Latest / Houselights: A Film Director Podcast / Dr Strangelove (1964) - Stanley Kubrick | Houselights #125

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Dr Strangelove (1964) - Stanley Kubrick | Houselights #125 · Houselights: A Film Director Podcast

0:03
Welcome to the nerd polity. Welcome back to the silarium of Stanley Kubrick here
0:24
on the house Lights podcast. I am John Mills, and I'm joined here
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on house Lights as we continue this exploration of Stanley Kubrick of the nineteen sixties
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with my dear friends Tristan Riddell and Darren Moser. Gentlemen, welcome to the
0:38
war room. Please remember to mind your manners. Yes, no fighting or
0:43
arguing about topics of podcasting in the war room. Exactly. I expect decorum,
0:49
and of course people should know then if we're in the war room,
0:52
we are talking about Stanley Kubrick's classic film, one of the first twenty five
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films selected for the National Registry Film Preservation. I always forget all the words
1:02
that go into that, but the one that saves movies. It was one
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of the first twenty five selected Doctor Strangelove or How I Learned to Stop Worrying
1:11
and Love the Bomb. So let's get right into it, gentlemen, because
1:15
this is let's not beat around the bush. This is one of those movies
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like Citizen Kane, where it's gonna be really interesting to bring our own perspectives
1:23
to the discussion. But this is a movie that has been long acknowledged and
1:27
discussed over many many iterations, releases, mistaken aspect ratios on LaserDisc and all
1:36
of those sorts of things. So let's just kick it off with a question
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we always love to ask before the doomsday device goes off, Tristan, when
1:45
was the first time that you were exposed to Doctor Strangelove. The first time
1:49
I ever saw this one was actually in a high school film class. It
1:56
was a really really cool class. I really enjoyed it. It was the
1:59
only thing that we have any related to anything kind of entertainment or cultural towards
2:05
movies or anything like that. And the teacher was super old, like just
2:10
on the verge of retiring, and he showed us some really good movies and
2:15
this was one of them. And I actually got a copy of this film
2:21
on VHS because, like at the my wasn't my senior year. It was
2:25
either my junior year or senior year. But when I took the class that
2:29
was his last year before he retired. He gave me all of his teaching
2:35
materials, Like he gave me just three boxes full of books and movies that
2:39
he used to show his classes, you will take my place, and then
2:46
he faded away into nothing. It very much felt like that, like we
2:51
we definitely had a connection. I mean for obvious reasons. I mean like
2:54
I was absolutely love with film and I knew a lot about it, and
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he could tell that I was really interested and wanted to learn as much as
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I could, and total tangent like one um uh we uh we got to
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talk about we got to take an area a decade, like an area of
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film and give a presentation on it. And I was in the twenties and
3:17
dressed up like the tramp like Charlie Chaplin to give my presentation, and he
3:22
absolutely loved it. He was just over the moon. But anyway, so
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he was really excited about this film, like he loved this film, like
3:30
he was all like he even though he'd seen this a thousand times. He
3:35
was in the back of the room and every once in a while you'd hear
3:37
like a hack just just him, just like like given an old knee slapper.
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And so that was the first and probably only time I watched it was
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when I was in high school. And then once in preparation for this podcast,
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well Levin knows it wasn't the last time you dressed as a tramp,
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Darren? When did you for to come across Doctor Strangelove? You know,
4:02
it's a very similar story. It was definitely film school for me in college,
4:06
and I don't think it was a class though. So I lived with
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four other film students in an apartment. So guess what we did. We
4:15
made films, and we watched films and we listen to soundtrack. It's like
4:18
all we did all the time. And so I believe they are the ones
4:24
who introduced me to Doctor Strangelove, saying, oh, you haven't seen it,
4:28
Oh, let's make it a night, this will be what we watch.
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And yeah, it was such a fun It's a fun movie. It's
4:36
got good comedy in it. It's I mean, it's black and white,
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but it uses black and white in such a good way. It's not just
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like, oh, we're gonna put your camera in the black and white mode
4:48
and it doesn't really do anything because you're not actually thinking about light and where
4:54
your camera is and all of that. And I know we'll get more into
4:57
the kubrickness of this movie, but I enjoyed it. I enjoyed Peter Sellers
5:03
three times over, So it was it was a good time. I learned
5:08
to love the bomb that day. Well. And Peter Sellers and we'll discuss
5:12
this in a little bit was supposed to be in it four times over,
5:14
but pulled his own fast one to get out of doing that. But my
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first exposure to Doctor Strangelove was actually performing the phone call of President Merkin Muffley
5:27
in one of my speech and debate tournaments that I went to in high school.
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The lady who was the speech and debate coach, she said, hey,
5:34
John, you'd do great with this. Here. Let's see you go
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into a tournament with that. And so I read it, I practiced it.
