEAKER_03: Everything that's going on is horrible.
25:31
SPEAKER_03: But my God, there's also a lot of beauty.
25:33
SPEAKER_03: We're seeing it over and over again.
25:35
People risking their very lives for strangers because some
25:40
things are worth dying for.
25:41
SPEAKER_00: Well,
25:42
and I think that is the answer at the end of the day is if
25:46
you're worried,
25:48
SPEAKER_00: if you're fretting,
25:48
SPEAKER_00: you're in despair,
25:51
SPEAKER_00: make something or do something.
25:53
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
25:53
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
25:54
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
25:55
SPEAKER_03: Get out of yourself.
25:57
SPEAKER_03: We're selfish creatures.
25:59
SPEAKER_03: That's self-preservation.
26:01
SPEAKER_03: Narcissism comes easy to humans.
26:03
SPEAKER_03: But I think I speak for many people that I know myself.
26:07
I don't know about you,
26:08
but when we do go and do something for someone else,
26:11
you feel better.
26:12
You can't help but feel better because you're not thinking
26:14
about yourself.
26:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
26:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a distraction for a moment and it expands our perspective.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: It helps us zoom out a little bit.
26:23
And I think it also gets us out of our tendency toward victim
26:27
mindset where it
26:29
feels like everything is happening to us and that feels
26:32
paralyzing and it feels
26:34
SPEAKER_00: like we have no autonomy and we are wired for autonomy.
26:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:40
And so much of the division in our country is around feeling
26:45
like we are hungry for
26:46
SPEAKER_00: freedom and autonomy.
26:48
And so like the way we take it back is to act and ideally in
26:53
service of something we believe in.
26:54
SPEAKER_03: What can one person do said 300 million people?
26:59
SPEAKER_00: Wow.
27:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:01
SPEAKER_00: Well, there's a woman I quote, I feel like daily in my life now.
27:06
SPEAKER_00: Her name is Helen Arteaga Landoverde.
27:09
She was on the show in very early days and just the most
27:14
amazing story and
27:16
SPEAKER_00: everybody should go listen to it 50 times.
27:18
She's such an incredible storyteller and leader and has had
27:23
such amazing impact.
27:24
And she was just nominated by Mamdani as his deputy mayor for
27:28
Health and Human Services.
27:30
SPEAKER_00: And I'm just
27:31
SPEAKER_00: So excited for her to have such an active role in our city now.
27:35
But the lesson her father taught her and that she carried into
27:39
her incredible
27:41
SPEAKER_00: career is starting your own backyard.
27:44
SPEAKER_00: And so it's so wonderful to hear you say that,
27:46
SPEAKER_00: Susan,
27:46
SPEAKER_00: too,
27:47
SPEAKER_00: because I think it's the answer for all of us.
27:50
SPEAKER_00: that when we feel overwhelmed, the answer is to start.
27:54
SPEAKER_00: And it's to start close to home,
27:55
whether it's because we have a loved one with ALS and we want
27:59
to fight ALS,
28:00
SPEAKER_00: or it's because ICE agents are seizing our neighbors.
28:03
SPEAKER_00: It's starting close to what we know physically,
28:07
SPEAKER_00: mentally,
28:07
SPEAKER_00: emotionally,
28:08
SPEAKER_00: whatever,
28:08
SPEAKER_00: and stepping into somebody else's parade if we need to.
28:14
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to start the parade, but to just act.
28:17
And I can think of no greater act of love and no greater way to
28:21
create the future.
28:23
SPEAKER_03: Love and defiance.
28:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:26
SPEAKER_03: Right?
28:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:27
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
28:29
I love talking to you and I'm so,
28:32
so glad that the brilliant Teresa DeMasi introduced us.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: I love her.
28:36
SPEAKER_00: Yay, Teresa.
28:37
SPEAKER_00: I love her.
28:37
SPEAKER_00: You're awesome.
28:41
So as you know,
28:42
Teresa nominated you sort of and then I nominated you again.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: Come talk to me.
28:48
SPEAKER_00: But every guest on the show nominates another guest.
28:50
SPEAKER_00: Who do you nominate, Susan?
28:52
SPEAKER_03: Julia Kriskow, who is a dear friend of mine, she lives in Los Angeles.
28:58
SPEAKER_03: She grew up in New York.
28:59
SPEAKER_03: She lived in Atlanta for a spell.
29:01
SPEAKER_03: She grew up in the theater scene.
29:02
SPEAKER_03: Her father is quite a well-known theater teacher and person who,
29:08
SPEAKER_03: I guess,
29:09
SPEAKER_03: an actor who does the acting things too.
29:11
SPEAKER_03: But she and I met and I said this the other day,
29:15
SPEAKER_03: actually,
29:15
I was speaking with her because we had been invited to a
29:18
function and the function
29:19
SPEAKER_03: was mostly women.
