Latest / Elon Musk Podcast / FULL DOGE HEARING: NPR, PBS Execs Face Tough Battle At Hearing Led By Marjorie Taylor Greene

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FULL DOGE HEARING: NPR, PBS Execs Face Tough Battle At Hearing Led By Marjorie Taylor Greene · Elon Musk Podcast

0:01
Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Elon Musk
0:04
Podcast. This is a show where we discuss
0:07
the critical crossroads, The Shape, SpaceX, Tesla X, The
0:11
Boring Company, and Neurolink. And I'm your host, Will Walden.
0:15
If you want uninterrupted episodes of the Elon Musk
0:18
Podcast, please go to clubelon.supercast.com to find
0:24
out how. There's a link in the show
0:26
notes. This hearing of the Subcommittee
0:30
on Delivering on Government Efficiency will come to order.
0:34
Welcome everyone. Without objection, the Chair may
0:38
declare a recess at anytime. I recognize myself for the
0:42
purpose of making an opening statement.
0:46
Good morning. At the DOGE subcommittee, we are
0:49
continuing our war on waste. That means rooting out spending
0:54
that is unnecessary, wasteful, and frankly, UN American.
0:59
Today we are looking at the more than half a billion dollars
1:03
federal taxpayers spend annually to fund public radio and
1:07
television. A big chunk of this subsidy
1:09
flows to National Public Radio and Public Broadcasting Service.
1:14
NPR and PBS are the big see based entities that create and
1:19
distribute much of the news and educational content heard and
1:23
seen on public radio and TV stations across the country.
1:32
When Congress adopted the Public Broadcasting Act of 1967, it did
1:36
so because it thought at the time that federal dollars were
1:40
needed to provide objective news and education content to the
1:44
entire nation, including rural residents who lived off the
1:48
grid. Fast forward a few decades and a
1:51
lot has changed. The invention of the Internet,
1:55
for instance, and social media. It's made news and information
1:59
widely available to those living in remote areas.
2:02
Americans are increasingly consuming digital media and
2:06
podcast. The audience of public radio and
2:09
television is declining. And I know this because I
2:13
represent a rural district where farmers listen to podcast and
2:18
Internet based news while they drive their tractors.
2:22
At the same time, NPR and PBS have increasingly become radical
2:27
left wing echo chambers for a narrow audience of mostly
2:33
wealthy white urban liberals and progressives who generally look
2:38
down on and judge rural America. PBS News is not just
2:44
left-leaning, but it is is actively uses taxpayer funds to
2:49
push some of the most radical left positions, like featuring a
2:55
drag queen on the show Let's Learn, a show targeted toward
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young children ages 3 to 8 years old.
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I want you to know I grew up watching children's programming
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on PBS, and as a mother who raised three children, I felt
3:14
confident that I could leave the room while my own children were
3:18
watching children's programming on PBS.
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But I can tell you right now, Miss Kerger, specifically as a
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mother, if I had walked in my living room or one of my
3:32
children's bedrooms and seen this child predator and this
3:37
monster targeting my children, I would become unglued.
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And that is how most parents feel all over this country.
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This is not the only example of them sexualizing and grooming
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children. They've been doing it for over
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the last decade. In 2015, PBS produced Frontline
4:02
put out a documentary, Growing Up Trans, that takes viewers on
4:08
an intimate and eye opening journey inside the struggles and
4:12
choices facing transgender kids and their families.
4:16
This means that PBS is one of the founders of the trans child
4:21
abuse industry, all while taking taxpayer money.
4:27
Brainwashing and transient children is an issue so hated by
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parents across the country that it was a driving force in the
4:35
landslide Republican and Trump victory in the 2024 election
4:40
cycle and presidential race. The news that these entities
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produced is either resented or increasingly tuned out and
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turned off by most of the hardworking Americans who are
4:53
forced to pay for it. They no longer view NPR and PBS
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as trusted news sources. As a matter of fact, with these
5:04
people, they're a threat. In fact, when Elon Musk put his
5:08
hand over his heart and extended it and told the American people
5:15
his heart goes out to them, PBS. PBS News posted the clip, called
5:26
it a fascist Nazi salute and described how it was similar to
5:31
the same heil used by Nazis and their victory rallies.
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Not once did PBS or NPR report on the numerous accounts of
5:40
Democrats making the same gesture.
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AOC, Kamala Harris? Barack Obama?
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Elizabeth Warren? Somebody that lost a
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presidential race? Hillary Clinton to Governor Tim
5:56
Waltz? Why wasn't this treated exactly
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the same way? Is there not a standard in
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journalism today? Apparently not.
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Here's How We Lost America's Trust was, in fact the title of
6:14
a powerful essay written last year by Yuri Berliner, a veteran
6:18
NPR editor and his essay. Berliner described how NPR's
6:22
downward spiral accelerated greatly during the first Trump
6:26
administration. He said NPR dedicated efforts to
6:30
damage the Trump presidency via relentless pursuit of Russia.
6:34
Gate rumors that the Trump campaign colluded with Russia
6:37
over the election. NPR host interviewed Adam
6:41
Schiff, then the top Democrat of the House Intelligence
6:44
Committee, 25 times about Trump and Russia.
6:48
But they made no apologies when the Mueller report found no
6:52
evidence that the Trump campaign had colluded with Russia,
6:56
because they did not. Berliner also described NPR's
6:59
passionate and embrace of the left wing DEI ideology that
7:03
Americans clearly reject. As evidenced by the November
7:07
elections. NPR's language and style guides
7:11
were shaped by race and gender based affinity groups that
7:15
dominated the internal culture of the organization.
7:19
And NPR journalists were to ask everyone they interviewed their
7:22
race, gender and ethnicity and enter it into a centralized
7:28
tracking system. This tracking system embeds DEI
7:32
into the fibers of its content. Sounds like racism to me.
7:38
It's a software attached to NPR's content management system,
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where these reporters and producers submit information
7:45
about their sources, race and ethnicity, gender identity,
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geographic location. That's kind of scary.
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And age range. The tool allows NPR to track the
7:55
demographics of their sources in real time to allow for source
8:00
diversity. The irony of these supposed
8:03
diverse sources is that NPR has no interest, real interest in
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diversity, like having diverse viewpoints.
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Berliner tried to sound the alarm on this when he checked
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voter registration records on of the editors at DC's NPR
8:20
headquarters and found 87 registered Democrats and 0
8:26
registered Republicans. But NPR treated Berliner like a
8:31
political dissident in the old Soviet Union.
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He was driven out of the organization and forced to
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resign. Sounds like communism.
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And the ringleader of that effort was NPR's then newly
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appointed CEO Catherine Maher, who is before us today.
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She dismissed Mr. Berliners wake up call as profoundly
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disrespectful, hurtful and demeaning.
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In other words, instead of viewing it as a chance to
9:00
finally right the ship at NPR, she doubled down.
9:03
In doing so, she made it clear how any further internal dissent
9:08
would be dealt with on her watch.
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That does sound like Communist China at the taxpayers expense
9:16
and no one should be surprised. NPR installed her in the top job
9:21
after Miss Maher was firmly on record with a litany litany of
9:25
public comments and social media posts displaying her ultra
9:28
progressive views, her scorn for free speech, and her fondness
9:32
for censorship. So now it's up to Congress to
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determine if Americans are going to continue to provide her and
9:40
the organization that put her in charge willingly after they knew
9:45
these things with taxpayer funds, to continue to pursue
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their progressive, or rather communist agenda.
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For far too long, federal taxpayers have been forced to
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fund biased news. This needs to come to an end,
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and it needs to come to an end now.
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So I am glad Miss Marr and Miss Kerger accepted our invitation
10:07
to show up today and be held accountable to the taxpayers.
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I look forward to them answering our questions in full public
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view and explaining to the American people why they think
10:20
they deserve Americans hard earned taxpayer money.
10:25
I request unanimous consent that Representative Jim Jordan from
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Ohio, Representative ROH Khanna from California, Representative
10:33
Emily Randall from Washington be waived on to today's hearing for
10:37
the purpose of asking questions without objection.
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So ordered. And with that, I yield to
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Ranking Member Lynch for his opening statement.
10:48
Thank you. Madam Chair, I want to thank the
10:50
witnesses for your willingness to come forward and offer your
10:54
advice and and testimony to this committee.
10:58
Madam Chair, for over 2 decades of service on this Oversight
11:02
Committee, I've worked with members on both sides of the
11:05
aisle to investigate issues of critical importance to the
11:09
safety and security of the American people, including the
11:12
conduct of wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, terrorist attacks
11:16
against the US compound, classified annex and Benghazi,
11:20
and several major intelligence and security breaches under
11:25
Democratic and Republican administrations.
11:28
So I'm sad to see that this once proud committee, the principal
11:32
investigative committee in the House of Representatives, has
11:34
now stooped to the lowest levels of partisanship and political
11:39
theatre to hold a hearing to go after the likes of Elmo and
11:43
Cookie Monster and Arthur the Aardvark.
11:46
All for the unforgivable sin of teaching the alphabet to low
11:50
income families, children and providing accessible local news
11:54
and programming. This hearing also comes at the
11:57
direction of President Trump and Elon Musk, who have repeatedly
12:00
called for the defunding of all public media and claimed that
12:03
media organizations such as PBS and NPR are and I quote, a
12:07
liberal disinformation machine. close quote.
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Meanwhile, the Trump administration administration is
12:13
engaged in an actual disinformation campaign to
12:16
minimize the catastrophic national security breach that
12:21
was revealed earlier this week. As reported by Atlantic editor
12:25
in chief Jeffrey Goldberg. Mr. Goldberg was inadvertently
12:28
added to a group chat on an unauthorized non secure publicly
12:33
available message app in which Secretary of Defense Pete
12:37
Hegseth disclosed quote operational details of
12:40
forthcoming strikes on Yemen, including information about
12:44
targets, weapons systems and other actions the US would be
12:49
taking and also attack sequencing.
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I want to remind my colleagues in Congress, the federal law
12:58
makes it a crime when a person through gross negligence removes
13:02
information relating to National Defense from its proper place of
13:05
custody or delivered to anyone in violation of this trust ought
13:09
to be lost, stolen or abstracted or destroyed.
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And what's more, if evidence shows that any of the parties
13:16
who are in on that Signal chat chat lied under the oh underoath
13:22
in the Senate yesterday, Mr. Ratcliffe or Mr. Ratcliffe or
13:26
Miss Gabbard, for instance, then certainly conspiracy to conceal
13:30
that breach would be far more worse.
13:33
Far worse, where center or criminal attempt is in evidence
13:39
and would be more likely to invite culpability and possible
13:42
criminal liability, the Secretary of Defense would be
13:46
subject to criminal prosecution and it would be the
13:49
responsibility of the US Attorney General to prosecute
13:52
that. But we're a conflict exists
13:55
exists. It might require a special
13:57
prosecutor. This security breach severely
14:00
compromised the safety of American troops in advance of
14:03
imminent US operations and airstrikes against Houthi rebel
14:07
positions. It is well documented that the
14:10
Houthi arsenal includes anti aircraft capability, ballistic
14:15
missiles, cruise missiles, crockets and unmet aerial attack
14:18
drones. Mr. Goldberg, who was unwilling
14:21
unwittingly elevated to the clearance level afforded to
14:25
members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, was also joined in the
14:28
exposed group chat by Vice President JD Vance, Secretary of
14:32
State Marco Rubio and National Security Adviser Mike Walls and
14:36
other senior members of the President of President Trump's
14:38
national security team. This committee should be
14:40
questioning every single one of them as to why they were using
14:44
an unapproved unsecured messaging app to conduct
14:48
sensitive classified discussions about military operations in
14:52
which our sons and daughters in uniform are being sent into
14:56
battle. One of the participants was
15:00
actually sitting in Russia, sitting in Russia using an
15:04
unsecure app, and every member of this committee knows what
15:08
that means. We've all been advised about
15:11
which apps are secure and insecure and when it is
15:14
appropriate to engage in in non critical discussions.
15:18
As former chairman of our Subcommittee on National
15:21
Security, I recall a time when just the potential for a
15:25
security breach that could expose American troops and
15:27
intelligence personnel to unnecessary danger would
15:30
immediately trigger hearings and bring this committee to a lather
15:33
on both sides. But you can bet we won't be
15:37
touching this issue because today the controlling House
15:43
majority is afraid to do its job.
15:45
It is afraid to hold Trump and Trump's administration
15:50
accountable. They would rather post up
15:52
against Big Bird than deal with that that issue.
15:57
In reference to public media, Elon Musk recently asked should
16:01
your tax dollars really be paying for an organization run
16:03
by people who think the truth is a distraction?
16:06
Well, I would say about the same about a cut the current
16:08
administration and it's proliferation of disinformation
16:11
from claims that Ukraine, Ukraine caused its own, started
16:16
its own invasion to heck Secretary Hedges assertion that
16:22
no one was texting war plans. You can read the text today
16:27
because yesterday in the hearing they said it wasn't classified
16:31
information. So you can actually go on the
16:33
New York Times website and read the text that was discussed in
16:39
advance of our military operations in Yemen.
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Madam Chair, if shame was still a thing, this hearing would be
16:46
shameful. And I yield back the balance of
16:48
my time. I am pleased to introduce our
17:00
witnesses today. Paula Kerger is the president
17:03
and Chief Executive officer of the Public Broadcasting Service,
17:07
also known as PBS. Katherine Maher is the president
17:11
and chief executive officer of National Public Radio, also
17:15
known as NPR. Mike Gonzalez is the Angeles T
17:21
arid donato E pluribus Unum Senior Fellow at the Heritage
17:26
Foundation. Ed Ullman is the president and
17:29
CEO of Alaska Public Media. Again, I want to thank you all
17:34
for being here to testify today. Pursuant to Committee Rule 9 G,
17:39
the witnesses will please stand and raise their right hand.
17:46
Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony that you're
17:50
about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
17:54
truth, so help you God? Let the record show that the
17:59
witnesses answered in the affirmative.
18:01
Thank you. You may take a seat.
18:04
We appreciate you being here today and look forward to your
18:08
testimony. Let me remind the witnesses that
18:11
we have read your written statement and it will appear in
18:14
full in the hearing record. Please limit your oral statement
18:18
to 5 minutes. As a reminder, please press the
18:22
button on the microphone in front of you so that it is on
18:27
and the members can hear you. When you begin to speak, the
18:31
light in front of you will turn green after 4 minutes.
18:34
The light will turn yellow when the red light comes on.
18:38
Your 5 minutes have expired and we would ask that you please do
18:42
your best to wrap up. I now recognize Catherine Maher
18:45
for her opening statement. Chairwoman Greene, Ranking
18:51
Member Lynch, and distinguished members of the subcommittee.
18:54
My name is Catherine Marr and I'm the President and CEO of
18:57
National Public Radio, and I welcome the opportunity to
19:00
discuss the essential role of public media in delivering
19:04
unbiased, nonpartisan, fact based reporting to Americans.
19:08
Americans listen to public radio as they commute, as they work
19:12
and in the kitchen as they cook with family.
19:14
Nearly 100% of Americans live within range of a public radio
19:18
station. We cover what matters to local
19:20
communities, crop prices, cook offs, and local sports teams
19:24
alongside news of the nation and the world.
19:26
From the halls of Congress to coverage of our troops overseas.
19:30
Today, Americans have more media choices than ever.
19:33
The rise of podcasting has established a competitive free
19:36
market for audio, news and information, and every day I am
19:40
honored to know that we have 43,000,000 listeners from every
19:44
state in the nation. Amidst this competition, local
19:47
stations choose to become members of NPR for the value we
19:51
provide. For example, we are the only non
19:54
paywalled news outlet with a dedicated reporter covering
19:56
veterans issues, while NPR is only 25% of station programming
20:01
on average. Audiences for NPR bring the
20:04
scale and revenue that subsidized essential local
20:07
programming. Local public media journalism
20:09
has never been more important to American families who consider
20:12
it part of the fabric of their communities.
20:15
It correlates with higher rates of civic engagement, greater
20:18
civic cohesion, and economic advantages such as better
20:21
municipal bond ratings. Recent independent polling found
20:24
that more than 60% of all Americans and more than half of
20:27
Republicans trust public broadcasting to deliver fact
20:31
based news. I understand the subcommittee
20:34
has questions about funding for NPR and public radio.
20:37
The vast majority of federal dollars, more than 100 million
20:40
of the 121 million annual appropriation for public radio
20:44
goes directly to 386 local non commercial stations across the
20:49
nation. This highly efficient investment
20:52
enables your local stations to raise an average of $7.00 for
20:55
every federal dollar. As a grantee of the Corporation
20:59
for Public Broadcasting, NPR received federal funding of 11.2
21:03
million last year. These funds allow us to maintain
21:06
the National Public Radio satellite system, helping
21:09
safeguard our national security, civil defense and disaster
21:13
response, and enabling public radio to reach every corner of
21:16
America. Additionally, these funds help
21:18
protect journalists covering our troops overseas and reverse the
21:22
decline of local journalism. As a recipient of federal funds,
21:26
it is our responsibility to answer legitimate questions
21:29
about why public funds should go to NPR, whether we are truly
21:32
committed to serving all Americans, and whether the
21:34
institution is an effective steward of taxpayer dollars.
21:38
I hear, respect, and understand your concerns regarding bias and
21:43
whether public media is relevant in a commercial landscape, and
21:46
I'd like to spend a minute sharing with you my actions to
21:48
address your concerns. First, it is critical for NP Rs
21:52
Newsroom to operate with the highest journalistic standards.
