Latest / Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute / 28: Why Attend a Men's Intensive?

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28: Why Attend a Men's Intensive? · Beyond the Facade with Choose Recovery Services and Blueprint Institute

• 0:00
  Everybody welcome to the podcast.
• 0:03
  And I feel like I always say this, but I'm excited, but maybe
• 0:06
  for a lot different reason. Today, we have two guests on our
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  podcast and these guests experienced our men's intensive
• 0:16
  that we held here in Spanish Fork, UT.
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  And the questions we often get is, hey, what's that all about?
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  Why would I do that? I see value in it, but I'm still
• 0:25
  not sure what I would experience.
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  So everybody experiences something different and I wanted
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  a couple people to be able to share with you what that's all
• 0:36
  about and what happened with them inside of that.
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  As we jump into this podcast and talk about this, I want to let
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  those people listening know that this intensive was an experience
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  that these two gentlemen had. And the podcast wasn't created
• 0:51
  as like an ad to get people to intend the intensive.
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  It's a podcast created to talk about one of the tools out there
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  for healing. Welcome to Beyond the Facade
• 1:07
  podcast. I'm your host, Luke Gordon, and
• 1:10
  I'm thrilled to have you join me in this space today.
• 1:12
  What we're going to be doing is diving deep into the trials and
• 1:15
  triumphs and truths of seeking authenticity.
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  Becoming your true self isn't about a single action or a
• 1:20
  moment. It's a relentless pursuit, a
• 1:23
  commitment to self that reveals the rich connection and meaning
• 1:26
  that our life has to offer. So whether this is your first
• 1:29
  time tuning in or you're a regular listener, know this.
• 1:32
  What you're building here goes beyond a conversation.
• 1:35
  You're here to challenge, to change, and to celebrate the
• 1:38
  incredible journey of becoming your authentic self.
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  Because when you dare to show up fully, the rewards are
• 1:43
  immeasurable. So, welcome to be on the Facade.
• 1:46
  Let's get started. These two guys I respect a lot,
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  and not because they came from an intensive experience, but I
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  watch a lot of men go through the journey and I watch them
• 1:58
  tackle it. And it's sometimes proactive in
• 2:01
  approach and sometimes it's reactive in approach.
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  Sometimes it's because somebody's telling them they
• 2:06
  have to do it or to maintain a relationship.
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  And sometimes it's doing it because they're like, I can't do
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  this anymore as far as the unhealthy mechanisms of life.
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  And I see it, these guys here are tackling their recovery
• 2:19
  proactively. So more than just the, hey,
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  what's an intensive all about and why did you do it?
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  And what's it like more of just you hearing about a couple guys
• 2:28
  that are proactive about their recovery and and doing good
• 2:31
  stuff. I appreciate you both being here
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  because I don't know, it's podcast, so people are going to
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  be listening and it's your story and your journey.
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  So thank you very much for being here.
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  First question I have for you is what were you experiencing in
• 2:47
  your journey when you decided to join?
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  So what was going on in your life?
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  What made you decide to do it? Whichever one of you want to go
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  first. Go ahead, Curtis.
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  Yeah, for me, I've been in recovery for almost 2 years now
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  and I liked the idea of the concept of of unmasked.
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  I've done a lot of individual work, a lot of group work.
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  And I've realized that I split myself off into all these
• 3:11
  different masks in the way that that I present myself to people
• 3:13
  to the point where I wasn't even necessarily sure who I am.
• 3:16
  Like what is the authentic me? And I've done some of that work,
• 3:20
  like I said, over the last two years.
• 3:21
  But I looked at the idea of an intensive as an opportunity to
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  spend a few days digging a lot deeper than I could in an
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  individual session to get to the bottom of some of the things
• 3:31
  that I've been working on. And trying to figure out what
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  authentic means to me, what it means to be vulnerable, what it
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  means to connect to myself and to others in a real and honest
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  way. And that's what led me to the
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  point of the intensive. What was that like for you
• 3:45
  making that type of decision? Was it like I'm going to do it,
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  or was it a battle? It wasn't a battle I wanted to
• 3:53
  go so badly. I felt like it was this
• 3:56
  incredibly important thing for me to do.