29:22
And I said to her afterward,
29:24
did you know,
29:25
I have a my childhood was tricky.
29:29
SPEAKER_03: My mother was tricky.
29:31
And so for me,
29:33
connecting with women has been more difficult because in my
29:37
experience,
29:38
I
29:39
SPEAKER_03: They have betrayed me on a lot of levels in various times of my life.
29:43
SPEAKER_03: And I said to her,
29:45
SPEAKER_03: you know,
29:46
going to that party and seeing all these beautiful women who
29:48
were so supportive and
29:49
SPEAKER_03: loving to each other was so wonderful.
29:53
SPEAKER_03: And I said to her, you know, you also have done this to me.
29:57
SPEAKER_03: You are a reminder that there is such good,
30:00
SPEAKER_03: strong,
30:01
SPEAKER_03: supportive women who want really good things for each other.
30:06
SPEAKER_03: And I think we as women have been conditioned by the patriarchy,
30:11
SPEAKER_03: whether it's by men or other women,
30:13
SPEAKER_03: which both are capable of patriarchal decisions and all that,
30:17
SPEAKER_03: that it's just nice.
30:19
SPEAKER_03: It's nice to find women who are just badass.
30:23
SPEAKER_03: She's badass.
30:24
SPEAKER_03: She's brilliant.
30:24
SPEAKER_03: She's funny.
30:25
SPEAKER_03: She's driven.
30:28
SPEAKER_03: She's creative.
30:29
SPEAKER_03: She's deeply soulful.
30:32
SPEAKER_03: Her heart is big.
30:35
SPEAKER_03: She wants the best for people, you know, and I like that in a human.
30:38
SPEAKER_03: And she loves dogs, which I also appreciate because I love dogs.
30:42
SPEAKER_03: She's just badass.
30:43
SPEAKER_03: So when I saw the little intake sign up thing that you sent,
30:48
SPEAKER_03: she was the first person that came to her.
30:50
SPEAKER_03: I know a lot of really wonderful people.
30:51
SPEAKER_03: I do.
30:52
SPEAKER_03: And L.A.
30:53
SPEAKER_03: is great for that.
30:55
SPEAKER_03: I have met incredible people here.
30:57
SPEAKER_03: I could probably give you a whole long list.
30:59
SPEAKER_03: She was the first one that came to mind.
31:01
SPEAKER_00: It's interesting listening to you describe her.
31:04
I strongly suspect that somebody who admires you would describe
31:09
you with the exact same list.
31:11
SPEAKER_03: Well, maybe I would hope that she would also be inspired by me.
31:16
SPEAKER_03: But, you know, you meet people and you just fall in love.
31:21
You're like,
31:21
this is a great person that I just want to be around forever.
31:26
SPEAKER_03: And it's good because my inner child,
31:29
SPEAKER_03: you know,
31:29
SPEAKER_03: the person who is used to being hurt,
31:31
SPEAKER_03: perhaps,
31:33
SPEAKER_03: is sort of
31:34
SPEAKER_03: looking over the couch going, is this person safe?
31:37
SPEAKER_03: Is this person safe?
31:38
And little by little,
31:39
you know,
31:41
you learn that people are safe and they are okay.
31:46
SPEAKER_00: A wise friend of mine said to me earlier this week,
31:49
SPEAKER_00: she said,
31:50
maturity and spirituality are learning to trust other people
31:57
and to allow ourselves
31:58
SPEAKER_00: to be heard.
32:00
SPEAKER_00: That all of our core personality defects,
32:04
SPEAKER_00: as she describes them,
32:05
SPEAKER_00: are built to protect us from connection.
32:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:10
SPEAKER_00: And I really sat with that and I was like, shit, Lisa's right again.
32:14
SPEAKER_03: I agree with Lisa.
32:15
SPEAKER_03: I don't know Lisa.
32:16
SPEAKER_03: I agree with Lisa.
32:17
SPEAKER_00: I think she's like episode number five.
32:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, being a human is hard.
32:21
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's so hard.
32:23
SPEAKER_00: It's so hard.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: As uplifters, we love to uplift other uplifters.
32:28
SPEAKER_00: How can we uplift you in your work?
32:31
SPEAKER_03: Check out my stuff.
32:33
SPEAKER_03: I've got music under Susan Ruth on Apple Music.
32:38
The best way to support me is to look for independent artists
32:43
all over the globe
32:44
SPEAKER_03: and support them.
32:45
SPEAKER_03: Go to live music.
32:47
SPEAKER_03: Go to art shows.
32:48
SPEAKER_03: buy the smallest piece of art if you can't afford a big piece of art,
32:52
SPEAKER_03: but from up and coming artists,
32:54
SPEAKER_03: go to the movies,
32:56
SPEAKER_03: get your butt in the movie theater,
32:57
SPEAKER_03: watch the movie.
32:58
SPEAKER_03: It takes such care and love to make a film.
