Latest / This Week On ICE / A new $70 billion windfall for ICE — and Delaney Hall data that disproves DHS misinformation

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A new $70 billion windfall for ICE — and Delaney Hall data that disproves DHS misinformation · This Week On ICE

0:06
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to This Week On ICE for June 11th, 2026.
0:09
SPEAKER_02: I'm Matt Kendrick.
0:10
SPEAKER_00: And I'm Kelly Kimball.
0:12
SPEAKER_02: We have a great show lined up for you today.
0:14
SPEAKER_02: We're joined this week by Austin Kocher of Syracuse University,
0:17
SPEAKER_02: whose work on the Trump administration's immigration crackdown has proved
0:21
SPEAKER_02: invaluable to all journalists,
0:23
SPEAKER_02: academics,
0:24
SPEAKER_02: activists working in the space.
0:25
SPEAKER_02: He joined me to talk about the
0:27
This week marks the one year anniversary of ICE raids conducted
0:29
across Los Angeles,
0:29
SPEAKER_02: resulting in the arrest of dozens of immigrants.
0:54
What quickly followed were massive citywide protests and the
0:57
first time the federal
0:59
SPEAKER_00: government would call in the National Guard in response to ICE-related
1:02
SPEAKER_00: demonstrations.
1:04
The event marked a new and unprecedented phase of the Trump
1:06
administration's
1:07
nationwide crackdown on immigrants that would spread across the
1:10
country in cities
1:11
SPEAKER_00: like Chicago,
1:12
SPEAKER_00: Minneapolis,
1:13
SPEAKER_00: Charlotte,
1:14
SPEAKER_00: and beyond.
1:15
There's no better way to talk about LA than to turn to the
1:18
local journalists
1:19
SPEAKER_00: documenting what's happened since then.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: So later in this episode,
1:23
SPEAKER_00: I sit down with Aisha Wallace-Palomares,
1:26
SPEAKER_00: Memo Torres,
1:26
SPEAKER_00: and Isi Ramirez,
1:28
SPEAKER_00: who work for the LA-based news source LA Taco.
1:31
We discussed their ongoing investigation that they've called
1:34
the Death Tracker.
1:36
It documents every single death linked to immigration
1:39
enforcement across the
1:40
SPEAKER_00: country since the start of the LA ICE raids last year.
1:43
SPEAKER_00: Stick with us.
1:48
SPEAKER_00: So Matt, you're our Washington guys.
1:51
SPEAKER_00: I'd love to turn to you first.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: Trump just signed a new bill that gave ICE a $70 billion windfall,
1:58
SPEAKER_00: putting an end to a months-long stalemate over immigration enforcement.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: And as we recall,
2:03
this stalemate in Congress led to a partial government shutdown
2:08
of the Department
2:08
SPEAKER_00: of Homeland Security.
2:10
SPEAKER_00: It brought ICE agents to airports across the country.
2:13
something like 90% of Homeland Security's 260,000 employees
2:17
worked for over a month
2:18
SPEAKER_00: without pay.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: And yet ICE now has 70 billion extra dollars in their pocket.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: Tell us what happened.
2:26
SPEAKER_02: As you mentioned,
2:26
there was this massive shutdown because of the Senate rules
2:29
around a filibuster,
2:30
SPEAKER_02: right?
2:31
So any bill in the Senate usually needs 60 votes to pass in
2:35
order to avoid this
2:36
SPEAKER_02: kind of procedural barrier wherein the opposition can hold up and
2:41
SPEAKER_02: bill essentially indefinitely.
2:43
So this 70 billion dollars that we're talking about was passed
2:45
through what's
2:46
called reconciliation which is essentially a more arcane and
2:50
more limited process
2:51
SPEAKER_02: that can be passed along strict party lines.
2:54
SPEAKER_02: And so that's really what happened.
2:56
Republican did vote against the bill Alaska's Lisa Murkowski
3:00
and then in the House
3:01
there were some attempts by Democrats to add a lot of
3:04
amendments to kind of delay
3:05
the bill but ultimately it passed along party lines in the
3:08
House as well and
3:09
SPEAKER_02: President Trump signed it so what does this mean basically
3:13
the 70 billion dollars will fund the next three years of ICE
3:17
activity and allocates
3:19
about 38 billion dollars to ICE specifically that to give you
3:24
some context is about
3:26
four times their annual budget which is about 10 billion
3:29
dollars already very high
3:31
That's also in addition to a $75 billion windfall that the
3:35
agency received last
3:36
SPEAKER_02: year during the one big beautiful bill.
3:38
SPEAKER_02: So they are pretty flush with cash over the next three years.
3:41
SPEAKER_02: And because it was passed during this reconciliation process, basically
3:46
SPEAKER_02: Democrats will have a really hard time taking any of that money away,
3:50
SPEAKER_02: even if they do win elections in November.
3:53
SPEAKER_02: It also includes about $23 billion for Customs and Border Protection,
3:57
SPEAKER_02: same deal as ICE paying their agents,
4:00
SPEAKER_02: training,
4:00
SPEAKER_02: equipping,
4:01
SPEAKER_02: blah,
4:01
SPEAKER_02: blah,
4:02
SPEAKER_02: blah,
4:02
SPEAKER_02: about $3.5 billion for technological improvements along the border,
4:05
and another $5 billion that the DHS Secretary Mark Wayne Mullen
4:09
can spend at his
4:10
SPEAKER_02: discretion.
4:11
SPEAKER_02: So,
4:12
SPEAKER_02: Overall,
4:13
SPEAKER_02: if we're going to look at the political analysis,
4:15
SPEAKER_02: did Democrats get what they wanted out of this?
4:17
SPEAKER_02: They certainly galvanized their base.
4:19
SPEAKER_02: They certainly made the administration look bad.
4:21
I think it was probably a good idea to resist the spending from
4:24
an electoral perspective.
4:26
SPEAKER_02: They did not get any of the demands that they were asking for previously,
4:30
SPEAKER_02: which included regulations around masking of agents.
4:33
SPEAKER_02: around body cameras.
4:35
SPEAKER_02: None of that came through for the Democrats.
4:37
SPEAKER_02: Really?
4:38
SPEAKER_02: No, nothing.
4:39
SPEAKER_02: They got nothing, right?
4:40
SPEAKER_02: So on that end,
4:42
SPEAKER_02: they put up this big fight,
4:43
SPEAKER_02: but the reconciliation process allowed Republicans to kind of pass their
4:47
SPEAKER_02: priorities.
4:48
It gives me some questions too as to what DHS Secretary Mark
4:52
Wayne Mullen is up to
4:53
SPEAKER_00: because while they're getting $70 billion,
4:56
SPEAKER_00: there were recent reports that DHS is going to sell
5:00
the land and ICE detention facilities that they had bought
5:04
under Kristi Noem.
5:06
So they're getting $7 billion and then they're selling land
5:10
that they had purchased
5:11
SPEAKER_00: for ICE detention facilities.
5:13
SPEAKER_00: It's not like they need the money in selling this land.
5:17
SPEAKER_00: So I'm wondering what their new calculus is with this cash.
