Latest / Graymalkin Lane the podcast / Gus Beezer Meets the X-Men: X-Marks the Mutant! With Mutant Studies 101 Podcast!

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Gus Beezer Meets the X-Men: X-Marks the Mutant! With Mutant Studies 101 Podcast! · Graymalkin Lane the podcast

• 0:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Grand Vulcan Lane podcast where queer friends and allies gather to review it and discuss the original X-Men comics in continuity order except sometimes I just take you on the ride that my brain is going on everybody the theme in March has been gimmick so we are in our issue reviews exploring some of the weirdest versions of the X-Men today we're jumping back to a little red at probably little known 2003 book called Gus Beezer by one gale Simone who was writing a lot of Deadpool at the time future scribe of uncanny X-Men of course
• 0:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: I am here with some new friends who have a new X-Men pod in our little sub-weird little queer X-Men pod community out here.
• 0:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: I got to meet these two as some recent cons last year and I'm thrilled to be featuring the hosts of the incredible mutant studies pod guest on very walk-in-layan today.
• 0:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let me have you both introduce yourselves with your name and pronouns.
• 0:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Tell us a little about you and my initial question is I just want to hear a little of your origin story.
• 1:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: X-Men fans into podcast posts and tell me about your friendship as well.
• 1:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, thank you for that wonderful introduction.
• 1:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: My name is Morgan Ward.
• 1:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm the host of Mutant Studies 101.
• 1:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm one of the professors there as we like to say.
• 1:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: I guess I'll give a little feel for our show and then talk about myself too.
• 1:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: Where an academically unserious podcast about the X-Men.
• 1:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: So if what we do is we take academia and we take X-Men comics and we merge them all together, which is kind of
• 1:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: My origin story.
• 1:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm a grad student studying comic books, which is actually the first time I've said that allowed, which is pretty cool Because it's a relatively new change.
• 1:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Congratulations.
• 1:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.
• 1:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: So that's how I I found X-Men through the online community I've been a lifeer.
• 1:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: I've been reading comic books since I could read anything in fact like some of the first stuff I read with Calvin Hobbs comics, which it's gonna be really relevant today
• 1:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yep, I've got a list of things to talk about in Calvin and Hobbes, a lot of them.
• 1:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's on that list for sure, for sure.
• 2:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: And it just kind of completely raptured me because it's as a scholar.
• 2:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's everything that I think that the medium can do, and it's so vast.
• 2:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's so huge, but then also just as like a fan, the community that builds around X-Men comics is like no other.
• 2:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: And so I've met wonderful people like yourself, Chad, but also like my friends and other colleagues just through talking to people about.
• 2:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love you using the word scholar to describe yourself.
• 2:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let me also welcome Dean for the show, hi, Dean.
• 2:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hi, yeah, hi, I'm Dean Coburn.
• 2:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: I, he they pronouns.
• 2:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: I am the other professor of Mutant Studies 101.
• 2:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think Morgan described what the show is far better than I can.
• 2:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I would like to kind of go into a little bit of the origin story of the podcast, which was like me and Morgan were friends on the internet for a really long time.
• 2:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: for like our first episode and like what made us think we should have a podcast is we were thinking about like real world the real world implications of the trial of Magneto that was kind of our first big one and we were like we we were just texting back and forth.
• 3:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: We said doesn't mean for Gabby Holler to declare the Eric Lensher actually didn't do all that and then
• 3:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so that was like, and we were like, we were joking about it and then it also turned into us talking about like the real world implications of Alison Blair the disco dazzler are unofficial map the unofficial mascot of the show.
• 3:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: The person, the two of us are more obsessed with than any human being has a normal right to be.
• 3:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: We've dedicated like eight hours of our lives to talking about her.
• 3:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: But then it became the more scholarly thing as we sort of kept working at it and Morgan kind of discovered.
• 3:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: We discovered a real solid formatting for how we kind of wanted to do the show.
• 3:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then cut to nearly two years later,
• 3:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: and we've been doing this consistently since and it's been absolutely delightful.
• 4:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: As a guy who once made a decision to launch a show there's a very big difference between figuring out your format or like what you want to do or where you're interest lies and then doing it for years consistently, right?
• 4:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm always thrilled when someone new enters the community.
• 4:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Some newer recent friends like escape the module verse and X men horoscopes and you guys and the X men podcast from Australia like it's so fun to see new figures.
• 4:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: How's it been for you integrating into this kind of queer online sub X men world it's a beautiful space.
• 4:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think it's been, I always say that I understand why to a lot of people like content creator might feel a little like of a weird way to describe yourself, but I think really it was through flamecon and especially specifically meeting Chad at flamecon and the variety of people there that I really found that level of connection.
• 4:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: Because frankly,
• 5:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: I, we started the podcast and then about three to four months later, I kind of quit social media semi-cold turkey and so it wasn't really a, there wasn't really a way to for me to like necessarily reconnect with the ton of people through that, but then like having a physical real world gathering space that allowed me to like suddenly meet all of these other people has also been really wonderful.
• 5:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: I remember that phone call very well.
• 5:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: I remember you called me and you were like, this is like, I think that was the moment for you where it was like, this is real.
• 5:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is a real thing.
• 5:31
  [SPEAKER_05]: And for me, I was like, yeah, of course this is a real thing.
• 5:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is like what we're doing.
• 5:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is what we do.
• 5:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: But it took like finding community for you for this to be like, oh, this is incredible.
• 5:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we will continue when we're doing that, artsy things with our brains.
• 5:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I'm not intended.
• 5:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm very cerebral.
• 5:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm very, like, I, I, I am so thinking about like everything that if it weren't for Dean constantly like bringing me to events or saying like you should go to this thing, you should talk to this person.
• 6:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: I never would because I'm so much more content to be like, and what if I sit here and wrote something instead and maybe that's good.
• 6:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: And so that's kind of why I think we work to.
• 6:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's excellent.
• 6:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love smart cerebral friends.
• 6:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to have a good time.
• 6:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: I do a lot of academic show on my show.
• 6:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: So if you have to be prepared for invitations back as well, because I'm doing lots of nerdy character analysis and trials and things all the time.
• 6:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: For today, we're going to jump into a very non-academic space, but we're still going to treat it academically, which is a fun thing.
• 6:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Earlier this month, I reviewed the world where the X-Men are on a team called the Power Pack Eaterms.
• 6:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: They are all
• 6:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we had a big conversation on the show about this trend in the late 80s to have like animal parodies of things from the Ninja Turtles right down the line, right?
• 6:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: We also love like a gross out factor, like which is a big thing in the late 80s early 90s.
• 6:56
  [SPEAKER_04]: We got garbage pelkins.
• 6:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Starved Prokids, Ren and Stimpy, Beavison but head.
• 7:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of this kind of thing.
• 7:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: And for those of you that got to hear the show, I opened the month with, which will come out before this.
• 7:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's an intense interview with a Jim Salacrop and Glenn Herdling, all about Marvel's parody magazines over the years.
• 7:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we get to have a lot of fun.
• 7:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we're gonna treat this academically, but we're jumping into a very different world here.
• 7:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: That is not one.
• 7:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think most people want to say they enjoy their time in.
• 7:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to start us from a crazy place.
• 7:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: I grew up in the Missouri Ozarks in the 1980s, primarily.
• 7:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: I was right there in Tom Sawyer country.
• 7:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, modeling, writing, Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn is one of the first not the first examples of kind of a bad kid as the protagonist of a story, which is already an interesting place to take this.
• 7:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Tom is playing tricks on people.
• 7:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Huck is refusing to follow the rules.
• 7:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: They go on all these crazy adventures with larger than life.
• 7:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: My primary relationship to that was seeing a like when I was in late elementary school, I want to say seeing a middle school do a play version of Tom Sawyer.
• 8:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm glad we're on the same page with that.
• 8:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: So it's like that's my primary relationship to Tom Sawyer.
• 8:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: I definitely read it, but I was far too young and it was not like formative in that way for me.
• 8:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: I read Huckfin.
• 8:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't read Tom Sawyer.
• 8:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: So not to just be like, I'm better than you.
• 8:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: Sorry, we don't need that householdy.
• 8:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: No, you are.
• 8:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's okay.
• 8:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you can't sit without saying it.
• 8:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm just saying it.
• 8:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, so I, it's been years.
• 8:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: But that's such a great entry point to think about the Huxter character and to think about the, um, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the,
• 8:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: No, not even.
• 8:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's not even close to the level of like wit and cunning that characters.
• 8:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, I mean, I think my, my more like recent touchstone, uh, is personal evidence novel James, um, have either read this, it won the National Book Award.
• 8:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm familiar.
• 8:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: Have you read it?
• 8:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's fucking fantastic.
• 8:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: Can I swear on the show?
• 8:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: Sorry.
• 9:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, amazing.
• 9:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: An amazing book.
• 9:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: You sure fucking can swear.
• 9:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's personal ever reframing Huckleberry Finn through the lens of James, who's the enslaved person that has been like takes along on his journey, which is just kind of it's a fantastic novel that is like a needy in the way the first world is, but is also really contextualizing like what it means to be an escaped
• 9:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: enslaved person and like the kind of journeys that he goes on because it's also like the hoxster character like comes from uh and like what Mark Twain is messing with like comes from mincedlessly so it like it comes from like your bryer rabbit it comes from like bryer bear like those stories that are like past around through mincedlessly that were passed around through like black folktales yeah um what do we like like those two things are really entwined when you're like having a whole conversation
• 9:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: When we study literature, uh, unique perspectives is a very consistent thing that you study from little women to, uh, to kill a mockingbird, which is from the perspective of a child, right?
