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Navigating the Storm of Child Health and Parenting Wisdom with Dr. Free Hess · In Moderation

• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Welcome to In Moderation, the show where we give you a moderate dose of info sarcasm, and we already know we're not approved.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to this week's episode of In Moderation.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: We are on all the way up to number 14 now.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: I was thinking 13.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: I was just while you were talking.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: I was like I think it's 13.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: I feel like I know this one.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: How did you forget Dr Terry?
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Well, no, I don't remember.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: Numbers is the problem.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: I'm good with faces.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: Well, that's okay.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: So now we're on 14, just so Liam's caught up with the rest of us, and this week we happen to have Dr Free Hess.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we need.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: Rob, can you in post put in a bunch of claps and maybe some fireworks?
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: There we go, I'll have the fireworks going off and we can just give a big side break.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: We've got to have some Santa's sleigh bells in there, because you know this can be released just after Christmas.
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: It's the time I'm excited to be here.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: So tell us about your specialties.
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: So I am a board certified pediatrician that's been working in pediatric emergency medicine for way too long 15 years, feeling pretty crispy, pretty burnt, pretty crispy.
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: I specifically concentrate on child safety with my education on social media, and so that's kind of where I lay.
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: I just started a consulting business child safety consulting business where I'm working with parents and families and companies regarding child safety products and just educational stuff, depending on what the family needs.
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: But I'm kind of giving myself a little bit more passion into what I'm doing because I was so crispy.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: So that's me in a nutshell, and I'm a mom.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: I feel like we're going to have to do another episode in another 15 years, because what comes after crispy?
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: You're going to be long past crispy.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: It's going to be burnt, it's going to be incinerated.
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: No, no, no See, that's just it, and there's, interestingly, conversations about this in the medical field.
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: I'm sure probably other fields too.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Oh, is it?
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: Once you reach a certain point, it just stops.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: It just stops getting crispier.
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, so and specialties are different with respect to timing of that happens.
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: But then people kind of argue which is worse, burnt or crispy?
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: Are you like dead inside once you reach burnt, where there's just no emotions and you just kind of like automotons just go through your daily life?
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, slowly dwindle into dust, yeah, and then little bits, piece of little bits fall off on a daily basis and like so, your, your, your whole self becomes smaller and smaller and smaller.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: I would go like the Voldemort way, probably the Horcruxes, and just put different parts of me in different areas and that way you can kind of just can subsist on I don't know.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Liam's goatee is now a Horcrux or whatever.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: Sorry, soul patch, soul patch.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: I don't understand my bare hair wrong.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: Listen, any emergency medicine I would not be able to like.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: I work in the medical field.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: I started like in nursing school and then I went into like kind of sleep medicine.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Now I'm in like nutrition, I've circle.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: I would never make my way down to emergency medicine.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: It would never happen.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: That's just like too crazy, too hectic.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: And while I am crazy in person, I do not like crazy around me.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: That bothers me.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: That is just too much.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying Well, I mean, you are the crazy.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: If there's other crazy around you, you can't be the crazy opposites attract, is what I'm saying.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: You can't have crazy in crazy.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: You need calm, cool, collected in crazy.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: Oh, I don't know if that's necessarily true.
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: If you hang out in the ER and have some conversations with ER staff, it's, it's or or.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: Did they become crazy?
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: Did they start off com cool collected, they went into emergency medicine.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: Become crazier Did they go in crazy?
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know, maybe a little bit of both.
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: But, there's definitely.
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: It's a very unique place to humor with respect to what you're willing and can tolerate.
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: And again, I don't know if it's because that's how we all started to begin with, but that's how it is there.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: I think if most people sat around and heard our conversations, they'd be wildly surprised.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: Maybe in the closet crazy, and it takes the.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: It takes the ER for them to come out of the closet there.
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, sometimes, because there's a lot of you know, sometimes humor is the only thing that can get you through and I think our humor might not be everybody's kind of humor.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: Again, even for me it's like not in.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Like the emergency medicine.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: You have to make jokes like in.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: Like if you work in the hospital, that is the way you get through because of the stuff you deal with, you just need it.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: And if outside, looking in, you hear it, you're like wow, that's, those people don't care at all.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: And it's like no, we're just survived, like we're just trying to continue on with our day and we need this in order to get there and the pizza and donuts that the doctors or whatever bring us.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: You're trying to rationalize all the stuff that you're seeing and having to deal with into some sort of form that you can actually deal with yourself.
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: I think at the end of the episode we'll have to like ask you like, what's the craziest things you've seen in the ER and how can we avoid those?
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: Or something like that.
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: We, I mean that's partly what I do on social media.
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: I try to, like.
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: You know, the vast majority of the stuff that I talk about is realistic stuff that I've seen.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: I mean, obviously there's some of the really random crazy stuff that when I post I get a ton of like, oh, that would never happen.
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: That's like a one in a gazillion chance, and you know so I get pushed back about that.
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: But it's a realistic thing that I saw.
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: So yeah, there are some pretty interesting wild things that, like you'd be like how the hell could that have even possibly happened?
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: And sometimes those become conversations in the ER too.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: Well, I think, because of people's attention spans are really short, most people probably have stopped listening to this podcast already.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: I think we should probably write off the back, give people some like useful advice, you know, like if they're new parents or something like that.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: So let's say, okay, hypothetically speaking, there was, let's say, a father right Hypothetically, and he had a daughter.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: And let's say hypothetically he needed to go.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: Let's call him GM.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: Let's call it's, yeah, something crazy that no one would ever even closely name their child, that and let's say, hypothetically, that father didn't do like any research into having a child before they had a child and is just kind of winging it.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what?
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: And this hypothetical situation that has never happened or ever will happen, would you advise, would you give to that hypothetical person who hypothetically has no idea what they're doing?