5:21
SPEAKER_02: Let's take those one at a time.
5:22
I think that the selling of these previously purchased land is
5:26
actually a brewing
5:27
story that we'll see more of in the future because there's some
5:30
reports emerging
5:31
that the Nome administration of DHS might have paid like five
5:36
times over market
5:37
SPEAKER_02: value for some of these areas.
5:39
And it's looking as though the deportation targets that the
5:42
administration has set
5:43
SPEAKER_02: are just unrealistic.
5:45
And so having all of this land that they would need to build
5:48
facilities on that would then
5:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
6:12
SPEAKER_00: I think it's hard to conceive how much $70 billion is,
6:16
SPEAKER_00: but that's like the GDP of certain small nations in the world.
6:22
SPEAKER_02: The $70 billion is roughly equivalent to the GDP of Croatia,
6:27
SPEAKER_02: like a fairly developed country in Europe.
6:29
SPEAKER_02: It's a small country, but fairly.
6:31
SPEAKER_02: Anyway, that's that on the budget.
6:33
SPEAKER_02: Let's set aside Washington for now.
6:35
SPEAKER_02: It's a big anniversary on the other side of the country.
6:38
SPEAKER_02: This time last year, a series of ICE raids sparked mass demonstrations
6:42
SPEAKER_02: across LA.
6:43
SPEAKER_02: I think for me,
6:44
this was the point at which we could really start to document
6:48
public consciousness
6:49
SPEAKER_02: of the migration crackdown.
6:51
SPEAKER_02: So Kelly,
6:52
what makes the LA raids and subsequent mass protests so
6:55
important to discuss on
6:56
SPEAKER_02: this important anniversary?
6:58
SPEAKER_00: Yes,
6:58
SPEAKER_00: echoing what you just said,
6:59
the LA raids and then the protests that happened shortly after
7:03
the LA raids were
7:04
SPEAKER_00: marked a major hinge point in this country.
7:07
And so I'm going to remind people of what headlines all over
7:11
the country said.
7:12
And then I want to dig deeper into the real on the ground
7:15
impact in Los Angeles
7:16
SPEAKER_00: because of these raids.
7:17
So we all know that Trump deployed thousands of National Guard
7:22
members and
7:23
SPEAKER_00: activated 700 Marines throughout Los Angeles to tamp down on protests.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: But what would happen later is that a federal judge would conclude that
7:33
The administration likely violated immigrants' rights in order
7:37
to stop to these
7:38
SPEAKER_00: immigration arrests that were happening across Los Angeles.
7:41
It was really the first time we were beginning to see the
7:43
language happening in both camps.
7:45
The language of,
7:47
if you push back,
7:48
we will deploy the National Guard and the Marines.
7:50
SPEAKER_00: And also the language of, hey, these raids are actually
7:54
the results of racial profiling the results of unconstitutional
7:59
actions on the part
8:00
of the federal government these raids are not okay and they
8:02
must stop and so LA was
8:05
the beginning of everything in my opinion it became a real
8:09
testing ground for mass
8:11
SPEAKER_00: uprisings against ICE it became a testing ground for
8:14
Volunteer Community Patrols for Mutual Aid Centers for
8:18
Organizing in the Name of
8:19
SPEAKER_00: Immigrant Defense.
8:21
When I think about the headlines and what happened kind of in
8:23
the ivory tower of
8:24
SPEAKER_00: all of this,
8:25
SPEAKER_00: that was unprecedented.
8:27
SPEAKER_00: And I really want to give space to the community response thereafter.
8:31
Across Los Angeles after these raids in June 2025 that led into
8:34
July 2025,
8:35
Ordinary Tea
8:39
ordinary people like teachers and like grocery workers and bus
8:43
drivers and students
8:43
they all came together before their work day began or even long
8:47
after they clocked
8:47
out at the end of the day to not just kind of like stick it to
8:51
the man but like
8:52
defend their neighbors defend people that they knew I read this
8:55
one story about how
8:56
LA City bus drivers vowed to shut their doors if ICE agents
9:00
tried to enter their
9:01
buses and this started off as individual bus drivers and then
9:06
it kind of grew into
9:07
SPEAKER_00: LA Metro itself
9:09
releasing a statement saying that it requires law enforcement
9:11
to show a warrant
9:13
SPEAKER_00: when attempting to enter a bus.
9:15
SPEAKER_00: So it started at the grassroots,
9:17
climbed up to institutional levels across Los Angeles in so
9:21
many different pockets,
9:22
SPEAKER_00: basically.
9:23
I love this one quote in an article by the LA Public Press that
9:27
was published a
9:28
SPEAKER_00: couple of days ago.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: They interviewed an organizer with The Hill Network,
9:32
which is a grassroots group monitoring ICE and supporting
9:36
immigrants in LA's South
9:37
SPEAKER_00: Bay cities and
9:39
SPEAKER_00: and they put it this way, only community saves community.
9:43
absolutely neither of us are based in LA but we both have a lot
9:46
of love for the
9:47
city and when it comes to you know Hispanic culture in this
9:51
country and the ties
9:52
between us and Mexico and more broadly Latin America few cities
9:56
have a more
9:57
important relationship than Los Angeles but up next we are
10:01
going to speak with
10:01
Austin Kocher he has dug up some excellent data about Delaney
10:05
Hall where the hunger
10:07
strike that we've been discussing for two weeks now is ongoing
10:10
stick with us
10:17
Austin Kocher is an assistant research professor at Syracuse
10:21
University's SI
10:22
SPEAKER_02: Newhouse School of Public Communications,
10:24
where he studies the political and legal geography of
10:27
immigration enforcement in
10:28
SPEAKER_02: the United States.
10:29
He's also an affiliated expert at the Institute for Democracy,
10:32
Journalism,
10:32
and
10:32
citizenship and a research fellow at the Center for Latin
10:36
American and Latino
10:37
SPEAKER_02: Studies at American University.
10:39
SPEAKER_02: He's been featured on The New York Times,
10:41
SPEAKER_02: NPR,
10:42
SPEAKER_02: C-SPAN,
10:42
SPEAKER_02: many other eminent news outlets,
10:44
SPEAKER_02: and he writes one of the most crucial blogs for anyone interested in the
10:48
SPEAKER_02: immigration crackdown under the Trump administration,
10:51
SPEAKER_02: which you can find at austincocher.substack.com.
10:54
SPEAKER_02: We are extremely grateful to have you on This Week On ICE.
10:56
SPEAKER_02: Welcome.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: I'm really excited to have this conversation, Matt.
11:01
SPEAKER_02: I was really struck by the data you were able to dig up on Delaney Hall.
11:06
SPEAKER_02: And I wanted to start with one of the claims you investigated from the
11:09
SPEAKER_02: administration,
11:10
SPEAKER_02: which is that Delaney Hall is where ICE is housing the quote,
11:14
SPEAKER_02: worst of the worst,
11:15
SPEAKER_02: quote,
11:16
SPEAKER_02: murderers,
11:16
SPEAKER_02: rapists,
11:17
SPEAKER_02: and pedophiles.
