Latest / Linen Suit & Plastic Tie / MBA Storytelling, AI @ Wharton, & World's Greatest Narcissist - LSPTPod 5-Year Anniversary

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MBA Storytelling, AI @ Wharton, & World's Greatest Narcissist - LSPTPod 5-Year Anniversary · Linen Suit & Plastic Tie

• 0:03
  Hello, how do you do sit down and gather around?
• 0:08
  We've got stories about stories that'll make you a drink of
• 0:13
  wonder. Amnesty could lie, can be dried
• 0:16
  and dressed for the time with the Lin Min suit and blasted by
• 0:24
  Lin Min suit and lasting light. Now here's Goriven Gavin.
• 0:37
  You ready welcome welcome to the linen suit in plastic tie
• 0:42
  podcast. This is the podcast where we
• 0:44
  they set and analyze the amazing, the epic to cool the
• 0:47
  impossibly awesome power storytelling and learn how to
• 0:51
  harness that power in our everyday lives.
• 0:54
  I'm going. And I'm Kevin now.
• 0:57
  How much did you miss saying that?
• 0:59
  I miss it. I I say it every night before
• 1:01
  bed. You don't you just go to bed
• 1:04
  every night and just say welcome, welcome.
• 1:05
  And then as soon as last time the podcast where you we've been
• 1:09
  on hiatus for way too long and we're technically still on
• 1:14
  hiatus, but this is our fifth anniversary.
• 1:16
  We're coming out of hiatus to record a little bit episode, a
• 1:18
  story time to update people what's going on.
• 1:21
  It's all good things, all good things.
• 1:22
  Don't worry, we'll be back soon and kind of talk about where
• 1:26
  we're at. So I think we teased it a couple
• 1:29
  times in some of the previous episodes about like I was going
• 1:33
  for a big life change and now we can tell people, I guess I moved
• 1:39
  from Los Angeles and now I'm living in Philadelphia for a
• 1:42
  Business School. I'm getting my MBA at Warden,
• 1:46
  majoring in AI for business and entrepreneurship and innovation.
• 1:48
  I've left my job. I moved across the country, back
• 1:52
  to the East Coast. It is cold here, but I'm from
• 1:55
  Toronto. Some would be OK, but yeah, so
• 1:57
  big, big life change on Ryan. Yep, and I'm still in LA.
• 2:02
  Don't worry folks. How long have you started school
• 2:05
  by this .2 months? Three months.
• 2:08
  So I started in August, I guess we're coming up on three months,
• 2:14
  which feels like a wild amount of time because it doesn't feel
• 2:18
  like it's been 3 months, but it also feels like it's been 6
• 2:21
  years. So, you know, time is weird.
• 2:23
  Now that you started school all over again, how does it feel
• 2:29
  similarly or differently from when you started as a college
• 2:32
  freshman? And I mean, I've at some point
• 2:37
  we should talk with your Business School experience too,
• 2:38
  because I don't think we've talked about Anderson a ton.
• 2:40
  I mean, we've had Anderson people, but it's different.
• 2:45
  I don't want it to be the same, to be very clear.
• 2:47
  I think there are certain people who go to Business School trying
• 2:51
  to recapture that. That was never me.
• 2:52
  I don't want. I had a phenomenal UCLA
• 2:57
  experience my undergrad. It's where we met.
• 3:00
  It's where I've met my closest people in the world.
• 3:03
  I'm not trying to recapture that.
• 3:04
  So it's reminiscent in the sense that like I'm back in school,
• 3:08
  like I'm taking courses again. It's reminiscent in the sense
• 3:11
  that I moved to the new city for the first time since I started
• 3:14
  college. It's reminiscent in the fact
• 3:16
  that like friendships are building really fast.
• 3:20
  There's similarities there, but inherently it is a very
• 3:23
  different experience because it's more oriented around career
• 3:27
  and adulthood and, and it's shorter, it's only two years,
• 3:31
  right? So there's even more of a
• 3:33
  maximization aspect where it does kind of feel like this is
• 3:36
  going to end very soon even though we just started.
• 3:39
  Yeah, one of the interesting things, as I've noticed in this
• 3:45
  school myself, and I joke about this a lot, is I constantly hear
• 3:52
  the MBA students using the word pivot.
• 3:55
  Pivot. As much, if not more than we say
• 3:58
  storytelling on this show, which I think is a very interesting
• 4:01
  concept and a big distinction between undergrad and and MBA
• 4:07
  specifically is for undergrad, you're trying to find your
• 4:11
  identity. There's a lot of exploration and
• 4:14
  MBA. There's also exploration, but
• 4:16
  with a very specific twist is that people are looking to
• 4:21
  pivot. They're looking to switch into
• 4:23
  the different things for their career.