• 9:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's something about, uh, even the Wizard of Oz from the perspective.
• 10:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: there's all these tropes across like literary history, but the bad kid, the kid that's causing the problems, but you're still rooting for him.
• 10:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's like he's like a little bit of an outlaw, but also there's a certain level of innocence.
• 10:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think that we could easily draw a tie-in through comics obsession with creating the teen sidekick, but you draw that in all of those.
• 10:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: We want that kind of sin boy to look at the world from a
• 10:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, do either of you have an opinion on Dennis the menace, which is a show I grew up wearing that video tape out a little bit.
• 10:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, I mean, that character archetype, I think, is a really interesting sort of jumping in point.
• 10:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think, especially just because those characters are natural conflict drivers, which is a really critical part in any story, is that you need somebody to drive a conflict.
• 11:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, you get this interesting sort of man versus self conflict with those kinds of characters.
• 11:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: In addition, just sort of a man versus
• 11:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're Mr. Wilson, who's just next door to get cocked by a kid all the time.
• 11:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: I had a lot of dentists and men is comics growing up actually like the old like chat books like dollars or stuff because my grandfather had a whole trove of them, but I was definitely like I responded so much more to peanuts comics because I found dentists and men is to be like because he's a conflict driver.
• 11:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: five-year-old Morgan also feel bad.
• 11:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: And like for, I mean, I know we're going to get to Calvin and Hobbes, but like for whatever reason, like Calvin and Hobbes, I did not have that problem.
• 11:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I think that there's like, there's something else there that we can get to.
• 11:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: But like, well, let's say, they're Charlie Brown.
• 12:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: And peanuts is an interesting parallel.
• 12:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because Charlie Brown is more of the Mr. Wilson character.
• 12:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 12:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: You like the nice guy where there's people all around in primarily Lucy with Paul, she's more of the problem child, but peppermint patty and Snoopy and all these other characters
• 12:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we have this ability and then we, I, there's a photo of me at age 12.
• 12:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've talked about this on the show once before.
• 12:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm walking home from sixth grade in a rural town down the railroad tracks, reading the book Ramona Forever.
• 12:29
  [SPEAKER_04]: So if any of you are the one of the pets, yes, yes, yes, yes.
• 12:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: We put me in the local paper and I got teased endlessly because I was just reading how walking down the railroad tracks.
• 12:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: We want to forever is another one we have a naughty kid right Harry at the spy Calvin and Hobbs Who are some of you show up for you and what are your feelings about some of these characters?
• 12:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Morgan, it sounds like you've got some thoughts on Calvin himself.
• 12:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: I have thoughts on Calvin Hobbs.
• 12:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I mean, when you say Calvin and Hobbs, I picture that like decals sticker that shows like Calvin peeing on something Right like that's what I think of every time
• 13:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh my god.
• 13:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: I have somewhat of a relationship to Rugrats, uh, the cartoon.
• 13:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I guess.
• 13:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: Just rightly, it's for that.
• 13:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 13:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: And in that, in that case, I think it's interesting because you have like, Angelica as like the side character, which kind of fits into this archetype, as opposed to like similar to a Charlie Brown thing, as opposed to like the protagonist of the primary characters that you're following all the time, having that archetype being in the secondary role.
• 13:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: As opposed to something like the comic we're going to talk about today where we have that character in a lead role and also, you know, interesting other spot of how he's existing within the comic early because Rugrats and plays here is also on my list, I watched a shit set of Rugrats growing up, but early thought here when we have the naughty kid in modern stories.
• 13:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: As a shitty little boy we're way less sympathetic than a shitty little or bratty little girl like we I think we have a different energy with an Emma frost and we do a Clinton choir which is already an interesting thing to think about when you look at the problem kids we root for someone we do not root for others.
• 14:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: But there's something about the little kid, right?
• 14:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: In the X-Men world, I have an episode on already Maddox out there where we talk about like already in Leach or like the little buddies of the X-Men like getting into little hijinks, but everyone's in a while they see someone get murdered and it's just this like heart to reminder of reality.
• 14:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: When you make progress together, it's a really interesting thing.
• 14:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's so funny that your reference point is like the e-cal because like to me, like Calvin, like Calvin and Hobbes, I have like some very short memories.
• 14:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: I like that was the only thing I would read like the first grade.
• 14:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: It makes sense how I end up here.
• 14:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: But like the thing that I latched onto with those stories is that like it's kind of the stick to the non-story.
• 14:41
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like the kind of the brilliance of like what the water's in does is that like he's like, even though that like Calvin is like a problem child and he's kind of a menace.
• 14:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: like a terror in that sense.
• 14:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's never framing his stories in like a way that is like the damage that Calvin is doing is like unjustified.
• 15:01
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like he he comes across his very righteous where it's like because because the problems are so mundane the problems are like his mom wants him to put on his shoes so that he can leave the house and instead Calvin is like I absolutely will not do that because you're actually an alien priestess and if I put on my shoes that's how I
• 15:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: and like the juxtaposition between the two of that of like the non-plused parents and like Calvin's rich fantasy life to just solve the problem because these are comic strips too.
• 15:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's also essential like these aren't full stories like what are since doing like one full strips so you get set up punchline and you're done essentially.
• 15:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: But there was like something about like Calvin's really rich fantasy life, which is all throughout this in the this mean that that's bizarre comic that I found so compelling because he is just kind of playing make believe like that's what Hobbes is, Hobbes is his stuff tiger that he is anthropomorphized into being his own friend.
• 15:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: which is also like so isolating, like Calvin doesn't have human friends.
• 15:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like every human, like the Susie, who tries to talk to him, who is next to her neighbor, like wants to play pretend like one of my favorite or the strips that I think about all the time is one where Susie is roped Calvin into having a tea party with him.
• 16:09
  [SPEAKER_05]: And so most of the of the story is told in like their fantasy world where it's like, I think Calvin is
• 16:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: back in his face, adventurous face.
• 16:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: So he's like a god emperor and like Hobbes is still guard, I guess, and Susie and like Susie is trying to like have a princess adventure.
• 16:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: And then it like it cuts to them outside and he's like, and she's like, I don't understand why you won't play with me.
• 16:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: And he's like, I refuse.
• 16:34
  [SPEAKER_05]: And then it's like the strip ends.
• 16:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: And it's like she's like trying to like engage with him on his level and he just like can't do that and I I as a kid that like had a very rich fantasy life that I felt like a lot of the other people in my life didn't want to engage with and I also didn't know how to talk to them about it I felt very seen in a way that I don't with I didn't with like other trouble maker characters
• 16:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: there's something so interesting there's there's about five points we can go on here really quick there's different engines that I think are actually really relevant to the conversation today I'm a therapist in my day job and I'm a sociologist in my thinking so this is where I go with my academia very quickly when we're looking at these kids Charlie Brown doesn't have the rich interior imaginative world it's Snoopy that gets that Snoopy's Lord that has imagination adventure
• 17:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Snoopy and Lucy and Calvin are chaos, where characters like Mr. Wilson and Charlie Brown are order.
• 17:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: And all of us are grown-ups.
• 17:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: All of us have childhoods.
• 17:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: All of us miss being able to play and have imagination.
• 17:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: All of us can see ourselves as we look at the stories of adult things happening in the lives of a child.
• 17:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: And really, every one of these kids has ADHD, but also probably PTSD.
• 17:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: the nostalgia of it all.
• 17:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: The narrative switch of Morgan you just introduced though is Calvin's rich interior world, this kind of world of imagination.
• 17:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Look at Mr. Rogers and it's the land we leave with the puppets, right?
• 17:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like this is such a huge piece of childhood and when we mix the naughty kid with the rich imaginative world, so much of these
• 18:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Imagination sequences that we see are related to larger than life adventures, but also related to revenge fantasies because Oh, Mom wants me to put my shoes on.
• 18:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll be the emperor and stop on the house and later that gets a little bit more deadly in certain comic books, which is very very interesting because
• 18:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: kids have big feelings and they want to wait for them.
• 18:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to toss like a handful more out at you very quickly.
• 18:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Ralphie from a Christmas story and his entire characters.
• 18:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: My favorite book for a while is a kid in like fourth grade was Wayside School is falling down.
• 18:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: We've got two Jones and then we get into the more recent stuff.
• 18:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Diary of a Wimpy Kid and the Adventures of Captain Underpants.
• 18:42
  [SPEAKER_05]: I was going to ask if you're familiar with Dogman.
• 18:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Dogman, my kid, my youngest kid loves Dogman.
• 18:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 18:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, Dogman, a metaphor for divorce.
• 18:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: What if Dogman would have dogman was a metaphor for divorce and discovered your sexuality?
• 18:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: Which is what it is?
• 18:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a Harold and George using that story to cross us their own inner life.
• 19:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Just any thoughts showing up on this kind of correlation between the way adults view children, the tracks of imagination that show up.
• 19:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's, I think especially in the context of those stories, it's always interesting that parents are naturally framed as sort of the enemies in those kinds of things, or at the very least sort of existing outside the realm of of the story, and are trying to sort of break down the imaginative world of a child.
