Latest / Women Disrupting Tech / The Power of Workations and Generous Leadership with Gina Schinkel | Ep 129

Transcript

The Power of Workations and Generous Leadership with Gina Schinkel | Ep 129 · Women Disrupting Tech

• 0:10
  Welcome to Women Disrupting Tech.
• 0:13
  My name is Dear Kanupkas, and on this podcast I give the women
• 0:16
  who work in tech the platform they need to inspire and empower
• 0:20
  each other. Join me on a journey into the
• 0:23
  world of entrepreneurship, funding biases, and role models
• 0:28
  to discover the strategies. For success in the tech
• 0:31
  industry. In other words, how women can
• 0:34
  disrupt tech. Are you ready to listen?
• 0:44
  Hey, welcome back to Women Disrupting Tech and thank you
• 0:47
  for tuning into episode 129. Most founders I speak to didn't
• 0:54
  get to where they are by climbing the ladder step by step
• 0:58
  or by following a standard path to becoming a founder.
• 1:03
  Instead, they got there by following their curiosity, by
• 1:08
  taking the long road, and by choosing experiences that maybe
• 1:13
  didn't make sense at the time, but ended up shaping everything
• 1:17
  they built later. My guest today is Tina Schinkel,
• 1:21
  and she's a perfect example of that.
• 1:25
  She lived and worked all over the world, from the Caribbean to
• 1:29
  Australia and New Zealand, where she worked in the travel
• 1:32
  industry, to Dublin where she worked for LinkedIn.
• 1:36
  And instead of choosing between tech and travel, she found a way
• 1:40
  to combine them into something meaningful.
• 1:43
  Out of that came Drift a Wave and Lear Wave 2 ventures built
• 1:47
  around the same simple idea. When people gather in the right
• 1:52
  environment, they connect differently, they think
• 1:55
  differently, and they work differently.
• 1:58
  In this episode, we explore how Gina takes vacations from being
• 2:02
  a nice perk to tool that helps companies attract and retain the
• 2:05
  right people, how taking a go giver approach helps our open
• 2:10
  doors, and why you don't always need to choose a single path to
• 2:14
  build something that lasts. Plus, you'll hear how she
• 2:18
  experiments with new tools and pushes herself into new
• 2:23
  territory just to see what's possible.
• 2:26
  So when you're ready to listen and learn about the power of
• 2:30
  vocations and generous leadership, please.
• 2:33
  Welcome to women disrupting tech Sheena Skinkle.
• 2:38
  Before we start, I want to highlight an event that embrace
• 2:41
  health organizers in the evening of free December 2025 at Equals
• 2:46
  in Amsterdam titled Understanding Women's Health.
• 2:51
  As you know, I'm really passionate about the need for
• 2:53
  everyone, women and men, to learn more about how Women's
• 2:58
  Health works and how it is different from the health of
• 3:01
  men. Visiting this event will
• 3:03
  therefore help both men and women better understand Women's
• 3:07
  Health and how it impacts energy, mood, productivity and
• 3:12
  overall well-being at every stage of life.
• 3:15
  For more information and for tickets, please check out the
• 3:18
  link in the show notes. Under Featured Events.
• 3:21
  Or search for understanding Women's Health in the Luma app.
• 3:28
  Hey Gina Skinkle, welcome to women disrupting tech.
• 3:31
  Good to have you question. I always ask at the start is how
• 3:35
  you got. Into your current job.
• 3:36
  Current position at Driftwave and Leaderwave.
• 3:41
  Yes. So I've actually defied the
• 3:44
  traditional career path years ago because my will to explore
• 3:49
  the world's nature cultures was bigger than jumping into a
• 3:53
  caress straight away. And then I just kept on finding
• 3:57
  new adventures, worked across the globe, found a lot of love
• 4:01
  for my job working as a travel consultant in Australia, moved
• 4:06
  with the company to New Zealand and then the road got shut down.
• 4:13
  Probably the worst timing to be a travel consultant.
• 4:19
  After 2 1/2 years of not having been at home in the Netherlands,
• 4:25
  I flew back. And then after a while I
• 4:30
  actually ended up working on the yards and then by a referral I
• 4:34
  ended up at LinkedIn. So during that time, the dream
• 4:39
  to start my own travel company was put on hold and somehow
• 4:45
  things miraculously worked out. So I'm actually super happy that
• 4:51
  I got the opportunity to link to work at LinkedIn.
• 4:55
  I think we can all acknowledge how powerful the platform has
• 4:59
  come today in terms of opportunities.
• 5:02
  So it's been really special to see that from the inside as well
• 5:06
  and definitely up levelled my game there doing tech sales,
• 5:11
  learning all about company strategies, pretty much like an
• 5:14
  MBA in a payroll. But the great thing about this
• 5:17
  was because of obviously the remote boom, all of a sudden
• 5:21
  we're remote workers. Vocations became a reality and I
• 5:28
  figured out someone had to go and organise these things so we
• 5:32
  could do that together. And then obviously also
• 5:36
  understood that there was an opportunity on the B to B side
• 5:40
  of things. So yeah, in secret is started
• 5:43
  building step by step from business plan to figuring out
• 5:51
  where to start, how I can make sure that everything comes
• 5:53
  together, which is already quite, quite an adventure by
• 5:58
  itself. Yeah, and then here we are
• 6:00
  today. I'm officially the founder of a
• 6:03
  tour operator providing team retreats, vacations and company
• 6:09
  off sites. And obviously because I was
• 6:14
  spending a lot of time in the world of tech, many of my
• 6:16
  friends work in tech. And during my discovery journey,
• 6:20
  said to say when founding Drift Away, I started visiting tech
• 6:24
  events and one of them was the Web Summit.
• 6:27
  And this is where the AI curtain pretty much lifted for me.
• 6:33
  And around the same time, I also met my mentor who is super tech
• 6:39
  AI savvy and all about exploring what's possible.
• 6:44
  So I got really inspired by that and feared I would double down
• 6:48
  on the opportunity that this could offer, especially as the
• 6:52
  first time founder starting a tool operate as a site hustle is
• 6:56
  quite intense. The more the smarter I could
• 7:01
  work the battery would be for everybody.
• 7:05
  And then I pretty much I got I got hooked on it and I love
• 7:09
  seeing all the new updates, what's possible.
• 7:12
  And so when I decided to focus on Drift away 100% and resigned
• 7:19
  from my corporate role, which is quite special, obviously, after
• 7:24
  all that time, I learned back in the Netherlands and I was kind
• 7:28
  of surprised that it wasn't a topic that was living so much
• 7:32
  with everybody. I felt like many people were
• 7:38
  using it in different ways. And I also realized that I
• 7:41
  learned so much from the people around me.
• 7:44
  So then I decided to set up Leader Wave to pretty much share
• 7:49
  the voices of leaders in AI experiments out there and in the
• 7:55
  future of work and at the same time also connect the talent and
• 8:00
  leaders so they can actually learn from each other.
• 8:03
  And it's actually been quite a special journey so far already
• 8:06
  Beautiful things have happened because of it.
