Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Nathan Jones: America Is In A 'Freefall,' But Prophecy Provides Hope

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Nathan Jones: America Is In A 'Freefall,' But Prophecy Provides Hope · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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  Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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  defending biblical Christianity.
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  No topic off limits.
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  And now, here's your host, David Fierazzo.
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  Hello, friends.
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  Welcome to World View Matters.
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  We appreciate you sharing the podcast, but most importantly, we appreciate your prayers
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  and support.
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  It's a great way to get to our guest today, Dr. Nathan Jones.
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  He serves as the Director of Internet Outreach and Evangelism at Lamb and Lion Ministries.
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  He's served the Ministry since, I don't know, probably decades ago, we'll get that exact
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  timeline when we get him on.
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  But he studied at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, received his masters at Liberty
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  University, earned his Doctor of Religious Studies at Trinity Theological Seminary, and
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  he is an ordained pastor, is married to Heather Jones, who also serves at Lamb and Lion
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  Ministries.
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  What a blessing.
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  Nathan, welcome to World View Matters.
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  Hey, David, great to be on again, brother.
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  Yeah, good to see you, brother.
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  Now, how long have you been with Lamb and Lion?
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  Or I know there's quite a few years there, right?
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  Well, you said decades.
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  I would have been pretty young, but 16 years.
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  That's true.
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  Okay, 16, so decade and a half, we're working.
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  We're getting to two decades.
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  But anyway, I'm so good to have you, brother.
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  I appreciate your ministry.
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  You've had one of my regular guests, the troublemaker for the Kingdom of God, J.B.
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  Hickson recently.
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  I love that show on technology.
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  Tell us before we talk about some events you have coming up.
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  Tell us about what you guys are doing in the book of Daniel.
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  Okay.
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  Well, our television program, Christen Prophecy, has been doing a five week deep dive into
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  the book of Daniel.
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  We've been teaching through it with the history and the, for filled prophecies, the yet
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  future prophecies and life application.
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  And folks can go to our website at christenproficie.org and go to Christen Prophecy Radio or television.
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  And we've got those programs there.
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  Awesome.
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  And I love your website.
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  You have so much, so many great resources and they can get lamplight or they can get
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  the newsletter and everything else.
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  But next, I wanted to ask you about an upcoming conference that you guys have.
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  I love the title of this because it's true nation in free fall Bible conference.
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  And I think it mentions Jack Hibbs, Mike Huckabee, tell us about that.
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  Well, every year our ministry hosts a big annual conference here in the Dallas area.
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  Of course, we live stream it too.
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  And we're going to focus because every election, every four years, it seems like Christians
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  forget there is a sovereign God and they look to human messiahs to rescue them.
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  And so we're going to do it.
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  We believe in, you know, Christians getting involved in politics, getting involved in action,
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  you know, being a light in this world, but we got to remind folks that, hey, we're citizens
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  of the kingdom that's yet to come.
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  And that's our home.
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  That's where our loyalty lies.
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  And to keep our focus on Jesus Christ, he's the only messiah we need.
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  There's got to be a parallel here somewhere in what happened when Jesus was on the earth
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  and the Jews.
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  A lot of people, not the Jews, but a lot of his followers tried to, they wanted to make
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  him king.
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  For a political savior, not not the spiritual messiah that would provide salvation for them,
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  but someone that would feed them and take care of them politically, right?
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  So there's got to be some parallel with what, you know, there's nothing new under the
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  sun, right?
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  No, no.
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  They wanted Jesus to defeat the Romans and set up his kingdom right then and there.
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  And Jesus was there to set up a spiritual kingdom.
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  That's what the church has been tasked to do as well.
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  And so again, as Christians, we get to keep our focus on Jesus Christ.
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  He will come.
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  He will return.
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  He will defeat evil.
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  And he will set up his kingdom on the earth.
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  Amen.
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  And it can't come soon enough for some of us.
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  You said something recently.
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  I don't remember where I read this.
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  Maybe in an email exchange we've had before the podcast, you said it seems like you've
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  been asked a lot lately to speak on the topic of, of heaven as far as, and as well as
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  what churches are missing out on by not teaching Bible prophecy.
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  Talk a little bit about that because I think we're going through some really rough times
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  in America and around the world, especially since 2020.
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  And a lot of people maybe are confused and a lot of people are maybe more fearful than
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  they were in the past.
