Latest / Claymore: Become Who You Are / #396 From Pro-Choice to Pro-Life: Deacon Mike Alber Recounts How God Set In Motion A Transformation Of His Heart

Transcript

#396 From Pro-Choice to Pro-Life: Deacon Mike Alber Recounts How God Set In Motion A Transformation Of His Heart · Claymore: Become Who You Are

• 0:09
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Become who you Are podcast, the production of the John Paul Tour Renewal Center.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: I'm Jack Rigorger, host, and I am excited you're with me.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Also pleased to say that my good friend, deacon Mike Albor will be back and we're going to be talking about the baby in the womb.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: I love Deacon Mike because Deacon Mike just gets raw, he gets right to his heart.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: He's going to be talking about his own journey from a pro-choice to a pro-life position, when he actually saw the baby in the womb.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: You know, and for me what really cemented it in is, of course, john Paul II's theology, the body, where Jesus points his back right to Genesis and he says this is what it's all about.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: And God created man in his image, in the divine image.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: He created the male and female.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: He created them, god blessed them, saying to them be fertile, multiply, fill the earth and subdue it.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: It's here that we understand this is a sacramental sign where a man and a woman actually joined physically in sexual union open to life.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: We can have a baby explode out of that union and there are three persons in one and this is tiny sacramental reflection of three persons, of one and the Trinity.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: So buckle up and get ready for today's episode.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: Michael, it's good to be with you.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: I'm back with Deacon Mike, albert.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: Deacon, mike, are you up by your lake home?
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: I know you got a nice spot up there.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: I did a parish mission with you there and got to stay with you.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: So how are you Good?
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm enjoying the summer.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, enjoying the summer.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: Well, you're working too.
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: So you work.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: You know you can take your office anywhere.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: That's a good thing to do.
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: Our last time together, you and I spoke on the Eucharist, and that's gone over really, really well.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: We have a lot of people listening from really all over the world to that.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: Today, we're going to be talking about a sensitive topic, aren't we?
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: We're going to talk about life and pro-life issues, and this is the battleground today.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: We even have Catholics now that are pro-choice Catholics.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: We have a president of the United States who calls himself a Catholic, along with people like Pelosi, dick Durbin here from Illinois.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Again, these are Catholics that are pro-abortion.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: It's amazing to me how twisted and distorted we've become, and so these are tough issues for people, as we know, but we need to talk about them, and the slaughter and the womb is amazing.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: That's going on, and then we have so many questions about abortion and then what happens in cases of rape and all those types of things, deacon, so it's good to have you on.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: I appreciate you taking your time.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Oh, thanks for having me today, Jack.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: It's been a pleasure.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: I know there was at one time you yourself and this is why I thought it'd be great to have you on with this topic that you yourself had ideas, didn't you, that were different when you first came into the church.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Maybe start there, deacon Mike, and maybe give a little background on your own journey from pro-choice to pro-life.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: Absolutely so.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: When I first came to the Catholic Church and we were in that men's group Jack men walking with Christ we addressed abortion issue and I wasn't real outspoken with it.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: But I was thinking to myself, wow, I totally disagree with everything these people are saying, that I believe that abortion was just fine.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: And as I started to pray more, as I started to go to church more and go to daily mass, start going to daily mass, start sitting in adoration, that's when I finally kind of started to realize that God wanted me to go in a different direction.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: And I remember this one point in particular I was in adoration, I was praying in front of the Blessed Sacrament and I was doing a rosary just to myself and I was really meditating on the decades of the rosary.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: I was just really meditating on that and just kind of going with that.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: And I remember it was probably the point in my life where I was like one of the times in my life I felt super, super close to God, almost like I was like walking with him.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: I was holding his hand as we were walking along and going through this rosary.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: And I remember saying to him there's some things I struggled with in the Catholic Church, and one of them was abortion.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: And I said to him I said I can still be your disciple and still believe that abortion is okay.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: And as soon as I said that, everything went dark.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: It was crazy.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: Wait, everything went dark meaning in your mind.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: Everything went dark in my mind.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: I felt like God just completely left and that was the end of it.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: Like I think I was in the I think it was in the third decade of the rosary when this happened, and it was like I just lost that connection with God.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, it was almost like he was gone and he was like oh no, you can't, you can't be my disciple, mike, you can't do that.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: No, you're going to have to.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: You have to change.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: You have to change your mindset.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: You're going to have to change your heart, and I knew I had a long, a long way to go with this, that I had.
