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Building a Podcast that Lasts: World Podcast Network Founder Bruce Chamoff on Discoverability and... · Your Mic

• 0:00
  This episode of your mic is brought to you by SpeakFest 2025 night of the living pod
• 0:05
  It is equal parts personal development networking. We're gonna have keynotes
• 0:09
  We're gonna have workshops panels and so much more
• 0:13
  It's presented by an at the National Museum of funeral history on October 10th and 11th
• 0:19
  Buy your tickets now at speakpodcasting.com slash speakfest 2025 and speak enough
• 0:26
  This episode features one of our workshop hosts. It is Bruce Shama founder of world podcast network
• 0:34
  Bruce is a true OG in the podcasting space. He's got over 1200 shows in his portfolio and
• 0:41
  During this conversation we're gonna dive into the evolution of podcasting from the early days of audio only
• 0:47
  To today's video first world. We're gonna unpack the real power of having an RSS feed and so much more
• 0:55
  And if you enjoy this episode as much as I did putting it together for you
• 0:58
  Please consider sharing with the host in your life and
• 1:01
  Subscribing to your mic wherever you get your favorite podcasts
• 1:09
  So you've been at this since 2006 with the world podcast network over 1200 shows in your portfolio
• 1:16
  Talk about what it was like back then. I was on the radio back then versus
• 1:21
  What it's like for you now? I you've seen so many changes. What has been your most favorite least favorite?
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  That's a good question. I'm podcasting hasn't really changed in 20 years. It's
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  Other than the popularity that people getting into it. I think that
• 1:40
  The pandemic has created more podcasters because of the opportunities people couldn't leave their homes
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  But it was always and actually this more video now than there was back in 2005 when I first started my podcast
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  It was mostly just audio
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  I don't even remember when YouTube launched and I think if I'm if my facts are correct
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  YouTube was launched in 2007
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  So you know
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  Yeah, there were no video podcasts back then. So I think that's the really and that's what changed
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  To get the great things is that people can now
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  Take a YouTube channel and create an entire podcast out of it and YouTube itself has caught on and now allows you to upload at
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  podcast episode in addition to just a regular video
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  And I think that really has changed but other than that
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  It hasn't changed. I would say probably the least
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  Thing that I like is that podcasters
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  No longer like they did 20 years ago are blogging
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  About their episodes and the reason why I say that is because
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  Other than the audio search engines, there's no content
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  For a Google to end I now chat to gbt to index. So
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  When I tell podcasters when I'm advising them is you have anchor you have bus sprout lips and max out
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  Your number of characters because Google is going to see that and if you want to get followers
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  You need search engine content now you need AI search content
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  So you know if you're going to just put a little blurb about your episode you're not going to get anywhere and
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  That's what I think podcasters should be doing and that would make it better
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  It seems like it would also be a lot
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  simpler
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  I don't like the word easy because nothing easy is in life
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  But it seems like it would be a lot simpler with the advent of all these AI tools as well
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  So if you have an indie podcaster who is using their show as an extension of their business
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  And they're super busy you and I were talking about how insane it can
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  Schedules can be that if you got somebody who doesn't have someone to help them
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  They can pop it into a tool like we're right now. We're using Riverside. They have their show feature
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  You can pop it into chat gbt or perplexity and ask it for 500 word blog
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  And to your point that 500 blog 500 word blog as show notes in quotes
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  Yeah, would be more likely to get your your show into the search engine
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  I'm actually finding that that's not exactly the case. Oh, okay. I just found
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  What happened was we added a podcast this week and
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  We tried to rewrite the Apple podcast description
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  We wanted to make it our own
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  So I've been using chat gbt the rewrite the descriptions for the last six months
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  And as of this week. I'm not doing it anymore
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  They there are so many grammar and spelling errors on chat gbt
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  true
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  And I really thought that with the advancements of AI
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  You would you would get none, you know, it would be perfect, but it's not so
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  I am kind of on offense about telling podcasters to use these AI tools. I mean
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  my advice is start
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  With AI, but don't end with AI and I think a lot of people are giving that advice
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  Right there things that you want to correct. I mean it could if it was me doing if if it was me doing what you're talking about
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  With this interview it would have your last name
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  spelled with an s instead of a c
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  And then Bruce would probably be like with two ease and in a random space
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  So it would have the first two correct and then you know, yeah, so I mean it requires that helping hand the human helping hand
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  To break things up as well. I mean there are tools that can help and you could always reiterate and reiterate
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  But then at that point if you if you're working 30 minutes on a single show description
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  Might as well write the damn thing yourself
