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A Hearing Loss Journey with Dr. Caroline Davis · Living Loud and Proud: Disability Conversations

• Phill Rosen Voice Over 00:00:00 Welcome to the Living Loud and Proud Podcast, brought to you by Disability Pride Pennsylvania. If you need a link to the transcript for this episode, please visit our accessible website at www.disabilitypridepa.org/podcast. And now, here is your host: Vicki Landers 00:00:27 Hi everyone! This is Vicki. I'm the founder and executive director for Disability Pride, Pennsylvania. Thank you for catching our next episode of the Living Loud and Proud Podcast. I'm very excited about our guest today. She is amazing. She is on our board. She is a doctor. We want to really say welcome to Caroline Davis. Dr. Caroline Davis 00:00:59 WOOOO! Thanks for having me. I am so excited to be here. Vicki Landers 00:01:04 We're excited to actually get to have this conversation. So, before I forget, I want to thank our podcast sponsors, Highmark Whole Care, they, they absolutely love our mission and try and support us in making Pennsylvania Disability Proud. So Caroline, why don't you introduce yourself? Dr. Caroline Davis 00:01:30 Yeah, sure. So I am Caroline Davis, I go by she/her. I am an Occupational Therapist, that just became official as of May 2023. When I graduated, I am secrat-... Vicki Landers 00:01:44 (Unintelligible, 1:44) Dr. Caroline Davis 00:01:45 Yeah, Wooo! I am a secretary for Disability Pride PA Executive Board. So what that look like, I just help keep track of minutes for the meeting. So I keep notes of what happened during the meeting, like, "Who was present? What was discussed?" If a vote occurred, like, "Who was the first person to say yay or nay? Who was the second? And then if were there, like a majority of the people who say yay, or nay? Oh, what's the overall final vote." And then I will share those minutes with the rest of the Executive Board. And I'll also send reminders about upcoming meetings as well as information that says agenda for the upcoming meeting. And I also have a hearing loss, which I am very open about. Vicki Landers 00:02:37 Yes, you are. I mean, I love how much I've learned about hearing loss and my own personal hearing loss from you and your experiences. But I also want to point out that, that is what they exhibit that is what the Secretary's job of the Executive Board for our for Disability Pride. But she also is a very good voice, you know, be on the board, you know, new ideas. A younger voice, which is what we always need is to make sure that we're trying to figure out what is going on, in all different types of spaces. And her and I both live with hearing loss. So we have a lot in common that way. And I just want to make sure that people don't think that you're just like the secretary taking notes, but you're actually an integral part of the board and the decisions that get made. So, so tell me how you got involved with Disability Pride Pennsylvania. Dr. Caroline Davis 00:03:51 Yeah, so first, I have to talk about how we first met, actually. So my mother and I, we were invited to the Inglis House, because at that time, they were inviting participants to preview their apartment setup with a focus on citizens with disability. So we all got to go into this sort of simulation of the apartment. I remember the example they had was a mirror setup above the stovetop so that way, if there were a person in a wheelchair, they could just roll up to the stovetop and they can use the mirror to look up and check like how they're cooking is going, 'cause they may not be able to look over and see how it is that while we were waiting to provide feedback, we were able to chat, get to know each other more. That's how I knew you were involved with the Disability Pride PA, and then this was early 2020. So then COVID happened, I remember you guys were gonna have your thirtieth anniversary of the signing of the ADA, and unfortunately, that had to be held virtually. But I remember, Clark, who is my younger brother, he also have a hearing loss. And I, we were invited to talk about our experiences with assistive technology as young adults with hearing loss. So we got to share our experiences with like, say you seen the FM, which is a transmitter, microphone and which teacher use in the school, we also talk about assistive technology we might have used outside of school, like I know, Clark talked about his experience using that kind of technology in ice hockey. So that was really cool getting to do that, 'cause there were so many people from around the world who tuned in, like I remember, someone from India was just casually in the Zoom room. So that was a really cool experience. And then I did get to attend a Disability Pride celebration over the summer of 2020, with my mom and a few friends. And that was a really amazing experience, seeing that in person and meeting others with diverse disabilities really felt like a whole community coming together. So that was really awesome, getting to see that. And then sometime after I was invited to join Disability Pride Planning Committee, so it's just helping. Y'know discuss