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  So more people maybe are looking to heaven or for something like that.
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  Your thoughts?
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  Yes.
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  Well, we got to remember that the glory of Lord is our strength, but we're weak.
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  We're human.
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  We're looking around.
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  I think you're right.
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  Since the pandemic, Christians are scared.
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  They're scared of seeing our country unravel around us as the world becomes more globalistic
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  as I could go on and on about the corruption in society, the apostasy in the church.
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  So yeah, we believe that folks are kind of taking their mind off the goal.
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  You know, when you get in a car and you drive somewhere, you have a destination in mind.
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  And for our believers in Christ, that's heaven.
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  And so we wanted to, it just seems that people's focus now has become, hey, let's talk about
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  heaven and what's going on the world and people who weren't interested in prophecy.
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  And that's many, all of a sudden seem to have an interest in prophecy, especially since
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  October 7th and the invasion of Hamas and to Israel.
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  So yeah, I'd say those two topics are what Lamb and Lion Ministries has been covering
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  most over the last few months.
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  We're heaven focused and we're dealing with earthly, bound issues by pointing people
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  to God's prophetic word.
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  Amen.
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  Amen.
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  We are here as ambassadors of Christ and we are ministers of reconciliation.
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  We do have work to do while we're here, but we have a dual citizenship, citizens of heaven
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  and temporary citizens of earth and the United States.
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  You brought up October 7th and I wanted to ask you something about that and about what
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  happened.
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  I'm Jan Markelle.
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  I had her on a couple months ago and I remember her words.
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  She says it seemed like demons were unleashed when that happened.
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  Now we've always known there's been spiritual warfare.
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  We've known it's a lot has been manifesting in the natural and there's always been these
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  battles, but it seems like that took evil to another level.
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  And I wanted to ask you, do you think the Hamas attack against Israel and the current
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  war might be waking up more people and maybe either in the church, Christians giving more
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  of an interest in Bible prophecy and the unchurched going, wow, what's going on here?
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  Maybe more might be turning to God or open to Jesus or spiritual things.
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  What do you think?
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  Well, I think what we've seen primarily is a revolution in Israel.
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  I mean, we were seeing Israel almost on the verge of a political civil war, 85% or 80
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  85% I've read of Jewish people in Israel are secular humanists.
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  And there has been a great awakening pointing them to there is a God.
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  I mean, the dependency on God has grown our contacts in Israel have been saying that there's
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  a spiritual revival going on in Israel right now.
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  And we know when we read Ezekiel 38 and 39, when Russia leads a Islamic evasion against
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  Israel, one day when God supernaturally steps in and destroys those invaders, it says
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  that all the Jewish people, the world will return to Israel and they will know God.
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  So I think this is a foretaste of what's to come.
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  Now for the church who primarily is asleep when it comes to prophecy, they're so concerned
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  in the here and now, I've seen quite an awakening of interest in what God's got planned.
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  Lots of people writing in, where does Israel fit into Bible prophecy?
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  We're hearing that.
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  As for the unchurched David, I don't know.
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  If you tell me you interview a lot more people than I do in the secular realm and I haven't
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  seen much of an interest, more of the confusion that they're supporting the Palestinians after
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  they butchered 1300 Jewish people more so than they understand what the purpose of Israel
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  is.
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  Yeah.
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  Let's talk about that for a minute because that's good marketing.
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  What I mean, good marketing.
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  I mean, the marketing of evil.
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  When you see what happened on our college campuses in America and the support for Hamas,
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  these people obviously don't have a biblical worldview, obviously, but to get them to believe
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  that somehow they should support Hamas and this confusion that Israel, they're just occupiers.
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  And when you look at the land over there, the little blip that's the size of New Jersey,
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  that Israel, they look at the surrounding coalition of Muslim and nations, Islamic nations
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  and dictatorships around them, you're thinking, okay, they are some of the worst occupiers.
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  They are colonial, whatever.
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  It's just been really interesting to try to watch this and go, okay, who's going to reach
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  these people?
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  For example, Nathan, what are your thoughts?
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  Now we're talking about people that are on college campuses, not Christians, not the church,
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  but people that maybe have blind support for something they don't really understand.
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  They don't understand from the biblical worldview, prophetically, obviously, but they've just
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  been told K through 12, maybe when they get to the university level, they've been sold
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  a narrative or they believe certain talking points.
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  So how do you get through to these people?