21:55
That means that they do their jobs independently and as Ceoi
21:58
have no editorial role at NPR. In other words, I do not decide
22:02
what we cover or how we cover it.
22:05
I lead NPR strategy, ensuring we have resources and policies in
22:08
place to serve all Americans, not just those with a specific
22:11
point of view. I was brought into NPR to revive
22:15
and reorient the organization and bring public media to a
22:18
wider audience, a new generation and new platforms.
22:21
We have a responsibility to serve Americans across the full
22:24
political spectrum in a trustworthy, nonpartisan
22:27
fashion. It is essential that we deliver
22:29
on this commitment, and we have work to do, and we are doing it.
22:33
In May, we launched an initiative to improve our
22:35
editorial review processes to make sure all pieces are fair
22:38
and comprehensive. We hired new editors and
22:41
analysts to ensure we're giving fair airtime to different voices
22:44
and issues. We started regular meetings with
22:46
our nearly 200 local newsrooms so we can plan together for the
22:50
needs of their audiences. And the early results are
22:53
positive. Our digital platforms, where we
22:55
have the best data about our listeners.
22:58
The political beliefs of our visitors mirror the makeup of
23:01
the country across the ideological spectrum, and we're
23:05
seeing growth in readers and listeners.
23:08
I joined NPR because I believe that our strong and dynamic
23:11
nation deserves great public media for all.
23:14
Americans are smart and curious, and they want us to cover issues
23:17
that matter, from the price of eggs to national security.
23:21
It's our job to deliver truthful facts and information so
23:24
citizens can make up their own minds.
23:26
I believe Americans voted for a transformative administration,
23:30
and it is our responsibility to cover that transformation
23:33
fairly, with integrity and tenacity.
23:36
I have been CEO for one year and one day.
23:39
I have made changes to leadership and planning,
23:41
invested in editorial integrity, committed to expanding our
23:44
audiences and our relevance for all Americans.
23:46
While we have taken significant steps in the right direction,
23:49
the journey can't be completed overnight.
23:51
Given the support that 75% of Americans have for public media,
23:55
I asked Congress to give us the opportunity to continue to serve
23:57
the American public. I will invite you to listen with
24:00
a fresh ear and to that end, our newsroom invites you to join us
24:04
on air and I welcome your questions.
24:07
Thank you, Miss Maher. I now recognize Paula Kerger for
24:10
her opening statement. Chair Taylor Green, Congressman
24:15
Lynch, and members of the subcommittee.
24:18
My name is Paula Kerger and I'm the President and CEO of PBS, a
24:22
role that I've held for 19 years.
24:24
It is my honor to be here on behalf of the 336 PBS stations
24:29
who said who serve every community in the United States.
24:33
There's nothing more American than PBS.
24:36
As a membership organization, our local service is at the
24:39
heart of our work. Our job at PBS is to support our
24:42
stations so that local stations can serve their communities.
24:46
We've been proudly fulfilling our mission for nearly 60 years,
24:49
using the public airwaves and other technologies to help
24:52
educate, engage and inspire the American people.
24:56
That mission is our GuideStar and remains just as important
25:00
today as when the Public Broadcasting Act was signed into
25:02
law in 1967. PBS stations provide something
25:06
that cannot be found on commercial networks.
25:09
This is because PBS stations are focused on the needs and
25:12
interests of the viewers they serve.
25:14
Especially in rural areas. PBS stations are the only outlet
25:18
providing coverage of local events, for example, high school
25:21
sports, local history and culture content, candidate
25:25
debates at every level of the election ballot, and specialized
25:28
agricultural news. Local stations also partner with
25:32
other community organizations to address issues of concern like
25:35
Veterans Affairs and the opioid crisis.
25:38
Finally, communities depend on the essential public safety
25:41
information and emergency alerts our local stations provide.
25:45
Our programming comes from our local stations.
25:48
For example, Southern Storytellers was produced by
25:51
Arkansas PBS for our national audience.
25:54
This program highlighted Southern culture through its
25:56
literature, music and film. Across the country, nearly 4
26:00
million people watch Southern Tory Storytellers, helping
26:03
Americans learn about our shared history and what brings us
26:06
together as a people and a nation.
26:09
Our stations pool resources to invest in programming that will
26:12
benefit all Americans, ranging from history and science to art
26:16
and music. For example, Firing Line with
26:18
Margaret Hoover creates a forum for people with a wide range of
26:21
views to respectfully share ideas, while programs like
26:25
Independent Lenses, Matter of Mind, My Alzheimer's explores
26:28
the challenges facing many American families, and we
26:32
celebrate what makes our country great.
26:34
A capital 4th in the National Memorial Day Concert.
26:37
Honor our nation's ideals, our service members, and our
26:40
veterans. Looking ahead, we will mark our
26:43
nation's 250th birthday with the landmark initiative headlined by
26:47
a new major series from Ken Burns, The American Revolution.
26:51
Our educational programming for children is one of the most
26:53
important aspects of our service to the American people.
26:56
I strongly believe that the programming we offer to prepare
26:59
children for the future is the most essential work that we do
27:03
today. More than half of all preschool
27:05
aged children are not enrolled in pre kindergarten programs.
27:09
Our content has helped 10s of millions of children prepare for
27:12
success in school and in life with free programming that is
27:15
available everywhere children are on air, online and in the
27:19
classroom. Our educational programming is
27:22
backed by scores of research studies showing that our
27:24
programs like Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood and Super Why help
27:28
kids develop essential skills like reading, math and problem
27:32
solving. We are proud that nearly 9 out
27:34
of 10 families agree that PBS is the most trusted, safe and
27:38
educational media brand for children.
27:41
Because our programming is free and university available, we are
27:44
able to reach more low income families than any other media
27:47
company. In fact, our viewers overall
27:50
reflect the wide variety of communities we serve.
27:53
Our audience mirrors the overall US population with respect to
27:57
education, income and geography. Each month, over a 160 million
28:03
television and online viewers explore the world through our
28:05
trusted content, and more than 3/4 of Americans feel that PBS
28:09
stations provide excellent value to their communities.
28:13
For over 2 decades, the American public has consistently ranked
28:16
public television as one of the best investments the government
28:19
makes. More than 70% of the CPB funds
28:22
from Congress go directly to our stations, and for every dollar
28:26
of that vital seed money, local stations raise 7 to support
28:30
their work. This is one of the best, most
28:32
successful examples of a public private partnership.
28:36
When I think about the need for our service, I think of a man I
28:39
met during a visit to a local station in Nebraska.
28:43
It was a rancher with young children.
28:44
He drove hours to attend a local station event.
28:47
He pulled me aside and told me this.
28:50
We need PBS. We don't live near a preschool.
28:53
My children have learned to read.
28:55
Watching PBS shows and the shows we watch on PBS are our
28:59
connection to the rest of America.
29:01
That is why PBS and the 336 local stations in your
29:05
communities do what we do PBS programming and the services
29:09
that local stations provide bring Americans together.
29:12
It is valued, needed, and trusted by the American people.
29:16
I appreciate the opportunity to be here today and I look forward
29:19
to your questions. Thank you, Miss Kerger.
29:22
I now recognize Mike Gonzalez for his opening statement.
29:26
Thank you, Chairwoman Field Chairwoman Taylor Green.
29:30
Thank you, Member Lynch, for allowing me to appear before you
29:33
today. My name is Mike Gonzalez.
29:35
I'm a senior fellow at the Heritage Foundation.
29:38
The views expressed are my own and should not be construed as
29:40
representing any official position of the Heritage
29:43
Foundation. Before joining Heritage 16 years
29:46
ago, I was a journalist for many years.
29:49
I worked in Latin America, Asia and Europe, travelled with the
29:52
Mujahideen in Afghanistan, was arrested in Panama, witnessed
29:55
China's takeover of Hong Kong and covered the stock market for
29:58
the Wall Street Journal. I have even covered high school
30:01
sports. I know that journalists can keep
30:03
the prejudices in check, that is, if they want to.
30:06
This ability to give all sides a hearing becomes an even more
30:08
serious obligation when taxpayers are coerced to pay for
30:12
you. Yet NPRPBS and the other state
30:15
broadcasters refused to abide by the simple code of decency.
30:19
For decades, they've asked for more money while telling telling
30:22
conservatives to get lost. But the Nation Today is in a
30:25
very different place with $36 trillion in debt.
30:28
And more importantly, we're seeing not just a shift in our
30:31
cultural vibe, but a shift in societal paradigms to the
30:35
egregious bias NPR and PBS had violated the public trust.
30:39
Public media needs to be defunded, and the CPB needs to
30:42
be dissolved. It's a matter of simple
30:44
fairness. Multiple arguments can be made.
30:47
I will list just a few. We're deeply in debt #2 the
30:50
arrangement is unfair to private sector media competitors #3
30:54
Public broadcasting was created with the promise that it would
30:57
be educational. But now that thousands of
30:59
competitors have come online, public media has become, as
31:02
George Will says, that the human appendage is digital and
31:05
purposeless. The funding is a regressive tax
31:08
and obnoxious wealth transfer from working families to the
31:11
affluent. But the ultimate factor is the
31:14
broadcasters unforgivable political bias.
31:17
What we have today is a circular, undemocratic
31:19
relationship. Democrats unanimously vote for
31:22
more and more money for public media and exchange.
31:25
Public media heavily tips the scale in their favour.
31:28
It is a nice arrangement for them but it must end.
31:31
NP Rs and PB s s full hearted embrace of progressive views and
31:35
constant denigration of conservative ones is
31:37
quantifiable. I referred, thank you, I
31:41
referred you to my written testimony.
31:43
Besides my own examples, I cite the research of Tim Graham as
31:46
well as NPR veteran Yuri Berliner, who says, quote, an
31:49
open minded spirit no longer exists within NPR.
31:53
Rather than pause and reflect, NPR instead chose to circle the
31:56
wagons and assassinate Berliner's character.
31:59
This is part of a pattern. In 2010, NPR fired Juan Williams
32:03
and vilified him as a psycho after he dared to flout the
32:07
network's progressive orthodoxy. The people running NPR remain,
32:11
in Mr. Williams words, an insulated catter of people who
32:14
think they're right and who have a hard time with people who are
32:17
different. They went completely off the
32:19
rails when Donald Trump was elected in 2016, coverage quote
32:22
veered towards efforts to topple the Trump presidency.
32:25
Berliner said NPR hates his wagon to the false claim that
32:29
Russia had colluded with the Trump campaign.
32:31
It also refused to cover the Hunter Biden lab story.
32:34
After the 2020 riots, NPR firmly sided with those who affirmed,
32:38
without a shred of evidence, that America is an oppressive
32:41
society gripped by systemic racism.
32:44
NPR and PBS even justified looting rather than just then
32:47
use journalism as a truth seeking tool.
32:50
NPR and PBS distorted journalism to further a political agenda.
32:54
Yamiche Alcindor, the liberal activist that the PBS hired to
32:58
cover the White House routinely used the platform to make a
33:01
substantiated allegations against President Trump.
33:04
President Biden she presented as quote, a moral and decent meant
33:07
UN quote. Or consider Catherine Maher's
33:09
appointment as NPR CEO. A long record of comments leave
33:13
zeroed out that she's not only a committed progressive, but
33:17
someone whose disdain for free expression disqualifies her from
33:20
being anywhere close to the levers of power at a media
33:23
institution. And what does she think of
33:25
President Trump? He's, quote, a deranged, racist
33:28
sociopath. Miss Maher is in America.
33:31
She's entitled to her views. The question is whether NPR is
33:33
entitled to a pointer as CEO and then ask conservatives to just
33:37
pony up. Public media's main argument now
33:40
is that it is essential for weather emergencies in hard to
33:43
reach places and that without public money, local news will
33:46
cease to exist. But over 98% of Americans today
33:49
have a mobile phone. Even Alaska, one of our most
33:52
isolated states, has high levels of Internet penetration.
33:56
As for the claim that the taxpayer is the last available
33:59
business model for local news, NPR and PBS are asking us to
34:03
believe something laughable that the government can set and fund
34:08
a media structure that actually keeps the government in check.
34:12
ICE urge you not to try to mend public broadcasting.
34:15
Ended. Thank you very much for your
34:17
attention and I look forward to your questions.
34:20
Thank you, Mr. Gonzalez. I now recognize Ed Ullman for
34:24
his opening statement. Madam Chair, Ranking Member and
34:31
distinguished members of the subcommittee, it is an honor to
34:34
be here today. My name is Edelman.
34:36
I'm the president and CEO of Alaska Public Media.
34:39
The people of Alaska rely on public media to provide free
34:43
universal access to essential services and public safety,
34:47
education and community connections.
34:49
This includes potentially life saving alerts, updates on
34:53
community affairs, coverage of state and local government,
34:56
proven educational content, engagement services, and local
35:00
and national news. In many parts of Alaska and
35:03
communities throughout the country, public Media is often
35:06
the only locally operated, locally controlled broadcasting
35:10
service. We are more than nice to have.
35:13
We are essential, especially in remote and rural places where
35:17
commercial broadcasting cannot succeed.
35:20
We provide professional, potentially life saving warnings
35:23
and alerts that are crucial for Alaskans who face threats
35:26
ranging from extreme weather to earthquakes, landslides, and
35:30
even volcanoes nationwide. Our public television
35:33
interconnection system supports the PBS Warning Alert Response
35:38
Network, a critical pathway for the distribution of wireless
35:42
energy emergency alerts to cell phones.
35:45
Public Television pioneered data casting technology to enable
35:49
public safety officials to communicate with each other
35:52
without the need for broadband or cell service.
35:56
In partnership with the Department of Homeland Security,
35:58
Public Television has proven how this technology can assist rural
36:02
search and rescue, over water communications, large event
36:06
cloud, crowd control, and even school safety incidents.
36:10
Alaskans use our services to connect to their communities and
36:14
the broader world through access to local public and government
36:17
affairs, agricultural news, local history and culture, as
36:21
well as local and national educational content and news.
36:25
Our programming caters to and is informed by the specific needs
36:29
of the communities we serve. Just to give a few examples, in
36:33
the Alaska, an award-winning series of documentaries captures
36:36
Alaska's people, places, and their unique stories.
36:40
Alaska Insight is a weekly public affairs program that
36:43
moves the conversation beyond the headlines and right into
36:46
Alaska's communities. Our radio station hosts Alaska's
36:49
only statewide call in programs, Talk of Alaska and Line One Your
36:55
Health Connection. We reach across Alaska with
36:58
these essential free services through a statewide network
37:02
consisting of four TV channels and 1 radio station.
37:05
We coordinate the only statewide news network which includes 27
37:11
independent radio stations across Alaska.
37:13
And we operate the Alaska Rural Communication System, which
37:16
provides free over the air television and radio programming
37:20
to 100 rural communities. Alaska Public Media is one of
37:25
more than 360 locally controlled and operated public television
37:29
stations and over 1000 public radio stations throughout the
37:32
country that provide critical services to address the broad
37:35
range of interest and views of our local communities.
37:39
These stations collectively reach nearly 99% of the American
37:42
public regardless of zip code, our income level.
37:46
This nationwide service would not be possible without federal
37:50
support. Today, over 70% of the federal
37:53
funds for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting go directly
37:56
to stations just like ours. Our system leverages this
38:00
crucial seed money 7 times over and highly efficient public
38:04
private partnerships. Reducing or eliminating federal
38:07
funding would be devastating and could cause the closure of many
38:12
stations, especially the most rural and remote.
38:17
Our highest costs come from maintaining broadcast and IT
38:20
infrastructure, local programming, and community
38:23
engagement, all of which would be in serious jeopardy without
38:27
federal funding. Cuts to our national partners,
38:30
PBS and NPR would have a similar impact, particularly in small
38:34
and rural markets. The broad range of news and
38:37
educational programming that we receive from these organizations
38:40
is popular with Alaskans. Without this national content,
38:44
we would receive less local support, endangering the local
38:48
services we provide. This local this national local
38:52
model efficiently leverages economies of scale and allows us
38:56
to provide the unique mix of local programming and national
38:59
content that Alaskans want. Congress's support for the
39:03
mission of public broadcasting to provide every American access
39:07
to free, non commercial quality educational programming remains
39:11
critical. It allows us to connect Alaskans
39:14
with each other and with our neighbors in the Lower 48 and to
39:18
connect the nation with us. I urge Congress to maintain
39:22
federal funding for public broadcasting to ensure that
39:25
local stations around the country can continue to provide
39:28
essential services to their local areas.
39:31
I welcome your questions. Thank you, Mr. Allman.
39:35
I now recognize myself for 5 minutes of questions.
39:39
Miss Marr, your public statements and social media
39:43
posts reflect left wing ideology and blatant opposition to free
39:48
speech. After all, you were the head of
39:50
Wikipedia for many years, which is a platform that doesn't tell
39:54
the truth. Let's walk through some of the
39:57
public some of your statements so the public can understand
40:01
your personal views. Your fellow Amerit, you said.
40:04
Your fellow Americans. Your fellow Americans just
40:08
selected Donald Trump as president again this past
40:12
November. You called him a deranged racist
40:16
and sociopath. You posted on X that America is
40:21
addicted to white supremacy. It's appalling.
40:26
You've publicly chastised using the phrase boy and girl, which
40:31
you said erases the language for non binary people.
40:36
There's only two genders. By the way, Miss Marr, the
40:39
federal funding that your outlet receives comes from all American
40:44
taxpayer dollars, not just from your viewers who support such
40:49
statements as these. Let me inform you.
40:53
And that so that your that your federal funding is also paid for
40:57
by the other half of the country, the 77 million
41:02
Americans who voted for President Trump.
