Latest / ChangeMakers with Katie Goar / Episode 132: Greta J. Harris, President & CEO, Better Housing Coalition

Transcript

Episode 132: Greta J. Harris, President & CEO, Better Housing Coalition · ChangeMakers with Katie Goar

0:05
Speaker 1: This is change Makers with Katie Gore finding the right
0:09
Speaker 1: solutions for the affordable housing community.
0:13
Speaker 2: Today's change maker is Greta Harris, the president and CEO
0:18
Speaker 2: of Better Housing Coalition. For many years, Greta has led
0:23
Speaker 2: Richmond's region as being the largest nonprofit developer of affordable housing.
0:29
Speaker 2: With that intro, Greta, I am honored to have you
0:32
Speaker 2: here and welcome to the change Makers Podcast.
0:35
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Katie. I'm really happy to have
0:38
Speaker 3: this conversation with you.
0:40
Speaker 2: So, Greta, are you familiar with the change Makers platform
0:44
Speaker 2: and were you able to take a chance or look
0:47
Speaker 2: through some of the prior podcast guests. I'm kind of
0:49
Speaker 2: curious because we found you in such an interesting way,
0:53
Speaker 2: and I'll get to that in a minute, but before that,
0:56
Speaker 2: tell us a little bit about change because this is
1:02
Speaker 2: a curious point, like how we find you, what you
1:04
Speaker 2: know about us?
1:07
Speaker 3: Well, I think you all found me. And I'm embarrassed
1:11
Speaker 3: to say I had not heard about the podcast before
1:16
Speaker 3: the outreach, But once I went to your website and
1:21
Speaker 3: I started looking at your previous recordings, I was like,
1:25
Speaker 3: oh my goodness, I know a lot of people that
1:28
Speaker 3: have been interviewed by you and then I listened to
1:31
Speaker 3: some of them, and you know, the the affordable housing
1:35
Speaker 3: world is actually pretty small compared to you know, global dynamics,
1:43
Speaker 3: and so I just saw so many of my friends
1:47
Speaker 3: that did such a great job, and so they set
1:49
Speaker 3: a high bar and I hope I can do likewise.
1:53
Speaker 2: Well, welcome and thank you for taking the time here.
1:56
Speaker 2: We do a lot of research into who comes on
2:00
Speaker 2: the podcast. Obviously it's called change Makers, and we're really
2:03
Speaker 2: trying to find innovators and leaders in the field. So
2:07
Speaker 2: we found you by actually looking in what was happening
2:12
Speaker 2: with Richmond. We were very curious and of course that
2:16
Speaker 2: led us directly to you. So why didn't you start
2:20
Speaker 2: by telling us a little bit about what Better Housing
2:23
Speaker 2: Coalition does? Like who are you and what are you
2:25
Speaker 2: guys doing?
2:28
Speaker 3: Well, thank you for that question. Better Housing Coalition or BHC,
2:34
Speaker 3: is a thirty seven year old nonprofit organization that started
2:38
Speaker 3: out as an advocacy nonprofit by two really deeply rooted
2:48
Speaker 3: Richmonders who were so concerned about the quality housing choices
2:57
Speaker 3: that their neighbors had. And so Carter McDowell and Mary
3:03
Speaker 3: Tyler Cheek McClanahan came together with a simple idea to
3:08
Speaker 3: make sure that every Richmonder had good housing options. And
3:13
Speaker 3: from that small seed of an idea, we've evolved into
3:18
Speaker 3: a nearly half a billion dollar organization that has invested
3:24
Speaker 3: in our community. We develop and sell affordable and mixed
3:29
Speaker 3: income subdivisions, We build and manage and own affordable rental communities,
3:38
Speaker 3: and I think the thing that is a differentiator for
3:41
Speaker 3: us we offer an array of comprehensive services to the
3:45
Speaker 3: thousands of residents who honor us by living in our
3:48
Speaker 3: communities to really help them realize their fullest potential and
3:55
Speaker 3: can thrive. And a success metric for us is if
3:58
Speaker 3: people elevate their economic mobility pathway in such a manner
4:06
Speaker 3: that they don't need our affordable housing anymore and they
4:10
Speaker 3: can move up and out, and we see that as
4:12
Speaker 3: a great success. We have about eighty employees who reflect
4:21
Speaker 3: the communities that we serve. We have a dedicated, engaged
4:25
Speaker 3: board of directors. We have a separate board of directors
4:29
Speaker 3: for our property management company and separate board of directors
4:32
Speaker 3: for our holding company. And we have a very active,
4:36
Speaker 3: young professional board of young leaders who are supporting the
4:41
Speaker 3: mission and our organization. I love this place. I enjoy
4:46
Speaker 3: so much the challenges that we have on a daily basis,
4:50
Speaker 3: But we are trying to make a positive difference in
4:54
Speaker 3: a community that we love, to unleash the talents and
4:57
Speaker 3: gifts of every neighbor that lives here. You mentioned Richmonders.
5:03
Speaker 3: I think you. I didn't know.
5:05
Speaker 2: That's what your guys' names, how you called yourselves. What
5:09
Speaker 2: are some of the unique challenges of the people who
5:13
Speaker 2: live in Richmond, Like what have you seen happened to
5:16
Speaker 2: the housing market? What have you seen happened to the
5:18
Speaker 2: supply and how things are trending? What's going on in
5:23
Speaker 2: that in that realm.