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  Oh, I agree with you. I think that AI
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  I mean anybody will probably agree with this the biggest advantage of using AI is the save time right
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  But but your creativity gets taken away
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  You know, you're not yourself anymore
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  um, I don't know if you know like what fibers doing now so fiber.com they now launched
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  Four months ago. They launched the personal assistant is called fiber go
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  And they're trying to perfect it to sound like a human being
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  They still have a long way to go but what fiber was doing was they were watching when everybody was all the sellers were typing
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  And adopting the AI model was adopting the style of how every seller types to their to their customers
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  Which I think is incredible. We didn't know this was happening. I mean, I do stuff on fiber and
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  Nobody knew this was happening until they revealed it in the middle of um, I think the well beginning of this year
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  and
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  Yeah, I mean I try to use it. I'm still on the fence about that
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  But if you don't have the time to respond to a buyer on fiber
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  The AI will take if you activate it it will take over and talk for you which is fine
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  And it helps you with your response rate because fiber requires a 24 hour response rate if you don't
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  Respond to a new buyer within 24 hours. They penalize you
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  So the AI now helps you with that, but I don't like what is saying
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  Speaking on your behalf and is speaking stuff that you don't improve exactly
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  Exactly, I mean it's it's smart
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  It kind of see it doesn't really write in my style, but it uses the words that I've been using
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  So it's not it's it's kind of intuitive, but you still need that human part of it. I think podcasters
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  I understand I get it that the show notes
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  Can be done with AI, but I really think that they need to take the time
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  To edit when AI is is writing for them
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  It's very important because you have to make sure that there are no spelling errors and I found it out there
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  Actually, I found this out the hard way
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  Twice already in the last month and once was okay
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  I thought once was just kind of a minor glitch now it happened twice and that is the red flag right there
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  You know when it happens more than once you know
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  So you as a podcaster do have to see what
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  The AI is writing
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  And if you don't then you might end up looking at professional here and I hate to say that that's truth
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  So you know, that's that's my advice
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  What is interesting to me is when we when we first met we had our first chat is that you come from
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  You come from this as a developer web developer yeah, so you've got such a unique blend of of skills
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  And attributes that you're bringing to the podcast game. Yeah, so I'd love to know what it is that's your favorite part about blending
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  podcasting which is
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  creative and then web development which is I would say also creative
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  Also more technical
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  Okay, I can talk about that, but I want to make sure I stay as little
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  Technically as possible, right?
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  I don't want to lose people when they hear it. I won't say that probably the most
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  Technical part of podcasting and blogging actually is the rss feed
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  And I do want to say in a non-technical way that rss feeds are probably the least
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  understood
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  Part of any podcast, but the most powerful marketing tool out there
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  Okay, I have a 20 minute video on how
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  Why rss feeds are so
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  So powerful and a lot of people don't understand what they use them for
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  Why they have them, but when you think about every single podcast streaming platform offers an rss feed
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  That has to be a sign that it's a good thing
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  And we have people signing up for the world podcast network that don't they put this street address where it says rss feed
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  Okay, and I don't know if that's like being filled in by Google, but
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  It's it's amazing because what it does and I explain it like this
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  rss feed stands for really simple syndication. Okay, syndication is exactly what this what the important part of it is
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  It's like a television show
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  Okay, when let like I always explain sidefeld, okay, so we take sidefeld from the 90s. It was on NBC
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  Okay, before went off the air
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  People can get it on NBC and only new episodes at that time now you can get sidefeld on netflix
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  Okay, at one point you got it on holo. Well, what's Netflix really doing? Okay, you know, we're in 2025 now
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  Netflix is doing nothing other than syndicating sidefeld and syndication really means taking your content from the original
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  Point place and putting it somewhere else and I think that's amazing right so podcasters can use this
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  To their advantage right you have an rss feed a website onus says look I really like your podcast
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  I want to put your episodes on my website
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  Can you send me the mp30s? Can you send me the information?