like at the upcoming event. I know we were having conversations, like what games should be provided for the Disability Pride event, I remember I was able to provide some accessible game ideas, that was really nice getting to hear different opinions and voices about what to provide for the event. And then you actually invited me to speak at the Flag Raising Event last year, and this was after I graduated from OT school. So I was assist, officially Dr. Caroline, and I got to share them, what is Disability Pride to me. And that was really nice, just like hearing other people talk about their experiences, like what Disability Pride is to them. And then, I was then invited by you to apply for the Disability Pride Executive Board. And I found out the day of the Disability Pride Philly 2023, where I was also a guest speaker, that I was accepted into the Executive Board. So that was overall really exciting day. Yeah. Vicki Landers 00:07:17 Yeah, I mean, I, you know, it's been such a journey, I feel like I have known you and your family for so long. You know, and when you look at at the timeframe, it's like, we've done so many things. You know, like, you know, your mom and I are totally hooked on Halloween. Dr. Caroline Davis 00:07:37 Yes! Vicki Landers 00:07:40 We bond very well over that. But it's also, you know, all of the different things, you all got me involved with the Walk4Hearing. And what that looks like, and I just, I was so excited to to get you to come and speak at the Flag Raising as Dr. Caroline Davis. And I always try and make sure I tell people I'm like Dr. Caroline. And because it's an it's a huge feat, you know? Dr. Caroline Davis 00:08:12 It is. (Cross-Talk 8:13) Vicki Landers 00:08:13 You know, it's it's, it's not easy, it takes up a lot of your time. But it you know, obviously you love what you're doing. And I love how you've leaned into your disability experience and deciding where your career path wanted to go. So that I really love I, you know, I have obviously done that with what the Disability Pride stuff that I do. So I feel like that is something that we do together very well. And I think we're examples of how folks can do, can do what they want to do and how they figure out their own way to be a part of the community, even though they are already, but where do they fit in in their, in their, in their choices. So I think that that's super exciting. So can you tell us a little more about your hearing loss story? Dr. Caroline Davis 00:09:19 Yes. So I was born in 1996. So this was around the time that it wasn't really often that they do a hearing test after you were born. So I wasn't properly diagnosed with the bilateral to moderate hearing loss until I was just about to turn three. Like parents knew something was up because I was barely talking. I was barely responding to when they were trying to talk to me. But they had tried to take me to doctors and 'cause I have an older brother. The doctors would just tell them, "Oh, she has an older brother. She's just used to him talking for her." And so I wasn't properly diagnosed until I was about to turn three. And then just when I turned three, I finally got my hearing aids. So, and then, I primarily grew up going to mainstream schools, I had spent about one year in a gap education classroom where I was with other students who also have a hearing loss. And we spend time in a general education. However, that was primarily my only experience with really being around other people with hearing loss. So growing up, I mainly had hearing friends and so I have felt isolated at times, you know, being a big group settings, 'cause it can be hard to follow the conversation at times. And I remember when I was younger wishing I was hearing just so I wasn't feeling those barriers as much. But then, going into my junior year, the summer of, I got to go to Explore Your Future Camp at Rochester Institute of Technology, or RIT, 'cause they had the National Technical Institute for the Deaf or NTID, where it was a college for programs such as like interpreting and deaf education, but it was also for students with hearing loss to go and attend to get their education. So they held summer camps for upcoming high school junior and seniors. And their goal was to help those students maybe narrow down what they want to study in college as well as gain a real-life experience of being in a college setting. So there is where I really met so many people with hearing loss. And that's where I also became more immersed in American Sign Language. Like, I knew some signs leading up to that time. But that was where I really learned some more signs, just interacting with other people with hearing loss. And after my experience being at that camp, I found myself becoming more acepted and proud of my hearing loss. And then I ended up going to RIT for college as a cross-registered student. So what that looks like is 'cause of my hearing loss, my application first went to NTID just to look over my application, see if everything looked good. If it, I can go straight to RIT, not having to go through NTID. So it seemed like I was good to go. 