• 4:27
  You know, they come to this platform very focused on
• 4:31
  changing your story. Yeah.
• 4:35
  And I think the density of opportunity here is very
• 4:38
  different where I don't know why because UCLA is huge amount of
• 4:43
  opportunities, right? But I don't know how I never
• 4:46
  felt overwhelmed by opportunity. I don't know if you did at UCLA,
• 4:49
  like I saw a lot of opportunities.
• 4:51
  I tried different things, but it I never felt like, OK, I have to
• 4:54
  decide now, have to commit now or like, oh, there's like 18
• 4:57
  things going on tonight. I gotta, you know, MBA.
• 5:01
  I am like, it's every night something's happening.
• 5:04
  And like I told you yesterday, I went from a movie night to a
• 5:09
  Diwali party to a birthday party, all in different parts of
• 5:13
  town. And I, I stayed at each for like
• 5:15
  an hour, an hour and a half. That was Saturday night.
• 5:18
  And I had stuff earlier in the day too.
• 5:21
  And the nights where I don't have anything, I get insecure.
• 5:23
  I'm like, fuck, should I be studying?
• 5:25
  Should I be applying for this? Why don't I have anything?
• 5:28
  Should I have signed up for this event?
• 5:32
  So I think the density of opportunity is different here.
• 5:35
  I don't know why that feels different than undergrad,
• 5:38
  because UCLA is not a it's not a place without the opportunity.
• 5:43
  I. Think we're definitely in
• 5:44
  different places at our grills, probably because when you're
• 5:48
  just starting college, the flow is more like, oh, I'm making
• 5:51
  sure I'm getting my footing, especially academically.
• 5:55
  And with that, it's more just about making sure you get the
• 5:58
  class that you want to get into and get through that in time.
• 6:03
  Because I, I felt what you're feeling right now when I started
• 6:06
  Business School as well as instantly you realize, oh,
• 6:09
  recruiting is happening and you want to, or almost have to get
• 6:14
  an internship towards the end of that year.
• 6:16
  And you have a better idea of what that cycle is like.
• 6:21
  That that knowledge brings you a better sense, not necessarily
• 6:25
  better, but a greater sense of urgency in terms of like what
• 6:30
  your goal posts is and what are the amount of effort you want to
• 6:35
  try to put into to get there. And I think one thing we haven't
• 6:38
  talked about is like, I was really excited and interested
• 6:44
  about what it'd be like to go to school with Jen AI, right?
• 6:48
  Which actually we see with open AI with these tools.
• 6:52
  And I honestly think radically different.
• 6:56
  It's a radically different way of education because 1
• 7:00
  professors have very different policies.
• 7:02
  Like there's some classes where we don't use it at all because
• 7:04
  we're not allowed to. And there's some class of
• 7:06
  professors like use it as much as you want.
• 7:08
  There's some classes I use in between site your sources, make
• 7:10
  sure it's right. I think the majority of classes,
• 7:13
  professors are very open to you using it because they know in
• 7:16
  your real world you're going to, you're going to use it right.
• 7:20
  But it's, it's a totally different world to do education
• 7:23
  with ChatGPT, with open AI, with anthropic, with all these
• 7:27
  different tools, because you can get things done a lot faster.
• 7:31
  You can do research a lot faster.
• 7:32
  Say you do a reading that you don't really understand, you can
• 7:35
  throw it in and ask questions. So education here with ChatGPT
• 7:40
  is very different. And I think with Gen.
• 7:43
  AI tools, I think in aggregate so far better.
• 7:46
  But I do think you have to be more intentional, right?
• 7:48
  You have to know you want to learn because you can use it to
• 7:51
  just not learn. And it's causing professors to
• 7:53
  be more intentional, how they teach, how they quiz, how they
• 7:55
  test, and it's causing students to be more intentional.
• 7:58
  But what are you trying to get out of this, right?
• 8:01
  If you're just going to cheat your way through the course,
• 8:04
  kind of what was the point? Why would you pay for something
• 8:06
  and then cheat, you know? So I am using Chat TV
• 8:09
  intentionally when I'm like, I'm here to learn.
• 8:11
  How can I use this to enhance my learning?
• 8:14
  Yeah. And that's actually a really
• 8:16
  interesting topic to delve into because you also are in this
• 8:21
  major that studies AI in business specifically.
• 8:24
  What's it like so far in some of the AI specific courses you're
• 8:29
  taking? What are some of the big
• 8:31
  surprises or anything memorable? Really good education.
• 8:35
  I think I'm learning a lot about how these systems work and the
• 8:39
  mistakes they make and how to work with them better to make
• 8:41
  less mistakes and just the the power of it.
• 8:45
  Like there's a lot of entrepreneurship classes here.