• 19:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: But those imaginative worlds are, again, going to take it to a place of dog man, again, those imaginative worlds are kind of like, when you look at that, when you ask that as sort of the way that a child is processing the world around them,
• 19:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: And whether it's, you know, you could, I'm sure do some sort of like deep negative reading about like the the way that these characters are using like imagination to escape problems rather than trying to confront them, but also that it's interesting because like,
• 20:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: the parents that are framed in these kinds of stories, clearly like want what's best for the child at the end of the day, but because you're viewing it through that lens, they naturally have to take on these villain roles, but in actuality, you know, nothing is going to come crumbling down because a child engages with with parent.
• 20:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
• 20:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of where I was saying the things in these stories are, how do I handle bullies?
• 20:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: How do I handle responsibility?
• 20:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: What
• 20:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: what is justice and righteousness?
• 20:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: How far is it okay to step in the other direction?
• 20:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: How do I consist authority?
• 20:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: How do I understand big world concepts?
• 20:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: And when we look at it from the eyes of dog man and captain underpants, my adult brain does not enjoy reading these so much, but you see these various tropes very consistently spread throughout them.
• 20:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: And whenever you get the feature character of a show as the perspective of a child, I mean, we could go on a long, long tangent here from Lilo and Lilo and Stitch to, to Clarissa explained that all to like, there's, there's a, there's a million versions of these even Rugrats is the version of babies trying to understand an adult, you know?
• 21:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: And Chad, I wrote my entire undergraduate thesis of this.
• 21:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: about like girls and animation and like try like about girls and animation like going through big hurdles and like trying to uncover.
• 21:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm enjoying how Morgan, I'm getting to know you, but you're like lighting up a little and you did not expect this in a Gus Beezer episode.
• 21:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I mean, I, I identified the Calvin and Hobbs so I'm immediately, but I was like, I trust Chad to like, take me into some group list.
• 21:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, I, if we take it to the world of animation of like, film and television stuff for kids, like, there's endless amounts of stories about
• 21:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: like the the weirdo kid.
• 21:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: So whatever, I read about weird girls.
• 21:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: So I even like Coraline was a touchstone.
• 21:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: I used turning red movie for a couple years ago as thinking about like these these are stories that are made by adults who at one point were the weird isolated kid and they are now reaching back to say this is the story I wanted to tell before in these in those cases like
• 22:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's, we'll guess a moment of the way has a whole little team of outliers now using that word more specifically where it's the message that it's bit kids.
• 22:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about this in the X-Men though.
• 22:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: So Chris Claremont very quickly picked up on this idea early on in the comics.
• 22:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: We need that POV younger character to bounce things off of.
• 22:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: We have Kitty Pride and then immediately after Kitty Pride is introduced is the days of future past.
• 22:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then we're, by a later we've got Kitty's fairy tale, the balance of world devastation and the imagination of a child is a weird juxtaposition.
• 22:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: We get characters like Jubilee or Doug Ramsey, The New Mutants, anytime you have a new character joining the X-Men, but during specific runs, we have more specific stories like Squidboy from the Chuck Austin run as an example, who's like a victim of child abuse and like just wants to be a boy.
• 23:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: So there's all these kinds of different tropes who are some of your POV X-Men characters when you consider this perspective?
• 23:07
  [SPEAKER_05]: For me, for us personally.
• 23:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, a big one for me, but I think it's primarily just because this was the first X-Men comic that I had ever really read and really delved into was weenestonishing.
• 23:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's interesting that that book doesn't necessarily have a POV character like that, even though Kitty is on the team, she's a little older and a little bit more arm not corner and wing kind of take on those tropes a little bit, but god is it so sweet you know and then we got to get like beacon angel later, but also just wow it's so serious.
• 23:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 23:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so my other example was going to be like Angel Salvador, but again, I think the Morrison run is like interested in Angel as like a device as opposed to as a character necessarily.
• 23:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that so she struggles a little bit as a as a POV character in that sense.
• 24:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it's a, but it's a woman of color who, uh, it resists authority and who has a mutation that makes her kind of undesirable.
• 24:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we already kind of go there.
• 24:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Morrison does a lot of that.
• 24:15
  [SPEAKER_05]: I I kind of have a cop out answer because I didn't come to Xman until I was an adult, but for so this is kind of a cop out and I hated refer to her as such, but Kamala Khan was this for me, like I read.
• 24:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I read.
• 24:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Kamala Khan has been that in the Xman in the last couple years as a newer view.
• 24:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, she has, objectively, was published like that.
• 24:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, like I read G. Willow Wilson's stuff in singles in 2014.
• 24:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: So like that, and like Kamala Khan was my same age.
• 24:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think she was like already in high school at that point.
• 24:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: So she had as like two years on me at that point.
• 24:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like I, so like that was very much my entry point of being like this is a character who is doesn't look like me at all.
• 24:58
  [SPEAKER_05]: Does not have the same life experiences as me at all.
• 24:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: but I am still understanding the world through Kamala and through the way that like she is growing up and her struggles with her friends and with her family and with what she wants to be doing in life, which is simultaneously being a superhero and also writing Wolverine fan fiction.
• 25:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: I didn't really want to be a superhero, but then I was going to write Wolverine fan fiction.
• 25:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: So I was like, I get this girl.
• 25:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: I understand which she's all about and that like her journey through everything.
• 25:32
  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, even up till now, I she's like my friend.
• 25:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: I worry about now.
• 25:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, weird realization though.
• 25:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: This has been Marvel Comics from the beginning.
• 25:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: It depends on the perspective you're reading I'm a Darrywik, the perspective of Bucky or Cap or the Red Skull or you're reading from the perspective of Peter Parker or the Green Goblin You know Franklin Richards though is a very key one in that he's born early.
• 25:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have an entire huge academic panel on Franklin Richards
• 25:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: We explore a lot of these cards that's because it's a kid with imagination god powers and I just see all those there and Molly laser It's probably for like we're all talking about that on that panel if you haven't heard it I'd highly recommend it But we also go to the X-Men where initially they're called the strangest teens of all that's their initial origin
• 26:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Marvel later, as you go through the line, they don't like adding children to the mix, because they age so slowly at a time of sliding time scale, but we've got the power pack in the 1980s, which is a whole generation of comic readers looking at this from the lens of these little children, and that intersects.
• 26:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Men, you see Wolverine, and a rescue Katie Power from the more lockmaster, while Arty and Leach are getting yanked out of the piles of corpses, you know?
• 26:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: So this this piled hood in the middle of it all is really interesting.
• 26:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Eric Cartman, Bart Simpson.
• 26:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Malcolm, go on.
• 26:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 26:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Kevin McAllis, Stephen, home alone.
• 26:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, we can go on and on and on here.
• 26:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 26:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think it's just super interesting that it's been archetypal of, I think it's interesting that it's like, I never thought of that as sort of, yeah, archetypal from like the beginning of comics and even going even farther back than something like a, like a Bucky Barnes, like going all the way back to even something like,
• 27:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you could go all the way back to I'm going to take it to a place that Morgan would always love to go of like 10 10 is like a, you know, precocious young man who is like going on adventures.
• 27:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: His adventures are not necessarily like imaginative, but this is like, this has always been yeah, this has always been like an archetypal element of, you know, the stories that we're always kind of seen as being for children.
• 27:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think as the imagined comic reader has gotten older, we've sort of started to phase these concepts out more and more.
• 27:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think that's a real reason why we're losing the team if we're being completely honest.
• 27:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: Is like, yeah, if we, if you want to do the historiography of it, like, these are, like, the comic strip was designed for, like, children and newspapers.
• 27:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: And so it was, but it's primarily designed for little boys.
• 27:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, and so I think that's why you get all of these kind of, like, little boy characters.
• 28:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 28:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, but also you get the hoxers that we talked about earlier with the bringing more people creators and the 70s were largely kids that had read the 60s comics who went back and then wanted to tell stories.
• 28:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: And here we are three smart grownups talking about little kids stuff, right?
• 28:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is where the comics are as about.
• 28:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's about innocence.
• 28:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's about adventure and imagination.
• 28:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's about superhero fist to cuffs.
• 28:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: But there's a heart to all of it at the end of the day.
• 28:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: What are we fighting for?
• 28:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Who are we punching?
• 28:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Where do we draw the lines?
• 28:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now let's jump into the world of Gus B's or because there's a difference between telling stories for kids versus telling stories for teens and as the father of two children, I'm going to use my youngest as an example, they have always found this type of book to be hilarious from whatever age perspective they are at.
• 28:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: They wanted to watch the adventures of earthworm growing up.
• 28:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: They wanted to read dog man.
• 28:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: They wanted to watch the stuff about the bizarre, it-key, weird humor.
• 29:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Teen Titans go was a favorite of theirs.
• 29:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: It kind of hits all the different perspectives.
• 29:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: We take superheroes and we give like little kid versions of them and then we sell those to our children, right?
• 29:10
  [SPEAKER_05]: Spidey and his amazing friends.
• 29:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right, or even more recently, we have a new 10-year-old Spider-Boy running around.
• 29:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Bailey Briggs is a full comment.
• 29:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
• 29:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's not about me.
• 29:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Good.
• 29:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's the same types of concepts over and over.
• 29:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's really what our comics are about at the end of the day.
• 29:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: But they're also about prejudice and racism and capitalism.
