Latest / Skin Anarchy / Vanessa Coppola APN-C FNP-BC, celebrity professional interview

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Vanessa Coppola APN-C FNP-BC, celebrity professional interview · Skin Anarchy

• 0:01
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• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, guys.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I have a lovely guest review today, and I'm super excited to learn from her and her work.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: So without further ado, I'm going to introduce you guys to Vanessa Kupola, who is a nurse practitioner, and she uh really specializes in uh non-surgical facial aesthetics and minimally invasive cosmetic procedures.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome to the show, Vanessa.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so honored to host you.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so excited and honored to be here.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for having me.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's such a pleasure, and I love that um, you know, you have such a unique take when it comes to aesthetics and beauty.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I would really love for uh to kind of go down memory lane and talk about how it all began for you and when you decided that you wanted to go the nurse practitioner route and all that good stuff.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I would probably say my path was a very circuitous path in in winding up where I am now.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I sometimes think that things that are by chance or happenstance actually work out in the end for a reason.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I just love what I do now and I'm so happy that I am where I am.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: When I was really young, I was always really um intrigued by light and form and shapes.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I think I share that with a lot of my colleagues um that work in the industry.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: There's definitely a lot of um practitioners that um draw or they sculpt, and I as well, I was very interested in in sketching and just like the interplay of shadows and light and contrast.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_03: And then as I got older, I was very interested, of course, you know, pre-adolescent, you know, obsessed with skincare and makeup.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_03: I was a, you know, a self-confessed obsessive when it came to anything new.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_03: I was tried everything and had even um toyed with the idea of becoming a professional makeup artist because I love the way you could change, not even so much change, but really enhance and bring out someone's natural beauty with just, you know, the application of some contour and some highlight.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_03: And so that passion sort of led me, you know, was there as a as a pastime for most of my career.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I actually started out from the business side.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I used to work in real estate uh in New York City, and then I went uh to software development.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: So the two fields uh somewhat related uh but gave me a good business background.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_03: And but I always had this love to really do something in terms of aesthetics, and I always had a um uh a fascination with um scientific studies because I like to read the literature.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_03: I always wanted to know the why behind everything, even when it just came to um cosmetic preparations and the formulations and the ingredients that went into it.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_03: So that's sort of all of that gelled together and took me down the road where I entered the field of nursing.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: And it was just wonderful that I could eventually practice as an aesthetic provider, as a nurse practitioner, and that led me to where I am today, uh, which is I have a practice here in Bergen County, New Jersey, and I get to do what I love every day and learn every day, and put on my business hat and my provider hat, and one day is dramatically different from the one before.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure many entrepreneurs can attest to uh being uh a young brand.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_03: And so you wear many, many hats, and and and so that's really where it started, just a love of a form and shape and and an inquiry and a passion.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm I'm humbled every day by my patients that I could do what I do and help them achieve their goals.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I love to hear their stories.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_03: There's always a story, and when you get to know someone so intimately, you really help them become the version of themselves that they see themselves as.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_03: And it's a beautiful transformation, and it's exciting to be a part of that.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I love that.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that you um you mentioned the patient story thing because I'm not gonna lie to you, I'm one of those people that is very um, I don't get annoyed, but I'm always in in a hurry, so I never really get to hear the whole thing as far as like the complaints and the, you know, but it's I really appreciate um medical professionals um such as yourself that really just you, you know, you you listen and and people can really come and and and talk and and share all of their stories and all of their experiences.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that means so much, right?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: In like the medical world because it tells you so much about a patient, you know, especially like there's a lot more, you know.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: I always say that there's a lot more treating somebody than a patient history.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you gotta understand like who they are and you know what they're about and all that.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I I I love your journey and I and I want to know, um, you know, this minimally invasive uh route is something I'm very passionate about because um a while back I did it was kind of a rant that I went on by myself on the podcast where I was just kind of like very upset because you know, like clinicians uh we often, you know, we take this approach that can sometimes be too aggressive.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, you know, suggesting like Botox to everybody, right?