• 8:10
  Friendships, business partnerships, direct invite to
• 8:16
  audition with Ted X and just more magic keeps on happening.
• 8:23
  I think that's, I think that's really special that you start
• 8:26
  somewhere with an ID or a vision or actually in both of my cases,
• 8:31
  I felt like that's something that I maybe saw I was missing
• 8:35
  or something that I would wish that was there.
• 8:39
  And then for other people to yeah, to pretty much fall in
• 8:42
  love with the idea as well, or wanted to be a part of it or
• 8:46
  wanted to support. I think in general that's a very
• 8:50
  special process, which I think is a big reward of becoming an
• 8:53
  entrepreneur. It absolutely is.
• 8:56
  Sounds like it anyway. So there's a couple of questions
• 9:00
  I have. One is first you switched from
• 9:03
  being in a tour operator environment to LinkedIn and then
• 9:07
  you switched back. I was wondering what what is the
• 9:11
  bigger love tech or the travel? It's funny you ask.
• 9:14
  I think actually where I'm positioned now is where all my
• 9:19
  roles come together because I do love travel, but I'm also super
• 9:24
  curious person and I really love what's possible with tech today.
• 9:31
  This way I can kind of stay connected with both of my
• 9:34
  worlds, so to say. And one thing that I also found
• 9:37
  is obviously I always felt like I had to choose, right?
• 9:43
  That's completely changed today. You can now make a career
• 9:47
  basically from anywhere where there is Wi-Fi.
• 9:51
  And at the same time, I also experienced that obviously in
• 9:55
  tech in Dublin. There's many people who are high
• 9:59
  achievers, very ambitious, going after their goals.
• 10:03
  And I think it's just such a beautiful thing that they are
• 10:05
  now also able to take a bit more control of their life and also
• 10:11
  pursue like, yeah, this part of freedom and exploration that
• 10:17
  life can offer. What has been your experience
• 10:20
  coming back to the Netherlands because you don't come from
• 10:23
  Dublin, from from let's say an environment that is really tech
• 10:28
  savvy, high achievers, people going after their goals and the
• 10:32
  rise of AI coming in. And then you end up in the
• 10:36
  Netherlands. And then, then what do you do
• 10:39
  you see a sort of synchronized development or do you see a
• 10:43
  total difference in in how it's perceived and executed?
• 10:49
  To be honest, this this is a bit of an odd one because for about
• 10:54
  1415 years I lived across the globe and it's definitely had a
• 10:59
  big impact on who I've become. Like I even noticed today
• 11:05
  walking in the train, like I was listening to, to Latin music and
• 11:09
  all of a sudden I could already my, my body movement even starts
• 11:12
  to change. And it's just the small things
• 11:16
  that become a part of you. But then before the pandemic, I
• 11:20
  was living in Australia and New Zealand, which is also kind of
• 11:23
  Western culture. And then I moved to Ireland.
• 11:27
  So actually for once again, I was actually pretty close to
• 11:31
  home and I was working for the Benelux region.
• 11:35
  So many of the colleagues on our team were Dutch as well.
• 11:40
  Many of my clients were Dutch, but obviously there were people
• 11:45
  from many, many nationalities. And I think that's what I
• 11:48
  really, really love about being there because I've always spent
• 11:52
  so much time in this, like tourist places.
• 11:54
  So I was so surprised that you could also find this in a place
• 11:59
  where people are like building careers and doing beautiful
• 12:02
  things. But then coming back to the
• 12:04
  Netherlands, I think it's different.
• 12:08
  I think if I would have moved to Amsterdam, I think you can kind
• 12:12
  of get that vibe. Obviously many of my colleagues
• 12:15
  from LinkedIn have also already moved back to the Netherlands.
• 12:21
  And I, I don't know, I find it, I find it a hard question
• 12:26
  because I have so many friends across the globe that I still
• 12:30
  touch base with. So somebody can be in.
• 12:34
  One of my good friends lives in Wales, the other one lives in
• 12:37
  Australia, the other one is still in Latam.
• 12:41
  And I do think in general Dutch people are very open and
• 12:47
  actually in this point, to be honest, I'm kind of happy that
• 12:50
  I'm here now so I can hopefully help out with a bit of positive
• 12:56
  change in this direction because it is really important.
• 13:00
  The Netherlands is actually not doing so well at the moment.
• 13:05
  So I would really love to see Holland taking this new
• 13:11
  technology to their advantage and really spin out incredible
• 13:16
  concepts and companies or like try to reinvent the dots.
• 13:20
  And I must say, I do see positive changes around me.
• 13:24
  Maybe it's also because I don't know, maybe it's more people
• 13:28
  speak more about it. Maybe it's because what I've
• 13:31
  been searching and the people that I surround myself with, but
• 13:34
  I do definitely see positive changes.
• 13:37
  So I think that's, yeah, I think that makes me proud that she's
• 13:41
  so to say. I'm away a lot, but when I come
• 13:44
  back I try to always make the most time of it and reconnect
• 13:48
  with everybody here. Cool, let's talk about drift
• 13:53
  away for for a minute. What you do is these are my
• 13:58
  words. Let's say organize corporate or
• 14:03
  off sites and team work Asians. I just want to understand how
• 14:10
  can this help companies, especially startups, but also
• 14:15
  maybe more, more SME type of companies perform better to have
• 14:21
  that go away or to have this special retreat?
• 14:27
  How does it play in except from a benefits point of view that
• 14:31
  it's obviously nice to travel? Obviously, it's a really special
• 14:36
  way to get to know other people. I think we can all remember
• 14:40
  those moments where we did something that was new and the
• 14:44
  bond that it created with that other person or the other
• 14:48
  people. So breaking down the silos,
• 14:54
  really opening up your mind to new things.
• 15:01
  It can also be filled in different ways by companies,
• 15:05
  right? Some companies come together to
• 15:07
  do like a workshop or a strategic meeting.
• 15:11
  But for example, let's say if it's a remote or distributed
• 15:14
  company, maybe they don't see each other that much, so they
• 15:19
  want to spend a little bit more time on having that actual
• 15:24
  bonding in place. People can be a little bit more
• 15:29
  vulnerable, so maybe at times even a little bit more honest,
• 15:33
  or they were dared to ask for advice a little bit quicker.
• 15:39
  Obviously with smaller companies there's not too much hierarchy
• 15:42
  in place. It is a tremendous talent
• 15:46
  magnet, so obviously people love talking about it.
• 15:51
  It's really a moment to be lived towards too.
• 15:54
  And yeah, obviously you can take that on a spin off for employer
• 16:01
  branding. Maybe you have seen some compass
• 16:05
  on LinkedIn already. So it can be actually very
• 16:09
  helpful to attract talent. And also obviously setting up a
• 16:13
  startup is not that easy. It may require a lot from
• 16:18
  people. So it can also really be a
• 16:22
  moment of celebration and appreciation.
• 16:25
  And then as a result, obviously you can see a lift in
• 16:29
  engagement, productivity, employee happiness score, yes.
• 16:35
  So there are many different benefits.