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: Hypothetically, I would tell that hypothetical person and their hypothetical child that first and foremost make sure that when they have questions they are asking the correct people and listening to the correct people.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: Correct hypothetical people Correct hypothetical people.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: These aren't real people.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: Come on.
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: I think that, honestly, has thrown such a huge wrench into parenting, especially with social media, because people just listen to random others all over social media and they get wrong advice but don't understand it's wrong and intuitively sometimes it makes sense and so they go with it and when in fact they actually might be making things worse rather than better.
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: So I think they need to learn how to weed out the nonsense and really trust who they should be asking.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: It's really sad when you see in the news that some child died because these parents really wanted to listen to this holistic person that has no medical degree, nothing at all that told them hey yeah, instead of getting some antibiotics, just take some cinnamon.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: I'm wondering how much, because in our space a lot of it comes down to distrust of government, distrust of CDC, distrust of FDA, distrust of all any governing body.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: Basically, Do you think that plays a little bit in the child's safety as well?
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: 100%, 100%.
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: People will trust anybody other than people like me who are very specifically evidence-based.
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: Like I get called a sheep, a shill, I'm a grifter, even though I'll put out a vaccine video and oh, how much money are you making?
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: I don't even actually vaccinate in the pediatric yard.
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: We just don't do it, except for tetanus if they get a cut, a dirty wound.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: But I don't get that.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: What about rabies?
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: Do you get rabies?
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: No, actually rabies.
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: We do do quite a bit so rabies and tetanus, but that's literally it with respect to vaccines.
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: But they'll claim that I'm making all this money when one it's verifiable you can look it up online but they don't care that the physicians who have gone to the dark side and they're unfortunately a handful that are making millions of dollars, and here I am just trying to pay off my med school bills still.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: It's either Johnson, or Johnson is paying you One of the two.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: I don't know which one it is, but one of them.
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: I mean, I've gotten it.
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: What's the word?
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: Why is it not coming to me?
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: People are claiming that I'm being paid by Big Pharma, and then it gets even more so because people are like, oh big crib, because I advocate for safe sleep, oh crib, companies must be paying you.
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: I'm like what the hell does that mean?
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: No, crib companies.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: That's hilarious.
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: And if I'm advocating for a crib and the company happens to pay me, I sure as hell would take it because it's a safe sleep space, but you know what I'm saying.
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: So it goes on and on.
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: Or formula, because obviously breastfeeding is great but formula is fine too.
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: But I must be being paid by the formula companies, and especially if I'm against homemade formula, which I very much am, and there's tons of that on social media.
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: Tiktok right now TikTok is insane with the crazy things that they're willing to give newborns.
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: And when I try to say, look, if there's a reason why they can't breastfeed, please don't make homemade formula, get formula that's regulated, then I'm obviously being paid by the company.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: Right and yeah.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: I want to say for everybody that's listening if you don't know, in the US you can look up.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: I think it's opendoctorscom, yeah, and you can literally look up how much any given doctor is being paid by any given company.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: I believe I have zero on there, zero.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and a lot of the times these are like the anti-vaxxer doctors, the supplement sales doctors, all these people.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: They are the ones making millions and you can literally go look it up.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but they're fighting the system.
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'll be honest, there was so.
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: For example, I also educate a lot about child safety on social media and, interestingly, there was a pharmaceutical company who was a great company in trying to listen to their employees, and their employees had formed this mental health group for people who had had family members specifically children, but other family members as well who have died by suicide, and they had approached the pharmaceutical company and said, hey, is there something that you can help us with?
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: Make this a little bit better, Get some education in here for these people.
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: They actually asked me to talk to them about sex distortion of children and online safety for children and all of that stuff, and it's really.
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: I did not end up doing it for various reasons, but I actually hesitated because I'm like, even though this isn't for a medication or for a vaccine, it may show up on there and that's going to give them, that's going to give the public something.
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: And I shouldn't have to think that way because it wasn't, even with respect to medications and all of that.
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: But I did.
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: It gave me pause because I was like it's going to end up going up on the website.
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: People are going to be like see, you got paid by a pharmaceutical company when it was really just to educate their employees about mental health and online and child safety and all that stuff.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, at this point anything connected to a pharmaceutical company is just evil in itself.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: But I need to go back real quick to this homemade formula thing.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: Man, there's words in my mind that don't belong together, like banana and laffy taffy or pre-used condoms, Like those things just shouldn't be in the same sentence.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: And a homemade formula Banana should not be in any sentence period.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Banana alone is great.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: You don't flavor it in things.
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: They were moving past this.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: We don't have time for another hour to go over this.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: But homemade formula Like.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: I've listened to other podcasts that talk about the history of medicine and stuff like that.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: If you've never checked out Sawbones, shameless Pug to them as well, they're awesome.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: But they talk about how, like back in the day, when we didn't have actual formula, people were like all right, we're going to make do with what we have.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: And it's just so crazy now that so much later when we figured it out, people were like no, no, no, no, no, no.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: The people back in the day that were desperate in trying anything they can, those are the people we need to listen to.
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: Do we need to just throw together concoctions and hopefully, it works out.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: Let's see.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: I well this.
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: That's sort of crazy to me.
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: It's totally crazy and, as a matter of fact, there are actually people up on TikTok specifically that have dug up their old recipes from the physicians way back, way, way back when and they're recommending this to other people.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: They're like this is what our great great grandmother gave when they couldn't breastfeed, and we're all fine.
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: This is natural.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: This is how we do it the one that had, the one that had berry, berry.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: Is that the?
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: one we're talking about Right, or the one that we're like.
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: People were at the time where people were having seven and eight kids, hoping that they could end up having one or two that would live to be an adult.