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  How do you get through to them?
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  Well, we produce a lot of videos and teaching material.
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  I see Prager used on a lot of videos as of late short videos, try to help explain what's
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  going on.
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  When people write us angry for our position in support of Israel, we can reply back with,
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  hey, this is the history.
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  Israel is there legally, according to UN, since 1947, there are legal nations since 1948.
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  The land has been theirs for 3,000 years.
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  The Palestinian people didn't exist until Yasser Arafat.
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  And when you start explain the fact that the gossens are actually prisoners of Hamas,
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  the terrorist group, getting rid of Hamas frees the gossens, it really opens their eyes.
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  So it's an information campaign and so as ministries, we try to reach out and give people
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  the biblical information, the historical and political information, it's correct to help
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  people out of their, unfortunately, indoctrination, like you said, the ignorance that they've been
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  put under.
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  That's right.
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  So it's not only the biblical history, but world history, which there's a lot of that
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  in the Bible as well.
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  So they just don't know.
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  They have not been taught to think critically.
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  So they've just accepted what they've heard.
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  And then when they hear things like that, I bet at first they have a hard time believing
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  it, but thank God for what you guys do, what Prager does and so many others.
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  You wrote, we're changing topics here a little bit, you wrote the, the four word for a book
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  called Hereafter.
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  And it was put out by Terry James, Jonathan Brentner, we've had him on the podcast.
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  I've spoken with Terry James.
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  Love those guys.
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  I know.
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  Great writing.
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  Terry's encouraging and uplifting and tell us about your surprising encounter.
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  I found it to be fascinating when you went just simply to get a haircut.
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  You thought you were just going to go get a haircut and then something else happened.
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  There was a God opportunity.
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  Tell us about that, Nathan.
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  Well, I've been sitting on that story for so many years and I wanted to share it when
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  Terry approached me about writing the four words of the book about heaven.
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  I'm like, this is a story that I've been dying to tell for a long time.
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  It was many years ago.
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  I went to a barber shop, a very manly one, you know, where only men go and their man cubs
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  go and all of a sudden my barber, I realized, wasn't a man.
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  It was a woman, a very butch woman.
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  And you know, we're, it was a little surprising, but we, we talked a bit and finally says,
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  well, what do you do for a living again?
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  I said, I kind of realized what she was.
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  I was like, well, I'm in ministry.
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  She spins me around in the chair and looks at me and says, well, do you think people
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  like me will go to heaven, indicating of course that she was a lesbian.
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  And so here was, it was an opportunity to share the gospel with her.
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  So I was sharing about what, what heaven will be like and what the requirements to get
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  in that you have to be a born again believer in Jesus Christ and be saved and cleansed of
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  your sins.
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  So that you become a citizen of the kingdom and we got into this wrapped conversation and
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  all the sudden we looked around and realized that everybody in the barber shop had
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  were silent.
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  They were all listening in and unfortunately, her shields went back up and it was like
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  everybody was kind of shocked and everybody was done with their haircut all at once.
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  They, it was like a mad stampede to get out of the building and they were pretty much
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  done with me.
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  I paid my bill and I kind of waited around hoping that maybe the barbers would want to
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  keep talking, but they all congregate in front of the TV like they needed something to
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  distract them.
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  And I left and it was like the weirdest, the weirdest gospel sharing experience, a evangelist
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  experience of my life that people were so wrapped with it, but when it came finally to
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  committing to it, to giving up, you know, surrendering their lives to Jesus Christ, nobody
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  was willing.
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  And so I think if we have a better understanding that her after and what's required of it,
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  salvation, then it's a very important book that I think here after that, that, that
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  Boterian Jonathan wrote, so I highly recommend it.
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  Amen, brother.
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  Thank you.
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  One thing in that exchange that she said after she said, do you think I'll be going to
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  heaven?
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  She said, after all, I hear God's not too keen on people like me.
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  Now that's a perception.
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  They think, you know, they just hear judgment from some people, but God is so much more
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  than that, but they forget that sin is sin.
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  And we deal with sin, whether that be adultery, pornography, profanity, whatever, taking
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  God's name is vain.
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  There's so many others.
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  And I know you went through, you know, are you a good person, the good person test with
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  her?
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  But that's what you have to do.
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  So it's using opportunities like that.
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  Who knows where she's at today, but we have to take a brief break.