• 16:37
  OK. So for the for the for the
• 16:42
  remote and the hybrid teams, it's pretty clear because they
• 16:44
  don't meet that often. So it's it's a natural way to
• 16:49
  pull all the troops together and really connect with each other,
• 16:53
  have a bit more open and vulnerable conversations.
• 16:58
  What do you say to founders who are like, no, we want to go, we
• 17:02
  have this back to the office mandate and we really, we want
• 17:08
  to keep it in house. What are they missing out?
• 17:13
  Top talent. Sorry, that was a cheeky one.
• 17:18
  It's kind of true. It really depends.
• 17:20
  Like I do have respect for people who do want to go to the
• 17:23
  office. For some people it works better
• 17:26
  for me. I found with my energy levels, I
• 17:29
  prefer to like have proper focus hours when I work with all.
• 17:36
  But then when I go and meet my colleagues, I mean we were
• 17:39
  pretty much hybrid at meeting. I make sure that I focus on my
• 17:45
  colleagues, that it really became a place of meeting and
• 17:48
  reconnecting. I think companies that do have
• 17:54
  offices and require their people to come in, you do see the trend
• 17:59
  of work Asians develop further. Even especially like in the
• 18:03
  Netherlands. We actually have a lot of talent
• 18:05
  that we get we bring in from abroad as well.
• 18:08
  I mean, it's quite special that today these people can reunite
• 18:12
  with their family, right? Because it's quite, it's quite a
• 18:14
  thing to move potentially to the other side of the road.
• 18:18
  Maybe you have three weeks holiday per year, luckiest in
• 18:22
  the Netherlands. And then when are you going to
• 18:24
  spend it on your holiday and when are you actually going to
• 18:26
  spend it to say hi to your friends and family at home?
• 18:29
  So that's one big thing, but also people take the time to
• 18:34
  step out of their daily routine, maybe especially in the Nellens,
• 18:37
  like the winter can be very grim.
• 18:40
  So they'll take off to let's say a ski resort or summer where
• 18:45
  it's nice and warm around the same time zone, right?
• 18:48
  And people really like flourish up, They feel engaged again,
• 18:52
  they feel more productive actually clients like as well if
• 18:55
  you're in a customer facing role.
• 18:59
  So then again, also there's some companies, they give a certain
• 19:03
  amount of time to people to actually go somewhere, wherever
• 19:07
  they want to go. There are companies that decide
• 19:12
  to go all together even up to two times per year potentially
• 19:17
  like throughout the year. This is one example.
• 19:19
  This company agency, they would incentivize their bonus
• 19:25
  structure around it as well during the year.
• 19:27
  So certain milestones were hit, then this would add up as extras
• 19:32
  during their vacation abroad. And then they can share that
• 19:35
  experience together and it really would lift up their team
• 19:38
  spirit and team culture. It really helped attracting the
• 19:42
  right talent as well. So yeah, it's actually being
• 19:46
  used in very different ways. We drift a wave and really
• 19:51
  looking at, OK, obviously the amazing locations and
• 19:55
  activities, but also how can we make sure that the right people
• 19:58
  are there to find the right value.
• 20:02
  But also looking at upskilling locations to make sure that
• 20:08
  people can go somewhere to a different environment and really
• 20:12
  open up, reconnect, and then have amazing takeaways from
• 20:17
  there. OK, so just out of curiosity,
• 20:21
  what kind of locations were, Yeah, locations are we talking
• 20:26
  about? What kind of countries?
• 20:29
  What are kind of? So practically the luck is that
• 20:35
  because we are a tour operator, we can pretty much organise
• 20:39
  anything around the world. For example, one we hosted was
• 20:44
  in Croatia, there is one upcoming in Grand Canaria, and
• 20:52
  obviously we're always out on the hunt for the most beautiful
• 20:55
  places. We also do work with local
• 20:59
  partners, so we can always make sure that everything is
• 21:03
  organized as it should be and that we're also ready in case
• 21:08
  something happens, that we can navigate challenges quicker,
• 21:11
  make sure everything is as it should be.
• 21:14
  So to say. It really depends on the time
• 21:17
  zone where people are coming from as well.
• 21:20
  How much are they going to work, Where are they coming from?
• 21:24
  Is this realistic in terms of budget flights?
• 21:28
  What about visas especially? This is the thing when you're
• 21:31
  talking about remote companies, right?
• 21:34
  The talent maybe from all across the globe.
• 21:38
  So these are really all things that we keep in mind together
• 21:43
  also with the goals of the company, like some want to be
• 21:46
  active, some want to be more chilled, one wants to go into
• 21:52
  proper sunshine, the other one wants to go skiing or do the
• 21:55
  craziest sports. So it really, it really, really
• 22:00
  depends. Yeah.
• 22:02
  OK. So what I'm hearing you say also
• 22:04
  is that the workation is not necessarily only work.
• 22:07
  No, it's not. It is about of course, you go
• 22:12
  with your colleagues. So there will be a certain
• 22:14
  amount of work, but it's the primary goal is maybe or maybe
• 22:18
  not to get work done, but also to do other things in addition
• 22:23
  to have experiences together. Yeah.
• 22:25
  So it can be quite kind of confusing when you look at it
• 22:29
  from an international level because around the globe a
• 22:33
  vocation may be seen more as something you do as an
• 22:35
  individual. And then there are some groups
• 22:39
  going. Whereas in the Netherlands, I do
• 22:42
  think, and Germany as well, that's the defining name we kind
• 22:46
  of use. Yeah.
• 22:48
  It's also not really like geometry, right?
• 22:51
  It's a vocation. You go to another place and you
• 22:53
  work there with your colleagues in case of if you go with the
• 22:58
  company. But obviously is not something
• 23:03
  that we completely reinvented there.
• 23:05
  We're always already company offsites or company retreats
• 23:11
  where people come together where they may have a certain session
• 23:15
  even around culture alignment, inspiration, yeah, to change
• 23:22
  mindset, so on. So I think it's not new to that
• 23:28
  extent, it's just got a different source.
• 23:31
  Yeah, yeah, because I was about to say this.
• 23:33
  This is I've I've done pretty big bunch of off sites myself as
• 23:38
  an employee by the way. So it's that in itself it either
• 23:43
  was yeah, we called it always a hey sassy.
• 23:45
  So in that sense it's not new, but I think what is sort of new
• 23:51
  ish is that destinations have changed because it's not just
• 23:58
  let's say I would go let's say from workplace in Rotterdam to
• 24:03
  to, to an off site in Ada or close to Arnhem, which is in the
• 24:08
  same country. Yeah, we would go to hotel, but
• 24:11
  that was just about it. But the work Asians that you
• 24:15
  organise are obviously in a different level.
• 24:19
  Yeah. We're spoiled, yeah.
• 24:23
  Yeah. But is that is, is that about
• 24:25
  spoiling people? Where is that about the making
• 24:30
  the change of scenery a bit bigger to enhance the quality of
• 24:34
  the outcome? I think obviously climate
• 24:39
  probably also value for money and in special the complete
• 24:46
  change of scenery, culture, different impressions, different
• 24:51
  types of food. Especially in Europe, right?
