Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / KILLER-SUSPECTS CUFFED: JOCELYN, 12, LURED FROM 7-ELEVEN, STRANGLED, UNCLOTHED IN CREEK

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KILLER-SUSPECTS CUFFED: JOCELYN, 12, LURED FROM 7-ELEVEN, STRANGLED, UNCLOTHED IN CREEK · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 2: Killer suspects cuffed Jocelyn just twelve years old, lured from
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Speaker 2: a local seven to eleven, found strangled and unclothed, tied
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Speaker 2: up in a creek. Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This
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Speaker 2: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 3: Bombshell in the last hours, two persons of interest detained
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Speaker 3: in a twelve year old girl's brutal strangling.
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Speaker 1: What do we know? Take a listen to the chief.
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Speaker 4: We're here to share some very horrible news. Someone has
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Speaker 4: taken one of our innocent children Promus today. A twelve
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Speaker 4: year old little girl found her this morning and we
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Speaker 4: believe somebody did this horrible thing to her, and we
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Speaker 4: are here to ask for your help.
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Speaker 5: I'm like angry that they just six wood had been
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Speaker 5: It's a curve.
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Speaker 1: She's so young, so you'd take my baby away? Now,
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Speaker 1: I get too, little brother. Nole's just say that we.
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Speaker 2: Can hold that emotional video of Joson's mother from our
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Speaker 2: friends Akhou.
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Speaker 1: It all started when we heard this.
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Speaker 4: Listen to find out if anybody knows anything, anybody saw anything,
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Speaker 4: Anybody can share that information so we can figure out
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Speaker 4: what happened to her exactly and we can find whoever
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Speaker 4: did this and get them off the street. I've talked
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Speaker 4: to this child's mother, of course, she is devastated. Her
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Speaker 4: family is devastating. Her little girl is gone. So we
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Speaker 4: need your help.
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Speaker 1: This little girl goes to bed.
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Speaker 2: My mommy goes to bed, a twelve year old little girl, Jocelyn.
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Speaker 2: Then she sneaks out for what to go about a
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Speaker 2: block to the seven to eleven and call her little boyfriend.
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Speaker 2: That's it, just a phone call. She never came home.
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Speaker 2: This is what more we know.
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Speaker 6: I'm going to talk to you about an incident that
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Speaker 6: happened around six am this morning. A citizen called nine
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Speaker 6: to one one regarding a body seen in the shallow
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Speaker 6: water of the Bayou your four hundred West Brancolin Road
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Speaker 6: in the Houston's Northfelt area. Houston's Homicide Division, along with
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Speaker 6: the assistants of the Houston Department's dive team in the
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Speaker 6: Harris County Medical Examiner's Office, we're able to recover that
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Speaker 6: body out of the shallow water there. Harris County's Medical
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Speaker 6: Examiner's Office is completing an official identification of the victim.
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Speaker 2: That little twelve year old girl has been murdered and
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Speaker 2: we believe raped by who. According to police, two illegal
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Speaker 2: immigrants also known as non citizen migrants, one of them
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Speaker 2: allegedly cutting off his ankle monitor after the murder. That's right,
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Speaker 2: let that sink in. One of them cutting off his
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Speaker 2: criminal ankle monitor after the twelve year old little girl
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Speaker 2: is murdered. So at the time, this little girl is stripped,
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Speaker 2: tied up, kept under a bridge, being tortured for two hours,
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Speaker 2: lured away from that payphone by these two. There's no
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Speaker 2: other way to say it, animals, he's wearing an ankle monitor.
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Speaker 1: He's already committed a crime.
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Speaker 2: There she is, thinking she's on a real adventure, sneaking
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Speaker 2: to a payphone to call her little thirteen year old
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Speaker 2: boyfriend to say good night. In the background, the little
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Speaker 2: boyfriend hears adult voices to adult voices.
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Speaker 1: There they are who walks.
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Speaker 2: Up to a little twelve year old girl, lures her
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Speaker 2: away only to rape and strangle her, strip her under
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Speaker 2: a bridge, and tie her up, and then throw her
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Speaker 2: half clothed body into a creek.
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Speaker 1: These two, that's who, why are they even here?
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Speaker 2: Joining me in all star panel to make sense of
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Speaker 2: what we know right now?
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Speaker 1: But have any of you had it with.
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Speaker 2: Violent crime, especially on children, much less by illegal immigrants
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Speaker 2: that are not supposed to be here anyway. Why why
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Speaker 2: are they here? Why are they lurking around unapprehended? And
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Speaker 2: now this little girl is dead again? Joining me in
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Speaker 2: All Star panel, but first to Coraley Peel, investigative reporter
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Speaker 2: kp RC two in Houston. Thank you for being with us. Cory,
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Speaker 2: start at the beginning, Go ahead.
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Speaker 7: Thank you so much Nancy for having me. This tragic
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Speaker 7: story starts when Alexis Nungray tucked her twelve year old
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Speaker 7: daughter Alexis in bed Sunday night. Last Sunday. She was
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Speaker 7: expected to go to work with her mother the next morning,
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Speaker 7: so she said everything was normal, nothing seemed unusual. She
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Speaker 7: went to bed around ten o'clock that night, and the
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Speaker 7: next morning she realized that her daughter was missing. So
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Speaker 7: she gets in her car. She drives around the neighborhood
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Speaker 7: looking for her. She starts pinging her daughter's phone, and
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Speaker 7: when she pings her phone, it takes her to the
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Speaker 7: creek where she sees a crime scene and detectives.
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Speaker 2: Corly Peel, that is every appearance worst nightmare, because when
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Speaker 2: I can't find the twins, my children. I just go
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Speaker 2: look at life thirty sixty and I see where they are,
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Speaker 2: and they're where they're supposed to be.