41:05
Someone you called a deranged racist sociopath.
41:11
Mr. Maher, many find you're pro censorship and anti free speech
41:16
views more concerning than your politics.
41:20
The only speech you the only speech you like seems to be
41:25
speech that you agree with. In 2021, you called the 1st
41:28
Amendment the number one challenge in American journalism
41:33
because it makes it hard to crack down on bad information.
41:37
You said in a Ted talk that our reverence for the truth might be
41:42
a distraction. You've also expressed support
41:46
for D platforming individuals you view as fascist.
41:52
Who do you think should be charged with cracking down on
41:57
so-called bad information? Is it NPR?
42:00
Is it the government? Is it you Miss Marr?
42:05
Congressman woman, Madam Chair, thank you so much for the
42:08
opportunity to address this. I know youth.
42:10
Is it? Is it?
42:11
Is it up to you and NPR to crack down on bad information or
42:14
decide the truth? Answer the question yes or no
42:16
Miss Moore? Absolutely.
42:17
Not I'm a very strong believer in free speech, and I believe
42:20
that more Spears. Your public statements say
42:22
otherwise. Miss Martin, 2021, when speaking
42:25
at an Atlantic Council event, you said that when you were CEO
42:28
of Wikipedia, you took a very active approach to
42:32
disinformation and misinformation.
42:34
During the Cova pandemic in the 2020 election, you said you
42:38
censored information through conversations with government.
42:42
Which governments were those, Miss Maher?
42:44
The Biden administration? Yes or no, Madam?
42:46
Chair Wikipedia never censored any information.
42:49
These are your public statements, Miss Maher.
42:51
Miss Maher, are you familiar with Section 399-B of the
42:55
Communications Act? It prohibits non commercial
42:58
education broadcast stations NC ES from airing commercials on
43:02
behalf for of for profit entities.
43:06
The FCC recently opened an investigation into the
43:09
underwriting announcements and related policies of NPR and PBS.
43:14
Does NPR air commercials for for profit entities?
43:17
Miss Marr? Yes or no, Madam?
43:19
Chair, we are in full compliance and with the FC CS inquiry and
43:23
we'll continue to cooperate. I remind you you're underoath
43:26
and violations of community of the Communications Act comes
43:30
with a fine up to $10,000 and possibly up to a year in prison.
43:35
Does PBS air for for profit commercials?
43:38
Miss Kroger. We are underwriting
43:41
announcements and we believe we are in full compliance with the
43:44
FCC and we look forward to delivering the material required
43:48
in this part of this investigation.
43:49
We. Look forward to that too.
43:51
I'm assuming you're concerned, both of you are concerned about
43:53
this and that's why you brought so many attorneys with you
43:56
today. Miss Kroger using taxpayer
43:58
subsidies, PBS funded independent lens to make
44:02
documentaries for part of your programming.
44:04
In 2016, Real Boy was aired, about a trans teen navigating
44:09
adolescent sobriety and the ramification of his gender
44:13
identity. In 2022, the same series aired
44:16
Our League, in which a trans woman comes to her old school
44:20
Ohio bowling league and a story about transition.
44:23
Then in 2024, Erases Trees was aired, telling a story of how in
44:28
Palm Springs, a black neighborhood fights to remove a
44:31
divisive wall of trees. Do you think PBS finds needs to
44:36
fund ridiculous material such as this that the taxpayers are
44:40
having to to pay for? These are documentary films that
44:44
are point of view pieces that are part of our primetime
44:46
schedule for adults. And parents and adults don't
44:50
trust that type of programming. Thank you, Madam Chair.
44:58
I ask a unanimous consent to enter into the record this
45:04
letter from 72 public radio stations serving rural
45:08
communities across the country, where they emphasize how
45:12
important federal funding is to the ability to provide vital
45:15
public safety information without.
45:17
Objection so ordered OK. I also have a similar letter
45:21
from Georgia from the Georgia PBS NPR station also asking for
45:28
consideration for federal funding without.
45:30
Objection so ordered. Thank you, Miss Kerger and and,
45:35
and Miss Maher. Can we talk a little bit about
45:40
the educational service you provide for for children of low
45:49
income families and and how that that is received and the trust
45:55
that you've generated among among families in that
45:58
situation? Yes, a significant part of our
46:01
broadcast day is devoted to programming for children.
46:06
We focus on preschool that is goes back to the legacy of Fred
46:11
Rogers who believe that media could be a tool to help to
46:14
instruct children as well as a tool of entertainment.
46:17
Our programming is focused on core skills that kids need to
46:21
develop before they enter school, in math and in learning
46:25
numbers and in learning letters, so that kids that don't have the
46:30
opportunity to be in a formal pre-K program have a chance to
46:34
walk into school for the first time on equal footing with kids
46:38
that have more opportunity. And that's the heart of what we
46:41
think about in the programming that we developed for kids.
46:45
I know you've done some well independent groups have done
46:48
assessments on on trust, the trust factor that that parents
46:53
have on PBS Kids, which is one of your most popular services.
47:01
Can you can you talk about that? Where did you come in in terms
47:05
of the, the, you know, the, the comparison to other stations?
47:10
Yeah. We're we are the most trusted
47:12
media brand. In fact, parents magazine this
47:14
week just run the ran the results of a study that was done
47:17
on Daniel Tigers neighborhood actually looking at 16 year olds
47:21
that remember some of the basic skills they learned as small
47:24
children. And what we're focused on is to
47:26
make sure, again, that every child has the opportunity to
47:30
learn and be excited about about the world around them when they
47:33
enter a school for the first time, and to give them those
47:36
core base skills that we can see they carry forward in life.
47:43
Miss Marr, I'd like you to focus on the work that public media is
47:49
doing in relation to public safety communications.
47:53
How important is is this function of a public broadcast
47:57
media, particularly I'm talking about the most rural, most
48:02
remote communities in this country.
48:05
Thank you so much, Congressman. We are part of the national Next
48:09
Generation Warning System, for which we've received a
48:11
significant investment over the course of the last few years and
48:15
Many thanks to Congress for supporting that appropriation.
48:18
Our stations are busy implementing that across the
48:21
nation. We also are part of the national
48:24
or sorry, excuse me, the statewide emergency plans for
48:27
more than 20 states. You'll see the importance and
48:30
value of public radio in particular when we face climate
48:36
or, sorry, excuse me, extreme weather, for example, weather in
48:39
Ashland, North Carolina. Recently, we Blue Ridge Public
48:43
Radio was the only news information source available for
48:46
nearly two weeks as people struggled with outages of water
48:50
and electricity, and certainly outages of cell phones and
48:53
Internet. Recently as well, my colleague
48:55
from Alaska would be able to speak to Raven Public Media,
48:59
which had a very similar experience of two weeks of
49:01
outages in which the local media station was again the only
49:05
source of information for that community.
49:07
When everything else goes down, public radio is there available
49:11
to 1st responders to be able to communicate directly about
49:15
issues of harm and ensure the public has access to vital
49:19
critical information. Now, I mean, there's a lot of
49:23
information out there, a lot of stations out there, but we're
49:26
talking what's what's the difference here when you have a
49:29
paywall free non subscription access for for some of these
49:33
communities. I think it makes all the
49:35
difference in the world, Sir. We recently, as I mentioned in
49:38
my opening statement, we're one of the only publications in
49:41
America that has a dedicated veterans beat and the only one
49:44
without a paywall. I'm always struck by something
49:47
that our veterans reporter told me, which is that a mother of
49:51
one of our troops deployed overseas came to him and said
49:54
that for the first time in nine months, she'd heard his son's
49:57
voice. That's something that I believe
49:59
only public media can do, and it can only do that because it is
50:02
available to all Americans without any barriers.
50:07
Thank you, Madam Chair. I yield back.
50:09
I now recognize Chairman Comer from Kentucky for 5 minutes.
50:13
Thank you. Madam Chair, Mr. Ullman, I'm
50:15
glad you brought up a point. It's been mentioned a couple of
50:18
times already at the early start of this hearing about rural and
50:22
remote and, and I have to tell the story.
50:25
When I graduated from college with a degree in agriculture, I
50:28
went back to rural Monroe County, Kentucky and worked on a
50:33
farm, my farm for five years, full time farm to this day, but
50:39
full time. I was in a tractor sometimes
50:42
10/12/14 hours a day. And I listened to the radio and
50:45
the only radio station I could get that had news was, was
50:50
public radio. So I listened to as many hours
50:54
of public radio as anyone on this panel, I can assure you.
50:57
And it was a it was a great service.
50:59
That was 30 some years ago. Today in that same remote area,
51:05
I mean, you've got SiriusXM, you've got podcasts, there's
51:08
Internet access now. There's a whole menu of of media
51:14
options now. So, but over time, and I still
51:18
occasionally listen to NPR because I just want to hear what
51:21
they have to say. And I don't even recognize the
51:26
station anymore. It's not news.
51:29
It I feel like it's propaganda. I feel like there's
51:32
disinformation every time I listen to NPR and, you know, a
51:38
media entity like MSNBC or Huffington Post that in my
51:42
opinion, consistently spews disinformation.
51:45
They can do that. That's they're a private
51:47
company, but NPR gets federal funds.
51:51
And, and, you know, I have a problem with that because if
51:54
people in in Alaska, if all they have is public radio, then all
52:00
they know is what these headlines say.
52:03
And they're wrong about COVID-19.
52:05
And the headlines from the background don't have time to go
52:08
over all these headlines that are wrong about Russian
52:10
collusion, wrong, wrong about the Hunter Biden laptop, wrong.
52:18
And then there's a story about me and part of what we went
52:21
through on this committee during the Biden investigation, which
52:24
by the way ended with Joe Biden's last act as president,
52:28
the United States pardoned his entire family preemptively for
52:32
an 11 year period, which just so happened to be the 11 year
52:35
period that this committee investigated the Biden's that we
52:38
had subpoenaed bank records, I don't think.
52:40
NPR reported about the pardons, but they reported a lot about
52:45
how the there was number evidence of any wrongdoing and
52:48
things that just weren't true. In fact, there's a story NPR
52:53
lawmack lawmaker leading Hunter Biden House investigation
52:57
accused of owning a shell company.
53:00
Well, that's me, Miss Mayor. Do you, are you familiar with
53:04
that, that story that NPR wrote about me at the height of the
53:08
Biden investigation when, when you all were disputing every
53:12
aspect of our investigation that is 100% factual.
53:17
We have hundreds of pages of evidence, hundreds of pages of
53:22
bank records, hundreds of pages of emails.
53:25
Do you remember the story that that NPR wrote about about me
53:28
saying I had a shell company? Congressman, I was not at NPR at
53:32
the time and I'm unfamiliar with where do.
53:34
You get your sources on something like that's a very
53:37
serious accusation because we're investigating a president and
53:41
his family who had 28 shell companies.
53:44
I have an LLC, had five properties in it.
53:47
It's in my financial disclosure form.
53:49
I've gone into great detail, given lots of interviews, but
53:53
but people that listen to NPR, they're totally disinformed on
54:00
the truth. And and, you know, I have a
54:03
problem with that because you get federal funds.
54:06
And I do believe there was a role for public radio 30 years
54:10
ago, maybe 20 years ago, maybe five years ago.
54:14
But because of technology today, I don't think there's a role for
54:18
public radio anymore. And I think you've abused the
54:22
privilege that that you had with receiving federal funds.
54:27
Explain that because these headlines here are not true.
54:31
This is disinformation on on some huge topics.
54:35
OK. Do you want to dispute anything
54:38
that I said in the in the remaining 30 seconds?
54:40
Thank. You, Congressman, first of all,
54:42
I want to recognize your concerns.
54:44
One of the first things that I did in coming in in May was to
54:47
beef up our editorial standards. I directed my editor in chief,
54:51
who, by the way, why is? NPR even doing editorials.
54:54
I'm so I'm so sorry, do editorials.
54:56
I don't mean editorial in terms of opinion.
54:58
Editorial you even. Need a pin?
55:00
But what does it matter with the P if you're if you're if you're
55:03
a readily funded entity that's supposed to provide the news?
55:08
Could you not? Provide the news of course of.
55:12
Course, Congressman, I mean editorial standards for our
55:14
journalism was to beef up our editorial practices, bringing in
55:18
more editors to make sure that we have more points of view
55:21
reflected in every story. I've engaged in a number of
55:25
actions and. My time's expired.
55:27
I've lost confidence in public radio.
55:29
I don't think, Madam Chair, they should get a pity of federal
55:32
funds yield back. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
55:35
I now recognize Mr. Garcia from California for 5 minutes.
55:39
Well, thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
55:41
I want to 1st begin by thanking all of our witnesses that are
55:44
here today. I know that there's a lot we
55:47
should be discussing right now at this hearing.
55:49
We've, of course, had some pretty shocking security
55:51
breaches that were just starting about through about a lot of our
55:54
national security officials. We know that peak headset should
55:57
be removed from office or should resign.
56:00
We have Donald Trump, who, of course is crashing the stock
56:03
market. He's taken away millions,
56:05
millions of programs and hurting people across this country to
56:10
fund tax giveaways to billionaires.
56:12
And our constituents can't access their Social Security
56:15
benefits. Now, I think actually Chairwoman
56:18
Green supports everything that the Trump administration is
56:21
actually doing. So instead of a hearing of a
56:24
serious hearing, we're here to attack NPR and PBS.
56:29
So let's get right into it. Now, Miss Kerger, the American
56:34
people want to know, is Elmo now or has he ever been a member of
56:39
the Communist Party of the United States?
56:41
A yes or no no. Now, Are you sure, Miss Kerger?
56:44
Because he's obviously red. Well, he is a puppet, but no
56:48
now. That's not all.
56:50
He also has a very dangerous message about sharing and
56:54
helping each other. He's indoctrinating our kids
56:56
that sharing is caring. Now, maybe he's part of a major
56:59
socialist plot and maybe that's why the chairwoman is having
57:03
this hearing today. But let's talk about somebody
57:05
else. Let's talk about cookie Monster.
57:07
Now we know that Health Secretary RFK Junior is coming
57:10
out against fast food and baked goods.
57:13
Are we silencing pro cookie voters?
57:16
Yes or no, Miss Carter? But cookies are a sometime food.
57:21
Thank you. Now, I, I, I agree with you.
57:23
And let's also talk about the most important maybe character
57:26
on Sesame Street. This is actually Big Bird.
57:29
Now, Mr. Herger, since Elon Musk actually fired USDA workers who
57:33
have been working on the bird flu, does it make sense to also
57:36
fire Big Bird? Yes or no?
57:40
We would like to keep Big Bird I.
57:43
I completely agree with you. And now it gets it gets even
57:45
worse. Now, this is actually a, a tweet
57:48
that Big Bird actually sent out about the COVID-19 vaccine,
57:52
encouraging folks to actually get their vaccination, which of
57:55
course we believe in vaccines. Now, perhaps the reason why
57:59
we're having this hearing is because our chairwoman, Miss
58:00
Green has actually said some really negative things about
58:03
getting vaccinations. And that's perhaps is why we are
58:07
here. And so we support Big Bird being
58:09
pro vaccine and promoting vaccines across this country.
58:12
Now, I will admit, though, the extreme liberal agenda that
58:16
you're all pushing, I think doesn't stop there.
58:18
This, of course, is Bert and Ernie.
58:20
Now, these two guys actually live together.
58:23
They're friends, They're supportive of each other.
58:26
Now, that might be triggering to our chairwoman and and someone
58:30
this committee, and perhaps that's also why we're here
58:32
today. Miss Kerger, an important
58:34
question. Are Bert and Ernie part of an
58:36
extreme homosexual agenda? No thank.
58:40
You miss Kerger and thank you for being a good sport.
58:43
Now, I'm obviously using some humor here, but the fact that
58:46
we're sitting here today talking about defunding public
58:48
television is actually not funny at a time where we can't agree
58:52
on basic facts. And while the Free Press is
58:55
under attack, we need public media like PBS and NPR more than
58:59
ever. A large majority of Americans
59:02
say they trust PBS, and that's exactly why extremists are
59:06
trying to tear it down. Public broadcasting is a tool
59:09
for education, for emergencies and a cherished part of our
59:12
national fabric. We get huge benefits from a tiny
59:16
federal investment. The majority and our chairwoman
59:20
should drop this attempt to silence media voices they don't
59:23
like. So the message I think today is
59:25
very, very simple. If we're going to get rid of any
59:28
puppeteers, we should get rid of the one that's actually
59:31
controlling Donald Trump, fire Elon Musk, and save Elmo.
59:35
And with that I yield back. I now recognize Mr. Cloud from
59:43
Texas for 5 minutes. Thank you, Chairwoman.
59:49
NPR fancies itself as a nonpartisan news outlet.
59:54
Public information outlet even says that we should consider all
59:58
things. All things are considered.
59:59
Yet their history of political bias has shown that there are a
1:00:02
number of things they have not considered.
1:00:04
They asked us not to consider that the Hunter Biden laptop was
1:00:07
real. They dismissed the what was
1:00:09
always the most probable theory of the COVID lab leak from
1:00:13
Wuhan. They interviewed Russia
1:00:16
collusion hoaxster Adam Schiff 25 times, who claimed to have a
1:00:19
vault of information in his office.
1:00:22
Leading to the impeachment of President Trump, which of
1:00:24
course, we now know was all fraudulent.
1:00:28
I'd like to submit for the record an article by Uri
1:00:31
Berlinger. I've been at NPR for 25 years.
1:00:34
Here's how we lost America's trust.