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: Or like um fillers to everybody, or like just just suggesting things that are like you don't need that yet, or you know, it's like you can you can find other ways.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: And also I was mad because I was like, well, you know, give skincare a chance kind of thing, right?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I got out of this rant and I basically went on air and I was just explaining my my point of view about it, and I would love to get your take on the idea of minimally invasive and where what you think um about the current state of this industry and just you know, just how you perceive it, you know.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_03: I I love that, and that speaks so much to the ethos of who I am as a provider and the basis and the philosophy of our brand.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's really definitely about the individual and not about selling them.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_03: There has to be an authentic relationship.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_03: Everybody has certain things that they want to achieve, and they have something about them that they want to see.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: And you have to you have to really balance that with realistic outcomes.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_03: I can't tell you how many times I I speak to patients and they tell me stories of uh things that they were promised that would happen.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_03: And there are just certain things that really can't be achieved, and there's so many things that can.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_03: And instead of having the conversation of things that, you know, are 20 steps down the line, I think it's so important to really learn about the patient and their story and just start with the basics.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_03: I even do that with my patients with their skincare regimens, and I love that you brought up skincare because I really think that's the foundation and the maintenance of all of these procedures that we do that could really improve things.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_03: We have so many, for example, let's take Botox.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_03: So my husband jokes and calls me the anti-sales person because I do turn people away from Botox all the time.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll say, you know, well, this, I don't think you need that, you know, but but then I'll say, but why do you feel like you need that?
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_03: Because sometimes it's something else, and the person's just not verbalizing it in the language that we know.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_03: So we hear certain words and we think Botox or or something else.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_03: But for example, for someone that is a candidate for Botox, I always talk about, you know, Botox is going to relax the muscle.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's like the lumpy mattress under the sheet, and it's gonna smooth it out, you know.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: And we talk about the way that it works because I I find so often that patients love to hear the mechanism of how it works, it really helps them understand.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_03: And then I always say, I love to talk, so I always say, if this is too much info, you could just tell me to stop.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I always think this is the time to start just a retin, a retinol, because a retinol can work its magic, you know, right now when the muscle's not contracting and reinforcing that line.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: And there's so and that's a simple thing to do, and it could have the greatest effect.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I also talk, and I I love skincare.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I I I'm just a big fan of certain lines I love, and you know, but I always tell patients you don't have to start with this.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: There's drugstore options, and we always make it a point to offer medical grade options and drugstore options, and sometimes really it comes down to a combination of just the right products for the right patient.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_03: And the other thing about minimally invasive that I think is important that you touched on is I do see too much excess, even in skincare.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: I can't tell you how often I'll see someone that will come in with almost like a I call it angry skin, it's like a contact dermatitis or chemical dermatitis.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, too many products and too many products, and they're laying them on, and and we'll do an inventory of everything.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes I'll say, you know, let's just stop everything for a while, let's go really just bare bones basic and let the skin recover.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes you have to do that, you just have to let the skin recover and re-epithelialize before you can actually, you know, start on a plan.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_03: And and it's interesting what you say about where we are now with minimally invasive cosmetics.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: And it seems as though we well, there's all names for it now because we were all in the pandemic and we were sequestered and we were quarantined and we were all working virtually.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_03: Many of us, and those of us that weren't working virtually wish we were, because we'd have a ring light to illuminate our tired faces.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: And the phenomenon of the Zoom face and how people would get very upset.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: And so often I'll grab an iPad, and I always we always try to make it an interactive experience with the patient.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_03: Again, my my my love of of things being tactile and and interactive, and I always explain you don't really look like that in person.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if I take a picture at this angle, my face it looks like a fishbowl because I'm at a screen at an angle.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_03: And there's a we have a lot of conversation about that the zoom face is not necessarily how you look three-dimensionally in real life, and you look beautiful, we're all beautiful, and there's a lot of education that goes on with that.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: And sometimes I'll actually take a picture of the patient at different uh like from 12 inches away and then from three feet away, and we'll put them together.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_03: And all of a sudden it's like a light bulb that goes off, and they'll say, Oh, and I also recommend a ring light a lot for people that are upset about the zoom face, again, hence the anti-sales person um rant that my husband uh that I'm very proud of.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_03: But I think it's important to have those honest conversations, you know, and explain to the patients, you know, what you see on Instagram may not be real, you know, you don't really look the way you think you look in this two-dimensional world, and you live in a three-dimensional world, and just really to start slow and to to do the least amount you can do, I always say, for the greatest benefit.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_03: And then it has to fit your budget and your lifestyle.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_03: And nobody likes to talk about the money, but it's so important because there are just some of some individuals can afford more than others.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_03: And to be a really good, I think, provider, you have to be aware of that and not recommend things that don't work with someone's lifestyle.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_03: As you know, um, we see that in medicine.