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I had no idea what it was from. I had no idea what
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it came from. And I read it, and I, you know,
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you're you're a teenager and you haven't seen the movie and you're trying to perform
5:51
this scene. And I remember having fun with it, and I was like,
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oh, that's kind of funny. And I moved on. And then
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in college watch in a film analysis class, and it was the infamous laser
6:04
disc edition where they had the matting change throughout the entire thing, so that
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there were you know, there were all these things that I remember the professor
6:15
at the time talking about. This is Kubrick making a comment on this thing,
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and the and the open matt here indicates the Kubrick recognizes the artifice of
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parody blah blah blah blah blah, only to come to find out that that
6:28
guy was talking completely out of his ass and was basically inferring reasoning in an
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erroneous transfer that was made. So, you know, we all came to
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it, it seems at roughly the same time. You know, we were
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teenagers, the world was crazy, we wanted to learn about, you know,
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the fear of nuclear war and all of those sorts of things. But
6:50
coming into it as a satire, its source material is Red Alert, a
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thriller novel, and so we find once again Kubrick adapting another work and making
7:03
it his own. But what I want to hit on first, Darreon,
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you mentioned how this was in black and white, and the first movie we
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watched in this series is in beautiful technicolor and it's Spotocus, And now we've
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got two films in a row in black and white. What do you think
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black and white brings to Doctor Strangelove as a decision instead of shooting it in
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color. Well, I think black and white goes hand in hand with shot
7:34
composition because when you take the not that grays aren't color, but when you
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take the color aspect out, you start to look way more at the silhouette
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of people, how they're placed against the background, the framing, the tangents
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of objects striking the edge of the frame, all of these things I think
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become more pronounced, and especially when you have a director like Kubrick. And
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not that all directors aren't like this, but Kubrick is I put the camera
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where I want it for a reason, Like every shot, like I can't
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believe. I mean, maybe not on the shots, but most of the
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shots you can infer that he is specifically choosing exactly what he's showing, not
8:18
like, oh, just put it over there, maybe a wide shot like
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I can't I can't imagine that. But but this generates so many iconic moments
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in this movie. From probably the most one is the wide downward through the
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oval shot of the war room, which is just very iconic, but even
8:39
in the other places, the way that in the General's office with it's almost
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kind of shot like a play like it's shot very much from one direction.
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We always kind of see that back wall with Captain man Drake and the General
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or not General Kernel whatever wherever he was the one who goes crazy. But
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it's kind of very singular in its focus. And then you have the cramped
9:07
quarters of the mostly black interior of the airplane. So you just get all
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of these great things that not that it wouldn't work in color, but it
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works really well as a black and white movie. I uh, I agree.
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I think there are some other factors that go into that. I think
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there are certain um composite shots you know, that that work better um as
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a result um of being in black and white. I think that it's more
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forgiving of the plane effects, if you will, um that that happened,
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you know, I think color would have been fall that wasn't a model,
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because I'm pretty sure it was a model. Yeah yeahoo woo woo woa.
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Right, it was really the backdrop that's r because it's like we know the
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motion and it's like it was an enough that we knew what was going on,
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but it was it was probably the weakest part of the whole movie was
10:03
that. But but Darren, you know, you mentioned the photography and everything,
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and of course, the the legendary question Mark Gill Taylor, who later
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went on to Lens Star Wars with George Lucas Lens is this and so the
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ultimate question always comes back Tristan. We know that Kubrick told his DP in
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Spartacus to just sit down and you know, let him do the work.
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Do you detect a a director of photography helping and refining Kubrick here or do
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you detect Kubrick telling the director of photography, I know what I want,
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put the camera here, and this is what we're going to do this This
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feels like very much Kubrick. I really do believe that. I think the
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I mean when you look at the other stuff that the cinematographer has done,
11:00
and the the ability to adapt to that director or that style, that genre.
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Because we've seen so much of this in Lolita and so much of this
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in later pictures with other dps. It's kind of like, you know how
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we talked about with Christopher Nolan about when when Wally left him to go do
11:24
his own thing, direct his own pictures. We were like, oh man,
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what is a Nolan film going to look like? Without Wally and then
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the next one came out and you're like, oh, it looks the same,
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because that's what Nolan wants and that's what he's going to get. And
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so I feel like when you have someone who is such a powerful force,
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whether you like him or not, when you have someone who's such a powerful
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force like Kubrick, no matter what cinematography has, he's going to get the
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look and feel that he wants. Let me follow up with this question.
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Do you think that by this point in his career, a director of photography
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who signs on with Kubrick knows what he's getting into and it's just happy to
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go along for the ride. Or do you think the tailor showed up and
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was like, no, no, no, I'm going to get to do
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my own thing and it was a rude awakening for him. That is my
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guess. I don't think Kubrick was the name that I mean, we know
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he wasn't the name that he is now because this is this is pre full
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metal jacket, this is pre shining Well, it's pretty two thousand and one
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more than any pre two thousand and one absolutely, so like this is yeah,
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no, I that is my complete and utter guess. That the DP
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showed up, and it's just like, oh, okay, I guess I'm
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just a pair of hands. But you know what a glorious pair of hands
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you can be considering a previous one one, you know, an Oscar for
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sitting in a chests. Why he joined. He's like, hey, I
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get paid, I don't have to do anything, and I can win an
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Oscar. I mean, that's a pretty sweet gig if you think about just
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work in all the coffee I can drink, and baby, we got a
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stew going of humility and you're good. So, you know, Darren,
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you know, coming back around with this, you know, we unquestionably say
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that we look at this. I would say that of the three we've looked
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at so far, this is the first one where I immediately look at it
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and I say, I can see what Stanley Kubrick goes for in a movie.