• 8:47
  So you see every day someone's creating a new app and lovable
• 8:51
  and like pitching it and seeing if they can get users and if no
• 8:54
  one uses it, they just create a new one tomorrow, right?
• 8:56
  So the speed of adoption and creation is really, really
• 8:59
  overwhelming almost with AII think one of the biggest lessons
• 9:04
  is that a lot of fundamentals are still the same, right?
• 9:07
  Making a good product, knowing your consumer, like just because
• 9:10
  we have this tool doesn't mean the fundamentals of product
• 9:12
  design is gone. So I think remembering that, but
• 9:15
  also we're on such a cutting edge with this where it's like
• 9:19
  understanding that everything I'm learning this course may be
• 9:21
  obsolete in a year, but understanding that if I get in
• 9:23
  now and then stay and fight and learn how LMS work, how large
• 9:28
  reasoning models work, how ChatGPT works, like what GBT
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  means. You kind of get in and you learn
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  the technicals and you learn kind of this fundamental change
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  and you can build on that. Intention is very important.
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  If AI think that's one thing, how how you use is very
• 9:45
  important. The questions you ask the pump
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  machine is very important. Just being intentional.
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  What am I trying to get out of this?
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  And making sure you don't get distracted with some of the
• 9:54
  other fancy things you can do is kind of the best way to get
• 9:58
  through using these tools. It's funny, we just did this
• 10:02
  like group AI analytics challenge at a work thing
• 10:07
  together. And the analysis result that
• 10:10
  came out of when people are trying their hands on this ranch
• 10:14
  from anywhere to like, let me show you how ridiculous this AI
• 10:20
  tool is. And the results just running out
• 10:23
  to like, oh, this is actually really, really good that we want
• 10:29
  to package this and actually present it to a wider audience.
• 10:33
  And when I'm working on it myself, I realize that you have
• 10:38
  to be very, very careful and very, very specific with the
• 10:43
  prompt. And that's when it when I
• 10:45
  realized when we talked to Stephen Marsh, this Canadian
• 10:49
  author who wrote a novel using AIA few years ago.
• 10:55
  Yeah, and also very early, like Stephen was very early with this
• 10:59
  and he Co wrote it as the first novel Co written of AI ever to
• 11:02
  be reviewed by the New York Times.
• 11:03
  Like these were early, early days.
• 11:06
  Yeah. And and that's when I realized
• 11:09
  I, he talked to us about you need to be a really, really good
• 11:13
  writer. You need to really know what
• 11:14
  you're doing in general to be able to utilize AI well if you
• 11:19
  wanted for creative writing purposes.
• 11:22
  And that's when I clicked me when I was actually using it for
• 11:26
  analytics with data. What you need to actually know
• 11:29
  your stuff, know the analytical process to be able to give it
• 11:33
  good, instruct good instructions so that it will get back to you,
• 11:40
  analysis or result that's actually presentable.
• 11:44
  I think when I think about story time and AI too, because I think
• 11:47
  in this hiatus of the show you assume I'd be talking with
• 11:50
  storytelling less. I am not talking about
• 11:53
  storytelling that. Was going to be the next
• 11:54
  question. It is incredible how ingrained
• 11:58
  this show is becoming me. It is incredible how much I form
• 12:02
  my views on storytelling. I'm hosting another podcast,
• 12:06
  Reward in Ted Talks, and we interviewed one of our mentors
• 12:09
  for the show, Nick Martel. I interviewed one of my mentors
• 12:12
  for the show, Nick Martel. First of all, we can talk about.
• 12:16
  I don't like doing podcasts by myself.
• 12:18
  It's a whole other thing. But like the show came up so
• 12:22
  much. I, I thought myself a couple
• 12:25
  times and I'm asking storytelling questions because
• 12:27
  that's just what I know, right? Like this is supposed to be a
• 12:30
  tech podcast, but I'm like asking storytelling questions.
• 12:33
  I'm mentioning this show. At one point I said, I said to
• 12:35
  Nick, I'm sorry, I'm going to bring up my podcast again.
• 12:38
  He's like, you should. It's your baby.
• 12:42
  It's incredible how ingrained this podcast and the way this
• 12:45
  podcast has taught me how to view the world is.
• 12:48
  It's incredible that like people know me as the storytelling guy,
• 12:52
  like the guy who talks about storytelling like because it's
• 12:55
  so ingrained in how I view the world.
• 12:58
  I was doing this panel for entertainment AI and they did my
• 13:02
  intro and we're talking and by the end sounds like, oh,
• 13:05
  storytelling, That's your whole thing.
• 13:06
  I'm like, I just met you. How did you know that?
• 13:08
  But it's, it's just how I communicate, right?