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: You know, like it's just, it's mind blowing that people are willing to do that and they're doing it all over.
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: And then, of course, there's the people who are advocating for raw milk for infants, for goats, milk for infants, all of which is just so, so dangerous.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: It's just.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: One of the biggest problems with appeal to tradition is that you don't hear from the people who died.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: What is it Like?
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: Is it?
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: What was it Eye of Newt?
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: You know Frog's Breath?
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: Like what the hell is it in a big cauldron that they stir and chant?
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: It's like it's literally like water and sugar, and sometimes maple syrup, chrysleric syrup, like random things.
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you can't have.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Cane chur.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: Oh, that sucks Processed.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: You need to give your baby real maple syrup.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: Please don't do this, by the way, but that's the funniest thing.
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: The funniest part is the people who are posting this stuff right Like they're posting the old school one, the old school recipe, and then they're sitting here with all the stuff on the counter that they bought at the store, right Like gosh, it's just, it's such a.
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: It's just, it's a mess, and I see I see a little like sugar is terrible for you.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: Don't give it to your babies and stuff.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: I'm like what the heck do you think?
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: Is it breast milk?
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: It's so hard.
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: I just can't.
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: It's crazy, but it's.
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: It's honestly like and there's a term that and I think a lot of people don't like it, but I say it all the time is that there are a lot of people that have ego that only ignorance can afford them Like it's.
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: It's just they have this, this ego about how they're talking and the recommendations that they're giving and that they think they're right and they know they're right and they have this one secret that everybody else is wrong about.
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: But they know the right way and nobody who actually is educated in that field would ever do that, minus the few grifters, because there's a reason why they're doing it.
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: But the general person, if you're educated in that, then you would never do that.
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: So you know it's.
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: Education is such an amazing thing because the more educated you become in a specific topic and a specific area, the more you realize what you don't know and the more terrified you are to talk about things that are not within your scope.
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: That's why I have a huge distrust for people who are willing to speak out of their scope of practice or expertise.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: We've talked about that again.
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: I feel like the more, the more of an expert you are, the less likely you are to veer from your specialty, because you fully understand that you don't know all that as much as the actual experts in those fields do.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a big point in when we were talking about social media grifters is Liam mentioned that asked them something that's outside of their field.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: If they start talking about it as if they know it, then Ask them about loan sharks, ask them about anything that's not their field.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: They're like oh yeah, no, I totally know this.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: You're like no, no, no, no, that's bullshit then, because you have no idea, you can't know everything, it comes back to like the cure all secure.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: I can know everything.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: You can't Thank you so much.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: I you know, if something cures, cleans to cure everything, it cures nothing.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: Okay, if it's just like, oh yeah, baldness and it also erectile dysfunction, like no, these things are different, okay, there's different medications for them, you can't just be like, yeah, it does everything and it cleans your kidneys, sure, whatever.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, that's.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, that is just.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: That is fascinating to me.
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: I and it's honestly, it's my it's, it's part of what makes a huge part of what makes social media so hard for me, because seeing that kind of stuff and then reading the comments and reading how many people are falling for it and that they're risking their child's health, safety and life as a result, it's just, it's so like it breaks me and I I go back and forth between, like just in, being infuriated and being so sad, and it's just and it must have been really worse when, like you know, you had like a baby formula shortage.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: So people are more desperate.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: If there's any like tainted supply in the formula, then they can go.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: Hey look, these people are trying to poison you.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: There was something.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: They had to recall it, you know.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: So you should just make yourself all the formula you need at home with pure maple syrup.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: And I don't gosh, I can't, I've just sticks from your yard, whatever.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: Boil it down.
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: That's exactly cinnamon in there Babies like cinnamon.
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: That's exactly what happened and then, unfortunately, it continued.
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: So people started doing that during the shortage and then, immediately after the shortage, there was actually a recall on formula and so everybody was like, see, see, you know, first we couldn't get it and now, look, they're just doing whatever they need to do to formula to get it out.
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: And this is why I'm going to continue to do all that homemade stuff that I was doing before.
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: And nobody wants to understand that if your kid makes it through that without any issues that you can actually see at the time, because some of the issues are longer term when you're making homemade formula, but they think that just because their kid is okay, that that must be safe.
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: So the survivor's bias kicks in and so they believe it's okay for their kid and then they've recommended to others and then everybody falls through it.
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: You know it's really cool.
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: Something that you guys should try to do just because I have found it so fascinating when I'm speaking about child safety is to speak specifically to parents and other people in general who have been down that road, who were the very crunchy parent who did the ambrotating necklaces, that did the anti-vaccine thing, that did the home remedies instead of taking medication, antibiotics and all of those things, but then unfortunately had a significant injury or death of their child as a result.
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: And now we're really understanding it.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: And there's quite a few that I work very closely with, specifically on TikTok, but other platforms as well, and it's so interesting to talk to them because, like they have said to me, you know I'm an intelligent person but I got sucked in by the emotional part of it and the you know, like it's just, it's so fascinating psychologically how that can happen.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: It's like cults.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: Like you know, there's lots of smart people that get caught up in cults.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: It's not because they're dumb, but there's something about the cult that just connected with them.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: And I'd just like to say, anybody listening, if you have a story like that and you want to come on here and talk about it, just send us an email at inmoderation, at roblapphamcom or Dr Hess.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: If you happen to have anybody that would like to come on, feel free to have them.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: And I'll probably ask them because there's there's quite a few and I just wish more people would talk to them because it's it just gives a window into the whole situation that I think, even like you and I would not understand because we've not been in it.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: And now that they're on the outside and they're looking at it and saying like, oh my gosh, like what was I thinking?
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: I can't believe I got tricked into that.