'Cause I found out that I was accepted at RIT, which was awesome. And so, there I found myself more involved and educated about the Deaf community. And there again, I just became more proud of my hearing loss. And now I see it more as a benefit, rather than a barrier. And I wouldn't change it for the world. And I'm especially so glad to be part of the Deaf and the Hard-of-Hearing community. Vicki Landers 00:12:53 Oh, absolutely. I mean, that's, you know, it's learning how, how you're proud of who you are with what you got, you know, I mean, that's, that's me, you know, I, I live with multiple disabilities, but people always ask me, they're like, "Well, I don't really see you as, as somebody who has hearing loss." And I was like, "Like, you have no idea what I do every day to try and make sure that I can hear what everybody else is doing." Right? I was like, "It is a struggle, and it is mentally, like, draining at some times." Dr. Caroline Davis 00:13:32 Yeah, exactly. Vicki Landers 00:13:33 You know, and, you know, it's just people need to be, people, once you start to really, like lean in and like learning more about your community. I don't, I honestly don't know anybody who's like, "Oh, I don't want to be a part of that." You know? The Disability Community has such a rich history, you know, and we have so many accomplishments that you know, we should be celebrating more and more, you know, and, I just find that I'm you know, of course because I do live with hearing loss. I am deaf in in my left ear, and I have hearing loss in my right. So it is a very, sometimes a very tricky world. Dr. Caroline Davis 00:14:27 Yeah. Vicki Landers 00:14:28 But it's so, so interesting because so I, I love home improvement shows. I just, it's the idea of what I could do when I could get my own place. And Sunday night, I went on and they had, it was like Celebrity IOU or something like that, where the Property Brothers work with a celebrity to do something for somebody they know. And it just so happens that Sunday night, the celebrity was Marlee Matlin. Dr. Caroline Davis 00:15:11 No way! Vicki Landers 00:15:13 Yes! And they were doing backyard renovation for a friend who was deaf. And their daughters were hard of hearing. And I learned so much during that, it was like, make sure things are rounded and, you know, make, try and make your tables rounded because it's more Deaf-friendly, you know, and how sitting camps, campfire-style is the best way to think about how to do things. It was just amazing to me of how all of that is and how I love how proud she is and how she is very boisterous about who she is how she has, you know, her, her culture and everything. So, I just sorry, went off on a tangent. Dr. Caroline Davis 00:16:07 Now that is amazing. Vicki Landers 00:16:08 I just thought it was so interesting that we're having this conversation. And I just watched this, which totally made my mind think as being in our, in our center now, of how I want to make the make it feel more round for folks. So very exciting. Dr. Caroline Davis 00:16:28 Yeah, that is. Vicki Landers 00:16:30 So I know, getting back to our, our subjects, 'cause I could go off. So you used to play ice hockey. Dr. Caroline Davis 00:16:41 That is correct. Vicki Landers 00:16:43 Tell me how that is with living with hearing loss. Dr. Caroline Davis 00:16:46 Yes, so I remember when I first started playing, that was when I had more like big hearing aids. So unfortunately, I couldn't wear the hearing aids underneath my helmet. So I went some time having to play without the hearing aids. So that had definitely became a challenge just because a lot of times during practice, you know, the coaches are explaining the drills, they have their little whiteboard at the bench and they're breaking it down. And, and I had a hard time following. So a lot of time I maybe try to ask my teammate to explain it, or I had to rely on the demonstration that they get before we start. So I kind of had to like, kind of work around it, you know, get creative with how I did it. And I know especially when I'm out on the ice, we can only play for like a max one minute, cause we're skating so much it's get exhausting right away. So we have to make sure to get off the ice to give ourselves a break, allow our teammates to get out there and play. So a lot of times, I like, don't hear my coach, my teammates trying to yell at me to get off the ice, so a lot of time I have to kind of remind myself to look over at the bench, see if they're trying to, you know, waved me over, or I kind of just listen to my body like, "Okay, I'm dying, I'm getting off the ice." But thankfully, as the technology have evolved, at some point, I have these inside the ears hearing aids, so they were more just like the ear molds, so there was no coil. So I was able to wear my helmet over it, and my gosh, I clearly remember at that first practice, I was able to wear my hearing aid. I was so excited. I was like, "Oh my gosh, I can actually hear my teammates, interact with them." I could actually follow the drills that the coaches are going over. So that was really awesome. But yeah, so I like started in middle school. So that was mostly where I couldn't wear