• 24:55
  You move a few hours into a different direction and voila,
• 24:59
  different country, different culture, different cuisine.
• 25:02
  Absolutely. So we've talked about the
• 25:06
  employer part of it, we talked about the employee part of it.
• 25:10
  It's obviously good to have a change of scenery and, and to
• 25:14
  your point, different foods can be really delicious.
• 25:20
  But for especially for, for investors in, in start-ups, it's
• 25:25
  sort of they want retention, they want speed of execution,
• 25:30
  they want low cost. How does a good workation fit
• 25:35
  into that? Because you talked about talent
• 25:37
  attractions well. In the start up, there are
• 25:40
  obviously many, many moving parts and yeah, it's super
• 25:47
  important that people feel connected, like they belong,
• 25:51
  they feel engaged, they feel productive, obviously that they
• 25:56
  can communicate with each other clearly.
• 25:58
  And also, yeah, really that that moment of of doing something
• 26:04
  together because it is quite special that you're able to
• 26:09
  hopefully achieve those goal, the goals so that those people
• 26:15
  are seen as well in full alignment.
• 26:18
  And then obviously you can tie different KPIs to that.
• 26:25
  And I would obviously recommend to measure those throughout the
• 26:29
  whole year so that you can also see what changes or what really
• 26:35
  helps the company move further. Especially I would say in early
• 26:40
  days when people have on different hats or roles and you
• 26:46
  do have that, that, that close culture, you want to keep that,
• 26:50
  right? You want to keep those people
• 26:53
  close to you if they're still feeling comfortable in the room
• 26:56
  where they are themselves as well.
• 26:59
  And then as the company starts growing, especially when they
• 27:03
  get investors and they're really, they're really
• 27:06
  increasing their headcount, this is where the company kind of
• 27:10
  goes and starts going in split, right, and moves into little
• 27:14
  islands that you get like these little subcultures.
• 27:19
  And yeah, people are not as connected as in the beginning
• 27:23
  anymore. This is also why I love
• 27:26
  communities because this is something that it's not just
• 27:29
  something for outside, it's also something within the community.
• 27:31
  And I think digitalisation plays a very important role in here
• 27:37
  because you now actually do have that opportunity to bring those
• 27:42
  people together already. I mean, even sometimes if you're
• 27:45
  in a a larger office than your office that's growing.
• 27:49
  If you're in different departments, yeah, maybe you're
• 27:52
  also not constantly meeting up. You can measure it through the
• 27:55
  data. Employees are actually happier.
• 27:58
  So it's employee MPs plays role in here.
• 28:02
  What order are KPIs? Can you give a few examples?
• 28:06
  Of. What KPIs you can measure?
• 28:08
  There's number of people you can actually.
• 28:10
  Attract. Of course there's retention so
• 28:14
  attrition would be 1. Not first one but employee.
• 28:20
  OK so tell me a bit about that. So how does it shorten time to
• 28:25
  hire? Does it make it easier for
• 28:27
  people to join a company if they know there are work Asians
• 28:32
  involved? Yes.
• 28:34
  So even obviously employer branding, I think employer
• 28:38
  branding is often misunderstood by companies.
• 28:41
  There is so much power in there and especially if you add a
• 28:46
  vocation or treat or something to that, that's where you're
• 28:51
  also humanizing your friend, right?
• 28:53
  And people kind of want to be a part of that energy as well as
• 28:56
  something is happening there. And obviously the company is
• 28:59
  also investing in them. So definitely helps with a
• 29:04
  reduced time to hire, especially as the startup you're really
• 29:08
  like battling. Like how how do people know
• 29:12
  about the name of your company? Maybe you do not have all this
• 29:16
  money for extreme F, but just right because you're just
• 29:18
  starting out. But this is something that can
• 29:21
  help. And and obviously when they know
• 29:24
  you, you may even become top of mind for the right type of
• 29:29
  people, because I see they're already applying even before
• 29:33
  you're you're looking. The same happened with us.
• 29:38
  Like I hired before I was hiring because they came to me and I
• 29:45
  saw a lot of potential in them. So I was like, OK, let's go.
• 29:50
  So it, it, it does really work. I've seen it in the data when I
• 29:53
  was still working at LinkedIn, but I've also seen it myself
• 29:56
  right now. And so I do think many more
• 30:01
  startups can benefit from that. Probably also the cost to hire.
• 30:10
  If somebody comes in and finds you, it's a lot cheaper than
• 30:14
  working with recruiters or even what would be the cost if you
• 30:21
  don't do it right? What if somebody decides to
• 30:24
  leave because they do not feel connected or they do not feel
• 30:27
  appreciated? SHRM said that it can be like up
• 30:31
  to two times of their yearly salary.
• 30:34
  Well, if you hired someone with a lot of talent and you just
• 30:39
  spend like at least six months to onboard them properly or like
• 30:44
  really have them. Perform to their.
• 30:47
  Yeah, to their. Passion, yeah, You'd be a really
• 30:49
  great performer. I mean, a great performer wasn't
• 30:52
  really four times more productive than the average.
• 30:55
  But in times of AI that can be, I don't even know, it can be
• 31:01
  about 400 times more productive, so to say.
• 31:05
  So yeah, I would definitely recommend to look at different
• 31:10
  things. Some people obviously may also
• 31:13
  measure their brand awareness. That's also another thing you
• 31:18
  can even, you may be able to tie customer satisfaction into it,
• 31:23
  right. If you're, if your employees are
• 31:25
  happy, you show up with, with, with a happy face.
• 31:30
  You can hear it in people's voices even when they're calling
• 31:34
  online. But actually, if you set up a
• 31:37
  different narrative around the vocation retreat or offsite, OK,
• 31:41
  which goals did we set? Did we actually achieve what we
• 31:46
  want to achieve? What kind of even if you tie
• 31:50
  skills to it, OK, how can we measure this?
• 31:54
  How much personal growth do we see in the people?
• 31:58
  How are teams collaborating? How innovative are we as a
• 32:04
  company diversion including, yeah, yeah.
• 32:09
  How do we measure on that scale? OK, cool.
• 32:12
  Can we come come with a few more later, but I think that were
• 32:15
  fair few. Yeah, there's a lot to impact
• 32:18
  already. So one question I still had, if
• 32:23
  I understand correctly, one of the main drivers for for the
• 32:27
  work Asian is to improve culture in the broadest sense of the
• 32:31
  word. So improve work culture,
• 32:34
  collaboration, belonging, indeed make people more innovative,
• 32:40
  make people teams more innovative and more agile.
• 32:43
  Perhaps also, yes, I think in sort of educational element to
• 32:53
  it in, in the sense that you can actually use that workation to
• 32:56
  up skill people or incentivize people to up skill people,
• 32:59
  right. So how does that tie in then to
• 33:06
  to leader wave? Because that's a slightly
• 33:10
  different platform, but it's it hinges sort of because of leader
• 33:17
  leadership also on sort of the same elements, I would think.
• 33:25
  Where am I wrong? Yeah, Yeah, it does.