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I get this right from from shot one. I'm like, oh,
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this looks like Stanley Kubrick. And I would argue that the absolutely biting,
13:33
intelligent satire like the Kubrick in this movie seems to really be sitting comfortably in
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a chair whereupon he's looking down at society and culture and pronouncing a loud judgment
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on an aspect of it. Do you feel that same energy coming through it,
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because for all of the comedy in this, this doesn't feel like somebody
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coming at it humorously, but somebody coming at it with a real point to
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make. Yeah, I can definitely kind of collaborate with that feeling of Kubrick
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sitting there. He knows now what he wants, he knows where he's gonna
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put the camera where he wants his actors and obviously they contribute to their roles,
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but yeah, this is by far a Kubrick movie. If you want
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to look at you know, Kubrick is ms, It's like, okay,
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it's these kinds of shots. It's them, you know, kind of that
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Kirk light on someone's eyes, you know where it's I mean, you know
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what I mean. But yeah, I think this is just it definitely knows
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a big Trick fan. But yeah, I think and it and it also
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feel it's a Kubrick thing. The fact that, yeah, just like you
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said, John, the writing is very sharp, but um, and it
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doesn't even those sellers has a lot that he's doing. It doesn't feel like
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that uh porch scene that we saw on Lolita where we could tell like,
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okay, he was given like five minutes with the script and he's just kind
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of ad living it. We're like, what is going on? There was
15:16
none of that like if the if the if the take happened like that.
15:18
It didn't make it to screen, right, But uh yeah, And I
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mean, gosh, you got some jewels you got you know, gentlemen,
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you can't find it. Here's the war room, Like, oh my gosh.
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It's so it's funny every time, every time George, I laugh hysterically
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almost at every single thing that George c Scott says. So you can't let
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him in here. He'll see you everything, He'll see the big word.
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Yeah, you know what, I'm glad you mentioned George, call me.
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You can't call me here. Oh yeah, honey, I'm gonna maccuse the
15:52
future missus Baker something. Sorry. Yeah, and that that is you know.
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I'm glad we got to George c Scott because, according to legend and
16:04
so on, Kubrick kind of tricks George C Scott into playing this role the
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way that he wanted. And then it was after the release that George C
16:15
Scott said, oh okay, I get it right, Like this wasn't really
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what George kind of a characture. He's not really a person. None of
16:25
these people are people, right, And so I want to I want to
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ask you, Chris, and you know, as a director, Kubrick really
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a lot of times gets he can get maybe justifiably dragged for being a bit
16:37
of a sturm and dragged guy. You didn't give me exactly what I wanted.
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We're going to do one hundred and fifty thousand takes until I get exactly
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what I wanted. Do you think that benefits this movie? Do you do
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you feel the hand of a director with that laser focus getting those specific performances
16:53
out of people. I didn't really feel the exact o knife. And I
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think that's a credit to him, the director, And I think it's also
17:06
a credit to the actors because with the George C. Scott stuff, like
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I never would have guessed what you just said about him being tricked into giving
17:15
that type of performance or giving that kind of corny one liners, like I
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really it really felt like every single person was in on the joke. And
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whether that is a credit to the director or the actors or both, I
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don't know. But I cannot say exactly. I can't speak exactly to that
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because to me, this felt like a bunch of professionals getting together who understood
17:45
what was going on, what their assignment was, and showed up to work.
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And I think it really they all pulled it off, and they pulled
17:52
off flawlessly, Like when you look at even with Ripper like this, it
18:00
would have been so easy for that for that actor to play Ripper with chewing
18:07
the scenery and twirling his mustache. But that scene when he's talking about have
18:14
you ever seen a commy drink of glass of water? And I was like,
18:18
well, no, I can't say I have. You know, it's
18:22
just like and like that they go and like talking about like he believes in
18:26
what he's saying, Like that's how crazy he is. He doesn't think what
18:30
he's saying is crazy. He thinks he's the sainest man in the room.
18:34
Oh well, I mean yeah, yeah, I mean you know, Sterling
18:37
Hayden is definitely the right guy to get for that sort of thing. He
18:41
has that type of voice in presence that that's going on there. But what's
18:45
really great about general Rippers conspiracy theories is that the US government. You know
18:56
that the military, the intelligence community actually would do things like massively floridate in
19:03
enemy camps water to make them more docile. So you can see where a
19:07
tiny you know, something like that, somebody could be like, well wait
19:11
a minute, if they're doing that and they play in the water, right,
19:15
and then there is I think what it is is that there there is
19:18
an examination there in that character of how the whole point of the movie is
19:25
that the people running things are buffoons who don't know there. They're butt from
19:32
a hole in the ground and you see them do these horrific things. Why
19:37
wouldn't you think that they're trying to pull these sorts of things off, Like
19:40
it's not that big a leap, Like he's obviously gone too far with everything,
19:45
but you can understand he's been immersed in this. It's eventually going to
19:48
break somebody and make them go nuts. And Darren, I think that what
19:53
gets I'm of the opinion that what gets overlooked a lot with Doctor Strangelove the
19:59
film is that Ripper is a character who is more a comment on what's happening
20:07
to all of us under these pressures of the Cold War. And I think
20:14
that heat I think I do think that Hayden's performance, you know, Tristan,
20:18
you rightly point out he delivers it exactly the way it needs to be.