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  I had some concerns if I can make it work time wise for work,
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  financially, lots of other reasons.
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  Then I also had it built up in my head as like, you know, I
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  needed this to be a thing that like cures me or solves all my
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  problems. And I, I struggle with that for
• 4:11
  for weeks leading up to the intensive and, and I knew and I
• 4:14
  recognized that if I went in there with those types of
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  expectations, I wouldn't be able to be as present and as honest
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  and vulnerable. And I think because I wanted to
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  be. So I did a lot of work
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  beforehand trying to let go of that and just show up and let
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  whatever happens, happens in the intensive.
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  And that's sort of the process I went through as far as making
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  the decision to go. OK, that's awesome.
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  What about you, Brandon? I at the point I went to the
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  intensive, I'm just now coming up on a year since my D-Day, so
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  I'm about halfway as foreign to this as Curtis's.
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  But I knew there was a lot of work to be done on family of
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  origin stuff and just getting real with myself, being willing
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  and able to be vulnerable with other people.
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  And I just, I, I've been through a lot of different therapy and
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  there's different stuff that you're trying when you're trying
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  to find a way to heal. And I knew there, there was
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  always just something quite frankly about you, Luke, that I
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  just, I always, I trust you. And I felt like if you were
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  putting it on it, it would be worth my time to be there.
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  Then I was right about that. OK, cool.
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  Did you what are you what were you hoping was going on in your
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  life that could I'm not trying to load this brand into where
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  there needed to have been something, but do you feel like
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  there was something that you went into it going?
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  I hope that I can get this out of it or was just more I didn't.
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  I feel like this is just something I need to do.
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  It was a combination of both. As soon as you mentioned it, I
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  was like, yeah, I think I need to do that.
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  And I started looking into it, the logistics and all that, of
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  actually getting the whole way across the country to be able to
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  do it. But everything lined up.
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  But I also, I just. Yeah.
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  I just felt like I needed to be there, man.
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  It's hard to explain. Yeah.
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  I knew there was more digging, more peeling to be done.
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  And, you know, I've spent the 1st 43 years of my life just an
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  absolute imposter. And some of the language that's
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  in the materials that you sent out on it speaks directly to
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  that. Yeah, yeah.
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  And I, I'd love for you guys to comment on this, but you have
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  this experience where you go and your life gets disrupted through
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  discovery or a disclosure and that your life blows up and then
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  you decide, OK, I need change. And then you have this really
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  annoying process of, I don't know, doing groups or coaching
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  therapy one hour at a time throughout a week.
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  And it's like, can I do some heavy lifting?
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  And what can we get accomplished?
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  And there is a lot of heavy lifting done in a very short
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  period of time. I don't know, can you guys
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  comment on that? Any thoughts on that 'cause
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  that's just my perception. Yeah, it, it seemed like a
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  really efficient way to do work, just having all day for 2 1/2
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  days. I'm I'm all about efficiency
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  and, and that, that the the, the I definitely advanced more in
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  that period of time than I would have had I not been there for
• 7:09
  sure. Yeah.
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  Yeah. And it's, it's interesting
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  because I, there's, there's lots of things that I have had heard
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  before an individual, those 50 minute hour long sessions via
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  Zoom that I heard again in the intensive in person with other
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  other men in the room that just, it just resonated in a different
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  way that I think you can't really or I couldn't really get
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  from a virtual room some things that I was like, I got it like
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  in my head. But there's some things that I
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  started to really understand about myself and about some of
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  the concepts that we talked about in grouping in sessions
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  that. But I think being there in the
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  space with people and hearing their stories and looking them
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  in the eyes across the table and things like that.