• 33:28
  It does tie into each other. It's still a baby, but I think
• 33:31
  it's like more, yeah, focused towards like the entrepreneurial
• 33:36
  spirit. And in terms of trends, like,
• 33:40
  OK, what's happening, we've always done this.
• 33:44
  If we understand what's going on and how we can adapt to that and
• 33:51
  share that experience with other people, potentially as a
• 33:57
  community collective, at some point we could go on a vacation
• 34:01
  or offset together. And then those people know that
• 34:03
  they will benefit from that because they have found that
• 34:07
  value there and they already have been upskilling together.
• 34:12
  So that's something towards the future as well.
• 34:14
  Right now we're hosting local events and pop up events and,
• 34:20
  and then obviously Drift Away is more company and team focus.
• 34:27
  So it it, it does play a different role, but it's kind of
• 34:30
  like, OK, leader wave is kind of showing us where we're going and
• 34:35
  then Drift Away translates it into the organization, so to
• 34:39
  say. OK.
• 34:41
  So let's talk about a couple of trends in terms of the future of
• 34:46
  work, because there's AI. Do you use AI in your own
• 34:51
  business like Driftway for Leader Wave to to actually
• 34:55
  execute? Yeah, yeah.
• 34:56
  It's been incredible. So obviously, like the second it
• 35:00
  got available, I was having this GPT agent or agent.
• 35:05
  It wasn't an agent. It's like you call it a GPT,
• 35:08
  right? Just save some information in
• 35:10
  there and then that would help me so much.
• 35:15
  For example, writing blogs or like stuffing would used to take
• 35:21
  hours. I think there's also very much
• 35:24
  contributed for me being able to execute a lot on the side of my
• 35:28
  actual job. For Leader Wave.
• 35:34
  I was like, OK, you, you are driving experiments.
• 35:38
  Stay in this mode, give it a go. And I tried like 2 to 5 code
• 35:43
  this website, which also worked. And then obviously this tool is
• 35:47
  also developing. So I'm following up on that a
• 35:50
  lot. And I made it a complete
• 35:53
  priority to continuously find out what's there.
• 35:58
  So there are tremendous image tools out there, like Mid
• 36:04
  Journey. Then obviously Google just
• 36:07
  launched, what is it, Banana? And if you look at Runway, you
• 36:16
  can make the most incredible videos even out of those images.
• 36:20
  Like we literally now have Hollywood from wherever,
• 36:24
  wherever we have Internet, we can operate.
• 36:27
  Even when I use tools like Adobe.
• 36:31
  I mean, I don't know if you've ever tried to remove a
• 36:36
  background. Free AI, Yeah.
• 36:39
  Yeah, yeah, that was pretty until we had removed background
• 36:43
  told BG. Then it became sort of better,
• 36:47
  but that was I think a sort of spin off by Adobe, or at least
• 36:51
  it was made by people from Adobe who had technology and then sort
• 36:57
  of used it. Yeah, and right now one click
• 37:01
  last. Who gone?
• 37:03
  In canvite. Yeah, or Instagram, if you
• 37:08
  upload a few videos, boom, video.
• 37:12
  So it saves so much time. I don't want to do those things.
• 37:16
  I don't want to spend hours on editing, though.
• 37:19
  I do that when I make a proper video in like Premiere.
• 37:22
  I'm not the best skilled, but for example.
• 37:24
  Then again, it helps me when I don't know the answer.
• 37:27
  I'll have my, I have my AI tell me what to do when I'm type
• 37:33
  coding for the website even. I'm just going to make it think
• 37:38
  that it's that it's a developer or maybe UX designer.
• 37:44
  And for example, when something doesn't work out, I'm like, OK,
• 37:48
  get the CTO involved. Yeah, it just feels something
• 37:53
  unreal. So it's still start giggling,
• 37:55
  but I may open it. I think that it was the OR
• 37:59
  Chachi petite thing that it was the CTO.
• 38:02
  Then it got involved in the lovable chat and it basically
• 38:08
  like in a nice way, whooped his ass.
• 38:11
  And then it actually did the things that I wanted it to do.
• 38:15
  And I tried so many problems and it wasn't working.
• 38:18
  So yeah, it's kind of a fun adventure in that way as well to
• 38:22
  figure out what works and what doesn't.
• 38:26
  Actually, a few days ago, I finally got access to my newest
• 38:33
  AI partner. So I answered the questionnaire
• 38:37
  of about 100 questions. And out of that Christian Blaker
• 38:43
  who invented this, he came up with a document that basically
• 38:47
  explains who I am. And then this document is
• 38:51
  embedded in Claude. And because he's super like he's
• 38:58
  very ethical as well. So he really moved from
• 39:01
  automations to an AI partner to kind of Co create.
• 39:09
  And, and I've been, I've been trialing this out over the past
• 39:15
  few days and I am so surprised. Like I was a hardcore user of
• 39:20
  chat chi PT and I have not touched my chat chi PT over the
• 39:24
  past few days. But I'm also finding out like
• 39:27
  apparently for some things, one thing is better for other
• 39:30
  things, potentially another thing.
• 39:31
  And also because these platforms are developing at such rapid
• 39:35
  speed and some are better at different things, I do, I do
• 39:41
  recommend experimenting and I do think it's worth the investment
• 39:47
  because it is the future, right? So I I continuously try out new
• 39:52
  things that may be useful. Are these things also, let's say
• 39:58
  themes or themes that's called them that that you suggest to
• 40:03
  guests or to to to people who go on work vacations?
• 40:08
  Like hey, maybe you should discuss this or maybe look have
• 40:11
  a develop a view on on how you're going to embed AI in your
• 40:17
  organization. So it really depends.
• 40:21
  I think it really as an organization and obviously as
• 40:25
  teams, you really need to think about what you're trying to
• 40:29
  achieve. And then how can AI help to
• 40:35
  achieve that? Either driving experiments,
• 40:37
  getting an expert involved, have have a yeah, have a coach
• 40:44
  potentially for change management.
• 40:45
  I mean, people are generally quite resistant to change.
• 40:51
  This is also why this provides a lot of opportunity for the
• 40:54
  younger generation, even though there are already, yeah, there
• 41:00
  are already less entry jobs and, and, and, and that there's more
• 41:05
  entry jobs being cut. But at the same time, these
• 41:08
  people are basically they already own these tools.
• 41:13
  So the second you give it to them with a certain type task or
• 41:18
  goal, like even look at social media at the time as well.
• 41:21
  And still now they are able to run with it.
• 41:24
  Whereas potentially the older generation has a little bit,
• 41:29
  needs a little bit longer time to get used to new ways of
• 41:33
  working, pretty much unlearn the old way of working while
• 41:38
  obviously also doing the job that they're doing.
• 41:40
  But I do also say, I think every generation, once people realise
• 41:45
  what it provides for them, like even with tools like NHN to be
• 41:51
  able to like automate and, and even create with it.
• 41:59
  I mean, people today are building complete armies with
• 42:05
  agents basically. They all have their own
• 42:09
  knowledge, but there's also tools.
• 42:14
  I heard about this one the other day.