• 13:10
  And I think with AI and storytelling, it's a constant
• 13:14
  dance where I'm using AIA lot for telling my story is in club
• 13:18
  applications because there's a lot of like clubs you have to
• 13:21
  apply for like events and things you have to apply for.
• 13:24
  And like, I'll just take the questions, put an AI in edit,
• 13:26
  right? Because AI know so much about
• 13:27
  me, know so much about my resume because what have you.
• 13:30
  So for the very matter of fact of like this is Gore's bio.
• 13:33
  So like I had to write a bio for this entertainment in AI panel.
• 13:36
  I moderated. I, I didn't even do a draft.
• 13:39
  I went to AI 1st and had to write a bio.
• 13:41
  Then I edited it because it like the matter of fact, like step by
• 13:44
  step history story, what I'm passionate of goals.
• 13:47
  That's easy for AI to do. So there's, there's forms of
• 13:52
  that which helping me shape my story.
• 13:54
  But it's also really important. I don't let it shape my story
• 13:57
  because it was sometimes say things like, no, that's not what
• 14:00
  I'm trying to do, you know. So it's kind of a dance with
• 14:03
  storytelling and AI where it's like, let it learn about you,
• 14:06
  let it write things for you. And the more you use it, the
• 14:08
  more it be able to do that fast. But also be extremely
• 14:11
  questioning of whether or not this is actually what you want
• 14:15
  or if the AI has said it enough times.
• 14:17
  Oh, that kind of sounds like right.
• 14:20
  I think you and I have very different Business School
• 14:23
  experiences too, because you did it right after college and the
• 14:26
  pandemic and I obviously waited three to five years.
• 14:31
  So. And I think Anderson and Warden
• 14:33
  are very different schools where Anderson being in California has
• 14:38
  a little bit more of like that entertainment edge.
• 14:43
  Also, there's a comfort aspect of like UCLAI think will always
• 14:48
  be home to me in a way that I don't think Penn will ever be.
• 14:52
  And I think that has a natural do with like I truly feel like
• 14:55
  the the campus belongs to the undergrads.
• 14:57
  Like I stay in my I stay in Huntsman Hall, my MBA building.
• 15:01
  I go to like the MBA classes, but I don't like go to a lot of
• 15:05
  the libraries and stuff like because I feel like the the
• 15:07
  campus is undergrads. I don't know if you had that
• 15:10
  experience where you're like Anderson, the building, that's
• 15:13
  where the MBAs on the rest of the campus for undergrads, but I
• 15:17
  feel like you build a deeper connection.
• 15:19
  Undergraduate. It's student because you're
• 15:21
  living on campus. You're going to parties on
• 15:25
  campus like, oh, you say it's different, but you're living on
• 15:27
  campus. You're you're doing going to
• 15:29
  different buildings, you're eating on campus, you're
• 15:30
  spending all your time on campus where with MBAs, it's kind of
• 15:33
  like 1 building. And then you go back to like
• 15:35
  where people are living. Yeah, I think I.
• 15:40
  Felt a little bit similar but my experience is vastly different
• 15:44
  because for the mass majority of time I wasn't even physically on
• 15:50
  campus because people couldn't. Also class size.
• 15:53
  We have very different class sizes.
• 15:55
  How big was your class? Oh mine was 40 because of COVID,
• 16:01
  yeah. You know how big my class is.
• 16:03
  I mean at least 10 times that. My class is 888.
• 16:12
  What is outrageous? Yeah, I totally forgot.
• 16:17
  It was. Yeah, small.
• 16:18
  Everybody was in Henry. Class together.
• 16:20
  Everyone knows. Wait so wait so you guys had the
• 16:23
  same schedules? Like you didn't choose electors
• 16:26
  at all? There are electors in the final
• 16:28
  quarter, but for the most part, everybody's in everything
• 16:32
  together. So the way Warden makes us feel
• 16:35
  like a smaller school is they basically take all 888, put them
• 16:38
  in four clusters, and then within each cluster there's like
• 16:41
  3 cohorts. So you have like a cohort of 60
• 16:45
  that you take some classes with. So you take certain classes with
• 16:48
  your cohort. So you kind of get to know that
• 16:50
  Group A little bit better. So it's a little less
• 16:52
  overwhelming. But then you go to events and
• 16:54
  you're like, oh, I don't know anyone here.
• 16:57
  I'll still go to events of like, my year and like, I'll see a few
• 17:00
  people in my cohort that I know I say hi to.
• 17:02
  But then you also see like 50 people you've never seen before
• 17:05
  in your entire life. And you're like, oh, it's a bit
• 17:07
  school. But yeah, I mean, we haven't
• 17:10
  talked about the start of Warden.