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  Yes, I can do that as a podcaster or I can give you my rss feed
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  The rss feed will handle all that it has the mp30 which they call in enclosure
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  It has a description has a title and I can take my rss feed from my podcast your podcast anybody's podcast and give it out to anybody
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  Okay, and they if they have an rss feed reader on their
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  On their website. That's it your podcast is
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  syndicated and you don't have to do anything else. It's it's
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  Autopilot right you come out with a new episode five months from now. It's going to be on that website that's using rss feed to me
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  That is the most powerful thing about podcasting
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  um on the technical sense and
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  For people that don't know web design that's okay. Just need the address. So
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  um, the surprising thing about apple is that everybody thinks that apple is hosting your podcast
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  They are not all they're doing is
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  Hoking in your rss feed
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  Right, so that kind of should tell podcasters how powerful this is without the rss feed you can't get on the apple
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  right spotify host it right because they used to be anchored so
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  anchor spotify same company now, but
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  I think iheart radio also they use your rss feed. Yes, so to me that is the most important thing as far as a
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  web development point of view. I just love creating new features, right?
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  I love envisioning it and putting it out there and seeing it as six against the wall
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  um, I think i've done some pretty cool things with the world podcast network like i built a portal
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  So podcasters were coming to us saying can you change this description? Can you
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  Add this social media? I decided i'm just going to build a portal where they log in and they do it themselves
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  So to me that's kind of the biggest accomplishment. I've had with that and um, you know, I hope that answers the question
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  I love that breakdown
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  and it is
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  I've never heard someone describe an rss feed in such a passion way and also in such a thorough way
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  Thank you. That's great. Yeah, when when people ask me
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  The the most simple way for me to explain it is well, it's like your podcast's social security number
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  And you need this to be able to get on good idea all the podcast networks and
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  And i mean it works works for me, but i love the breakdown because it really
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  encapsulates what a podcast is and the benefits of having one
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  Because if you don't have one you don't have a podcast
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  But yeah, yeah, uh and and also how you broke things down with with apple and spotify too because they they're not your host
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  For my clients
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  Omni studio is the is their host oh, okay, so or you know if it's someone else
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  Buzzsprout would be their host or lip center whatnot and they get they give the
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  You they syndicate through apple and spotify
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  Who are also by the way not the largest podcasts
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  Perhaps but whatever, but i think it i think it behooves it behooves a podcaster to know
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  That yes apple and spotify and even you two who's the largest podcast app
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  It it it's important to have them to have them on these apps also
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  Take the rss feed and with your with how you beautifully gave that rundown
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  Yeah, you can syndicate on somebody's website. So if you are
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  Let's just let's say if you're an it director and someone with a huge
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  Following has a website with
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  Hundreds of thousands of hits. They want Bruce's podcast. Oh, yeah here
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  It's my rss feed
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  boom liquidy split. It's done and back in the day
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  80s 90s to
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  If you were to try and draw some kind of parallel
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  All right, well, here's my briefcase. I got my files and here's a whole like a hundred page rundown of all of my shows
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  Yeah, but now that's true
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  Now all you do is send the email a link and yep, there's the other speed
• 16:29
  Yeah, you know, I believe you know you mentioned Facebook and of course social media in general. I believe that
• 16:34
  Facebook well Facebook used to allow developers to build apps on top of their platform. I don't see that anymore, but
• 16:44
  Uh, remember like when people were coming out with all the Facebook games and there were a lot of
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  RSS feed readers in the Facebook apps now I believe if you were the post your podcast in at your newsfeed in
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  Facebook or you have a Facebook page for your podcast
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  You posted rss feed and it should spin out. I think it spits out like your last three episodes
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  So to me, that's incredible
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  Really, I've never
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  Yeah, I'd try that today. Yeah, I try it today. I mean, I'm sure people here in this on your podcast
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  They'll probably do it the same thing and I don't know if Facebook's still doing it because I believe that
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  Like what they did is kind of like like the birthday feed like today's your birthday
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  And people are going on your your newsfeed saying how you birthday have a birthday and my birthday was
• 17:37
  Two weeks ago. So they go on your birthday
• 17:40
  You're sorry your Facebook and he say you know having birthday Bruce
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  When you log in to Facebook the next day they have all the birthdays in like a little encapsulated frame
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  Right and it only shows the last three
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  Uh post that people with you have a birthday and it says click here for more birthday wishes, right? I believe
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  The rss feed works the same way
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  So, you know, you can try that
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  Give it a shot
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  Talk about your podcasts. What's your favorite thing about hosting your show helping podcasters succeed
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  And that's the name of the show become a successful podcaster his name of the show
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  I have my lovely co-sharing right over to my right
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  I love helping podcasters
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  As the owner of a large podcast network. I get questions in people people want
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  You know, they hire me for
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  advice consultation
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  You're in the same way you have a podcast just like mine. So you probably get questions like I do and you and I probably overlap in the very very much
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  So we probably deal with the same type of people you and me which is great. We have a lot common that way
• 18:53
  And we both love to help podcasters. So
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  I
• 18:58
  Like to make an episode off of the common questions I get
• 19:03
  And you see a lot of those you can go to Reddit and you can see those as well. You go to cure. I see those questions
• 19:09
  A big question is
• 19:11
  You know, what kind of microphone do I use?