• 29:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And like all of the other things that we can weave into the narrative.
• 29:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to jump into the world of Gus Beezer.
• 29:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to be silly and serious at the same time.
• 29:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Gus Beezer always the fuck out of me.
• 29:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let me say that for that.
• 29:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't like how he's drawn like how he behaves we see we see a lot of use of like their stories going on and then like revenge fantasies and like little comic strips off to the site it's like they're trying to capture the diary of a wimpy kid format and a comic book form
• 29:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: But it's in really big, blocky, like Saturday morning, cartoon art style energy.
• 30:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I gave this phone as the writer of this book.
• 30:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: And Gail was known for doing Deadpool at the time.
• 30:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then we have an artist named Jason Lepko, who's stepping in on all four of these books.
• 30:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll under the editor editing of, I've never met Mike, but I understand he was a great editor.
• 30:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: Mike Rake does the person putting together this project.
• 30:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: So Marvel also had a line of like Franklin Richards comics if you guys have seen any of those where it did having the crazy adventures.
• 30:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they also have a lot of like many Marvels and like Crisilliopolis or Fred Hemberg doing like little kid versions, got the X-baby's awesome to this.
• 30:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: I was waiting for you to talk about X-baby's and not the babies.
• 30:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: I was right there.
• 30:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have done an ex-baby's episode, and we're recently won on the BAMFs, and we talk a little bit more about the big and version of all this.
• 30:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Dean, can you see yourself in Gus Beezer?
• 30:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: No.
• 30:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: decidedly no.
• 30:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was like, I appreciate that you brought up this sort of Deadpool energy that I think this book specifically has because it's like, when you're actually even reading the physical comic book, I wish I was able to read this physically because it's the actual story above and then this sort of like mini story that Gus is telling down below.
• 31:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: I
• 31:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think I'm way too analytical and to in my own head, to enjoy it, to identify with or particularly enjoy a character like Gus, but I mean again, I think that's because I'm now so far removed from being, you know, an estimated what's seven, eight year old maybe that he is that I have grown so far removed from that.
• 31:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I try really hard to enjoy whatever I'm reading and I try really hard to lean into like, okay, if this is written for like eight-year-old me, can I read it, it's eight-year-old me, it's hard for me to do this with this book.
• 31:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is exactly how I feel.
• 31:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: We've prepared for lots of fart jokes, lots of like naughty children, lots of like, oh my god, girls, lots of like fat shaming, lots of silly play acting, there's a charm to it, but also it's just, it's annoying, it's fucked to me.
• 32:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: I did not expect that I was going to be like a little bit more on the pro side.
• 32:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think that the charm is what's weighing is is what's this over for me There's a lot of stuff that is not working.
• 32:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: I have gone on the record and said I am not a huge fan of Gail Simone's writing She's lovely.
• 32:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: She's she's a very lovely individual and I appreciate everything that she has done for the medium most the time doesn't work for me
• 32:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is one of these cases, but I think the concept is worth mining.
• 32:36
  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, we just did all this precursor stuff.
• 32:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: And I also kind of like the art.
• 32:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: I like that it looks like it's colored pencils.
• 32:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm really charmed by that in like a tactile sense.
• 32:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we're this animated.
• 32:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think we'd be leaning into tea titans go fairly odd parents kind of energy.
• 32:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's going to be a lot of extreme close-ups.
• 32:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's going to be a lot of weird fucking humor.
• 32:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's going to be silly things happening to the more straight-laced characters.
• 33:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, if Cyclops was in this, it'd just be hijinks against Cyclops all the time, because Cyclops, Robin from tea titans go.
• 33:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Gus Beezer is the problem.
• 33:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's kind of like, more...
• 33:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of like new to the animated series.
• 33:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's the Calvin character.
• 33:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they very largely seem to be capitalizing on Calvin when creating this design.
• 33:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: No, he just, he is, he looks like Calvin.
• 33:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: He is Calvin.
• 33:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: He acts like Calvin.
• 33:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to describe the appearance of Gus Bizarre for us, Morgan?
• 33:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so he's got a very it's very cartoony right.
• 33:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a very like almost Disney house style kind of like face shape to him.
• 33:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: Where he's he's very oval.
• 33:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's very tune.
• 33:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: His eyes are way too fucking big for his head.
• 33:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: And everything's kind of why he doesn't want to be speaking as a parent of young children these days.
• 33:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: All these characters like Disney have like the eyes are like two thirds of their fucking ass.
• 33:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's it's it's
• 33:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: Listen, I've got a degree in animation here.
• 33:56
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's bad.
• 33:57
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm aware, but he's not these buck teeth.
• 34:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: He's the fairly odd parents of the great comp, because he also he really looks like Timmy Turner from the Family Odd Parents, because he also has this like like a full-on like main of hair, like a, it's cloth and he's hair, he's doing uh, he's
• 34:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, it's Johnny Bravo, but not styled and like Johnny Bravo gets a pass any day.
• 34:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: That's my feminist king, but like that's not what that's always happening here.
• 34:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: He looks like a little boy from this era.
• 34:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: If you if I just like showed somebody any panel from this comic and said, give me what decade do you think this was published and they would immediately say the two thousands everything about this tells me that it was written in 2003.
• 34:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's giving Dekster's laboratory.
• 34:44
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's very determined.
• 34:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: It's exactly the same.
• 34:46
  [SPEAKER_05]: I know it's going to invoke that man, but.
• 34:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: OK, so Gus isn't established character in the Marvel universe.
• 34:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, he exists in the 616, at least according to the handbook guys.
• 34:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not a different.
• 34:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I used to write on the handbooks.
• 34:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, we're going to if you did not know them.
• 34:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no.
• 34:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: The ability to recognize where he fits into the scheme of things.
• 35:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: I do not feel like these books are canon in any way possible.
• 35:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: However, wouldn't that be so funny if it was, though?
• 35:11
  [SPEAKER_05]: I love imagining new side quests for Wolverine, so I love that I loved that this could be one.
• 35:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think Logan should just get to, like, he famously hates little boys, but I think it'd be really funny if he's like, that's a wild statement.
• 35:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I might prefer duped to Gus Beezer, and that's saying a lot.
• 35:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's a character we don't have to get into.
• 35:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: No, we're going to leave that right there.
• 35:33
  [SPEAKER_05]: That suitcase is staying on path.
• 35:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: And actually, it's not even going to get claimed to baggage.
• 35:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: The lot.
• 35:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 35:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: So Gus Beezer is a character.
• 35:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's full one shots.
• 35:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Two of them are named after Spider-Man.
• 35:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: One of them is named after the Hulk.
• 35:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then the closing one is Gus Beezer meets the X-Men or with the X-Men depending on how you read it.
• 35:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: On the cover, we've got Wolverine and a low-cut leather shirt holding Gus up by the back of his shirt.
• 35:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: He, it's not with claws.
• 35:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's just holding him like he's like a scum jump did.
• 35:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: But this would fucking choke this child, the way he's holding that shirt.
• 36:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: And Gus, I'm not going to do this through the whole episode.
• 36:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm going to give you the first panel of dialogue from Gus in the voice that I imagined Gus would have in the anime.
• 36:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: I was, I was hoping that you would be.
• 36:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I can't wait.
• 36:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm only going to do this once because I just refused.
• 36:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, X-Fans, boy, are you in for a cool story in about mutants and hamsters and brownies?
• 36:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And well, I'd better not give in a way any of the sensational surprises in this issue.
• 36:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, I'm Gus Beezer and welcome to my comic.
• 36:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Normally, I only get to read about mutants in my comics.
• 36:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have the best coolest collection of crazy comics in my whole town, but this adventure has real mutants in it.
• 36:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: One of those mutants I'm talking about happens to be the guy holding me up.
• 36:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: His name is Wolverine.
• 36:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're great pals.
• 36:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's on this comic too, so try it out to upset him any and just enjoy the book, okay?
• 36:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's a lot.
• 36:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 36:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: incredible performance.
• 36:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
• 36:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: You took a sacrifice.
• 36:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: We did a sacrifice for us.
• 36:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: So this child has Legion hair kind of.
• 37:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 37:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's exactly how I describe it.
• 37:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Foracles, but teeth, the huge fucking ears you've ever seen.
• 37:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 37:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we open on the X-Men in the training.
• 37:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: room in a story called X marks the mutant.
• 37:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Every page goes between the main story and then underneath Gus's little comic strip adventures.
• 37:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's a little bit jarring.
• 37:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Did you want to tell us about the opening pages about the X men in the training room?
• 37:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Except does not the X men at all.
• 37:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think the page split is a very specific thing that I was so fascinated by because the page split, especially on that first page, which I have in front of me, says you should read the actual story that is on the top half of the page and then once you finish that go back to the beginning and read the story on the lower half.
• 37:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: So it's interesting that they don't structure it like having a B story and an A story or like a backup story.
• 38:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think, but the opening is the X-Men training in what appears to be the danger room and then one of the characters sort of breaks the fourth wall.
• 38:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's revealed that this is actually just a group of children led by Gus who has cast himself as Wolverine playing pretend about the X-Men.
• 38:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Even though, this is the theory that the actual one also exists here.
• 38:24
  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, the kid is right of all of us.
• 38:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is the little kids, the whole thing.
• 38:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: The little girl was like, oh no, Magneto has me and his magnetic grasp.