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: If we don't recommend, for example, let's say someone has diabetes, if we don't recommend a diet that's consistent with their eating style that will work for them, they're just not going to do it.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_04: And then they're disappointed.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I I could go on and rant with you about that all day too.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: No, I love it.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just I'm just listening to you because I I agree with everything you're saying.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's really, you know, uh you've you've just touched on so many very, very, very important points, hallwork points actually, because you know, um, in the field of medicine and even medical aesthetics, I think it's very important to keep in mind, obviously everything that you said, but also keep in mind that, you know, um people have to resonate with their provider.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: They have to really connect.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, to form that connection, the provider also has to be very open-minded and to not be pushy and to not, you know what I mean, force options onto people.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that is something that I think we could all learn from, you know, as people who provide medical care to individuals.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I also think that, you know, patients, you know, patients that are really, you know, they're going in and they want something done, or you know, they want some sort of cosmetic procedure done, they I'm not saying that they have low self-esteem, but there's definitely something there that they're they've been thinking about or they've been noticing about themselves that they don't particularly are the biggest fan of, right?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like it's important to uh give that perspective, like you said.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you mentioned the pictures and you mentioned like like we have to give them like all different um angles, you know, for for lack of better terms, in terms of, you know, this is what you really look like.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Now look at yourself and tell me what is it that you don't like, you know.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like it that that aspect I see very rarely um in terms of the mentality of not only you know nurse practitioners and physicians and cosmetic surgeons, but also just anybody, you know, even like people who are aestheticians, they work in a spa.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's very it's something that we all have to really, really focus on because our job is to it's like do no harm, right?
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like we learn that, we take an oath, we say do no harm, and that comes with so many different layers, and it's not just about physical stuff, it's about mentality as well.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: You shouldn't don't push someone down a road that you know in your heart that might not be the best for them, or you know, like for example, you know, I'll I just want to bring this up, you know, there's a big problem with people who get addicted to things like Botox.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you know very well about, you know, um, it's it's it's a very old topic, really, but it always comes up, and people get addicted to getting these like cosmetic procedures and they get addicted to um this idea of like, you know, just keep on fixing me, keep on fixing me.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: And there's this mental health component that comes into mind, right?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so like we all have to really understand that and keep all of these things at the forefront when we're approaching patients.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I absolutely, absolutely applaud you and agree with everything that you've said.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think there need to be there needs to be more um, you know, people who are approaching their patients like you are.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I really, really like what you explained.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I I agree with you.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_03: I agree.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I I I I think I echo the sentiment that you've expressed and a lot of my colleagues have expressed, and I say that to my patients all the time.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_03: I always say, you know, I kind of joke about it, and I say, if someone who sells these things is telling you not to do it, that's definitely advice you should listen to.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's also important, like you said, you really have to get to know the patient and understand what it is that they want.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_03: And and there's definitely it's a it's a very fine line between people who want to do these things over and over again, or you know, where there's trying to satisfy some need that the syringe is not going to fill, no matter what it is.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: And then also, you know, the on the opposite end of the spectrum, there's this, you know, uh, getting rid of the stigmata of of responsible self-care.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_03: And that's a hard line.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I always find the patient will really tell you if you listen to the patient.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: I just think that's so important.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_03: And it takes time, but if you listen to the patient, they really appreciate it.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_03: But people really just want to be heard and they want honest options, they want to know what something's gonna entail.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_03: Are they the right candidate for it?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I always think we think of the right candidate sometimes in terms of parameters that are important medically, but really not important to the person as a whole.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like, are they the right candidate?
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_03: You know, is this something that will benefit them?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: Will it enhance their natural beauty?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: You know, will they feel better?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_03: Will they like the way they look?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_03: Will they be unhappy?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: Is it something they can maintain?
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_03: And is it something that they actually need?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: Is it gonna make a difference?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_03: You know, there are some treatments that are high impact and there are some treatments that are low impact.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, sometimes when we're having conversations like for Botox, for example, there's just so many things you can do with Botox.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes I mean medically, right?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: We use it for spasticity and cerebral palsy, you know, yeah, cervical dystonia.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_03: We can try to raise the corners of the mouth, you know, by injecting the DAO muscle.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_03: But there's some areas of the, and you know, I'm admittedly, you know, I think Botox is a fantastic product and can work wonders.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_03: In some areas, it's very predictable and high impact.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_03: In some areas, you know, you may see an impact and you may not.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, are we going to achieve that?