• 19:15
  I don't have a lot of money. How can I do for free or how you know if I buy a cheap microphone that type of thing
• 19:22
  Which I always tell people do not podcast with a cheap microphone
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  And don't I mean, I have episodes for all this
• 19:29
  How do I market my podcast? What's the best social network is Facebook or TikTok? Whatever, you know
• 19:37
  And I just
• 19:38
  Whatever people ask me. I mean just just last week. I had a consultation with a podcast. I never thought I would actually hear
• 19:47
  It's a unique title called the Bitcoin lawyer
• 19:51
  And it's exactly as it sounds. He's a lawyer that has a law firm that makes sure that you trade Bitcoin and the other cryptocurrency
• 20:02
  safely and legally
• 20:04
  And yes, I'm pretty cool topics. I'm like wow
• 20:07
  I never thought there would be anything for Bitcoin
• 20:10
  Like to be like Bitcoin law
• 20:12
  But just the fact that you've made a podcast for this is incredible
• 20:16
  So he was asking me how to monetize. Oh, that's another big one. I'm sure you get that question
• 20:19
  How I monetize my podcast
• 20:22
  I want to be a millionaire in six days
• 20:25
  Yep, you get that did you ever get did you really get that question from anybody? No
• 20:30
  No, you're exaggerating
• 20:31
  That's the mentality on the internet that I see is like why am I not monetized? Oh, do you have listeners? Yeah
• 20:36
  The only millionaire is Joe Rogan right now
• 20:40
  And that and that just came from Spotify like you know, maybe there's some others, but and he obviously everybody knows him
• 20:46
  Um, but how do I monetize? How do I market? What social media? What do I how do I post that whole thing?
• 20:53
  I'm like, you know, there is all out there, but they want me to podcast about it. I'm more I'm more than happy
• 21:00
  I want to go back to something you said about not podcasting with a cheap mic and I want to know what what your like
• 21:07
  I want to know what your opinion of cheap is
• 21:10
  And then I got thoughts
• 21:12
  I'm not going to mention a particular price like I'm not going to save money. It's more about the quality
• 21:17
  This pod this
• 21:19
  microphone was
• 21:21
  $59 in staples
• 21:24
  Okay, it and it's not only powerful
• 21:28
  It's my best it's the best microphone I've had and I have used microphones
• 21:32
  That were $300 that weren't anywhere near as good as this okay, so
• 21:37
  You have to make sure that
• 21:40
  First of all, I'm going to get a little bit technical
• 21:42
  You want to make sure this is a cardioid microphone, okay? There are three times of microphones as unit direction
• 21:49
  If you have a cardioid, it picks up every like around like a heart and
• 21:56
  I there's a uni directional, which is not great because you don't know what direction you're
• 22:00
  You know, you got to be in the right side of the microphone someone change directions. It's all over
• 22:04
  Yeah, and your audio is gone. So
• 22:07
  um
• 22:08
  This is this is um a cardioid, but the other cool thing about this is it's both an XLR and a USB
• 22:15
  So yeah, I'm trying to know here is okay, so most most podcasts mics are now Samson is a really good brand, okay
• 22:23
  Um, I'm also a musician. I don't know if I told you that I'm the songwriter and my podcast studio is also a music production studio
• 22:31
  I've had rena freema was on two of my songs
• 22:34
  So I have to have a microphone that believe it or not when I'm recording my vocals or I'm recording my podcasts
• 22:40
  I need one for the USB right here and I need one for the XLR um and
• 22:48
  I never knew that there was a brand of microphone that actually has both I
• 22:54
  Saw that in staples. I'm like I gotta have that. Well, how much is this 150 bucks? I'm like no it's 59
• 23:01
  Okay, and I bought two of them
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  So that's that's what I will tell you real fast
• 23:10
  I hate to say it. This is a terrible microphone for podcast. Oh my the blue yeti the snowball the snowball is
• 23:20
  Good
• 23:22
  This is this is this is like the anti endorsement
• 23:26
  Yeah, I just said I did a podcast and I did like a live thing everyone's like Bruce like I move this way