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Speaker 1: And I'm just imagining this mom.
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Speaker 2: And it was really early in the morning, and Jocelyn,
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Speaker 2: the twelve year old little girl, was going with mommy
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Speaker 2: to work that morning, and mommy told her that just
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Speaker 2: before they went to bed, go to bed, Go to bed.
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Speaker 2: You gotta get up early because you're going to work
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Speaker 2: with me, and Mommy goes to sleep.
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Speaker 1: This is what we know. Listen.
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Speaker 8: Joscelyn Nungary is a helpful, bright, funny girl. At twelve
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Speaker 8: years old. She helps her mother with her little brother
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Speaker 8: and at school, she's one of the most popular. On
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Speaker 8: Sunday night, Jocelyn's mother, Alexis Nungary, reminds her not to
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Speaker 8: stay up too late, as Jocelyn is going to work
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Speaker 8: with her in the morning. Alexis tells Jocelyn good night
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Speaker 8: at ten pm and turns in for the night herself.
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Speaker 8: A little after ten PM, when she is certain her
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Speaker 8: mother is asleep, Jocelyn sneaks out of the house and
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Speaker 8: goes to a local convenience store. It's around midnight when
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Speaker 8: she calls her thirteen year old boyfriend, who says he
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Speaker 8: hears Joscelyn talking to some adults before he hangs up
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Speaker 8: the phone.
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Speaker 1: Joining me.
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Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall Renow psychoanalyst, joining us from LA. You
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Speaker 2: can find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Doctor Bethany,
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Speaker 2: thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 1: You know, I've.
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Speaker 2: Actually heard people horrible, people attacking the little girl and
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Speaker 2: the mom. It was a couple of blocks away. For
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Speaker 2: what is she out dealing drugs? Is she out hoaring around?
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Speaker 2: Is she out joy riding, stealing a car, vandelizing, doing pot,
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Speaker 2: doing anything wrong? No, she goes to call and say
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Speaker 2: good night to the little boyfriend who's just thirteen, and
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Speaker 2: he's at home with his parents. That's it, And some
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Speaker 2: people have actually vilified it. You know, a lot of
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Speaker 2: people not me, because I was afraid that I wasn't
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Speaker 2: afraid of what my parents would do to me.
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Speaker 1: I was afraid they be disappointed in me.
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Speaker 2: I never snuck out, but I can't say the same
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Speaker 2: for my brother and sister or anybody else I know
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Speaker 2: that didn't sneak out and do something and actually get
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Speaker 2: back in without getting caught. But I hate that, Bethany,
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Speaker 2: Will people do anything, come up with anything, fabricate anything
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Speaker 2: to blame a victim. I think I know why they
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Speaker 2: do it, because it isolates them from a crime like
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Speaker 2: that'll never happen to me and my child. But this
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Speaker 2: is a twelve year old little girl who was about
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Speaker 2: to get up at the crack of dawn to go
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Speaker 2: with mommy to work.
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Speaker 5: Nancy. People are saying all kinds of horrible things, like
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Speaker 5: why did the mother go to bed before her daughter
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Speaker 5: went to bed, Why did the little girl sleep sneak
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Speaker 5: out of the window, why did she have a boyfriend?
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Speaker 5: To put this in context, Nancy, by the time children
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Speaker 5: are twelve years old, they are beginning a developmental trajectory
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Speaker 5: where they will start to distance themselves from their parents
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Speaker 5: sometimes and start to cling to their peers. They're preparing
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Speaker 5: to leave home when they're seventeen, eighteen, or nineteen. It's
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Speaker 5: how their brains are developing and growing. So that's why
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Speaker 5: you see them always wanting to play video games with
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Speaker 5: other people, or talk on the phone with their friends,
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Speaker 5: or look on social media. It's because their brains are
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Speaker 5: programmed to do that. All she wanted to do was
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Speaker 5: say good night to her little boyfriend. This is a
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Speaker 5: twelve year old child who was doing what twelve year
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Speaker 5: olds do, and she was from a normal family with
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Speaker 5: a normal mother who was going to have a sweet
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Speaker 5: day with her the next day, taking her daughter to
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Speaker 5: work with her.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's this little girl sneaks out of the house
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Speaker 2: to call the little boyfriend on her cell.
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Speaker 1: She never makes it home.
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Speaker 2: Joining me an all star panel, Courly Peele joining us
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Speaker 2: kp RC two. Where was the mom working? Why was
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Speaker 2: little Joscelyn going with mom to work the next morning?
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Speaker 7: Now, she didn't reveal that information as to exactly what
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Speaker 7: they were going to do the next day at work,
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Speaker 7: but she said they just came back from a vacation
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Speaker 7: in that weekend, so you know, she told.
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Speaker 9: Her they were going to get up early.
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Speaker 7: It was going to be a completely normal day for them, essentially,
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Speaker 7: you know, at summertime, she doesn't have school, so she
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Speaker 7: was just going to just tag along with her mom
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Speaker 7: who worked the next day. But it was just a heartbreaking,
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Speaker 7: you know, situation to hear from her mother. She was
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Speaker 7: just you saw those tears streaming down her face as
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Speaker 7: she just plead for help, just in disbelief as this
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Speaker 7: could happen to her twelve year old daughters.
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Speaker 5: So again, like we mentioned parents' worst.
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Speaker 7: Nightmare, no one thinks that their child's not going to
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Speaker 7: be there when they wake up in the morning.