5:25
Speaker 3: Well, there's a historical challenge and then there is the
5:30
Speaker 3: current market challenge. And so from a historical standpoint, you know,
5:36
Speaker 3: Richmond is sort of rooted in the beginnings of our
5:41
Speaker 3: country's democracy. Ten minutes from where I'm sitting right now,
5:45
Speaker 3: we could go to Saint John's Church where Patrick Henry
5:50
Speaker 3: gave the give me Liberty, Give me Death speech. Ten
5:53
Speaker 3: minutes from where I'm sitting, we could go down to
5:56
Speaker 3: the James River where the Hackel and Canal and Canals
5:59
Speaker 3: were designed by George Washington. And ten minutes from where
6:04
Speaker 3: I'm sitting, we could go to what is known as
6:07
Speaker 3: the Devil's half Acre, where almost a half a million
6:12
Speaker 3: enslaved Africans were sold into slavery. So we have a
6:16
Speaker 3: rich and complex history here in Richmond where not every
6:24
Speaker 3: individual was seen as being equal to someone else. And
6:35
Speaker 3: those even though we were founded, you know, on the
6:40
Speaker 3: principles of this country that are so wonderful and we're
6:45
Speaker 3: still aspiring to perfect, they didn't necessarily include you and me,
6:50
Speaker 3: Katie when they were initially created. And so that that
6:57
Speaker 3: historical challenge changes the psyche of a people sometimes, and
7:05
Speaker 3: we can look throughout history from those early days of
7:09
Speaker 3: the Revolution to the Civil War to gem Crow to
7:14
Speaker 3: even some of the challenges that are going on in
7:17
Speaker 3: our current political environment that do not create full opportunity
7:22
Speaker 3: access for certain individuals in certain communities. And the profile
7:28
Speaker 3: of those communities that haven't always had a level playing
7:31
Speaker 3: field include lower income communities and communities of color. So
7:37
Speaker 3: that's part of the historical challenge that spills over to
7:43
Speaker 3: conditions today around educational access, healthcare access, quality food access
7:51
Speaker 3: in those communities. The current market challenges are ones that
7:57
Speaker 3: are not unique to Richmond. Ever since COVID in I
8:03
Speaker 3: guess twenty twenty, we've seen the cost of everything go up,
8:08
Speaker 3: from land to building materials, labor costs, taxes, property insurance, etc.
8:17
Speaker 3: And we are still trying to stay true to our
8:21
Speaker 3: mission to serving modest income households, but the cost of
8:26
Speaker 3: delivering a quality product at an affordable price is becoming
8:31
Speaker 3: more and more challenging these days, and the margins that
8:35
Speaker 3: we used to enjoy prior to twenty twenty have gotten
8:39
Speaker 3: uncomfortably thin. And I think again it's not unique to
8:43
Speaker 3: Richmond or to the better Housing coalitions. We belong to
8:47
Speaker 3: several national organizations, so we talk with peer housing groups
8:53
Speaker 3: across the country, and I think everyone is struggling right
8:56
Speaker 3: now on how to do this work in a sustainable
9:01
Speaker 3: way for the corporation so that we can be around
9:05
Speaker 3: long term to be able to serve as many people
9:07
Speaker 3: as we can.
9:09
Speaker 2: So there may have been a time when Richmond was
9:13
Speaker 2: average affordable, and it sounds like expenses of costs and
9:17
Speaker 2: everything has been really going up, impacting not just you
9:20
Speaker 2: guys organizationally, but impacting who is trying to buy and
9:26
Speaker 2: who is trying to rent and how much And a
9:28
Speaker 2: lot of cities that typically haven't struggled with this, are
9:33
Speaker 2: currently struggling with this. You know, I've always said affordable
9:39
Speaker 2: housing is like economic it's good economic policy, like it's
9:44
Speaker 2: it is a subset of a larger conversation about economic policy,
9:49
Speaker 2: and that could translate into the individual's economic situation, and
9:54
Speaker 2: you know, the city, the state, and then you know,
9:57
Speaker 2: you can expand from there. You mentioned that you're seeing
10:02
Speaker 2: a lot more people who are experiencing some of.
10:06
Speaker 3: This economic volatility.
10:09
Speaker 2: One of the things I noticed that you guys do
10:11
Speaker 2: is workforce housing. So and really, you know, probably addressing
10:17
Speaker 2: a segment of people who may not have already been
10:21
Speaker 2: at the table prior to twenty twenty or you know,
10:24
Speaker 2: prior to these changed times. Right now, how is that
10:28
Speaker 2: rolling out? How does that look? You know, when it
10:32
Speaker 2: relates to workforce housing.
10:36
Speaker 3: So I think there are a couple of different dynamics
10:39
Speaker 3: that are going on with us. One, I think Richmond
10:44
Speaker 3: was the best kept secret for a long time, and
10:48
Speaker 3: now in the last decade or so, people are discovering
10:52
Speaker 3: what we've known for a long time, that Richmond is
10:55
Speaker 3: a great place to live, work, in play. And even
10:58
Speaker 3: before the pandemic, we started having migration from the West
11:02
Speaker 3: coast from the northeast coming into Richmond as just a
11:07
Speaker 3: cool place to live. The quality of life for most
11:12
Speaker 3: is really really high. We have lots of amenities here,
11:16
Speaker 3: and it was compared to say a DC or Philadelphia, Chicago,
11:23
Speaker 3: New York, definitely anywhere in California. We were a bargain
11:28
Speaker 3: economically for housing prices, and we also have a very
11:34
Speaker 3: diverse economic base with i think nine fortune five hundred
11:40
Speaker 3: company headquartered here. We are the state capitol, We're ninety
11:45
Speaker 3: miles away from the from Washington, d C. So we
11:49
Speaker 3: have a lot of economic diversity, and we have a
11:55
Speaker 3: growth happening in that area, like Coastar is really leaning
12:00
Speaker 3: in and having their corporate headquarters here and it's going
12:04
Speaker 3: to be ultimately hiring i think four thousand people to
12:07
Speaker 3: work there. So we have a lot of influx of
12:10
Speaker 3: people coming in and that begins to impact, you know,
12:17
Speaker 3: supplying demand because we were growing but not at a
12:21
Speaker 3: huge clip. But when we look regionally, Richmond's population is
12:27
Speaker 3: increasing at a nice clip these days, so that that
12:31
Speaker 3: puts pressure on the supply demand side. And then when
12:35
Speaker 3: you look up more globally, you know, since the Great Recession,
12:40
Speaker 3: you know, two thousand and eight nine ten, we lost
12:43
Speaker 3: a lot of building capacity as a country and we
12:46
Speaker 3: really haven't fully recovered, and so we are short in
12:52
Speaker 3: our region almost forty thousand units of affordable housing that
12:57
Speaker 3: would be workforce and deeply affordable houses to really meet
13:03
Speaker 3: the needs of the individuals who enhance the quality of
13:07
Speaker 3: life for our community. And I'll give you an example
13:13
Speaker 3: a few I guess it's been a year now. We
13:17
Speaker 3: ended up doing a tour with the CEO of al Trio,
13:20
Speaker 3: which is one of our biggest fortune five hundred companies
13:24
Speaker 3: headquartered here. And Altria has been really, really good to
13:32
Speaker 3: the middle class in our region. They are a good employer,
13:37
Speaker 3: they pay well. And the CEO asked me how many
13:43
Speaker 3: Altria employees do you think would qualify to live in
13:46
Speaker 3: your communities, And I said, probably none, because the company
13:52
Speaker 3: pays so well. Even their lowest paid employee would be
13:55
Speaker 3: over income for most of our communities. However, I said,
14:01
Speaker 3: each of your employees is impacted by the people who
14:05
Speaker 3: live with us. So the individuals who are taking care
14:09
Speaker 3: of your employees children at childcare, the individuals who are
14:14
Speaker 3: helping your employees take care of their aging parents, the
14:18
Speaker 3: individuals who are serving coffee, wonderful meals, local brews, and
14:26
Speaker 3: distilled spirits to your employees. They live in our community.