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  We're with Nathan Jones from Christian prophecy, Lamb and Lion Ministries.
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  When we come back, this same talk, we're going to stand this topic because we're going
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  to answer the questions.
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  Should Christians attend LGBTQ weddings?
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  And there's a great article that Jason Yemenis, another one of our guests, wrote quite a
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  while back in the Washington Times about Alistair Begg's comments on this.
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  And so we're going to talk with Nathan about that in just a minute on World View Matters.
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• 14:28
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• 14:54
  to you.
• 14:55
  That event that we talked about earlier, the conference that Nathan mentioned at the beginning,
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  Nation in Freefall Bible Conference, it's June 14th, I don't just want to mention Jack
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  Hibbs, Mike Huckabee, you can get information at christinproficy.org under events.
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  So Alistair Begg came out recently within the last couple of months and he was giving
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  advice to apparently a grandmother, a woman, whether she should attend an LGBT wedding.
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  And Jason's article is entitled a compassionate response to Alistair Begg's bad advice on
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  LGBT weddings.
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  And the question is Nathan Jones should Christians attend an LGBT wedding and what message
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  is that send?
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  We can all quote Jason a little bit what he shares, but just right off the top, I'm sure
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  you've had this question, I'm sure you've had to answer it.
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  And just what do you tell people?
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  It's interesting.
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  I don't know if you're at the National Religious Broadcasters Convention in February, but
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  I got back from it and that was all the talk.
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  And since we were there to promote our new christinproficy radio program, Alistair Begg's
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  spot on a quite a number of networks opened up and we slid right into it.
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  So we went from zero to 700 radio networks in just one week.
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  Wow.
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  You know, I don't want to profit off of Alistair's, I don't want to call it a mistake.
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  I mean, it's something that he believes that I give him that, but as Christians were
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  supposed to stand up for the truth, the biblical truth, we love sinners, we hate the sin.
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  And so to go to a gay wedding, and this is what I tell people that write in, to go to
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  a transgender wedding, even if it's in the family.
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  And I do have family members who are of that persuasion.
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  I have a cousin who actually has turned Islamic so she could marry a Muslim.
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  What do you say?
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  You say, well, I love you, I pray for you.
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  But by going, I'm supporting your sin.
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  And I just can't do that.
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  I love you too much.
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  And I think that's the position that Christians should hold.
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  Again, I'd say it's between each person and the Holy Spirit, but if you're solely going
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  from a biblical position, Christians should never stand for evil.
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  And Jason starts off by saying about Alistair Begg.
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  He calls his advice troubling, and we'll talk a little bit more about that, but he says,
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  I want to express my deep appreciation for him, for his humble and thought-provoking teaching
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  his biblical stand.
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  And he said, he has significantly nurtured my faith and my pastoral skills.
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  And I want to go back to the advice, Nathan, because he said, Alistair Begg said, well,
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  here's the thing, your love for them may catch them off guard, but your absence from the
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  same sex ceremony, your absence will simply reinforce the fact that they said these people
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  are what I always thought, judgmental, critical, and it goes on.
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  So what he's saying, Alistair Begg was apparently saying, and he does not believe in that he believes
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  his homosexuality is a sin, does not believe in the same sex ceremonies, but he's giving
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  this woman advice, yes, you should go even get him a gift, I think I read that in there too.
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  But here's the thing, your love for them may catch them off guard.
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  And Jason makes the point, he's pointing to Ephesians 5-11 to not participate in the unfruitful
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  deeds of darkness, but expose them.
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  So there's a balance there.
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  And I think well-meaning Christians, people dealt with this, almost everybody knows someone
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  who is LGBTQ, these days, unfortunately, or at least confused or thinks they are.
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  So Nathan, this is a very common problem, but it sends the wrong message.
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  And that was the point that Jason was making use to compromise.
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  And it sends a message that you endorse the ceremony, your thoughts.
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  Well, I agree with you, but Alistair Begg has been a teacher, a very devout teacher for
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  many years, highly esteemed him.
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  This is a subject that we see the church struggling with more and more.
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  I don't know about you David, I didn't think of transgenderism even five years ago.
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  Now all of a sudden it's a big issue.
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  Even 20 years ago, homosexuality and gay marriages wasn't something you had to consider.
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  Now every single Christian is finding someone in their family or a miracle of friends where
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  this is challenging them.
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  So we're trying to work through it, but we don't work through it based on what we feel.