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: I needed more time and I needed to have more information.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: And I'll never forget the feast day of St Thomas.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: Doubting Thomas he's probably one of my favorite disciples, kind of reminds me kind of reminds him of me, or me of him, so to speak, and he's.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: He's on July 3rd actually, and you know, if you've ever been called a doubting Thomas, I know it's, it's not really a very complimentary term, but you know, I do remember when I was a doubting Thomas, when I was first coming back to the Catholic faith and I was kind of doubting these certain precepts of the church, one of them definitely, you know, being abortion, and I firmly believed when I was a younger man, you know, 20 years ago.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: I firmly believe that, you know, if abortions were done early in a woman's gestation cycle, that those babies they were not human, that I believe that they were.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: We were just kind of aborting cells or we were aborting something like a blood clot, but I didn't believe that it was an actual baby, you know, and unfortunately, my thoughts were that our society, our doctors, our scientists, they were just way, way too advanced to murder an actual baby and regrettably, I thought our society was way too advanced, you know, to commit murder.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: And my prayer very early on in my Christian life, jack and you know this as I was coming back to the church was, you know, that God changed my mind and he changes my mind on abortion.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: And this is kind of this is how God had answered my prayers.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: My wife and I, we would take the kids to one of the museums on one of their days off.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: You know we had long weekends, so like if we had like President's Day or Washington's birthday or whatever those weekends happen to be.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: On those days we would take the kids to a museum and the kids that that weekend, that day off that they had, they wanted to go to the Science and Industry Museum.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: And it was really strange because I would, I'd been in adoration, I'd been praying to God about, you know, changing my heart, changing my mind on abortion.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: It was really weird.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: But when the kids picked the Science and Industry Museum, they were really little girls and the first thing they said to me was they said we want to see the baby exhibit.
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: We want to see the baby exhibit.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: And I was like what?
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: The baby exhibit?
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: What the heck are they talking about?
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: You know, but the Science and Industry Museum and you know, for the younger people in our crowd today, we did not have the internet, so you couldn't just go look things up, right, you actually had to go to like a library and looking at an encyclopedia.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: You had to go to your museum and actually see things for yourself.
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: Today you can go to the Science and Industry website and you can look up the human life exhibit.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you can pull all this up.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: But at the time the Science and Industry Museum had real life fetuses.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: They were actually baby fetuses at one time and they started at four to six weeks and then they worked all the way up and they were like in these glass cubes along this wall and they worked all the way up to a full term baby and it was kind of interesting.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: But the kids, for like two days before I leave, and they kept saying the first exhibit we're seeing is this baby exhibit dad, we got to see and I'm like that's fine, that's fine, let's go.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: You know we'll see the baby exhibit and you know my kids and my wife they had no idea that.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: You know I was praying about this and adoration.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: You know that I was praying about this abortion feeling that I had and you know how I felt.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: They had no idea and I just remember kind of going up the escalator.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: I had the kids in front of me and we're going up to the escalator to see this baby exhibit at the Science and Industry Museum and the kids run off the escalator, they run right to the first cube, you know, the four to six week old cube, and I remember saying to myself, I remember saying, well, you know, we're probably not going to recognize this fetus as a human, you know then probably just going to look like a blood clot or something, but we'll see.
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: And I remember walking up to that first cube, you know that had that first glass box, that had that first fetus, and at four to six weeks old, and I remember looking down, I remember saying to myself wow, that's not a blood clot, you know, that's not some group of cells or something that's unrecognizable, that's a really tiny little baby, you know, and it was really small.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: It was maybe, I want to say, three, four inches long and had a little head on.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: It had 10 little fingers, 10 little toes, you know, and I got really depressed, almost, like I almost had to like see that to believe.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: And then as I processed on down, you know, starting at four to six weeks and then kind of going down to the full term baby, my wife never even knew I was praying about this, you know she got to the eight to 10 week year old fetus, you know.