• 17:13
  I'm going to tell the nicest story now, Kevin, you know this,
• 17:17
  I think. So on my very first day, very
• 17:20
  first class, my professor called me a narcissist in jest.
• 17:25
  Let's be clear, just in case employers are listening.
• 17:29
  So it was in jest. So what had happened was we were
• 17:34
  learning about organizational psychology and we were learning
• 17:37
  about kind of different leadership styles and we were
• 17:39
  talking about narcissism and the professors asking what are what
• 17:43
  are some like indications that someone could be a narcissist?
• 17:46
  And someone in my cohort rose their hand and said, well, if
• 17:49
  they have their own podcast, right?
• 17:52
  And then I will my hand after and answer the question.
• 17:55
  And I started with, well, I have my own podcast, so I'm taking
• 17:57
  that personally. It was a joke.
• 17:59
  And then my professor joking, he said, well, gore plugging his
• 18:02
  podcast makes him a narcissist, right?
• 18:04
  Something like that. Or does that make him a
• 18:06
  narcissist? And for the record, I didn't
• 18:07
  plug the podcast because I didn't say the name of the
• 18:10
  podcast. You can't just say you have a
• 18:11
  podcast that's not plugging it. And then it was a laugh.
• 18:14
  And then I think he felt a little bad because he was
• 18:16
  concerned that I wouldn't love the joke.
• 18:18
  I loved the joke. But so that literally my first
• 18:21
  day, my first class, my first professor at Ward and called me
• 18:24
  a narcissist. So what I did was, so this was a
• 18:28
  free week course. It's the first course you took.
• 18:30
  But I went to Amazon and I bought the shirt that says the
• 18:36
  world's greatest narcissist. And I wore it on the last day of
• 18:39
  class and I didn't say anything. I was super cool.
• 18:42
  And I was answering a question and he sees it and he breaks.
• 18:45
  And it's so funny watching him breakdown.
• 18:47
  He's like, I just read your shirt because like, because it
• 18:50
  was the joke, right? That I was because I'm.
• 18:53
  So I bought this shirt. And then in our cohorts, you
• 18:57
  have learning teams and those are the people you do the
• 18:59
  simulation with. There's people who do a lot of
• 19:00
  group projects with you get to know them right across.
• 19:03
  And my team is the Pandas and they're amazing.
• 19:05
  I love the pandas. And we presented to my Cuban
• 19:09
  John Legend. We came in second.
• 19:12
  I was said about it, but we can move on.
• 19:14
  But so I had another member of my learning team where I should.
• 19:17
  This is I hate nuts. Just so now there's two of us
• 19:23
  sitting on the last day of class because he called me a
• 19:26
  narcissist on the first day of class like 2 weeks earlier, me
• 19:29
  wearing world's greatest narcissist and another my member
• 19:31
  of my learning team went I hate narcissist.
• 19:33
  And he notices this one first, which was the plan.
• 19:36
  And then for the four minutes between when he notices this
• 19:39
  shirt and notices this shirt, I'm not hearing anything.
• 19:42
  I'm waiting for him to notice the shift and then he does.
• 19:46
  And so I broke our professor twice in the last lecture
• 19:50
  because you can get anything delivered from Amazon into yeah,
• 19:55
  all my favorite bits I've ever done.
• 19:57
  Yeah, no, I feel like we, we gotta invite this professor
• 20:01
  viewers onto the show I'm making.
• 20:04
  A lot of jokes here, people think I'm funny, Kevin, You
• 20:08
  know, when I'm uncomfortable, I make jokes.
• 20:11
  So I feel the signing. So I don't know if it's a bad
• 20:14
  sign or not, but it's been good. It was a good start.
• 20:18
  It's one of my favorite bits I've ever done.
• 20:21
  And I think it's been an interesting storytelling
• 20:24
  experiment. Business School, because you're
• 20:25
  really here to form your story. Tell, yes, your story, right?
• 20:28
  You come in with a goal, a very clear goal, and you're like, OK,
• 20:32
  this is my story, this is who I am.
• 20:34
  And you're here to define it, to set it in stone, to kind of jump
• 20:37
  on this rocket ship and say, hey, I know what I want, let's
• 20:40
  go. Because if you don't know what
• 20:41
  you want, it can get a little bit difficult because there's so
• 20:43
  many opportunities. And also you're telling your
• 20:46
  story in so many different ways, like in club applications, in
• 20:49
  job applications, when you meet somebody, hey, I'm going, I'm
• 20:52
  from Toronto, but I spent the last nine years in Los Angeles.
• 20:55
  This is what I did before this, this is what I'm recruiting for.
• 20:59
  And you get good at being able to talk about it.
• 21:01
  You get good to be able. Like, this is my passion.