• 23:34
  Everybody's like we can't hear you Bruce. I move that way. We can't hear you Bruce. I'm like so I got to be like a robot
• 23:39
  And I got to stick like straight in me get myself. I said I give myself straight into the center
• 23:45
  Of this microphone and I can't be myself and move around and be as animated as I normally am so
• 23:52
  I hate to say it don't get a what is it a blue yeti snowballs snowball is just not and so it's popular too
• 24:02
  Right, I don't get that fun. And so it seems like you
• 24:05
  You're not just poo-pooing it
• 24:08
  For for for the heck of it. It's because you had an experience
• 24:16
  Because I you know, I don't know. I don't know why you would get it
• 24:19
  Like I got it because I saw people using it. I'm like, oh well, you know and and reading the Amazon reviews
• 24:26
  Which go with the mob what's the thing with the
• 24:29
  I think it's a him and wake well when you're when you find yourself on the side of the mob is time to rethink or something
• 24:34
  Yeah, and that's one of those cases
• 24:37
  Just because I like a great Amazon reviews doesn't necessarily mean that you know, well, I don't come at us
• 24:44
  Blue
• 24:46
  Actually, I think I think this is a Samson and Samson to me makes the great
• 24:52
  microphones sure has always been in the in the microphone business. So sure is great
• 24:57
  But I've been using some in fact
• 25:00
  I got a Samson behind me that I've had since the day I started podcasting. I've had for 20 years. It's still in great shape
• 25:10
  So you know, I got I tell people make sure
• 25:14
  You have a very good mess of first thing right? I believe that anybody can talk into a microphone
• 25:21
  Anybody can write a script anybody can write show notes and anybody can do social media marketing if they have the time
• 25:27
  Right a social media market is very time consuming. It's easy
• 25:31
  But it's time assuming so the most important thing about podcasting is make sure you have a great mic
• 25:37
  The rest of it falls in the place
• 25:38
  Bruce I would love to know who is on the mount rush more of podcasters for you. Oh wow. That's a very good question
• 25:46
  Um
• 25:49
  Wow, I gotta think about that one and I would I would probably say Joe Rogan number one. I mean he is
• 25:58
  He I mean he's probably the highest paid podcaster
• 26:02
  Um, I would also say and I'll tell you why I don't remember her last name but Gretchen
• 26:10
  From the mommy cast now
• 26:12
  Mommy mommy cast is not a podcaster anymore
• 26:17
  But in 2005 when she started her
• 26:22
  sponsorship was Pampers
• 26:25
  And she had a $1 million dollar sponsorship with Pampers in 2005. Okay, if you can land a
• 26:32
  $1 million sponsorship from a major brand
• 26:36
  You need to be on Mount Rushmore of the podcasters
• 26:39
  There's no doubt about it
• 26:41
  Especially at the beginning of the game. Yeah, absolutely
• 26:45
  Um, and the other two spots would be you and me
• 26:49
  I'll take it
• 26:51
  There you go
• 26:52
  You're the second person that I've asked that question too and the first person also put me on light
• 26:57
  Okay, first off, I do not deserve to be on any mount rush more of anything unless it's like
• 27:02
  Lounds no you you could uh, no, I'll tell you that I'll tell you what you and I are probably not being enough
• 27:09
  To do the George Washington or the Abe the Abe Lincoln spot
• 27:12
  But we can definitely do the Teddy Roosevelt. I could be the Teddy Roosevelt and you could be the Thomas Jefferson
• 27:17
  Now be it, you know, I think that'd be kind of cool. All right, I'll take it
• 27:22
  Oh, man. Okay, so y'all please check out Bruce and the world podcast network. It is worldpodcast
• 27:31
  dot
• 27:32
  Network
• 27:33
  not worldpodcastnetwork.com. It's worldpodcast.network
• 27:39
  tons of resources blogs you get to find out all the shows there over 1200 in his network and again
• 27:45
  He's like he not like he is the OG when it comes to thank you on having a podcast network
• 27:52
  Bruce, I really really really appreciate you taking the time to join this show
• 27:56
  Thanks, buddy. I appreciate you having me and you're gonna be on my show as well