11:18
What does the data that you found show about the actual records
11:21
of detainees being
11:22
SPEAKER_02: held in Delaney Hall?
11:24
This claim was said by an official spokesperson of the Trump
11:28
administration of DHS
11:29
SPEAKER_01: who was responding to concerns that people were being mistreated inside.
11:34
SPEAKER_01: There's obviously many other things that have been said.
11:37
DHS Secretary Markway Mullen said that people were just
11:40
complaining about not
11:41
SPEAKER_01: getting,
11:41
SPEAKER_01: quote,
11:41
SPEAKER_01: ethnic food,
11:42
SPEAKER_01: which they can get in their home country after they're deported.
11:45
SPEAKER_01: Just a whole litany of things.
11:47
SPEAKER_01: And I just want to say at the outset that on the one hand,
11:50
SPEAKER_01: I urge people to be cautious about treating some of these
11:53
SPEAKER_01: sensational claims as if they're serious.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: They're not.
11:56
There's so much political rhetoric coming out of the
11:58
administration that I wouldn't
12:00
want to lend it too much credence and credibility by treating
12:03
it as if it were an
12:04
SPEAKER_01: empirical claim.
12:06
but at the same time this is something that circulates and gets
12:08
quoted so widely
12:10
and is so demonstrably false that I feel a certain
12:13
responsibility to say especially
12:16
for people who you know there are plenty of us who would say we
12:20
know this is
12:20
polemical and rhetorical and sensational we're not going to
12:23
take it seriously but
12:24
there's a lot of people in the country who don't know enough
12:27
about the immigration
12:28
SPEAKER_01: system
12:29
SPEAKER_01: who maybe are more divided politically from a partisan perspective.
12:32
SPEAKER_01: And I feel coming from Ohio,
12:34
SPEAKER_01: growing up in a family of mostly Republican conservative voters,
12:38
SPEAKER_01: I feel a certain responsibility to say,
12:40
SPEAKER_01: look,
12:40
SPEAKER_01: when things are factually untrue and we can show that,
12:43
SPEAKER_01: we need to show that.
12:44
SPEAKER_01: And also it's about the dignity of people inside.
12:47
SPEAKER_01: When people are being represented in this way,
12:49
SPEAKER_01: if this is untrue,
12:50
SPEAKER_01: it's worth maintaining people's dignity and humanity.
12:53
SPEAKER_01: This is just false.
12:54
SPEAKER_01: So what I did was rely on data from the Deportation Data Project,
12:58
SPEAKER_01: which has made detailed records available.
13:00
It's the same kind of data that I've been working with for most
13:02
of my career,
13:03
SPEAKER_01: which is administrative data from the Department of Homeland Security.
13:07
SPEAKER_01: And we can look at that data and say,
13:10
SPEAKER_01: based on the most recent records we have,
13:12
SPEAKER_01: which are from mid-March,
13:14
SPEAKER_01: What does that population look like?
13:16
Is it filled with people who have these kinds of really awful
13:20
kinds of criminal histories?
13:22
SPEAKER_01: And the simple fact is, no, absolutely not.
13:25
Not only are most of the people in ICE's national detention
13:29
network people who
13:31
SPEAKER_01: don't have criminal histories,
13:32
Delaney Hall is actually unique in a vast majority of people in
13:36
the system have no
13:37
SPEAKER_01: criminal conviction whatsoever.
13:40
SPEAKER_01: That by itself
13:41
clearly challenges the idea of the administration that this is
13:45
filled with the
13:46
SPEAKER_01: worst of the worst.
13:47
SPEAKER_01: But even when we go into more detail and we say,
13:50
SPEAKER_01: okay,
13:50
SPEAKER_01: for people who do have convictions,
13:52
SPEAKER_01: are they all serious?
13:53
SPEAKER_01: And again, no.
13:55
We look at that data and we can see very clearly that almost
13:59
nobody who has come
14:00
SPEAKER_01: through this,
14:01
SPEAKER_01: not only is in that facility now,
14:03
SPEAKER_01: but has ever passed through the facility since it opened,
14:06
very few people have anything close to a serious criminal
14:09
conviction of any kind.
14:11
SPEAKER_01: And this is ICE's own data.
14:12
So yes,
14:13
there are people who have come through who have pretty serious
14:17
criminal offenses.
14:19
SPEAKER_01: I don't think most people are advocating some exception for them,
14:24
SPEAKER_01: but that is far less than a percent,
14:27
SPEAKER_01: in some cases less than
14:29
SPEAKER_01: 0.1% represent anything like the administration is claiming.
14:32
SPEAKER_01: So it's just,
14:32
SPEAKER_01: it's demonstrably false,
14:34
but I really wanted to drive home the fact that it's just as
14:37
big of a lie as you
14:38
SPEAKER_01: could state as a government official.
14:41
SPEAKER_01: And in my view, totally unethical and totally unprofessional.
14:44
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
14:45
SPEAKER_02: And I think even DHS's own administrative data bears that out.
14:50
You had a really interesting graph about the security
14:53
classification of detainees.
14:55
Again,
14:55
in mid-March,
14:56
this data is from last quarter at Delaney Hall,
14:59
wherein
15:00
the vast majority I think it was possibly 80% correct me if I'm
15:03
wrong there were in
15:04
the lowest possible security classification meaning they did
15:07
not pose a risk to
15:08
others and of course if somebody had murdered someone or
15:11
committed serious assaults
15:13
SPEAKER_02: on someone they might be higher up
15:16
You brought up the possibility that some of these folks who
15:19
have been leading
15:20
hunger strikes and protests at the facility might be
15:23
reclassified as retaliation.
15:25
I was wondering if you could speak a little bit about how the
15:27
classification works
15:29
and why you think there's that possibility for retaliation
15:31
among the prisoners or
15:33
SPEAKER_02: detainees,
15:34
SPEAKER_02: excuse me.
15:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, certainly.
15:36
So the detainee classification system is not something that I
15:39
understand in a
15:41
really granular level in the sense that I have not interviewed
15:44
people who are
15:44
SPEAKER_01: making those decisions.
15:46
SPEAKER_01: And that's sort of my standard for saying,
15:48
SPEAKER_01: oh,
15:48
I really understand how this works is have I really interviewed
15:51
people and reviewed
15:52
SPEAKER_01: a lot of documentation?
15:54
But understanding how the detainee classification works,
15:58
it's somewhat discretionary.
16:00
SPEAKER_01: It's an internal classification that says basically in any
16:04
SPEAKER_01: population that is in custody,
16:07
SPEAKER_01: whether that's in civil immigrant facilities,
16:09
SPEAKER_01: which these are civil facilities,
16:11
SPEAKER_01: or people who are serving prison sentences,
16:14
SPEAKER_01: there is just as a standard practice in the US and around the world,
16:18
SPEAKER_01: someone could be convicted of a serious crime.