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  We base it on the word of God.
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  And like you said, Romans teaches that all sin and fall short of glory of God.
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  So we are all sinners that is true.
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  But living in a lifestyle of sin against God is killing these people.
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  It's sending them to hell.
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  And why would we want to endorse that?
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  It's like someone say, well, you shouldn't share the gospel with people because it makes
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  God seem judgmental and it's hurtful.
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  Let just God deal with them, but isn't by depriving them of salvation, sending them to hell.
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  So why would we want to endorse that?
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  So I agree with you in that statement is that we need to make a stand.
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  We're showing love, tough love in some respects by not attending.
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  And I want to be fair, Alistair Begg dig and say apparently this was a year and a half
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  ago.
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  And on Romans one, he did say we are not at liberty to rewrite the Bible to accommodate
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  Godless perspectives on abortion, euthanasia, same sex marriage on transgenderism and more.
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  So to give him credit, that's what he preached, which is great.
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  But this advice was troubling because as Jason Jimenez says, what exactly is being celebrated
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  at a LGBT at a same sex wedding?
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  And he says, a couple's sexuality, a gay couple's sexuality, not biblical sexuality.
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  And he says a trans person with what if it's a trans person, well, they're believing
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  that there are different gender than what God gave them, how God created them.
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  So there's a form of rebellion that a Christian, well, meaning wanting to be loving and compassionate
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  goes to this service or the ceremony and says, you know, trying to support them, but it
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  sends a wrong message.
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  So you can be loving and you can still tell them the truth, but sometimes Nathan, I know
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  we see it in this day and age, it's a fine line to walk sometimes.
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  And you can communicate something as loving and soft as compassionate as you want, but
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  people will still take it truth divides and offends, doesn't it?
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  And the gospel is offensive.
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  I was just going to say that Jesus said that he would divide families apart and why?
• 21:47
  Because you have to make a stand for the truth.
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  And unfortunately, we are seeing families divided over this more and more so as we get closer
• 21:54
  to his return.
• 21:55
  And we will.
• 21:56
  We'll see this more and more because unfortunately since the Supreme Court weighed in in 2015
• 22:01
  since we're seeing just how America is just really morphed in that direction, supporting
• 22:07
  even now.
• 22:08
  Did you ever, let me ask you this, did you ever think that even our medical establishment
• 22:13
  in America, not all in the medical profession, but they would be supportive of doing surgeries
• 22:20
  on minors who think they are the opposite sex, gender affirming care.
• 22:25
  And you got to put that in my opinion.
• 22:27
  You have to put those words in air quotes because you can't re, re assign what God designed.
• 22:37
  But our culture would tell you different and even the medical profession, did you ever
• 22:41
  think, Nathan Jones, that we'd be in this place where even in the medical profession,
• 22:46
  they're supposed to use science and knowledge and their, their understanding of the Bible,
• 22:51
  right?
• 22:52
  And human, not the Bible, but the medical manuals and the human body.
• 22:55
  But yet, there are some children's hospitals that are doing these surgeries and you're
• 23:00
  kind of going, wow, is this a delusion or what are your thoughts on that?
• 23:04
  Well, it reminds me of the verse about the hardest deceptively evil.
• 23:08
  We will deceive ourselves even when our brains know better.
• 23:11
  My wife and I went to Bozeman, Montana.
• 23:13
  We'd always wanted to go to Montana last year and we're walking around the town, town
• 23:17
  area.
• 23:18
  That was surprised how many transgender people there were, how many with the dyed hair,
• 23:24
  tacks and, you know, the lesbianism and homosexuality, I thought, Montana, you know, it shouldn't
• 23:29
  be a pretty straight state, you know.
• 23:32
  My wife said something that really opened up my eyes to understanding.
• 23:35
  So do you remember back in the 80s when we were kids, it was the hair metal band.
• 23:39
  That was the rebellious area there.
• 23:41
  In the 60s, it was the hippies and the 90s, it was in the grunge.
• 23:46
  This generation, it's now transgenderism.
• 23:49
  Every generation seeks to rebel against God.
• 23:51
  They just pick a particular sin and run with it.
• 23:54
  Now it seems obviously going downhill and getting worse and worse, what sins there are,
• 23:58
  but it really opened up my eyes to the fact that this is a rebellion against God.
• 24:02
  These are people that need to know the truth and so be saved.