my hearing aids. It wasn't until in the middle of playing for the Conestoga Girls Varsity Ice Hockey was when I was able to wear my hearing aids underneath my helmet. And then I went on to play for the RIT Woman Club Ice Hockey Team, which was overall really amazing experience. I have also got to play with a few other girls who were Deaf or also Hard-of-Hearing. So that was really awesome. Having that community for sure. Vicki Landers 00:19:12 Wow, that's amazing! I couldn't imagine trying to do, trying to be on the on the ice with all of these people with all the noise that goes on, you know, and then trying to figure out what you were supposed to be doing. I would be totally overwhelmed. That is, that is amazing. And I love that you played through college! Dr. Caroline Davis 00:19:41 Yeah! Vicki Landers 00:19:42 You know, that's, that's exciting. I mean, I played softball, but I did not acquire my hearing loss until I was 27. It was from a sur-, from surgery. So I didn't grow up that, with hearing loss, so it is. I know, it's, I'm very interested in hearing stories of folks who have grown up with hearing loss. And always reminding folks that people get disabilities in different ways. Dr. Caroline Davis 00:20:16 Exactly. Vicki Landers 00:20:17 You know, and that nobody story is less than somebody else's. It's just a different experience. I think is, is so important for people to remember. Dr. Caroline Davis 00:20:29 Right? For sure. Vicki Landers 00:20:30 Yeah. So, so how, like, how are you involved in like, the Deaf and Hard-of-Hearing community? Like, I know that you do a lot. So tell me some of the things that you do do. Dr. Caroline Davis 00:20:43 Yeah. So first, I have to talk about like, really how I first got involved, like I had mentioned it, but it was really when I started attending RIT is because, you know, being a cross-registered student, I made sure to get very involved in NTID. So I know, they would hold events, such as the Applefest, which is a huge event for the NTID community. It, they would hold it at the beginning of the fall semester. And it's a really cool events, like they have a little buffet of food that incorporate apple since it is the Applefest, they had like music, they have NTID clubs and organization acting as vendors. Those were the kind of events that I really find myself really immersed in the deaf community, just interacting with others. So, and then, while I was also was at, RIT, I was very involved with No Voice Zone, which is a student run organization. And this was for those who go to RIT, or even have students from other colleges nearby, like Monroe Community College students have come over. And this is for those who are very interested in learning American Sign Language, and also just learning about the Deaf culture. So I first started as a student, 'cause at this time, I had more like a basic knowledge of Sign Language. But then as I immersed myself more in the community and learn more of the language, I was able to start volunteering as a teacher later on, and I was able to interact with those who are also teachings who maybe were also cross-registered like me, or they were students of NT, NTID themselves. And so, some of the things I do, I co-created Philly Deaf Champ with a good friend Garland. This is a... Vicki Landers 00:22:33 Love Garland! Dr. Caroline Davis 00:22:33 Yes, he's awesome. Yeah, this is a social group for those who are 21 and older who identify as Deaf or Hard-of-Hearing. But we're also very welcoming to interpreters, friends, and families of those with Hearing Loss CODAs or Children Of Deaf Adults. And so these are for those who live in or around Philly. And our main goal, there really was to bring together young adults with hearing loss so we can all connect, as I know personally, it can be challenging to find others who also have a hearing loss, especially around Philly. And just to help, you know, reduce feelings of isolation. We had really fun events like I know recently, the group was able to go to Philly Pride. We do monthly game night and we have collaborated with other Deaf groups such as Deaf Night Out for some events. And then, I'm very involved with the Pennsylvania Walk4Hearing, I started and attended in 2013. And then I expressed interest in just being more involved. So I was able to join the Planning Committee, I helped initially with Social Media. And then I was helping gathering gift cards from grocery stores as Giants to help purchase refreshments for the walk. And then I became Volunteer Co-Coordinator. So that was where I would share the sign-up link for those who are interested in volunteering leading up to the walk. And then day of the walk, I will check in the volunteers. I will tell them where to go for their volunteering duties. And then, really exciting, I recently became Co-Chairperson of the Refreshment Committee. So I would oversee like securing refreshments for the day at the Walk, such as soft pretzels and beverages, and just organizing the refreshments. Make sure so the attendees are able to get them the the events, so yeah that's definitely. And they're a good way for me to get involved, 'cause we get