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: So we're eight to 10 weeks out and she looked over at me and she said hey, mike, you know, this is when a woman knows for sure that she's pregnant and if it's an unwanted pregnancy, this is kind of you know where she's wondering if she's going to have an abortion or not.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: You know, and of course you know, when we got to that eight to 10 week year old fetus, it was much more predominant as a baby, you know, it was bigger and everything else.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: And I remember I really kind of wanted to cry.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: I really did, but we were with other people and I, you know I didn't want to do that, jack, you know I didn't want to cry in front of those people crying in front of my kids.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: But I remember saying to myself what Douting Thomas said, you know.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: I said, you know my Lord and my God have mercy on me, a sinner.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: You know that I had been wrong all this time.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: You know I've been wrong by what I was told in the media from other people that you know that don't worry, it's not human, it's not a little baby, everything's going to be fine.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: You're just, you're boarding like some blood clot or you know something that's unrecognizable.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Wow, how I mean, how foolish is that and how foolish I was.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, science today will show us that that heart has been beating for a while already in that 10 week old baby.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: It's not just a silent thing, you can hear a heartbeat.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, amen.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: My wife had a miscarriage at 12 weeks and I picked that baby up in my hand and the baby was about as big as my hand, lengthwise, small, a little smaller than my hand.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: I remember.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: And same thing, I looked down on that baby and it had peach fuzz.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: It had two little eyes and ears and fingers and toes.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, I knew right away that that was my child, you know.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, there was no doubt about it.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: It's really something when you come face to face with that.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: So we know scientifically that there's life there, huh, and we know biblically there's life there.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: But I think, you know, we blind ourselves to that because, you know, we've become so selfish, so in tune, you know, you called it an advanced society now that the medical people and the science people would never take a real human being.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: And yet you know, modern man is probably more barbaric than they've ever been.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: You know, you think about that.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: You know how many children, but even the wars, michael, you know, just to change tune a little bit, to show how barbaric we are, modern science can develop nuclear bombs right, and so nuclear energy can be used to bring electricity to homes, yet it can be a bomb that can destroy a whole nation.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: So, advances we get, it still takes human judgment and the human heart.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: And I think what happens now is that through technology and through distractions and everything, we, our hearts, have become so divided, so divided from God, so we aren't in touch.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: It's almost like that dark place that you said when you were in adoration.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: I think that so many people are just walking in that dark place.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: You know they're disconnected from God.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: It's really sad to see that.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was a little bit of a surprise to me when I was praying in adoration and that happened.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: You know I didn't expect that at all.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: You know I was having I probably was having one of the best adoration experiences in my life until I started bringing up the things that I disagreed with the church on and things that I was a believer in abortion, and I thought that that was going to be perfectly fine.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: I could still follow God and God's like.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: No way you can't you can't follow.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: But you know what you just said again, this is so key to people that are listening today and for all of us that you just said I thought I was having the best adoration.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: I ever had and it was it really was Because.
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: God actually spoke to you.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: You know God is a.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: God of surprises, yeah.
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: And so many people will say, well, where is God in all this?
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: And you have to sit with God and you have to wait sometimes, you know, and you have to, you know he's going to surprise you.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: He's not going to come to all of us the same way at the same times and stuff, and it's amazing how that works.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: But one of the surprises is God is pro-life.