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: They just got so far down the rabbit hole.
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: And then the algorithm gives them exactly what they need.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: And then they join the Facebook groups that only are about that.
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: And then, all of a sudden, your entire world.
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: It seems like everybody believes what you believe and everybody else is wrong.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: It's just such a fascinating.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: You end up in an echo chamber.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: I feel like once you're in this like echo chamber, and then also you kind of just have this sunk cost fallacy.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: You know the sunk cost fallacy.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: You're just like, oh, I'm already in it, like I've already done so much, I can't just turn the whole ship around now.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: I have to just keep going and to plow through till I'm at the other side and boy, that's yeah.
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: So you know, and another flip on the same, the opposite side, when they do finally come out, what happens almost universally is that when these people finally realized usually because of a, like I said, a death or an injury to a child all of a sudden all those people who supported them that entire time, who encouraged it, who recommended all of those things they will immediately flip, immediately flip and say you didn't do it right, you didn't follow the rules, you didn't, you did something wrong.
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: It wasn't that.
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: Everything we believe is wrong, it's, you did something wrong.
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: And so when you talk to these people, they'll be like oh my gosh, like the first thing I thought when my child died from such and such was to go back to my support system that I've had all those years that have been recommending this, whose kids have been thriving doing what I've been doing with my kid.
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: Go back to them and ask for support, thinking that they're going to get support, and instead they get attacked, they get thrown out of their Facebook groups because now they're challenging that belief.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: It's just victim blaming.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: No way, there's no way those people would stoop that low.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: That's crazy.
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really, it's really sadly fascinating.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: Why.
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: But I find cults kind of fascinating too.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: So oh, cults are.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: No, everybody finds cults fascinating.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: Like you got to, I've been, I've been learning that, like the people that make our tea and whatnot, like you know, sleepy time and whatnot, or the celestial or whatever it is, they're a cult.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: Like there's so many cults just around, they're everywhere.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: What is going on the New York Times?
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: Like that's a cult, like everything's a cult.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: What's going on Anyway?
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't mean to say that brings to mind the cult of Bobby and what you know.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: The thing I'd like to talk about is we always see these influencers who are pushing the idea that, you know, sugars are bad, foods are bad, all these things are bad onto these little children, Like we've seen the famous.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Bobby, one where he takes Rose Rosie shopping, and so we're not gonna be holding a bit of Plug U.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: We're gonna see the Minister of Food.
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: We're not gonna be holding a bit of.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Plug U we're not gonna be holding a bit of Plug U.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: He shows her the veggie straws I believe it was and she's like she's actively shaming some other kid and it just it seems like such a great way to give a kid an eating disorder for their life.
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: And the numbers of kids that we're seeing with eating disorders has risen so rapidly.
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: And not only are the numbers getting much higher, but the ages are getting impressively younger and younger, like it's terrifying, as we're starting to see, like even five, six, seven year old kids who are, you know, worrying about being too fat or too this or too that, or I can't eat this and all of these rules, and it's just so crazy to me that people are willing to risk that because it's already dangerous enough in a fully grown mature adult.
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: But when a child is still growing and the needs that they have are so different than a fully grown adult, the damage that can occur, not only physically but obviously especially psychologically, is so huge and life long that I just don't see how anybody can encourage that.
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: And when he brings that beautiful little girl out and it's only been a handful that I've seen personally but every single one of them, even if it's as simple as reading out the ingredient list and having specific things to say, even something that simple, is changing her thought process about food, about how to eat, and that's going to carry over in a lot of different ways and he's got no control over how that's going to manifest in her.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: I think it's just another layer of sadness as well, because a lot of these it's coming from a good place, right, Like a lot of them are, at least I'll say is parents who are concerned.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: They're concerned for their child because they see the rates of heart disease and all these things.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: And that's what I always get Whenever I say okay, we understand it's an issue, but we need to take care of our children.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: The people I get attacked saying I'm sure you as well like a heart disease kills this many people, this many people are obese, all these things, and you just don't care about them.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: And it's just sad because I know a lot of these parents do care and they want what's best for their children, right, but you go too far anyway.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: So I'm kind of curious what you would tell a parent who's a little worried.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: Maybe their kids weighs a little bit more than they quote, unquote, should, or whatever.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: What would you tell them to maybe just keep their mind at ease a little bit?
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: So I first and foremost always tell them to never shame any kind of food, that, yes, obesity and lack of exercise and movement are all, and maybe even overeating, all of those things are very real, right, like we know that they're happening.
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: And so when a parent comes and this is concerned about that, I validate that, yes, those things are happening, they are true, but we need to walk a fine line here and making sure that we're caring for the child both physically and psychologically, without going in the opposite direction and causing more issues long term that they might have with their thoughts and feelings about food, their struggles that they may have as a result.
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: And so we will first kind of talk about everything in moderation, which is essentially what you guys have I never heard of it.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: What's that?
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: And I even give examples, like when I'm talking to a parent about this.
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: I give examples about what I do Like.
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: So, for example, when I'm making my daughter's lunch, I do make her a healthy lunch.
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: I try to make sure that she's got a little bit of all of the things that she actually needs.
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: But she gets some candy in every single lunch Not a ton, but she'll get a little bit of candy in every single lunch.
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: This morning she actually woke up and we woke up late.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: You know we're on vacation now and we woke up late and we have some leftover tiny little they're like this big little square cheesecake bites that are in the fridge.
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: And she had a breakfast and she's like can I have one?
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: Absolutely have one.
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: And then we'll have breakfast, not a big deal.
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: But because of that she now like she knows like I'm not forbidden to have this stuff.
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: I can have it, but I also need to make sure that I'm eating my vegetables and my fruits and getting my protein and all of this stuff, and so it takes away the forbidden fruit type of feeling about it.