20:22
I think Hayden gets overshadowed by Sellers, overshadowed by Scott. I don't
20:27
know that that's necessarily fair. Do you feel that there are any other actors
20:34
who get overshadowed by the sellers, you know, the multiple roles of Sellers
20:38
and some of the you know, the showier aspects of this. Do you
20:44
think that some of the supporting performances get lost or do you think everybody gets
20:48
a fair amount of amount of recognition for what they've done here. It's it's
20:52
tricky because there's not actually a lot of characters in this movie, and like
20:57
thirty percent of them are Peter Sellers. So m gosh I would say,
21:04
yeah. I mean, it's interesting again to talk about Hayden as as Brigader
21:08
General Ripper, because that's an interesting pairing because he is playing the super straight
21:17
man, but Peter Sellers as the RAF Exchange officer is also kind of playing
21:23
the straight man, so it kind of it works, but it works in
21:26
a different way. Versus the President and the General. The President is the
21:33
straight man and the General is the funny man like he is, you know,
21:37
going off the off the rails. So yeah, it I think,
21:41
like you said, Sellers is overshadowing him because he's almost not playing the right
21:48
type for that kind of engagement or what we're used to. I mean,
21:51
obviously you can play it with two straight man in a situation, it's just
21:55
a very different vibe. Yeah, I don't know, it'd be hard to
21:59
say and pick out other characters because again, there's just only a handful of
22:03
people really in this. I mean we only know or notice James Earl Jones
22:11
in the B fifty two Bomber because we know who James Earl Jones is,
22:14
but pretty much anyone else in that cockpit and they're basically an extra, like
22:18
next to King Kong, because he is such a strong personality and nuance that
22:26
maybe there's a little overshadowing there. And Turston, how happy do you think
22:30
that Slim Pickens was when Peter Sellers refused to play the role of Major T
22:36
J. King Kong. Because one can argue that Slim Pickens winds up with
22:41
one of the most iconic scenes in film history. I don't think you would
22:45
even argue it. It is one of the most iconic scenes in film history.
22:51
Like how happy must an actor be to get that call and wind up
22:56
getting that getting this opportunity of the draw, right, Yeah, I would.
23:00
I would love to find out more. I'm sure there's interviews with Slim
23:06
you know, after this and well after this about you know, how how
23:10
he felt about being able to ride the bomb down to Doom's day and and
23:15
and You're right, I mean, it is, it's iconic. It's it's
23:19
permeated throughout our pop culture. I mean I always I know this sounds stupid,
23:25
but don't make fun of me, but I always think about Steve Bushimi
23:27
in um in Armageddon when he's when he's on top of the nuke on the
23:33
asteroid between my legs brother, He's like, I just want to feel the
23:37
power between my legs brother, you know, like Slim Pickens in that movie.
23:41
Ah, never mind, Like it's just it's just so, it's so
23:47
funny, like he it's it's it would have been one way to like you
23:52
easily could have had a guy gripping onto it for dear life and screaming to
23:56
his death. But no, like you have a guy in a boy hat,
24:00
you know, waving his arms in the air. He got it out
24:03
of his safe. He kept the cowboy hat and the safe for when it
24:07
was time. And and he goes down wooing, and it's just he's he's
24:12
inviting death, and he finds it hilarious, and he sees it as one
24:17
last ride, and it's you know, it it in it that in itself,
24:22
just that one little moment. Yeah, we we think it's funny.
24:25
Yeah, we think it's iconic, and it's it's an indelible moment that's in
24:29
our brains. But that moment, in itself is commentary on where we are
24:37
at the human race when we're when we're staring atomic death in the face,
24:41
whether it's I mean what you know, whether it's through you know, atomic
24:45
death, through disease, famine, um climate, you know, like war,
24:51
whatever it is. You know, like so much of the time,
24:53
like some of us are just kind of gonna go, what can you do?
24:56
Might as well enjoy the ride. And we're shake in our cowboy hats
25:00
as we're wooing into into doomsday. Well that's a really chipper way to look
25:06
at it. But I think also is um, what's what's a note is
25:10
that according to you know, the Book of Knowledge, Um, the part
25:15
was apparently originally written with John Wayne himself in mind, and he turned it
25:21
down immediately. According to a biographer of Terry Southern, I cannot imagine that.