• 38:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And his cyclops help and the other kid with the visors is like, I thought I was waterclops, like, just little kids playing and someone's got to be Magneto and like no one wants to be cyclops.
• 38:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: But when we pan out, they're all just wearing like,
• 38:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sheets and like calendars for hats, very very cute little imagery and then we start to see more into the interior world of Gus Beezer through the show.
• 38:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Morgan, what is Gus's relationship with authority?
• 38:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: That, that.
• 38:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: kind of hates this this is a great he kind of hates them and is also kind of just like good like I still I've flipped through this multiple times and I can't figure out what happened with the hamster somehow like a hamster gets involved and on his teachers head and then it she's wearing a wig I don't what's going on
• 39:17
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but a lot of not true truly irrelevant, but like he does have this like conflicting relationship with authority, which is kind of, I mean, it's much more like a Ralphie or an Eric Cartman than it is a Calvin because like the thing about Calvin and Hobbes is it's like like I said earlier, it's never being presents, Calvin's conflicts with authority are never presented as like this is as like the authority is also wrong.
• 39:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's like he is righteous.
• 39:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like Calvin thinks that he's righteous, but the strip is like so self-aware and it's like, oh, you need to put on your shoes.
• 39:51
  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh my goodness.
• 39:52
  [SPEAKER_05]: In the investigation for how dust is acting, I guess.
• 39:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, my favorite part of this book is something I often see in Calvin and Hobbes and like family circus and other things like that.
• 39:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Where it's thought provoking storytelling to just for kids.
• 40:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think the juxtaposition of what's happening in the main story versus the comic strip on each page is where the beauty of this story lies.
• 40:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like we all progress picturing himself
• 40:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Everything is burning, all the cars are crashing, and I have to save it all.
• 40:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Look at everyone, all the Marvel kid can save us, but then when the teacher gets involved, suddenly he has to take out the garbage with his dog and everything's boring.
• 40:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: And he just wants to fly away as a superhero again.
• 40:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: So you're watching him kind of wrestle with responsibility,
• 40:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's been a naughty kid, he has two sisters at home and they're all right, everybody's socks and he's throwing Brussels sprouts and he's in trouble all the time but in his imagination he gets to go be whatever he wants and fight his archvillant which is a giant version of his baby sister Tilly so there's a precise baby stomping around and that part is cute.
• 40:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: He also has a dog named Zabu but in the superhero imagination world, Zabu is most of all dog.
• 40:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: because we want to press it now.
• 41:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is Reptar.
• 41:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.
• 41:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: I appreciate the fact that this is a sort of interesting way to have the comic Break the Fourth Wall, because like in the actual story that the above section is telling except for in that first page, Gus is never turning to the audience and like talking to the audience, but this is a way that we can have Gail Simone who again, like you said, was writing Deadpool at the time, also do a sort of turn to camera, like talk to the reader about what they are
• 41:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: So giant baby tilly as like a classic example of a sort of villain archetype, but particularly in that sort of imagined world of being a young boy where you're like my baby sister is both the like most annoying thing in the world, but is also ultimately like harmless and this is like it's growing her to like massive size suddenly like is an easy villain for a child to conceive.
• 41:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: So Gus gets a trouble for acting up at dinner.
• 41:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: He sent to his room and in his room he pictures himself as Wolverine.
• 42:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Clause out attacking a pizza man because he's hungry, but Wolverine's adventures are interrupted by Gus's mom walks in the room.
• 42:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: And this is my favorite part.
• 42:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's in Lake of a Lady Magneto costume.
• 42:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you very much.
• 42:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's like the parental figure for Wolverine as like baby Tilly's stomping around, just causing chaos.
• 42:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Tilly messes up Gus's room, but he has to clean it up himself.
• 42:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Gus goes back to school and he's interacting with his friends and the teacher lost her wig because of the hamster.
• 42:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: And now she has to wear a blue hat, she's so mad.
• 42:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's in trouble everywhere, no, but he understands him and every time his mind gets to wander.
• 42:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's suddenly firing jet planes.
• 42:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: This child has really, really terrible ADHD.
• 42:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: But then the real X men show up.
• 42:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: We have, I do just want, he does kind of call the cops on himself.
• 42:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no.
• 42:50
  [SPEAKER_05]: I just, I know you were evangelizing dogmen earlier, but like, you know, well, he calls the cops because he thinks he might be a mutant.
• 42:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's like, hey, do you guys, you guys need help?
• 43:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I can be a superhero.
• 43:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: I could go be up some super villains.
• 43:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 43:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm sure you could, I'm sure you could seven year old.
• 43:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: So the X-Men show up in Lawrence and ERA costumes.
• 43:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: We've got Professor X Wolverine, Jean with the shortest red hair, which is... What is this?
• 43:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Among the most bizarre looks she's ever had.
• 43:19
  [SPEAKER_05]: I hate when people draw Jean like she's Rachel.
• 43:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is a Rachel Summers haircut for sure.
• 43:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: This is a great, this is stop coming for Rachel's bag.
• 43:28
  [SPEAKER_05]: We've your daughter out of this.
• 43:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: But Gus, well, Jean did have short hair in the age of apocalypse, but this is not that Jean, uh, no.
• 43:35
  [SPEAKER_05]: Also, she's wearing like an apron.
• 43:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: Look, what is this?
• 43:37
  [SPEAKER_05]: What is this fit?
• 43:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Gus is quite confident.
• 43:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: He is, uh, he is a mutant.
• 43:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: We get another scene with him out at recess and boy, do I understand this?
• 43:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: I used to table at Comic-Con's as a handbook guy.
• 43:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: This little
• 43:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: I read your play basically your superhero script and he's like, but you got lots of things wrong there Airors for example, you were using spoons for Wolverine's claws and they weren't even Adam Antium spoons in the real Cyclops Doesn't have a 3D viewer tape to us.
• 44:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's the people who just take a wish of looking at you
• 44:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Gus, please, somebody that we've all interacted with in some capacity at anywhere, probably, but especially on the internet.
• 44:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: But also I am that person.
• 44:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, it's just like, you learn decorum at some point.
• 44:25
  [SPEAKER_05]: You learn to be like, right.
• 44:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't care what they do.
• 44:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Gus makes a little a little board of like you might be a mutant if number one laser beam shoot out of your freaky sunglasses number two You have claws and you are not a bear number three.
• 44:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know your teachers going to say stops stop daydreaming dust before she even says it number four.
• 44:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: You look like a weirdo and aren't even a teenager.
• 44:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Number five.
• 44:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Spoon stick to your forehead.
• 44:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Number six.
• 44:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: You are an African wind goddess who can fly and stuff.
• 44:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love that this is the list.
• 44:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Number seven, you look like Captain the card.
• 44:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: Favorite thing?
• 45:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Loved, I was very specific thing for more than to look like Captain the card.
• 45:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: You can see, I just realized that this is boy, I'm not in frame for me, for you.
• 45:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh no, I can see.
• 45:13
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I just genuinely like love this panel though.
• 45:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'd like if this is the thing about the art that I'd like is that like you can still see the reference lines like there's something that's kind of still like sketchy about it.
• 45:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's something that feels very As we're talking about this I'm becoming more charming by this I will I will fully admit the reading it on my own talking about it makes the difference.
• 45:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Gus, Gus, please just cleanse a little bit more.
• 45:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: He goes home.
• 45:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's brownies.
• 45:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: He has chores, and while he's reading comics, his friends are like, So what's a Sentinel?
• 45:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, Oh, yeah, those guys are awful, but the X-Men will beat him up.
• 45:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then he turns around and short hair gene gray Cyclops, and Professor X are in his room.
• 45:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's like, I knew it.
• 45:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I knew I was a mutant.
• 45:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I knew I was special.
• 45:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Should I pack my hope to have my homework, my toothbrush?
• 45:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Can I bring my dog?
• 46:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: And, uh, the
• 46:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we jump to the next couple of pages where Professor X has to very carefully inform us that actually you're not a mutant, you're not the special one, it's your baby sister that you fucking hate, it's a mutant and we're just checking on her.
• 46:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is devastating, this is childhood destroyed, Professor X ruined and killed, ruined and kids child, that's what it is.
• 46:27
  [SPEAKER_04]: And he's not even kidnapping the kid.
• 46:29
  [SPEAKER_04]: It also be fine if his professor is kidnapped after.
• 46:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: But this is right.
• 46:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: A little bit of a genus because Gayle knows who she's writing for.
• 46:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Every child knows this feeling.
• 46:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like I want to be special.
• 46:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: But then you realize with that harsh truth of reality sets in.
• 46:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, and again, I think that is that is such a good and clear and easy, because this comes towards the end of the comic.
• 46:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's such a clear and easy punch line for them to set up.
• 46:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: So he's so quickly that Simone sets up that, of course, Gus gets to live his wildest fantasy only for it to all come crashing down immediately, which is so archetypal of those like newspaper comics that we have been invoking constantly and then throughout it.
• 47:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's interesting.
• 47:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: and maybe it's because she is like an infant, but it's interesting that they like give Tilly the choice on whether or not to go.
• 47:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Famously Charles is not super big on giving parents the choice to let their kids go or gene especially.
• 47:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: So which I found very funny.
• 47:29
  [SPEAKER_04]: Call me Xavier's over here.
• 47:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: The way this concludes is I have to watch for my little sister.
• 47:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm supposed to be here to support.