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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 2: Joining me, Lynn Shaw, a founder executive director of Lynn's Warriors,
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Speaker 2: committed to ending human trafficking and sexploitation, particularly of children. Lynn,
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Speaker 2: when I read this story, I could barely contain myself
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Speaker 2: just twelve years old. I'm remembering my children at age twelve,
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Speaker 2: completely innocent, completely innocent, and this little girl all on
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Speaker 2: board to go to work with mommy the next morning,
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Speaker 2: never complaining great grades. You saw her playing, I believe
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Speaker 2: a cello. I mean, there's just a perfect little girl.
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Speaker 2: And to end like this, this horrible death. When I
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Speaker 2: think of those two one with an ankle monitor on,
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Speaker 2: I mean a lot of times, Lynn, we don't allow
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Speaker 2: ourselves to think about the facts, the actual facts of
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Speaker 2: what happened. We hear, oh, okay, little girl found dead
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Speaker 2: in a creek under a bridge, and we stop right there.
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Speaker 2: We don't follow that through that chain of thought. But
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Speaker 2: these two animals lured this little girl away from the
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Speaker 2: seven to eleven where she was using her cell phone.
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Speaker 1: They lure her to a bridge area.
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Speaker 2: I don't know when they started forcing her there or not,
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Speaker 2: but they're walking along with her like they're friends. They
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Speaker 2: get her down under the bridge, strip her, tie her up,
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Speaker 2: I believe, rape her, and then strangle her and throw
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Speaker 2: her body into this.
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Speaker 1: By you, I mean like she's trash Lynn, Nancy.
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Speaker 9: We work so hard with missing children, sex traffic children,
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Speaker 9: labor traffic children. This story came across to me very
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Speaker 9: early on, and I said to myself, I bet you
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Speaker 9: it's very nefarious. I bet you it has something to
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Speaker 9: do with our open borders. Let's call it what it is.
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Speaker 9: I saw this story of a twelve year old and
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Speaker 9: for me to get tears in my eyes, I'm pretty
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Speaker 9: hardened about all of this. I am tired of this, Nancy.
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Speaker 9: I am tired of everybody making light of what's going
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Speaker 9: on in America. We have on any given day twenty
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Speaker 9: three hundred children in the United States. There is more
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Speaker 9: to this story. I believe what the work we do
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Speaker 9: then we're hearing about. First of all, I heard that
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Speaker 9: she was with her boyfriend and went to a restaurant
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Speaker 9: to meet these two. I heard that then I heard
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Speaker 9: she was calling her boyfriend. Then I heard the Houston
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Speaker 9: mayor say she was raped. Then it was walked back.
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Speaker 9: Nobody else will say right now she was actually raped.
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Speaker 9: They said that is pending the sexual assault. Well, I
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Speaker 9: think when you are dumped in a creek with your
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Speaker 9: pants missing and there's all of this, somebody with an ankle,
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Speaker 9: I don't even call it an ankle bracelet. Why are
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Speaker 9: they here in the first place? Ankle bracelet eat People's illegal.
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Speaker 9: They do not belong here. Kids have been jumping out
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Speaker 9: their windows and doors for years, sneaking out of the house. Nancy,
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Speaker 9: Why did she go out of the house. Was there
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Speaker 9: something she aline that was happening? Was the boyfriend urging
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Speaker 9: her to meet him somewhere? We do not know, but
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Speaker 9: I want question and I leave you with this. We
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Speaker 9: have alarms now when somebody breaks in a home or
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Speaker 9: a business. I'm calling for alarms when kids, anybody is
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Speaker 9: breaking out. We live in a society now we have
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Speaker 9: to step up. This is the reality, dark and ugly.
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Speaker 9: If a child's trying to leave a home, an alarm
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Speaker 9: will go off on a window or door. This is
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Speaker 9: what we're faced with today.
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Speaker 2: A twelve year old little girl is lured away by
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Speaker 2: two adult males that we now are two non citizen
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Speaker 2: migrants aka illegal aliens, one still wearing.
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Speaker 1: An ankle monitor. Lured under a.
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Speaker 2: Bridge, She's found stripped, bound and dead, strangled, dead, and
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Speaker 2: thrown into the water. Joining me Michael Yvonnees, former Houston
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Speaker 2: Police homicide detective, now PI AT y two investigate gations. Michael,
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Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. You know Lenna's right.
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Speaker 2: No one will say they rate the little girl. Then
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Speaker 2: why were her pants off? Why was she stripped? Why
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Speaker 2: was she bound? Why are cops saying this much that
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Speaker 2: she was held under the bridge for two hours at least?
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Speaker 1: Why? Why?
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Speaker 2: Why all those circumstances if she was not sex assaulted
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Speaker 2: and then murdered. Can you imagine this child begging to
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Speaker 2: go back home to mommy in the middle of the night,
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Speaker 2: begging for them to leave her alone, begging to live,
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Speaker 2: and they strangled her anyway? Can you imagine that that's
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Speaker 2: what happened, That is what happened to Michael.
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Speaker 10: Of course, Nancy, all those signs are indicative of sexual assault,
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Speaker 10: and you and I and common sense people, we probably
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Speaker 10: know that the police are being cautious and what they
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Speaker 10: tell you and what they released to the public to
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Speaker 10: preserve their investigation. There, they're trying to preserve it for
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Speaker 10: court and they don't want to They don't want to
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Speaker 10: make any statement that might upset this case. Further down
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Speaker 10: the road, back.
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Speaker 2: To special guest journing us Corley Peel, investigative reporter kp
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Speaker 2: R C two. Coray, what do we know about these
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Speaker 2: two guys? I want to talk about them.
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Speaker 7: Yeah, well, we've learned that they are originally from Venezuela.
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Speaker 1: They've been living in.
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Speaker 7: Houston for about a month. That's according to neighbors who
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Speaker 7: live at the apartment complex where they were arrested. We
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Speaker 7: don't know a whole lot right now, but we do
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Speaker 7: know that they were.