1:00:37
Without objection, so. NPR, unfortunately, has lost
1:00:40
much of the the audience that they used to have, and now they
1:00:44
have very partisan audience because of this.
1:00:48
Who do they bring in to fix it? They bring in Miss Mayhair who
1:00:50
has a history and of common in commentary of promoting Marxist
1:00:56
ideology, including critical theory, said we should not use
1:01:00
the terms boy or girl, Has called our president a deranged,
1:01:03
racist sociopath and said that our reverence for the truth has
1:01:07
become a distraction that is preventing us from finding
1:01:11
consensus and getting important things done.
1:01:13
And one could look at that and think that maybe in your view
1:01:17
promoting group think is more important than finding the
1:01:19
truth. I thought we like diversity of
1:01:21
ideas especially and and that as an online encyclopedia that you
1:01:27
used to manage activism was more important than accuracy.
1:01:31
Now, I had an uncle who used to say that you should never let
1:01:34
the truth get in the way of find of a good story.
1:01:37
And while that was humorous when we were talking about weekend
1:01:39
fishing expeditions, when we're talking about news and
1:01:42
information and encyclopedias and things that are of national
1:01:46
importance, I find that very troubling.
1:01:49
Now, you are here managing NPR, which is in part federally
1:01:52
funded. Can we expect that you will
1:01:54
bring the same lack of reverence for truth to your management of
1:01:57
NPR? Thank you, Congressman.
1:02:00
First of all, I do want to say that NPR acknowledges that we
1:02:03
were mistaken and failing to cover the Hunter Biden laptop
1:02:05
story more aggressively and sooner.
1:02:08
Our current editorial leadership, Luhan, We recognize
1:02:12
that we were reporting at the time, but we acknowledge that
1:02:14
the new CIA evidence is worthy of coverage and have covered it.
1:02:18
What have you done to clean up the bias before you?
1:02:21
You've mentioned I wasn't there for that.
1:02:23
What are you doing to clean up and make sure that we have?
1:02:26
Absolutely. Thank you, Congressman.
1:02:28
As I mentioned, I came in in May Mr. Berliner published his story
1:02:32
2 weeks into my tenure regarding stories that had happened prior.
1:02:35
I wish that I had had the opportunity to speak with Mr.
1:02:37
Berliner. I would have loved to have had
1:02:39
him engage and come back to us with some suggestions as to what
1:02:42
we could do editorially in order to address what he perceived as
1:02:45
bias. Now you've had a long history,
1:02:47
including the the thing that I mentioned about lack of
1:02:51
reverence for truth and how reverence for truth.
1:02:54
You've even talked about the 1st Amendment kind of getting in the
1:02:56
way of what you wanted to get done.
1:02:59
And and then you're wanting us to believe that NPR is now
1:03:02
taking this non biased approach. I mean, where was the come to
1:03:05
Jesus moment for you? I guess that has turned you
1:03:08
around and that we can trust the American taxpayer dollars with
1:03:12
your leadership of NPR I. So appreciate the opportunity to
1:03:15
perhaps clarify some things. My talk about truth was really
1:03:19
referencing the way that people use truth to refer to belief as
1:03:23
opposed to facts. And my encouragement was that we
1:03:25
focus on facts with regards to the 1st Amendment.
1:03:29
That's not what your comments said.
1:03:30
Your comments said that truth was getting the way of getting
1:03:33
things done and that you were prioritizing what you wanted to
1:03:35
get done over truth. My.
1:03:38
And that's really unfortunate. I want to go to a different
1:03:41
context because you're allowed to have your political opinion.
1:03:44
Any news organization should be going after the truth.
1:03:48
That's what we want and expect out of news organizations.
1:03:50
But certainly a media platform can can have whatever opinion it
1:03:54
wants in a free society. The question for us today as a
1:03:58
committee is whether or not the taxpayers should be forced to
1:04:00
pay for this kind of thing. Mr. Gonzalez, I wanted to to, to
1:04:05
get your take on this about why the corporate public
1:04:09
broadcasting, is it still relevant today?
1:04:12
I mean, we're in a different context than we were in the 60s
1:04:15
where maybe not every home had a television.
1:04:17
Now many of them have multiple televisions and certainly we
1:04:21
most have a screen in their pocket.
1:04:24
Most times during the day. I'm I have 3 here on my desk.
1:04:28
And so it seems like we're in a different context of where could
1:04:30
we possibly get the news today or information.
1:04:32
Could you speak to the importance or lack thereof, of
1:04:37
the corporation of public broadcasting in the context of
1:04:39
of where we are today in society?
1:04:41
Yeah, right. When it came on after the
1:04:43
passage of the 67th Public Broadcasting Act in the early
1:04:47
70s, there were only three networks.
1:04:50
We had Crock Kite, Recenter and the other guy and and PBS added
1:04:54
by a third the number of networks that we had.
1:04:57
That's not the case today. And as far as education, which
1:05:00
has been diminished. And by the way, I believe that
1:05:02
Sesame Street was sold to HBO 10 years ago.
1:05:06
But but as, as far as the number, the educational value,
1:05:10
we have an unending stream of educational content online.
1:05:15
I could, I could reel off a number of websites and that
1:05:18
people can access YouTube channels where kids of all
1:05:23
income levels can access educational content.
1:05:27
So it's, but basically, as I said in my testimony, it goes
1:05:32
back to the basic unfairness that conservatives for 50 years
1:05:36
have been saying, but you're completely biased.
1:05:40
And they have the audacity to say, oh, no, we're not.
1:05:43
And, and, and you have to just pay us.
1:05:45
And it's it's, it's just that's that is the basic.
1:05:48
The the gentleman's time has expired.
1:05:50
Thank you. Mr. Gonzalez, I ask you, I ask
1:05:54
unanimous consent to enter into the record a an article
1:05:59
published today by Yuri Berliner about NPR basically saying that
1:06:04
the bias has not changed. Madam Chair, I also have a
1:06:08
unanimous, unanimous consent request from the Members who are
1:06:11
at Mr. Grijalva's funeral Mass this morning asking to submit
1:06:16
into the record this letter of support for federal funding from
1:06:20
West Without. Objection.
1:06:22
Which is Kentucky radio, which is where Mr. Comer wrote his
1:06:26
without. Objection.
1:06:27
So ordered director. Thank you.
1:06:30
I now recognize the gentleman Mr. Kassar from Texas for 5
1:06:35
minutes. Good morning.
1:06:39
Mr. Gonzalez, you wrote the proposal to defund NPRPBS and
1:06:44
public broadcasting for Project 2025.
1:06:48
Can you answer a few questions for me?
1:06:50
How many millions of dollars a month do taxpayers spend for
1:06:54
Daniel Tiger to play golf? I have no idea who the answer is
1:06:59
done. To your knowledge, has Miss
1:07:01
Piggy ever been caught trying to funnel billions of dollars in
1:07:05
government contracts to herself and to her companies?
1:07:08
That's a silly question. Well, the answer is no.
1:07:11
How about Arthur the aardvark? Has he ever fired independent
1:07:14
government watchdogs who are investigating his companies?
1:07:18
The answer is no, Madam Chair, I'm told we're here to talk
1:07:21
about government efficiency, but Daniel Tiger has not blown $10
1:07:25
million of taxpayer money to play golf with his friends.
1:07:29
But Donald Trump has, just at the beginning of his
1:07:31
administration. Miss Piggy hasn't been caught
1:07:34
funneling billions of dollars in government contracts to herself,
1:07:38
but Elon Musk has. And Arthur has not fired
1:07:42
independent government watchdogs investigating him and his
1:07:45
companies. But Elon Musk has fired at least
1:07:48
five. So once again, my Republican
1:07:51
colleagues are dragging in a scapegoat, this time PBS and
1:07:55
NPR, to try to distract from the fact that Trump and Musk are
1:08:00
robbing working people. It's Sesame Street that's making
1:08:04
things expensive. It's Mr. Rogers that's blowing
1:08:07
taxpayer money. It's listeners like you.
1:08:10
It's absurd. The total funding for public
1:08:13
broadcasting is just one sixth the amount that Elon Musk's
1:08:18
companies make off of the government every single year.
1:08:21
But you will not see Elon Musk being grilled by this committee.
1:08:25
I've seen a lot. But pointing the finger at Elmo
1:08:29
to cover for Elon Musk might be a new low for Miss Marjorie
1:08:34
Taylor Green's committee. I don't think Americans are
1:08:37
buying it. Here's what I think we should be
1:08:40
having a hearing about. After Trump and Musk took over
1:08:44
the government, reporters noticed that the State
1:08:46
Department was trying to funnel 400 million taxpayer dollars to
1:08:52
Tesla. The State Department said it's
1:08:54
an old contract. No news here.
1:08:56
But because of a brave whistleblower and an NPR
1:08:59
reporter, they exposed the corruption and the lies.
1:09:03
Madam Chairwoman, if we want to look into waste, fraud and
1:09:05
abuse, why not look into that? Elon Musk, who's running Cabinet
1:09:10
meetings, who's running the White House, was trying to
1:09:12
funnel money to himself. So let's stop investigating
1:09:15
Cookie Monster and start investigating how the Trump
1:09:18
administration lied about this and was trying to funnel money
1:09:22
to their biggest political supporter.
1:09:24
Maybe you're trying to defund NPR because they expose this
1:09:28
kind of corruption. And if Republicans were serious
1:09:31
about investigating waste, fraud and abuse, my colleagues would
1:09:34
admit that Big Bird is not the problem.
1:09:37
Big Tech is Big Pharma is Big insurance companies are.
1:09:42
Elon Musk's companies make billions, $3 billion a year off
1:09:46
of government contracts. That's six times the money that
1:09:49
goes to all of public broadcasting.
1:09:51
Private insurers and Medicare Advantage overcharged taxpayers
1:09:55
$83 billion just last year. That could pay for public
1:09:59
broadcasting 160 times over. The four and a half trillion
1:10:05
dollar tax cut for the ultra wealthy that Republicans on this
1:10:08
committee are trying to push through.
1:10:10
That would pay for public broadcasting 9000 times over.
1:10:13
There is money to pay not just for PBS and NPR, but health care
1:10:17
for every American, tuition free trade school and Community
1:10:20
College for every American to end homelessness on the streets
1:10:24
of our cities. But my Republican colleagues
1:10:26
don't want to talk about the corporate waste, fraud and abuse
1:10:30
because those corporations fund the Republicans campaigns.
1:10:33
So instead they want to shut down educational programming for
1:10:36
kids and their families, and they want to shut down local
1:10:39
radio stations. To borrow a phrase from Sesame
1:10:42
Street, the letter of the day is C, and it stands for corruption.
1:10:47
Look, in my home city of Austin, TX, we have Austin City Limits,
1:10:51
which decade after decade after decade has chronicled American
1:10:55
Music. And if they had a bad season and
1:10:58
it was private TV, they just would have shut it down and we
1:11:00
wouldn't have had decade after decade after decade of Austin
1:11:04
city limits. That's the amazing thing about
1:11:07
public broadcasting. I have a lot of public housing
1:11:10
residents in the San Antonio side of my district, and when I
1:11:13
talk to them and they hear about what's going on in Washington,
1:11:15
DC, they talk about Texas Public Radio.
1:11:18
And I just heard my colleagues talking about educational
1:11:21
programming for kids on YouTube. That stuff is loaded with ads
1:11:25
and also on other forms of private television.
1:11:27
They're selling you and your kids stuff, making people feel
1:11:30
bad. They're trying to make a profit
1:11:32
off of you. That's, you know, that's why I
1:11:35
got sat in front of Mr. Rogers, because you got to learn
1:11:38
something and they weren't just trying to sell you junk.
1:11:41
It's better for our kids. It's better for our families,
1:11:44
and we should actually be supporting public broadcasting
1:11:46
instead of this stuff. Madam Chair, leave Elmo alone.
1:11:49
Bring Elon in for questioning instead.
1:11:52
I now recognize Mr. Timmons from South Carolina for 5 minutes.
1:11:57
Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank the witnesses for being
1:11:59
here today. I'm going to begin by saying
1:12:00
this. We don't want to shut down NPR,
1:12:03
PBS, but we have $36 trillion in debt and we have run a $1.8
1:12:08
trillion annual deficit. And we are scouring all
1:12:12
government spending, not just Democrat priorities, but
1:12:15
Republican priorities too. We're going to be going through
1:12:17
the defense budget. We're going to be making sure
1:12:20
that we are spending our taxpayer dollars wisely because
1:12:22
we have an existential threat. We have an existential threat.
1:12:25
We cannot continue down this path financially.
1:12:27
So we do not want to shut you down, but we cannot continue
1:12:30
down this path. And so if our debt is part of
1:12:33
the reason we're here, I think another part of the reason we're
1:12:35
here re evaluating your role and the government's use of taxpayer
1:12:40
dollars to partially fund your institutions is because
1:12:43
technology has changed everything.
1:12:45
We are not living in 1967 and the Internet has has changed our
1:12:52
society. We have such increased social
1:12:54
interconnectedness and there are various options for people to
1:12:59
get news and to get disinformation or information,
1:13:03
whatever you want to get. So those are the two kind of
1:13:06
reasons I want to start with. And that's probably half the
1:13:08
problem we're here for. The other half is your perceived
1:13:12
bias and your content moderation and the manner in which you are
1:13:19
violating journalistic integrity.
1:13:22
And I'll say this, NPR, you have been far worse at this.
1:13:26
Miss Kroger. You have done a much better job
1:13:28
at this. But we still have some issues
1:13:29
we're going to talk about. Miss Mark, do you think that the
1:13:33
public statements you've made on social media create a challenge
1:13:38
in your leadership for what should be an unbiased public
1:13:42
information system? Do you think that your past
1:13:44
comments, I'll give you better question, did they come up in
1:13:47
your job interview? Like do you see a problem?
1:13:51
Congressman, thank you for the question.
1:13:52
No, I they never came up in my job interview.
1:13:55
If you're a. Rabid progressive, like, and do
1:13:58
you not think it's a problem that your political leanings
1:14:02
make it seem to the American people that, that you're not
1:14:05
biased and you're not doing your job because you agree that your
1:14:08
job is to have journalistic integrity, right?
1:14:10
Absolutely. But there is a strong firewall
1:14:12
between The Newsroom and anything that I Let's talk about
1:14:15
the. Newsroom, you have 87 registered
1:14:17
Democrats, not a single Republican in your in your
1:14:20
editor boards. I mean, how does that work to
1:14:23
give us the perception that you're doing your job of
1:14:26
actually delivering unbiased information?
1:14:28
I. Would agree with you that that
1:14:29
number is a concern if it is accurate.
1:14:31
I do believe that we need to have journalists who represent
1:14:34
the full breadth of the American Society so that we can report
1:14:37
well for all Americans well. I think that you are failing.
1:14:40
I realize you've only been there for a year, but I just really
1:14:43
think that while it is a small portion of your budget, you very
1:14:46
much should expect to restructure your revenue streams
1:14:50
because I don't think that NPR's necessarily worth saving.
1:14:54
And I'm going to go on to Miss Kerger.
1:14:56
I will say this. You have been very professional
1:14:58
and you have been there for decades, and I think that you've
1:15:01
done a fairly good job over your tenure.
1:15:03
But I want to ask you a very simple question.
1:15:06
In retrospect, do you think that it was inappropriate to put the
1:15:10
the drag queen on the kids show? Do you think that was a mistake?
1:15:15
The drag queen was actually not on any of our kids shows.
1:15:18
The image that that Chairman Taylor Green showed was from a
1:15:24
project that our New York City station did with the New York
1:15:27
City Department of Education. It did not air.
1:15:31
It was a it was a digital project they did for the
1:15:34
Department of Education. It only appeared on our website
1:15:37
for you to do. With.
1:15:38
PBS Do you think that that human?
1:15:40
I mean it. Was not a PBS.
1:15:41
It was not for PBS. It was mistakenly put it on our
1:15:44
website by our I'm sorry, I don't mean to talk over you.
1:15:48
It was mistakenly put on our website by our New York City
1:15:51
station. It was not intended for national
1:15:53
distribution. It was immediately pulled down.
1:15:55
It was never broadcast. Do you think that you should
1:15:57
publish something that calls trees racist?
1:16:00
Is that in retrospect? Should you have published that?
1:16:05
I'm not sure what you're referring to you.
1:16:07
Had a segment that call it was called racist trees and it was
1:16:11
AI mean. We've already referenced a
1:16:12
number of times. So I mean, do you think trees
1:16:14
can be racist? I guess that's a good.
1:16:15
One, I don't know what you're talking about.
1:16:17
I've never heard of what you're referring to.
1:16:19
All right, well, but I'd be happy to look into it.
1:16:22
I guess last, do you think that it's appropriate to expose
1:16:26
children to issues of trans transitioning?
1:16:31
Do you see a problem with that? Is that something you should
1:16:35
avoid that? Is not anything on any of our
1:16:37
children's programs at all. Miss Kerger, you have done a far
1:16:41
better job here today, and we're going to continue to have this
1:16:44
conversation. But again, we have $36 trillion
1:16:47
in debt, and we're trying to figure out how to make sure that
1:16:50
our kids and our grandkids have an opportunity at the American
1:16:52
dream because if we don't change course financially, they won't.
1:16:56
Thank you. I yield back.
1:16:57
Thank you. I now recognize the gentlewoman
1:17:01
from Texas, Miss Crockett for 5 minutes.
1:17:03
Thank you SO. Much It should not be surprising
1:17:06
that the president is doing everything possible to make it
1:17:08
more difficult for the media to hold him accountable and for the
1:17:12
public to be informed about his reckless and illegal behavior.