• 47:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: and he gets a goodbye.
• 47:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: He gets to go out and see the ex jet.
• 47:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: We see Wolverine give him a jacket to be an honorary ex-man, even though he's not a jerk.
• 47:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then we have my least favorite panel in this whole thing.
• 47:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're Gene Kisses him on the cheek and his eyes go into hearts and he says,
• 47:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I agree, and I'll leave it at the hat.
• 48:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then we end, Gus goes back after the X-Men leave.
• 48:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Pick us up the phone and says, Hello, police?
• 48:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 48:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 48:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm calling him out my sister.
• 48:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: See, she's this really powerful mutant.
• 48:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: How do I know?
• 48:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, she can mess up my room in two seconds flat.
• 48:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: She can steal my dessert from across the room.
• 48:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, don't you have any sentinels or something to just come and take her for just like a day?
• 48:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: No.
• 48:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: What kind of police station is this?
• 48:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, she's telling.
• 48:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Guess I better just learn to get used to you.
• 48:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Tilly diaper stinky, guys stinky, guys changed this stinky lololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololol
• 48:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and it's one of these things where it's like, and I don't think that this would I certainly don't think in in 2026, we'd ever find any reason to revisit this character, though I did discover that there is a version of him in the ultimate universe, that has like one single character.
• 49:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, at 1610, not the currently writing.
• 49:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay.
• 49:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's the same.
• 49:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: But the ultimate is being published at this time.
• 49:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, but please proceed.
• 49:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
• 49:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and so there's like, he has like one single appearance in one version of an ultimate story.
• 49:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is like, when I was doing my wiki dive to kind of make sure that I was reading everything that I was going to need to read for today, I discovered that I couldn't find the one ultimate appearance.
• 49:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: Though I'm sure I could by doing a little bit of digging.
• 49:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: But I think it's
• 49:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: interesting that it's, I can't find a place for this character in any way, either within or without, like modern 616 canon.
• 49:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: So in the ultimate universe, it's an ultimate Spider-Man 93 in 2006.
• 49:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, this is just, it's, there's no correlation at all.
• 49:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Gus Beezer is hired by Mojo Adams as a host for a reality show where mutants are being killed.
• 50:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: He has two appearances.
• 50:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's a full grown-up.
• 50:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's a full grown-up.
• 50:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's blonde and it's like a Wolverine spider-man team up.
• 50:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, all right.
• 50:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sure, why not?
• 50:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: I may have to, I may have to hunt that down.
• 50:15
  [SPEAKER_04]: No, you don't need that.
• 50:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: You don't need it.
• 50:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: In May of 1990.
• 50:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Kirk, you see it, because one of my all-time favorites, does a backup story in Avengers annual number 19.
• 50:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: For those of you that contract this down, go look at it.
• 50:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a backup story.
• 50:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's about a little guy named Hueby Green.
• 50:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: who is a huge superhero fan.
• 50:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Everything is action figures and toys and posters, and he gets to meet the real Avengers, but the reason he does is because the Avengers are there to beat up the sons of the serpent, who are the racist, mother fuckers, the dressed like snakes, and huge, huge, huge older brother Lucas is one of the sons of the serpent.
• 50:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: So there's a few heroes, they beat up his brother, and at the end he's just like, oh, like it's like his childhood's been lost.
• 50:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a brilliant story, just a one-time appearance of hubi-green if you want to go look that up.
• 51:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, how are we feeling about Gus Beezer?
• 51:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think that this character is of of a time and of his time, I would say a little bit too much to be able to reasonably come back.
• 51:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you never know, Gil Simone is actively writing the X-Men right now.
• 51:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: We could wake up tomorrow and there's an announcement that Gus Beezer is making some grand return in uncanny X-Men for a single appearance, but I think ultimately by nature of kind of the character and also specifically sort of what the character is riffing on.
• 51:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's somebody that we can leave in the past, but I'm happy that these stories exist, I suppose.
• 51:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's interesting because I read the other, I read the other three stories that are in this sort of title.
• 51:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: And they all kind of follow the exact same archetype, which is that like he is imagining, essentially, yeah, a Calvin and Hobbs plot is playing outside of his imagination, but within his imagination, it's a Marvel comic, which is like an interesting contrast, but ultimately,
• 52:04
  [SPEAKER_05]: Do you put Gus B's or in horse girl in our room together and you, I, there will be horse girl this cow for for your reference.
• 52:12
  [SPEAKER_05]: And it's for all, uh, she doesn't have a name.
• 52:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: So March, Archon, my show is, uh, is all about gimmicks.
• 52:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: April, I'm a show is take out boys.
• 52:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm going to talk about it.
• 52:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I do, I do character episodes over on my Patreon.
• 52:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you've ever heard one, I put them out on the main show later.
• 52:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm going to be doing four cowboy themed X-Men characters.
• 52:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing Calacan, like Gil Simone, but I'm also doing Outlaw, who Gail was writing in Deadpool in Agent X during the same era as Gus Beezer.
• 52:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: So there's a lot of days to the month, it's coming next month, everyone.
• 52:43
  [SPEAKER_05]: Everyone subscribe to the great mouth and Patreon to hear horse girl, I guess.
• 52:48
  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, this really made me think of, I deem you might have watched this and I doubt it if you have China.
• 52:53
  [SPEAKER_05]: Have you ever seen the thinniest and firm mission marvel special?
• 52:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm not even thinniest and firm, but I haven't seen this special.
• 53:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: So I don't I don't know if it plays in sequence on dizzy plus or if it's like a separate thing, but it was a crossover episode with the cast of face and verb and whatever I don't think it was the Avengers or smidiest heroes version, but some whatever animated Avengers show was on dizzy at that time.
• 53:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: It plays very similar to this, where it is just like, and I mean, I guess in finises for it is incontinuity.
• 53:29
  [SPEAKER_05]: So do without you.
• 53:30
  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, because the only episode that a finises for that is not incontinuity is the Star Wars episode, a night of the living vampire of that of the living pharmacists.
• 53:38
  [SPEAKER_05]: I've got that on brain.
• 53:39
  [SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, the way it's fair isn't for doing the Phoenies and for like plot to help save the Avengers and to help like they're they're going to fight with the Avengers so that like they can save the day and do pinchbirds is like teamed up with Motoc, which is a great pair.
• 53:55
  [SPEAKER_05]: Because talk about YouTube super balloons that can't get anything done together But it's very similar to this except it's been used in verbs, so there's like a real heart to it where it's like Oh, hey, like we've we're big fans of you guys of the Avengers and the Avengers So like we know about you guys being used and ferv will you help us like defeat this defeat mode on can save the day and like they do But they don't like and they don't like become superheroes and in the end They're just kind of like Spider-Man call us whenever it's
• 54:21
  [SPEAKER_05]: And it kind of plays out very similar, but I think it's a much better version of this concept of it's like having your weirdo pids that are like thinking about super heroes and like idolize them to some capacity, like meet your heroes and still get to like have a grandal adventure about it.
• 54:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, here's where we're going to close.
• 54:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Here's the crazy thing that we're not taking time to realize.
• 54:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: There is a canon mutant out there.
• 54:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Her name is Tilly Beezer, the X-Men tractor with cerebral, what are her mutant powers?
• 54:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: And did they manifest?
• 54:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Did they manifest when she was a baby?
• 54:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think there's two theories here.
• 54:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Number one, Gus is like, my sister's moving on.
• 54:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: I should in my room.
• 54:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't feel safe.
• 54:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's something wrong.
• 55:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm calling it police.
• 55:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Gus is the hero because Tilly is a little monster.
• 55:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: number two, maybe her superhero name is simply going to be poopy pants because she wants to just she's a diaper filler and we see her reference at multiple times.
• 55:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Or maybe giant tilly is actually her mutant power.
• 55:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe the baby grows into the giant size is what she actually is.
• 55:24
  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm to see her big jack jack in the Incredibles hidden right in plain sight.
• 55:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do we have thoughts on
• 55:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's the, that's the pull that Gail might do for some reason in, in uncanny.
• 55:40
  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, if we had a little bit of a sliding time scale, she could be of age for the rest of those uncanny kids.
• 55:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
• 55:45
  [SPEAKER_05]: So I just whack in those uncanny kids.
• 55:47
  [SPEAKER_05]: I know that there are lots of people who actually do like them.
• 55:49
  [SPEAKER_05]: They do nothing for me.
• 55:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Billy Beezer, I mean, it could just be permanently be a baby.
• 55:54
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, much, much like, well, I guess who's, is there anything that's still permanently a baby?
• 55:59
  [SPEAKER_05]: I imagine just kids have all aged up.
• 56:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Danielle Cage has been like under three for 20 years.
• 56:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's a good one.
• 56:06
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it was a good one.
• 56:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: Like, because they've, because, yeah, this valley and Franklin are like teenagers now.
• 56:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you've been aged up and down so many times.
• 56:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, she'll go with she'll a baby But you know, she'll go so baby.
• 56:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: She'll go as a dragon now.
• 56:22
  [SPEAKER_05]: She's a dragon now, which is an excellent choice Yeah, she'll go so much fun and in dragon land with his two gay ons he gets to do that forever
• 56:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love making this show.
• 56:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love giving deep thought to nerdy things and I love making new friends So what an excellent way to spend this Sunday morning.