• 42:16
  I haven't tried it out yet. It's called Little Bird.
• 42:20
  I love the name and it's like it's like Ava like a virtual
• 42:28
  assistant on the role, which is kind of follows you around in
• 42:32
  secret on your screen. Potentially my most favorite
• 42:36
  brand out of the whole year meeting.
• 42:41
  Basically whenever you see seating in your e-mail then the
• 42:48
  agent goes to work AI and then it it checks the agenda of if
• 42:55
  both the people have meeting then they sort it out together.
• 43:01
  You don't have to do anything anymore and the meeting just
• 43:03
  pops into your agenda. Oh, it's a bit a bit like a
• 43:07
  meeting picker like like we used to have this, this meeting
• 43:12
  picker thing that you would send out on WhatsApp, like to, to
• 43:16
  plan a date or to plan a get together with your friends, that
• 43:20
  type of technology. But then it would be agentic, so
• 43:25
  it would plug into your agenda and then choose to write time
• 43:31
  and space. To your calendar pops into your
• 43:33
  calendar you just go like you CC apparently I heard I was the
• 43:38
  first one to also add an external e-mail address that was
• 43:41
  not involved because I have 2 e-mail addresses and then that
• 43:45
  worked as well just got popped into my agenda.
• 43:48
  I was like, this is fascinating, this is amazing.
• 43:51
  Or obviously whisper so you can talk to to your tools.
• 44:01
  What else do we have? There are so many.
• 44:05
  Can I ask you a question? Because there there's a lot of
• 44:09
  work being let's say replaced by AI now.
• 44:16
  Especially lower entry level jobs are replaced by AI mostly.
• 44:24
  How do you see that in relation to your future business case
• 44:27
  then? Is there then still a need for a
• 44:31
  workation? Or is the the scope of a
• 44:33
  workation then different that say, is it more about the
• 44:36
  connection and building culture rather than maybe getting work
• 44:43
  done? Actually, not too worried about
• 44:46
  that because if people become founders, they obviously want to
• 44:50
  meet with other founders so we can connect them and help them
• 44:55
  to uplift each other. There will be a lot more growth
• 45:01
  in smaller companies and obviously this can be an amazing
• 45:07
  opportunity for those smaller companies to get to know each
• 45:10
  other like we discussed before. And then the bigger companies, I
• 45:14
  do genuinely believe that will still be bigger companies, but
• 45:18
  they will. And they already are starting to
• 45:21
  cut to become more efficient because if you're competitive,
• 45:25
  that's all you kind of need to do.
• 45:27
  You want to be ahead of your competitor ideally, right?
• 45:29
  Not running after the facts. So yeah, that does make me a bit
• 45:34
  sad. Like actually, not too long ago,
• 45:37
  I got a message from one of my colleagues that this person
• 45:42
  actually lost their job during the last redundancy.
• 45:46
  And I know this person is super, super, super, super talented, so
• 45:51
  I'm not worried about him. Again, this is obviously just
• 45:57
  becoming a morph and common phenomenon, so to say, but I
• 46:01
  would highly encourage those people to take advantage of this
• 46:07
  new technology. And maybe that is a great time
• 46:09
  to find out what exciting startups are there and that are
• 46:14
  AI native. So then you, because this is
• 46:17
  like a super big advantage that smaller companies have today,
• 46:20
  right? Because older companies, they
• 46:22
  are hanging in their old systems and the ways of working.
• 46:26
  Whereas as a start up, you have the opportunity to completely
• 46:30
  reimagine what it's going to look like.
• 46:34
  You may set up like a, a centre brain, like a digital brain of
• 46:39
  your organization. And then save the information in
• 46:43
  there. And then you're going to connect
• 46:44
  all the different types of tooling that you have together
• 46:48
  with your vision and your brand and where you want to go.
• 46:53
  And and you can kind of create like this whole system that kind
• 46:58
  of loops together and is focused to then drive more value to your
• 47:02
  clients or do the things right, make the make the customer
• 47:07
  journey better aligned, but also, for example, onboarding,
• 47:14
  offboarding and that type of things.
• 47:16
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 47:18
  So I want to switch gears a bit, go back actually to remark you
• 47:24
  had earlier on on diversity and inclusion, that it also that
• 47:29
  this vocation can also contribute to a feeling of
• 47:33
  belonging, especially that you feel that you belong to a
• 47:36
  certain team. So what I've learned is that
• 47:42
  many women in especially in remote and hybrid environments,
• 47:46
  feel a bit invisible. So how can, let's say goods,
• 47:54
  offsides, retreats help them become more visible, feel more
• 48:00
  belonging and also as a result of that have to trust in
• 48:04
  themselves to step into bigger roles?
• 48:06
  Yeah, it really depends how you design those moments.
• 48:10
  If that is one of your goals, you probably want to focus on
• 48:14
  where people can actually have shared experiences and realize
• 48:18
  they are not different and they don't feel comfortable because
• 48:22
  they have bonded and gone through an experience.
• 48:25
  But also you can potentially do like a coaching session where
• 48:31
  people actually share their vulnerabilities or like
• 48:34
  challenges that they have and like really reopen up because
• 48:39
  that's when we connect to each other as human.
• 48:44
  Also, I'm quite a, let's say I'm an outspoken woman.
• 48:49
  So regardless of online, offline, actually, I think I was
• 48:57
  more present in like the official office setting than
• 49:03
  remote because I'm a very extroverted person.
• 49:11
  But I do always recommend women to, to, to, to stand up for
• 49:16
  themselves, like reach out to that person that's further
• 49:20
  ahead. Even I, I, I come from a sales
• 49:24
  Rep background, right? This is where I, I, I learned a
• 49:28
  lot by asking questions like where is that person coming
• 49:33
  from? And that is also, that's a two
• 49:37
  way Rd. as well, right? It's there's one thing that you
• 49:40
  can like obviously show what you're doing and actively get
• 49:44
  out there or potentially these women could, they could set
• 49:50
  certain goals for themselves, right?
• 49:51
  Like, OK, this is where I want to go.
• 49:56
  Who do I then would like to connect with even to break down
• 50:02
  the silos, right? I mean, there are organizations
• 50:04
  that are organizing this, but you can also take initiative
• 50:07
  yourself, schedule a meeting with a colleague that you maybe
• 50:11
  have not spoken before, or potentially there's some sort of
• 50:15
  initiative from within the company that when talent is in
• 50:20
  the same area that they can actually meet up together.
• 50:26
  So yeah, I think there's like there should be initiative and
• 50:30
  intentional design from the organization.
• 50:33
  And then as a person, regardless of female or male, they can take
• 50:40
  initiative. But also it's important like
• 50:42
  that it is actually embedded within your culture.
• 50:45
  This is something I really, really loved about LinkedIn.
• 50:48
  Like it was very much centred around inclusion and belonging.
• 50:54
  So yeah, that's also how everything is designed around
• 50:58
  it. And yeah, I've, I've made
• 51:00
  lifelong friends there for sure. Yeah.