• 21:04
  Like I think just in like those early days at bars shaking
• 21:07
  people's hands, I helped shaped what I want to be because I was
• 21:10
  like, this is where I'm from. This is who I am.
• 21:12
  This is my story, this is what I'm doing.
• 21:14
  So the whole thing is kind of a two year storytelling exercise.
• 21:17
  You choose what's going to enhance it.
• 21:19
  Maybe there's a class that you think's really going to help and
• 21:22
  it doesn't. Or maybe there's a class you
• 21:23
  have no idea if it's going to help you take it and does it,
• 21:25
  and you're slowly forming this story.
• 21:28
  And part of it is the narcissism bit, right?
• 21:32
  Part of it is me joining everything that has something to
• 21:35
  attack. Yeah, and you're probably not a
• 21:37
  narcissist because when I plug the podcast, I always mention
• 21:40
  the name along the way. So I might be a big.
• 21:44
  Know the name at this point, but one of the big reasons I came
• 21:49
  here is to grow the show. You know, this is one of the key
• 21:52
  goals here is to use these resources and use these lessons
• 21:54
  to help grow this show because we are coming up on six years
• 21:58
  like this is our fifth anniversary.
• 22:00
  We've done 80 plus episodes we've done interviewed dozens of
• 22:03
  people and I still fundamentally feel responsibility to them like
• 22:07
  to the people who gave us their time to make this like a key
• 22:10
  part of their resume. I want one day a season 1 guest
• 22:13
  to look back and say I was one of the 1st guest of the linen
• 22:17
  student pass type podcast. We try to make every episode
• 22:20
  super insightful, super useful, something you can use.
• 22:22
  This episode's not one of those, but, but we try to make this
• 22:28
  engaging, fun, entertaining. We love our audience and we know
• 22:32
  how valuable your time is, and we work hard to make it
• 22:34
  valuable. But the thing I'm driven most by
• 22:37
  is the guests. I'm driven so much by making
• 22:40
  this worth it for people who come next and for the people who
• 22:44
  already took a chance on us, right?
• 22:46
  Because we've had so many guests already who've been on much
• 22:49
  bigger shows, who've gotten more value out of it already.
• 22:52
  And every time we have a new guest, it's just another person
• 22:54
  that I'm fighting for. So that's why I'm eager about
• 22:57
  this show. So I'm passionate.
• 22:59
  That's why we're still going to run.
• 23:00
  That's why I get uncomfortable in these lawn hiatuses.
• 23:03
  But I know one of the reasons I'm we're doing this hiatus, one
• 23:06
  of the reasons I'm here is so that when I leave this school,
• 23:09
  the podcast is bed off. You know, one of the interesting
• 23:14
  things that is I realized a fifth year anniversary didn't
• 23:19
  feel like as much of an effort as as I felt like, let's say
• 23:26
  maybe the first 3. Whereas those are huge
• 23:29
  milestones. We feel like that we we gotta
• 23:32
  make sure we celebrate in the biggest way possible.
• 23:36
  But coming out on five years and, and I don't think there's a
• 23:40
  lot of occasions in life where we've stuck to something for
• 23:48
  five years. Like if you think about it,
• 23:50
  college was four years usually and at the end of the 4th that
• 23:53
  you had that grant commencement celebration.
• 23:56
  And that's kind of how I'm feeling right now is that I know
• 24:00
  this is something that'll be a more continuous thing.
• 24:03
  There's more years down the line.
• 24:05
  I think like when I was interviewing Nick for this other
• 24:09
  show, I saw the podcast in me right at the way I was able to
• 24:13
  repackage some of the stuff he says, the way we were able to do
• 24:16
  storytelling. Even here, like in this episode,
• 24:18
  we had no idea what the fuck we're going to do.
• 24:20
  And you're interviewing me, which is a new skill for you,
• 24:23
  right? Just asking questions, probing,
• 24:26
  like that's a new skill you've already developed over the last
• 24:28
  five years. And like this, being able to
• 24:30
  talk about my life for an hour and not be terrified that no
• 24:33
  one's going to give a shit that's new for me.
• 24:36
  Like understanding the value of this, knowing that, putting this
• 24:39
  out there, even if not everyone listens, the people who do are
• 24:41
  going to get a rich understanding of us, what
• 24:43
  motivates us and get more connected with the show.
• 24:46
  That's incredibly important. And I know that now, like
• 24:49
  there's so many amazing lessons that came out of this.
• 24:51
  And you know, with the world of AI now shaking everything up
• 24:55
  and, and the more I study AI, the more fundamentally I
• 24:59
  understand that we made a good bet on storytelling.