1:17:15
Yet here we are. The Republicans have actually
1:17:18
organized this goofy hearing to try to convince the American
1:17:21
people that PBS and NPR are, quote, domestic terrorist or
1:17:25
domestic threats. My.
1:17:27
Apologies not the incompetent, unqualified Secretary of Defense
1:17:31
who's texting war plant, who's texting war plans to journalist,
1:17:36
but it's it's y'all PBS and NPR the American people are supposed
1:17:40
to be worried about. You can't make this up.
1:17:43
It's. As stupid as it sounds, the
1:17:45
American people should be worried about the president
1:17:48
threatening to investigate NBC for treason for reporting on his
1:17:52
felony convictions or arresting reporters and stripping networks
1:17:56
of their licenses for not saying nice things about him or not
1:18:00
using Gulf of America. The Republicans witness, Mr.
1:18:04
Gonzalez went so far as to suggest that because NPR and PBS
1:18:09
reported on the murder of George Floyd, they, quote, represent a
1:18:12
danger to our physical health as well as to civic health of of
1:18:17
our body politics. Miss Mayor, do you think
1:18:21
reporting on the murder of George Floyd and highlighting
1:18:23
instances of systemic racism is a domestic threat to America?
1:18:30
Thank you, Congresswoman. I believe it's our
1:18:32
responsibility to report on all issues of interest to the
1:18:34
American public. Thank.
1:18:35
You so much miss. Karger, what about you?
1:18:40
I agree. I think it's important for us to
1:18:42
report on the on the important news of the day.
1:18:45
So. Let's talk about the critical
1:18:47
role of public media. During his first term, President
1:18:49
Trump's own Department of Homeland Security highlighted
1:18:52
the importance of public broadcasting's role in public
1:18:55
safety. In 2018, his administration
1:18:57
stated, quote, PBS and local public television stations play
1:19:01
a crucial role in protecting communities by delivering
1:19:04
essential information to individuals and 1st responders.
1:19:08
These benefits are all made possible by public broadcasting
1:19:12
stations unique reach, reliability and role across
1:19:16
America, and are especially vital in rural and underserved
1:19:20
areas. Madam.
1:19:21
Chairwoman, I would ask unanimous consent.
1:19:23
I seek unanimous consent to enter into into the record the
1:19:27
28th without objection. So ordered.
1:19:30
And, Madam Chair, I also seek unanimous consent to enter into
1:19:33
the record the 2019 report titled Modernizing the Nation's
1:19:36
Public Alert and Warning System from Trump's without objection.
1:19:39
So ordered. In the report, FEMA encouraged,
1:19:42
quote, the use of public broadcast capabilities to expand
1:19:45
alert, warning, and communication capabilities to
1:19:48
fill gaps in rural and underserved areas.
1:19:51
Mr. Olman, what's the more significant domestic threat,
1:19:54
reporting the murder of George Floyd or dismantling most of
1:19:57
America's emergency communication systems?
1:20:00
Can you please repeat the question for me, Congresswoman?
1:20:04
Which one is more of a threat, reporting the murder of George
1:20:07
Floyd or dismantling most of America's emergency
1:20:10
communication systems? Dismantling the emergency
1:20:15
systems and. Isn't it true that in Alas,
1:20:18
Borough Alaska is the only. I'm sorry and isn't it true that
1:20:22
KB RW AM in Borough Alaska is the only broadcast service
1:20:28
available in an area of more than 90,000 square miles that.
1:20:32
Is correct. It's also the North Slope where
1:20:35
the majority of all the oil production that comes from
1:20:38
Alaska is takes place. Thank.
1:20:40
You so much and isn't it true that without these stations
1:20:42
broadcast Americans in rural communities would lack access to
1:20:47
life saving information and public safety alerts that.
1:20:50
Is correct so. In your opinion, would
1:20:51
eliminating funding for stations in rural America like WN GH
1:20:55
Channel 18 in the chairwoman's district hurt Americans?
1:20:59
It would hurt Americans, Yes, in.
1:21:01
Fact, Georgia Public Broadcasting serves as the
1:21:03
official distributor of evacuation route information
1:21:06
during state ordered evacuations and the chairwoman is here
1:21:09
advocating to strip their funding.
1:21:10
Look, the DOGE agenda isn't about government efficiency.
1:21:13
It's about breeding corruption at the expense of the safety of
1:21:16
the American people, particularly Americans living in
1:21:19
rural or remote parts of the country.
1:21:21
They don't care about public safety, they don't care about
1:21:24
Emergency Management, and they don't care about free speech,
1:21:27
all of which are harming American people.
1:21:29
In fact, I'm a skip off real quick because they have tried to
1:21:32
come for you, Miss Mayor. And I just want to clarify, you
1:21:34
did not work for NPR when those statements were made, did you?
1:21:38
That is correct and. To be clear.
1:21:41
Free speech is not about whatever it is that y'all want
1:21:44
somebody to say, and the idea that you want to shut down
1:21:47
everybody that is not Fox News is bullshit.
1:21:51
We need to stop playing because that's what y'all are doing in
1:21:54
here. You don't want to hear the
1:21:55
opinions and any of anybody else.
1:21:57
And the Constitution says Congress shall make no law
1:22:01
respecting or establishing. Of religion, or prohibiting the
1:22:05
free exercise thereof, or abridging the.
1:22:08
Gentlewoman's time has expired. The gentlewoman's time has
1:22:11
expired. Madam Chair, one, can I put them
1:22:15
into the record? Unanimous consent, please.
1:22:17
Without objection, so ordered. Thank you.
1:22:20
I'd like to put under this NPR article Would Biden preemptive
1:22:24
pardons for family members could mean for presidential powers if
1:22:27
I could submit to the right? Without objection, so ordered.
1:22:29
I now recognize the gentleman from Ohio, Jim Jordan, for 5
1:22:33
minutes. Thank.
1:22:34
You, Madam Chair, Miss Maher, who is Uri Berliner?
1:22:39
Mr. Berliner is a former senior editor.
1:22:42
That's all. A former senior business editor
1:22:44
for NPR How long do. You work at NPR I.
1:22:46
Believe he was there just over 25 years, 25.
1:22:49
Years award-winning journalist. Did you win any awards?
1:22:52
I our time to Peabody. Award.
1:22:54
That's pretty important. Isn't it?
1:22:56
That is a pretty. Distinguished journalist, right?
1:22:58
Certainly. And I wrote, he wrote a long
1:23:00
story about what you do at NPR. Is NPR biased?
1:23:05
Congressman, I have never seen any instance of never of
1:23:08
political bias determining editorial decisions, no.
1:23:12
Well, Miss Burt, Mr. Berliner, in his story a couple last year,
1:23:18
wrote. I've in the DC area editorial
1:23:22
positions at NPR, He said he found 87 registered Democrats, 0
1:23:28
Republicans. Is that accurate?
1:23:30
We do not track the numbers or the voter registration, but I
1:23:33
find that was award. Winning journalist who worked 25
1:23:36
years at NPR. Mr. Berliner, Was he lying when
1:23:39
he wrote that? I.
1:23:40
Am not presuming such I just don't have we don't track that
1:23:44
information about our journalists 80.
1:23:45
Seven to zero and you're not biased.
1:23:47
I think that is concerning if those numbers are accurate.
1:23:51
Concerned. I mean, it wasn't 4443, wasn't
1:23:54
6027, it wasn't 7017, it wasn't even eighty to seven.
1:23:59
It was 87 Democrats, 0 Republicans and you say NPR is
1:24:05
not biased. How about the big stories over
1:24:08
the last few years, according to Mr. Berliner?
1:24:10
Again, he wrote on in the Trump Russia story he wrote at NPR.
1:24:15
We hit star wagon to Trump's most visible antagonist,
1:24:19
Representative Adam Schiff. They said they interviewed him
1:24:22
25 times. That accurate?
1:24:24
I was not there at the time, but those numbers sound accurate.
1:24:27
Those sound accurate. But then he said when the
1:24:28
Mueller report came out and they said Mueller said, Robert
1:24:31
Mueller said he found no evidence of collusion.
1:24:33
He said Russiagate faded from our programming.
1:24:37
Is that accurate? Again, I was not there at the
1:24:39
time. I'm not.
1:24:39
I couldn't say. You couldn't say I.
1:24:42
Was not at NPR at the time. Didn't.
1:24:43
Prepare for that. You knew we were going to ask
1:24:45
you about this guy, didn't you? It's come up like 6000 times
1:24:47
already in the hearing I. Just didn't say whether it faded
1:24:50
from our coverage. How about?
1:24:52
This story, October 2020, New York Post had the Hunter Biden
1:24:55
laptop story and one of those editors, I guess one of those 87
1:25:00
Democrat editors said this. We don't want to waste our time
1:25:04
on stories that are not really stories.
1:25:06
We don't want to waste the listeners and readers times on
1:25:09
stories that are just pure distractions without a pure
1:25:11
distraction story. Our current editorial leadership
1:25:15
believes that that was a mistake, As do I, Yeah.
1:25:18
The whole country knows that was a mistake.
1:25:20
Definitely impacted the election or I think it's certainly
1:25:22
impacted the election. How about the COVID origin
1:25:25
origin story? That's pretty big story too,
1:25:27
right? Mr. Berliner said.
1:25:29
We became fervent members of the team Natural Origin, even
1:25:32
declaring that the lab leak was debunked by scientists.
1:25:35
Turns out, though, the lab leak is what most people think
1:25:37
actually caused the COVID virus. Sorry, sorry.
1:25:41
Is there a question there there? Is you guys were oh for three
1:25:44
on, on the three, the three of the biggest stories in the last
1:25:47
five years. You guys were oh for three.
1:25:49
And yet you maintain that NPR is not biased.
1:25:53
Congressman, I do not believe we are politically biased.
1:25:55
No, we are a nonpartisan organization.
1:25:57
Nonpartisan organization. What's happening to your
1:25:59
listeners over the last five years?
1:26:01
Went up, down or stayed the same.
1:26:03
It has gone up and down and is now going back up.
1:26:07
Well, I, I thought five years ago was at 60 million and you
1:26:10
said in your opening statement I think 43,000,000 that's.
1:26:13
Correct. So 43,000,000 now and it was at
1:26:15
60 million five years ago. I can do some math that looks
1:26:18
like it went down and. Is now going back up.
1:26:20
Is now. Going back up, yes it is.
1:26:22
How much is it went back up? It's from up A.
1:26:24
Couple of millions over the past oh so.
1:26:26
You went from 60 million to 41 million, now you're back up to
1:26:30
43 million. In a year's time, I'm very proud
1:26:33
of that growth, Sir. OK.
1:26:34
You're proud of that, that growth, OK, But over five years
1:26:36
it's went down 18,000,000 that. Is correct Sir, OK.
1:26:39
Should taxpayers subsidized NPR? I believe that taxpayers
1:26:43
subsidized local stations, Sir, that is the vast majority of
1:26:46
what I thought. You said you got 11,000,000 from
1:26:48
Corporation and Public Broadcasting which is taxpayer
1:26:50
fund and directly to you, right that.
1:26:52
Is to support the public and then local stations.
1:26:54
Get it from the Corporation of Public Broadcasting yet, right?
1:26:56
They get Tax 100. Million that goes to the Local
1:26:58
100. Million goes local stations and
1:27:00
then there's local stations buy back programming content from
1:27:02
you, so that money goes to local stations, comes back to you,
1:27:06
gets routed through the local stations.
1:27:07
All taxpayer money those. Fees are actually based on
1:27:09
private donations rather than on federal funding.
1:27:12
Well, we all know. Money's fungible, so some of it
1:27:14
gets put in there. Certainly we could.
1:27:16
We could agree that money is fungible.
1:27:18
What? More money for less listeners.
1:27:21
You fired the guy who pointed all this out, who said that you
1:27:24
were so biased to the left that you lost listeners, which is
1:27:26
actually happening, and you're here maintaining that.
1:27:28
Oh, you need, you need to continue to get taxpayer money.
1:27:30
I did. Not fire, Mr. Berliner, Sir.
1:27:33
OK, the guy that that left after all that understand, understand.
1:27:36
Are you fundraising off today's hearing?
1:27:39
Sir, I I believe that there was a message that went out earlier
1:27:43
today letting people know we were coming in.
1:27:44
Yes, yeah. And at the bottom of the
1:27:46
message, it said, donate now, right?
1:27:49
I don't recall the exact language, I'll show it.
1:27:51
To you right there it is donate now I mean I'm not against
1:27:53
fundraising. We all do it.
1:27:55
I mean, I get it, but it's, I assume this, this, this
1:27:58
fundraising is probably going to all the left listeners who were
1:28:02
subsidized content by the taxpayers.
1:28:05
And that's the. Gentleman's time is expired.
1:28:08
I yield back. I now recognize Miss Randall
1:28:11
from Washington for 5 minutes. Thank you so much.
1:28:18
You know, I I'm new to Congress. This is my first term, and I
1:28:26
came from a legislative body that didn't have quite as heated
1:28:33
debates in our committees, and we're generally fairly welcoming
1:28:39
to our folks joining us to testify.
1:28:43
So I want to say thank you to all of you for taking the time
1:28:47
out of your schedule to come and share your experience with all
1:28:51
of us and with the American people.
1:28:53
I'm grateful for your time and for the work that you do in
1:29:01
service of your communities and neighbors.
1:29:05
You know, American families used to get all the same news, right?
1:29:11
Folks would have access to a handful of news channels.
1:29:14
They would watch the same nightly news programs.
1:29:17
They would go from 1:00 to the other to the other, and we could
1:29:20
all agree on what was happening in our country.
1:29:27
We all used to operate from the same baseline of information,
1:29:30
but today it is no secret that we are operating in a much more
1:29:37
diversified and fractured media environment.
1:29:40
The content space, the use of AI generated content.
1:29:44
Americans now have to be able to discern for themselves whether
1:29:48
something they are hearing is true or not.
1:29:52
But investing in public media is a bedrock to our healthy,
1:29:57
critically informed and engaged public and our democracy.
1:30:02
And I know that my colleagues on the other side of the aisle have
1:30:07
argued over whether every piece of programming is in service of
1:30:11
the public. But I also want to point out
1:30:15
that, you know, in my fairly rural district, we have a lot of
1:30:21
areas that aren't served by broadband.
1:30:24
You know, a lot of folks who cannot easily access numerous
1:30:28
podcasts while they are out working on their property.
1:30:32
They, you know, have to maybe wait for something to download
1:30:35
when they're at home using maybe even a wired Internet
1:30:39
connection. Right there.
1:30:44
I lose. I'm in a dead zone for about an
1:30:46
hour and a half as I'm driving from one city to another in my
1:30:50
community. But public radio is broadly
1:30:56
accessible and it's important for, you know, folks counting on
1:31:02
the weather report for kids who are, you know, in pre
1:31:07
kindergarten, who are watching Elmo and learning to count and
1:31:12
do math. It's important for the young
1:31:15
people who, you know, we're home during COVID and we're able to
1:31:20
continue learning with the help of public broadcasting.
1:31:28
I think we have a lot of problems in this country, a lot
1:31:31
of problems that we should be tackling for regular Americans
1:31:36
who are struggling to afford to live, to afford housing, to
1:31:39
afford healthcare, to be able to.
1:31:44
Live. The lives that they dream of for
1:31:46
themselves and their children. I think we've got some national
1:31:50
security concerns that have been talked about a lot in this
1:31:53
committee, but I think talking about defunding public
1:31:59
broadcasting and public media is an egregious misuse of our time
1:32:05
here. Mr. Allman, when we talk about
1:32:13
cutting funds for the Corporation for Public
1:32:15
Broadcasting, we're talking about those local small stations
1:32:20
that rely on that money. 70% of Corporation for Public
1:32:25
Broadcasting funding goes directly to public radio.
1:32:29
I know you've worked in Tacoma in the past and kind of attest
1:32:33
to how some how rural some parts of Western Washington are.
1:32:36
It's not all Tacoma. What role do public media
1:32:41
stations like NPR and PBS play in supporting local stations?
1:32:46
What kind of programming do they provide the?
1:32:49
Local communities are at the heart of the work we do, as I
1:32:52
shared in my opening remarks. We talk about the people and the
1:32:55
places there. You bring up a memory of mine.
1:33:00
Chehalis, Aberdeen, Hokie mayor, Hoku area.
1:33:04
KBTC was the only public television station there.
1:33:07
You know about the struggles that that community was having
1:33:12
over a decade ago. Job loss, all kinds of terrible
1:33:17
economic situations. We provided educational services
1:33:20
there with a half, $1,000,000 local grant that we partnered
1:33:25
with the community on. It was incredible work.
1:33:27
We do the same thing in Alaska with military families,
1:33:31
homeschoolers, elementary schools.
1:33:34
Those are the pieces we provide. And then local news stories that
1:33:39
people can use about where they live and what they do.
1:33:43
That's what we do. That would be lost for a minute.
1:33:47
Thank. You so much, Madam Chair, yield
1:33:49
back. Thank you.
1:33:51
I now recognize the gentleman from Tennessee, Mr. Burchett,
1:33:54
for 5 minutes. Thank.
1:33:56
You chair Lady Miss Carter, is it true that HBO bought the
1:33:59
rights to Sesame Street? No, it did not.
1:34:03
It and developed Sesame Street, entered an arrangement with HBO
1:34:09
for a number of years and it was now.
1:34:10
The arrangement correct. Yes, which allowed us to get the
1:34:13
series for free during the period of that time.
1:34:16
How? Much money was transacted
1:34:18
during. I don't know.