14:32
Speaker 3: The folks who are entertaining your employees on the weekends
14:36
Speaker 3: with live bands and other artistic endeavors, those other folks
14:42
Speaker 3: who live with us. And I think for every community,
14:48
Speaker 3: it's not an either or, And unfortunately that happens a
14:52
Speaker 3: lot with gentrification, that the very people who create the
14:55
Speaker 3: culture often get pushed out when a community becomes a
15:00
Speaker 3: hot real estate commodity. And so I think it's a
15:04
Speaker 3: policy decision that we need to make as a community
15:09
Speaker 3: that we want longtime residents as well as newcomers to
15:15
Speaker 3: be able to live in harmony with one another. That's
15:19
Speaker 3: sometimes easier said than done. But from the Better Housing
15:23
Speaker 3: Coalition perspective, we try to create mixed income communities. We
15:28
Speaker 3: have some developments that are one hundred percent off hordable,
15:33
Speaker 3: primarily using low income housing tax credits for financing. There
15:38
Speaker 3: are other developments that we've done that use a variety
15:42
Speaker 3: of financing tools where we can have mixed income communities
15:46
Speaker 3: both in the rental side as well as the home
15:49
Speaker 3: ownership side. And we honestly believe as a value that
15:57
Speaker 3: inclusivity is a good thing to shoot for. Not always
16:01
Speaker 3: easy to implement, but you know, whether it's racial inclusivity,
16:05
Speaker 3: whether it's socioeconomic inclusivity, that we do better living in
16:11
Speaker 3: harmony together and we learn from one another, and it
16:16
Speaker 3: lifts up our humanity that we have so much more
16:19
Speaker 3: in common than we do. A part on the current
16:23
Speaker 3: political environment sometimes thinks that we're miles apart, but we
16:27
Speaker 3: have found that we have a lot of commonality and
16:31
Speaker 3: we need to be in close proximity to one another
16:34
Speaker 3: in order to discover that.
16:36
Speaker 2: Sometimes, so if you're going to start building in a
16:40
Speaker 2: neighborhood and the community is not thrilled with the option
16:46
Speaker 2: of you potentially building there, and I'm throwing out a
16:49
Speaker 2: hypothetical here, but it's something that is a lot of
16:53
Speaker 2: communities continue to be confronted with, what's the process by
16:58
Speaker 2: which you go as another nonprofit developer and an existing
17:03
Speaker 2: local company in the ground right in the neighborhoods already, Like,
17:09
Speaker 2: how do you go about that process of showing why
17:15
Speaker 2: it's needed and making it a successful.
17:19
Speaker 3: New build in the community. Well, we should be having
17:24
Speaker 3: adult beverages while we're having this conversation it's we have
17:31
Speaker 3: probably had more failures than successes on that front. And
17:38
Speaker 3: what I will say is that in today's environment, the
17:43
Speaker 3: awarenesses that are all time high that we have a
17:46
Speaker 3: problem in this country and in our community that there
17:50
Speaker 3: isn't enough housing that's affordable across socio economic spectrums. And
17:57
Speaker 3: so most people, when you look at the various surveys
18:02
Speaker 3: that have been done, are for affordable housing as long
18:05
Speaker 3: as it's not in my neighborhood, which is the quintessential
18:09
Speaker 3: definition of nimby not in my backyard. And so when
18:13
Speaker 3: we have an opportunity, either we've been invited by someone.
18:17
Speaker 3: It could be a faith institution, or it could be
18:21
Speaker 3: a neighborhood group, or we just find out an opportunity
18:25
Speaker 3: in a particular neighborhood. We believe in community engagement and transparency,
18:33
Speaker 3: and we approach that engagement from a point of education,
18:38
Speaker 3: because in many cases, people don't know what we do,
18:44
Speaker 3: even though we've been here for almost four decades, and
18:48
Speaker 3: there are assumptions that what we produce is the thing
18:53
Speaker 3: that scares people, which is public housing. The excuses that
18:59
Speaker 3: we as to why individuals don't want us to invest
19:07
Speaker 3: in their community is that they don't want crime in
19:10
Speaker 3: their neighborhood, and I don't know of anyone that does.
19:14
Speaker 3: They fear that the property values will decline, and there
19:20
Speaker 3: have been so many academic studies that prove that a
19:24
Speaker 3: well designed, well constructed, well managed property only helps to
19:30
Speaker 3: appreciate values. And I think what is mostly driving the
19:39
Speaker 3: pushback is fear of change. And so when you're introducing
19:45
Speaker 3: the concept of someone that may be moving in that
19:49
Speaker 3: has a different life story, has a different lived experience,
19:55
Speaker 3: that makes people nervous. And as a human species, we
19:58
Speaker 3: don't like change. We don't embra of most people don't anyhow.
20:03
Speaker 3: And I think what we have shown because of our
20:06
Speaker 3: longevity in this region that the fears that people had
20:11
Speaker 3: at the beginning of a process really never unfold. And
20:16
Speaker 3: the selling point that we issue and we do tours,
20:20
Speaker 3: we take people around to show them our work, and
20:23
Speaker 3: some of the best comments are, this is not what
20:26
Speaker 3: I was expecting when they see beautifully landscaped properties and
20:31
Speaker 3: people that are happy there and engaged in social activities.