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: You know God's intent was that human beings would marry, have generations of children, fill the entire planet with life.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: You know, and this starts right from Genesis, god blessed them and God said to them be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: You know it's so beautiful.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: Again, when you think about what that child in the womb represents is part of this inner life, of the Trinity itself.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: So a man pours his love out to a woman, a woman receives that love and so beautiful and profound A life forms in that womb.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: So if you think about this image for a second, the two husband and wife become one, literally physically one, but this is body and soul.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: This is a sacramental sign and there's a moment in time that that life, that love bomb explosion between the husband and wife goes off and it's called a baby, it's called a zygote.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: There's literally three persons in one.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: My wife and I unite and boom, a sperm hits an egg.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: But you're never the sperm and you're never the egg.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: It's an actual explosion that happens and you become a zygote.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: You know you become.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: You have 50% of my DNA, 50% of my wife's DNA and there are literally three persons in one, a small, tiny, little bitty reflection of the three persons in one of the Trinity.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: And that's what that life in the womb represents, and God is there right from the beginning.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: It's a powerful movement.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think God created me so he knows what I need to convert me.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: He knows what I need to become more holier.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: I think he said, hey, mike needs to actually see this.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: And it was really kind of weird that my wife and my kids didn't even know I was praying about this, but they were like actively involved in it.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: You know, it was weird that my kids were acting so a couple days prior, like we got to see the baby exhibit.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, they must have said it a dozen times and I think the Holy Spirit was just in on this whole thing.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: You know that he was preempting them and I have to believe that because they would never act like that normally.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: It was very, very strange.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: You know that everyone was kind of on board of that, my wife the way.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: I still.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: I still can picture my wife today standing at that eight to 10 week, you know fetus and looking at me and just saying you know, hey, mike, you know, if a woman missed two cycles, this is when she knows for sure that she's pregnant.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: If it's an unwanted pregnancy, this is where she's considering abortion.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: I can still picture her face to that moment, right there.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: And she didn't even know, you know that I had been in adoration praying about this.
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: It was a little, it was crazy, but like Doughty Thomas, I needed to see to believe.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah but that's what happens, I think, so often in life.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: That happened in my life so many times and I'm sure, other people.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: If they really pay attention, this happens quite regularly when you're looking for some answer, and if you really pay attention, god will give you those, those answers in a number of different ways, as just happened to you, so that you know for sure that he was speaking to you.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: It happened first in your questioning, then it happens in adoration, then it happens from your children, then it happens from your wife, then it happens from from the science and industry itself, the museum where you actually see these babies, and so something changes in your heart.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: So it's something.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: If you pay attention to the science.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: God works, often through other people and through the sacramental science that we reveal something about God.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: All of creation does it's.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: I saw that exhibit one time and it's, it's really profound.
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: It's startling with somebody with a human heart to see those actual human beings.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Wow, it's.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: How did your kids take that?
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: Because that's a, that's something to see those babies, they're all they're, they're kind of like floating in an essence.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: You know, I mean they're.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: They're not moving, but they're, they're.
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: They're in this liquid right.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: That's preserving them.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: And yeah perfect.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: The last huge, or they were.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: Yes, you know, at the time, wow, you know, my, my kids, they loved everything to do with babies.
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: They were girls and they had little babies they would carry around.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: So they were just, they thought they were so cute.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: You know, they, I don't think they they didn't like correlate the whole thing that these were real life babies at one time, you know, but I did, and of course my wife did, you know it was, it was, it was sad, jack, it was.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: It was kind of a sad day for me.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so I do.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: You see this pretty day.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: No, where do you see?
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: this I mean, you know the brutality and the battle that we're going.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: We're going through now.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: I think you know it's really something and you know those of us that are on the pro-life battle know so many women that are in that battle.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: I know personally many women that are in that battle because they had abortions.
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: So you know Rachel's Vineyard in the Catholic Church.
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: You know helping women get through this.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: I work with a woman on a regular basis that works still in a crisis pregnancy facility to help women.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: You know when they're going through this.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: This is really something we have to help women through and men through too.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: It's a tough time when you come to terms with this.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: What are your feelings on all that?