• 56:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're recording this at the end of beginning of February Everybody We'll not completely end of March and who knows what's fucking happening in the world right now So please make sure you're taking care of yourselves and creation of art enjoy and thinking is One of my ways of fighting back.
• 56:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm always thrilled to have new friends here to do that with me It's great to see you both get to know you better and I can't wait to hang out again
• 56:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Any final thoughts, where can people find you online?
• 56:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Anything you want to plug for March, 2026.
• 57:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Follow the show at Grimalk and Under Score Lane on Instagram.
• 57:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Most readily, that's where I am most active online.
• 57:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: The theme on the show coming into April is gay cowboys.
• 57:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: So we're going to open up with a script read from the Avengers Adventures in the Old West.
• 57:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: wouldn't be just part of the team.
• 57:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's all kinds of gay cowboys shenanigans going on.
• 57:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to end the month of April with the trial of the raw-hide kid, the family queer cowboys.
• 57:26
  [SPEAKER_04]: So the, uh, you know, Charlie Storm!
• 57:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: So you can find us.
• 57:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: The podcast is called Mutant Studies 101.
• 57:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: You can find us on Instagram and TikTok in theory at Mutant Studies 101.
• 57:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: You can find us on Twitter at mutant studies pod.
• 57:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: You can go to mutant studies 101.tumblr.com.
• 57:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: where working maintains all of our wonderful, all of our wonderful notes and citations and transcripts for all of our episodes.
• 57:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: And if you are curious about any of our thoughts, you can send us an email at mutinstudiespod at gmail.com.
• 58:00
  [SPEAKER_05]: Wow, you took that so well, I'm so proud of you.
• 58:03
  [SPEAKER_05]: I am at Beaker Barnes, anywhere in everywhere.
• 58:05
  [SPEAKER_05]: Dean, you can't find anywhere.
• 58:08
  [SPEAKER_05]: But if you come all over to our podcast feed, we're probably talking about magic, I think, that's what we have.
• 58:14
  [SPEAKER_05]: I think that's what our plan is for first.
• 58:16
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, so I think what we should have just released an episode about the magic mini series.
• 58:20
  [SPEAKER_05]: If you liked this episode, we do this all the time.
• 58:23
  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think that's our that's our spiel.
• 58:26
  [SPEAKER_05]: Alright, friends, it's wonderful.
• 58:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for coming on.
• 58:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, Chad, no, it was wonderful.
• 58:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks everybody for listening.
• 58:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hope you're learning things smiling and having fun.
• 58:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's what we're here for and we'll see you all back here next time.
• 58:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: week and now stay tuned for some thoughts on fascism as a special guest tonight talked about a red skull story and its modern applications.
• 58:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: When Jews were forced into ghettos across occupied Europe beginning in 1939, clothing became one of the earliest tools of control.
• 58:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: In Poland, German authorities required Jews over a certain age to wear white arm bands, bearing a blue star of David's
• 59:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: In the general government, and later throughout much of occupied Europe, this evolved into the mandatory Yellow Star at David, sewn visibly onto outer garments.
• 59:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: The symbol had deep historical roots in Jewish identity, but the Nazis repurposed it as a mark of exclusion and humiliation, even as they pushed their own things like the swastika and the German eagle forward.
• 59:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: By isolating Jews visually in public spaces, the regime made discrimination immediate and enforceable.
• 59:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: people could be identified, barred from shops, beaten or arrested on site.
• 59:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: The badge system also reinforced the idea that Jews were a separate and inferior category within society.
• 59:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we've talked about this before, but what it meant to be Jewish could come down to as simple as this pigmentation of skin or even a drop of Jewish blood in your heritage.
• 59:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Inside concentration camps, the marking system expanded into a complex hierarchy of colored cloth triangles, sewn on two prisoners' uniforms.
• 59:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: The basic camp uniform was a striped jacket and trousers, often ill-fitting and reused, but the triangle system distinguished why someone had been imprisoned.
• 1:00:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: A yellow triangle identified Jews, when combined with another triangle, it formed a six-pointed star indicating both Jewish identity and some other classification.
• 1:00:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: A red triangle marked political prisoners, including communists and social democrats.
• 1:00:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Green-signified criminal prisoners, purple identified Juhhova's witnesses who were persecuted for refusing military service and loyalty oaths.
• 1:00:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Black triangles were used for those labeled a social, a vague category that it could include Roma, the homeless sex workers, and other people deemed socially undesirable.
• 1:00:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And one of the most enduring symbols in the queer community to emerge from this system was the pink triangle.
• 1:00:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was assigned to men imprisoned under paragraph 175, the German law criminalizing male homosexuality specifically.
• 1:00:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Those marked with the pink triangle were often treated with particular brutality by guards and sometimes other prisoners.
• 1:00:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: The triangle system was bureaucratic in design, but devastating in practice, turning human identity into a visible code.
• 1:01:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: It allowed guards to organize labor assignments, impose differential punishments, and reinforce ideological hierarchies inside the camps.
• 1:01:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Badges could include letters indicating nationality, as well, further fragmenting prisoners into categories.
• 1:01:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: After the liberation, some of these symbols took on new meanings.
• 1:01:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: The Yellow Star remains widely recognized as a symbol of Jewish persecution under Nazi rule.
• 1:01:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: The pink triangle reclaimed in the late 20th century by LGBTQ activists became a symbol of resistance and remembrance, especially during the AIDS crisis.
• 1:01:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Museums and memorials today display the triangle badges to illustrate how the regime systemized dehumanization.
• 1:01:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: but began as pieces of cloth stitched into prison uniforms, functioned as a tool of social sorting, ideological labeling, and state terror, reducing individuals to symbols before they were reduced by numbers.
• 1:01:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now we're gonna jump back into the heavy storyline.
• 1:01:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: We've been covering an uncanny Avengers.
• 1:01:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: The Red School has taken the brain of Charles Xavier and is doing crazy shit all over the place.
• 1:02:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: In issue number seven, hate crimes have become spreading in the Red Skulls name, mutants are killed.
• 1:02:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: In the Red Skulls, and Red Skulls faces are painted onto the victims.
• 1:02:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Rogue notes in one very special plate page.
• 1:02:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: We don't take this Nazi down soon.
• 1:02:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: A giant butt hole is gonna open in the sky and don't bad times on everyone.
• 1:02:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Rogue all is as a way with words.
• 1:02:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: In issue 12, we see the dystopian future of the apocalypse twins.
• 1:02:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: The children of Archangel and Ishizumi.
• 1:02:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're in an internment camp created by the Red Skull and it just looks like there's shitty places we've been talking about from World War II.
• 1:02:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is where the daughter of Wasp and Havik is born, the Katie Summers in this future.
• 1:02:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Giant Red Skull faced sentinel stand over the camp, Ahab and his hands are hunting them down, cutting a girl's throat.
• 1:02:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Kang is watching just out of sync with time, wanting to teach these children that he has plans for.
• 1:02:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: What's going to happen when he doesn't aid them?
• 1:02:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's jump to Issue 23.
• 1:02:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're now back in our timeline.
• 1:02:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: The Red School is working with Arnhem Zola and Ahab as he prepares to launch all-out war on mutants.
• 1:03:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they've built a concentration camp together in Genocia, the site of the Genocia massacre under Cassandra Nova just years before.
• 1:03:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Red School sends his S-Men to apprehend the Avengers Unity Division.
• 1:03:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: In the camp, everyone is dressed in white as the loudspeaker broadcasts a message.
• 1:03:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: do not deviate from the path, do not approach the gates.
• 1:03:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Those who obey will be rewarded.
• 1:03:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: The Red Skull is watching you always.
• 1:03:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: There is nothing you think that he doesn't know.
• 1:03:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then there's of course a big superhero super villain battle.
• 1:03:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the final one will cover here the series finale of Issue 25 which leads into the access event to follow.
• 1:03:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: The devilish thing about other people is they refuse to conform to the wishes of their
• 1:03:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Fortunately for me, those days of past to the world, we're now bent entirely to my whims, genetic pigs, polluting our world, will be relegated to their appropriate stations, servants of man, the world guided by one hand, mine, and a fine new hand it is.
• 1:03:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: The population is indifferent to the fate of the downtrodden and marginalized, and eminently exploitable aspect of the human condition as we both wear a no, the Red Skull tries making Magneto get on his knees calling him a little pig before the uncanny avengers fight back, and Magneto soon resorts to lethal force after they found a group of mutants being held as experiments.
• 1:04:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Magneto begins beating the shit out of the Red Skull and soon taunts him with
• 1:04:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Charles Xavier never loved you.
• 1:04:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh-oh, the gay relationship implication, he pitted you.
• 1:04:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: A confused man who let his damage to find him incapable of rising above the dirt.
• 1:04:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: Xavier's greatest fear was that he would die, leaving his X-Men to your inept leadership.
• 1:04:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then Magneto crushes the head of the red skull, and this act releases the monster that is the red onslaught.
• 1:04:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because you remember that time, Xavier White Magneto's mind and then it gave birth to a psychic rage baby.
• 1:04:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Somehow, Magneto killing the red skull here has released the worst version of that.
• 1:04:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let me welcome my dear friend Cameron he even to the show to talk about this crazy story with me.
• 1:05:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Cameron, are you a red skull fan my friend?
• 1:05:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Not a fan.
• 1:05:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think I should be supportive of the red skulls activities, but he is incredibly camp.