1:34:19
Sesame Street is a private organization.
1:34:22
It is separate from ours. OK, Miss Meyer, what about Lee
1:34:27
Greenwood's God Bless the USA is propaganda?
1:34:31
I'm sorry, Sir, could you repeat the question?
1:34:33
What? About Lee Greenwood's God Bless
1:34:36
the USA is propaganda. I don't believe that is
1:34:39
propaganda, Sir. OK.
1:34:40
Well, in January, North County Public Radio, and that's a
1:34:43
subsidiary of NPR, had Daphne Brooks, who apparently is a
1:34:48
black feminism scholar, on its show where she it was hosted by
1:34:53
the host Brittany Lose. And it says, have you ever
1:34:56
watched something on TV and thought, OK, now this is
1:34:59
propaganda? Have you ever had that moment?
1:35:02
To which Daphne Brooks replied, Whenever I see Lee Greenwood
1:35:07
singing Proud to be an American. I believe that represents the
1:35:11
individual we interviewed on air and not the position did.
1:35:14
You say there's no bias on NPR. That is not a.
1:35:17
That is not a that. Is not a biased statement,
1:35:20
ma'am. That is not even it.
1:35:21
Both parties wrapped themselves around this song.
1:35:23
Every time there's a national conflict, Lee Greenwood sings it
1:35:28
and he does a beautiful job. But you say there there is no
1:35:31
bias in NPR that. Is that individuals opinion?
1:35:33
And she, of course is entitled to it.
1:35:35
But that is not the position of NPR, ma'am.
1:35:37
You said in your opening statement that that you were
1:35:40
going to be transformative, and I believe you've failed to do
1:35:44
that. Let me ask you why did you call
1:35:46
President Trump a fascist and a deranged racist sociopath in
1:35:50
2020? Congressman, I appreciate the
1:35:53
opportunity to address this. I regret those tweets.
1:35:55
I would not tweet them again today.
1:35:57
I they represented a time where I was reflecting on something
1:36:00
that I believe that the president had said rather than
1:36:03
who he is. I don't presume that anyone is a
1:36:05
racist Which. You don't believe anyone is a
1:36:08
racist? I don't.
1:36:09
Start by presuming anyone as a racist, Sir.
1:36:11
OK, as NPR, PBS ever conducted an internal review to assess
1:36:19
whether conservative or right leaning perspectives are fairly
1:36:22
representative news and programming.
1:36:26
Congressman, what we look at is the distribution of people who
1:36:29
listen to our work. And we can tell you, and I'm
1:36:31
proud to tell you that for our digital, our podcasts and our
1:36:35
website, the distribution of Americans who come to NPR does
1:36:40
reflect the political distribution of the nation.
1:36:42
In fact, the distribution on our websites, 33% of folks who come
1:36:47
are conservative versus 28% who are liberal, and the rest
1:36:50
identify as independent. So the largest group is
1:36:53
conservatives who come to NPR's websites.
1:36:55
So you. Believe that most Americans
1:36:57
think President Trump is a fascist and arranged race racist
1:37:00
sociopath. I don't believe that at all,
1:37:03
Sir. OK, ma'am, we.
1:37:08
Obviously are constantly looking at the voices that we bring
1:37:13
forward. We take to heart our commitment
1:37:15
to bringing forward perspectives from across the country.
1:37:19
Our programming comes from our local stations and I mentioned
1:37:22
in my opening comment the series that we did out of Arkansas
1:37:27
Southern Storytellers. That's just one little example.
1:37:30
10% of our schedule is news. The rest of it is either
1:37:34
children's programming or programming based on history to
1:37:38
give us all a collective expression.
1:37:40
And we're constantly looking to making sure that we're bringing
1:37:43
forward a diversity of viewpoints and perspectives and
1:37:47
experiences that really do make up the fabric of this country.
1:37:52
OK, NPR senior editor Leonard, it's been mentioned before, but
1:37:55
he said he was quoted to saying an open minded spirit no longer
1:37:59
exists with within NPR. And now predictably, we don't
1:38:03
have an audience that reflects America.
1:38:05
Yet you stated that that the audience does reflect America.
1:38:10
He was suspended without pay for five days for saying this.
1:38:13
And of course, he eventually resigned in April 2024.
1:38:18
You've also stated that federal funding is essential for NPR to
1:38:21
operate, but also claim only 1% of your funding comes from the
1:38:25
federal government, which is. Mr. Berliner was suspended for
1:38:28
the outside work policy, not for what he said Sir, in terms of
1:38:32
federal funding, The federal funds go to support our
1:38:35
operation of the public radio satellite system, which enables
1:38:38
all of our local stations to be able to communicate information
1:38:43
and broadcast, including stated. Earlier, ma'am, funding is very
1:38:46
fungible. It flows wherever it needs to.
1:38:49
I don't buy that argument. We.
1:38:51
Do I wonder? If any of the members the
1:38:53
committee would comment real quickly, would you agree that
1:38:56
Real America's Voice, Newsmax, Fox or News Nation?
1:39:00
If they were to see federal funds, would you all support
1:39:02
that? Yes or no, Mr. Allman?
1:39:07
Yes or no? I'd have to get back to you on
1:39:10
that, ma'am. Yeah.
1:39:12
I actually don't have an opinion about that.
1:39:14
Ma'am, I I don't have an opinion about that, Sir.
1:39:16
That would be Congress's decision.
1:39:18
Thank. You chair lady.
1:39:19
Thank you. I now recognize.
1:39:22
I now yield to the gentleman from California, Mr. Khanna, for
1:39:28
5 minutes. Thank you.
1:39:29
Madam Chair, and thank you for allowing me to wave on to the
1:39:32
committee. Mr. Gonzalez, I read with
1:39:35
interest your testimony. It was so angry, so I thought
1:39:39
I'd try to lighten things up a little bit.
1:39:42
Who are three of your favorite characters on Daniel Tiger or
1:39:47
what episodes do you are your favorites representing Connor?
1:39:52
Thank you very much for the opportunity to lighten up.
1:39:57
I again, I think I'm taking The Time Machine here.
1:40:01
Sesame Street went to Daniel Tiger.
1:40:03
Do you have some favorite characters?
1:40:04
Oh, the owl. Any.
1:40:06
No. None.
1:40:07
What? What does Ugga Mugga mean to
1:40:09
you? Nothing.
1:40:10
You don't. You've never heard the
1:40:11
expression Ugga mugga. Yeah, I don't think so.
1:40:13
No, it's it's affection. Have you have you ever watched a
1:40:16
Daniel Tiger show or know any families who watch a Daniel
1:40:19
Tiger show? I don't think so.
1:40:21
No. You've never watched one.
1:40:22
I've never seen Daniel Tiger. Sorry.
1:40:24
I thought. Do you Do you know what?
1:40:26
What? Daniel Tiger is a successor to.
1:40:29
And I don't know Daniel Tiger, so I don't know what he's no the
1:40:32
show what it's a successor to do you know?
1:40:34
No, you really don't know. I really.
1:40:36
No. I'm on the road from all of
1:40:37
history. It's a successor to Mr. Rogers.
1:40:40
Oh, there you go. OK.
1:40:40
Yeah. Mr. Rogers, I know.
1:40:42
OK. Do you are you familiar with his
1:40:44
1969 testimony? I am, he said.
1:40:47
I want to quote because it's one of my favorites.
1:40:50
I studied this actually going to school as some of the most
1:40:52
effective testimony in Congress, he said.
1:40:55
I give an expression of care every day to each child to help
1:40:58
him realize that he is unique. I end the program by saying
1:41:02
you've made this day a special day by just be your being you.
1:41:06
There's no person in the whole world like you and I like you
1:41:09
just the way you are. Senator Pastor was a hard headed
1:41:13
fiscal conservative, said he got goosebumps by that testimony and
1:41:18
it's what convinced him to fund the public broadcast.
1:41:22
You've said you wouldn't have funded it.
1:41:23
Do you think Senator Pastor made a mistake back then?
1:41:26
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I think I agree with Fred
1:41:29
Friendly who testified and said you would have voted against.
1:41:33
I would have voted yes. I don't think that you should
1:41:35
have state broadcasters. Now, what is the cost of public
1:41:39
broadcasting as a percent of the federal budget?
1:41:42
I don't know, but it is a come on, You're talking about the $36
1:41:45
trillion of debt, debt that we have.
1:41:47
You're saying this is a really important thing that we need to
1:41:50
cut you. You didn't what percent?
1:41:53
It's important in principle and it is.
1:41:55
It was principle is a different thing.
1:41:57
You're saying this is a effective strategy to cut debt
1:42:00
and you have no idea what it was. 5% of the discretionary
1:42:03
cuts in the GOP, It's .01%, right?
1:42:06
But it was 5% of the discretionary cuts in the 17
1:42:09
budget, .01% federal budget. That's one of the reasons
1:42:13
Senator Pastor said you know it's worth it in an investment
1:42:17
in American kids. Now you said Sesame Street is a
1:42:21
private organization. Reception is going private.
1:42:23
I didn't understand that because Sesame Workshop is a non profit.
1:42:26
What did you mean by private? Well, I mean it's a it's a
1:42:29
nonprofit. It's it's it's separate from,
1:42:31
but it gets public funding. What it did you were you talking
1:42:34
about the HBO thing? Yes.
1:42:37
Do you realize that HBO just cancelled with them?
1:42:40
And I I do yes. The reason they cancel them, and
1:42:42
I'm trying to explain why Senator Pastor funded this, and
1:42:46
if you talk to families who watch Daniel Tiger, maybe
1:42:48
appreciate it. The reason they cancelled it is
1:42:51
because it wasn't making a profit, say, because when you
1:42:53
try to do Daniel Tiger or Sesame Street and you try to do what
1:42:58
Mr. Rogers was talking about, helping the emotional and social
1:43:02
development of kids, it's not easy.
1:43:05
You got to hire people who are child psychologists.
1:43:08
You have to hire people who are educationalist.
1:43:10
A lot goes into this and HBO said, you know what, it's not
1:43:14
making money. We rather put on things that are
1:43:18
geared towards adults or that are going to be conflicts.
1:43:23
We aren't making money on this. And the whole reason, the whole
1:43:27
reason, Senator Pastor said that we're going to fund this.
1:43:30
I know you're kind of mocked in your testimony, the kids.
1:43:33
But the whole reason was that when you make programming for
1:43:36
children to help their social and emotional development, it
1:43:41
costs so much money to do, and it's a public good, then not
1:43:46
everything has to be about profit.
1:43:49
Do you have any idea what it takes to produce Daniel Tiger,
1:43:52
who all they hired? Did you ever try to figure it
1:43:54
out? No.
1:43:54
But I can tell you that the market said that it wasn't and
1:43:57
there wasn't enough demand for it.
1:43:59
And that's the reason why HBO got rid of it, right?
1:44:02
Because it wasn't enough demand. Yeah.
1:44:03
So are you. That's exactly the right point.
1:44:06
Are you saying that everything in American Society needs to be
1:44:08
driven by the profit motive? There is not enough demand on
1:44:13
getting ratings for things that help the social and economic
1:44:16
development of kids. But you know what?
1:44:18
Mr. Rogers understood what we've forgotten in this country.
1:44:21
Some things are more valuable than money.
1:44:23
At a time where a country is polarized, I wish we had a
1:44:26
little more empathy and caring. And that's not a partisan issue.
1:44:29
That's an American issue. And I would recommend you re
1:44:32
watch that testimony from Mr. Rogers.
1:44:34
I hope the whole country would watch it.
1:44:36
I have watched it and we are 30, six, $6 trillion in debt.
1:44:44
I now recognize the gentleman from Missouri, Mr. Burleson, for
1:44:48
5 minutes. Thank.
1:44:49
You, Madam Chair, you know, I think that it's important to
1:44:53
bring this conversation into the context that needs to be said,
1:44:57
that which is that we are $36 trillion in debt as a nation.
1:45:01
We're spending 20% of every dollar that comes in from
1:45:04
taxpayers just to cover the interest.
1:45:07
And guess what? American people, bad news,
1:45:10
interest rates are going up. So that 20% is going to get
1:45:14
worse and worse. We had Ray Dalio come in and
1:45:17
tell Congress that we are entering potentially dark
1:45:21
territory. There's a number of red flags.
1:45:24
We're we're at the worst level of debt.
1:45:26
We're at a worst level of debt than we were after we left the
1:45:29
World War Two, OK? We're at that level of debt.
1:45:33
And we didn't just fight a war. We were facing potential wars
1:45:38
and conflicts. We're at that level of debt.
1:45:40
And we didn't just emerge from the recession or depression.
1:45:44
If that happens today, you'll see the dollar no longer be the
1:45:48
world reserve currency and and we will be in serious trouble.
1:45:52
And so that's that is the context that we're in.
1:45:55
Look, if there was all the money in the world, it's fine to throw
1:45:59
money around, but we don't have all the money in the world.
1:46:01
And the question that we have at hand today is, is it appropriate
1:46:05
to spend taxpayer dollars on things that may not be necessary
1:46:09
anymore? And so my question, Mr.
1:46:11
Gonzalez, at one point in time there was state sponsored speech
1:46:15
directly. It was the form of town criers,
1:46:18
correct? So government used to fund
1:46:21
people to go out in the street and deliver the news of the day
1:46:26
vocally at St. Corners, correct?
1:46:28
OK, why don't we do that today? Well, I think it's because we'd
1:46:33
have better ways of delivering the news.
1:46:36
I mean, I think you get my point.
1:46:37
Like today, they at one point in time there was very limited
1:46:41
access to news and there was a there was an appropriate time
1:46:44
where potentially we need to have state sponsored news.
1:46:48
But is that, is that the way? Do we need that today?
1:46:52
No, we do not. And may I quote Thomas Jefferson
1:46:54
on this very point, since you bring this up.
1:46:58
He said to compel a man to furnish contributions of money
1:47:02
for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and aborts
1:47:06
is simple and tyrannical. This is what I base my
1:47:10
opposition to public funding for media.
1:47:12
Yeah. And I that's why I think that
1:47:14
what in given this context, like let's be real, we're it was said
1:47:18
that we're attacking free speech.
1:47:20
This is paid. This is state sponsored speech.
1:47:22
And the very reason why we have have, you know, these witnesses
1:47:26
before us today isn't because they're totally being funded or
1:47:30
completely being funded. We're not bringing in Disney
1:47:32
Channel in here, right? We're not bringing in the
1:47:37
National Geographic right for their content.
1:47:40
The reason why we're having this conversation is because you're,
1:47:43
you're, we are funding you. And, and because we're funding
1:47:47
you, the taxpayers get to have an opportunity to ask why are we
1:47:52
funding some of these content that they might disagree with?
1:47:56
Yeah, No, I'm completely, that's completely right.
1:47:58
In fact, I think that PBS and NPR, but especially PBS will
1:48:02
thrive on the membership model. They, they they keep saying it's
1:48:05
such a small percentage. What?
1:48:07
Well, if it's the the public funding, if it's such a small
1:48:10
percentage, then no problem. Yeah.
1:48:12
So Mr. I'm going to ask a very difficult question.
1:48:15
But if you're in my shoes and you have to face the fact, can
1:48:18
we fund Social Security or do we do we spend money on NPR?
1:48:22
Which would you choose? Congressman, I would argue that
1:48:27
in which if. You had to pick if you were
1:48:29
forced to make a decision, there wasn't enough money to go around
1:48:33
Social Security or NPR. We know how
1:48:46
fund PBS or to fund veterans healthcare if given limited
1:48:52
resources, which is where we're at.
1:48:54
I I recognize the limited resources and I feel that both
1:48:58
are important for this country. And I think what the American
1:49:01
people want to know is when they're sending money, their
1:49:04
taxpayer dollars, and they're funding things like Independent
1:49:07
Lens. And look, I like some of the
1:49:10
content on on your stations, I love Nova.
1:49:13
But you know what? Nova competes with National
1:49:15
Geographic in nature. Why are we funding something
1:49:18
that competes with these private sector entries?
1:49:21
I like Sesame Street, but I also know that it's competing
1:49:25
directly with Handy Manny, Doc Mcstuffins, and Little
1:49:28
Einstein's, right? Those exist and we're not
1:49:30
funding them. They're not here having to
1:49:32
defend their content, but because we are funding it, I'm
1:49:36
going to ask you, why are we funding an episode?
1:49:40
Episodes of Real Lens Independent Lens about an
1:49:43
episode called Real Boy, A trans teen navigates adolescent
1:49:47
sobriety and physical emotional ramifications that's what the
1:49:52
American people want to know Social Security our.
1:49:55
Witness We're but our witnesses can answer the questions.
1:49:59
Thank you, Madam Chair. That was a documentary that was
1:50:02
produced for for adults as part of our prime time audience and
1:50:08
it was part of a point of view that we share to try to help
1:50:12
people understand the wide breadth of experiences of people
1:50:16
across the country. Thank.
1:50:18
You, Madam Chair. I now recognize the gentlewoman
1:50:21
from the District of Columbia, Miss Norton, for 5 minutes.
1:50:25
Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to thank the
1:50:29
witnesses for being here today. I am a strong supporter of
1:50:33
public public broadcasting and I am a regular listener and
1:50:39
watcher of the public broadcasting stations here in
1:50:44
DC. Public broadcasting is a public
1:50:49
good. WETA's, DC's local PBS station,
1:50:58
is proudly home to the world's longest running high school quiz
1:51:07
quiz show. For over 60 years, the show it's
1:51:12
academic has showcased some of the best and brightest high
1:51:18
school students in the Capital Region, President Reagan once
1:51:22
praised. It's.