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  It's just you can't really replicate some of that stuff
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  virtually. Like we tried to as much as we
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  can, but it's just it's different with people in the
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  room with you. So different.
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  What did you go experience That's such a vague unfair
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  question. And I'm not saying agenda like
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  on Wednesday morning at there at 9:00 and then I was I sat in my
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  seat. But what paint a picture of what
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  did you experience? What happened in any way to do
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  it? It's great.
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  It it revealed a lot to me about what's going on under the
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  surface, behind the scenes. How do you end up so far into
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  this thing? How do you get so far gone?
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  And we talked about maladaptive coping mechanisms and childhood
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  traumas and all the things that tend to lead to this.
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  But it was just really powerful to be in the room and in the
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  fight together and just bearing one another's burdens.
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  And it was just a really great experience that the seven of us
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  had that were there. OK, I want to come to Curtis.
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  It's just like a hard question. What?
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  I. Experience how do I really even
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  quantify some of this stuff in words?
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  But I try not to oversell, but I but or undersell.
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  I just want to be like honest with how I feel about it.
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  Like in, in some ways I feel like it was a I'm starting to
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  get emotional a a life changing experience for me.
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  You know, I, I, I, I'm kind of an emotional person as it is.
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  I didn't really necessarily recognize that before a
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  recovery, but I mentioned earlier about some of the
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  concepts and things that I'd like knew in my head.
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  We talked a lot about parts work and things like that and, and
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  in, in, in the sessions and just really, I gained a better
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  understanding of who I am, how all the different parts of me
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  connect and a level of acknowledgement and appreciation
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  for some of the parts that I have come accustomed to not
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  liking or, or hating. To be honest, I feel like those
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  2 1/2 days made more progress than the previous two years.
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  But I, I know that the two years before I built the foundation on
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  what happened at the intensive, but I came away from my feeling
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  more connected to myself that I've ever been more with more of
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  an understanding of where I've been, where I am now, where I
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  want to go in the future. And I have more of a sense of
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  just of sense of self. I feel more, more confident.
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  There's still hard days in life, still happens and it's not
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  perfect, but it just, I don't know.
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  I don't know how to describe it. It was just a unique experience
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  for me. Yeah.
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  And I appreciate you acknowledging like how do I
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  respond? Like how do I frame up and paint
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  a picture for you on that type of an experience.
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  Something that I want to highlight there that I thought
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  was really beautiful was there were parts of me.
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  And I recognize this. Any listener might not make
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  sense of even saying there were parts of me, but there were
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  aspects of me, things that I did that I hated.
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  I didn't like that and learn about IFS parts where we learned
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  to understand that part and get to know that part and it is
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  transformational. And for those of you who don't
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  know if these men, and I'm not going to share parts of you
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  guys's stories, that's not mine to share, but they had to do so
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  much work to get to this point for it to be transformational.
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  But it's not like Center for an incentive and can do that work.
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  They were ready for that work. And it's very, I don't know,
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  powerful. What about you, Brandon?
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  I think we spent a lot of time trying to help people that don't
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  want to be helped. And I think for me with my whole
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  journey, I had to get the rock freaking bottom and then
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  realize, OK, you're going to lose your marriage, you're going
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  to lose your kids, you're going to lose your house, you're going
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  to lose your entire life. And I was an absolute monster
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  for a lot of. Years.
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  I acted out virtually and in person more times than I care to
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  talk about, but I came away from the intensive with a much
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  kinder, forgiving view of myself.
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  And I feel like that is, I feel like I hadn't yet forgiven
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  myself for the way that I live my life for so many years.
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  And and that was huge because if you're beating yourself up all
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  the time, it's really hard to do the rest of the work as far as
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  healing goes. And I don't the intensive is not
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  going to be the be all end all. It's not going to be like 2 1/2
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  days later you're fixed and you're good to go.