• 1:05:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Tell me about your experience in reading these kind of scattered issues of the uncanny Avengers.
• 1:05:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is only 10 years old, but this story hits different in 2020, so I'll tell you now.
• 1:05:21
  [SPEAKER_03]: It does, but I'm also, I feel like it came away with a
• 1:05:27
  [SPEAKER_03]: especially like two X-Men and X-Men adjacent characters, Avengers characters that need a little bit more spotlight.
• 1:05:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: I know Erica Schulz is featuring Rogue right now, and who's on the new Rogue book, the Solo Sissue?
• 1:05:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's Erica.
• 1:05:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 1:05:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
• 1:05:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, Rogue has a limited series right now by Erica Schultz and then of course I guess someone's writing her in in uncanny and yeah, yeah, yeah, but wonderful issues to like there being reference today like these Avengers issues and like everything going on with Rogue and the Avengers so good to see you come full circle.
• 1:06:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, had you read these issues before?
• 1:06:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Are you familiar with the uncanny Avengers?
• 1:06:05
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm familiar with the stories, but I haven't read these specific issues, because, yeah, this is funny.
• 1:06:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Controversial storytelling, havoc is in some crazy spots.
• 1:06:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's some cool shit that happens, and it's pretty well written at the end of the day, even though there's some dark themes explored.
• 1:06:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: The apocalypse twins and everything else.
• 1:06:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, these stories out of left field, but once again, super camp, how to love it.
• 1:06:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: What were some of your thoughts on the stories that we saw play out, the concentration camp in genosha, the magneto red skull battle, the mutants being rounded up, like there's so many pieces of this that are just relevant to our X-Men themes, but when you see it in the hands of a Nazi, it hits different.
• 1:06:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I mean, like, just did a black history months of an earlier and the Nazis did pull a lot of their ideologies from American chattel slavery.
• 1:06:51
  [SPEAKER_03]: So seeing this in President Day is kind of world outside your window in an eerie way.
• 1:06:57
  [SPEAKER_03]: Chip Posty thought the was being up to health by our clubs or geez is insane.
• 1:07:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Stay tuned for the very fun trial of Janet Van Dyne coming up on my show in May.
• 1:07:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm very excited.
• 1:07:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: She did nothing wrong.
• 1:07:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love her.
• 1:07:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love my favorite characters.
• 1:07:14
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I never really knew that much about her up until like reading some of these stories.
• 1:07:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: I knew like a lot of the horrible Hank Pim stuff, but and then her appearance in Aunt Man in the Lost, but yeah, it's a tangent you cannot get me on because I won't stop talking.
• 1:07:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I just read all of her appearances in order in the last few months and I love her.
• 1:07:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Were you are you an onslaught fan and what was it like to see the red onslaught?
• 1:07:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: I love the idea of Charles and Eric having a child together like objectively that they hate each other but like this red onslaught thing is Eric's perspective was very me when my boyfriend's a fascist and also for the red skull to be like yeah he never loved you they'd like get over him
• 1:08:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so, okay, so let's look at this story from Magneto's perspective and I'm going to be doing a different one of these conversations on on Magneto and a different one of these recordings because the red school also shows up in the Magneto solo title that's happening at the time.
• 1:08:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but also the red skull who is the concentration camp guy look at Magneto's origins his built the concentration camps in genosa, which is the country that Magneto ran that ultimately failed where the mutant genocide happened and he's brought Magneto's daughter into the mix.
• 1:08:46
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I mean, like, once again, the real world implications of a Romani and a Jewish like family being put in, not put in concentration camps again, but fighting against them, it's really eerie and woke, but in the weirdest ways.
• 1:09:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, these are these are wild stories.
• 1:09:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you had any particularly fun moments that you wanted to point out if anyone just remembers one line from everything today.
• 1:09:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's we don't take this Nazi down soon, a giant.
• 1:09:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: But holes gonna open up in the sky and dump bad times on everyone, which is just so great.
• 1:09:19
  [SPEAKER_03]: One, I sent my friend earlier, it's Wanda, after you visit Nekra's ex-boyfriend, the Grim Reaper, and Wonderman, and she, let me see, I haven't pulled up.
• 1:09:31
  [SPEAKER_03]: I decimated the mutant ranks, led all of them into hiding.
• 1:09:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: They were forced to abandon Xavier's dream just to survive.
• 1:09:38
  [SPEAKER_03]: Wonderman says, you were a puppet, Wanda into Jax, or I wasn't strong enough to fight
• 1:09:50
  [SPEAKER_03]: After watching the Wonderman series and following up with this, like, I'm kind of loving the Wonderman watershed.
• 1:09:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, no, I want to do a Wonderman trial.
• 1:09:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: My list is too long, everyone.
• 1:10:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm the one person at a time, and it's already a lot.
• 1:10:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Cameron, we opened the idea today with a, I talked about clothing and symbology during World War II, and the way that people were forced to portray themselves, and then how dark that gets in the camp.
• 1:10:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: So the pink triangle and its origins, and all of the triangles put on people
• 1:10:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Sex workers to the disabled, to the Romani, to the communists, to the Johova's Witnesses, like it's a, it's a, it's a really dark thing.
• 1:10:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then you think of like the social hierarchies that existed among the prisoners and the camps, like those are painful pieces of our history.
• 1:10:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you have any thoughts on that or how it correlates to our story today.
• 1:10:37
  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, yeah, just seeing this recreated, it's a piece of Holocaust education that you don't really like talk a lot about because at the end of the day, we don't really have solid Holocaust education in public schools and it's really unfortunate because a lot of members of the Jewish community that
• 1:10:54
  [SPEAKER_03]: know are wanting more education especially today with like not to say anti-Semitism doesn't exist but like with the with everything going on in Palestine there is a streak of a lot of people kind of taking out their anti-Semitism and shielding it in this form of activism.
• 1:11:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah and being Jewish of
• 1:11:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: course.
• 1:11:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: We just have to stay out of like a statement.
• 1:11:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a very individual and personal family and historical ideology.
• 1:11:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: The atrocities committed by the government of Israel are separate from so many people.
• 1:11:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Jews Jewish faith specifically, but these stories are still relevant regardless.
• 1:11:30
  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, and there through my work on the local civil rights committee, we found that there is a rise in hate crimes against all populations.
• 1:11:39
  [SPEAKER_03]: But especially like Jewish and Muslim hate crimes have spiked in the year 2024.
• 1:11:43
  [SPEAKER_03]: I believe the data we pulled was from.
• 1:11:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Cameron, I were just talking about the Arabian night episode.
• 1:11:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: I released recently, which covers some of these topics.
• 1:11:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a haddy time to do with it.
• 1:11:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm guessing my Gabrielle Holler episode, we talk about this stuff a little bit more detail.
• 1:11:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, my friend.
• 1:11:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's 2026.
• 1:12:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: How you doing?
• 1:12:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: How you holding up?
• 1:12:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: We got to go to the Palm Springs retreat together, which was such a delicious and wonderful time.
• 1:12:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Our friendship is very solid.
• 1:12:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm grateful to be your friend, but we talked about the days of future past there and like the branding of the am on the mutant eye as kind of an ongoing symbol in our mutant ideology.
• 1:12:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: How are things going for you in 2026?
• 1:12:20
  [SPEAKER_03]: Things are good, extremely busy.
• 1:12:22
  [SPEAKER_03]: My time management needs some work, but recently got elected as Vice Chair of my Civil Rights Committee, also still working with Clifton Against Substance Abuse on Youth Substance Abuse Issues.
• 1:12:35
  [SPEAKER_03]: And just really plugged in in being a member of my community.
• 1:12:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: I do need to remember to be a person a little bit more, but yeah, yeah, you are a tremendously joyful person and you have so much charisma.
• 1:12:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love how you carry your social justice plans and personal aspirations just on your sleeve along with all of your nerdy interests and like unique outlooks and I think you're just a quality human being.
• 1:13:01
  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm very happy to hear.
• 1:13:02
  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and same to you, like the community you're building, especially like a bunch of queer X-Men nerds getting together.
• 1:13:08
  [SPEAKER_03]: I, fat broochad, hasn't shut the hell up since we've been.
• 1:13:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: You guys, last 20 of us basically that we're in Palm Springs together, every day all day for like a couple of months now.
• 1:13:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a group chance, but I love this one.
• 1:13:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: We call it, we call ourselves the Great Legs of Engineers.
• 1:13:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Alright everybody, well hey take care of yourselves up there stay safe we're recording this the other February who knows what is happening in the world between now and release but living joyfully remains an act of defiance so stand up and take care of yourselves we'll see you back here next time for another Red Skull Chat thanks Kevin Father.
• 1:13:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for listening to Grimalk and Lane.
• 1:13:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: We hope you are enjoying this podcast.
• 1:13:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Grimalk and Lane is produced and recorded in Salt Lake City, Utah with music and editing done by my husband, Michael Bell, and promo art done by the incredible Seth Martell.
• 1:14:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Look for us on Patreon, where we are releasing weekly episodes about obscure characters and facts.
• 1:14:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a great way to participate with the podcast for only just a couple of dollars a month and it helps support what we are doing here.
• 1:14:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Also, the best way you could help
• 1:14:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Grimmulkin Lane is by sharing and liking and subscribing, but also please leave us a review wherever you listen to your podcasts.
• 1:14:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll see you back your next time on Grimmulkin Lane.