• 25:02
  It's actually getting more important to be a good
• 25:05
  storyteller because how easy it is AI to make you sound like a
• 25:09
  good storyteller because it's different being a good
• 25:12
  storyteller. Developing that skill, being
• 25:14
  able to persuade people write good stories, is harder now
• 25:20
  because AI can make anyone sound like a good storyteller.
• 25:24
  We all get these spam tests that are clearly written by AI that
• 25:28
  looks good but doesn't persuade because they're not good
• 25:31
  storytellers or they're not using AI in a way that's going
• 25:33
  to enhance their storytelling ability.
• 25:35
  So even in this world of AI where it's easier to seem like a
• 25:39
  good storyteller, it actually raises the bar for all of us
• 25:42
  because before seeming like a good storyteller, so sometimes
• 25:46
  good enough, but now that we all sound like that, the bar is
• 25:49
  raised. I'm more excited about the
• 25:51
  podcast than ever before. I'm more excited by our past
• 25:54
  episodes because if I was starting out in this world in
• 25:57
  AII think going back and listening those episodes already
• 26:01
  is a huge edge. Even though we did it not before
• 26:03
  AI existed. AI assisted for decades.
• 26:06
  You know, Kevin, you studied linguistics in computer science
• 26:08
  in college. Like, but in this world where,
• 26:11
  Jen, AI is so persuasive, I'm so glad I spent the last five years
• 26:15
  studying storytelling because it's guiding me here.
• 26:18
  But this could have been tailable.
• 26:19
  Like there's going to be podcasts that were created five
• 26:21
  years ago that are now obsolete because of AI, right?
• 26:24
  But I actually think in this world, and the more I study it
• 26:27
  here at Wooden, I actually think it just has proven us right that
• 26:32
  this is the most important skill.
• 26:34
  Yes, Stephen Marsh, talk to us about when we say this tool can
• 26:39
  be 85% as good as the the highest level of how you can
• 26:47
  complete a task. There are plenty of 100% good
• 26:51
  books that don't even get picked up.
• 26:53
  Nobody's going to read a 85% good book.
• 26:56
  So you still need to understand how to get to 100% or 120% and
• 27:02
  that comes from not the tools you're using, but your
• 27:07
  understanding of storytelling or whatever craft you need to
• 27:12
  infuse into your work. And that's, you know, the bigger
• 27:17
  take away, the more we get into storytelling, you know, AI as an
• 27:24
  important field that intersects with this theme as well.
• 27:29
  Let's not brush over Season 5 like this was a huge season for
• 27:34
  us, maybe our biggest, even though it's been our shortest.
• 27:37
  We launched video. We were viewed much more than we
• 27:41
  have in Passage. I mean, we don't look at viewing
• 27:43
  statistics, but it was like, OK, we had Allison Woodbrooks who
• 27:47
  was amazing, one of the best conversationists we've ever had.
• 27:51
  Also, you know, I love telling the story, but because of the
• 27:54
  fires, we had to push her recording.
• 27:56
  And when we did record of her, as soon as she finished with us,
• 28:00
  she went straight to record I'm chats.
• 28:02
  But so I tell people we opened up for that shepherd, but
• 28:05
  Allison Woodward, who's one of the most amazing
• 28:07
  conversationists I've ever met in my life, like it just flowed
• 28:11
  with her. We had VP of marketing and
• 28:13
  Liquid Death and Pearson and he open their eyes to kind of punk
• 28:19
  rock marketing, how to build a brand and also like how to have
• 28:22
  fun and how to like infuse joy in your work.
• 28:25
  And I thought that was incredibly impressive.
• 28:27
  VP of Creatives VP of Creatives Wahini Vara, who wrote this
• 28:34
  incredibly deep and interesting book on AI where we got to
• 28:38
  really talk about AI in a really new light.
• 28:41
  It's one of my favorite books I've read in a long time.
• 28:43
  Matt Abrams from Stanford Graduate School of Business to
• 28:47
  talk about talking and presenting.
• 28:49
  And I really loved because we talked a lot about anxiety.
• 28:52
  We talked a lot about how to work with anxiety.
• 28:57
  Yeah, I mean. And Eric Malicelli.
• 29:00
  Yeah, Marvel games. What an amazing honesty, what an
• 29:03
  amazing season. And I think because we've been
• 29:05
  on breaks on, but like, I learned so much about sorry,
• 29:08
  tying this season, even though Season 5 had to be a little
• 29:11
  short because obviously I moved across the country, I'm starting
• 29:14
  a new school. I'm incredibly proud of this
• 29:16
  season. I think this season raised the
• 29:19
  bar for us where I think we could have done more episodes
• 29:22
  this year, even with the tight schedule, but we chose not to
• 29:25
  because we are on a level of quality that matters to us now.