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_03: There's a I have a lot of patients that come to me now for um masseter reduction, notify that there's this sort of um obsession now with everyone's, you know, using the classic term of the inverted triangle.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I always tell people, well, you know, that may not necessarily be the right face shape for you.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: Or, you know, let's let's see, do you have TMJ?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_03: And if you do, this might, this is just a temporary fix, you know.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_03: Let's maybe get you to see someone that can make you an appliance, you know, so that you're not grinding, so that you're not having this problem.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_03: But we also talk about the downsides of doing something like that that I think you know is important, like you know, the masseter, for example, as you know, in surgery, it's a big anchor for the the gonial angle of the face.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_03: And when we weaken that in a young person, it's okay.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_03: But as we get to be my in my neighborhood, you know, I've just approached a new neighborhood this October, so that was an interesting thing.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, it can start to, you know, um promote the formation of jowling, you know, because that's so you know, it's definitely not, you know, one size fits all, and definitely a lot of education is important in terms of really what's right for that particular patient.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_03: I think that there needs to be more of that, but that's a positive part of the pandemic.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_03: There was so much education because people were were home, so there was so much education going on.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_03: I think that patients really got um a chance to become empowered consumers, you know, which was wonderful, you know, and they could have a good conversation with their provider and for us as well.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's just you know, it's kind of I want to actually comment on the master uh reduction uh like the that specific concern that people come with because this is something I think we really especially because I have you on, and you know, with our powers combined, I think we need to put this message out there because honestly, let me be very honest and and transparent.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: This industry has a habit of promoting things that are not like it they don't ethically make sense because if you think about it and you know anything about facial anatomy or you know anything about facial muscles and their their work or what they're there for, um, you will understand the importance of the masseter muscle.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, it's an extremely important muscle.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: There is a lot of functionality, there's a lot of reasons it is the way it is, and it's um not something, in my opinion at least, that we should ever mess with.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I you know, Vanessa, I always say this, and I'm I'm also, you know, I I'm a physician, but I'm also a researcher, and I've always had this mentality, and I've always tried to advocate for this idea that the way that we are built and the way that the human body is built is not something that should be fixed, it should be learned from.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And we should come up with ways to mimic what's already happening to aid us, not go into the body itself and start like destroying things that already exist.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Unless you have obviously like a chromosomal, you know what I mean, problem from birth, or you have some sort of genetic disposition for something, or if you have, for example, like, you know, Deshain's muscular dystrophy, or like, you know, something that's really a problem.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's one of my it's one of my biggest problems with the aesthetic industry because I think it's not lying that people are doing, it's more of not sharing enough.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like in terms of education.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_03: I completely agree with that.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_03: And when you were saying that, uh a thought, a memory came through my mind of what I say to my patients all the time.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_03: I always say form in the body equals function.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_03: So, like, for example, when you know, when I'm explaining about how things work and how the muscles work, I'll say you feel that notch there, that notch is there for a reason because you know, there's an there's an artery and a nerve that are inserting there.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_03: But I always say everything in the body has a form, it has a function.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's meant to work that way.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_03: And that really speaks to exactly what you're saying.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: There's there's a lot of a lot of height put out there about these what we call new standards of beauty that are not necessarily compatible with reality or with I guess the vitality and the glorification of individual beauty.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean, if you will.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: They're not compatible.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_03: We're not supposed to be removing ribs to have excessively small waistlines, and body positivity is such a big issue with me, and just the mental health um surrounding, I echo a lot of your sentiments.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_03: We actually took our likes off of our Instagram page because I don't think that you know, I don't want to promote something because more people like it.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_03: I just want to put good content out there, you know, that's helpful and educational.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_03: But I agree with you, the body is meant to work in a specific way, and things are there for a reason.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_03: And that is the true, the true, the whole, you know, ethos of not my field, but the field of plastic surgery, right?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: I I think there was a famous plastic surgeon that said, we give back what God has given, but man has taken away.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_03: In other words, we're restoring, we're not altering.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_03: That's a big deal.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_03: And and that's the conversations we have with the patients.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like they'll say, why does this happen?