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  But it's a piece of the puzzle, and it's a big piece of the
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  puzzle. And, and OK, so I want to have
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  that remain truth. So let's highlight that for a
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  second. The fact of, OK, when I went in
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  this intensive, I have developed or put some energy into more of
• 12:49
  a compassionate mindset around myself because the kicking the
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  crap out of my cell didn't really give me the result that I
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  was looking for. So we did something a little
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  different and it was helpful. So I want to speak to, I don't
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  know how many betrayed partners we have that listen to this, but
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  Brandon, please talk about this part, which is the I have a
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  compassionate mindset for maybe a part of me that I hated and I
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  would pray partner if they would hear this.
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  What about do you feel like now you have less accountability
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  because you're more compassionate, less less holding
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  myself to be more transparent. Do you let yourself off the hook
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  with the compassion? Could you speak to that if I
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  make any sense? Yeah, I, it's not like I let
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  myself off the hook. You can forgive somebody and
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  there's still accountability. If you murder my child, I can
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  forgive you, but you're still going to prison for the rest of
• 13:43
  your life. So that is, that's how the
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  compassion accountability can work together.
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  And it's just, it's a lot easier when you slip off, when you get
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  off track, if you are able to forgive yourself to get back on
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  track. It's very counterproductive to
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  just be mad at yourself all the time or to hate yourself all the
• 14:02
  time. You have to have the regret you
• 14:05
  have to have there. There's got to be shame there,
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  obviously, because what we did is wrong.
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  But just living under the weight of that is something that I I
• 14:15
  definitely learned a lot about how to give up by going through
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  the intensive. Yeah, yeah.
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  Curtis, any thoughts on that? Yeah, I think, I don't know the
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  idea of like there is a lack of accountability.
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  I I, I personally think that I can't hold myself accountable if
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  all I'm doing is beating myself up.
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  If I am my actions and my behaviors I can't hold myself
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  accountable for because I'm just trapped in shame.
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  And I think part of this intensive, I've done a lot of
• 14:41
  work beforehand, but a lot of that is in separating me from my
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  actions and my behaviors. And when I do that and I can get
• 14:48
  some self compassion for who I am and who I've been and who I
• 14:51
  want to be and things like that, then I can look at the actual
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  behaviors and the actions and start to figure out where I went
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  wrong. What I can do.
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  I can start to build things in place to, to really build a life
• 15:01
  that I want to have apart from those things.
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  But if I'm constantly beating myself, I'm not having a
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  forgiving, compassionate attitude.
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  I I can't get there. Yeah, like that.
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  This is the question I have for y'all.
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  What did you observe about other men that you were around doing
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  this work, and then how did you see yourself differently
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  watching them go through the hard work that they did during
• 15:25
  the incentive? So you're talking about
• 15:26
  specifically other men in the intensive?
• 15:28
  In the intensive, Yep, side by side watching them do their
• 15:31
  work. In the go through in that pain,
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  painful, painstaking yet rewarding work.
• 15:36
  What did you observe? And then how did it make you
• 15:38
  reflect about you? I think it's interesting that
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  when the first day started out, we did our check insurance, how
• 15:44
  we're feeling coming into it, like what what brought us here
• 15:47
  and things like that. And I had, I checked in some
• 15:49
  fears, some anxiety, some nervousness, and I was still, I
• 15:52
  feel being vulnerable and honest, but it was coming from a
• 15:54
  different place. And then as I hear other people
• 15:56
  talk and as one person that gets vulnerable, then another person
• 15:59
  feels comfortable to do it. And then we're also we're all
• 16:01
  sharing. And then I can see things in
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  other people about me that I couldn't necessarily see on my
• 16:07
  own. It's like looking in a mirror in
• 16:08
  some ways with some other experiences that other men have
• 16:11
  had that maybe I'm less able to see on my own, but I hear
• 16:15
  someone else shared. I'm like, Oh my gosh, that's
• 16:17
  exactly what I've experienced. And there's a connection there
• 16:20
  that it that is unique and is, and it breaks down those walls
• 16:23
  to an allowance vulnerability and connection.