25:27
I can, well, man, I so can. I can absolutely
25:30
imagine John Wayne in that role, and delicious Apparently Dan Blocker from Bonanza was
25:37
approached to play the part and rejected it, and then Cob and then so
25:41
Pickens was not right away the choice. And in a delightful anecdote, apparently
25:49
when Slim Pickens showed up on set, he was dressed the way he normally
25:55
dresses, which or normally dressed, I should say, with a cowboy hat,
25:59
fringe jacket, in boots. And everybody thought he had gone so far
26:03
as to show up in character, and it took them a moment to realize,
26:07
oh no, that's just who he is. That's like, he's not
26:10
putting on an act. His name is sim that's his name. One would
26:15
one would argue that he's he's playing true to brand on that one for sure.
26:22
But one thing that I think is interesting about this in specific is it
26:30
is such a heavy topic, But at no point does it feel heavy Darren,
26:33
Do you think that that is because of the deafness of the editing.
26:38
Do you think that it's um just the like, is it just the performances,
26:44
or do you think that things are edited in such a way because Kober
26:47
is typically known for making rather lengthy films. When you think nice and fast,
26:52
it's like ninety minutes. Uh No, I think the editing as so
26:57
far as it is the editor and the story. The fact that we're jumping
27:02
around between almost these vignettes, like there's like maybe like four or five actual
27:07
locations in this movie, and it inner weaves between them flawlessly, Like I
27:15
never feel like, oh I wonder what's going on in the with the president
27:18
right now? Oh well, we're here, we're back and we're seeing what's
27:21
happening with the Alexei taking pictures with this camera phone and you know, all
27:25
these things. But uh yeah, you and even where you would almost think
27:30
like the RAF officer all the with Mandrik, I'd say, of all the
27:37
of all the roles, his you could feel like is not not needed,
27:44
but it's less than what's happening on the plane or in the war room.
27:49
But he's the right person, right place, right time, moment because he
27:53
has the information and he, you know, is able to give the prefix
27:56
code. But uh yeah, and you know it shoots up a Coca Cola
28:03
machine. But no, I think that's probating all these moments works really really
28:10
well. And yeah, and it's it. It doesn't feel like a fractured
28:14
story. It feels like and probably because it's told chronologically. But I think
28:18
the editing is very, very good. So, Tristan, I gotta ask,
28:25
when you first saw it or when you watched it this time, did
28:27
you pick up any commentary on Operation paper Clip in the character of Doctor Strangelove.
28:33
Do you think that Kubrick was going for comment on that? Oh god,
28:37
no, no, I didn't get it at all. I was I
28:38
was way too young to fully appreciate this movie. I was way too young
28:42
to get the commentary on paper Clip on strange level. No, I no,
28:47
absolutely not. Like I I think watching it now made me realize that
28:55
you need some years under your belt to really unders stand this picture, to
29:00
really understand this movie and and the cynicism behind it. And I mean,
29:07
and that's what it is like. Usually cynicism is a dirty word, But
29:10
this is this is very much a cynical movie with a purpose. And I
29:15
don't think you can be young and naive with a youthful look on the world
29:22
and like I'm gonna grow up and I'm going to change the world. Like
29:25
no, you're not sit down like you need to have You need to have
29:30
been defeated a few times. You need to have voted for a fantastic candidate
29:34
who then gets into a sex scandal like you. You need those kind of
29:38
disappointments in your life to truly get the humor, Like you have a sick,
29:44
desperate laugh, like when you laugh at this stuff when you fully realize
29:48
what's happening. And you can't do that as a as a fourteen or fifteen
29:53
year old. So with that in mind, I do agree with you,
29:57
Tristan, like this is satire works best when you know a little bit about
30:03
what it's satirizing. Darren, do you think that Doctor Strangelove still has as
30:11
relevant a place in modern society or do you think that this winds up becoming
30:15
a time capsule movie because people don't relate to the threat of nuclear annihilation in
30:19
quite the same way that they did, you know, until arguably the nineteen
30:25
nineties when people relax just a tiny bit about it. Yeah, I think
30:30
I wouldn't say time capsule, just because there is all there's the broader strokes
30:36
of the US versus them. You know, you can easily interpret, you
30:40
know, the foreign power, you know, to be whatever you want.
30:44
And my goodness, they've made enough movies about the Cold War and all that
30:48
that we all, even if we didn't live it, we know what happened,
30:51
or we know we've been preached at about that. So yeah, now
30:55
I think, but it's you talk about satire. It's interesting because, um
31:02
I recently watched Starship Troopers again, which I mean, my god, you
31:06
want about satire, that is, but that's satire in a very different way.
31:10
But see, what's interesting I'm glad you mentioned Starship Troopers is there were
31:12
a ton of people that didn't get that that was satire. And it's like
31:17
that was really always it wasn't the people of the time. I remember when
31:22
that movie got released, and it was the first R rated movie I ever
31:25
saw where they were actually checking your ID not just when you bought the ticket,
31:29
but they checked your ID when you walked into the theater. They were
31:33
not allowing. Anybody at the theater just wanted to know more. John,
31:36
That's okay, it's okay, no more. Well, And a lot of
31:38
people don't get that, um that uh that the source material book by Highland
31:45
is really dark satire. I knew somebody who thought it was very um pro
31:52
fascist, so that that's why I sort of like the satirical it is.