like so many people and especially with different stories about their hearing loss, so it's really cool to just getting to interact with them. And then I have also attended events at PSD or Pennsylvania School for the Deaf. And my mom, she's very involved with Pennsylvania Assistive Technology Foundation, so she had acted as a vendor at some of their events. And so I would go just to help interpret as needed, you know, just try to ease the communication barriers, 'cause she's very slowly learning sign language. But yeah, that's where I really interact with communities at PSD, like the students, alumni, other vendors. So it's really awesome getting to interact with that community. And I have also helped present to the PSD students about like financial resources. Such as PA ABLE with my mom. Vicki Landers 00:25:26 Oh! Wow, see, you do so much. And I love that, like, through the Walk4Hearing that you've learned, like, you've been able to go through, like, different committees, y'know, and learning, like, I mean, you could basically know how to put on an event soon. Dr. Caroline Davis 00:25:44 Yeah. Vicki Landers 00:25:47 Because that's, you know, that's how people, I always tell folks, I'm, like, join one committee. And, and, and, you know, you have to work through the entire, like, you know, I always tell folks with Disability Pride, if you say, I want to work in the Logistics Committee, you have to give it that whole, like run of the where the event takes place. And then you can volunteer again next year, and just be like, I do not want logistics. You know, I'm like, there's, there's spaces for people to do all kinds of things. And I love that through what you're doing with the Walk For Hearing. And of course, the stuff that your mom too, that, that you learn more and more about the stu-, about the things that are going on. You know, that's always you know, what, what, you know, how I run, most of the Disability Pride Events that are, that go on across the state, you know, is finding little committees and the area where people are in I mean, like Philly, these are things we need to get accomplished. And I have always had up the Logistics Committee, it includes fundraising, which of course, is nobody's favorite thing to do. 'Cept for mine. So but I think that that is that's really exciting that you're been able to not, not only like learn skills, you know, as you're doing it, but you're also like, really like leaning in, like leaning in and being involved in the in the Deaf community. So I think that's, that's fabulous. Are you, I said, Are you tutoring folks for ASL? Like are... Dr. Caroline Davis 00:27:46 Yes, I am! Vicki Landers 00:27:47 Oh, okay. Dr. Caroline Davis 00:27:49 Yeah. So, this all started because my parents were really good friends with...Well, first off, my dad went to Duke for business school. So he had made a lot of friends during his time. And he still keep in close touch with a pair of parents who also went to Duke for business school with him. And so, the mom one day reached out to my mom, like, "Hey, my daughter is very interested in learning Sign Language. Do you know anyone? Can you recommend anyone who can tutor her?" And then my mom's like, "Uhhh...Caroline!" So I was able to get roped in. So I started tutoring this young woman who was going into her sophomore year of high school, and her story is really interesting. It's just so nice watching her grow. But, so she was diagnosed with Hearing Loss for some time. However, she was refusing to get hearing aids, I think it was just because of the fear of being stigmatized with Hearing Loss. So as we have met for a longer period of time, you know, tutoring her and not only American Sign Language, but Deaf culture, 'cause I think that it's so important to learn about the Deaf history and you know, learning so much about the Deaf community. But, you know, I think after just showing her that, you know, "Yes, I do wear a hearing aid, but I'm very proud of it. Like I'm not afraid to hide it." And I had provided you know, verbal encouragement to her. She finally got her hearing aids and she have found so much improvements in her life after getting them. Like she would have family dinners and she would not get so thrilled about going to them. I think she would have a hard time following conversations. But after she got her hearing aids, she found it was so much easier to follow the conversation. And then... Vicki Landers 00:29:33 Yeah. Dr. Caroline Davis 00:29:34 Just she also became involved in the Walk4Hearing after I had told her about it, and she became like one of the biggest teams who raise money for the Walk. So it was really amazing watching her grow in her confidence and accepting her hearing loss. Like she actually made a whole speech in front of the school like, you know, trying to raise money for the Pennsylvania Walk4Hearing she openly opened up about her hearing loss which none of her friends knew about. So I think that was... Vicki Landers 00:30:01 Wow! Dr. Caroline Davis 00:30:01 ...really incredible. Yeah. And she actually just recently finished her senior internship at the PSD. She was kind of like an assistant for the