• 24:06
  And let's, I want to mention one of the scriptures that Jason mentioned in his article, just
• 24:10
  to reinforce what we're talking about.
• 24:12
  Hebrews 13, 4, he quoted it, which says, let marriage be held in honor among all and let
• 24:19
  the marriage bed be undefiled for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.
• 24:26
  So we're not just talking about one sin of homosexuality.
• 24:30
  We're talking about adultery, any fornication, anything outside of the biblical parameters
• 24:36
  for sex.
• 24:37
  And God designed sex, God said, be fruitful and multiply.
• 24:41
  So we have to keep everything in perspective.
• 24:43
  So Nathan, going back to your website and just looking, there's so many great things.
• 24:48
  One of the things that in a newsletter that Dr. David Reagan put out at the end of January,
• 24:53
  I'd love for you to touch on this in the last couple of minutes we have left.
• 24:56
  But I know the answer, I think you can maybe condense it for us.
• 24:59
  Our churches hurting themselves by dismissing Bible prophecy because we know that just
• 25:06
  a fraction of churches today actually teach the whole Council of God, especially prophecy.
• 25:12
  Yes, they are absolutely because look at Revelation 13, which promises a blessing
• 25:18
  if you hear and take to heart the prophecies written in the book of Revelation.
• 25:22
  The Lord wants us to know that he wins in the end.
• 25:26
  And why would pastors be afraid of that?
• 25:29
  I mean, it gives us the hope for living today.
• 25:32
  Dr. Reagan wrote a great article.
• 25:33
  He talked about the quantity, how a third of the Bible's prophetic, how the Bible's the
• 25:37
  only book in the world that contains fulfillable prophecies that fulfilled prophecy validates
• 25:44
  the scripture as the inspired world of God, it inspires Jesus as the Savior, it validates
• 25:49
  him.
• 25:50
  It reveals the future and many other points that he brought out show that Bible prophecy
• 25:55
  is extremely important for us.
• 25:57
  And I would just encourage pastors, hey, if you don't feel comfortable teaching prophecy,
• 26:02
  that's what ministries like Lamb and Lion are for.
• 26:05
  We're call us.
• 26:06
  We'd be glad to come out and share God's prophetic word with your congregation.
• 26:10
  Amen, brother.
• 26:11
  I'm sure that's going to be some of the topics on the upcoming conference in June, right?
• 26:16
  The people can live stream.
• 26:17
  So look that up at christinproficie.org.
• 26:21
  Was it in one of your recent programs?
• 26:23
  I don't remember.
• 26:24
  I think it was Dr. Reagan that said, quoted pastor Adrian Rogers that said the world is
• 26:30
  getting gloriously dark and you're thinking, how is that a good thing?
• 26:34
  But if you're a believer in Christ and you understand the future, you have a grasp
• 26:39
  of Bible prophecy.
• 26:41
  I mean, it's supposed, it's supposed to go this way, but we can look and be optimistic
• 26:46
  and say, yes, that's God is sovereign.
• 26:49
  And we can really take heart that things are getting darker, but we are, we have the
• 26:54
  light of Christ in us.
• 26:55
  I mean, was that you or was that Dr. Reagan that said that quoted Adrian Rogers?
• 27:00
  Oh, all three of us Tim Moore as well like to quote that because it's true.
• 27:03
  As the world is falling apart, it's transitioning to the kingdom of Christ.
• 27:07
  We're in that transition time period.
• 27:10
  This world is passing.
• 27:11
  The new world is coming.
• 27:13
  So in effect, yes, the world is getting gloriously dark.
• 27:17
  Boy, we're getting close.
• 27:18
  Aren't we?
• 27:19
  Praise God.
• 27:20
  Yeah.
• 27:21
  And he will be returning soon.
• 27:22
  Our blessed hope.
• 27:23
  Nathan Jones, thank you so much for your time today, brother.
• 27:26
  Lord willing, we'll do it again in the near future.
• 27:28
  Amen.
• 27:29
  Thank you, David.
• 27:30
  You bet.
• 27:31
  All right, guys.
• 27:32
  Again, christinproficie.org.
• 27:33
  I say great resources there and awesome programs.
• 27:36
  Good to hear their radio show is on more stations now.
• 27:41
  Praise God.
• 27:42
  So thank you guys for supporting the show.
• 27:43
  God bless you.
• 27:44
  And as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.