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_03: Why are my cheeks coming down to here?
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I say, because this is a normal part of aging, because you know, you're losing elastin, because you're living a happy life, you have lines because you've smiled and you've laughed.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_03: And so these this is this is the the this is the end result of living a good life.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_03: And there are things we can do to restore that, but we don't really want to change.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the the semantics of it are important, you know what I mean?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like the the words are important, the words are powerful, and I I agree the language around how we describe things needs to change.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like we can help when you're you know, we're we're losing bone, we can help to try to support that, but we don't want to change anything.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_03: We want to just make the person look like they want they look to themselves and in their eye.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's interesting, full full transparency.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: This is not an endorsement of a brand, but I I really appreciated Alargam's new marketing campaign that it wasn't like, you know, do this, you know, you know, do this, you know, pump it up, make it bigger.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_03: It was really about the person and how they see themselves and and and and what their life was like.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought that was so important.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, obviously it's it's it's a marketing campaign, so but I I liked it.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_03: I thought it had a conscience.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that um I think that more conversations need to have, as you said, an ethical conscience, and that the words need to be very specific, not to change or to alter, but to, you know, try to restore or highlight, you know, but not improve, because there's really nothing wrong with anybody, you know, we all look the way we look because, you know, these are our beautiful bones and they they were put together in a beautiful, you know, symphony of an arrangement that makes us uniquely us.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we have to that's why I love all the the inclusivity that's happening now.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: It was funny, we um we were coming up, it's it's it's sad, but in a business, you still have to think of a tagline, right?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you just really have to have a tagline, and we went through so many different ones, and I just said, you know, medical aesthetics for everyone, because it should be for everyone.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, my team's like, that sounds really basic.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, but it is, but it's it's good because that's what it should be.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes simple's okay.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: No, I I mean I I like that, and I also, you know, like it's one thing to like it's one thing for us to like tell our patients, you know, um, you know, certain things like okay, well, this is like educating them, right?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: But it's another thing to like withhold information too.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's another thing that I really just I really don't like is like withholding information, like you know, go on my rant now.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I'm I'm I'm gonna guess continue.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: I have a I have a story to tell you for now.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and and I would love to, I love that because you know, I just want to say real quickly, like, for example, you know, let's just go back to the master muscle, you know.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: For example, like your masseter muscle for everyone listening, this is one of the muscles that's um involved in mastication, which is also known as like chewing and able to move your jaw to chew and like break down the products that are in your mouth when you're you know ingesting things.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: And this muscle by itself is not responsible for it's one of them and it works together with other muscles.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: There's a total, you know, there's a total of four of them, and all of them work together.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: So when you go into a doctor's office and you go to a plastic surgeon and you say, I want layers of my uh maseter removed, um, your what you're doing and what you're actually uh predisposing yourself to are long-term complications associated with just normal functions of the body, like being able to chew the correct way, or you know, having your jaw move the right way, or like, you know, that that kind of stuff.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I just want to say that, you know, if you are a medical, like if you're a plastic surgeon out there and someone's coming to you for mass or reduction or some sort of thing that is you know in your heart and your brain and the science that you've learned, you know that this is something that's tied to a lot of different processes.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: You need to educate.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: Put your scalpel down and educate your patient because at the end of the day, you like you know, you like I said, you took an oath.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: And more importantly, um, there might be other alternatives you can offer this patient that are not going to be as debilitating later down in their years as something like that.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that was my rant.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: I just wanted to say that.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I would love to hear your story.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, it's so correct.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_03: I especially for TMJ, people think it's a quick fix, but it forms the sling of the movement of the jaw.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_03: I always tell people where does the power differential go?
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like when you shift the force, where do they think it goes?
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they're they're they're they're um the um the condyles are not gonna survive well if they have to pull the load.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_03: They're gonna run down and they're gonna look like little pencil eraser heads and not like the pretty bulbs that they should be.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: But I agree with you.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_03: But you bring up something so important, and that is truly informed consent.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_03: I always tell patients this is not a plastic surgery office, you're not undergoing a surgical procedure, but it's still a medical procedure, and you need to know all of the bad things that could happen.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_03: And many of them are quite rare, thankfully, they're quite rare.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_03: But I think that fully informed consent is something that is a very important aspect to our business, and also by continuing to do that, just gives credibility and confidence to the business.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like you can't go wrong by taking the time to give fully informed consent, even for simple things, you know, like for example, for Botox, what could happen with ptosis, tosis of the eyelid, tosis of the brow, how long does it take, you know, or distance spread, or you know, why does Botox have certain warnings?