20:39
Speaker 3: Because we develop, we own, we manage long term, and
20:45
Speaker 3: we are a long term asset holder. We just don't
20:48
Speaker 3: build it and then flip it and sell it. We're
20:50
Speaker 3: there for the long haul if there is a problem,
20:53
Speaker 3: and sometimes, to be honestly honest, there are issues that
20:58
Speaker 3: pop up, but all we have to do is be
21:00
Speaker 3: made aware and then we take care of it because
21:03
Speaker 3: we're here, we aren't going anywhere, and this is our
21:06
Speaker 3: community too, so we want to be seen as an
21:11
Speaker 3: asset and sometimes taking liabilities in neighborhoods and turning them
21:17
Speaker 3: into something very positive that's beneficial not only for our
21:20
Speaker 3: residents but for the surrounding neighbors of our assets.
21:26
Speaker 2: One thing I read about you, and I'm going to
21:28
Speaker 2: quote it so I don't.
21:29
Speaker 3: Mess this up, but.
21:31
Speaker 2: The better housing coalitions of values say that we do
21:36
Speaker 2: what's right and not what's easy, and that really impressed
21:42
Speaker 2: me because there's so much life experience that we want
21:47
Speaker 2: to be cozy, we want to be comfortable, we want
21:49
Speaker 2: to be safe, and ultimately, at our human core, we
21:52
Speaker 2: do want to be safe. But you're in an environment
21:57
Speaker 2: where you clearly just talked about how different cult it
22:00
Speaker 2: is to not just you know, find a good neighborhood,
22:03
Speaker 2: build a good product, maintain it, but to integrate within
22:07
Speaker 2: that community as well. So give some examples of how
22:12
Speaker 2: that value is playing out with what you're doing on
22:17
Speaker 2: the day to day, whether it's a person's life or
22:20
Speaker 2: it's a specific project you're doing. Give us some examples
22:24
Speaker 2: of those values playing out.
22:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can tell you. One of our latest properties,
22:33
Speaker 3: Horner Run, is a partnership with the Chesterfield County Community
22:38
Speaker 3: Services Board, and we have a few of our apartments
22:45
Speaker 3: earmarked for individuals with disabilities so that they are integrated
22:52
Speaker 3: into a border societal setting. And we were leasing up
22:58
Speaker 3: and you know, the clock is ticking to meet investor
23:01
Speaker 3: returns on meeting those stabilization goals, and we had an
23:08
Speaker 3: individual who was so excited to move in. This would
23:12
Speaker 3: be the first time that he was able to live
23:15
Speaker 3: on his own with supports from his family and his
23:22
Speaker 3: and the Chesterfield Community Services Board. And when he moved in,
23:31
Speaker 3: he had some challenges and adjusting to being on his
23:34
Speaker 3: own and had some early incidents with his neighbors, and
23:43
Speaker 3: we had to intervene with the Community Services Board, his family,
23:48
Speaker 3: and our residence services coordinators to be able to one
23:53
Speaker 3: talk with his neighbors to help them better understand this
23:58
Speaker 3: individual's cap and to be able to ensure their safety
24:07
Speaker 3: as well in living in close proximity. But what we
24:12
Speaker 3: ended up doing is just creating a community table where
24:15
Speaker 3: everyone came together, including the individual who had some challenges,
24:20
Speaker 3: to be able to have a handshake and agreements on
24:24
Speaker 3: how we were going to be in community together. You know,
24:28
Speaker 3: the easiest thing to have done is to say that
24:31
Speaker 3: this individual shouldn't live in this community and to help
24:39
Speaker 3: him to exit. But I think there has been greater
24:43
Speaker 3: understanding for some of his neighbors on him and they've
24:47
Speaker 3: engage with him now, so that is working out really,
24:51
Speaker 3: really well. And sometimes we all have to take a
24:55
Speaker 3: little extra time to get to know individuals so that
24:59
Speaker 3: we can be supportive of one another in community. Another
25:05
Speaker 3: example would be where we are. We took a pretty
25:13
Speaker 3: terrible property. We've done this a few times, and it
25:17
Speaker 3: is stressing staff out and other people out of property
25:21
Speaker 3: that I would say is a liability in a neighborhood,
25:25
Speaker 3: and we're investing close to thirty million dollars into that
25:29
Speaker 3: property to take something that wasn't so good and make
25:32
Speaker 3: it much much better for the hundreds of residents that
25:35
Speaker 3: are there. And what we have found is that there
25:40
Speaker 3: were a handful of households that were causing fear and
25:48
Speaker 3: causing chaos for the entire community. And so we worked
25:53
Speaker 3: in partnership with the local police precinct and other residents
25:58
Speaker 3: who were fearful of of of these households, and the
26:03
Speaker 3: court systems, and it took four months, unfortunately because of
26:11
Speaker 3: the backlog and the court systems to remute remove a
26:15
Speaker 3: handful of people that were causing chaos in order to
26:20
Speaker 3: create harmony for the whole And in that process we
26:25
Speaker 3: ended up having to get security, pay for security on
26:31
Speaker 3: the site and all of that. And and this is
26:34
Speaker 3: not sharing, it's not showcasing BAH in the best light,
26:39
Speaker 3: but it's the reality of doing owning and managing lots
26:44
Speaker 3: of uh, you know, affordable housing. You sometimes have not
26:47
Speaker 3: good players that live there. And our goal is, you know,
26:51
Speaker 3: when we do resonance surveys, the number one answer that
26:56
Speaker 3: we get why do people want to live in our communities?
26:59
Speaker 3: It's safety was number one. Belonging is number two, Affordability
27:06
Speaker 3: is number three, and then amenities is number four. And
27:10
Speaker 3: so we take that seriously of creating a safe environment
27:14
Speaker 3: where kids can feel free to play, you know, outside
27:19
Speaker 3: and not be worried and that parents won't be worried
27:22
Speaker 3: about the well being of themselves or their kids. And
27:28
Speaker 3: I think part of this is, you know, in the
27:31
Speaker 3: current environment where we're waiting to see what the congressional
27:34
Speaker 3: budget may or may not look like, and the potential
27:42
Speaker 3: of America's social safety net on food supports, education support,
27:48
Speaker 3: childcare support, healthcare support, and maybe even rental assistance is
27:54
Speaker 3: in question. We've been doing a lot of scenario planning
27:59
Speaker 3: here and really building up our financial war chest, cutting
28:04
Speaker 3: all non essential spending and getting ready for what we
28:08
Speaker 3: think may be a really tough period as we go
28:12
Speaker 3: into twenty twenty six, so that we're as well prepared
28:16
Speaker 3: as we possibly can be for living that value of
28:21
Speaker 3: doing what's right and not what's easy. You know, we
28:25
Speaker 3: have almost a thousand extremely low income seniors whose average
28:31
Speaker 3: income is less than fourteen thousand dollars a year. And
28:36
Speaker 3: if rental assistance is cut, are we going to put
28:40
Speaker 3: eighty and ninety year olds out because you know, their
28:46
Speaker 3: subsidy didn't come through. So I think we're trying to
28:52
Speaker 3: live by that value in every way. And I love
28:54
Speaker 3: that the board listen, you know, uses the values as
28:58
Speaker 3: a beacon as we're making tough decisions around corporate sustainability.