16:20
SPEAKER_01: And once they end up in the prison,
16:23
whatever the conditions were of let's say a manslaughter charge
16:26
or a homicide
16:27
conviction let's say which is as serious as most people can
16:29
imagine that doesn't
16:31
necessarily mean that that person is going to be a danger
16:34
inside of the facility
16:36
and so this is a way for ICE to say here's the classification
16:39
levels and these
16:40
populations can be mixed together but you don't necessarily
16:43
want people who are
16:45
SPEAKER_01: who represent no threat to anyone and someone who might be,
16:48
SPEAKER_01: let's say,
16:49
SPEAKER_01: consistently really aggressive.
16:51
You can imagine why any agency would not want to have those two
16:54
groups of people mixing.
16:55
SPEAKER_01: And some people require more attention and support, let's say.
16:59
SPEAKER_01: So that's the idea here.
17:00
And so the fact that the vast majority of people in Delaney
17:03
Hall represent the
17:04
SPEAKER_01: lowest level and second lowest level of threat basically
17:09
we just set aside whether or not people even have criminal
17:12
history this is ICE and
17:13
its contractor them saying even based on our assessment now
17:18
we're saying most of
17:19
these people don't represent a threat the issue is because
17:22
that's so discretionary
17:24
what's going to happen if we can get this data updated which
17:27
ICE isn't updating it
17:29
SPEAKER_01: my concern is okay are they going to reclassify people as oh well you're
17:33
non-compliant because you're part of a hunger strike therefore
17:36
we're going to
17:37
SPEAKER_01: justify putting you in this
17:39
SPEAKER_01: high threat population.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: We're going to justify putting you into essentially what we call,
17:44
SPEAKER_01: it's not called solitary confinement,
17:46
SPEAKER_01: but there is a kind of civil solitary confinement.
17:50
And so basically using this to justify kind of retaliation and
17:55
to add more security
17:57
SPEAKER_01: protocols to people there,
17:58
SPEAKER_01: that's a concern I have.
18:00
SPEAKER_01: That's something we've seen in the past.
18:01
SPEAKER_01: I'm certainly worried that it might happen here.
18:04
SPEAKER_02: And to your point,
18:05
SPEAKER_02: we saw reporting last week about a man named Martin Soto,
18:10
SPEAKER_02: who was one of the leaders of the hunger strike at Delany,
18:13
SPEAKER_02: who was transferred to a facility in Elizabeth,
18:15
SPEAKER_02: New Jersey,
18:16
SPEAKER_02: and held in this sort of civil solitary confinement.
18:19
SPEAKER_02: movement that you mentioned.
18:20
SPEAKER_02: So I do think that that's a real possibility.
18:23
I'm curious about how you feel the politics of New Jersey and
18:27
the politics more
18:28
SPEAKER_02: nationally surrounding Delaney Hall are playing out.
18:31
You mentioned these very explicit lies and characterizations
18:34
that DHS had made
18:35
SPEAKER_02: about the nature of detainees there.
18:38
SPEAKER_02: Could you go into a little bit more depth about why the rhetoric from the
18:43
administration is so extreme and how you feel state authorities
18:48
in New Jersey as
18:49
SPEAKER_02: well as national level Democrats are responding to the situation?
18:54
This is a part of the country which is sort of its own
18:58
microcosm of politics,
19:00
SPEAKER_01: of activism,
19:01
SPEAKER_01: of political history,
19:02
SPEAKER_01: of labor history,
19:04
of politicians falling in interesting places along
19:08
non-traditional kind of party
19:10
SPEAKER_01: lines.
19:10
So I think it's been really interesting to see the way that
19:14
politicians have some
19:16
SPEAKER_01: have shown up on the front lines, have come out.
19:18
The governors of both Jersey and of New Jersey and New York
19:21
have tried to take
19:23
SPEAKER_01: positions on this that I think are generally in the right direction.
19:26
The local mayor was out there right after the facility opened
19:30
trying to get access.
19:31
SPEAKER_01: and to figure out what's going on.
19:53
SPEAKER_01: very reasonable protest given the recalcitrance of the administration.
19:57
SPEAKER_01: And I think that national Democrats,
20:00
SPEAKER_01: I think,
20:01
have been rallying a little bit around this issue because it's
20:04
gotten so much news
20:07
to use this to highlight the more broad concerns that we all
20:11
have about the
20:12
SPEAKER_01: national expansion of immigrant detention.
20:15
SPEAKER_01: President Trump himself and immigration authorities have really
20:18
SPEAKER_01: Tried to go after places that are very blue, democratic urban areas.
20:22
And so it's exactly the kind of fight that you can imagine
20:26
would happen under this
20:27
SPEAKER_01: administration.
20:28
And it's important because Delaney Hall is not the biggest
20:31
facility in the country.
20:32
SPEAKER_01: It may or may not be the worst facility in the country.
20:35
SPEAKER_01: I don't know how you would even calculate that.
20:37
But it's so important to have these moments where all of the
20:42
problems of the
20:43
detention system get enough attention at one place that it
20:46
helps people to imagine
20:48
SPEAKER_01: how widespread the problems are across the whole system.
20:51
SPEAKER_02: You know,
20:51
SPEAKER_02: just to double click on your point about targeting these blue cities,
20:55
SPEAKER_02: I actually used to live very close to Delaney Hall in Jersey City,
20:59
SPEAKER_02: New Jersey.
20:59
SPEAKER_02: And within just a few blocks of my apartment,
21:02
you had one of the largest South Asian communities anywhere
21:04
outside of South Asia
21:05
SPEAKER_02: in the world.
21:06
you had a massive Filipino community,
21:08
massive Hispanic community in the Jersey Heights.
21:11
And so the location of Delaney Hall is also in one of the
21:15
centers of the immigrant
21:18
experience in the United States and one of the places where
21:20
immigrants have been
21:20
SPEAKER_02: most successful.
21:21
is very close to Queens,
21:23
famously the most linguistically diverse region anywhere in the
21:26
world.
21:27
I did want to zoom out a little bit from Delany because we had
21:30
a very unfortunate
21:31
SPEAKER_02: milestone this week with the death of Mamuka Artmeladze.
21:35
SPEAKER_02: I'm probably mispronouncing that.
21:37
He was a Georgian national who became the 50th detainee to die
21:41
under the Trump
21:41
SPEAKER_02: administration's crackdown.
21:43
SPEAKER_02: Could you help us contextualize
21:46
is passing within the unconscionable conditions many detainees
21:50
are reporting in
21:51
SPEAKER_02: these detention facilities.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: Yes, for sure.
21:55
What we've seen,
21:55
and this has always been the case,
21:57
but it's exacerbated in this administration.
22:00
Most of the immigrant detention system is contracted out to
22:04
private contractors,
22:04
which means there's a financial incentive not to provide the
22:08
best healthcare,
22:09
SPEAKER_01: the best food,
22:09
SPEAKER_01: the best conditions.
22:11
SPEAKER_01: There's an incentive merely,
22:13
SPEAKER_01: I would even say to meet standard,
22:15
SPEAKER_01: but not even meet standard,
22:16
SPEAKER_01: just get by and not have to close.
22:18
SPEAKER_01: There's very few consequences for facilities not meeting standards.