31:55
But it's not because well it is as yeah, oh yeah, I mean
32:02
that in the context of um, you know, the point of view of
32:07
the characters is what's being pilloried in that. And it's a contemporary of this
32:12
film like a lot of I would say, it's a lot of Cold War
32:15
in Vietnams double featurrey. Yeah, well, you know what, it would
32:19
be a great double feature. But what's interesting And I didn't know this until
32:23
I read a little bit about at this time, or if I knew it,
32:25
I forgot it. You know, you learned stuff and then you forget
32:29
it, and then you're like, did I know that? I don't know?
32:31
Um, Tristan, did you know that the release of this film was
32:36
delayed because of the Kennedy assassination? I did not know that until I did
32:39
more research on it. No, I didn't. I didn't. Yeah,
32:43
I don't know much about the behind the scenes of this movie. Well they
32:45
they did, in fact delay the release of the film because of the Kennedy
32:52
assassination, so that it was released in late January nineteen sixty four. And
32:58
the line we all love and they're going through the you know, survival kit
33:01
if they have to ditch the plane, and he says a fellow could have
33:06
a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff. The line, as
33:09
was originally recorded was Dallas. But because of the Kennedy assassination, somebody wisely
33:15
said, you know, we're gonna change that one. Seems a little touchy
33:21
at this point. Um So, but the original it you know, well
33:27
it does, it does. But the original reference uh um to Dallas apparently
33:32
survived in the um in the English audio of the French subtitled version that was
33:39
released, So they got every version but that one. So I guess they
33:44
figured the French didn't care quite as much about Kennedy getting shot, so that's
33:46
the only French they get it all the unrated cuts. I should fly to
33:53
France every time a movie is released that I want to see, so I
33:55
can see the really unadulterated you know, like Highland or the director's cut type
34:00
of stuff going on. I mean, come on, guys, so all
34:05
of this stuff put together, Darren. In terms of the musical choices,
34:10
the film ends very famously showing the apocalypse happening, and you know, you
34:17
hear an audio track of people singing, you know, you know I'll be
34:21
seeing you and yeah we'll meet again, Yeah, we'll meet again. I
34:24
don't know what. The original ending for this involved a pie fight in the
34:30
war room, oh man, which Kubrick deemed unusable because people were actually laughing
34:37
and having a good time during the pie fight, and the mood was that
34:43
doesn't seem like that would have been the best note. But I would be
34:46
the last one a little bit, because there was that huge buffet in the
34:51
war room that I always kind of felt like was kind of weird. But
34:53
if you now imagine them bringing out a course of pies that would lead to
34:59
a pie fight. Now I didn't Yeah, I didn't know that. I
35:01
didn't know about the pipe fight. I didn't know that Peter Sellers was meant
35:05
to play King Kong before now that that was his unofficial fourth role, which
35:13
again, I'm very glad he didn't because I don't think that was the right
35:16
role for him and he's got plenty of to do on his plate now.
35:20
But yeah, music wise, yeah, the well and then you have the
35:25
opening you know, the opening track, the end track, and yeah,
35:30
you just have this. I would say the music feels like a time capsule,
35:36
not the story, not the plot, but in a way, it
35:42
just makes me feel like this is a sixties movie. I don't know what
35:45
about it, Like obviously not that these movie you know tracks came out only
35:49
in the sixties or anything like that, but I think that it just has
35:53
the Yeah, it has that sense of you know, book ending this type
36:00
of story. I want to say something because when you talked about the pie
36:06
fight like that, that really that really struck a chord with me because you
36:10
know, like when you know it's absurd, it's crazy. I think it
36:15
totally could have fit in this film about like a bunch of politicians in the
36:21
war room where the world's about to be destroyed and so they're having a food
36:24
fight instead of doing what needs to be done. That in itself is a
36:30
comment and I think it would like I said, like, I think it
36:31
would fit in this film, but I'm glad that they didn't, because it
36:36
definitely, like you said, changes the tone and alters the tone where people
36:38
are having a good time in laughing as opposed to you know, explosions and
36:44
will meet again. There was one time I directed a one act and I
36:51
cannot, for the life of me remember the name of the one act,
36:54
but it's about a husband and wife fighting. Like they start off like really
37:00
really lovey dovey, and then like as the act goes on, they start
37:04
bringing out more and more crap about the relationship and they just start going at
37:07
each other's throats, and it ends with them kind of realizing that the relationship
37:14
is over and just kind of staring at the audience and then fade to black.
37:17
I wanted to end it's a comedy, and so I wanted to end
37:22
on a funny note, and so at the very end, like right before
37:27
the lights go out, like I have them jump each other's bones, like
37:32
just like start making out again. I thought it was hilarious, and my
37:37
producer at the time saw that and he said, he's like, that's not
37:42
in the script. I was like, yeah, but it's not not in
37:43
the script. It says, and he says, He's like, what tone
37:46
are you going for here? What do you want the audience to walk away
37:51
with? Do you want just a cheap laugh or do you want them to
37:54
actually think about what the characters just said? And that always stuck with me,
38:01
you know ever since Abdy's Young Man to today is that like, yeah,
38:05
you can get a reaction and it may even fit within your theme,
38:08
but you have to ask yourself what do you want the audience to walk away
38:13
with? At the very very end, And this kind of ending is exactly
38:19
how he should have ended it and not a pie in the face. Interesting.