1:51:23
Academic as quote a reminder of the importance of education.
1:51:31
End Quote and even Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas made a
1:51:36
guest appearance. 1 area student who competed on the show said
1:51:47
Quote it's. Made me a lot.
1:51:49
Smarter End Quote and quote getting to say.
1:51:54
That I've been on ATV show is really.
1:51:58
Cool. End Quote.
1:52:01
It's. It's academic is just one
1:52:04
example of local public media programming.
1:52:08
That. Celebrates and lifts up the
1:52:10
community, Mr. Allman. In your experience as head of
1:52:16
the Alaska Public Media? Why?
1:52:19
Is it important for public media to elevate local voices?
1:52:24
Thank you so much for that question.
1:52:26
There are stories to be told all over this great nation of ours.
1:52:30
And one of the things that I take the utmost pride in is
1:52:35
being someone who can provide the strategy and build the
1:52:39
resources and build the capacity to ensure that we can capture
1:52:43
video about those uniquely Alaskan stories.
1:52:47
We can capture audio about those uniquely Alaskan stories.
1:52:51
And what we do is we take that opportunity to not only tell
1:52:55
those stories for ourselves within our great state, but we
1:52:58
also work with our national partners.
1:53:00
This local national partnership is essential.
1:53:03
Without PBS, without NPR, you wouldn't hear stories, news
1:53:07
stories, public affairs stories, community stories from Alaska.
1:53:12
You wouldn't see them on the PBS News Hour.
1:53:15
This is vital. It's vital for Alaskans to know
1:53:19
that they're connected to their nation and that what we do in
1:53:22
Alaska matters to our nation. Thank you again for that
1:53:25
question, Miss Krieger. Miss Kerger, I would love to
1:53:31
hear your bigger FUTURE picture. Take her on this.
1:53:37
If PBS stations are suddenly taken off the air, what would be
1:53:41
lost to communities across the country?
1:53:46
I've spent a good part of my time as the president of PBS
1:53:50
traveling and visiting our stations across the country
1:53:53
because I feel for me to do my job well, I need to understand
1:53:57
what the role of our stations are in communities.
1:53:59
That means spending time not just with station management,
1:54:02
but also with people in the community.
1:54:03
So I've been to all 50 States and the reason that we are here
1:54:09
and the reason that we are arguing so passionately for
1:54:12
funding, recognizing there are very difficult challenges in our
1:54:16
in our country right now, is that many of our smaller and
1:54:22
actually medium sized stations would not exist without the
1:54:25
federal appropriation. And when you look at a station
1:54:28
like Cookeville, TN, which serves part of Appalachia, 50%
1:54:32
of their budget comes from the federal government.
1:54:35
Those are stations that I've seen that have small Staffs that
1:54:38
do extraordinary work, and those are the stations that I worry
1:54:43
would not survive. This would be an existential
1:54:46
moment for them, and that's why I think this is so important.
1:54:50
The. The The DC area NPR station
1:54:54
similarly provides acclaimed programming including
1:55:01
up-to-the-minute news and local shows, exploring the DC cultural
1:55:05
scene and sharing stories from all over the city, including
1:55:09
historically marginalized areas. The Nation of the station also
1:55:16
produces award-winning journalism, such as an
1:55:20
investigative feature on local families coping with sickle cell
1:55:24
disease. Throughout the country, more and
1:55:28
more local news outlets are closing each day at a rate of
1:55:35
more than two per week. This has made public radio
1:55:39
reporting all the more important.
1:55:42
Miss Maher, Why? Is it beneficial for journalists
1:55:46
to live in the communities they cover?
1:55:48
We'll let the witness quickly answer and then we're out of
1:55:51
time. Thank you so much, Madam Chair.
1:55:54
We find that enabling public radio to continue to be funded
1:55:58
allows for us to meet the needs of people who live in news
1:56:02
deserts, and having journalists who are from that community
1:56:05
means they can prioritize the needs of that community.
1:56:08
Whether it's sickle cell issues in DC or whether it's the price
1:56:11
of sorghum in our agricultural heartland, Whether it is
1:56:15
thinking about the wildfires that we see across the mid,
1:56:18
across the center and West of our country, or whether it is
1:56:21
the impact of storms across the Gulf and southern parts of our
1:56:25
country. We recognize local journalists.
1:56:28
They speak the language. They recognize the
1:56:30
pronunciations of the places that they come from.
1:56:33
They come from the community. It is true tremendous value to
1:56:36
enable that we are for America from Americans, and all American
1:56:40
voices are heard. The gentlelady's time has
1:56:42
expired. I now recognize the gentleman
1:56:44
from Texas, Mr. Fallon, for 5 minutes.
1:56:47
Thank you, Madam Chair. Miss Mark, do you believe the
1:56:51
National that National Public Radio takes a balanced and fair
1:56:55
approach to news, politics, culture, etcetera?
1:57:01
Mr. Fallon, thank you for the question.
1:57:03
I came into the National Public Radio and.
1:57:05
I apologize. It's just that we have such a
1:57:06
limited time, of course, that to be true.
1:57:08
I believe that we have work to do, we always do, in order to
1:57:11
improve and serve all Americans more.
1:57:13
Accurate than not that you're fair or you're you're either
1:57:16
fair or you're unfair. So what do you think you are?
1:57:17
I believe. We wake up every day with a
1:57:18
desire to be fair and it is part of why claiming.
1:57:21
That you're fair. You have a desire to be fair.
1:57:22
OK, So you would not describe NPR as objective and
1:57:26
nonpartisan. I.
1:57:27
Would you would? OK.
1:57:28
Miss Karger, same question for you.
1:57:30
Would you believe the PBS is fair and objective and
1:57:32
nonpartisan? Yes.
1:57:34
OK. Thank you.
1:57:35
Thank you for the quick answer too.
1:57:36
So I I find it interesting that the CB PS recent goal was to
1:57:41
promote efforts that ensure fact based journalism that promotes a
1:57:44
Symphony of ideological viewpoints.
1:57:48
You both agree with that goal. Yes.
1:57:50
All right, wonderful. So, Miss Kurger, in 2023, when
1:57:57
PBS had a program Washington Week with The Atlantic, and when
1:58:01
President Biden's mental acuity was questioned, one of the
1:58:04
reporters claimed the GOP was lying.
1:58:07
Another reporter, Jeffrey Goldberg, who's been in the news
1:58:09
of late, described Biden as, quote, mentally acute.
1:58:12
Were you aware if there were any dissenting opinions on that
1:58:15
program that day? I don't know from that day, no.
1:58:18
There were, there were not. But fortunately in there was a
1:58:22
debate and I believe June of 2024, where the American people
1:58:25
in the world found out just who was lying, the Democrats,
1:58:27
Jeffrey Goldberg and PBS Miss Moore.
1:58:31
I'm sure you're aware that Hunter Biden had a laptop.
1:58:35
I am, Sir, yes, OK. And there were many stories
1:58:37
written about said laptop. Yes, Sir.
1:58:39
And in 2020, unfortunately, NPR's managing editor for news
1:58:42
refused to cover the story and he branded it a, quote, Waste of
1:58:45
time, not a real story and a distraction.
1:58:48
And instead, unfortunately of NPR investigating, they ran a
1:58:52
puff piece that led with experts say attack on Hunter Biden
1:58:57
addiction deepened stigma for millions.
1:59:01
It's unfortunate that NPR ignored the Hunter Biden laptop
1:59:05
story, but y'all did talk quite a bit about the debunked Russia
1:59:08
collusion. Do you know how many times NPR
1:59:10
interviewed Adam Schiff about? Congressman, I would love to say
1:59:13
that we actually believe we made a mistake on the Hunter Biden
1:59:16
laptop story and I. Appreciate that.
1:59:17
Thank you. How many times did y'all
1:59:19
interview Adam Schiff about the Russia collusion?
1:59:22
I'm sorry, sorry, I don't have that number.
1:59:23
It was 20. Five times.
1:59:25
You know how many times NPR interviewed Chairman of this
1:59:28
committee Oversight Committee Jamie Comer about the Biden
1:59:30
impeachment inquiry, the Hunter Biden tax evasion, and illicit
1:59:33
business dealings of the Biden family?
1:59:35
I'm sorry, Sir, I don't know. I believe.
1:59:37
That's zero. So it's 25 to 0.
1:59:38
Miss Kerger, you're aware there's a political spectrum
1:59:41
goes all the way from the far right to the far left and
1:59:45
everywhere in between. Would it trouble you to hear
1:59:47
that for six months there was an analysis done on PBS News Hour
1:59:51
from June to November of 2023 where they found that far right
1:59:56
was that term was used 162 times and far left was only used six
2:00:01
times. Do you find that troubling?
2:00:04
I, I don't know the study that you're referring to and I'd
2:00:06
love, I'd be very interested in seeing it and understanding how
2:00:09
they came up with those numbers media.
2:00:11
Research Center did a six month analysis and it's not how do you
2:00:14
find it? You say far right, it's terms.
2:00:17
They use the term far right 162 times, far left six times.
2:00:21
That's a 96 to 4% skew. You're also aware that you
2:00:24
covered the GOP and Democratic National Conventions in 2024,
2:00:28
yes? We did OK.
2:00:30
Interestingly, 72% of the coverage of the GOP convention
2:00:33
was -88% of the Democratic convention was positive.
2:00:38
Shouldn't be surprising when you have anchors like Amna Noat, who
2:00:42
described the Republican rhetoric as quote outright
2:00:45
racism and quote echoing white supremacy.
2:00:50
Miss Mayor, NPR Do you believe your reporters are fair?
2:00:55
You said they're fair and. They're working at it I.
2:00:57
Believe that they work today everyday.
2:00:58
Sir, they're non. Biased and yet you have the
2:01:02
voter registration issue. I mean, we're all human beings.
2:01:05
We're all going to see through the world through a certain
2:01:07
lens. And do you are you aware of any
2:01:10
Republicans, any registered Republicans in your newsroom?
2:01:13
I. Couldn't say registered, but I
2:01:15
know we have conservatives in our newsroom.
2:01:16
Yes, OK. So the red the recent
2:01:18
registration when it was looked at, 87, 87 Democrats and 0
2:01:23
Republicans register I. Found that very concerning.
2:01:25
Yeah, I would. Not even 40 to 30 or 50 to 2087
2:01:28
to 0. But it shouldn't be surprising
2:01:30
when their own CEO says things like I'm so done with late stage
2:01:34
capitalism, or calls the president of the United States a
2:01:36
deranged racist sociopath, or that America's addicted to white
2:01:40
supremacy. So billions have gone into both
2:01:43
of your coffers over the last several decades.
2:01:47
And I understand why Democrats on this committee are going to
2:01:49
viciously and vehemently to defend you all because you
2:01:53
become a propaganda wing of the Democratic Party. 67% of your
2:01:59
viewers and listeners identify as Democrat with only 12%
2:02:03
conservative. And you become a sandbox for
2:02:05
leftist propagandist to frolic on Taxpayer diamond no more.
2:02:09
And when you said in the beginning you're going to
2:02:11
promote a Symphony of ideological viewpoints, yeah,
2:02:14
you do. If you're left-leaning left, far
2:02:16
left, the. Gentleman, remarkably.
2:02:17
Marxist, I yield back. Thank you.
2:02:20
Thank you, Mr. Felon. I now recognize a gentleman from
2:02:23
Texas, Mr. Gill. Thank you, Chairwoman Green, and
2:02:28
I apologize. I'm getting over a cold, so I'm
2:02:30
losing my voice here. Miss, Miss Maher, I want to
2:02:34
start from with you. Just generally, would you say
2:02:36
you generally agree or disagree with the following statement?
2:02:40
The history of all hitherto existing society is the history
2:02:43
of class struggles. I would not say I agree with
2:02:47
that, you know? That, that's good to hear.
2:02:48
It's, it's interesting because a lot of your thinking, as
2:02:50
expressed by your public statements, is deeply infused
2:02:54
with economic and cultural Marxism.
2:02:57
Do you believe that America is addicted to white supremacy?
2:03:01
I believe that I tweeted that and I, as I've said earlier, I
2:03:04
believe much of my thinking has evolved over the last half
2:03:07
decade it. Has evolved.
2:03:09
Why did you tweet that? I don't recall the exact context
2:03:12
Sir, so I wouldn't be able to say.
2:03:14
OK. Do you believe that America
2:03:16
believes in black plunder and white democracy?
2:03:19
I. Don't believe that, Sir.
2:03:22
You. You tweeted.
2:03:23
That in. Reference to a book you were
2:03:25
reading at at the time. Apparently, The Case for
2:03:27
Reparations I. Don't think I've ever read that
2:03:29
book, Sir you. Tweeted about it.
2:03:33
You said. You took a day off to fully read
2:03:35
the case for reparations. You put that on Twitter in
2:03:38
January of 2020. I apologize.
2:03:41
I don't recall that I did OK. No, I'd no doubt that your your
2:03:45
tweet there is correct, but I don't recall that.
2:03:47
OK. Do you believe that white people
2:03:49
and inherently feel superior to other races?
2:03:52
I do. Not you.
2:03:52
Don't you? You tweeted something to that
2:03:54
effect. You said I I grew up feeling
2:03:57
superior. Ha.
2:03:57
How wide of me? Why did you tweet that?
2:04:01
I think I was probably reflecting on what it was to be
2:04:05
to grow up in an environment where I had lots of advantages
2:04:08
it. Sounds like you're saying that
2:04:09
white people feel superior. I don't believe that anybody
2:04:13
feels that way, Sir. I was just reflecting on my own
2:04:15
experiences. You.
2:04:16
Think the white people should pay reparations?
2:04:18
I. Have never said that, Sir.
2:04:20
Yes, you did. You said it in January of 2020.
2:04:23
You tweeted Yes, the North. Yes, all of us, Yes, America,
2:04:27
Yes, our original collective sin and unpaid debt.
2:04:29
Yes. Reparations.
2:04:31
Yes. On this day, I don't.
2:04:32
Believe that was a reference to fiscal reparations, Sir.
2:04:35
What? Kind of reparations.
2:04:36
Was it a reference to I? Think it was just a reference to
2:04:38
the idea that we all owe much to the people who came before us
2:04:42
that. That's a bizarre way to frame
2:04:45
what you tweeted. OK, how, how, how many, how much
2:04:49
reparations have you personally paid?
2:04:51
Sir, I I don't believe that I've ever paid reparations, OK?
2:04:56
It's just for everybody else. I'm.
2:04:58
Not asking anyone seems. To be what you're suggesting, do
2:05:01
you believe that looting is morally wrong I.
2:05:03
Believe that looting is illegal, and I refer to it as
2:05:05
counterproductive. I think it should be prosecuted.
2:05:07
You believe? It's morally wrong though of.
2:05:09
Course of. Course.
2:05:10
Then why did you refer to it as counterproductive?
2:05:13
The very different, very different way to describe it.
2:05:16
It is both morally wrong and counterproductive, as well as
2:05:19
being tweeted. It's hard to be mad about
2:05:21
protests in reference to the BLM rotet protests, not prioritizing
2:05:26
the private property of a system of oppression.
2:05:30
You didn't condemn the looting, You said that it was
2:05:32
counterproductive. NPR also promoted a book called
2:05:36
In Defense of Looting. Do you think that that's an
2:05:38
appropriate use of taxpayer dollars?
2:05:40
I'm unfamiliar with that book, Sir, and I don't believe that
2:05:43
was at my time you tweeted. That you read that book but.
2:05:46
I don't believe that I did read that book, Sir, do you?
2:05:49
Think that a few few years ago NPR educated America about quote
2:05:54
the whole community of gender queer dinosaur enthusiasts.
2:05:58
Do you think that that's a an appropriate use of tax dollars
2:06:00
I. Was not at NPR at the time.
2:06:02
That's. Not the question though, do you
2:06:03
think that that's an appropriate use of our tax dollars?
2:06:05
I. Think our tax dollars that we
2:06:07
use are to be able to provide a wide range of I'll take.
2:06:10
I'll take that as a yes, you do believe that that's appropriate.
2:06:13
Your health advisor at NPR also stated in an interview that,
2:06:16
quote, fear of fatness is more harmful than actual fat.
2:06:21
Would you like to explain how fear of fatness is more harmful
2:06:24
than actual fat? That's directly.
2:06:26
That's an editorial at NPR I. Am not familiar with the
2:06:29
editorial and I don't believe that was published during my
2:06:31
time here. It's.
2:06:31
Called Diet culture is everywhere.
2:06:33
Here's how to fight it. Do you think that that's an
2:06:35
appropriate use of taxpayer dollars?
2:06:37
I. Think any reporting on health
2:06:39
isn't appropriate? You expect dollars?
2:06:41
Yes, and. You and you think that
2:06:42
editorializing that fat is not unhealthy is appropriate.
2:06:46
I don't know that what that article is Sir, and I'm not
2:06:49
familiar with it. I couldn't say fake.
2:06:50
News Do you think that basic accommodations like doorways or
2:06:55
seatbelts represent, quote, latent fat phobia?
2:06:59
I don't have an opinion. It's.
2:07:00
Also from NPR Do you think civility is racist?
2:07:03
No. Sir.
2:07:04
No, your outlet ran an article entitled Quote when civility is
2:07:08
used as a cudgel against people of color.
2:07:11
That was on All Things Considered.
2:07:15
Would you like to explain I? Well, I'm not on the editorial
2:07:18
side, sorry. I'm not familiar with that
2:07:19
story. You talk.
2:07:20
About how NPR is news. This is This is
2:07:23
editorialization, and I'll read it.