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: And then, of course, increased exercise, increased movement and all of that.
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: So that's how I try to approach it with patients, so validating it, first and foremost because I do know that they're coming from a place where they're trying to do their best for their kid, but then also trying to make sure that we walk that line, which is not easy for a parent, and you said in their lack of exercise.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: And then you went on to say you know, increase exercise.
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: That's one thing I noticed these influencers never ever talk about is increasing exercise and the importance of exercise.
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: Not, and it's not even just for the immediate, the immediate effects of it of reducing the chance of obesity, decreasing weight at the time, but it's making them fit and strong in general and then also giving them, helping them to have a positive attitude about exercise.
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: Because if kids aren't up and about and then all of a sudden they're a teen and you're trying to get them to exercise, it's going to be something they hate.
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: But if you start young and it's kind of the thing that we do together as a family, we go like my daughter comes to the gym with me.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: We go to the gym, we do it together.
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: It's something that we do and we talk about how it's to make our body strong.
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: Like, my daughter is a horseback rider.
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: She competes.
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: You want to be a better rider.
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: Your body needs to be strong, you need to eat the right foods and you need to exercise.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: And you're turning it into a positive experience.
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: Yes, you can have the cake and yes, we can have dessert when we go out to dinner.
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: Of course we can have that.
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: You know, the pretzels or potato chips that are in the pantry if you want them.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: But we need to make sure we're doing all of those things, especially so that those other things are not a big deal.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: Right, it's the strict rules.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: I think that get a lot of people.
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: You just say you know these parents are like you, watch all these videos, you can have this at this time.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: That at that.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: You can't have this, only this with that as a child, my God, I would go crazy.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: The thing is just like with so many kids like you.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: They're just different.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: They're going through these growth spurts.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: I was the chubbiest baby.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: You look at me and you're like that baby is going that's my 600 pound like baby right there, that's going to be a thousand pound adult.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: And then you know I was like a chubby kid and then I was like the string bean teenager.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: Like you know, everybody made fun of me for that.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: So it's just like no matter where you go.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: And so to make all these rules when they're a kid man, that's just so rough.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: I always hate seeing it.
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: It's something I always say is you can't have health in a negative environment.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: You got to turn it into a positive experience.
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, have you guys heard of or seen any of the videos about almond moms?
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: Not too many, no.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: The good things.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: So I mean, I've seen videos where they talk about like I'm an almond mom and I'm going to make sure my kids are healthy and make sure they don't get diseased.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: I was like what?
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: So it's they're just very, very strict about exactly what they can have and it's just and they're very body, overly body conscious Like it's not oh, it's not about the nutrition.
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: So I think there's different kinds of parents who are trying to better the nutrition in their kids, right?
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: Some it really is, because they just think what they're doing is nutritionally better.
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: Others it's because they want their kids to look a certain way, and a lot of times it's because of their own feelings for themselves, right?
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: So they want their child to be thin and projecting their own self image on the kid.
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: And so there is.
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: I don't remember her exact handle, but her name is Rachel.
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: She's on TikTok and she has struggled with eating disorders her whole life and she does a lot of talking about being the child of an almond mom.
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: And it's fascinating because she talks through like some of the stories of what happened when she was a kid about you know how she felt when she went to friends houses and they were eating normally and she was just like Whoa, what's happening here?
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: Like what?
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: Like she's noticing that there's two completely different worlds around how kids are allowed to eat.
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: She talks about conversations that she had with her mother and how it affected her psychologically and resulted in eating disorders.
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: Like she's a great person to go and listen and learn from.
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: It's fascinating.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: I get that a lot whenever I make a video that you know talks about children and eating disorders, of that sort of thing where a lot of people in the comments will say, like it started when I was younger because my mom said this or my, you know, parents were worried about that, that sort of thing.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I don't I guess I mean I would love to be able to talk on this podcast just a little bit like some things you would just recommend for parents, you know like kind of the well, there's no good food or bad food, that sort of thing.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: You know like what would you tell parents just to, you know, help their kids not freak out about food so much and not end up in that situation.
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: And I want to preface this for everybody, because I did just say that I feel strongly of not speaking- out of scope right, right, right.
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: So this is really just how I approach it kind of with my kid and how I talk to other patients about, like parents of patients.
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: But I will say that I treasure the advice and education from nutritionists, dietitians, anybody in that field because without a doubt, they know a thousand times more than I do.
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: I kind of not only want to learn from them and try and get other parents to learn from those experts, which goes back to what I had said about making sure that I one of the things that I tell new parents is making sure you're getting your education from the best possible source and the correct source.
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: So I will guide them to the right people if this is a significant issue and they need to learn something that I am not able to.
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: But I will give just little tips in general, and a lot of those tips I did learn from people like you guys and other people who talk about child nutrition and the diet culture around kids.
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: So, but I really just what I said with my own daughter I just think that taking the emphasis off food for the kid is what is the most important, because, even though I personally feel that no matter how you try to approach food with a child, when food becomes an actual topic of discussion and a thing that is I don't know how to, how to word it, but like a thing that's a discussion every time you eat, every time you have food we have to talk about.
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: Talk about why we're eating this, why we're eating that, like, should you occasionally throw some education in there with your kid?
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, but should it be a thing that you talk about constantly?
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: No, it's something they should have to worry about, like, like they shouldn't have to worry about food.
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: Yes, but then, and if you talk about it constantly, the kid automatically thinks like this is something I'm supposed to think about all the time, and then they start thinking about it and sometimes it's hard to stop that roller coaster of thinking or snowball of thinking, and even in a kid they can start thinking well, is this one of the things that I'm supposed to worry about?
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: That I can't eat, like I just, and they don't necessarily have the capacity to understand that.