38:22
I'm going to ask you a point blank question. Do you feel that
38:24
Doctor Strangelove lends itself to a sequel? No? Interesting because Kubrick did in
38:34
fact have a sequel in mind called Son of Strangelove, and even had in
38:39
his mind so far as to apparently openly be considering Terry Gilliam as the director
38:46
to inherit the Mantle and direct his follow up film, which would have been
38:52
set in underground bunkers where Doctor Strangelove had taken refuge with a large group of
38:58
women, asking you you're happy that it didn't end with a pie fight.
39:04
Are you happy that we never got that film? Yeah. I mean sometimes
39:07
things just need to be left alone. You know, it's fine not to
39:12
develop a franchise. Oh no, well you're not working in Hollywood anytime soon,
39:17
that's for sure. So Darren, just as a final thoughts sort of
39:22
thing, you know, as we're closing up. I mean, you know
39:25
that it's always a fun discussion to talk about Doctor Strangelove. This is this
39:30
is one of those amazing films that just everything seems to work and everything seems
39:36
to hit its mark. But the dreaded question, is there anything in this
39:42
film that you feel was indulgent that could have been cut? Or do you
39:47
think that there's anything that should have been developed more any trims at all?
39:52
It's only the main thing that comes to mind is I never really got the
40:00
the phone call getting changed out of the machine. I feel like that that
40:05
is a moment where the energy kind of just stopped, like like, yeah,
40:08
I get that. It's like, oh no, he needs to get
40:12
the information to the president. Let's throw these three curveballs at him. And
40:15
it's like, I get what you're doing, But I think they could have
40:20
not included any of that and maybe he had to walk like half a mile
40:22
to a phone booth because everything was cut off or something simpler. I don't
40:28
feel like that again, not that it's a bad scene. It just didn't
40:32
feel in time with how the movie was progressing at that moment, and I
40:37
think there was another way they probably could have done. Could have done that
40:43
or maybe even some of the parts with the Russian ambassador. I feel like
40:46
once he got in the room, they didn't know what to do with him.
40:51
Like it's funny when you know, Jersey Scott's like freaking out that he's
40:55
gonna get in there, But once he's in there, I mean, yeah,
40:58
they have a little bit of a scuffle. I don't know if it's
41:00
applied that he had like two cameras maybe, or if the general did plant
41:07
the other camera. It's trying to tug at this thread, but I don't
41:13
know. I felt like that you already have these two giant performances in that
41:19
room. There's really not room for anything else that's going on. So maybe
41:22
a little trimming with the Soviet and maybe kicking out the I mean, everyone
41:30
loves the Coca Cola company line. It's a funny line, but I don't
41:35
feel like that scene is necessary. Although now we're approaching like Disney Animated classic
41:40
length, so like for as far as time goes, this movie goes very
41:45
quickly. You know, I would I would not cut the Coca cola moment
41:54
because I think it's important to underscore that that soldier cares about Coca Cola is
42:00
private property in the face of armageddon, as if these are equally weighted concerns
42:06
in this moment. But what I probably would have cut was the Coca Cola
42:10
spraying in his face. That's where I feel like it's like, oh,
42:15
that that that's the part of the joke that goes a little far. But
42:21
that that that's the one energy moment that I would give. But what about
42:23
you, Tristan, what do you think needs to be cut or is this
42:28
something that where you wouldn't cut anything. I think I agree with both of
42:32
you where I would The Soviet wrestling and planting of the camera just kind of
42:37
makes my eyes roll a little bit. And I really like the Coca cola
42:43
joke because of what you just said, John, But the spraying in his
42:45
face as it goes a little bit too far. I think one thing that
42:49
I probably would change just a little bit. Is um Peter Sellers and Ripper
42:54
together, I feel like they're like I feel like Man Drake needed to have
43:02
a little bit more urgency and a little bit more frantic. I feel like
43:07
that's probably a Seller's performance that could have been dropped and gotten somebody else.
43:13
I'm not saying he did a bad job, but I just feel like that
43:15
character needs to be a little bit more frantic with Ripper, like he needs
43:19
to try and convince him more. Like there needed to be more of a
43:22
physical struggle, like there needed to be. It just felt like he was
43:27
going along with it too well and too much for Armageddon to be happening right
43:35
around the corner. So again, like I am nitpicking here, like with
43:40
the with the Soviet wrestle and with the coke in the face, Like I'm
43:44
very much nitpicking. Well, nitpicking is what you do when you have a
43:46
podcast and you're talking about film. So I'm not going to fault you for
43:50
it because we all do it from time to time. And I think I've
43:54
already said, you know, maybe you know the Coca Cola's squirting, I'd
43:59
cut that, And maybe there's one or two things I get what you're saying
44:01
with Man Drake's energy, and I think that that is probably just this weird
44:08
sort this is how the Brits are. It's almost like a parody of a
44:12
British person. Yeah, I feel like he wasn't British, he would be
44:15
more manic like. Yeah, I think it's supposed to be. It's supposed
44:20
you know, again, we're in the face of armageddi a lip carry on.