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Speaker 5: Stopped by Border patrol.
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Speaker 7: Martinez was stomped I believe back in March near al Paso,
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Speaker 7: and the other man was stomped in May. So still
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Speaker 7: a lot to unpack here about their background, but we
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Speaker 7: do know that they were here in the US illegally.
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Speaker 1: Guys.
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Speaker 2: This is what more we are learning. Incredible police. I
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Speaker 2: don't know if you recall Jennifer Dulos, the missing Connecticut
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Speaker 2: mom of five. Her body has never been found but
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Speaker 2: due to a copious amount of blood in her garage,
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Speaker 2: it has been determined that her husband Photused Dulos and
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Speaker 2: his girlfriend, his mistress, Michel Tconis, had a hand in
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Speaker 2: her death.
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Speaker 1: He murdered her.
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Speaker 2: This mother of five goes missing, and what the local
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Speaker 2: police do, in conjunction with others is they put together
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Speaker 2: and I believe this is what's.
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Speaker 1: Being done right now.
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Speaker 2: It's not already been done in the Brian Coburger quadruple
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Speaker 2: homicide case and Moscow.
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Speaker 1: They put together.
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Speaker 2: A montage okay, like a real a demo reel okay,
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Speaker 2: and they follow the perp or the victim through red
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Speaker 2: light cams through I remember in Jennifer Dulos there was
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Speaker 2: a public bus that opened its doors and you see
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Speaker 2: the husband photos Dulos driving by and somebody else car.
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Speaker 2: To get it detailed because Jennifer's DNA is all over it,
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Speaker 2: they use traffic cams, tag grabbers, anything, toll bridges, anything
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Speaker 2: with a camera, home security cam, and they put together
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Speaker 2: a timeline in video. And I believe that is what
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Speaker 2: the police very wisely did here.
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Speaker 11: Listen, our team has worked tirelessly tracking evidence in this
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Speaker 11: case since the discovery of Joscelyn by a citizen on
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Speaker 11: the morning of June seventeenth, twenty twenty four. Because of
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Speaker 11: the assistance of the area community and surveillance video that
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Speaker 11: our officers have tirelessly tracked down and other evidence heary pieces,
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Speaker 11: we have found and learned that the suspects began their
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Speaker 11: evening at a Northborough area restaurant together. They left that
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Speaker 11: restaurant on foot southbound.
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Speaker 2: And more of what we know about the two defendants
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Speaker 2: now charged with capital martyr of a twelve year old
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Speaker 2: little girl their movements.
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Speaker 11: Listen, the suspects continued south and we're first seen on
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Speaker 11: a camera and those are the images that we released
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Speaker 11: to you to all of you into the public. Suspects
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Speaker 11: seen meeting the victim and talking for a few minutes
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Speaker 11: while they were on Kirkandal. Later, the suspects and the
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Speaker 11: victim walked together to a convenience store and those images
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Speaker 11: were also released to you guys in the public. After
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Speaker 11: a few minutes, all three together walked to a bridge
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Speaker 11: where ultimately Joscelyn was murdered. Suspects continue south towards their
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Speaker 11: residence after leaving Joscelyn there.
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Speaker 1: Oh, they're totally busted.
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Speaker 2: They are following them through veryous surveillance videos. They'll probably
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Speaker 2: bring in cell phone pings, all sorts of digital proof
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Speaker 2: to show it's these two guys that took Joscelyn then
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Speaker 2: forced her down under a bridge, reminiscent of the two
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Speaker 2: little girls in Delphi forced under a trestle bridge.
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Speaker 1: Now, who sees this little girl at the seven eleven?
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Speaker 2: All she's doing is thinking out to call her a
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Speaker 2: little boyfriend on her cell phone, So Mommy won't hear.
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Speaker 1: Who sees this girl and thinks, hey, I'm going to.
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Speaker 2: Rape her and murder her? Nobody except these two. I
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Speaker 2: was asking you earlier, what do we know about these guys.
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Speaker 2: We know that they are Jose Roguel Martinez and Franklin
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Speaker 2: Jose Pina Ramos, and they are both here illegally. Ramos
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Speaker 2: discovered crossing the border with a large group of migrants,
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Speaker 2: given a notice to appear in San Antonio court August
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Speaker 2: twenty nine. What he immediately disappears. We know Ibarra placed
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Speaker 2: on a program, a.
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Speaker 1: Ankle monitor program.
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Speaker 2: He immediately cut off that monitor and disappeared. April twenty
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Speaker 2: twenty three. Yeah, that's who's here. Both of them just
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Speaker 2: disappear into the wind. We know a fifty three thousand
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Speaker 2: to have.
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Speaker 1: Disappeared under similar circumstances. Where are they? Maybe in your backyard?
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Speaker 2: Joining me now is a renowned chief medical examiner out
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Speaker 2: of Terrance County.
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Speaker 1: That's Fort Worth.
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Speaker 2: Never lack a business there, Doctor Kendall Crowns, who has
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Speaker 2: performed thousands of autopsies, including on children. Lecturer at the
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Speaker 2: Burnett School of Medicine at TCU. Doctor Kendall Crowns, thank
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Speaker 2: you for being with us. Explain to me how an
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Speaker 2: autopsy will be performed on this twelve year old little girl.