• 29:30
  I think he's always been quality, but we're at a point
• 29:32
  where it's like we know what the show is right now and we know
• 29:37
  how valuable audience time is and we know how valuable it is
• 29:41
  for our guests. And because of that, we are
• 29:43
  being more quality over quantity, and I think that's
• 29:46
  incredibly important. I really think we raised the
• 29:48
  part of this season. Absolutely.
• 29:50
  I think the story I look forward to creating in the upcoming
• 29:55
  season and upcoming years that now that we're operating pretty
• 30:00
  differently again, we're no longer in the same city, even
• 30:04
  though we've been a remote podcast for a long time, that's
• 30:06
  still going to be different. So I look forward to, you know,
• 30:09
  how we create together between the two of us and our broader
• 30:14
  kind of close friend group, how we operate together when we are
• 30:20
  more kind of satellite status from each other, more all kind
• 30:25
  of in our own little spots, how we stay connected and maintain
• 30:30
  and keep building on our connections.
• 30:38
  With that, let us get to our fifth year anniversary
• 30:44
  suspenders. And I think it'd be only fitting
• 30:49
  for us to ask the same suspender question we ask at every
• 30:54
  anniversary for this year. What is your story?
• 30:58
  How would you tell the story of yourself?
• 31:03
  I'm trying my best. That's the shortest I've ever
• 31:07
  answered that question. But I think, I think that's it.
• 31:10
  I think that's the story right now.
• 31:12
  I'm I'm trying my best. I'm just trying.
• 31:15
  That's all we can do. What about you, Kevin?
• 31:19
  What's your story? We talked about how we're
• 31:24
  getting very close to being in LA or being in the states for
• 31:32
  starting this phase of our life for 10 years.
• 31:36
  And it's, it's a very long time. The more you think about it and
• 31:40
  it's, it definitely feels long, but a lot of it feels like, oh,
• 31:45
  you know, I kind of just passed by.
• 31:47
  So for my story, I, I want to think about what is a 10 year
• 31:53
  anniversary mean for me? What's going to stay the same?
• 31:57
  What's going to change? How might I pivot my story from
• 32:03
  that point forward? So I also want to look into oh
• 32:08
  how how do I add more twists and turns and add more depth?
• 32:13
  This podcast is one of the few things that have really
• 32:17
  exemplified to enjoy the process thing where it's not really
• 32:21
  about the end result. Obviously we work very hard to
• 32:25
  put our good episodes, but the views, the reviews, we work on
• 32:29
  them because we want more people to find it, because we want to
• 32:31
  enhance our guest experience. But just the process, just like
• 32:35
  being in an interview, writing questions, and I'm trying to do
• 32:38
  that more in the rest of my life.
• 32:39
  Just enjoy being here no matter where you are.
• 32:44
  I forget who said this, but there's this meditation
• 32:47
  mindfulness term about being where your feet are.
• 32:53
  And kind of that's the story I'm trying to live right now with
• 32:55
  Business School. This is a new phase for all of
• 32:57
  us on this show. And follow along because I'm
• 33:00
  going to talk about Ward and more over the next few seasons.
• 33:04
  I'm going to talk a bit more about what I'm learning and AI
• 33:06
  for business AI and storytelling.
• 33:08
  And I'm going to share a lot of insights from the next two
• 33:10
  years. So follow along and maybe, maybe
• 33:14
  you'll learn something. Hopefully I'll definitely learn
• 33:17
  a lot. So learn with me.
• 33:21
  Well, this has been the five year anniversary of linen
• 33:26
  student plastic type podcast. We have more stories and great
• 33:32
  insights for you on the way. But for now, if you like a
• 33:35
  content, make sure to subscribe on YouTube and Spotify Apple
• 33:41
  podcast where you get your audio and video content.
• 33:45
  We have so much great stuff that's already out there that
• 33:48
  are worth visiting and revisiting.
• 33:51
  Follow us on Instagram and tech talk at LSPTPOD.
• 33:56
  LinkedIn Learning student plastic tie thank.
• 34:00
  You so much for listening. Thank you for being on this ride
• 34:02
  for five years. We're sorry.
• 34:03
  We're on a little break. Do not worry, we are coming
• 34:06
  back. We're still paying all the fees
• 34:09
  for everything. So we're committed, but don't
• 34:13
  worry, we're coming back. Thanks for writing with us.
• 34:15
  We're so excited to put on some new episodes and help you unlock
• 34:18
  the power Story time. Be where your feet are and
• 34:22
  cheers, Kevin. Congratulations for five years.
• 34:25
  The linen student class of TIE and cheers to the Nets, five
• 34:28
  years. Cheers.
• 34:31
  We love you. We should.
• 34:34
  Have got liquid death. That's fine.
• 34:38
  That's. Fine.