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, we do have to support our crisis pregnancy centers.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: I know there's one in South Elgin, there's one in Aurora, I believe.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: I know we have one out here in Rockford, in Freeport, that my wife and I since we just kind of moved out to this area will be supporting.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: And we do have to support those because sometimes women who are pregnant, who are in trouble, you know they're like well, you know, all you Catholics do is preach that abortion is wrong, but then you have no answer.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: You know you have no answer for help.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, which is really not true, you know, because I always say that yeah.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: Well, that's not true.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: You know, here you go.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: All you really have to do is Google it out on your phone and you can come up to.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: You know you can go to one at any time for financial assistance.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: So they're sprouting up at a lot of small cities and, of course, in Chicago, and they need to be.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we need to have an answer for this.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to walk with women.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: But if we don't bring up these issues then nobody knows it's wrong.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: You know they feel just like you did.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: And that's what young people are told today.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: They're told that that it's just a tumor, it's just a blob of tissue.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: And yet, you know, we know this innately.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: You know, when my wife first came to me the first time and said, I just said to the doctor I'm pregnant, and she was like two and a half months pregnant or whatever, just like you said, she missed a couple of periods.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: Sure, and I mean, I just remember the joy and the power of that.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: You know, on the other hand, if you weren't expecting a baby, you know there's the surprise of that can be really something too.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: And look at, I know good Catholic men that would be totally against abortion.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: And then something happens there and they get, they get a woman pregnant, right, and then all of a sudden, well, you know I can't do this right now, or, or they're cheating on their wife, or you know, they came in right and all of a sudden, wow, the reality hits them.
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: And this shows you how this beautiful sacrament of the two becoming one, the sexual intimacy that we seek, can be very selfish, you realize.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: You know that's.
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: That's where your heart really is exposed.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: You know, when a woman gets pregnant, from a man standpoint, how much do I really love that woman.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: Am I here for her and a family, or am I here just for myself?
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: We know, mike, mike, this, this hookup culture and the sexual revolution has devastated people, marriages, families.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: Look at the dysfunction we see.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: You know, at the end of the day, the, the, the sacrament itself, that sexual union is sacred and so is the life that comes from it.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: And if and and and that doesn't again keep us from reaching out and helping all of those who have not heard the gospel ahead of time, or or just find yourself in a tough situation, or rape or anything else.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: I mean these lot of situations go on.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, one of the another woman who really changed my life.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Rape is such a horrible, horrible thing.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, actually it's making me mad right now just talking about it, you know, because we had people in our family and friends, you know, that had been assaulted, you know, and how devastating it was, how, how horrible it was, you know, and I was kind of struggling myself with that issue, you know, like you know, after the Science and Industry Museum, I'm like, ok, you know, I get this, but what you know?
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: What about?
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: What about rape, you know, and this woman came to our church, jack, and I don't know if you remember or not, her name was Rebecca Kisling.
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: It's spelled K I, E, s, s, l I N G, and I think you did a podcast with her.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: I did.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: You can release that yeah.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: So she came.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: She came to St Patrick's in St Charles like almost 20 years ago and she is actually.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Her dad was a serial rapist in Detroit and her her mom was was raped by her father and I don't know.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: I think the guy spent a life in prison.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: I think he actually raped like 12 or 15 women, something of that nature.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: She goes through it in her podcast, I'm sure, and you know she said she goes.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: You know, here she is, she's as smart as a whip and she got a beautiful family herself.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: I think she's married to a dentist and she's attorney.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: She's an attorney.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she's she's awesome, you know, and she, she actually debated against Gloria already in New York.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: I mean, she, she, she's, she, I will.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: I won't want to argue with her, no, but it's it how.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: I sure she's, she's awesome.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: But you know, she changed my life.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: She goes, you know, for someone to say to me, just because you know I was a product of rape, for someone to say to me that my life has no meaning, that's, that's ridiculous, you know.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: And she really promotes the fact that two wrongs don't make a right.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: You know that assault is absolutely horrible for the women and then, all of a sudden, you know, two months later, you're going to take her into an abortion facility and then have an abortion on top of it.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: It's really, really can be extremely devastating for women and very, very tough on women that they, they're, they're first trying to, you know, trying to cope with the, the rape, and then, all of a sudden, you know two, two and a half, three months later now they're coping with an abortion, and how horrible that is.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: And there are some women believe it or not, you know there's some women who actually have the baby and they have a baby.