• 51:04
  Did it help you to work in that environment to develop as a
• 51:08
  person? 100% because I, I define a
• 51:12
  traditional career path, right? So I've been a person pretty
• 51:16
  much like, it's like a hotel manager on the water.
• 51:23
  I've I've been a travel consultant where I've even been
• 51:28
  offered to become a manager, but I had a different plan.
• 51:31
  And then to communists around me with people that also like kind
• 51:35
  of like felt this like a broad mindset, but also kind of like
• 51:39
  in this inner curiosity to like find out more things or like
• 51:44
  consistently improve. That's, that's definitely
• 51:48
  something that's amazing. Like I have so many friends, ex
• 51:53
  colleagues now who are all working at all these incredible
• 51:56
  different companies as well that are achieving all these
• 52:00
  incredible amazing things so we can do what we do today.
• 52:05
  Like, for example, just earlier I was popping over a message to
• 52:09
  my friend Yota, who actually works for Gong, which is a sales
• 52:15
  tool that promote teams can use, which also has AI in it so you
• 52:21
  can improve and learn. Yeah.
• 52:23
  So it's been a life changer. And also for me personally,
• 52:26
  obviously it was a different way of working.
• 52:29
  There were different types of learning.
• 52:32
  It was literally like doing an MBA on the payroll.
• 52:35
  OK. So how did you just picking your
• 52:40
  brain here, how do you, how do you transition because you come
• 52:45
  from quite a different work environment being a sort of
• 52:51
  hotel manager on a, on a on on the sea do a really well, let's
• 52:58
  say at least quite structured corporate organization.
• 53:03
  What's that challenging for you? Different, I think, to be
• 53:06
  honest. In all honesty, that job on
• 53:09
  board is the craziest job I've ever had.
• 53:13
  I would start at 7:00 in the morning.
• 53:15
  I would finish at 10:00 at night, five days in a row, 3
• 53:20
  days off and you're responsible for so many different things for
• 53:25
  the hotel rooms, the kitchen, the restaurant, breakfast,
• 53:30
  lunch, dinner. People go diving in between the
• 53:33
  bar. Then there's laundry, cleaning
• 53:36
  ports into the office. So those are a lot of things
• 53:40
  that you're managing. Then something that I really
• 53:44
  learned, like even like Next Level during my role at Lincoln
• 53:48
  is like really understanding the company of the client like and
• 53:53
  the goals where they want to go, but also like managing the
• 53:59
  stakeholders internally. So it came from a sales
• 54:02
  background and then tech sales was the next level.
• 54:06
  So it was different in a way that it's something that's like
• 54:12
  has a lot more impact, is more expensive, it probably has more
• 54:16
  stakeholders involved than maybe 2 friends going out on the reef
• 54:21
  for a trip, come back and that's it like lifelong gratitude.
• 54:25
  But obviously this whole may be helping them to find the right
• 54:30
  talent and so on. So it was really like a mindset
• 54:32
  shift in that way. I was like, OK, what are the
• 54:35
  challenges? What is the type of ROI that is
• 54:39
  going to benefit them? What are they looking for?
• 54:41
  And I'm really lead with value and basically become like a
• 54:45
  trusted advisor to your clients. OK, so one thing when we spoke
• 54:51
  before you told me one thing you do in every conversation which I
• 54:56
  found like really powerful, which is to ask how can I help?
• 55:03
  How does? That how does that help you?
• 55:07
  A developer bond of trust. But also, yeah, let's start with
• 55:12
  the trust part. How did?
• 55:15
  How does it help there? Yeah.
• 55:18
  So I do think you want to try and do it in some like organic
• 55:25
  way, right, like in a flow like not feeling enforced.
• 55:29
  But very often there are different ways how we can help
• 55:33
  other people, which are often underestimated another person.
• 55:39
  Maybe it can even be a course recommendation, an intro to
• 55:46
  someone else. But anything you can think of.
• 55:50
  I've received so much help from people like obviously lifting my
• 55:55
  company that I'm so grateful. I, I, I, I, I wouldn't know how
• 56:02
  I would have done it without them.
• 56:04
  So to say, probably find a way. But still, it's it's easier to
• 56:08
  get help from someone who has been there.
• 56:10
  And yeah, it's even led me to get invited after some smart
• 56:18
  questions as well, because I did my research after a podcast.
• 56:22
  And then by asking that question and asking information about
• 56:29
  these events, I actually ended up getting invited to a
• 56:35
  breakfast with business leaders. And then in another country for
• 56:40
  another event, I got invited for their business leader cocktails
• 56:43
  where there's also investors walking around and, and, and
• 56:47
  other interesting people who you can connect with and really,
• 56:51
  really bond. And I really, I really, really
• 56:55
  love that. I think it's also like a way of
• 56:58
  maybe even by saying so you're opening yourself up to different
• 57:02
  things as well. Because sometimes if you ask
• 57:05
  that to some person, you never know what they're going to
• 57:06
  answer, right? You never know.
• 57:08
  Now that that is true, but how? How do you do that organically,
• 57:13
  especially at the start of a relationship when you don't know
• 57:16
  someone that well? Kind of like coming from a a
• 57:19
  good heart positive place, like a place of generous curiosity.
• 57:26
  And then if you maybe later on get to know that person and you
• 57:30
  kind of know what they're looking for, Like, for example,
• 57:34
  yesterday I had someone who had left a certain company that I
• 57:41
  want to partner with. And then this other person told
• 57:45
  me like, OK, stick with this person.
• 57:48
  And I was like, oh, I ran out of connections.
• 57:52
  Could you maybe give me a wiping intro?
• 57:54
  And I think I'm not sure, whichever reason.
• 57:56
  And obviously I'll find my way and maybe that person already
• 58:00
  popped a message on the back door.
• 58:02
  But so instantly I got the right person with the right name in
• 58:06
  that organization. I could refer to this person
• 58:08
  that I've already been in touch and base with several times and
• 58:11
  we're vibing and then instantly got picked up when I sent the
• 58:16
  message out. Like I got the right link
• 58:19
  immediately that was said like OK, I'll pop it forward to the
• 58:22
  right person that is in charge of this.
• 58:25
  And like I could have gone through the front door and
• 58:27
  trying to figure it out by myself, but then I didn't, for
• 58:32
  example, in this case, I didn't react.
• 58:34
  Seem like how can I help you? I just know, OK, this person is
• 58:39
  very AI savvy. I'll just pop over some new
• 58:44
  tools that I've learned about, which I think are epic.
• 58:47
  And then that person is happy as well, right?
• 58:50
  It's kind of like, it's kind of like give and take and, and,
• 58:53
  and, and obviously as the relationship goes further, you
• 58:56
  get to know each other better. And yeah, I don't know, they
• 58:58
  kind of become partners in crime.
• 59:00
  Like why? No, but, but, but that's that.
• 59:04
  That's what I meant to say. Yeah.
• 59:05
  If if you know a person a bit better, you know the preferences
• 59:09
  a bit, you know how that person is connecting.
• 59:12
  So it's sort of easier to even just throw in the the help to
• 59:20
  yourself. But I'm wondering more about the
• 59:24
  the initial conversation just to take preparation and really
• 59:28
  looking like preparing to give to be able to give that answer
• 59:35
  to the question How can I help yourself?