29:05
Speaker 3: And honestly, I have a four page job description and
29:08
Speaker 3: I can put all of those things I'm supposed to
29:11
Speaker 3: be doing in two buckets, and the first and foremost
29:14
Speaker 3: is corporate sustainability for BHC, and then the second bucket
29:20
Speaker 3: is greatest impact possible. But as you well know, you
29:24
Speaker 3: can have the best mission in the world, and if
29:26
Speaker 3: you can't figure out how to keep your doors open,
29:30
Speaker 3: you can't fulfill that mission. And so it's going to
29:35
Speaker 3: be an interesting period right now that I think will
29:39
Speaker 3: be different for our industry on how we carry out
29:42
Speaker 3: the work. And I think we are beginning to explore
29:50
Speaker 3: not moving away from the mission in any shape or form,
29:54
Speaker 3: but reimagining how we might do this work differently as
29:59
Speaker 3: we move into the future, because the old model, because
30:04
Speaker 3: of the cost increases and trying to stay true to
30:08
Speaker 3: who we serve, is not working so well anymore. The
30:12
Speaker 3: gaps went from hundreds of thousands of dollars on a
30:16
Speaker 3: capital stack to millions of dollars from the capital stack,
30:20
Speaker 3: and it's getting more and more challenging just to get
30:22
Speaker 3: a project from ideation to fruition.
30:26
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, A couple of things. I got one the
30:32
Speaker 2: lease enforcement. I like to so to kind of defend
30:35
Speaker 2: your point as far as what it was a great example,
30:39
Speaker 2: but you said it may not put you guys in
30:41
Speaker 2: a great light.
30:42
Speaker 3: But I want to counter that with saying.
30:44
Speaker 2: Lease enforcement is lease enforcement regardless of whether it's affordable
30:48
Speaker 2: housing stock or commercial. You know. So you know, kudos
30:53
Speaker 2: to you though for paying attention to lease enforcement, because
30:58
Speaker 2: you can't address the larger community, the property improvements, how
31:02
Speaker 2: the property functions without doing exactly the framework that she's
31:06
Speaker 2: laid out, looking at the least having security, valuing the community.
31:12
Speaker 3: As a whole's safety.
31:14
Speaker 2: And so even though it was a rough example that
31:17
Speaker 2: you had to go through and try to address again,
31:21
Speaker 2: lease enforcement is lease enforcement regardless of what the portfolio is, right.
31:26
Speaker 3: It absolutely is, And there's a social contract when that
31:30
Speaker 3: lease is signed, we will create a safe, endurable place
31:35
Speaker 3: to call home and in exchange for that, you're going
31:39
Speaker 3: to live by the community rules and pay that rent.
31:43
Speaker 3: And when that social contract is broken, and I think
31:49
Speaker 3: that that falls into two categories. Sometimes life happens and
31:52
Speaker 3: we know that, and that's why we have our resonance
31:56
Speaker 3: services that work in partnership with our the folks who
32:01
Speaker 3: live in our community to help them navigate when those
32:05
Speaker 3: challenges do pop up, and we try to do creative
32:08
Speaker 3: problem solving in order to keep them safely housed in
32:15
Speaker 3: our communities. That's one scenario. There there are other places
32:20
Speaker 3: where people are are are not being a good steward
32:25
Speaker 3: of living in community and they don't follow the rules
32:29
Speaker 3: and and I think we have waiting lists on all
32:34
Speaker 3: of our properties. So if someone isn't willing to pay
32:38
Speaker 3: what they owe or they're not willing to follow the
32:43
Speaker 3: rules of community, then when they exit, there are many
32:49
Speaker 3: more people who just want the opportunity to find that safe,
32:53
Speaker 3: quality place home. So you know, I'm an architect by
32:59
Speaker 3: training and practice, and I used to think that architects
33:03
Speaker 3: were the indell center of the universe. And then I
33:06
Speaker 3: realized whoever controls the money has a lot more power
33:11
Speaker 3: and control. But I loved doing real estate development. It
33:17
Speaker 3: wasn't until I got to a better housing coalition that
33:23
Speaker 3: I learned about property management. As I would do developments
33:27
Speaker 3: and move on to the next one. It's a horse
33:30
Speaker 3: of a whole different color when it has the decisions
33:33
Speaker 3: that you make from design, from construction materials, selection, residents,
33:40
Speaker 3: selection criteria, all of that, those early decisions make a
33:45
Speaker 3: world of difference in the success or not on the
33:49
Speaker 3: long term operations of those properties. And property management is
33:54
Speaker 3: not for the weak of heart. But and really my
33:58
Speaker 3: team doesn't let me get in but so much because
34:01
Speaker 3: I'm too much of a softy. When residents do get
34:05
Speaker 3: my phone number and call me, I muck things up sometimes.
34:09
Speaker 3: But I think we have a good balance between being
34:14
Speaker 3: empathetic and supportive of our residents but also know that
34:19
Speaker 3: we are running a business that happens to have a heart,
34:24
Speaker 3: and we want to be here for the long haul
34:27
Speaker 3: and serve as many people as we can.
34:31
Speaker 2: Well, property management it's very difficult because you're dealing with people,
34:35
Speaker 2: you're dealing with properties, you're dealing with the process, and
34:38
Speaker 2: you're dealing with systems, and all of that just kind
34:43
Speaker 2: of can pop up and down at any moments. You know,
34:46
Speaker 2: I feel like property managers they show up for what
34:48
Speaker 2: they think is a great day, and you know, one
34:53
Speaker 2: literal dumpster fire.