44:23
It's like, that's right, we're in the face of armageddon. But
44:28
that's no reason not to behave like a proper gentleman sort of thing. So
44:32
I have a feeling I know where this part of the show where we rate
44:37
things is going to go. But let's let's just go ahead and formalize it.
44:42
Darren. How many doomsday devices do you award, doctor Strange Love Well,
44:47
I'm supposed to tell you about the doomsday device. Oh, tell you
44:51
about the doomsay divice that we're going to announce it in two days. It
44:53
makes so much more sense because then you would have your doom day device.
44:58
I have mine. We're all equally assured destruction. Um, yes, I
45:02
gotta give it four. It's a it's a it's a fun movie highly rewatchable.
45:08
The performances are amazing Georgy Scott, Like if you think George Scott,
45:14
you know him from Christmas, Carol Patton and Doctor Strange Left, like obviously
45:21
more than that, but those are the big three, Like this is one
45:22
of his big three performances and he and it's funny, and it's funny.
45:28
I mean, I'm cracking up now thinking about the big board. You know,
45:30
he's gotta see the big But like every it's still funny even though it's
45:34
not that big of a joke because he delivers it with such seriousness, like
45:38
in the tone of his voice, like he goes up an octave, like
45:43
he's like, it's a big board right there. But it's like if he
45:46
could, he'd like start to draw the curtains across it, which obviously don't
45:51
exist. But um, it's also really funny watching this movie after having watched
45:55
War Games a couple of weeks ago, because there are some slight parrel little
46:00
between the two and a very very different tonal movie thum than this. Uh,
46:05
if Matthew Broderick snuck in there and saw the Big Board, I don't
46:07
think that would be good. But but no, I mean, yeah,
46:10
on our on our course through the sixties from Spartacus to now, it's he's
46:15
just getting better. Like we've said, we're really seeing kubrickness, like we
46:21
can start to taste it and define what that is. And let me just
46:24
tell you, we're gonna get a lot of that next week with two thousand
46:28
and one, a lot of very decided shots angles everything. It's gonna be
46:32
okay, Trists, it's gonna be okay. I'm giving it four four doomed
46:37
face, and personally, I look forward to Tristan's suffering next week. It's
46:40
going to give me life. As the kids say, Tristan, what do
46:45
you rate, Doctor Strangelove, I give it four hidden cameras like Darren,
46:51
like I um, I think this is a great film. It's iconic,
46:54
it's it is a part of our culture. It's a part of film culture.
46:58
You cannot call yourself a lover of film if you haven't seen this movie.
47:02
And George C. Scott is absolutely my favorite part of this film,
47:07
far and away the best part of the movie. And I just I lose
47:10
it, Like when he says, he's like, well, I don't think
47:14
it's quite fair to condemn a whole program because of a single slip up.
47:16
So let's slip up that's called the arm again, you know, like that's
47:22
it's just yeah, I think this is great. I like that it's black
47:25
and white because it kind of it brings out that even though it's in the
47:30
sixties, and I mean, Lolita was in black and white too, but
47:35
I feel like this movie needed to be black and white because it draws on
47:38
that negative nostalgia of the fifties, of the atomic panic and how I mean
47:46
it was alive and well in the sixties as well, but it was introduced
47:51
in the fifties really about like you know, like tucking under your desk and
47:54
everything like that. So there's so much about this movie that got right.
48:00
There's a few things that are I roll, the things that some things that
48:05
don't work, thumbs, things that could be trimmed down a little bit,
48:07
but overall, I mean four stars. I know that some people are probably
48:12
screaming and saying, no, this is a five star film, but for
48:15
me, four stars fantastic, one of the greats. I am internally screaming
48:22
but maintaining it because this is a solid five. This is a film that
48:25
I've loved since the first time I saw it. It is a film that
48:31
sticks with you. It is one of those things where again you can nitpick
48:35
and you can make sort of like technical and this could be tweaked, this
48:38
could be, but five stars doesn't mean you know that it's you know,
48:45
there won't be a truly, absolutely flawlessly perfect film until the Lord himself decides
48:51
to make one, basically, and so as far as human capability goes,
48:55
this is the summit. This is This is one of those ones where when
49:04
people talk about it in the conversation of we got to preserve it. It's
49:07
one of the greatest films of all time. You got to see it before
49:08
you die. I look at it and go, yep, that's true.
49:13
And it's for all of the reasons that they're naming, and so yeah,
49:15
that is a five doomsday devices from yours truly for Doctor Strangelove or How I
49:22
Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb, which of course tease us up
49:27
as Darren hinted previously, to the science fiction film that changed the trajectory of
49:36
science fiction for all time and is a touchstone film that nobody can stop talking
49:44
about and everybody listed as an inspiration as they went into the sci fi revival
49:50
of the nineteen seventies. Two thousand and one, A Space Odyssey, Join
49:58
the Revolution, Join the Nerd Party,