• 59:40
  I think if you will struggle with that, I would really try to
• 59:45
  like train it so it becomes more natural.
• 59:48
  And I realized that is it's not that scary like the, the road
• 59:54
  has not built, built by one person.
• 59:56
  There's like if you build a building house, how many people
• 1:00:01
  are there involved? And not even just the people
• 1:00:03
  building it. Think about all the materials
• 1:00:06
  that you need to build that house or the person who designed
• 1:00:09
  it. Well, they have been speaking
• 1:00:11
  with each other and they've been helping each other and.
• 1:00:14
  Collaborating. So maybe it's like maybe that
• 1:00:17
  helps like a like a mindset shift that everybody is
• 1:00:22
  receiving help and other people are, for example, maybe also
• 1:00:28
  helping you. So potentially there's also a
• 1:00:30
  way of being able to give back even when someone, let's say
• 1:00:35
  somebody finds it scary because somebody has a higher position
• 1:00:41
  than them. Maybe they're the type of
• 1:00:44
  founder that they want to be, but they're still in corporate.
• 1:00:47
  Or maybe the person is like even C level, let's say C level at a
• 1:00:55
  company. You readmire you kind of like by
• 1:00:58
  asking that question or even you can even start an intro with it,
• 1:01:02
  like coming to noon and ask questions and say what you
• 1:01:06
  appreciate there. There may always be something
• 1:01:10
  like maybe understanding or maybe this founder wants to hire
• 1:01:15
  certain type of people or have a little bit more understanding of
• 1:01:18
  your market or maybe they want to try and diversify and speak
• 1:01:22
  with people that are within your pool or yeah, there's so many
• 1:01:28
  different ways, potentially even that CEO.
• 1:01:31
  He's our leader at this company that you truly admire.
• 1:01:37
  Maybe you can also help this person.
• 1:01:41
  Maybe even a new AI tool or something that makes their work
• 1:01:47
  easier technically. Like almost like sales but
• 1:01:50
  coming from a good card because maybe you're not even selling.
• 1:01:52
  Do you know what I mean? There's so many different ways.
• 1:01:55
  And once you start doing that, you have that mindset shift.
• 1:01:59
  It becomes a normal natural thing and you realize the value.
• 1:02:03
  Yeah, for yeah, that that for sure that that I can absolutely
• 1:02:08
  agree with. So I need some help.
• 1:02:13
  So I'm just going to ask for it. So my goal is to close the
• 1:02:16
  funding gap between male founders and female founders in
• 1:02:20
  tech. What is 1 action you would
• 1:02:25
  recommend I take to get there? One recommendation?
• 1:02:28
  Well, first of all, keep going. Scream louder.
• 1:02:32
  I'm in shock. That is still at 2% because it
• 1:02:36
  hasn't changed even though I've seen incredible initiatives.
• 1:02:42
  I would definitely encourage sharing also information about
• 1:02:50
  that. Female founders are actually
• 1:02:52
  super successful. That's why it surprises so much.
• 1:02:57
  The data does not lie. Maybe I can help you to connect
• 1:03:03
  you to another person that you could maybe get on a podcast if
• 1:03:06
  there's like a certain type of person that you'd love.
• 1:03:09
  To speak with those, those recommendations are always
• 1:03:13
  really welcome. OK, perfect.
• 1:03:16
  Let's do that. So let's let's do that.
• 1:03:19
  So Gina Skinkle, thank you very much for an amazing
• 1:03:23
  conversation. We covered a lot of ground from
• 1:03:26
  from leadership to offsites to building a culture to belonging.
• 1:03:32
  And I want to thank you for that.
• 1:03:35
  Also for the practical tips you you shared.
• 1:03:39
  If people want to learn more about drift wave or leader wave
• 1:03:44
  or connect with you, where would you like to send them?
• 1:03:46
  Stalk me on LinkedIn. Love to connect.
• 1:03:50
  OK, Yeah, we also have the company page there as well.
• 1:03:55
  We have our websites, we have profiles on Instagram.
• 1:04:01
  So definitely encourage to check it out and I will share the
• 1:04:05
  links with you so you can add it to the recording.
• 1:04:10
  Yeah, through the show notes, which we will do, of course.
• 1:04:14
  Gina, thank you very much for an amazing conversation.
• 1:04:17
  Listeners, thank you very much for listening.
• 1:04:20
  And until the next episode, keep being awesome.
• 1:04:28
  Well, that's it for episode 129 of Women Disrupting Deck, titled
• 1:04:34
  The Power of Vacations and Generous Leadership with Gina
• 1:04:37
  Shrinkle. Gina and I thank you for
• 1:04:40
  listening, and we hope that you found our conversation as
• 1:04:43
  inspiring and unconventional as we intended it to be.
• 1:04:47
  And if you have any questions for Gina, please share them in
• 1:04:51
  the comments on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube.
• 1:04:56
  When you want to connect with Gina and learn more about her
• 1:04:58
  company's drift wave and leader wave, please check out the links
• 1:05:02
  in the show notes. As usual, you can find the show
• 1:05:05
  notes at Women Disrupting Tactile Block, and you'll find
• 1:05:08
  the link in the captions There. You can also find more
• 1:05:11
  information about the Embrace Health event that I mentioned in
• 1:05:15
  the intro. During the episode, Gina also
• 1:05:18
  mentions that she's experimenting with an AI
• 1:05:22
  personal assistant. If you'd like to learn more
• 1:05:25
  about that, you can connect with Gina or with me.
• 1:05:28
  If you've enjoyed listening to this episode, please consider
• 1:05:31
  giving us a rating or a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.
• 1:05:36
  Leaving a rating or a review helps new listeners find
• 1:05:40
  podcasts and supports my guests by giving them a bigger
• 1:05:44
  platform. If you're not already following
• 1:05:47
  us, please make sure to follow Women Disrupting Tech on
• 1:05:50
  Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon, or YouTube.
• 1:05:54
  By following you support Gina and my older guests in closing
• 1:05:58
  the funding gap by the end of 2032.
• 1:06:01
  If you'd like to learn more about Women Disrupting Tech,
• 1:06:04
  please follow the podcast on social media.
• 1:06:06
  You can find us everywhere as at Women Disrupting Tech and you
• 1:06:11
  can also find us on Sub Stack on Subtech.
• 1:06:15
  You'll find in depth stories and behind the scenes inside from
• 1:06:18
  each episode, plus trends that I've spotted across 129
• 1:06:23
  conversations. So don't forget to subscribe to
• 1:06:27
  women disrupting tech on Subtech.
• 1:06:30
  Finally, if you want to connect with me directly, please reach
• 1:06:33
  out via e-mail Derek Young at women disrupting tech dot blog
• 1:06:37
  or connect with me on LinkedIn. On LinkedIn, just search for my
• 1:06:42
  name and you'll find me. With that, I wish you a
• 1:06:45
  wonderful day. I hope to see you in the next
• 1:06:48
  episode, and until then, as always, keep being awesome.