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  I think I got a lot of that throughout other people talking
• 16:29
  and sharing and and the different work that we did and
• 16:31
  it allowed me to show up in in a more authentic way as well.
• 16:35
  Yeah. Thank you, Brian.
• 16:38
  Yeah, For me, there's just a lot of value in being in the same
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  space as other men who are going through the same journey you
• 16:44
  are. It's not the exact same.
• 16:46
  It's not identical, but the underlying problems are very
• 16:48
  similar. And just seeing other guys being
• 16:52
  willing to be vulnerable and authentic, it gives everybody in
• 16:56
  the room permission to do the same.
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  And that's where that's where the work is done.
• 16:59
  That's where the progress is made.
• 17:01
  Some guys talk about some stuff that that was very raw and real
• 17:06
  and emotional and I was like, man, that's got to be really
• 17:10
  hard to talk about in a room full of strangers.
• 17:12
  It also allowed me to realize some things about myself while I
• 17:17
  was there. I've spent my entire life trying
• 17:20
  to not come across as emotional and sensitive, and I am very
• 17:28
  emotional and I am very sensitive and I don't care who
• 17:30
  knows because that's the way I was made.
• 17:33
  And it doesn't mean you can't still man up or act like a man
• 17:38
  or whatever, but that's, I feel things to a greater extent than
• 17:41
  most people feel them. And my emotions go further and
• 17:45
  higher and wider than most people's emotions do.
• 17:48
  And I got really good at stuffing all that garbage down
• 17:50
  for a long time. And it just, it boils over into
• 17:53
  the rest of your life and really ruins a lot of things.
• 17:56
  So it's just being there with those guys really just allowed
• 17:59
  me to explore who I really am, how I was really made, and just
• 18:07
  accept it. I like who I am.
• 18:10
  That's so cool. The name of the intensive is
• 18:13
  unmasked. So it's authentic experience.
• 18:16
  It's what is masculinity actually like?
• 18:19
  What is masculine? So can you guys speak to, and it
• 18:23
  doesn't need to be like before intensive after intensive, but
• 18:28
  can you speak to what the world tells us about being a man looks
• 18:31
  like versus what you're experiencing in recovery, what
• 18:33
  being a man actually looks like when it comes to the masculine
• 18:37
  part? I think for me, I don't know if
• 18:40
  it was necessarily that overtly taught as a kid, just just how
• 18:45
  just watching how other people act and media and things like
• 18:48
  that. Men are supposed to be strong,
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  They're supposed to be courageous.
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  They're supposed to not feel pain.
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  Always, always be calm and cool under pressure and things like
• 18:56
  that. Always in my mind, always have
• 18:58
  it together. And most of my life they didn't
• 19:03
  leave any space for for emotions, for feelings, for like
• 19:07
  uncertainty or not knowing the answer.
• 19:09
  Like I always felt I had to be perfect in a lot of ways.
• 19:12
  And I think coming out of the intensive, there's a quote that
• 19:16
  I like from a book. I talked about it in the
• 19:17
  intensive, but it's it talks about the idea.
• 19:19
  Of vulnerability. Since it's Brené Brown, she says
• 19:22
  vulnerability isn't weakness. It's our greatest measure of
• 19:24
  courage. And to me, that's a huge thing
• 19:28
  for me now, like masculine or being a man or what courage
• 19:31
  means, what strength means. Strength and courage for me now
• 19:35
  is like leaning into those emotions, leaning into that
• 19:37
  discomfort and pain and then being vulnerable and sharing it.
• 19:40
  It's no longer for me trying to look strong and tough because
• 19:44
  that's not real. It's not who I am necessarily.
• 19:46
  So I, what's reframing, what does strength, what does courage
• 19:49
  look like? What does those types of things?
• 19:52
  How, what's true for me regarding that?