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_03: And what populations does that apply to?
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_03: And of course, with germal fillers, the list becomes more extensive and is getting more extensive.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_03: And these things, thankfully, are exceptionally rare, you know, and then there's small complications that people need to know about, like, you know, that it this is really clean technique, not fully sterile technique.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_03: We're not in a sterile operating room, you know.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_03: We put on sterile gloves and we use sterile gloss, but it's really it's really clean.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_03: And what does that mean?
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, what are the complications that could occur, like granulomas and hypersensitivity reactions?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_03: And we talk about that and not just putting it on the consent where, you know, of course it needs to be there as well, but you need to have a conversation about it.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: And and and then I sometimes run behind on schedule because of that, which you know, my patients, you know, they're probably not happy when they're the one behind the patient that I'm explaining this to.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: But I think that's something, that's a pet peeve of mine when someone comes into me that's had something done so many times before, and they say, you know, taking them at their word, and they say, no one's ever explained that to me before.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm thinking, how could someone, you know, not explain that to you, you know, not you know, show you a box of Hylian X and why it's important to have that on hand and to always ask.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I always say, hopefully you'll never go anywhere else.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: But if you do, you know, these are come, you know, things you want to know in advance before you just, you know, say, do this to me, you know, or even just asking someone what their credentials are.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of people don't even ask, especially my younger patients.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_03: I'll always say, you should ask me what my credentials are, and they'll laugh and they'll say, Well, what are your credentials?
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll say, good question, and then I'll tell them.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_03: But those, those, those things are just important and they help our industry, they just make it better.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's not a it's not ignorance, it's like a win-win.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: And that's so rare in life to have a win-win.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_03: You know, those type of things are truly a win-win.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, I completely agree with you, and I think that also, you know, just because you have like 50,000 people that are, you know, um claiming to be, you know, licensed nurse practitioners and all this stuff doesn't mean that they're all going to be the same.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: So asking credentials is absolutely something I back you on.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think that, you know, like, you know, I always say this, and I'm gonna say it again, I only invite people onto this podcast that I think are truly experts in their field.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that we all need to have a system in place that gives people the opportunity to be exposed, equal opportunity to be exposed to real experts.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when you become an expert in medical, anything that's medically related, what I mean by that is not just years of experience, but your perspective and your willingness to expand your knowledge and your willingness to educate your patients and to answer the questions that you know they might not even know about yet, you know, but you do know about in the back of your mind.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: You do know, you know, your education taught you that.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that you brought that up and I love that you do this with your patients and then and that you spend that time because you know what?
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's real practice.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's called being a real, you know, medical practitioner.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: That is what you're supposed to do.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I also want to say this like, you know, I want to share a story with you because I think you're gonna really understand where I was coming from.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: Just literally the other day I posted on um Skincare Anarchy's Reels, and I was uh reacting to this.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh she's a she's a doctor, and you know, no bad vibes sent to her at all.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: I know that she's doing her best, and we are all doing our best.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: But one thing that I did not like was she was promoting this cream, and I'm really mad at the manufacturer of this cream because one, they obviously they named it very um racially uh like triggering, first of all.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: But second of all, the main reason I didn't like it was they were trying to tell pi people that the discoloration that comes from uh acanthosis niger cans is due to superficial skin changes.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I got so upset inside of my heart because I was like, the treatment for acanthosis nigricans, and this is for everyone listening out there, if you have discoloration or darkening of the back of your neck, like the nape of your neck, or under your armpits, especially uh for those of you who are like, you know, um more melanated, you need to understand that that is an underlying condition related to things like obesity, prediabetes, insulin resistance.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_03: So there's a lot of things there, and the it's a warning sign, it's a symptom of for needing further inquiry, you know, not just yes, yes, I am.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and this cream, honestly, Vanessa, this cream was saying use lactic acid and it'll go away.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sitting there just like, are you freaking insane?
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is not no, these patients have a real problem, like they need to be managed, you know what I mean?