34:56
Speaker 3: Can change the rules. It certainly can. And there are
35:01
Speaker 3: really the unsung heroes in our organization because they are
35:07
Speaker 3: on the frontline of dealing with the good, the bad,
35:12
Speaker 3: the ugly of what people are dealing with and I
35:17
Speaker 3: have the utmost respect for them. And you know, there
35:21
Speaker 3: is a trend that's happening in our affordable housing industry
35:26
Speaker 3: where some of our colleagues are sort of throwing up
35:31
Speaker 3: their hands and doing third party property management, and that
35:37
Speaker 3: has crossed our minds from time to time too. But ultimately,
35:43
Speaker 3: we believe that we can support our residents that are
35:47
Speaker 3: by maintaining our own property operations integrated with our residence
35:53
Speaker 3: services so that they have a better expence in our communities.
36:02
Speaker 3: And but it is, it is not easy, but but
36:06
Speaker 3: I think we believe that everyone benefits from us. Having
36:11
Speaker 3: all of those capacities in.
36:13
Speaker 2: House and those wrapper around services make the difference because
36:18
Speaker 2: you're able to leverage and preserve not just the asset,
36:22
Speaker 2: but you're able to say, Okay, you know what's going
36:24
Speaker 2: on here in the unit, in the life, with the employment, healthcare,
36:28
Speaker 2: whatever those are, is whatever is happening, because you want
36:31
Speaker 2: to stabilize more than just the asset, right, you want
36:35
Speaker 2: people to do better with this gift of affordable housing,
36:40
Speaker 2: if you will. I mean, this is a chance for
36:42
Speaker 2: them to re you know, reframe what they're doing and
36:45
Speaker 2: where they're going, where they're living. So other wrapp around
36:49
Speaker 2: services are definitely key in that and that continuum. I
36:55
Speaker 2: one thing you were mentioning and we were talking about
36:59
Speaker 2: the congresstional budgets and impact to rent subsidies, and you know,
37:04
Speaker 2: the good news and the bad news is the good
37:06
Speaker 2: news is affordable housing is on everybody's since right now.
37:11
Speaker 2: This is there is true bipartisan support. And you know,
37:16
Speaker 2: we're not a political platform here, we're housers. And so
37:20
Speaker 2: you know, many of us who have been here for
37:22
Speaker 2: decades kind of know how to maneuver with any congressional
37:27
Speaker 2: budget because there's just always an education process, there's always
37:32
Speaker 2: an advocacy process, there's always a you know, best case scenario,
37:37
Speaker 2: worst case scenario.
37:38
Speaker 3: Where do we where are we going to realistically hit?
37:42
Speaker 2: And so you know, this is just another one of
37:45
Speaker 2: those times. But what you're doing as an organization, as
37:50
Speaker 2: a nonprofit developer really does rely on a lot of
37:54
Speaker 2: these low income housing tax credits and what's happening in
37:58
Speaker 2: that space, and it's gone through some changes recently.
38:04
Speaker 3: So tell us.
38:05
Speaker 2: How what you're watching, what you're predicting for the tax
38:10
Speaker 2: credits space, and how that may be playing out for you.
38:13
Speaker 3: Guys mm hm. So with the Big Beautiful Bill, there
38:22
Speaker 3: were a few things that were positive with the expansion
38:28
Speaker 3: of the Low income Housing tax credits, the permanency of
38:33
Speaker 3: new markets tax credits, UH, some procedural changes in the
38:39
Speaker 3: lie tech program as well that were beneficial. I think
38:45
Speaker 3: that coupled with some other challenging aspects of that bill,
38:51
Speaker 3: including looking at the corporate tax rate, and that that
38:59
Speaker 3: made diminute demand for tax credits. And when that happens,
39:09
Speaker 3: we're hearing that there may be a decrease in pricing
39:13
Speaker 3: for the tax credits, even though there may be more
39:16
Speaker 3: to be allocated. But if the pricing comes down, we're
39:20
Speaker 3: left with the same challenge of having these gaping gaps
39:25
Speaker 3: in the capital stack for new development. Since twenty twenty,
39:32
Speaker 3: we've seen the cost of a typical unit of housing
39:36
Speaker 3: go up almost sixty five percent, and it the amount
39:43
Speaker 3: of subsidy that we're raising philanthropically is just incredible. We
39:52
Speaker 3: just closed on and started construction on a sixty million
39:56
Speaker 3: dollar development in Chester cool project on the side of
40:01
Speaker 3: an old Green Book motel. It's going to be fantastic
40:05
Speaker 3: when it's done because of the legacy of that history.
40:10
Speaker 3: Was just incredible, and I think we had six million
40:13
Speaker 3: dollars of philanthropy. That's not including local, state, and federal
40:20
Speaker 3: dollars that we had in it, but just philanthropic dollars.
40:24
Speaker 3: Richmond is a very generous community and they've been really
40:29
Speaker 3: good to better Housing coalition over the years. But it
40:33
Speaker 3: is getting harder and harder to fill multimillion dollar gaps,
40:38
Speaker 3: you know, whether public or philanthropic sources. So right now
40:44
Speaker 3: as the the environment in which affordable housing is done,
40:51
Speaker 3: especially with the change in administration, we are spending this
40:56
Speaker 3: year reimagining how we fulfill our mission at the board
41:03
Speaker 3: level and at the staff level, and so kicking off
41:08
Speaker 3: this week, we are restructuring our portfolio operations to bring
41:13
Speaker 3: more efficiency and greater accountability to both our residence services
41:19
Speaker 3: and property management and maintenance teams so that we can
41:26
Speaker 3: reduce expenses and enhance our economic returns from the portfolio,
41:34
Speaker 3: which represents about sixty five percent of our overall corporate
41:39
Speaker 3: revenue streams coming in. We have are working with a
41:43
Speaker 3: couple of national mortgage brokers for commercial development, Barcadia and
41:50
Speaker 3: JLL to help us remodel how we finance future projects
41:59
Speaker 3: beyond tax credits. Because there's still over subscribed here in
42:04
Speaker 3: Virginia usually four to one of applications to credits to
42:09
Speaker 3: be allowed, and we're spending I don't know, two hundred
42:14
Speaker 3: and fifty to three hundred thousand dollars per application to
42:17
Speaker 3: be competitive in that process. So we're looking at alternative financing.