Preschool Program. And she was telling me she absolutely loves her experiences, especially practicing signing, like her parents were telling me that, you know, she was just turn off her voice and practice signing. And that was really amazing, especially that she got to see aspects of the Deaf culture that we have talked about during our sessions, like, you know, different ways of getting a Deaf person's attention, like turning on and off the lights, like you have talked about earlier, making sure the seats were rounded, so they can see the teacher. Vicki Landers 00:30:42 Yeah. Dr. Caroline Davis 00:30:43 And then, I actually started tutoring and they're a young woman, I think, starting last February or March. She's in her early 30s. She recently lost her hearing and she got cochlear implants. So she had been wanting to learn Sign Language after she got her CIs. And she has actually been documenting her hearing loss journey on TikTok. So that's been kind of fun following that, as she's been so motivated and excited to learn Sign Language, as well as Deaf culture. And I just found that overall, this whole experience has been such a rewarding experience is watching my student grow in regard to knowledge and confident. Vicki Landers 00:31:24 Yeah, I mean, that's, it's, it is wonderful. I mean, I have, I have done some mentoring, and things for you know, in Disability and just in getting folks involved in this is what Disability history is. And this is where this is what Disability Pride is. And this is why, you know, people have all kinds, I always tell folks that like Disability Pride means something different to every person. And that's what it should, because Pride is a feeling. And everybody's feeling is their feeling. You know, it's not somebody's, it's not one group's, it's, it's a feeling. So you have to have it however it feels to you, you know, and, you know, we have lots of conversations around like, you know, people actually lean, you know, getting involved in their culture, and finding the folks that are like themselves, so that way, you could start to learn more, and you just become more, you feel more fulfilled, you know, and you feel more complete once they start hearing about the, the things that make a part of who you are. Dr. Caroline Davis 00:32:41 Yeah. Vicki Landers 00:32:42 Yeah, so that's really exciting to hear. We're gonna have to talk at some point in time to figure out how we can do, we can get you to do some of that for us. Dr. Caroline Davis 00:32:54 And I'm down for that. Yeah. Vicki Landers 00:32:56 Awesome! So before we get off, because this is all like lovely, and I love everything that we're talking about. But I wanted to make sure that I, that I talked about you being an Occupational Therapist, and how that has, you know, how that feels like, as somebody who is leaned into doing something that affects other folks in your community? Dr. Caroline Davis 00:33:27 Yeah, first off, I want to say like, just my overall experience in OT school was amazing. It's really awesome getting to be around other people who want to serve, you know, those who have a Disability, and just knowing that my professors were very advocating of me, you know, always making sure I have my accommodations. And that's pretty much when I knew I was in the right field. And yeah, I found that my Hearing Loss and even, a knowledge of American Sign Language have been really beneficial. Like, for one thing, that would be a huge selling point during interviews, because you know, obviously companies are always looking for diversity, and especially if the company primarily works with children with Autism Spectrum Disorder, knowing Sign Language is such a huge plus, because if the children are using Sign Language as a way to communicate, I'm able to communicate with them. So there's not really a communication barrier there. And so, I was formerly an Occupational Therapist working in a few school within a Chester County Intermediate Unit District. And I worked with like various ages and diagnoses, but students with Autism Spectrum Disorder was a huge part of my caseload. And a lot of the students I was working with, were learning Sign Language as part of their Intensive Teaching Program. So my knowledge of Sign Language really came in handy. 'Cause I was able to use signs during my sessions with them, and we were able to like understand each other, and I was also able to teach a Therapists and classrooms staff some signs which they were all really excited to learn. So it's really cool seeing that, you know, now I am very early in my career but I'm just so excited for future opportunities in which my disabilities can continue to be a huge benefit as being an OT, especially working with others with disabilities and being in a field, whereas heavily hearing-filled people and I have found that my passion wanting to work with others with disabilities and kind of serve as a reminder, like, "Hey, your disability does not have to be this huge barrier. Like, you can do so many amazing things regardless." Vicki Landers 00:35:36 Right? Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, then that's, that's really like, what I really, I really appreciate, like, you know, you, you're, you're doing something that you love, and you're immersing yourself in not only more of your culture, but like, the Deaf and Hard-of-Hearing culture, but the Disability community. And you're all you know, and you're, you're educating others around, so, to, you know, because to me, you know, I think ASL should be taught, it should be an option to be taught in all schools... Dr. Caroline Davis 00:36:16 Agreed. Vicki Landers 00:36:16 ...as any other language? And of course, like, you know, back in the day when I was young, you know, businesses and stuff, they were like, "Oh, do you speak Spanish?" Like that was like this thing. Like, it was like you were you were up, you're one higher than somebody if you could speak Spanish, you know, and I feel the same thing about ASL is like, there's so much going on now where anybody who has that language mastered, you know, is really going to be able to like pull away from any of the other candidates. Dr. Caroline Davis 00:36:57 I am very happy 'cause I feel like more schools are offering American Sign Language as a class. Like I know, Sophie, who is the young woman I was tutoring, she's going to be going to Duke in the fall. And she was telling me that they are starting to offer ASL I as a class. And I'm really hoping that will evolve in a whole ASL Department, 'cause I agree. I do think more schools need to offer it. And it's exciting but sad at the same time, I remember when I went to Conestoga High School. I wanted to take Sign Language as a language class. However, you know, they have to meet the language requirements for high school graduation, and they weren't offering Sign Language at the time, and they didn't establish like Independent Study. They're like, "No, you have to take an actual language class to satisfy the requirements." Like, oh, okay, so I took Spanish for three years, but then just as I was graduating, I found out they were finally starting to offer ASL I as an online class option like, "Man, that could no have been an option sooner?" Vicki Landers 00:38:02 Yeah, yeah, I hear you. I have, I actually got opted out of of having to learn a foreign language because I had such troubles with language, the English language. And I have, and I think that like my hearing was affected way back then. Because I couldn't understand like, and couldn't get the nuance, a lot of the times, so that was very exciting for me that I didn't have to actually do that. Dr. Caroline Davis 00:38:38 Yeah, yeah. Unfortunately, in Spanish class, when I, we had to do like auditory exercises. And like, with my moderate-to-profound hearing loss that can be very hard to grasp on. Like, I remember a lot of time I'm like, "Uhhhh..." Vicki Landers 00:38:53 Yeah. Dr. Caroline Davis 00:38:53 I was very thankful. I had a Spanish teacher who actually was originally interested in teaching for the Deaf and Hard-of-Hearing community. So it's absolutely perfect I had her, 'cause anytime we had a quiz in which maybe she was saying words in Spanish, she would make sure to hand me the slip of paper she was reading off of so I can go over it. Y'know, make sure I heard her correctly. So she was very accommodating. So I was very thankful for that. Vicki Landers 00:39:19 Oh, that's great. Yeah. I'm, I'm with the, I'm on the board of the National Council on Independent Living. And one of the things we are pushing for with the Disability Education Bill is also that ASL becomes one of the languages that that fit the criteria for graduation. Dr. Caroline Davis 00:39:45 Yes, please. Vicki Landers 00:39:48 And it's also really exciting because my friend Lauren, who has has two little ones, they actually are learning Sign Language in Preschool. Dr. Caroline Davis 00:39:58 That's exciting. Vicki Landers 00:40:01 It's the cutest thing! But, but yeah, I mean, thank you for all of this, I, it's been so much fun talking to you about all of this. Dr. Caroline Davis 00:40:10 Yeah. Vicki Landers 00:40:11 I could go on and on and on. But I do think that there's opportunities to come back and do some more. And I also think that there's some things that you really bring to the table where we can utilize that in a bunch of artwork, and trying to help us be more Deaf-friendly, because even though I have Hearing Loss, it's my experience and not everybody's. So I really appreciate all of that, that you do and that what you're going to bring to the table with being on the board and being in the community. So I want to thank you again for coming on today and talking to me. And I also want to make sure that I, I thank everybody for leaning in today, listening to our podcast, I hope you learned something, I hope it was entertaining. And again, we want to make sure that we thank our podcast sponsors Highmark Whole Care, for all of their support in all that we do across Pennsylvania. Thank you everybody, and we will see you next time! Dr. Caroline Davis 00:41:21 Thank you. Phill Rosen Voice Over 00:41:23 Please visit our accessible website at www.disabilitypridepa.org. You can find us on social media @DisabilityPridePA on Facebook, Instagram and TikTok.