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like and that's my biggest problem.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, you know, the in this industry is so vast and it's so um like saturated and it's so hard to navigate that it's like, you know, it it makes me pull my hair out.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that's really the reason I started skincare anarchy was like to try to take some of that away because people are doing things that are genuinely harming them, you know, and it just like it breaks my heart every time that I see that, every time.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_03: I am prior to working in aesthetics, um, and part of uh so a near and dear class to my heart are uh children with um this is a segue, but it's related.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_03: Is children.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I I want to talk to you about this.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is amazing.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_03: Intellectual and developmental disabilities, and that's also how I know uh craniofacial, because so many of them, you know, due to the genetic anomalies, they have a lot of craniofacial dysmorphism, like you know, a lot of cleft palates and laforts and you know, things of that nature that I'm sure you're familiar with.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's obviously different from aesthetics, but it was a good background, but it's so near and dear to my heart.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I I started this grassroots coalition that I'm hoping to get going more robustly.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's a little sidetracked with the pandemic, but I think it's a good time now.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_03: It's called the Beauty for Autism, and it's to get beauty brands on board uh to promote um not giving me anything, but to raise awareness uh for this population.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_03: But to your point about to your point and going to echothenos and Igracans in terms of you know what it really indicates and what the risk factors are, and that, you know, just boasting a treatment that not only is probably inadequate, but also can be harmful because if it had any slight improvement, you'd be masking an underlying condition that warranted an evaluation, like a workup.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_03: I would see with this population, the parents of children that have intellectual and developmental disabilities, whether it's autism or you know, rare chromosome abnormalities, or you know, downs or anything in between, you know, I hate to use the word spectrum because we associate that with autism specifically, but you know, across the spectrum, they're so desperate for someone to promise a cure.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I would hear about these treatments that providers would offer to these parents, and I'd say, no, you can't do that.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I'd explain why.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I would call the provider and I would say, you know, what are you doing?
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_03: You know, infusions and chelation therapies and all these things that are harmful and have no basis in science, have no basis in reality, uh, of any, you know, demonstrable proof of any efficacy, even in in the sense of no real even collective anecdotal evidence.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know what I mean?
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I think perhaps all those years of doing that made me sensitive to my patients now.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_03: But when someone's coming in for self-care because they're probably not feeling too good about something, they themselves are vulnerable at that time.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_03: At that level, whether or not they're vulnerable, you know, in other areas of their life, when they're or anytime anyone's a patient, even for happy things like like like you know, skin rejuvenation, they're still feeling vulnerable at that time.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_03: It's really just a um a responsibility to give them honest, transparent information and to direct them where they need to go for things that are out of the purview of uh medical aesthetics, not trying to treat something that's truly uh like a medical condition.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, for everyone listening, you know, it it this is truly an initiative that Vanessa has has really um taken on, and she's really, you know, uh in my eyes, you're you're truly a leader for doing this.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's um, you know, it it's officially called the beauty for beauty for autism, okay, and it's an ambassador program, and I and I really um I I I'm so like just delighted to hear that someone like you is doing this because this is something that I think there's very, very little education around, there's very little understanding around.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, people look at uh people, you know, individuals with autism, especially children, and they and they think of, oh, poor child or poor this, or you know, but it's like you know, there's so many, like you said, you know, I I don't like the word spectrum either, you know, by the way.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: I I really don't.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um I but you know, there's a lot of um, there's a lot of things that come with autism.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of hurdles, there's a lot of um different types of treatment options that you have to consider and approaches.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, obviously you brought up parents and educating the parents.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: So this is really something that is a very, very um big feat, and the fact that you're taking it on is remarkable.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, um truly my my uh hats off to you for doing this.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: This is uh you know, it's truly beautiful that you're doing this.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, really.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's near and dear to my heart.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_03: I have a daughter with a rare chromosome abnormality who's a delightful, wonderful, happy young woman.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so but watching her, you know, blossom and grow is just such a touchstone, and you know, and it's I always I I I do um I do research as well.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, for um, in addition, um, I do some research um at Yale University for this population uh in terms of a doctoral program there that I participate in.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I loved that I could kind of join my two passions together uh with Beauty for Autism because they went through a real um a real I guess question of conscience of my desires, like and and reconciling my two passions, you know, because they're both so important to me.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_03: I love the aesthetics industry and I love my my kids.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, many of them are adults, you know, but we always help our kids when when we're treating them.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_03: And and it's just such a nice thing.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you, thank you for mentioning that.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_03: So yes, hopefully, you know, that will will continue to grow.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_03: And and I think it's also important to show people that beauty comes in all shapes and sizes and you know, metamorphoses and incantations, and and happiness is is beauty, and that's really really the the the bottom line.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: And so many children, they're just truly happy.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, I know happy.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're not none of us are I really do subscribe to the theory that none of us are born to be, you know, hateful or angry or you know, all that.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I completely agree with you.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually want to ask you, Vanessa, how can we all support you with this um new ambassador program?