22:22
SPEAKER_01: So when they fail inspection,
22:24
SPEAKER_01: they're required to address some of the issues,
22:26
SPEAKER_01: but it's not as if a facility,
22:28
SPEAKER_01: it's not as if ICE closes facilities because it fails to meet standard.
22:32
So there's very low consequence and obviously very high risk to
22:35
people who are in detention.
22:37
SPEAKER_01: And that's generally true.
22:38
It's even more true when we have such a rapid scaling up of the
22:43
detention system.
22:44
We've gone from less than 40,000 people in detention to a
22:47
height of over 70,000
22:48
SPEAKER_01: people in detention.
22:49
SPEAKER_01: and so there's been lots of what's been described as overcrowding,
22:52
overcapacity facilities where I've talked to family members
22:56
whose spouses are
22:57
detained and people are doing what's called hot bunking so you
23:01
get a bed but you
23:02
maybe only get it for 8 or 12 hours a day because you're
23:04
sharing it or you're
23:05
SPEAKER_01: sleeping on the floor
23:06
There was the case of the double amputee in Georgia who
23:10
literally didn't even have
23:12
the medical equipment that he needed and had to drag himself
23:15
across a dirty shower
23:16
SPEAKER_01: floor just to use the restroom and shower himself.
23:19
SPEAKER_01: I mean, just awful, awful conditions.
23:21
SPEAKER_01: And so
23:21
So all of that combined just means that you have a system
23:26
that's ripe for loss of
23:28
SPEAKER_01: life and for complicated medical issues.
23:31
SPEAKER_01: People come to detention facilities.
23:33
SPEAKER_01: You pull 1,000 people off the street,
23:35
SPEAKER_01: some percent of people are going to have chronic medical issues.
23:39
Some percent of people are going to not have significant
23:43
medical issues previously.
23:45
whose detention conditions are going to then exacerbate or
23:49
inflame those what were
23:50
SPEAKER_01: previously manageable health conditions.
23:52
SPEAKER_01: And so that's the condition that we have in detention facilities.
23:55
SPEAKER_01: We've seen, I think, record number of suicides this year.
23:58
SPEAKER_01: Five of the deaths,
23:59
SPEAKER_01: I believe,
23:59
so far have been suicides since the start of the year or since
24:02
the start of the
24:02
SPEAKER_01: Trump administration.
24:03
SPEAKER_01: This is not an accident.
24:05
SPEAKER_01: That's not something you can reduce to the actions of a person.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: That is a mental health
24:09
crisis that people may be able to manage outside with family
24:14
and social supports
24:15
SPEAKER_01: and the church or faith community and adequate therapy.
24:19
SPEAKER_01: And all of a sudden you throw someone in a facility,
24:21
SPEAKER_01: of course those things are going to exacerbate.
24:24
SPEAKER_01: So in this case,
24:25
we don't have the reason that we don't have the cause of death
24:28
from Mamuka,
24:29
SPEAKER_01: but we know he was apparently found unresponsive.
24:32
SPEAKER_01: We don't know how long he was unresponsive.
24:35
SPEAKER_01: We don't know if someone found him
24:37
SPEAKER_01: and said, oh, he'll be fine.
24:39
SPEAKER_01: We have no idea and we probably won't know for a long time.
24:43
SPEAKER_01: So we don't know all the conditions.
24:45
SPEAKER_01: But one of the things that we do know,
24:47
SPEAKER_01: which is just fundamental,
24:48
SPEAKER_01: is he shouldn't have been there in the first place.
24:51
SPEAKER_01: He had absolutely no criminal history.
24:54
SPEAKER_01: He was not a national security threat.
24:55
SPEAKER_01: He wasn't even the target of any arrest.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: He was scooped up because he was near the arrest of someone else.
25:02
SPEAKER_01: He was what's called a collateral arrest.
25:04
SPEAKER_01: that's the reason he ended up in detention.
25:06
SPEAKER_01: And it's not clear,
25:07
SPEAKER_01: not only did he not have any criminal history,
25:10
it's actually not clear that he ever violated any immigration
25:14
law whatsoever.
25:15
The announcement that ICE put out simply said that he was
25:18
arrested and he was found
25:20
SPEAKER_01: to not have a legal authorization to remain in the country.
25:24
SPEAKER_01: That is code for saying even if someone did enter lawfully and they had
25:30
SPEAKER_01: This Week On ICE Podcast
25:52
SPEAKER_01: looks like you're deportable and threw him in detention.
25:55
SPEAKER_01: And he died 119 days later.
25:57
So in a way he represents the worst case scenario of exactly
26:02
what we say when we
26:03
SPEAKER_01: say we don't want indiscriminate immigration enforcement.
26:06
SPEAKER_01: This is bad.
26:07
SPEAKER_01: It's dangerous.
26:08
SPEAKER_01: It's not good for the country.
26:09
SPEAKER_01: It's not doing anybody any good.
26:12
SPEAKER_01: And it's doing a lot of damage.
26:14
SPEAKER_02: and yeah,
26:15
to hold a man for three months with no possibility of release
26:18
on essentially no
26:20
SPEAKER_02: charge,
26:20
it seems to violate every principle of rule of law that we
26:23
could possibly imagine.
26:25
Well,
26:25
Austin,
26:25
on that note,
26:26
thank you very much for joining us on This Week On ICE.
26:28
SPEAKER_02: It was terrific as always.
26:30
SPEAKER_02: Folks should absolutely check out your blog.
26:32
SPEAKER_02: That is again, austincocher.substat.com.
26:35
SPEAKER_02: Where else should people look for your work?
26:37
I'm on all of the social media sites because my last name is
26:40
K-O-C-H-E-R,
26:42
Austin.
26:43
SPEAKER_01: I'm pretty easy to find, but I'm on all the social.
26:45
So whatever you prefer,
26:47
I try to put out as much information as I can and have
26:50
conversations.
26:51
But definitely the Substack is the home of the vast majority of
26:54
the work that I do
26:55
SPEAKER_01: these days.
26:55
Matt,
26:56
I'm so grateful for you having me on and thank you for your
26:59
work as well.
27:00
SPEAKER_02: It was our pleasure.
27:00
SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much, Austin.
27:02
SPEAKER_02: Thanks.
27:04
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Austin.
27:05
SPEAKER_00: Up next,
27:06
SPEAKER_00: I speak with the investigative team at LA Taco,
27:09
SPEAKER_00: which include Aisha Wallace-Palomares,
27:11
SPEAKER_00: Memo Torres,
27:11
SPEAKER_00: and Isi Ramirez,
27:13
who explained to me the story behind their new tracker that
27:16
documents every death
27:18
that has occurred under ICE custody or shortly after custody
27:21
since last year.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: Stick with us.
27:27
SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, Kelly here.
27:28
SPEAKER_00: We founded This Week On ICE in February of this year,
27:31
SPEAKER_00: and in just a few short months,
27:33
SPEAKER_00: we've been incredibly grateful for the response we've received so far.
27:37
SPEAKER_00: Many of you are listening from across the U.S.
27:40
SPEAKER_00: and in countries like Mexico,
27:41
SPEAKER_00: Germany,
27:42
SPEAKER_00: Colombia,
27:43
SPEAKER_00: and the U.K.