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: They either they either raise the child after rape, or they, they put it up for adoption.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: And I've gotten to the point in my life where you know, hear this little baby, you know that baby's not to blame for what happened.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: You know that's the result of it.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: And to actually just go and murder that child, you know, I, I think we're creating two wrongs and those two wrongs, they, they're never going to make a right.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: And it's hard for me to say, because I'm a girl, that you know I have all girls.
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: It's hard for me to say this, but I think adoption is, is the option.
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: You know, I mean, I think adoption is the option.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's how we go, that's how we roll.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: And, jack, you and I have so many people that we know that have trouble conceiving, that they can't have any children, and what a wonderful gift it would be for them.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: You know that if, if someone were to give up a child like that and say you know, here's your baby.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: Now, you know, I'm going to give this child up for adoption, you know that that could be the way our society can roll at this point.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: I think we have to do a better job of educating and you know we have to.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: We have to just get out there and, you know, speak up against this.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: You know that this abortion is gotten way out of control.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: I think we're At one time we're a million abortions in the United States.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Just, you know, just the United States, per year.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: You imagine a million per year.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: And we were quick to speak out against Hitler and you know the concentration camps were quick to speak, speak out against Stalin and communism and how many Millions of people he killed.
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: But you know what we're not, we're no better.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: You know, for a million a year since 1973.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: It's a lot of yeah and not only that you know and look at, I'm gonna just mention Rebecca real fast, I will put her.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: I will put this, the show that we did together, in the show notes for anybody that wants to listen to her, because I think the best case Rebecca makes the best case for that.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: I remember her speaking about just saying I had to come to terms, that that I am, I Am a child of rape, that my father was a rapist, you know and didn't care about me at all, you know.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, she said this was very, very difficult to come to terms with and and she read something she was brought to.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: She was brought to church one day and by in college by some Christians and it happened to be a reading from Ezekiel and it was about the faith, the spouse.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: So God is speaking through Ezekiel to his people who have been walked away.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: Then you know from him and he called them.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: You know prostitutes and and you know Harlets.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: You, you walked away for other gods, you know.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: And then and then this happened.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: This is Ezekiel 16, verses 6.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Then I passed by and I saw you well-turing in your own blood, and this is what Rebecca heard.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: She said this is what changed her.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: I said to you live in your blood and grow like a plant in the field.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: You grew and developed.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: You came of AIDS, of puberty, your breast reform, your here had grown, but you were stark naked, so you weltered in your blood.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: So then I spread the corner of my cloak over you to cover your nakedness.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: I swore an oath to you and entered in a covenant with you and you became mine, said the Lord.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: Then I bathed you and washed you away.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: I washed away your blood, I anointed you with oil, I clothed you and and put an embroidered gown on you.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: I put sandals on your feet and fine leather.
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: I gave you fine linen, sash and silk robes to wear and I adorn you with jewelry.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: And it goes on and on.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: And she realized that she was loved by God, she realized that this was God speaking to her and that she was the one weltering.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: And in her own blood, the umbilical cord not even cut, and she said God came down at that moment and touched me.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: You know, here's another surprise, right?
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: It's amazing how that goes.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: You know, when we talk about scripture, there was a Jewish, there was a woman that I worked with in pro-life and she has a number of Jewish friends, and these Jewish friends of hers say that no life, you know, it's not a baby until it comes out.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: It's not a human until it comes out of the mother's womb.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: And and this woman just goes oh my gosh, you're Jewish and you don't even know the Old Testament.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: You know, yeah, just here's Psalm 139 and here's God speaking to his people.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: Right, god knows us from the room, the womb, long before Altar sound allowed us to peer into the mystery of life in the womb.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: God, who sees and knows, all reports this year.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: So this is Psalm 139.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: As I formed For you.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: He says for you, formed in in my inward parts.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: You knitted me together in my mother's womb.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: I praise you for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: Wonderful are your works.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: This is the psalmist talking about God.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: My soul knows it well.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: And just one more real quick, from Jeremiah one this is always my favorite one God calls us from the womb.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: From the womb, god sees us.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: And so in Jeremiah 1 5, before I formed you, even in the womb, I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you, I appointed you as a prophet to the nations, and.