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Speaker 12: What do you do so in a case of strangulation,
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Speaker 12: you would still follow the same procedure as of an
21:52
Speaker 12: autopsy that you usually do. An external examination making note
21:56
Speaker 12: of any march stars or tattoos evidence of injury, and an
22:00
Speaker 12: internal examination is performed where a y shaped decision is
22:03
Speaker 12: made and each organ is removed and dissected. But then
22:07
Speaker 12: a layered neck dissection will be done where each layer
22:10
Speaker 12: of the muscles of the neck are peeled back looking
22:14
Speaker 12: for injuries, and then the throat structures will be exposed,
22:17
Speaker 12: removed and evaluated. So looking at the highwaid bone which
22:21
Speaker 12: is this U shaped bone in your neck that can
22:23
Speaker 12: be broken in strangulation and the thyroid cartilage, which is
22:27
Speaker 12: a structure right above your windpipe that also is often
22:32
Speaker 12: broken in strangulation cases.
22:34
Speaker 2: How will you determine, doctor Kendall Crowns, whether or not
22:37
Speaker 2: the little girl had been raped?
22:40
Speaker 12: So an evaluation of her genitalia will be done looking
22:43
Speaker 12: at her vagina in anal orifices or the areas around it,
22:48
Speaker 12: looking for contusions, abrasions, tears of bruises, that type of
22:52
Speaker 12: injury you can usually find that in rape cases.
22:57
Speaker 3: You surveillance shows twelve year old just with two unknown
23:01
Speaker 3: men at a convenience store in the dead of the night.
23:05
Speaker 2: And even now online trolls are attacking the mom and
23:09
Speaker 2: the little girl. This twelve year old little girl was
23:13
Speaker 2: doing nothing more than sneaking a cell phone call to
23:17
Speaker 2: her little thirteen year old boyfriend at the nearby seven
23:20
Speaker 2: to eleven, and she ends up dead, stripped, strangled, and
23:26
Speaker 2: thrown into the water. Doctor Bethany Marshall joining us renown
23:30
Speaker 2: psycho analysts out of La Doctor Bethany, what does the
23:34
Speaker 2: treatment of this little girl mean to you as it
23:37
Speaker 2: relates to the minds of the two perpetrators.
23:40
Speaker 5: Well, for one, I think she had three factors that
23:42
Speaker 5: they were looking for. Availability, vulnerability, and desirability. She's such
23:47
Speaker 5: a cute little girl. She's vulnerable.
23:50
Speaker 1: They can have their.
23:51
Speaker 5: Way with her. Nancy, and I think these guys wanted
23:54
Speaker 5: to have power and control over a female. They were
23:58
Speaker 5: full of rage, and Nancy the male done this before.
24:00
Speaker 5: I mean, these two guys are acting in concert to terrorize,
24:06
Speaker 5: rape and do whatever they want to do. Remember John
24:09
Speaker 5: Lee Malvo obviously, John Alvin and John Allen Muhammad were
24:13
Speaker 5: they They worked in concert to terrorize the DC area.
24:19
Speaker 5: They were full of rage, they came from another country.
24:22
Speaker 5: They wanted to come up against unsuspecting victims. I was
24:26
Speaker 5: thinking about that with these two, especially since they have
24:29
Speaker 5: a gang history, Like what were they really planning and
24:33
Speaker 5: that area that they had moved into. Did they want
24:35
Speaker 5: to pray on other unsuspecting victims or were they hatching
24:39
Speaker 5: some plot? But definitely they chose this little girl because
24:43
Speaker 5: she's tiny, she's vulnerable. They could have their way with her.
24:47
Speaker 5: These monsters, they're not going to come up against peers
24:52
Speaker 5: or somebody more powerful than them. Imagine what happens when
24:55
Speaker 5: they have to come up against the police or now
24:57
Speaker 5: they're being questioned or they have to answer or to investigators.
25:01
Speaker 5: These guys are cowards, deep down, homicidal cowards who only
25:07
Speaker 5: wanted their way with a little girl. It is so
25:10
Speaker 5: terrible and tragic.
25:12
Speaker 2: You know another thing, Doctor Bethany Marshall, is these two
25:15
Speaker 2: we now know thanks to local police and especially that
25:20
Speaker 2: detective Steven Hope. You were hearing earlier that these two
25:23
Speaker 2: went out and were spotted at a restaurant, and they're
25:25
Speaker 2: caught on surveillance video at a restaurant having dinner.
25:28
Speaker 1: It's almost like they go out for dinner in a.
25:30
Speaker 2: Movie and they use up the little girl and just
25:33
Speaker 2: throw her away like that, throw a popcorn down at
25:36
Speaker 2: the AMC.
25:37
Speaker 1: That's how she's treated, Nancy.
25:38
Speaker 5: These animals have no regard for life. And when I
25:41
Speaker 5: heard about the restaurant, I was thinking, were they just
25:44
Speaker 5: sitting ordering hamburgers and French fries and talking about who
25:47
Speaker 5: they're going to murder? I would not be surprised if
25:51
Speaker 5: they were stirring it up and actually stimulating each other,
25:54
Speaker 5: because we know even with criminals who get out of jail,
25:57
Speaker 5: sometimes they emerge more for us, traded and more ready
26:01
Speaker 5: to offend because of their incarceration experiences, and these guys
26:06
Speaker 5: have been roaming, you know, they go over the border
26:09
Speaker 5: there and they interact with law enforcement. It's almost like
26:14
Speaker 5: there's this hatred and vindictiveness building up inside of them,
26:18
Speaker 5: this sense that the world is against them, that they
26:21
Speaker 5: have to assert power somewhere. And remember, it's rumored that
26:25
Speaker 5: they have a criminal background, a gain background, which tells
26:29
Speaker 5: me that they've been in an environment where there's socially
26:32
Speaker 5: sanctioned sociopathy, so that not only are they criminals, sadists,
26:38
Speaker 5: rapists on their own, but they've been a part of
26:41
Speaker 5: a society where men do this kind of thing, Nancy.