2:07:24
For many people of color in the United States, civility isn't so
2:07:28
much social lubricant as it is a vehicle for containing them,
2:07:32
preventing social mobility and preserving the status quo.
2:07:35
This is garbage. I'll spend all of my time doing
2:07:39
everything I can to ensure you guys never get another dollar of
2:07:42
taxpayer funding. This is complete garbage.
2:07:45
Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Mr. Gill.
2:07:48
I now recognize the gentleman from Georgia, Mister Jack, for 5
2:07:51
minutes. Well, thank you very much, Madam
2:07:54
Chair. I'd like to just start and build
2:07:57
off of something Mr. Fallon noted.
2:07:59
And Mr. Miss Mayor, you I think you noted.
2:08:02
And just to confirm within your statement to him that NPR failed
2:08:06
to accurate, accurately report the circumstances around and
2:08:09
content within Hunter Biden's laptop story.
2:08:11
Is that fair to categorize your statement?
2:08:15
Our current editorial leadership believes that we've made a
2:08:17
mistake not reporting the story and more reporting it earlier.
2:08:20
Yes, and. I recognize you weren't there at
2:08:22
the time, but what institute's and control what?
2:08:25
What have you done to ensure that never happens again?
2:08:28
A number of things, Sir, and thank you for the opportunity to
2:08:30
speak to them. We have hired additional editor
2:08:34
core core, which we refer to as our editorial review to make
2:08:37
sure that all stories before they go out are comprehensive
2:08:40
and well reviewed. We've instituted a monthly
2:08:43
review to ensure that the most challenging stories of every
2:08:45
month we go back and we look at what we may have missed in order
2:08:48
to not miss issues again and change policies, processes and
2:08:52
policies to be able to have more robust conversation and to
2:08:55
ensure all areas and all views are considered.
2:08:58
We have hired analysts to be able to count the number of
2:09:01
stories that we're running on any particular issue, including
2:09:03
whose voices are represented. We've moved from bringing
2:09:07
pundits on air to try and bring direct policymakers on air so
2:09:10
that we can ask questions of policymakers rather than hearing
2:09:13
through other people's perspectives.
2:09:14
Those are just a few of the things we've done so far.
2:09:16
I've got a couple others if you have time.
2:09:18
Thank. You and you can submit those for
2:09:19
the record. Would you suggest then that the
2:09:23
the failure to accurately, accurately report those
2:09:26
circumstances and the the content around that story, would
2:09:29
you suggest today, as I feel many others feel that that
2:09:33
impacted the 2020 election I. Could not say, Sir, I don't
2:09:36
know. Well, I just, I asked because
2:09:39
you have a broad viewership, broad listenership.
2:09:42
And I'm just curious if it is so broad and it is so necessary for
2:09:46
us to continue to give taxpayer funds as you all submit to me to
2:09:53
miss accurately report something that's incredibly important
2:09:55
around a 2020 election is very concerning.
2:09:59
So welcome. Another thought from you there.
2:10:01
I believe that we made a mistake, as I said, and I
2:10:04
believe that we have taken that to heart and are focused on how
2:10:08
do we report and report effectively in Timeless in a
2:10:11
timely fashion on all the issues that matter to all Americans.
2:10:15
I I hear your concern, Sir, and I know I want you to know that
2:10:18
we are truly working on this. I I'd.
2:10:20
Like to spend the rest of my time talking about funding, and
2:10:23
I know that some of my colleagues talked about it a
2:10:24
little bit today, but could you walk us through the amount of
2:10:28
money that NPR received from CPB annually?
2:10:31
Yes. Sure, Sir.
2:10:32
We receive $11.2 million this past year, the majority of which
2:10:37
goes to the public radio satellite system, which we
2:10:39
operate on behalf of the entire public radio network of.
2:10:43
We also received a smaller amount of funding in the course
2:10:46
of the past year that went to help us hire those additional
2:10:50
editors and analysts in order to be able to beef up that
2:10:52
editorial review. We received funding to support
2:10:55
the coverage of the recent election in order to make sure
2:10:58
that we are had our journalists all across the country and we're
2:11:02
able to speak to Americans of all different political
2:11:04
backgrounds. And what?
2:11:04
Percentage of your budget share comes from the federal
2:11:08
government. Depending on how you counted,
2:11:11
Sir, it is, but it's less than 5%.
2:11:15
And to help me understand too, the CPB, you know, as I
2:11:19
understand it, we've Congress has appropriated $500 million to
2:11:22
CPB. It flows out and I think smaller
2:11:24
radio stations go and apply for grants for it.
2:11:27
Do you receive payment and from smaller radio stations through
2:11:30
licensing agreements and things of that nature?
2:11:33
We. Do in the fees for that are are
2:11:37
designed around the amount of funding that they get from
2:11:40
private member donations. So it's not the fees are not
2:11:43
designed around federal funding. They're designed around what
2:11:46
sort of direct private support and donations they receive from
2:11:49
members and listeners. Well, I noted Mr. Jordan today
2:11:53
suggested that you are fundraising off this hearing
2:11:55
today and, and a question that I have then, if if you receive
2:11:58
less than 5% and over and over today you've said that private
2:12:02
funding helps support the mission and and the the work of
2:12:05
NPR. Could NPR survive without the 5%
2:12:08
that we give NPR annually? My belief is that the funding is
2:12:11
essential to the public radio system, and that is the 246
2:12:15
member stations with the 1300 stations across the nation so
2:12:19
that we're able as a network to serve all Americans with 100%
2:12:23
coverage. If federal funding for our
2:12:26
network goes away, it means that people in rural parts of
2:12:29
America, places where they can't afford to make private donations
2:12:32
to support their local journalism, those will be
2:12:35
harmed. But sorry if I'm the bigger harm
2:12:37
as well or the additional harm is that Americans in places that
2:12:41
are affluent or do have many media choices will not be able
2:12:44
to hear from their fellow Americans that are often under
2:12:47
heard bottom. Line If the 5% went away, would
2:12:51
NPR still exist? Well, it would be incredibly
2:12:53
damaging to the federal, to the, excuse me, to the National
2:12:56
Public Radio system. I yield back, just want to
2:13:02
submit to the record. Turn your microphone on, Madam.
2:13:06
Chair, I'd just like to submit to the record this you.
2:13:08
Ask unanimous consent, I ask. Unanimous consent to submit to
2:13:11
the record this flash drive containing 6 feet worth of
2:13:16
documents documenting NPR and PBS as political bias without.
2:13:21
Objection so ordered. Thank.
2:13:23
You. In closing, I want to thank our
2:13:28
witnesses once again for their testimony today.
2:13:31
I now yield to the Ranking Member, Lynch for his closing
2:13:34
remarks. Thank you, Madam Chair, thank
2:13:36
you for having the sharing. I want to thank the witnesses
2:13:38
for your willingness to testify. In closing, I want to follow up
2:13:44
on Mr. Connors point. I'd point out to my colleagues
2:13:47
that there are there are some government functions that are
2:13:50
not merely transactions. There are there are some
2:13:53
undertakings that we as a country engage in what which are
2:13:57
not necessarily justified by cash on the barrel at the point
2:14:03
of purchase. Everything is not a transaction.
2:14:07
It's not like selling a car, although that's exactly what the
2:14:11
president was doing on the lawn of the White House the other
2:14:13
day. Sometimes a government program
2:14:15
is a long term investment. I think that applies to to
2:14:19
public broadcasting, like when you use public television to
2:14:23
teach kids their numbers and and their alphabet, because in some
2:14:27
households that might be the only source of instruction
2:14:31
available. More often it could be an
2:14:34
exercise in trust because a lot of our parents out there, 88% of
2:14:38
parents said they trusted PBS kids or, or when you have a, a
2:14:45
documentary given by a historian like Ken Burns and, and he, he
2:14:54
does research and drills down on the letters and first hand
2:14:58
correspondence of Civil War veterans and families North and
2:15:01
South and, and gives us the hard facts of the Civil War.
2:15:06
Hopefully we are teaching or at least reminding people of the
2:15:11
wrongfulness of slavery and the consequences of us from a system
2:15:15
of bondage and the horrific price that was paid and perhaps
2:15:19
is still being paid. Everything is not a transaction.
2:15:23
But but I do believe that some people see it that way.
2:15:26
I think President Trump and Elon Musk see things see life often
2:15:31
as a series of transactions. Much of the support we provide
2:15:36
to seniors is not a profitable transaction because they're
2:15:39
they're older and vulnerable, but they have paid for their
2:15:43
fair share into Social Security. That's why FDR designed it that
2:15:47
way. Some people just wanted the
2:15:49
government to promise to pay a pension.
2:15:50
But but FDR knew that if he had Americans pay into that system,
2:15:58
that their sense of fairness would cause them to defend that
2:16:03
tension. And and so they would fight like
2:16:07
hell to get what they had coming it it sounds like we might have
2:16:11
to test that theory if Elon Musk and Howard Luck and a cab their
2:16:14
way. Another another thing we do that
2:16:17
is not necessarily profitable in a financial sense is that we
2:16:22
care for our veterans. It's a promise we made to our
2:16:25
sons and daughters in uniform. And it's the right thing to do.
2:16:28
And veterans care and veteran benefits are special because
2:16:31
those benefits are owed to every veteran who lies in a hospital
2:16:36
bed in every VA hospital across the country, because those
2:16:39
benefits are for courageous service previously and honorably
2:16:44
rendered to our country. And so now it's the time for
2:16:47
America and Congress to fulfill their obligation as promised.
2:16:51
That's not a transaction. But because of that cost, the
2:16:55
Trump administration VA has announced 80,000 layoffs at the
2:16:59
VA. Trump and Vance also see support
2:17:02
for Ukraine as a transaction, even though they've been invaded
2:17:05
by Russia and are fighting for their lives and their freedom.
2:17:09
As we saw a couple of weeks ago for Mr. Trump, for President
2:17:12
Trump and Mr. Vance, it was a power transaction.
2:17:15
And as the president insisted, Szalinski had no cards to play.
2:17:20
And as Vance pointed out, he refused to sufficiently bend the
2:17:23
knee and he didn't dress up. These examples point out the
2:17:27
nature of the presidency. Throughout our history, the
2:17:30
president has never been viewed as the Hochster in chief.
2:17:33
Instead, our most successful presidents have occupied a
2:17:36
position of what could be seen as moral leadership, which might
2:17:40
cause some to conclude that America is bankrupt right now.
2:17:44
But I have hope in the genius of our Constitution that the checks
2:17:48
and balances of our government framework must might once again
2:17:51
compensate for that shortcoming in the White House.
2:17:54
It could be that Congress might provide that balance, or it it
2:17:58
may be the judicial branch that steps into the breach.
2:18:01
Or it might require the ultimate source of power in our system,
2:18:04
the people themselves, to demand that we fulfill our obligations
2:18:08
to all those most vulnerable in our country, wounded veterans,
2:18:12
seniors, children, and the poor to whom so much is owed.
2:18:19
Madam Chair, I appreciate the the the opportunity here to
2:18:22
address this issue. I would have preferred that we
2:18:25
were talking about the security breach that occurred recently,
2:18:29
but perhaps that will be for another day.
2:18:31
But I thank you for your courtesy and I yield back.
2:18:35
I. Now recognize myself for closing
2:18:37
remarks. The United States is $36
2:18:41
trillion in debt. In fiscal year 2024, the
2:18:45
government spent over 1.8 trillion more than it took in.
2:18:50
And in fiscal year 2025, the interest in our debt is expected
2:18:54
to exceed $1 trillion as we continue investigating waste,
2:18:59
fraud and abuse. And we can look no further than
2:19:03
the Corporation for Public Broadcasting.
2:19:06
The LGBTQ indoctrination of our children, the systematic racism
2:19:11
narrative, and the support for censorship being pushed by the
2:19:14
heads of NPR and PBS are just several of the many abuses of
2:19:20
taxpayer dollars. And if you are one of the select
2:19:24
few who might support such content, you can personally
2:19:29
support and fund it with your own money through private
2:19:33
donations. Because the reality is, the
2:19:35
United States of America is broke and can't afford it.
2:19:40
And after all, PBS and NPR are already fundraising off of this
2:19:44
committee hearing. The American people are closely
2:19:48
following along today in this long-awaited hearing to hear the
2:19:51
case for why Americans hard earned tax dollars should
2:19:55
continue for public broadcasting.
2:19:59
I think from what we have heard here today, the American people
2:20:02
will not continue to allow such propaganda to be funded through
2:20:07
the federal government with their hard earned tax dollars.
2:20:11
The Corporation for Public Broadcasting that we give over
2:20:16
half a billion dollars to no longer serves the public.
2:20:20
It serves a narrow audience of wealthy liberal elites who are
2:20:25
out of touch with everyday Americans.
2:20:27
Not only have the times changed and the American people who once
2:20:31
needed these outlets can now access the news anywhere at any
2:20:35
time, but the content that is being put out through the state
2:20:39
sponsored outlets is so radical it is brainwashing the American
2:20:44
people and more significantly American children with
2:20:48
unamerican, anti family, pro crime fake news.
2:20:53
The American people do not support their taxpayer dollars
2:20:57
going to NPR articles like How is sex Determined?
2:21:01
Scientists Say it's Complicated, which discusses how biological
2:21:06
sex is not limited to male or female.
2:21:09
Or another article about how stories on crime are rife with
2:21:12
misinformation and racism. Or about how birds and trees are
2:21:17
racist. Over a 7 month period, the Media
2:21:20
Research Center discovered the PBS News Hour gave over 90% of
2:21:25
the airtime to the left on gender ideology stories. 90%.
2:21:31
As mentioned earlier, PBS was the outlet that featured the
2:21:35
child predator drag queen on the education show for kids ages 3
2:21:40
to 8 years old. And to clarify the record
2:21:43
because our witness Miss Kerger lied Underoath and said it
2:21:47
wasn't featured on PBS. This show was aired on PBS on
2:21:52
April 1st, 2021 and we will take a look at this video.
2:21:57
Right now we're using ATV today because our audio system is
2:22:01
having problems. Let's go ahead and watch this
2:22:03
video. Blah blah blah.
2:22:27
Blah, blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah all through the
2:22:39
town. So get your singing voice.
2:22:46
The hips go swish, swish, swish. The shoulders go shimmy, shimmy,
2:22:53
shimmy. That's repulsive.
2:22:56
That's not what children ages 3 to 8 should ever be watching.
2:23:00
A grown biological man posing as a woman.
2:23:05
And by the way, Miss Kerger, that was aired on April 1st,
2:23:09
2021. And then something happened.
2:23:14
It wasn't an accident and it wasn't just for a brief time
2:23:18
that it was up. It was aired April first and
2:23:22
then somehow it expired May 24th.
2:23:26
Later, later on, it was taken down.
2:23:29
Wonder. I wonder why?
2:23:30
Wonder why that was taken down? Another egregious example
2:23:35
includes back in 2010 PBS is Travis Smiley stated that
2:23:40
Christians blow up people every single day.
2:23:45
Haven't seen that ever happen in my life.
2:23:48
And today, if you look on NPR's website, there is still 0
2:23:52
mention of any negative coverage of any Democrat today.
2:23:56
And trust us, there are more than plenty of examples to pull
2:24:00
from. How about a member from this
2:24:02
committee making fun of the governor of Texas for having a
2:24:06
disability and living his life in a wheelchair?
2:24:10
Miss Mar From headlines to podcast to documentaries to
2:24:15
children's programming, NPR and PBS have all but abandoned their
2:24:19
promise to deliver unbiased, nonpartisan and fact based
2:24:24
reporting. The American people have woken
2:24:26
up to this nonsense and blatant disregard for truth, and truth
2:24:31
matters, and they will not put up with it any longer.
2:24:36
Contrary to the beliefs of the head of NPR, Miss Maher, truth
2:24:40
is not subjective. It's actually very important.
2:24:43
And there are not multiple truths.
2:24:45
There's just one. For a civilization to exist,
2:24:49
objective truth must exist. It must be embraced, It must be
2:24:54
protected. It is not a distraction.
2:24:57
And despite many attempts to whitewash it, truth will
2:25:01
prevail. The Corporation for Public
2:25:04
Broadcasting is using taxpayer dollars to actively suppress the
2:25:07
truth, suppress diverse viewpoints, and produce some of
2:25:11
the most outlandish, ludicrous content.
2:25:14
After listening to what we've heard today, we will be calling
2:25:18
for the complete and total defund and dismantling of the
2:25:21
Corporation for Public Broadcasting.
2:25:26
Here's how it works in America. Every single day.
2:25:29
Every single day, private businesses operate on their own
2:25:34
without government funding. We believe that you all can hate
2:25:41
us on your own dime. With that and without objection,
2:25:45
and all members have 5 legislative days within which to
2:25:49
submit materials and additional written questions for witnesses,
2:25:53
which will be forwarded to the witnesses if there is no further
2:25:57
business. Without objection.
2:25:58
The Subcommittee. Hey, thank you so much for
2:26:05
listening today. I really do appreciate your
2:26:07
support. If you could take a second and
2:26:08
hit the subscribe or the follow button on whatever podcast
2:26:11
platform that you're listening on right now, I greatly
2:26:14
appreciate it. It helps out the show
2:26:16
tremendously and you'll never miss an episode.
2:26:19
And each episode is about 10 minutes or less to get you
2:26:22
caught up quickly. And please, if you want to
2:26:25
support the show even more, go to patreon.com Stage zero.
2:26:31
And please take care of yourselves and each other.
2:26:33
And I'll see you tomorrow.