42:23
Speaker 3: We just got rated a by S and P Global
42:27
Speaker 3: as Amy, which I'm super duper excited about that in
42:33
Speaker 3: hopes that we might be able to leverage donors who
42:37
Speaker 3: have been with us for thirty thirty five years and
42:40
Speaker 3: offer them another opportunity to support our mission, but not
42:45
Speaker 3: just philanthroically, but through an investment vehicle. So we have
42:51
Speaker 3: a subset of our board that's helping us to look
42:53
Speaker 3: at that structure for early twenty twenty six with potentially
42:58
Speaker 3: issuing our own five oh ones three bond financing. Okay,
43:02
Speaker 3: And this month we launched a very aggressive capital campaign
43:09
Speaker 3: which I'm almost embarrassed to say it out loud, but
43:12
Speaker 3: we're going to be trying to raise one hundred million
43:14
Speaker 3: dollars of which we'll act as BHC equity because that
43:21
Speaker 3: is our weakest link in trying to facilitate faster, cheaper
43:29
Speaker 3: future developments and what I'll give an example. We finished
43:35
Speaker 3: up a project a couple of years ago in the
43:38
Speaker 3: Jackson Ward Historic neighborhood here in the city of Richmond,
43:43
Speaker 3: and we, you know, the reason that we can offer
43:47
Speaker 3: below market rents is because we keep our long term
43:51
Speaker 3: debt down to about twenty five or thirty percent of
43:54
Speaker 3: the capital stack, and then we have lie tech, whether
43:59
Speaker 3: it's nine percent or nine to four combo equity coming
44:04
Speaker 3: in that doesn't have to be repaid, that usually is
44:09
Speaker 3: hovering maybe around fifty or fifty five percent of the
44:14
Speaker 3: overall capital stack. And then the balance is subsidy that
44:19
Speaker 3: we get from the state, local government, sometimes the federal government.
44:24
Speaker 3: And we still usually have a gap. So on this
44:27
Speaker 3: particular development, we had a four and a half million
44:30
Speaker 3: dollar gap. It didn't start off that big, it was
44:33
Speaker 3: much smaller. This was still in the tail end of
44:36
Speaker 3: COVID when it was under construction, and let's say we
44:39
Speaker 3: had an eight hundred thousand dollars gap, and it took
44:42
Speaker 3: us six months to go out and raise the money.
44:45
Speaker 3: And then when we came back, the contractor said I
44:47
Speaker 3: couldn't hold the prices. And now it's gone up another
44:50
Speaker 3: seven ndred and fifty. It went on for two and
44:53
Speaker 3: a half years to raise that money, so that was
44:57
Speaker 3: two and a half years of delayed service to residents.
45:02
Speaker 3: Every source of money had some strings attached to it,
45:06
Speaker 3: which added to the overall cost of the development. If
45:11
Speaker 3: we have success, so let me dis claim it. When
45:15
Speaker 3: we have success in raising this one hundred million dollar pool,
45:21
Speaker 3: we will be able to just write our own check
45:24
Speaker 3: and close the gap and get it done faster and
45:29
Speaker 3: cheaper and just fulfill our mission in a much more
45:33
Speaker 3: efficient way. We have a steering committee that we've assembled.
45:40
Speaker 3: We have a growing list of high net worth and
45:43
Speaker 3: ultra high net worth individuals that and that's where we're
45:47
Speaker 3: looking to raise the money, not so much from corporations
45:51
Speaker 3: or foundations, and really we're pitching people's love of this
45:58
Speaker 3: community and wanting to make sure that all of our
46:01
Speaker 3: neighbors have the opportunity to reach their fullest potential and
46:06
Speaker 3: contribute to making our community even better. So I'm excited
46:10
Speaker 3: to try. All anyone can say is no, but we
46:16
Speaker 3: are fortunate as a community, and I think this is
46:19
Speaker 3: a replicatable idea. It's a different way of raising money
46:23
Speaker 3: with individuals where there's a lot of cultivation and stewardship.
46:28
Speaker 3: But I think the timing is right about the awareness
46:32
Speaker 3: of the need for more well not just affordable housing,
46:37
Speaker 3: but housing options, and that we're in a crisis stage
46:42
Speaker 3: and we want all of our neighbors to be able
46:46
Speaker 3: to be the best version of themselves. So those are
46:50
Speaker 3: some of the things that we're trying to do to
46:53
Speaker 3: stay true to mission, but do it in some new ways.
46:58
Speaker 2: As we go forward and not be so subject to
47:02
Speaker 2: the whims of congressional budgets too. So you are creating
47:08
Speaker 2: a sustainable path by which you can keep going mission
47:12
Speaker 2: forward regardless of what's happening in the holes.
47:15
Speaker 3: Right, And I like how.
47:17
Speaker 2: You you explained the gaps in subsidy and the challenges
47:23
Speaker 2: to building. You explain those so well because many so
47:28
Speaker 2: often people are like, we do want to build our
47:31
Speaker 2: way out of this, because there's been such a historical
47:33
Speaker 2: gap on what has not been built. We haven't kept
47:36
Speaker 2: that pace up as a nation. But you explain it
47:39
Speaker 2: in such a way that says, even if we try
47:41
Speaker 2: to build our way out of this, look at what's
47:44
Speaker 2: happening to put the deal together, and the longer it goes,
47:48
Speaker 2: the more expensive it is, and the conditions and how
47:54
Speaker 2: that sub how that gap, that subsidy, that financing gap
47:59
Speaker 2: starts to keep happening, and why some people do push
48:02
Speaker 2: away from the table quite frankly, and they walk away
48:06
Speaker 2: from it. So you guys are staying in the mix here,
48:10
Speaker 2: we're staying in the fight.
48:12
Speaker 3: And I will say that our strategy is threefold on
48:16
Speaker 3: the money. One is to do more shopping for properties,
48:22
Speaker 3: and really our target is Class B properties in high
48:26
Speaker 3: opportunity communities, and to reverse engineering engineer the affordability, so
48:35
Speaker 3: the properties may not be affordable, but it's a preservation strategy,
48:39
Speaker 3: and in communities that it would be very difficult for
48:43
Speaker 3: us to go in and build new because of nimby
48:46
Speaker 3: and because of cost, but to buy existing properties which
48:50
Speaker 3: is cheaper than new construction on a per unit basis
48:53
Speaker 3: these days. And then over time, even though it is
49:00
Speaker 3: illegal to discriminate for a source of income, people do
49:05
Speaker 3: it every day. But we have always accepted voucher holders.