26:44
Speaker 5: So this becomes a perfect storm, which is the reason
26:48
Speaker 5: why they should not have been here, because we don't
26:50
Speaker 5: really have this in our country where it's a perfect
26:53
Speaker 5: storm of men who are misogynists, who hate women, who
26:57
Speaker 5: want to rape, torture and kill just because everybody else
27:00
Speaker 5: thinks it's okay, and they're stirring each other up.
27:02
Speaker 2: You know, Lynnshaw with me, founder of Lynn's Warriors, committed
27:08
Speaker 2: to ending mistreatment of children. Lynn, I'm just thinking about
27:13
Speaker 2: the way they soak, callously throw her body, and that
27:17
Speaker 2: buy you, we've.
27:18
Speaker 1: Shown you and just walk away, probably laughing.
27:21
Speaker 2: And the image which police have given me because they're
27:26
Speaker 2: spotted on video at a restaurant having a great time
27:31
Speaker 2: and then they leave and like I was telling Doctor Bethany,
27:34
Speaker 2: like going to dinner in a movie for the rest
27:36
Speaker 2: of us, that's a big night out, and instead they
27:40
Speaker 2: go for dinner and then they go get this little girl,
27:44
Speaker 2: and they're stoking each other as they go. Very often
27:48
Speaker 2: people will do things as a group that they wouldn't
27:51
Speaker 2: do on their own. But these two are like minded.
27:55
Speaker 2: And I've given this example before, Lynnshaw. If you're out
27:59
Speaker 2: for a walk on a nature trailer in a park
28:01
Speaker 2: and you see a little rabbit go by, I bet
28:04
Speaker 2: your first instinct is to maybe pet it or feed it,
28:08
Speaker 2: where other instincts would be to grab it and tear.
28:13
Speaker 1: It's neck out and eat it a predator.
28:16
Speaker 2: And when they saw this little girl, can you imagine
28:20
Speaker 2: all the glances the two of them exchanged with each other.
28:23
Speaker 2: They knew what they were going to do as they
28:26
Speaker 2: walked to that bridge, as they forced her to go
28:28
Speaker 2: under the bridge. At any point they could have stopped, Linn,
28:33
Speaker 2: but they didn't. They went so far as to tie
28:36
Speaker 2: her up, strip her under that bridge, I believe, rape her,
28:43
Speaker 2: and then strangle her, most likely manually with their own hands,
28:48
Speaker 2: and then to top it off, throw her into the
28:51
Speaker 2: water like she's trash.
28:53
Speaker 9: Lind Nancy Doctor Bethany hit the nail on the head
28:56
Speaker 9: the way she described the mindset. We work with law enforcement.
29:01
Speaker 9: These criminal members of this gang from Venezuela, it's called
29:04
Speaker 9: trendy Arragua. They have no regard for life at all.
29:09
Speaker 9: I don't even want to compare them to animals. That
29:11
Speaker 9: is too kind. I don't want to put that on animals.
29:14
Speaker 1: They will.
29:15
Speaker 9: They have no regard for girls and women in particular.
29:18
Speaker 9: They take what they want. I don't even know if
29:21
Speaker 9: they planned this. They just saw her. She's a slight
29:24
Speaker 9: little girl. They may have asked her directions I read,
29:27
Speaker 9: and she said, okay, I'll show you this way. They
29:30
Speaker 9: lured her somehow, and they just had the opportunity. I
29:33
Speaker 9: want to repeat, these people are not here legally. They
29:38
Speaker 9: have we work extensively with law enforcement. They have no
29:42
Speaker 9: regard for women and girls. They think that they are
29:45
Speaker 9: just property. They're to be raped, robbed, beaten. And I'm
29:50
Speaker 9: not understanding why all this is allowed allowed to go on.
29:54
Speaker 9: We know all this, we know what is going on.
29:56
Speaker 9: These are called also ghost criminals. They may come and
30:00
Speaker 9: have an ankle monitor. They're cutting them off. Nobody's following
30:04
Speaker 9: up and doing further vetting, and they're disappearing all our country.
30:08
Speaker 9: And I guarantee you, I guarantee you. This is my opinion.
30:11
Speaker 9: They have done this before. They have raped and robbed
30:14
Speaker 9: women before, and perhaps even murdered.
30:16
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, yes, Michael Vanna is joining us.
30:19
Speaker 2: Former Houston Police homicide detective now PI owner of y
30:23
Speaker 2: two investigations. Michael, this is not their first crime. And
30:28
Speaker 2: I don't mean stealing a car or joy riding or
30:32
Speaker 2: a theft by shoplifting or.
30:34
Speaker 1: Smoking a joint.
30:35
Speaker 2: No, no, no, there's a big leap between any of
30:40
Speaker 2: those crimes and kidnapping a little girl, forcing her under
30:44
Speaker 2: that bridge, raping and murdering her. Oh no, no, no, no,
30:48
Speaker 2: this is by far not their first violent crime.
30:51
Speaker 10: I answery. I don't think I think you're going to
30:53
Speaker 10: find an investigation that they probably have a DNA link
30:56
Speaker 10: to other crimes here in the Houston area or around
30:59
Speaker 10: the country. Who knows, But let me tell you this Nancy,
31:01
Speaker 10: I know USTI pleae achieve Saturday White personally. I know
31:04
Speaker 10: the lead homicide investigator personally. These two men are bloodhounds,
31:08
Speaker 10: and with their experience, they're not gonna let this case
31:12
Speaker 10: go away. They're gonna even though they've been arrested in charge,
31:16
Speaker 10: the investigation is just beginning. They have to go and
31:19
Speaker 10: confirm and reconfirm every bit of information that they've followed
31:23
Speaker 10: on that digital trail, on the eyewitnesses, on the medical
31:29
Speaker 10: examiners report. They have to completely completely put a case
31:35
Speaker 10: together to make sure these animals do not get out absolutely,
31:38
Speaker 10: and they're gonna.