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: You know, like my daughter is a very, very new, newly turned teen and we are now starting to talk about the details of nutrition, a lot of stuff that I'm learning from you guys and we do talk about the details of that.
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: But she's starting to get to be an age where she can kind of understand that.
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: And you know they're talking about nutrition stuff in school as well.
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: But when you start really young, where they're not even able to comprehend why do you even need protein, what's the difference between sugars and like they can't even get that, but yet you're talking about it all the time, they worry about something that they don't understand and they don't even know why they need to worry about it.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: I gotta say, like the worst part about it too is a lot of times I'm gonna be honest, like from at least what I've seen the parents don't understand it either.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: They're just like oh, it's bad.
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: Why is it bad?
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: Because inflammation, this is inflammatory and so it's bad.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: Like you know, like the classic Bobby thing with his daughter.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: Like no, that's inflammatory, like that's like the worst thing you could ever do.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: Like do okay, here's what you do.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: You do the opposite of what Bobby does.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: That's how you you have a well rounded individual and everything.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: You just you do the exact opposite.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: Because, my goodness, that is.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: It's just rough to see.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: It makes me think of Courtney real for the.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: She has a video where.
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, she's very much an almond mom.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: And she had the recent video where she was like wait to be a mother, because this would be me.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: And so there's a clip of this woman talking about how you can't have this because it's in jet fuel and it's like, okay, you know what else is in jet fuel Water, yeah it's.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: It's used in this one thing, so it can't be.
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: Baking soda is used in fire extinguisher, so I guess we shouldn't bake with it.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: It's poison, like I just I feel so, I feel so bad.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: It's got to be tough.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: So if you're out there just and you have kids, like I with my daughter, I'm just gonna because again we don't want to be outside our scope of practice here but like I'm going to do my best to not punish her with food and just have these like strong motion, just enjoy it Like it's, it's a part of life, like why have you guys seen the, the one guy who reads off Reddit and he read about yeah, yeah you know dusty.
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I know him too.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: I follow.
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah For the, for our listeners and viewers.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: This guy was reading a one of those Reddit posts and it was a woman who was talking about how their child.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: They forced them to go to their room and do an hours worth of exercise and they didn't get to eat if they didn't, and they didn't get bones taken away or whatever.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: And they started finding out that their child was like sneaking food.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: What one of their child was sneaking food?
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: One of their child was throwing food up.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, all of these different things.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: And the crazy thing was there, like I think we may have caused an eating disorder.
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: Like if you had told me, liam, come up with something that would cause an eating disorder, I wouldn't come up with something half as quote, unquote, good as that.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: Like that is just, it's the craziest story.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I like and it's just tough.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: I understand everybody listening out there like you're concerned.
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: You want what's healthy for your child.
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: Of course I want my child to be healthy, cause I sure what I say, those things people like, oh, you don't want your kid to be healthy.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: Shut up.
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: I understand that I I'm going to try and introduce them to all the foods that I eat and balanced diet and all that, but my, it's not worth it.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: Was it like eating disorders have like the highest rate of the highest mortality rate of any mental health disorder, including depression?
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: So the problem is, I think when people say you don't want your kid to be healthy and use them, they're only fixating on physical health, which number one.
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: Letting them have stuff that's not necessarily quote unquote healthy isn't going to like damage them for life.
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: That's the first thing, but secondly, psychological and emotional health is just as important, sometimes even more so, than physical health.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: And I think people just don't-.
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, these influencers keep forgetting that mental health is so important.
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: It's, have you guys?
• 41:24
  Speaker 3: Have you guys seen this is more in kind of the child's safety realm.
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: So you might not have seen it, but the case on Anne Frank and eight passengers.
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: So this family that was originally huge on YouTube had a whole bunch of kids.
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: Okay, and so one of the things that she used to abuse these kids was food, and she actually publicly put out videos where she bragged about the fact that she would not allow the kids to eat until they did their chores breakfast.
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: So she would not allow her kids to eat breakfast until they finished all their chores, and if they didn't finish them to their satisfaction, they didn't eat breakfast.
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: And she routinely on these videos, would tell these kids that food is a privilege, not a right.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: Oh it got worse, Like they would.
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: She would tell her kids like she would try and make sure, like she would send her kids to school with no food and then try and make sure no one gave them food, Like no, you're not allowed to get food from anyone else, and she would go out of her way to try and make sure their child didn't get food.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: And it was on for a long time, Like I don't know exactly how long, but too long.
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: I mean a day is too long, but it was like way too long to the point where, like, did she eventually found out?
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: They found out of her because her kids escaped, essentially and went to the neighbors and were like hey, we're hungry, we can use some food.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: And then just like tugged at your heartstrings, it was horrible.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: And so now she's in a bunch of legal and she's like oh, the father knew nothing.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: I'm like how do no, no, no, no, no, no, no no, no, no.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: The father's like oh yeah, I just what.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: They're always hungry, they're like carnivore.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: Mg didn't know nothing about liver king.
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: What do you mean?
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, kids are always hungry, they don't get food.
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: Isn't that how all children are?
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: There's no way you're that like that level of complicity is in.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: That's next level, insane, Holy shit.
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: So yeah, she's in a lot of trouble, Like those.
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: These are extreme cases but like, a lot of these things happen like every day to just a lesser extent.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: You know, get punished with food.
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: You're not getting this or that, or oh, just take, or you have to sit at the table until you finish your plate.
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: That's it.
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: Finish your plate.
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: That's bad food.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: This is good food.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: Finish your plate.
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: You can't have this unless you do that Like take the pressure off your kid.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: My God it's.