• 19:54
  And and then I can show up and I a way that's authentic for me,
• 19:58
  regardless of what I've, you know, been brought up to, to
• 20:00
  believe or think. Love that Brandon.
• 20:04
  Yeah, there's a lot of power in realizing and confessing to
• 20:10
  yourself the fact that you are absolutely full of crap and
• 20:13
  everything that you're showing to the world out there when
• 20:16
  you're not living authentically and you're not doing the work to
• 20:21
  recover and heal and all that. It's very anxiety inducing to
• 20:26
  talk about these things, especially in a format where the
• 20:29
  whole world could access this if they wanted to.
• 20:31
  I get a lot of peace and strength from the realization
• 20:36
  that everybody that would judge me or belittle me or make fun of
• 20:38
  me or whatever, they're all full of crap too.
• 20:41
  So I really just don't care anymore.
• 20:43
  I just, I want to live my life and I I want to live it in a way
• 20:48
  where I can be true to who I am and I don't care what anybody
• 20:51
  thinks. Yeah, I, I remember both of you
• 20:55
  guys talking, makes me think about the tremendous risks
• 20:59
  associated with challenging my belief system.
• 21:02
  And my belief system leads me to believe like what I was taught
• 21:05
  about being a man is that I show up differently than the model
• 21:08
  that was given to me. That will mean disconnection, it
• 21:11
  will mean rejection, and it will mean a very emasculating like
• 21:16
  experience of you're not accepted and something's wrong
• 21:19
  with you and tearing down that structure, that belief system
• 21:23
  and showing up differently. And Brandon, I hear you talking
• 21:26
  about like I, I'm, I refuse to give space to and have people
• 21:32
  hold power over me that the believe this.
• 21:35
  That's not it. That's not something I want to
• 21:36
  feed. And, and it's a pretty amazing
• 21:41
  experience diving into showing up without all those things on
• 21:46
  and seeing what happens. And going back to the concept of
• 21:50
  masculinity too, I there's a lot of definitions for masculinity
• 21:55
  these days and the overwhelming majority of them are garbage.
• 21:58
  I lived the masculine lifestyle that society and media would
• 22:04
  have everyone believe is the is the way that a real man lives.
• 22:07
  And you can do that if you want, but I'm here to tell you it's
• 22:11
  absolutely a miserable way to live your life.
• 22:15
  Yeah, yeah. Amen.
• 22:18
  Like, I don't know, I'm not trying to be spiritual right
• 22:21
  now. I'm just trying to find a word
• 22:22
  that says I agree with you. I guess I could just say that,
• 22:24
  yeah, that's what that word means.
• 22:25
  Occur the same. Thoughts on that?
• 22:28
  No, other than I completely agree as well.
• 22:30
  Like I said, part of that intensive was redefining what
• 22:33
  that means for me and everyone individually and letting go of
• 22:36
  what all you've been taught or what society thinks is is the
• 22:39
  appropriate no way to be be a man.
• 22:42
  Yeah. What message you want to share
• 22:44
  with guys around intensive or just in general that you felt
• 22:47
  would be something you want to share?
• 22:50
  I would say if you think or have an inkling that maybe this would
• 22:55
  be a good idea, just do it. What's the worst that's going to
• 22:59
  happen? You're going to lose 2 1/2 days
• 23:01
  of your life and come back in the same situation you were
• 23:03
  before. But what could happen is you
• 23:06
  could get a whole bunch of healing, a whole bunch of tools
• 23:09
  to work with, a whole bunch of new strategies.
• 23:14
  The benefit far outweighs the risk.
• 23:16
  How about that? Yeah, There is nothing different
• 23:20
  unless I actually do something different, right?
• 23:23
  Yeah. OK, Curtis.
• 23:26
  Yeah, I don't know. I think if I had done this a
• 23:29
  year ago, I would not have gotten anywhere near what I got
• 23:32
  out of it today. So are, you know, when I started
• 23:35
  your recovery, I was trying really hard.