31:39
Speaker 5: Do that.
31:46
Speaker 2: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, thank you for joining us.
31:53
Speaker 2: As I've told many a jury, many a jury, do
31:58
Speaker 2: not turn away from the evidence. Does it leave a
32:01
Speaker 2: bad taste in your mouth?
32:03
Speaker 1: Yes? Will you have a bad dream? I do? I do.
32:08
Speaker 2: After learning about what happened to Jocelyn, all I could
32:11
Speaker 2: think about is this happening to.
32:12
Speaker 1: My girl Lucy.
32:16
Speaker 2: But if we turn away from the evidence, we are
32:19
Speaker 2: not prepared to fight what is happening. To fight back
32:25
Speaker 2: against what happened to twelve year old Joscelyn.
32:31
Speaker 8: Listen, Investigators determine the two men lure her into going
32:34
Speaker 8: under the bridge on West Rankin Road. Keeping Joscelyn for
32:37
Speaker 8: over two hours, they take her pants off and tie
32:40
Speaker 8: her up. Joscelyn dies from strangulation before she is thrown
32:44
Speaker 8: into the bayou, where her body is found. After throwing
32:47
Speaker 8: the body into the bayou, Ramos and Martinez are seen
32:49
Speaker 8: walking back toward the apartment they share. Police believe the
32:53
Speaker 8: pair live in the same apartment complex as Joscelyn Nungry.
32:56
Speaker 1: Just strolling back. They're on video, just strolling back.
33:03
Speaker 2: It reminds me of the guy that murdered Rachel Morin.
33:07
Speaker 2: According to the DNA found on her body, he attacked
33:11
Speaker 2: a nine year old little girl in LA before he
33:13
Speaker 2: murdered Rachel in bel Air, Maryland, based on DNA, and
33:20
Speaker 2: he didn't even run from the scene. He's caught on
33:23
Speaker 2: a door cam in LA. He just walks out without
33:26
Speaker 2: a shirt on and just walks away, like.
33:28
Speaker 1: Hey, you know that was nothing, no big deal.
33:31
Speaker 2: I mean, doctor Bethany Marshall, I don't think you're getting
33:34
Speaker 2: my question. The way they threw away the little girl
33:37
Speaker 2: like she was a chewing gum wrapper. Just throw her
33:40
Speaker 2: away after that, just throw her body, half stripped, tied up, strangled,
33:47
Speaker 2: just throw her in the water, and now we know,
33:50
Speaker 2: casually walk off. I'm telling you, this.
33:54
Speaker 1: Was no more than then going to the movie and
33:59
Speaker 1: having dinner. That was it.
34:00
Speaker 2: This was nothing to them, and they casually stroll back
34:03
Speaker 2: to their apartment.
34:05
Speaker 1: They don't even run nothing.
34:07
Speaker 5: No, no, no. Several things about this story bothered me
34:10
Speaker 5: so much. This little girl, Joscelyn, grew up with a
34:13
Speaker 5: mother and in the society, in a neighborhood where she
34:16
Speaker 5: was taught that the world is a safe place. Unlike Venezuela,
34:20
Speaker 5: unlike Haiti, where the two missionary kids, David and Natalie
34:23
Speaker 5: were just murdered by gang violence. There are certain societies, Nancy,
34:27
Speaker 5: where homicide is socially sanctioned, where it's rampant, where people
34:32
Speaker 5: do feel that this is what society has come to.
34:34
Speaker 5: And when those societies infiltrate our society, our kids, who
34:40
Speaker 5: believe that the world is a safe place, continue doing
34:43
Speaker 5: what they normally do, not realizing that there are predators
34:47
Speaker 5: around them. And then the other thing, that's strolling back
34:50
Speaker 5: to their apartment, Nancy, they strangled her, and that means
34:54
Speaker 5: that they were looking into the eyes and into the
34:57
Speaker 5: face of a twelve year old little girl, watching her struggle,
35:02
Speaker 5: taking delight, taking pleasure. I mean, if you really just
35:06
Speaker 5: soak that in. Who does that to a twelve year
35:09
Speaker 5: old who rapes a twelve year old who may not
35:13
Speaker 5: even know about sex yet? I mean the intrusion into
35:17
Speaker 5: this little girl of the most horrifying, unimaginable circumstances for
35:22
Speaker 5: which she was completely unprepared and not even knowing what
35:26
Speaker 5: to do. And Nancy, Yeah, they just toss her into
35:29
Speaker 5: the river. It is beyond disregard for human life. It's sadism,
35:33
Speaker 5: it's thrill, it's hatred, it's wanting to undermine the youth
35:39
Speaker 5: and beauty of such a beautiful member of our society.
35:42
Speaker 5: It's really horrible.
35:43
Speaker 2: When I first started prosecuting violent crimes, the judge would
35:47
Speaker 2: instruct a jury if the evidence supported it.
35:50
Speaker 1: On flight as in dish of guilt.
35:55
Speaker 2: Now and most jurisdictions, the judge doesn't instruct a jury.
36:00
Speaker 2: That flight can be used as an indication of guilt,
36:05
Speaker 2: but the prosecutor can still argue it. And in this case,
36:09
Speaker 2: you want to tell me they didn't do it, because
36:12
Speaker 2: when HPD Houston PD shows up at the apartment complex
36:17
Speaker 2: where these two illegals live, and they get a bullhorn,
36:21
Speaker 2: a loud speaker, and they order the men.
36:23
Speaker 1: To come out. What do they do?
36:26
Speaker 2: One of the guys tries to jump off a balcony
36:30
Speaker 2: for a m but wisely, Houston PD and this detective
36:36
Speaker 2: is really something else.