33:02
SPEAKER_03: And there's a lot of people
33:04
who are supported by making that film show them that love go to
33:08
the movies don't
33:09
just sit in your on your couch and look at your phone yeah
33:12
that's how you support
33:13
me is support art support art and makers and creatives and then
33:18
spread the word
33:19
right like i think that's a big part of it is like rating and
33:22
reviewing records we
33:24
SPEAKER_00: all like toss those words around but it really does matter
33:28
SPEAKER_00: It does.
33:29
SPEAKER_03: To say like,
33:29
SPEAKER_00: I saw this movie and I liked it,
33:31
SPEAKER_00: to share it,
33:32
SPEAKER_00: to scream out loud when we like these things.
33:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
33:34
SPEAKER_03: Don't be afraid of joy.
33:36
SPEAKER_03: There are plenty of people like, oh, why are you happier?
33:39
SPEAKER_03: Why are you so full of joy?
33:40
SPEAKER_03: Feel the thing.
33:42
SPEAKER_03: Be proud of a thing.
33:43
SPEAKER_03: Be in joy.
33:45
SPEAKER_03: Bring back joy.
33:47
SPEAKER_03: Let joy resound.
33:49
SPEAKER_03: My God, we need it more than ever.
33:51
SPEAKER_03: Do not be afraid of your own happiness.
33:54
SPEAKER_03: Don't let other people...
33:56
make you feel less than or small because you smile or you feel
34:01
joy or you enjoy
34:02
SPEAKER_03: something or you want to eat something or you want to,
34:05
SPEAKER_03: you know,
34:06
SPEAKER_03: let that be.
34:07
SPEAKER_03: And that too is a form of rebellion is to be joyful, be joyful.
34:14
That's the gift you give to me out there in the world because
34:17
it changes everything.
34:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
34:20
SPEAKER_00: You're so awesome.
34:22
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for being here.
34:24
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
34:28
SPEAKER_00: your time and your energy and your point of view.
34:35
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
34:35
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
34:36
SPEAKER_00: I really appreciate it.
34:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
34:38
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
34:40
Oh,
34:40
for those of you listening,
34:41
thank you too for sharing your time and your energy.
34:45
SPEAKER_00: And please keep talking to us over on Substack,
34:49
which I will say is the other platform where you can get real
34:53
news and real human
34:55
SPEAKER_00: stories.
34:56
SPEAKER_00: And I really, really, really love it.
34:58
And we're at theuplifterspodcast.com,
35:01
which just directs right over to Zupac.
35:03
SPEAKER_00: And we have an amazing community of folks there,
35:05
SPEAKER_00: lots of great neuroscience on midlife,
35:09
SPEAKER_00: how we change,
35:10
SPEAKER_00: how to use our brains to work for us instead of against us in this time,
35:15
SPEAKER_00: but also just how to do big,
35:16
SPEAKER_00: brave things like Susan.
35:19
SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
35:20
SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
35:21
SPEAKER_03: And thanks for listening, everybody.
35:22
SPEAKER_03: Go be brave.
35:24
SPEAKER_03: Go be brave even when it feels like you can't.
35:26
SPEAKER_03: Just can.
35:27
SPEAKER_03: I promise.
35:28
SPEAKER_03: I promise.
35:31
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to the Uplifters podcast.
35:34
SPEAKER_00: If you're getting a boost from these episodes,
35:37
please share them with the Uplifters in your life and then join
35:42
us in conversation
35:43
SPEAKER_00: over at theuplifterspodcast.com.
35:47
SPEAKER_00: Head over to Spotify,
35:48
SPEAKER_00: Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast and like,
35:53
SPEAKER_00: follow and rate our show.
35:55
It'll really help us connect with more uplifters and it'll
35:59
ensure you never miss
36:01
SPEAKER_00: one of these beautiful stories.
36:05
SPEAKER_01: Big love.
36:07
SPEAKER_01: Painted water,
36:08
SPEAKER_01: sunshine,
36:09
SPEAKER_01: with rosemary and tongue Dwell in love perplexing,
36:13
SPEAKER_01: though you find it vexing Toss a star and hover,
36:18
SPEAKER_01: be your own best lover Relish in a new prime,
36:23
SPEAKER_01: land a tree in springtime Dance without all hindsight,
36:27
SPEAKER_01: bring the sun to twilight
36:31
SPEAKER_01: Lift you up.
36:32
SPEAKER_01: Lift you up.
36:35
SPEAKER_01: Lift you up.
37:02
SPEAKER_01: Lift you up.
37:04
SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
37:07
SPEAKER_01: I cried.
37:08
SPEAKER_00: It's that little thing you did with your voice.
37:17
SPEAKER_00: Right, in the pre-chorus, right?
37:19
SPEAKER_00: I was like... Mommy, stop crying.
37:23
SPEAKER_00: Mommy, stop crying.
37:24
SPEAKER_00: You're disturbing the peace.