• 23:37
  I was, but I was still not letting go fully of the outcome
• 23:42
  and I was checking the boxes a lot on things, making sure I'm
• 23:46
  going to group. I'm doing this and I, I didn't
• 23:48
  know what I didn't know. I just some things I couldn't
• 23:51
  let go of. And I think if I had went in
• 23:53
  that mindset of I'm just checking boxes, I wouldn't have
• 23:56
  gotten anything out of it or what I maybe not anything, but I
• 23:59
  wouldn't have had the experience that I had.
• 24:01
  So I think if anybody is thinking about going to this, if
• 24:04
  you're in a place where you're ready to let go, learn how to
• 24:07
  let go of the. Outcome Learn how to be
• 24:08
  vulnerable. Learn.
• 24:09
  How to connect to yourself in ways that you don't think are
• 24:12
  possible and you're ready to stop just checking boxes.
• 24:16
  The intensive is exactly where to do that, in my opinion.
• 24:18
  And like I said earlier, this was an experience for me that I
• 24:22
  can't really fully describe, but I think I went to it at the
• 24:25
  exact time I was supposed to go to it.
• 24:27
  And I'm just grateful for the opportunity to go to that and to
• 24:30
  be able to share my experience with it today as well.
• 24:33
  Thank you. Thank you.
• 24:34
  Yeah, I'll, I'll just, I'll back up and say if you're thinking
• 24:36
  about doing it for somebody else, don't waste your time.
• 24:39
  If you're not ready to do it for yourself, you're just wasting
• 24:42
  your time and everybody else's time.
• 24:44
  Thank you, guys. Thank you so much for coming
• 24:47
  today. I really respect what you guys
• 24:49
  are doing in your journey and your willingness to show up
• 24:51
  here. I don't know what it's, I don't
• 24:54
  know what kind of feelings you're going to have.
• 24:55
  You have a vulnerability hangover later.
• 24:58
  I don't know what you're going to have.
• 24:59
  Oh, Brandon, what do you think you're going to experience with
• 25:01
  this thing going out there and going out to everybody?
• 25:04
  I don't tend to think things through.
• 25:06
  We'll see what happens, man. I'm not worried about it.
• 25:08
  It's. Yeah, I'm ready.
• 25:12
  Fire aim type of guy so. Well, thank you for your
• 25:15
  willingness. Oh, by the way, I also notice
• 25:17
  you're wearing your Utah shirt and you're not in Utah, right?
• 25:20
  No, but when I was in Utah I did not have a sweatshirt, and it's
• 25:25
  a lot cooler in Utah than it is in North Carolina this time of
• 25:27
  year. Yeah, for sure.
• 25:30
  And you were sporting that today for the podcast.
• 25:33
  No, ironically I'm just on a camping trip with my family and
• 25:37
  and I grabbed the hoodie that was on top of the pile and it
• 25:40
  was this one. That's awesome.
• 25:41
  Serendipity. That's that's just coincidence,
• 25:44
  Curtis. What's it going to be like for
• 25:46
  you this going out there people? I'm good, actually.
• 25:50
  I know before we started recording you asked us how we
• 25:52
  were going and I said I was going some nerves and anxiety
• 25:56
  this morning leading up to it, but I don't know.
• 25:58
  I'm happy with with with what I shared about my experience and
• 26:02
  that's all I can do. So all right, guys, it was good
• 26:05
  to hang out with you. If everybody thanks for
• 26:08
  listening, we'll talk to you next time.
• 26:12
  Hey, thanks for joining us today.
• 26:13
  If this is something that you connected with, I'd love to meet
• 26:16
  with you more and talk about it. So what you can do is go to
• 26:19
  chooserecoveryservices.com or check the show notes and there
• 26:23
  what we can do is set up a quick conversation.
• 26:25
  We need. Thanks so much for listening to
• 26:27
  Beyond the Facade where we unmask the authentic self.