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: Being a kid is already tough enough.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: The finish your plate thing has greatly affected my life, cause now when I go to somebody's house to eat, like, I look at my plate and I'm like, okay, I only want to put on just enough food that I know I'm going to be able to finish the plate, because I can't have an unfinished plate.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: A lot of people are like that.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: They that goes with them to into their, into adulthood, and so, oh yeah, please just try and take some pressure off it's, it's oh we always talk about.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: Like Rob and I we were always talking about like.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: You know, we talked about like what you can add, and like, not subtract.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: So I think it's like the same, you know, with kids.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: You just try and introduce them Like and if they are say, hey, no, I don't like this, you don't have to force them to eat it.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: But you know you, over time, you know, try and introduce more things and you eat those things.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: They see you eating those things, they're interested in those things, like that's better than trying to force them into anything.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: Oh, I just feel so bad.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: I'm repeating it that you can't have health in a negative environment.
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: It's got to be a positive environment.
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: The problem is the whole.
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: Like, liam, what you were just saying.
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: I think a lot of people think that's too much work, right, like they think having juice but like, so, for example, from day one, I love avocados and they're a great food, and from day one I kept, you know, trying to get my daughter you want to taste it?
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: You want to taste it?
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: No, I don't like it.
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: Every once in a while she'd taste it, no.
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: every once in a while she'd be like, no, I don't like it.
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: And even though she tasted a couple of times and said, no, I don't like it, that you know, one day there was a way that I made it a little bit different and I was like, do you want to just try one more time?
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: And she's like, oh, now she eats straight mashed avocado.
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: Exactly, you know like, but that was years worth of her like, really, and she probably maybe she didn't like it then, and who cares?
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: But you offer and if they don't want it, you don't force it, because then for sure she wouldn't be eating it now because then she'd have a negative association with that food and she, you know, you forced it on me.
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: I didn't like it.
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: She's never going to want to try it again.
• 45:46
  Speaker 3: You don't want to try it, okay, but you know it's good to try every once in a while.
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: And now she loves it.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: Yep, yeah, love it.
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: So it's sad, it breaks my heart for kids.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: We're all just stunned here, people.
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: Okay, we're all just here, like oh wait.
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: Like I literally get people like telling me, like you know, talking, you know, like the other day on like Facebook somebody said something about me.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: I literally go into their profile.
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: Their first thing that I see is carnivore MD Paul Saladino complaining about chicken nuggets and he's like please stop killing your children is the title he put on.
• 46:20
  Speaker 2: And I'm just like you, I'm sorry.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: Okay, listen, I'm glad you don't like me.
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: If someone who thinks chicken nuggets are killing children and is sharing dangerous information doesn't like me, I feel like I'm doing pretty damn good, all right.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: That's another thing with social media is making the parents feel bad.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: Oh, the choices that they make.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, that's a way to make the kids healthy.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: Let's shame the parents and the children, you know.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: Let's shame everyone.
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: Why not just have everyone feel horrible?
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: What could go wrong?
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: Oh, true.
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: It's so true and it's so frustrating to watch.
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: You see it.
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: And I mean I've seen it out more like out with people or something, and somebody you know refuses to let their kid have something, and the kid you can see it in their face and I just it's so hard to not just be like it's not.
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: We're at a party, there are cupcakes, it's a birthday party.
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: Let the kid have a cupcake.
• 47:19
  Speaker 3: Why is it going to be the only one standing there without a cupcake?
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: This is going to be a memory that he will have forever.
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: Every time he sees a cupcake he's going to remember that he wasn't allowed to have this cupcake.
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: And then where he takes that is beyond the parents control, but yet they're trying to have control.
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: That's exactly what happened in that Reddit story.
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, one of the one of the examples was the kids would go to other kids' birthday parties, but they were not allowed to eat any of the stuff.
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: They were not allowed to have pizza.
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: No Halloween, nothing.
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: You're not allowed to have candy at Halloween.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: You're not allowed to, and this comes back a lot to like.
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: What we encounter a lot is that these foods are poison.
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: These foods are toxic.
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: They're killing everyone.
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: This is why everyone is dying and all the world is evil.
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: It's because of these specific foods.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: Right, the anti-Christ, they're everything.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: So when you, when, when, when, when you, when you come after these foods so much, they're like parents have no, they're nowhere to go.
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: They're just like oh, I've learned that sugar is the most toxic substance ever.
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: Like I'll give my kids heroin before I give them sugar, because it literally kills them from the inside out.
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: Of course, of course, they're going to try and protect their children from it.
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: So, even without realizing it, they're like I'm trying to help my child by not giving them this horrible toxic substance.
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: That, yes, is it.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: Is it our body's primary energy source?
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: Sure, it is, but it's also the worst thing that's ever happened in the history of the universe.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: So I can't let them have this and so like it's so frustrating because it all trickles down.
• 48:53
  Speaker 2: It all trickles down to these people going around the grocery store like this is toxic, that's bad.
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: And then it goes down to these these people and these people teach it to their children and it's just this perpetual cycle that will never end.
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: And I just it's.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: It's tough for us to watch, Like literally.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: I've told my followers now can you please start tagging me in animal videos of just like puppies and kittens, Cause I'm so tired of every video I open.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: It's just like this is killing you.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: That's killing you.
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: Literally everything, water, Nope Water.
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: That's horrible, You're going to die.
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: Then finally I open one and it's just like a little kitten or like a puppy playing with a kitten.
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: I'm like I needed this so badly.
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: So, yes, everyone tagged me in like funny animal videos.
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: I appreciate it.
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: It is very frustrating, very frustrating.
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: Do you know that?