27:44
We're so proud to inform you that our show has been awarded a
27:47
seed grant by the
27:48
Fund for Investigative Journalism to help deepen our original
27:51
reporting and hold
27:53
SPEAKER_00: power to account as Trump's immigration crackdown continues.
27:57
but we need your help if this show has helped keep you informed
28:01
and empowered in
28:02
any way please consider sharing our show with a friend giving
28:05
us a 5 star rating on
28:06
Apple Podcasts or Spotify or even pledging financial support on
28:10
Substack it's your
28:12
listenership that is the engine of our independent journalism
28:16
in a recent interview
28:17
with the New York Times former 60 Minutes correspondent Scott
28:20
Pelley said it best
28:21
SPEAKER_00: there is no democracy without journalism it can't be done
28:26
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening and on with the show.
28:32
SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to This Week On ICE.
28:34
SPEAKER_00: I am here with the investigative team at LA Taco.
28:37
They are working to track every single death linked to
28:40
immigration enforcement
28:41
SPEAKER_00: since the Trump administration's ICE raids began last year.
28:46
Their team is basically building a searchable register for
28:49
every person who has
28:50
SPEAKER_00: died in ICE custody during enforcement actions,
28:53
SPEAKER_00: in shootings,
28:54
SPEAKER_00: or after their release since January 2025.
28:58
Right now,
28:58
the register is organized by category,
29:00
country,
29:01
year,
29:02
and name.
29:02
SPEAKER_00: So I'm with Aisha Wallace-Palomares, Memo Torres, and Izzy Ramirez.
29:07
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for joining.
29:09
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having us.
29:10
SPEAKER_03: We're excited to be here.
29:11
SPEAKER_00: So I'll go ahead and jump in.
29:13
How did this investigation get started and what caused you to
29:16
jump right in?
29:17
SPEAKER_03: We started reporting on the first deaths here at Adelanto,
29:20
SPEAKER_03: which is the closest detention facility closest to Los Angeles.
29:24
SPEAKER_03: And,
29:24
SPEAKER_03: you know,
29:25
SPEAKER_03: as we started reporting on more deaths as they started to happen,
29:28
SPEAKER_03: we realized there was two different versions.
29:30
SPEAKER_03: There was like what actually happened,
29:32
what the family knew versus what DHS would report and how DHS
29:36
were reported.
29:37
So we started noticing like,
29:38
you know,
29:38
there's more to the story on each person.
29:40
SPEAKER_03: So
29:41
SPEAKER_03: We figured out like,
29:42
SPEAKER_03: you know,
29:42
we should probably try to get the information and the real
29:44
stories for everybody to
29:45
SPEAKER_03: try to humanize them and honor them.
29:47
SPEAKER_03: So we decided to create this list and it took us months.
29:50
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it was five or six months worth of work.
29:53
SPEAKER_03: We had an intern help us as well.
29:54
SPEAKER_03: She's also credited on the story.
29:57
SPEAKER_03: And we just wanted to make sure that every story got a full story,
30:01
not just what DHS and their press releases released because
30:04
they were very
30:05
SPEAKER_03: dehumanizing.
30:05
SPEAKER_03: A lot of these folks just didn't deserve to die in detention.
30:08
SPEAKER_03: I don't think anybody deserves to die in detention.
30:12
And I think it's been sort of difficult even for the media for
30:16
us to keep track of,
30:17
SPEAKER_02: you know,
30:17
SPEAKER_02: when deaths happen.
30:19
And so this list was also helpful for us to make sure that
30:22
we're reporting the
30:23
SPEAKER_02: correct amount of numbers.
30:24
SPEAKER_02: And,
30:25
SPEAKER_02: you know,
30:25
SPEAKER_02: we started to notice that there was these deaths that were happening,
30:29
SPEAKER_02: not necessarily in detention.
30:31
but sort of in circumstances relating to federal immigration
30:35
operations and also
30:36
SPEAKER_02: even post being released from detention.
30:39
SPEAKER_02: So we realized, you know, it's not just deaths in custody, right?
30:44
SPEAKER_02: There's these other deaths that are tied to,
30:47
SPEAKER_02: I guess,
30:48
this wider Trump policy that maybe if it hadn't occurred may
30:51
not have occurred.
30:53
SPEAKER_02: And so that's why we divided it into categories,
30:56
SPEAKER_02: which are in custody deaths,
30:57
SPEAKER_02: which is the largest amount,
30:59
SPEAKER_02: enforcement actions,
31:00
SPEAKER_02: mass shootings,
31:01
SPEAKER_02: off-duty agent,
31:02
SPEAKER_02: and following release.
31:04
SPEAKER_02: And right now, the current total is 66.
31:06
There was just a death that happened when correctional facility
31:10
on June 4th,
31:11
I believe.
31:13
So 66 total deaths that you're tracking at the time of this
31:17
recording and I also
31:19
want to note like at least one of them by an off-duty agent
31:23
unless that was the
31:24
updated number and then at least six shortly after release Are
31:28
there any specific
31:29
stories or maybe cases that have fallen beneath the top fold
31:34
that stick out to you
31:35
SPEAKER_00: from your investigation?
31:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah
31:38
the one that's interesting i guess is the one with the blind
31:41
refugee since his
31:44
because it was just such a bizarre case because he was arrested
31:48
allegedly for
31:48
hitting a police officer he's a blind gentleman he was going on
31:51
a walk he was using
31:53
a stick as a cane he ended up going on to someone's residence
31:56
and she called the
31:56
police and what police is saying is that he hit one of the
32:00
agents when they were
32:01
SPEAKER_01: trying to arrest him and so they sent him to the police
32:04
and when he was finally being released he was taken to ICE
32:06
custody and the thing is
32:08
that he's a refugee he's not subject to deportation he can't be
32:11
deported he's here
32:12
on a legal status so when he was getting released from jail and
32:16
taken to ICE
32:17
custody the Border Patrol units actually came over to grab him
32:21
and they realized
32:21
that he can't he's not supposed to be placed into any sort of
32:25
ICE detention center
32:26
so he was released from jail Border Patrol picked him up
32:29
because he had an old ICE
32:30
SPEAKER_01: detainer that was lodged that should have been
32:33
SPEAKER_01: is a production of
32:55
who originally they said I think committed suicide but then
32:58
they found that he died
32:59
from forced asphyxia I think is what it was so they choked him
33:02
so there's multiple
33:04
homicides included in this list but those are the ones that
33:07
stuck out to me the
33:07
most because we've just from all the research that we've done
33:10
in such a short time
33:12
frame to go from these alleged suicides to homicides is just
33:15
striking and it's
33:17
it's frankly shocking and a little scary and I just want to
33:20
note that this report
33:21
really wouldn't be possible without the amazing journalism
33:25
that's been done by
33:26
local news outlets as well like the Miami Herald followed some
33:30
of those first
33:30
SPEAKER_02: deaths in detention that happened in early 2025 and found that
33:36
SPEAKER_02: found negligence in these detention centers.