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: And that's from the Old Testament.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: And there are many, many, many like that in the Old Testament.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: And of course, you know from the New Testament.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: You know you.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: You have the Holy Spirit hovering over our blessed mother and forms Jesus in the womb.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: And then one of my favorite ones from the New Testament is from from Luke, where so our blessed mother goes to visit Elizabeth, who's pregnant with John the Baptist, and and they hear Mary's voice and Elizabeth says and the baby Jumped in the in in my womb and I knew, right, she knew.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: And so so again, you know, over and over and over again, this comes to us in Scripture.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: So for people to say that they're they're Christians or Jewish and say that no, I don't believe this.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: This is hard for me to understand, michael.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: It's easier for me to understand an atheist saying this.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: And it is for people that say that they're Christians or Catholics, and or Jewish.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: You know, I hope some of our Jewish rabbis are listening, our Jewish friends.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's ridiculous.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: You know that there's so much in the Old Testament that talks about this.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: I I almost can't believe that.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: I almost can't believe they believe what they believe.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: You know, it's, it's absolutely crazy, and so I hope, I hope people come around.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: I really do.
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: I hope I hope our society becomes less evil on this.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: I hope that we have less and less abortions as time goes on.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: I hope we can get it down to zero.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: I really do.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: That's my that's my prayer, and that's my hope.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, but but it won't until we understand again the sacredness of marriage again.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: You know, you know, we live in a pornographic culture a hook-up culture.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: More and more young people are not even bothering to get married because they don't.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: They don't understand even the point of being married.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: They don't understand the sacrament, the beauty behind it.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: When a man looks at a woman, now to see the beauty and to see the mystery of God within, and you know, when you look at a woman as body parts, then you look at as as the, as the baby in the womb is just body parts, and so it's not until you see the sacred in the woman that you see the sacred in the woman's womb.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: It's just the reality of it.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: When you see Pornography and then you turn that into a relationship with a real woman, that's how you see her and, of course, that's how you'll see the baby.
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: It's nothing to you that comes out of that.
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: We've.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: We've totally twisted and degraded.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: We just twisted and turned this beautiful sacrament Into just nothing and and this is the battle right now.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: You know, in our culture it's really over.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: Marriage in the family and the child becomes a byproduct of of that, of just my own loss, my own selfishness, until we start to open ourselves up to prayer and sit, like you did, in adoration and let God into our hearts If this won't change the issue that we're talking about comes from a lack of love for one another, a lack of seeing the other human person as a as someone's sacred, created in the image and likeness of God.
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: Deacon Mike, when you take God out of Of the culture and out of marriages and out of your own heart, you'll never come to terms, you know, you know with with human life.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: And so how are you going to look at the most vulnerable, innocent among us and care about them if you don't even care about the person standing right next to you?
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: You know, yeah it's only amen, amen.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: You know, we, we have to get back.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: We have to get back to having a Relationship with God.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: You know, in our lives and that goes for everybody, you know, all of us.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: So we have and we have to always work on deepening that relationship with him.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: You know, and it all, it all starts with prayer, it all starts with communication with him, amen.
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so so let's, when we're we're moving out of here, that you know, I I give a couple quick pointers that so, so important in my life, deacon Mike, and maybe you can add to that I always tell people three, three important things you can do Every day.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: So simple.
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: Before you look at that ridiculous little screen, we call a phone today, you know, in the morning, before you reach for that phone which, because that's our habit, right, reach for the phone, just drop to your knees and just say be it done to me According to your word, just like our blessed mother, when, when the annunciation came we're talking about a baby here and when the annunciation came, mary was so open to God that she was literally impregnated with God.
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: And this is what we do on our knees.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: We actually are open, our fiat, we.
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: You can picture yourself kneeling at your bed With our blessed mother and and you say yes to God and you'll literally be impregnated with God in a spiritual you know, being spiritually pregnant, but in a real way.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: We're temples of the Holy Spirit.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: So that's number one.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: Do that first, open that up, and then, every time, the temptation now temptation will come, because you put yourself in a battle now Every temptation that comes.