49:09
Speaker 3: Assuming that that program is still going to be round around,
49:13
Speaker 3: we initially would start accepting voucher holders, and then for
49:18
Speaker 3: a larger property, let's say one that's three hundred units,
49:21
Speaker 3: we would maybe subdivided and take one hundred units through
49:25
Speaker 3: the tax credit program to bring deeper affordability in high
49:29
Speaker 3: opportunity areas. That's one strategy too, because we've been around
49:34
Speaker 3: for such a long time, we had deep, deep relationships
49:40
Speaker 3: with our local administrators and elected officials, and so we're
49:44
Speaker 3: in conversations right now with a locality about a fifty
49:49
Speaker 3: acre parcel of land in a great location that we
49:54
Speaker 3: would they're going to deem a surplus and that we
49:57
Speaker 3: might be able to get for either a significan currently
50:00
Speaker 3: discounted price or for free to be able to do
50:04
Speaker 3: larger scale, mixed income, mixed use developments in that community.
50:11
Speaker 3: And we're having conversations with multiple localities right now trying
50:16
Speaker 3: to secure either declining assets like shopping centers that aren't
50:22
Speaker 3: doing really well or surplus land in order to impact
50:29
Speaker 3: the overall development costs because our land acquisition is cheaper.
50:34
Speaker 3: And then the third strategy is really trying to land
50:38
Speaker 3: bank a little bit along strategic, educational, recreational, and transportation quarters.
50:48
Speaker 3: With the current administration, I'm not anticipating huge infusions of
50:53
Speaker 3: like transportation dollars coming to different parts of the country,
50:59
Speaker 3: but even ventually that will happen again. And in Richmond,
51:03
Speaker 3: we have a bus rapid transit line that goes east west.
51:07
Speaker 3: We've just finalized the location of the North South line
51:13
Speaker 3: and we would like to buy parcels along that line,
51:16
Speaker 3: even though it may be several years before that gets implemented,
51:20
Speaker 3: but we would have TOD or transit oriented development opportunities
51:25
Speaker 3: along that line. We have a fall trail line that
51:28
Speaker 3: is forty three miles of recreation that will connect from
51:33
Speaker 3: Ashland down to Wig to Petersburg and so similar to
51:41
Speaker 3: the green Belt in Atlanta, that's what the hope is.
51:44
Speaker 3: I may not be alive to see it, but we
51:46
Speaker 3: want to have strategic parcels along those corridors as well.
51:51
Speaker 3: And wherever suburban new construction schools are going up, we'd
51:56
Speaker 3: like to buy in close proximity to that for our
51:59
Speaker 3: homeowners subdivisions that we like to do. So we have
52:04
Speaker 3: a strategy. All we need is money and and so
52:08
Speaker 3: we're going to go out and try, and like my
52:12
Speaker 3: grandmother used to sit in nothing beats of failure, but
52:15
Speaker 3: to try, and that's what we're going to do, and
52:17
Speaker 3: trying to raise in capital and really scale up our
52:21
Speaker 3: impact to be able to serve more people. Well, we
52:27
Speaker 3: wish you well on that one hundred million.
52:29
Speaker 2: It seems like you need to have one of those
52:31
Speaker 2: barometers in your office that just kind of hurt.
52:34
Speaker 3: It so you can just kind of keep speaking at.
52:37
Speaker 2: It and moving that through. So well.
52:42
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Greta.
52:45
Speaker 2: I appreciate what you are bringing to the table here
52:47
Speaker 2: and what you're doing in Richmond. And as we close out,
52:53
Speaker 2: any last words or projects that you want to highlight
52:57
Speaker 2: here as we close out.
52:59
Speaker 3: Well, well, Katie, I just want to thank you for
53:02
Speaker 3: the opportunity to share and to learn from you as well.
53:07
Speaker 3: I think we're at a crossroads as a country and
53:10
Speaker 3: as a society around how we are going to be
53:17
Speaker 3: judged for how we take care of the least of us.
53:21
Speaker 3: And I am hopeful I've lived long enough and travel
53:27
Speaker 3: enough around the world that there's way more good than
53:31
Speaker 3: not so good in this world. And I think there's
53:35
Speaker 3: a role for each and every one of us to
53:38
Speaker 3: do to put some light and joy and a helping
53:42
Speaker 3: hand out into the marketplace. It doesn't have to be
53:45
Speaker 3: helping thousands of people, but if we each take responsibility
53:49
Speaker 3: for trying to use our god giving talents and gifts
53:54
Speaker 3: to help someone. If we all did that, we would
53:57
Speaker 3: lift up our communities and our our neighbors in a
54:01
Speaker 3: very powerful way. And I think the future looks a
54:05
Speaker 3: little daunting right now, but if we just pull from
54:10
Speaker 3: the inner strength and light that we all have, I
54:14
Speaker 3: think will be okay. And I'm you know, as a
54:17
Speaker 3: nonprofit leader, I'm always seeing the glass half full and
54:21
Speaker 3: I believe there will be light and joy in the future,
54:26
Speaker 3: even though it may be a little bumpy pathway to
54:28
Speaker 3: get there. M h.
54:30
Speaker 2: Well, we are rooty for you guys and what you're
54:34
Speaker 2: doing at the Better Housing Coalition because you know anything,
54:38
Speaker 2: from the impact of the seniors that you were mentioning
54:42
Speaker 2: who are on the extremely low clear up to you know,
54:45
Speaker 2: preserving units clear up to building new I mean, you
54:48
Speaker 2: guys have a continuum to be able to impact more
54:53
Speaker 2: than just development goals, but you have the ability to
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Speaker 2: impact a person on an end of visual level by
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Speaker 2: which they can then turn around and do the same
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Speaker 2: for somebody else.
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Speaker 3: Absolutely, absolutely just pass it on.
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Speaker 2: Yes, thank you, Greta and God speak to you and
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Speaker 2: the team at Betterhousing Coalition right, thanks so much.
55:16
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to change makers with Katie Gore. To
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Speaker 1: find out more about Katie, go to quadel dot com.
55:22
Speaker 1: That's qu A D e l dot com. This has
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Speaker 1: been a production of Forbes Books Radio