33:40
So it was also kind of a way to attribute the journalism that's
33:43
really sort of been
33:45
SPEAKER_02: at the core of holding this administration accountable.
33:48
These cases really change day by day and they also have
33:51
competing narratives
33:52
SPEAKER_00: depending on the source of that information.
33:55
I'm really curious to know how you have been able to track and
34:00
sustain the tracking
34:01
SPEAKER_00: of each of these individual cases.
34:03
SPEAKER_00: And then on top of that,
34:04
What specific levers of justice or accountability are available
34:09
to the families of
34:10
SPEAKER_00: those who have died,
34:11
SPEAKER_00: or at least what have you seen so far?
34:14
SPEAKER_03: The level of tracking went in deep.
34:16
SPEAKER_03: We went as far as like going through Facebook posts and Instagram posts,
34:20
finding cousins or family members or folks or the family
34:23
members back in their
34:25
SPEAKER_03: hometowns in whether it be Mexico or in any other country,
34:28
trying to get in touch with those folks and trying to get their
34:30
side to sort of see
34:31
SPEAKER_03: what they found out.
34:32
SPEAKER_03: In a lot of cases, they didn't even have information.
34:34
SPEAKER_03: We had more information than they did.
34:35
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
34:36
It was really interesting to just to see how hard it was to get
34:41
what we could and
34:42
SPEAKER_03: verify that information.
34:44
and as far as for like the legal consequences I mean I haven't
34:47
seen anything as far
34:48
as levers of accountability I mean one thing that families can
34:51
do is file a lawsuit
34:53
you know against DHS or against like the detention center
34:57
operators themselves I
34:59
don't know that any of the ones for the past year have been
35:03
successful and you know
35:05
SPEAKER_02: this is also in a time when
35:07
a lot of these sort of oversight mechanisms have been scaled
35:11
back at great lengths
35:12
when it comes to detention centers but for example like the
35:16
glass house raid that
35:18
SPEAKER_02: happened where
35:21
SPEAKER_02: where a man died during that immigration operation.
35:24
His family did file a wrongful death lawsuit against ICE for a
35:29
$47 million federal tort claim.
35:32
Also,
35:32
Ismael Ayala Uribe,
35:34
who we were one of the first outlets to report on his death.
35:37
SPEAKER_02: We were the first outlet to talk to his family about what happened.
35:41
SPEAKER_02: And he was the first death in Adelanto in 2025.
35:44
SPEAKER_02: His family actually is suing
35:49
SPEAKER_02: geo-group for his death.
35:51
SPEAKER_02: And,
35:51
SPEAKER_02: you know,
35:51
SPEAKER_02: they're alleging that there was a wrongful death,
35:54
SPEAKER_02: indifference to medical needs,
35:56
SPEAKER_02: unconstitutional conditions of confinement and negligence.
35:59
SPEAKER_02: But honestly, I mean, there should be more, right?
36:01
There should be more options for families who have had their
36:05
loved ones die in
36:06
detention or as a cause of federal migration enforcement
36:10
operations other than
36:12
SPEAKER_02: lawsuits.
36:12
But right now,
36:13
you know,
36:13
this is a very difficult time for any accountability person
36:16
even outside of immigration to happen with this current
36:19
administration You had
36:21
mentioned that you were one of the first or the first
36:24
publication to approach the
36:25
family who had the first recorded death in Adelanto I'm curious
36:29
to know what has it
36:31
been like approaching these families asking them to share their
36:34
story What has that
36:35
SPEAKER_00: experience been like for your team?
36:38
SPEAKER_03: So we're talking about Ismael Uribe Ayala.
36:41
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we reached out to the family.
36:42
It's just one of the hardest things is reaching out to them in
36:46
their worst times,
36:47
SPEAKER_03: you know,
36:48
when they themselves are trying to process it and you're trying
36:51
to get information
36:52
SPEAKER_03: that they barely are getting themselves.
36:56
SPEAKER_03: It's one of the most difficult parts about writing this death list,
36:59
SPEAKER_03: dealing,
36:59
SPEAKER_03: you know,
36:59
SPEAKER_03: talking with the brother and the mother.
37:02
SPEAKER_03: and the emotions that they just convey and the disbelief.
37:07
SPEAKER_03: That's probably the hardest part of reporting on these stories.
37:10
Even outside of like deaths,
37:13
just immigration coverage has been really difficult this year.
37:17
SPEAKER_02: You know,
37:17
we talk a lot with families whose loved ones have been detained
37:21
and taken to these
37:22
SPEAKER_02: detention centers where now we know,
37:24
SPEAKER_02: you know,
37:24
SPEAKER_02: there's been at least,
37:25
SPEAKER_02: you know,
37:25
SPEAKER_02: over 50 deaths linked to them and it's scary.
37:30
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, a lot of the families we work with don't know what to do.
37:32
SPEAKER_02: They don't know what the next step is.
37:34
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's really difficult.
37:36
SPEAKER_02: There's a sort of lack of education and we're in an unprecedented time.
37:40
So,
37:41
you know,
37:41
sometimes we as journalists don't even know what to do,
37:44
right?
37:44
Another thing that family members can do is that they can
37:47
request medical records.
37:49
Autopsy reports like that,
37:50
those are requests that family members can make and obtain.
37:54
SPEAKER_01: They can also request a private autopsy,
37:56
SPEAKER_01: which is really important,
37:57
SPEAKER_01: that the one at the medical examiner might rule one condition,
38:00
SPEAKER_01: but then a second one will affirm something else.
38:03
SPEAKER_01: Like for Neural, the homicide
38:05
autopsy conclusion came when they saw a different medical
38:09
examiner originally they
38:10
didn't they just were saying that he died of I think it was
38:13
like hypothermia and
38:14
they ruled it a homicide and then we also spoke with the family
38:17
of Gabriel Garcia
38:18
Aviles when I spoke with the daughter of Gabriel she was she
38:22
kept pausing every
38:23
like five minutes because she was kind of in disbelief that she
38:25
was even having
38:26
SPEAKER_01: this conversation like she couldn't even
38:28
SPEAKER_01: wrap her mind around the fact that he was completely gone.
38:31
And then a huge issue is that not all of them really get to see
38:34
the deceased person afterwards.
38:35
It's a huge process that you even really get those details
38:39
after they have like up to a month.
38:41
They usually wait up to like a month before they get any
38:43
details and then it never
38:44
SPEAKER_01: corroborates with what they were originally saying.
38:45
Like with him,
38:47
they were saying it was complications from alcoholism and they
38:49
were saying that
38:51
they saw him he was bruised he had teeth ever missing it looked
38:53
like someone like
38:54
beat him so a lot of it just didn't make any sense I don't
38:57
think it's a viable
38:58
conclusion that DHS is making so just trying to affirm with
39:02
them that I'm kind of
39:03
SPEAKER_01: like believing what they're saying I think is what's also helped you know
39:06
otherwise they really wouldn't trust us to keep going because
39:09
at some point during
39:10
these conversations when I have with these people they kind of
39:12
have this like surge
39:14
to to like avenge you know like what happened to get like the
39:17
truth out there and
39:18
they kind of give more details and it's just really helpful
39:21
like that you know just
39:23
to kind of affirm what it is that they're experiencing
39:25
reminding them that it's
39:26
SPEAKER_01: wrong because I believe it's wrong
39:28
It was recently reported that ICE will no longer report deaths
39:31
of detainees who
39:33
SPEAKER_00: have been released from their custody.