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: Open that.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: Open that to God.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: Use temptation not as something to try to get away from, but as an invitation to prayer.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: If every time I had a temptation, I opened that temptation and asked God, just like I did on my knees, to come into my Heart, you will be praying all day long, especially if you have addictions and attractions that you're trying to get rid of.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: And then the third thing is, once you're filled with the spirit, go out and become that visible reality of love in the world.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: So I'm filled with with the divine life and love.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: I have to become that divine.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: So the next person you see when you get up off your knees, the next person you see, be kind to that person.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: If it's your wife, it's the cashier at the, at the grocery store, whoever that is, if you're on the phone, you know you have to become a person of love.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: Those things will change you.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: And then, of course, you're going to need a couple other things, don't you deacon, like the sacraments, for one thing, and the rosary, and any, what, what, what other things?
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: Give us a pointer that's that's important to you what, what, what.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: What really Do you do on a daily basis that brings you closer?
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean, definitely, a daily mass is great, you know, daily mass is awesome.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: It's that to that, to me, was, was a game changer for me.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: You know when you're, you get the word, you get the word of god and then you get food for the journey in the Eucharist, where you know you take the Eucharist in and Jesus grows within you.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: That, that was really, that was really has been my game changer.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: And then, frequent confession for me.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: Um, I try to go, I, I try to go to confession every three weeks, um, and I, I probably should start going every other week, you know, just to get my soul cleaned up and get those graces from god In the confessional.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: It's so, so, so important.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: And then, um, times in silence.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: You know, and I know we're all busy, jack, we're all running around like, you know, crazy people.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Um, I get it, but really try to.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: If you can't get in front of a tabernacle, you can't get in front of adoration or in an adoration chapel, use those times of silence.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: You know we have times of silence at your house or times of silence in your car.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: Uh, use those times of silence to use that in prayer and use that to talk to christ.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: You know, and a lot of times I'll just talk to god from my heart.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: You know, I won't even say anything out loud, I just kind of keep it to myself in my heart and I just talk to him through my heart and through my head.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: You know, and I try to do that it.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: You know, obviously, in moments of silence, you know, I've done that to and from work in my car, I've done that, um, you know, just at my house, if I have some, some time in silence.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: So so, use those times of silence to your advantage.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: They're, they're so precious.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: And sit with god, right, just sit with them, because we don't.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: We don't listen, we don't listen.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: I mean sitting in silence.
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: You know, you pray and then you don't have to say anything.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: Don't fill up that silence, right?
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: That's what you're saying?
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: Allow, allow god to speak to you, just like he did in that adoration chapel.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: If you weren't quiet, god would never speak to you.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: He can't speak?
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: How can he speak to all this noise?
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: I think that's one of our biggest problems again with these phones.
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: You know that we don't give god that room to speak.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: You know it's, it's.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: It's one thing to say I can't believe in god, I don't hear him.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: It's another thing when you never try to listen.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: So so it is something right.
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: It is god bless you, michael.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: Thanks for uh, thanks for being with us again today.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: I appreciate it.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: Thanks for your time and maybe bring us out with a prayer, Will you?
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: sure, jack, thanks for having me.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: Also just want to say thank you for all you do for uh, for everyone out there listening, so it's been great.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: And, uh, I just want to send special prayers down for, uh, women who have been assaulted, for women, uh, who've had abortions and and really you hate to stay this for the lustful men you know behind those abortions.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: Let's pray for them today.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: Let's have the holy spirit come down upon them and and heal their broken hearts and, uh, let's, let's get them back to god, let's get them in relationship with jesus, and let's just say a hell mary prayer for them.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: Hell mary, full of grace.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: The lord is with thee.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: Blessed are thou, blessed is the fruit of thy womb, jesus.
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: Holy mary, mother, pray for us sinners Now, at the hour of our death.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: Amen, amen and father, son, holy spirit, amen, thanks.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: Thank you, mike.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: Great to be with you.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: Goodbye everyone.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you everybody.