36:37
Speaker 1: It's Stephen Hope guy. They have the whole place surrounded.
36:42
Speaker 2: There you go jumping off a balcony to Crawley Bill
36:48
Speaker 2: joining US investigative reporter kPr ST too. They're in Houston, really,
36:54
Speaker 2: I mean, if a cop knocks on your door, do
36:57
Speaker 2: you try to run out the back and jump off
36:59
Speaker 2: about Absolutely not.
37:01
Speaker 7: And it was really interesting because we were out there
37:05
Speaker 7: that morning. We didn't see that time of the rest
37:08
Speaker 7: just afterwards when they were placed in handcuffs. But a
37:11
Speaker 7: lot of the neighbors out there told me that they
37:14
Speaker 7: didn't really interact with those men too much. They'd only
37:16
Speaker 7: lived at that apartment complex for maybe a month two months.
37:22
Speaker 7: I think the only time they really saw them out
37:24
Speaker 7: was a barbecue that happened a couple weeks prior. But
37:28
Speaker 7: they didn't have many details about, you know, what those
37:31
Speaker 7: men were like or if they seemed suspicious at all
37:33
Speaker 7: so definitely concerning if they're trying to run from police.
37:37
Speaker 3: They took away my first born. A mom pleads for
37:41
Speaker 3: killers to be brought to justice after her twelve year
37:44
Speaker 3: old daughters slaying.
37:46
Speaker 2: Now we know the two men that have been arrested
37:50
Speaker 2: in the rape and murder of a twelve year old
37:54
Speaker 2: little Houston girl, Jocelyn secretly and nefariously came into our
38:01
Speaker 2: country to.
38:01
Speaker 1: Do nothing but rek have it.
38:04
Speaker 2: They were not here, according to the Statue of Liberty,
38:09
Speaker 2: seeking a new life. They came here to continue a
38:13
Speaker 2: life of violent crime. And it's not the first time.
38:17
Speaker 2: Does the name Lacan Riley ring a bell? Because I'll
38:22
Speaker 2: never forget the name.
38:23
Speaker 1: Listen.
38:24
Speaker 8: In Athens, Georgia, nursing student lake and Riley is late
38:27
Speaker 8: returning from a jog at the University of Georgia campus
38:29
Speaker 8: and a roommate becomes concerned surging in the area she
38:32
Speaker 8: would jog. Her body is found in a Coney Forest
38:35
Speaker 8: park near Lake Herrick. Riley's body is found covered in
38:38
Speaker 8: brush and she's been killed by blood, forced trauma, and asphyxiation.
38:41
Speaker 8: A sketch of a possible person of interest leads investigators
38:44
Speaker 8: to Jose Antonio Dibara Ibarra is from Venezuela, entered the
38:48
Speaker 8: USA illegally with a fake wife, was sent to New York,
38:51
Speaker 8: left his fake wife and ended up in Athens, Georgia
38:54
Speaker 8: with his brother. Ibarra now facing murder charges in the
38:57
Speaker 8: killing of Lakeln Riley, his fake And what about Elizabeth Medina.
39:03
Speaker 8: When high school cheerleader Lizabeth Medina doesn't join her team
39:06
Speaker 8: for the Christmas parade, her mother races home to see why.
39:09
Speaker 8: In the bathroom, Jackala Medina finds her daughter in the bathtub, dead,
39:14
Speaker 8: stabbed to death. Police tracks suspicious activity on Lizabeth's missing
39:17
Speaker 8: cell phone, leading them to Rafael Govea Romero twenty three,
39:22
Speaker 8: illegally in the United States of America from Mexico. Investigators
39:26
Speaker 8: determine he's been stalking Lizabeth Medina and was on probation
39:30
Speaker 8: at the time of her murder, and then.
39:32
Speaker 2: He stabs her dead and Mommy has to find her
39:36
Speaker 2: daughter dead in the bathtub when she's supposed to be
39:39
Speaker 2: in a Christmas parade.
39:41
Speaker 1: That's how she found out.
39:43
Speaker 2: Mommy races for more to see her daughter in the parade,
39:46
Speaker 2: not wanting to miss a thing, and the daughter's not there,
39:50
Speaker 2: so she races home to find her daughter dead.
39:55
Speaker 1: When will it end? I can't control what Congress is doing.
40:00
Speaker 12: You know.
40:00
Speaker 2: That's like yelling out the window on Third Avenue. But
40:03
Speaker 2: what I can do is ask for help in this
40:07
Speaker 2: case to make sure these two are convicted. Seven one
40:12
Speaker 2: three three zero eight three six one hundred repeat seven
40:17
Speaker 2: one three three zero eight three six hundred. Help us
40:24
Speaker 2: build this case. Guys, we need your help finding this
40:30
Speaker 2: missing thirteen year old little girl as Stefani Rodriguez.
40:34
Speaker 1: She vanished from.
40:35
Speaker 2: Her home in the middle of the night, Oka City,
40:38
Speaker 2: Oklahoma as Stefani last June twelve. She's five two, one
40:43
Speaker 2: hundred and twenty pounds. She's just thirteen years old. If
40:50
Speaker 2: you have any info on this beautiful little girl, please
40:54
Speaker 2: call Oklahoma City PD four zero five two ninety seven
40:58
Speaker 2: one one two nine or Oklahoma CDPD at four zero
41:02
Speaker 2: five two three one twenty one twenty one. I want
41:07
Speaker 2: to thank all of our guests for being with us
41:10
Speaker 2: tonight as our prayers go out to this little girl,
41:15
Speaker 2: Jocelyn and her family, her mother and her little brother.
41:21
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye friend,