39:36
SPEAKER_00: How does this change or impact your investigation?
39:40
Well,
39:40
for my part,
39:40
I don't think they really reported like any of them anyways.
39:45
SPEAKER_03: I mean, they had the policy.
39:47
SPEAKER_03: They never really followed it.
39:48
SPEAKER_03: And now they just kind of eliminated the policy.
39:51
SPEAKER_03: So the reporting doesn't really change as much.
39:53
SPEAKER_03: Like we have at least six
39:55
SPEAKER_03: cases on our list of people who have died after release.
39:59
This includes someone who passed away after deportation,
40:03
shortly after deportation back home.
40:04
SPEAKER_03: It includes the cases we just discussed.
40:07
We have folks from here in LA that were released shortly after
40:10
Adelanto and passed
40:11
SPEAKER_03: away from deteriorating conditions,
40:13
SPEAKER_03: health conditions,
40:13
that didn't get the attention that they needed while they were
40:16
in detention
40:16
SPEAKER_03: centers.
40:18
We've seen instances where they try to release people and say
40:21
that they're released
40:22
SPEAKER_03: by sending them to the hospital.
40:24
SPEAKER_03: to try to not get the credit on them that they died in ICE detention.
40:27
So that,
40:27
you know,
40:28
it's like,
40:28
oh no,
40:28
they died at the hospital,
40:29
not at detention.
40:31
We suspect they might be doing a lot,
40:33
are going to try to do a lot more of that.
40:35
SPEAKER_03: So try to kind of clean their hands and wash their hands on that.
40:38
SPEAKER_02: We did reach out for comment to ICE and DHS for a report.
40:42
SPEAKER_02: Specifically,
40:43
SPEAKER_02: we asked comment on the six deaths that we reported that happened,
40:47
SPEAKER_02: you know,
40:47
SPEAKER_02: after they were released from ICE's attention.
40:50
SPEAKER_02: This is the comment that they gave us,
40:51
SPEAKER_02: which is,
40:52
SPEAKER_02: ICE makes official notifications to Congress,
40:55
SPEAKER_02: non-governmental organizations,
40:57
SPEAKER_02: stakeholders,
40:57
and the media upon official reports of in-custody alien deaths
41:01
and posts news
41:02
SPEAKER_02: releases with relevant details on ICE's public website.
41:07
And that's pretty much what they said regarding the six deaths
41:11
that we reported
41:12
SPEAKER_02: that happened following people in detention.
41:15
SPEAKER_02: And so, I mean, in that statement, there's really no accountability.
41:19
They also didn't refer us back to that 30-day policy that,
41:23
you know,
41:24
they,
41:24
I guess,
41:25
had.
41:26
SPEAKER_02: And now,
41:26
SPEAKER_02: I mean,
41:27
SPEAKER_02: the 30-day policy is not in place,
41:30
SPEAKER_02: but,
41:31
SPEAKER_02: you know,
41:32
SPEAKER_02: I don't know that it makes that much difference.
41:36
One of the things that we've been debating heavily is that
41:40
there's other deaths
41:41
that have occurred and we've been debating if to include them
41:45
on the list and if so
41:46
SPEAKER_03: how.
41:47
For example,
41:47
there's the two trans women,
41:50
right,
41:50
that were deported to Haiti.
41:52
SPEAKER_03: these are asylum seekers that were in the U.S.
41:54
because they feared for their lives because their lives were
41:57
being threatened back
41:58
home and here we're starting to see cases where people were
42:02
deported back to their
42:04
home and what happened these two trans Haitian women were found
42:08
decapitated you
42:09
SPEAKER_03: know and there's cases like that that we're hearing about in
42:13
SPEAKER_03: and look up,
42:14
SPEAKER_03: DHS claims they've deported half a million people and I haven't,
42:18
SPEAKER_03: you know,
42:19
it's hard to track what's happening to those people in most
42:21
countries because when
42:22
SPEAKER_03: they get there,
42:23
SPEAKER_03: they get there without any of their belongings.
42:25
SPEAKER_03: They take their wallets,
42:26
SPEAKER_03: they take their jewelry,
42:26
SPEAKER_03: they take their phones,
42:27
SPEAKER_03: they take their paperwork,
42:28
SPEAKER_03: their identifications.
42:30
So sometimes,
42:30
like,
42:30
you know,
42:30
I was just talking with a woman who represents people in Ghana.
42:35
SPEAKER_03: Some people are getting sent to Ghana that aren't from Ghana.
42:38
SPEAKER_03: And she's like, and the problem we're seeing is, like, we...
42:40
SPEAKER_03: We can't track them,
42:41
SPEAKER_03: we can't help them,
42:42
SPEAKER_03: we can't send them money because how do you open an account?
42:44
SPEAKER_03: How do you claim your money without an ID?
42:46
SPEAKER_03: So how do you get an ID without any other paperwork or proof?
42:51
SPEAKER_03: How do they reach out to people?
42:53
So we don't know how many people out there have been placing
42:56
these conditions that
42:57
SPEAKER_03: are,
42:57
SPEAKER_03: you know,
42:58
SPEAKER_03: a huge risk for their lives.
43:00
SPEAKER_03: How many have died because of the situation?
43:03
SPEAKER_03: Like we just, there's so many people we don't know.
43:05
SPEAKER_03: And so how do, the ones we do hear about, how do we categorize that?
43:08
SPEAKER_03: Do we include them?
43:09
SPEAKER_03: We feel it's because of ICE deporting them.
43:12
SPEAKER_03: You know,
43:12
SPEAKER_03: they were here with an asylum case and then got deported during,
43:16
SPEAKER_03: while having an asylum case pending,
43:18
SPEAKER_03: trying to do it the right way.
43:21
Memo Izzy Aisha thank you so much for your time I'm sure we
43:24
could go on and on
43:25
talking about this specific topic but I'll leave it at that and
43:27
I will be sure that
43:29
all of our listeners are aware of your ongoing investigation
43:32
we're going to link it
43:33
in our newsletter thank you so much for the effort that you're
43:36
putting into this
43:37
investigation I hope you all take care of yourselves in the
43:40
meantime as you work on
43:41
it and I look forward to following your work as well thank you
43:45
so much thanks Kelly
43:47
SPEAKER_02: it was great talking to you
43:50
SPEAKER_02: That's it for us this week.
43:51
SPEAKER_02: Thank you to Austin Kocher and the folks from LA Taco.
43:54
SPEAKER_02: We really appreciate your time and energy.
43:57
SPEAKER_02: Thank you all for listening.
43:58
As always,
43:58
you can reach us at thisweekonice at gmail.com for questions,
44:03
comments,
44:03
tips.
44:04
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44:06
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44:07
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44:10
And in the meantime,
44:11
stay safe,
44:12
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44:13
and we'll see you next time.