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: Another thing that you guys should look at, cause I think it's super interesting there was a way, way, way back when a study done, where they took kindergartners and in the kindergarten, in their classrooms they created a snack and candy table and one of the rooms had free access to the candy table as they pleased, and one only had very specific sure I don't remember the exact details, but very specific short times that they were allowed to access the candy, with lots of rules around how much they could take and all that kind of stuff, and then they watched them over time.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: Let me guess.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: Wait, let me guess.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: Okay, so everything.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: So at the parent, the ones that restricted.
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: They were totally healthy.
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: They never got heart disease or cancer because they didn't eat the toxic poison chemicals that were in the, the, the the most important thing.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: And then they went on to invent mother water.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: And they went on to solve the world problems, and then the kids that had open access to this toxic poison.
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: They all died within a year.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: That's my guess, judging by what I've seen, by what I'm tagged in.
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: That may have well happened but it was slightly shorter terms.
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: But overall what they found was that the kids who were restricted, when they did have their open children they were.
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: They were just like once they had open time that was not guided by how much they could have, they were just eating, eating, eating, eating, trying to eat as much of it as they could because they never got a chance to have it, whereas the kindergarten room that had access to it all the time actually very rarely even went up.
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: Every once in a while they go up, they grab one, sit back down, do their stuff, because they knew that they could have it when they wanted, because it wasn't a bad thing.
• 51:22
  Speaker 3: It wasn't a bad thing.
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: So just more proof of how it's that scarcity mentality.
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: You know, when you just have something, you think it's going to be gone.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: You you're like I need to go.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: It's like okay, guys, it's like it's you know what it's like.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: Do you know what it's like?
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: Toilet paper at the start of COVID.
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: It's like toilet paper at the start of COVID.
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: That's not where I was going, but that is.
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: It is that, but no, what it's like.
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: Is that?
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: It's like, it's like, it's like, it's like it's like, it's like it's like it's like, it's like, it's like that is.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: It is that, but no, what it's like is the homage the homage.
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: They get nothing ever.
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: All they do is raise barns and, I'm assuming, milk chickens.
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: I don't know what they're doing over there, it's very strange but then milk chickens, they milk their chickens.
• 52:06
  Speaker 2: That's where they get all their milk, and then they, and then they're one.
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: They're, I don't know, 13, 14, whatever.
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: They're old.
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: They have a time where they go into like regular society.
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: I don't know what it's called name for it, but basically before, yeah, yeah as a name for it.
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: But yeah, they go into a regular society and they lose their mind, like I would too.
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: Like they do every drug, they have sex with everyone, like they do all the things and it's just like take and that's obviously like an extreme example, but like you'd start introducing little bits of that to your children.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: Like I can.
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: I can only see one way.
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: I can only see one way this goes and it's not.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: It's not a good way.
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: It's a bad the Mormons too, actually.
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: Mormons, I'm sure, yeah, and then they go off to college, specifically BYU, which is a Mormon college, interestingly, and if you see what happens there which actually obviously is not supposed to happen since the Mormon college but it's the first time that they're away, Right?
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: But it's also college, so it's going and so and everything there's.
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: It's a very restrictive religion, so kind of less so than Amish, but very restrictive, and then all of a sudden, similar things.
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: They're just going out and doing it all.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: So yeah, basically what our our full message of in moderation is don't be Amish, don't be Mormon.
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: Buy all the toilet paper you ever can, just in case.
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: That's.
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: that's basically what we're trying to do and don't put pineapple on pizza and only ever buy crunchy peanut butter.
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: Uh-oh, uh-oh.
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: We have a pineapple on pizza.
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: We finally have a pineapple.
• 53:42
  Speaker 3: I like pineapple on pizza Last episode we finally had a smoothie for peanut butter Now we've got a pineapple.
• 53:48
  Speaker 3: I mean, but it's, but that's what makes it great.
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: You put salt on the pizza, so you got a little sweet, a little salt.
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: It's it's not a little sweet it's like pineapple.
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: It's like the sweetest thing ever.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: It's so good.
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, I guess I like barbecue, like I'll eat a barbecue chicken pizza, like I'll eat like a barbecue pizzas, and that is like a little sweet.
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: But pineapple is just that.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: That step.
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: You might as well throw, like you know, oysters on there or some weird shit, like I don't know.
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: No, pineapple and pizza is a definite go, a definite go.
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: Well, I think this interview is over.
• 54:23
  Speaker 3: now we're not allowed to talk to you anymore.
• 54:25
  Speaker 3: You do the pineapple thing, rob, so we're not releasing this one, right we're just throwing this one out.
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: This is over.
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: I'm deleting this as soon as we're done In 14 episodes, you're going to say I'm the only one at any time, you are the only one in 14 episodes.
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: Well, we didn't have a guest every one of those times, but also yes but also, yes, we never had someone that said pineapple on pizza.
• 54:44
  Speaker 3: Oh, my God, that's it.
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: I'm going to start asking, but listen now all of our listeners, the 12 of them that, like pineapple on pizza, they feel all 12 feel super validated right now Listen my pineapple people.
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: you are my people and don't listen to them.
• 54:59
  Speaker 3: It's fabulous.
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: Listen, you dozen great, wonderful people.
• 55:07
  Speaker 1: Oh well, where can your pineapple people find you?
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: Pineapple people mainly on TikTok at Dr Free Hess.
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: I do actually have a website and a podcast and Facebook page and private child safety evidence based child safety Facebook group on.
• 55:28
  Speaker 3: All of that is on Facebook but the website and the podcast all go by PD mom, p E D I M O M dot com.
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: So PD attrition and mom.
• 55:37
  Speaker 3: So I have all of those things and every other one, every other social media.
• 55:44
  Speaker 3: If you put in either my name or PD mom, it'll come up.
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: Well, unfortunately, since we're not releasing this episode, no one will hear that.
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: But if they did 12 more followers after this, pineapple, pineapple.