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything that we can do as just uh consumers and you know, just to have
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: Beauty brands on board, and the beauty industry has been wonderful in supporting many initiatives.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think the work that's been done in the breast cancer arena with the beauty industry has just been phenomenal.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we see beauty initiatives with pancreatic cancer um and and and in different industries, but I think really with breast cancer, it's just been just such a beautiful thing.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I find that there's no real industry that actually supports this population to the extent that it should.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_03: So it's really just that beauty um industries, different beauty brands may want to get on board, hold an event on their own where they're raising awareness for this.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_03: And it could be anything, it could be extending their workforce to include, you know, and then we would feature them as an ambassador, and then their story would hopefully inspire other beauty brands to continue to grow and so that it would grow organically.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_03: I guess um something to be important to differentiate is it's not um not a fundraising platform.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_03: We're not looking for donations or things like that.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_03: We're looking for individual brands to do good acts of expanding awareness for um um young adults with intellectual and developmental disabilities.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_03: And that could be by um diversifying their workforce.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_03: It could be, as we saw with some fashion brands, including um including, you know, children with autism, um, young adults with autism and downs in their advertising campaigns.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_03: It could be holding an event, for example, like L'Oreal or someone holding an event to raise awareness for this.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so we really just want to get it out there that the beauty industry, because I just think it's such a viable industry, and it it's some, it's it's a commonality among us all.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_03: We all look at skincare, we all read articles about beauty, we all buy lipstick.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think it's a wonderful uh sounding board to raise awareness for this population.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_03: And um, people they can um send an email or DM to beautyforautism.com if they'd like information on how they could do something.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_03: We have um get started kits on how you can implement changes in your organization, and then we'll feature people as ambassadors and just basically leading by example to inspire someone else.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_03: Again, I think you know, individual stories and brand stories are powerful and just hopefully it will grow and grow from there.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: I really love that.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope everyone listening, especially if you're somebody, you know, you don't even have to be a brand.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: If you're a big influencer and if you have a huge following, you know, I really highly suggest you hop on board.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, uh Skincare Anarchy will definitely be contributing.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: I can tell you that right now.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh, you know, anybody out there, like Vanessa said, if you've got a platform and you've got something that you can contribute and some way to raise more awareness around this topic, let's do it, you know, because autism is something, and you know, I just want to say this is some of the most magnificent and um, you know, evolutionary advances in our in our uh existence as humanity have come from people who identify with uh some sort of, you know, again, I'm gonna use this word, but they're somewhere on that spectrum of autism.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, for example, uh Ramanujan, he came up with so many different equations that were used by Stephen Hawking himself to figure out, you know, the black hole theories that he was constructing, and he was actually on the spectrum as well.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, there have been many, many, many scientists, many uh, you know, for example, savants that have uh that really have this as well.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, it this is a very multi-factorial topic.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: So um I really urge everybody out there, um, let's let's all chip in.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, let's help Vanessa really get the word out and you know, just do whatever we can.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I love that.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, Vanessa.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: This has been really fun, and I really enjoyed talking to you.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's been um very, very one of those conversations that's very um soul, you know, satisfying, if you if you know what I mean, you know, like it really, it really resonated with me to hear your perspective.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_03: I did feel that.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_03: I felt like it was what we would say, kismet.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_03: I felt kismet, which is a great, great thing.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_03: And thank you so much for having me.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I love talking with you as well, and I feel that way too.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like this was a really nice, authentic conversation, and I'm just I'm so humbled and thankful that I got to participate in it.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, of course.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: No, I I it's been an honor hosting you, and I and I absolutely love your work.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, everyone, I'm going to tag um, you know, all the relevant uh handles in the podcast art.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to continue this conversation, so please leave your comments, um, any questions you have for Vanessa, leave them in the comments.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: I will definitely pass them along to her and her team.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: And again, you know, thank you so much for tuning in, and I will be back next time.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 49:05
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